One more time - and breathe!

Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there if you want, or you can email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. That's all the boring stuff out of the way, so let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast with me, VG. Joining me as always, full crew this week, is James, Jamie and Harley. Good evening, gentlemen. Good evening. How are we? It's the last week of the full season for us on pod, so it feels quite nice in a weird way. Like, it's been a long old season. It's been a really, really long season, hasn't it? I said they play like they were running camp for 51 days. In fact, you must have been half a week then. You and I are the only ones. We did our first, like the first warm-up game was the first week of August. Yeah, I think it was. If not last week of July. No, I can assure you, we definitely didn't record last week of July. That much I know. That was definitely not around the last week of July. So, yeah, it's been a long old time. So, for the last time this season then, gentlemen, let us start with some drink of the week. James, you can kick us off in style. Something nice and strong to finish the season. Something delicate, something interesting. What have you got for us? Well, I'm finishing off a nice iced coffee. And I'm on the tea because I'm off the booze for a bit. Going into pre-season, back in the gym. Sort of as work is winding up. So, I'm trying to be off the booze for a bit. Well, within reason. Definitely in the week. I've had a long weekend. I was on another residential school trip this weekend. In and out of sailing and kayaking. So, I'm too tired to drink right now. Okay, you're forgiven. Jamie, what have you got to finish the season off with me? So, have any of you seen Clarkson's Farm on Amazon? Yes. So, I haven't. I haven't seen a second of it. Why am I saying this? It's because the beer I've got is from that show, apparently. So, I've got Hoxton Pills. So, like I said, this has been on Clarkson's Farm, apparently. There's a lot of wanky bollocks on the side of the bottle. I'm not going to read it all. But it says, with flavours of grapefruit, pine and a bittersweet finish, our Pilsner is a light-bodied lager with real character. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then at the end it says, hard to make, easy to drink. And it is a very easy-drinking lager. It's quite nice, actually. So, yeah, that's my drink. Hoxton Pills, as featured on Clarkson's Farm, if you're a fan of the show. Did you say pine? Yes. As in, like, the furniture? As in, yeah. As in, like, the wardrobe? With flavours of grapefruit, pine and bittersweet finish, yeah. That's what it says, pine. Who goes round licking pine and going, this'll taste good in a beer? That's bizarre. All right, Harley, all yours, mate. Yeah, so this is the last from my Torycon stash of beers. So, this is called Devon Dumpling. So, yeah, it's called Strong Golden Nail. It looks a bit like that. So, lovely, lovely, nice, clear, no cloudy mess to it, certainly. The wanky box on the top is, a strong, smooth taste in premium beer with a balanced sweetness and fresh, hot character. Devonshire through and through. I almost ended up going Devonshire there, but, yeah, managed to reign it in. Yeah, nice, nice best bit of the finished seasonal. I will be doing, like, hang on, James is talking and hasn't realised I've already gone, mate. Do you know you're going to have that Tory beer festival? Are you going to finish early, like, you know, most of the Tories? Well, I was saying, it's a farm show, so we did leave quite early, but that's just because we have a small child and a wife who's scared of thunderstorms. Right, there's a diversion. Yeah, so I will be, like, clipping together all the best bits of Wanky Bollocks. We were going to do a best Wanky Bollocks nominations and awards and all that kind of stuff in the season, but in all honesty, it's been a long season and none of us can be arsed. So I'm just going to clip together all the funky bits through the season. So, mine, so I was delighted in my local supermarket on Saturday because they brought in all the summer ciders. I'd pretty much done all the beer that they had and they brought in the summer ciders. So I now got a good stash of summer ciders and no reason to drink in the midweek because there's no pod. So, the first one of my funky ones is a Cornish pineapple cider and it's called the Rattler. So, genuinely crafted with refreshing pineapple and crisp apples, offering a perfect blend of sweet and tangy flavours. Transport yourself to a tropical paradise with every sip. It's quite nice. It doesn't taste of pineapple. It tastes quite refreshing as a cider and I was allowed to put a couple of ice cubes in there tonight as well and very nearly gave myself frostbite before coming on the pod because I couldn't get the ice cubes out of the tray and they were stuck in too much and I was trying to push them up too much and then all my fingers started going numb. So I very nearly got frostbite in the middle of June but it's a very nice beer and yeah, cheers. Lovely. Okay. News desk then, Jay. What have we got for news desk? Yes, quite a bit of news. A lot of movement happening. A lot of signings. So, starting off just before we started recording Cardiff have finally announced their signing. I have to put up a really pointless poll asking this. Do they want a new signing or a re-signing? When it was pretty obvious everyone wanted a new signing. So, anyway, they have confirmed the signing of former England under-20 centre Rory Jennings from Newcastle Falcons. The inside centre joins Cardiff after spending a year in the north-east following the sad demise of London Irish. The Cardiff website says that he will provide strength and depth in the centre as well as cover at fly half. Sounds like Ben Thomas now, doesn't it? Harley, what do you think of that then? Yeah, I think it's probably Ben Thomas' back-up. I thought Beetham was that back-up there. So, yeah, we're actually looking quite stocked for this season with James, Ben Thomas, Beetham covering and then you've got Chidi and Cairns as the right-back tens. Yeah, I mean, it's an area we needed strengthening. I mean, it's not going to set the world on fire, but, I mean, let's be honest, that's the level of player. The fact that it's a top-level rugby player as opposed to second division like Kerry Capp or fourth division if you're a Wales coach. It's, you know, it's a bit of a thing. I text some slight comments about the signing to Hugh Griffin as we both do whenever Cardiff make a signing and he texts back saying this is nickname 4-story Rory. Oh, of course, yeah. One of us is about the same height. He's only a little bit shorter. We don't need two 4-story Rorys. Right, moving on then. Scarlett. So, on Monday, very interesting day yesterday for Scarlett's, wasn't it? So, on Monday they announced the signing as we all expected of Wales title prop Henry Thomas. A week after he was recalled to the Wales squad by Warren Gatland. 32-year-old has swapped cast for Parker Scarlett and he's going to join the West Iralians ahead of the new season. But then, later in the day, the Scarletts announced a back row at Teddy Leatherbarrow has left the region. So, the 24-year-old was signed from Loughborough University just a year ago and, to be fair, I think we can all agree it's been some very impressive performances during his 14 appearances in the season. It was only last month that Teddy Leatherbarrow won the Bastionless Breakthrough Player of the Year award from the Scarlett Supporters Club and he's leaving. And it's left a sour taste in a lot of Scarlett supporters' mouths. So, they were quite happy after the announcement, you know, of their prop Henry Thomas. And then, later in the day, bad news. It was good news, bad news day, wasn't it? Bad news. They announced this and it spoiled the piss of a lot of Scarlett supporters. There's been all kinds of rumours about why he's left. We can't confirm all tonight because it is rumours. But, Leo, I want to get your thoughts on that. What do you make of Teddy Leatherbarrow leaving the Scarletts after what was an impressive first season? Because this has gone down like a bucket of stick with a lot of Scarlett supporters, hasn't it? Yeah, and rightly so, too. I mean, what does the guy have to do to get a contract? You know? We've got a captain with the best will in the world, and we all love Josh McLeod, and when he's on form and when he's fit, he's great. But, you know, three games in two seasons or whatever it is, and then we've got a young kid coming through that shows a lot of potential. Shows, you know, to play at a seven and to play the kind of rugby he does at seven. You know, he's making an impact at seven, which is hard enough. You know, you look how competitive seven is in Wales. Oh, it just fucking pisses me off. It really does. I thought we were done with that. We made a big song and a dance in the middle of the season about how, you know, we've changed what we're going to do. We're going to develop from within. We've got some good players coming through, and so it was really well received. There was a meeting at the club, and everyone was like, yeah, okay. This is how it's going to be, and you can live with that. You can go, you know, we can live with maybe not being amazing for a couple of seasons if it's our plays, if it's our boys, if it's the boys from down the road that are being developed and being given a chance and coming through. And then, you know, all right, Leather Barrel came in from Loughborough, so we're not going to say he's, you know, an out-and-out Scarlets boy, but he came in and he was liked by the fans. He put his heart on every time he walked out, and it was great to see, and it was the kind of player that kind of fans grow to love really quickly. He's like Calum Foney, you know. You can't really call Calum Foney local, but Christ, if that boy walked down Sethley High Street, you know, he gets mobbed by fans because people loved him because he gave everything, and Leather Barrel was the same. He's also well-qualified. Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. But we brought in South Africans and some... I feel sorry for the guys. And current Scottish international, you know, for that cover in the Six Nations when he'll also be away. Yeah, but, you know, it just pisses me off that we don't get it. There's something inside. We spoke a lot at the start of the season about culture, and then I pissed myself off by talking about Scarlet's culture too much. And it just isn't right. It isn't there. We haven't got it. It's just not up here about this is how we... this is how you look after your fans. This is how you get them to go, hey, do you know what? You can make mistakes, but we'll love you because you're doing it for the right reason. It just really does piss me off. But welcome, Henry. You know, hey. It does ruin Morning James' game of trying to see how close to a full eight Scarlet's can feel. Developed no players. Shit. Your forward pack is dangerously... I think it's two players off a non-Welsh qualified pack. Yeah, it was last season. It was this season as well. It was one off this season, wasn't it? Yeah, I think at one point, I think when Elias got injured at one point, it was a huge flop that they went back to work, but they started with six. Yeah, I think we could genuinely put out a non-Welsh pack pretty much every week if we wanted to. And the fever... sorry to double-edge, but the fever Twitter chunk put up a thing last night of what's perceived to be your best pack, and that doesn't include Max Douglas, who... is that in our news desk as well? He was announced when we were on last week, were we? Something was around then. I can't remember. It's stark in that there's in what is perceived to be the best Scarlet's pack, there's no Welsh locks, no Welsh hooker. I'm not counting Elias. He did put Elias in as best hooker. Right. Okay, not hooker. There's no Welsh loose heads, no Welsh eights, no Welsh lock. It's just that I don't know how it's got to this point with Scarlet. It's because we had five years of fucking up the academy, and this year we turned round the academy, we've actually got some decent boys. We've got three two props. Yeah, Mawrth and Richard. Yeah, coming through the academy. We've had a couple of decent hookers come through the academy. We've got one decent second row. If I was that second row coming through the academy, I'd be like fucking out. Everybody just wants to... You're not allowed anywhere. Don't let him pass his driving test. Don't let him go anywhere else. Just fucking lock him down. Nail his shoes to the floor. It's going to take time for it to come through. As I said, we've fucked up the academy for God knows how long, and it's costing us, and we're having to go out and bring in players that we should have been developing. We should have been looking after our own. We should have been getting the players that we had here and available and going, we're going to look after you, and don't worry. We've gone, ah yeah, you're not up to it. Fuck off, son. Then they go somewhere else and start playing decent rugby, and we go, ah well, he obviously had a good start at the Scarlets. No. He had a good start at the Scarlets. Keep them at the fucking Scarlets. You know what you were saying about people boiling piss? Yeah. I think just to add though, I think Envy Thomas is a good sign in. He is a scrumager. He doesn't offer much in the loose, but he should stabilise the scrum. My only thing is though, he's a Welsh international, so he's going to be part of Wales. You're not going to see him. How much of Scarlets is going to go to him? I think Welsh readers need to be very careful now with the reduced budgets about signing Welsh internationals, especially when they are part of Wales. I don't think that's a good business. Just to jump on your point there, Jamie, especially when you consider who's your second choice? Harry O'Connor. Harry O'Connor. It's a bit like the issue we had for years when you had both Ken and Elias in at Hooker. You have both Sclyarth, both Flyarth for this six nations. Piv Axton in the past, we picked the first, all three Ospreys loose heads at one point. I do think the regions maybe need to push back on no, you can't take too many people from the same position. It's OK once it's discarded from the hot seat losing nine players, isn't it? We have to push back on it now. We just need to stop. I've said this all along that there's two Ospreys a man. Sclyarth's just like Martin Williams' player of the tournament. Sclyarth's need to stop signing people who were already in that position. Plumtree, it was pretty obvious why Plumtree came over. Henry Thomas. There was somebody else as well, wasn't there? Johnny Williams signed because it was going to be, and then gets injured and you're like, fuck, you know. So, I am still expecting Johnny Williams to leave. I also just don't get it from the... Henry Thomas is the first proper forward, like a scrummaging forward you designed. Because Max Douglas, yeah, he's great and he looks great on paper in terms of height, weight, he's dynamic, but he's not what you need in that sense. You were apparently very much in for Jack Dunn, right, and it seems like it became either or situation. You went with Douglas, is what it seems, and it's just like, why? Jack Dunn would have been perfect for you, and yet it's great that you've kept all the credit, don't get me wrong, but you need that big, massive tight headlock who's just going to be like Steve Cummins who's gone to the Dragons, right, I think it's a fantastic saying and I've remembered it to this day. Big, tight headlock who's going to sit behind Henry Thomas and he's just going to push, and he's going to hit Rucks and he's going to do nothing else. But now you're going to have another forward who carries the ball in one hand, he's probably got his head wrapped up like that, looks like an idiot. But that is the type of game we play, that is the type of game where I think 80% of our tries this year came from turnovers or something stupid like that. Or Gareth Dain just remembering he's an international class come half. But that's what I mean, it's a style of play that we haven't, it's very difficult to find scrummaging props who can also pass a fucking ball or catch a ball, some of them. So, like I say, decent level prop who can, anyway. James, go on otherwise my piss is probably going to boil. Okay. Scott Baldwin, he's left his role as defence coach at Newcastle Falcons to become the new head coach at Bridgend Ravens. That's good news, it's good to see Scott Baldwin back in rush rugby, so best of luck to him in that new role. Chris Hollis has left the Dragons and he's returned home to South Africa to compete in his short-term deal. I am a little bit surprised by this, I thought we were going to sign him permanently, I thought he showed enough flashes against Ospreys Wallace to warrant a permanent deal and Dave Flanagan spoke highly of him, said that he offered us something different, so I was a bit surprised to see him go back to Africa. I'm not sure why that is, I don't know if it's a budget reason or whether he didn't quite do enough to convince the Dragons to sign him permanently. I'm leaning more towards the budget, to be honest, but yeah, it's a bit of a shame, I like the look of him and he'll be fine for club soon. And then, another departure, Ospreys scrum half, Cam Jones, he's joined Cornish Pirates next season, 23-year-old came from the Ospreys regional pathway and he had spells with Edinburgh and Glasgow before returning to the Ospreys at the start of the season. He made six appearances off the bench, or what Toby Booth said across the campaign. And then finally, another departure, the Highlanders have confirmed the Wales fly-off, Rhys Patchell has left the Super Rugby franchise after a season in New Zealand, so the 31-year-old joined last year on a one-year deal after leaving the Scarlets. Now, there's no news on Patchell's next club, as of yet, but Wales Online are reporting that a move to Japan is an option. So, yeah, it'll be pretty interesting to see where Rhys ends up. I'd love him to come to the Dragons, but in this same report, Wales Online are saying that Dragons are looking at a fly-off in the Gallic Apprenticeship, which is interesting, so yeah, that's the news. That's all the news I have for this week. Brett Conan. Looking at one could mean just going and sitting in the stands. You know, we can all go, can you genuinely see Dragons being in a position to pull someone from the premiership, Jay? Is it going to be Baby Lloyd? Is it Ewan Lloyd's little brother who's still playing for Bristol as a flyer? No, he's at Newport. He's at Newport. He's been at Newport for the past year. He's been at Newport, mate. He's got a party. He's been at Newport. Was there Osprey's news? No, there isn't. None that I can say, anyway. Cardiff have managed to announce their pre-season friendlies in the most Cardiff way possible in Seth Davis' disciplinary announcement. That was quite interesting, actually. That was quite... They'd only said they would be pre-season friendlies. They didn't actually announce them. It wasn't... These are the games he's going to miss. Yeah, you're playing the Ospreys and Bars, aren't you? Trailfinders. The other half of the Osprey. To be fair, we've got a whole season without any real credible merger conversations. Let's not let that get in the way of a good rumour. Let's start a few over, Sam. It'll be quite good to be at the lead of that. Can I very quickly talk about the poll I ran on Twitter? Go on, then. I ran a poll yesterday on the Ospreys IRA account. It did quite well, actually. It was quite a big, far-reaching poll. I said, how... Four Welsh teams all announced signings during the 2024-25 season. Obviously, the caveat being recruitment isn't seemingly finished for all four teams. But which team has the strongest squad entering next year's URC? So, 9% voted the Dragons. We say it every year. The Dragons are on paper to have a very good squad, or a squad that should be better than it is. 11% said the Scarlets. I assume that was Hugh of all 12 of his accounts. 23% said Cardiff. And for me, Cardiff... I think Cardiff's got a very, very good squad. I do. You can't scourge me. You keep telling me this every week. I mean, you can't. Even when we're not winning, you're saying I'll scourge you. A week after is the first you've won in. I think that you have a top eight worthy squad. And then, you know, no surprises here, but off an Ospreys poll, 57% said the Ospreys. I'll be honest, I think if we ran any of the individual ones all from the rapid, they'll come out with the Ospreys because they are clearly stronger squads. What was the purpose of this poll? Because it was obvious Ospreys are going to come top. The squads haven't been finalised yet. The squads haven't been finalised. I said this to Hugh, I said this to Harley, I think it was Harley, or I just said it in the rap chat. I think that with the signings that have been made, Scarlett and Cardiff on paper have got squads that could easily compete for that playoff position. No, that's not what you said. I don't know what I was going to say to Hugh. Cardiff and Scarlett have squads that better than the Ospreys because it's your classic Ospreys fan inferiority complex. You don't like being the favourites. We don't like being the favourites. We signed a man called William Greatbanks. Right? He's not a real person. You could not have convinced me that was a real person when that signing was announced. There's also a reply that happened to that poll, which is my favourite thing, and I've actually screenshotted it. It said, Joshua Lawrence said, surprise Cardiff didn't come within seven to win a losing bonus point from their Spurs supporters. So no, I just find it interesting in terms of what the Welsh public deem. Shall we just go, right, we'll just start off. Right, so we've got the Ospreys. Gareth Thomas, first choice loosehead. Zoe Lake, arguably should be first choice busker. Tom Bow, who everyone says should be off. You've got British and Irish lion, Adam Beard. You've got supposedly, Rhys Davies, who, let's be honest, would be a shoo-in to start. And then for back row, do you want to go with Justin Tipric, former British and Irish lion, former Wales captain. Big nose. Jack Morgan. Lines captain in waiting, everyone's calling him. You've got Harry Dees, who's ex-captain. Morgan Morris. Oh, and you've got Raffy. Right, you've got James Fender behind that. It doesn't matter. That's still a fucking fantastic pack. Right, Ruth Morgan-Williams, arguably the best, probably going to be the best nine this thing. Dan Edwards, who is damn big a reincarnate. You've got to accept, you've got a fucking fantastic squad. You can't keep playing that when you're not good. Just because Gatlin doesn't want to pick you, if anything, that's going to make your squad even better, because you're not going to miss them. Am I going to have to mute the pair of you? Honest to God, it's like watching, listening to two four-year-olds boys. It's like being on the egg chasers pod, fucking hell. I know, it must be terrible being told your team's good. We're not though. Media darlings. Anyway. Okay, sorry, you can move on now. James thinks Ospreys isn't very good. He thinks Ospreys are better than James thinks the Ospreys are. Let's move on. I don't think they're better than that. Fucking hell, boys. Right, let's actually talk one thing. Ospreys-Munster last weekend. Have you recovered to a stage where you can actually talk about the game yet, James? Yeah, I'm not really I'm not gutted. I am, because it was a relatively close loss. It was a 13-point loss, which is a 13-point loss when you lose in the manner when we did at home earlier in the season, I get more angry about. Because arguably we could have won that game earlier in the season, if Owen Williamson decides to be monumentally awful, and Alex Cusper's hamstring doesn't go, then you have a genuine chance of winning that. I never once, oh, there was a 90% to 10% chance that we could win. We would lose. I thought there's maybe a 10% chance where we turn them over. But it's Munster at home in a league quarterfinal. That is like, they've won, they've got 45-50, I think, in their last points tally. The points they can agree. There is no shame in losing to first place in the manner that we did. I think. To sort of borrow the Cardiff mentality of being the better losers than you are in that sense of you go out in a very good defensive manner where you front it up. You have boys who in the week had their personal team talk written for them. In Kieran Williams and Morgan Morris, who in defence were fucking phenomenal. I watched the game. I haven't watched it back. I sort of was half watching it because on this trip as well I was dealing with the young people. So... The young people. I don't like calling them kids because they're not kids. They're all teenagers. Kids are baby goats. At one point was I depressed about the loss. I think I was just flat because it was over. It was such an enjoyable season that even in that loss you were just like, fuck, yeah, you know what? This is why you stuck around this year. I know we can make the joke that Arsenal only get 12 people and a dog at their games and all that but there is a genuine core fan base at this club who have stuck through the... It's not a culmination because that journey is still going on but where we were when Toby took over to where we are now is a fucking miracle quite frankly. In terms of the game, obviously it started badly, Zybo goes over you're like, fuck, this could be a shoe-in year. And then we do score a genuinely lovely try. It's a lovely little slice over the top with Morgan Williams. We've done that quite a bit this year. They've tried that play a lot. It's never really come off. Good hands by Morgan Morris, good acceleration off the line, lovely flip-flop and walk-in and Giles gets over. We swung for the fence and we missed. Toby in the media said it best. You've got to take your chances. Probably the big narrative coming out of this from an Osprey fan point of view is Holly Davidson. I didn't think she had her best game. I won't lie and this is an opinion that's shared amongst Welsh rugby fans definitely except Hugh Griffin. I like Holly as a ref. I just didn't think she had her best game. You don't go to Munster and win the 50-50s. I think Robbie said we probably didn't win the 60-40s either. That's the margins of the game unfortunately. You've got stupid penalties at the end, you've got bits of luck here and there and that's it, that's knock-out rugby. We got there and that's the main thing because it's a benchmark to go further next year and that's what we have to do. And a bit of extra cash. Let's not ignore the fact that you do get a little bit extra. If there is that then of course that would be welcome but I think from our point of view it's that a lot has been said about the targets we set this year and that was to win the Welsh Shield or be the best Welsh region however you want to say it, to qualify for the European knockouts and to qualify for the playoffs. And they did. Which if you'd have said to Welsh rugby at the start of the year that a team would do that in the state that we were in, you'd probably be putting their arm off for at least maybe one of them. Obviously one of us is going to have to be top Welsh Shield. But if you ask for European knockouts or you ask for playoffs so yeah, we obviously won't turn our nose up at the couch but I think for this group, it's just, it's a benchmark more than anything. That it's you can compete against the best. A lot has been said in the week and it's literally been quoted that Fosrays were looked at for two performances and that was Bowles and Munster where we took 60. And we can't hide from that, we did take 60. Absolutely. But then we also went to Munster away and held them to two tries forced them to kick and Toby said in the post-match, that's a sign of respect. You know, the fact that you're forcing them to take threes and actually a certain member of this podcast was quoted in that post-match interview with Toby Booth and Mr. Jamie Phillips. Me? Yeah. Oh, you don't know this, do you? No, explain. So, whoever was asking the question and didn't actually see, it might have been Johan Dyer or someone like that, said that online there are people saying that they'd run through brick walls for Mr. Toby Booth. I wonder, have you tweeted that out on Friday? I think it's Friday or Thursday. Might have been me, yeah. Mr. Jamie Phillips and his 12 million Twitter followers caused a bit of stir in the rugby media again. Taking the limelight from the Cardiff Central podcast once again. That's my thoughts on the game. You know, happy we got there. Obviously gutted to lose the game, but in the manner that we did I'm not dwelling on it. So, for me, just looking at that game is, you guys were attacking just before halftime, so five minutes before halftime, scrummed deep in Munster 20 and you had them under pressure. You had them under pressure for a good five, six minutes and then you popped their front row. Their front row was up. And, alright, it wasn't strict, but there wasn't a single scrum. There must be something you wanted. But, I mean, it was both sides were in. So you couldn't call one side more than the other. Both sides were going in. But you guys popped their front row. You're here. Their front row's there. They're standing up. And she called it for them. And I can't... I'd look back at it. I've watched it and I don't understand how that call was made. Sometimes you can look at stuff and you can go, okay, they've seen this as a knock-on or they've seen some sort of offside or whatever and that's what they've called. But I can't see how that gets given to Munster. And you look at Tiperick and Tiperick was just... What the hell was that about? What's going on there? So... That's the swing though. We get the penalty there. And you're in. You score. And they said it in the post-match as well. That changes not necessarily Ospreay's team talk but Munster's team talk at half-time. Because you go in there... What is it? It's 12... 7 at that point? You go up there 12 or 14... Well, minimum, even if you took the kick, you go in at 12-10. So I think that was massive. That swing isn't random. So that's... Hindsight is the most exact science in the world, right? And we can sit here and say just that penalty kick changes the dynamic of the game. What would have changed the dynamic of the game is converting chances, taking points. We were unlucky to have... I'm not saying unlucky to have Owen Williams but Owen Williams in the context that he has a 48% goal-kicking percentage this year. Owen Williams is great. I didn't think he had a bad game but we sorely missed our... To say Dan Edwards is the first choice is a mental thing to say, right? Because he came into the season not even being third choice. You know, you had a Williams, Walsh, Scully, then him. He was meant to be your apprentice player playing for the Whites. So the fact he's gone in as your first choice, you don't have your first choice locks, you don't have things. They're not excuses, they're just contextual information. So, yeah, it probably does swing the momentum of the game and you come out there and you get another pounces, the other side of the heart, you do go, but knock out rugby. And that's how it goes and it's easy to sit here now and say yeah, that would have swung the game. And the coaches would have looked at that as well. The coaches would have said we should have won that. We also did some stupid stuff for the line now, doing stupid moves. But that's rugby. And there are standout players there. I've highlighted Morgan Morris and Keith, who again were brilliant in defence. If we're going to talk about Morgan Morris in the context of he doesn't do enough work off the ball, whatever that is. He made 16 tackles, four of the most aspirated tackle accounts. He made two dominant hits. He was visible around. He basically essentially did everything that Gatland asked of him. He really stepped up that game, I think. Do I think that warrants a Wales call-up? No. Gatland clearly doesn't want him and he's got more to work on. Kieran again, he missed four tackles. You can't get away from that. But in terms of his actual defence, he was excellent. And again, two dominant hits. Justin Tipperick, 34 years old. There's an argument to be made. He's still the best player in Welsh rugby, or played regional rugby. He was immense. And he is immense all year. And Ospreay's an infinitely better team when he's on the pitch. What do we think about Tipperick as a player? Like, right now. James tweeted out he's got reach, right? And for him to say that is mental, because that's complimenting someone like Ospreay. And he'd rather have a Hoonier than do that. He's class, isn't he? He's class. He's been brilliant. I thought he was excellent on Friday nights, again. And I think, from Ospreay's point of view, he was probably good. He's retired from international rugby. I think that's really benefited you guys. I thought Jack Morgan was really good as well. Yeah, Jack Morgan was very good. And Nicky Smith, I think he's going to be a big loss to you guys, because I do agree with what you and Lee are saying about Holly Davidson now. I like Holly Davidson. I think she's a good ref. I don't think she had her best game. There were some very questionable scrum decisions going on, shall we say. Nicky Smith won quite a few scrums, but he wasn't getting any reward for it. And I think that when he does leave the Ospreys, I think that's going to leave a big void, because he is a fantastic player, a brilliant scrummature. Leicester Tigers are getting a really good guy there, aren't they? And it's a shame I went panda. It's a shame. But in the second half, I think what frustrated me, I know typically, but the second half frustrated me, because Ospreys, they really fired a shot. And on the first half, they scored a brilliant try. Lovely pass from Owen Botkin. It was a good try from Keenan Charles. That's one of the tries of the season, I think. It was superb. And they had that period, didn't they, just before half-time. It was like 10 minutes and Lee, you mentioned that scrum. They couldn't quite get over the line. The second half, Leicester did a really good job of suffocating them. They could not get out to their own half. They were basically playing from their own half in that second half. And it was really frustrating. I'm not an Ospreys fan. Obviously, I wanted to win. But I found it really, really frustrating. And Munster were huffing and puffing. And it's a credit to the Ospreys defence, how solid it was. They were taking the points on offer, because that's what they had to do. It was a really valiant effort by the Ospreys, but they didn't fire a shot in that second half. And I found that really disappointing, if I'm honest. But a brilliant effort. Well, Munster had 17—they made the most dominant tackles of the round. They made 17 dominant tackles. I think it was a 90% tackle completion rate, which obviously doesn't say much, but just says that they were able to contain the Ospreys. But that's what they do. And Toby said it. He said they win the aerial battle, they frustrate you, they keep you pinned in the half. And they've got a world—they are a world-class team. They probably should have done better in Europe. But they are Urk champions for a reason. And they might be again. There's a good chance they might do it again. They've got Glasgow at home, and I wouldn't bet against them going back-to-back. No, I wouldn't either. And Ospreys have a small back three. I think Nagy is getting better every game, aerially. He's obviously nowhere near winning levels of that specialty. Nagy's specialty is more breaking the line. But we have a small back three. And that's been consistent. And that's what Kasper was saying, to alleviate, but never materialised. What's refreshing for an Ospreys loss is that you look at that game and everything that went wrong or everything that seemingly didn't go right is coachable. And I'm sort of looking at it with my coaching hat on and a player's hat on. When a loss is coachable, you can win it again. You can go into that season next year and say, right, we know how to beat Munson. We know where they're spaced. We know where the chinks in the armour are. And of course, they're going to work on it. But that's sport. Dragons did it at the start of last season. It's not a loss in which I'm sat here devastated. Okay. We'll do a little bit of a review of the season so far. The season, club by club, in a moment. But we just want to talk through what we've got coming through the summer. How many games have we actually got? South Africa first. Utah versus Australia. And Queensland against Red. So we've got four games. Because I had four games in my head and I couldn't work out what the last one was. It's the rest. So the plan is through summer to kind of do a little bit around those. And then to sit back and do Baggar All for a couple of weeks. Because it's been a long old track. And then we'll do some video stuff and we'll put some stuff together and all of that malarkey. But what is happening in the background through the summer is the SRC podcast. It is a recording bonus podcast with some of the new sides ready for the SRC launch. Which they still haven't actually said when the launch will be. They haven't said when the media day will be. But it kicks off at the start of September. And hopefully we'll be back with the URC pod at the start of September as well. As well as wrap and we'll do some stuff around pre-season. So Harley you've already alluded to the fact that you slipped a couple out. I think Dragons announced theirs Jim? I'm not sure about that. No I haven't seen any. Scarlet's announced one and then rumoured another couple. Ospreys any Jim? Exeter away is the only one. So we probably will have one at the brewery field. We generally always do. Because it's readily available throughout the season. I'd like to see it at St. Helens this time. Similar to how they had it. Not just like from a selfish point of view. In that it can be done a la the barbarian style set up they had last year. But yeah we'll likely have a home one. We normally play Hartbury or an English Champs side to sort of get a full squad run out. So we'll see. Nothing's been announced. Sorry just to add. Dragons haven't announced the fix. I just remember they played Bristol at Clifton RFC. Of course on the lovely ground. Yeah. Cool. So we will be back on a couple of weeks before the start of the season and all of that. With four of us. Not drop. Let's assume that four of us make it to the start of next season. And at some point the WRU don't go fuck it let's do three in the off season and just cock it all up for everyone. They'll be putting your stuff that is still around through the off season. So do stay in touch. I've got a part during the off season. I have a one off special. Tell us about your one off special. And then I'll throw you back a request that we've had to do a one off special. So you go do yours. I will be doing and I have it here. Give me one. So let's sort on whilst James goes on. Was he going round his house? What's he doing? Right. So I will be doing a retrospective on the 2013 Lions tour. We're going to Australia this year in terms of the Wales squad. And obviously the Lions are touring there next year. It's for me one of the least talked about apart from the one moment is one of the least talked about Lions tours. But is for me one of the most. I don't know which moment is the moment you're thinking of. Fucking hell. Pick up the fucking card. You can't let you finish and end it. You're so pathetic. Well we should stop spouting spurious nonsense. I think you'll find there were three moments. Yeah. Actually. Right. So I will be assembling a group of whoever I can find to have a look at this. I'm currently going through the DVD and all the games. I bought all the games on Amazon for £4. And the Barbarians game is worth it alone. That Barbarians. So I'll be doing a one off big pod special. Basically essentially a big good player. Trying to cash in on the one good idea I've had this year. Are you sure it's the one now? Because Harley might correct it to say that there were two good ideas that you had this year. I'll be honest I'm doubting if it's as many as one. He likes good players. I know but it's Will Owen's idea. It was Will Owen's. But he did banitise it so it's now my idea. Well the other request that we've had for a bonus pod is to do an imaginary region podcast with all the players that have departed from each region over the last couple of seasons to see if we can put through a decent side and how that side would get on against the current Welsh side. Obviously Teddy Leatherbarrow is going to be in there but just some of the ridiculous people that we've let go. Sanjay Jonathan Davis. Jonathan Davis still hasn't announced the club for next year which I find bizarre. But yeah all the players that were released. So it would and there's been a lot there's been a lot of players that have been released but we might throw that one in there somewhere as well and then depending on how the summer tour goes because I seem to remember we did it last year because we had this World Cup warm up last year wasn't it? So yeah that kind of got a little bit tasty. So anyway who knows what will come but Charlie you've got a couple as well Scarlett's are working on a couple but Jamie's going to chill and work on his bikini body and get ready for next year. Good man. Okay Right so let's have a little chat then about how the season went. From what you expected at the start of the season to where you ended up high points, low points, all of that kind of stuff. We've got bottom to top. Let's start with yourself then Jamie. How did you feel Dragon season went mate? My review of the Dragon season was it's a pile of shit at the end. That's my review dad. That's all you need to know. Same old shit. I didn't even have a chance to swig a beer mate. I mean it's a familiar tale of disappointment and underachievement yet again wasn't it? The stats speak for themselves. Four wins in 22 games 18 defeats. 15th in the league yet again. I think that's the third time now in a row we've finished bottom two. Dragons have finished bottom of the Welsh pile 16 times now in 21 seasons. And I think there's a recognition now at the Dragons and in Welsh rugby in general that it can't go on like this now. Something has to change because we're all getting fed up of it now. And that squad like I know is not as strong as the other teams in the league. It's not as strong as the other regions but they should have done better with what they had at their disposal. They should have done better. We were largely competitive at home but still no away win in the league since April 2022. That's not acceptable. That's embarrassing. And some of the performances on the road especially were pretty bad. Quite dire actually. The South African tour, that was a disaster. The Sharks put 69 points on us. Completely imploded. We all know about the Boxing Day derby. Dragons just didn't turn up. The players looked like they didn't want to be there. It wouldn't have mattered if we played. We just so happened to play Cardiff. I believe any team in the league would have batted us that day. I think Siva would have batted us against the Dragons. The body language just didn't look right from the off. Any luck in the other games away? Glasgow, we got pumped. The Judgement Day again was a disappointment. Although there's a focus on home games, the Dragons really got to try and learn to be better on the road. It's difficult to win games away from home, I get that. It's not a level playing field, but they've got to be stronger and better, more disciplined away from home. There were too many games of the season where Dragons lost it in the last 15 minutes. I think six games we were winning in the last quarter. We only won three of them. The Stormers and Connacht were prime examples where we were winning after 65 minutes and then it was a yellow card or a red card and we completely imploded. Not sure what that points to. Is that a fitness issue? Is it a mentality issue? Could be both, I don't know, but the Dragons got a pretty naked performance in 65 minutes. That's not enough, unfortunately. If it was, we'd be in the top half of the table, but it's not. That wasn't good enough. It was a dire season. Yet another disappointing season. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I did think that we would be a little bit more competitive with the budgets coming down and we'd narrow the gap between the other teams. It didn't happen. I think the Scarlets team is one of the worst Scarlets teams that I can remember and yet they finish 11 points above us. That's really disappointing. That's a missed opportunity for the Dragons to try and not finish bottom of the wash pile. I think next season will be the defining one for Dai Flanagan because this will be his first season. This will be his squad now. He's brought in the coaches that he wants to bring in. We have to be fair to Dai Flanagan because you've got to remember when he came to the Dragons, he's young and inexperienced. He did a good job coaching the Scarlets as an assistant, but you have to remember he lost his director of rugby, so he's thrown into that job. He wasn't expected to be chucked in that position, but he was after the Dean Bryant debacle. Then he lost his head of recruitment, Bob Burgess. He went to Bath. Then he lost his defence coach, so he's had to multitask and cover a lot of roles. I think that's really unfair on a young, inexperienced head coach that I do feel for him in that regard. It hasn't been an easy start for him at the Dragons, but next season, he's got to deliver results because I think the recruitment has been decent. Off the field, it's looking encouraging. We've brought in Rhys Blumberg, CEO, Brian Chambers from the WRU. We've got three owners who are committed and investing, and they're desperate to have more success. It's really good. They've got a lot of ambition. Everything is in the right direction off the field. I think we've got to start seeing it on the field because the excuses are running out now. Years ago, we could say as Dragons fans, we're the worst, we know we're shit, but we've got the lowest budget. We used to wear that badge, we're the lowest funded, we've got the lowest budget. We can't say that anymore because we are all on the same budget. Dive Flanagan now has got to start getting results. I like Dive Flanagan a lot. I want him to do well. He's a young Welsh coach. I really want him to do well. Of all the coaches we've had in the past 10 years or so, I really want Dive to succeed. If he doesn't get off to a good start and we carry on this trend of losing week in, week out, then I think he could be in trouble because I know, having spoken to a few supporters, they are starting to get a little fed up now and patience is running thin. The only way is up for us. We've got to improve. Like I said, we can't go on being the runt to the litter every season because it's getting incredibly boring. We need to kick on with the uncertainty in Welsh rugby. You're just making it easy for people to say, yeah, Dragons have got to be cut, they're the ones that should go. You've got to change the narrative. Something else Toby Booth spoke about, one of the things he said was, he wanted to earn respect. He wanted his Ospreay team to earn respect. They've certainly done that. That's what the Dragons need to do now. They need to earn respect. They need to start winning games, change the narrative, change the record, end the cycle or break the cycle, as Die Fragner likes to say. The only way is up. I'm hopeful for next season and I'm hopeful every season. It's been another familiar tale of woe, disappointment and same-olds, but fingers crossed for next season, I guess. Off the field, I think it would be better than on the field. They've been very positive. They've made good appointments, haven't they? Like I said, the new owners, Rhys Blumberg, the CEO, Brian Chambers, they've got field tier-tier. Hopefully, he'll make a difference. I'm a bit concerned that some Dragons supporters are putting a little bit too much faith in tier-tier. He will make a difference, but we should remember this guy hasn't got a magic wand. You can't expect him to come in to a team, to an environment that's used to losing, used to mediocrity and just wave a magic wand and make it go away. It's going to take time, but he should, at the very least, install some steel in the team and they should look up to him and respect him. We'll see. I've got a cracking hospitality box as well, as Jamie keeps pointing out in the group chat. Hospitality is well worth having. The car for beef dinner is very nice, honestly. Best beef dinner ever at Rodney Parade in the lounge. Lovely. We'll move a couple of places up the league and we'll look at the Scarlets. Overwhelmingly disappointment. There were bits in that season where we looked really, really good, but there were five minutes here, five minutes there, and we couldn't actually string an 80-minute performance together until Easter. Easter is where we started. It's very familiar, because it happened last year as well. Last year, we turned it at Christmas and we had a really good run and things started working, and then you go bump, right one, too little, too late. It felt a little bit like that again this season, that it was too little, too late. We did start actually playing some decent rugby at the end of the year, but it just felt annoying that we've got that many quality players there, but we can't actually do anything with them. I think a lot of that is off the pitch, and that's not Dwayne Peel. I think that's a lot of people around the club as well. Whether the internal or change runs make any difference to the start of next season, we'll have to wait and see, but we desperately need a good start to next season, because if we don't have a good start to next season, and we couldn't start the way we started this year with two absolute wallop-ins down in South Africa. By the time we came back from South Africa, it felt like we were halfway through the season. It was torrid. If we start next season that way, then I'm pretty much in the same kind of place as you, Jim. I do think that maybe Dwayne Peel might not survive that much longer. I've been there, I've coached, I've played, I've refereed, I've run the club. None of them are easy positions to be in. When your team isn't performing the way you want, it's really difficult to turn that round, and you've got to find something. You've got to find a way. We found a way at the end of last season, and then we turned it around at the end of this season, but we don't seem to maintain it in the off-season and then start again in the same place. We've lost our competitiveness, we've lost a little bit of edge up front. We've got some amazing backs, some of the backs that we've got are fantastic, but they can't do anything if they're going backwards from the start. It's just so frustrating. Literally, genuinely, just throwing stuff at the wall. Slippers, not glass, just to get the frustration out. It pisses you off. It really pisses you off every week. You're seeing that every week, and you're going, we're not improving, we're not learning, we haven't tightened up our defence around... Welcome to my world when I watch the Dragons. You've had your time. We're both in that similar place where we should be playing a lot better. Fingers crossed, next year, we do turn it. We've still got a lot of very loyal supporters. There are a couple of bell ends that will tweet anything if they think they can get 20 likes on it. There's a lot of people in that club that care about the club, that care about the players, that care about how we go forward. Those are the ones that start shouting a bit more than the dickheads. Just a frustrating season. Really, really frustrating. Finished well, just so many games where you go, we could have won that, we should have won that, could have done better there, should have done better, and then games where we just didn't fucking compete. They're the worst ones where you've just got boys on the pitch that just don't look like they're competing, and you go, what's the point? What's the point in being there if you're going to be like that? Give somebody else a chance. We try to maintain positivity, and we try to be up all through the season. There were some bits here where people were having a go at us for why aren't you slagging this player off, and why aren't you slagging that player off? What benefit is it going to do? There's a lot of potential there in the Scarlets. A lot of potential, and potential to play exciting rugby, and I think that's the difference. You want to play exciting and interesting rugby, but you've got to do the basics first, and we just weren't doing the basics. I'm hoping for a strong off-season, so we come back at the start of next season and actually do some decent damage, because if we don't, it's going to be hard to have a third season of Dwayne Peel and not achieving anything. I hope for his sake. Dwayne Peel is actually a really nice guy. He's come across really well when he's done supporters stuff. I would love to see him in front of the media more often. I would love to see him talking to fans more often, because he's passionate about the club. He's passionate about what he does. He really, really wants to turn the club into something big, like it used to be. I would love to see him being given that chance to just come and talk to supporters and go, this is what we want to do, and this is how we want to do it, but I suspect that there are other things going on behind the scenes that are restricting, shall we say, the enjoyment of coaching the club. I'm going to shut up now. I'll get myself in trouble, won't I? Anyway, frustrated, really, really frustrated is where we are. Harley, let's go up another couple of runs. Not too many, not as many as you thought, but let's go up a couple of runs. Cardiff, how was Cardiff season? Talking about being frustrated about games, you feel like you could have or should have won. We start off the season in control against Pemberton, and then stupid red card, lost the game, stayed in the seven, and that basically set the tone and effectively is how we finished the season as well. It's just lots of... I'd say we were competitive in almost every single game, apart from probably Toulouse, and let's be fair, how many teams this season have been competitive against Toulouse, really? I mean, off-field has been great, after Peter Thomas' death last year, and with the help of capital to take over, that's great. Yeah, Boring James is all the good news now. And, you know, investors are actually vocal and visible. Oh, shut up, vote for your own team, will you? Yes. It's been awesome, some good breakthrough players, some bargain-basement signings have come through really well for us, and I've mentioned already, Cam, 30 years to be here has been excellent. I thought Ben Donald, when he sort of broke his way into the team the second half of the season has been excellent. I mean, four wins just doesn't feel like enough, and I don't know what it is against them, because we played Scarlets whilst they were at their worst, and we still lost to them, and I still have no idea why, and even Hugh and other Scouts have said we should have lost at least one of those games. But, Neil disagrees, but he forgets, your team are fucking bobbins, and I have to say, I for one am hoping you get two big 40-point drub-ins in the first four rounds of the next season, preferably rounds two and four. Won't happen, but, you know, it'd be nice. That's charming. You don't want to know what I want to happen on Boxing Day, James. Ah, don't go there, please. He's started it already, mate. We're finishing off one season, and he's already trying to get some digs in for the first couple of rounds for the next season, and Christmas for crying out loud. Absolutely, give it a swing. It says the shit I get on the chat, right? You're going to get it all on the pod. Yeah, I mean, you know, James already pointed out, you know, basically, we had less people than support the Ospreys at training. You know, everyone's expectations are rock-bottom. A couple of people predicting Cardiff to finish at the bottom of the pile, or, you know, there and thereabouts. So actually, the state is competitive against a lot of the top teams. It's great. These cats are on beat and run against the Sharks and the Dragons, so it's fast, although the Sharks beating the Dragons or the Sharks isn't much to shout about at the moment, given the seasons they've had. It was always going to be shit. Next season, Ducky says, probably going to be worse, but it'd be nice to see if we can at least double the number of wins. We'll be playing in our favourite competition, the Challenge Cup, so, you know, there's a chance that something might happen there. Is that a positive finish to it, Arlie? That's a positive finish. That's where we belong, in the Challenge Cup. OK. So, let's crank up one or two extras, and into the top half of the table. So, James Ospreys and... That's the dizzying heights of it. We are not worthy. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just reading an old Ospreys programme. Just, you know, anything about the listening to Craig's whole bunch. So, I've actually done some... like a report card, very quickly, that I've probably forgotten what it is. So, I've given us an overall grade of B-. The high points for the season, I've gone either Ulster at home, because I don't think I'll ever experience euphoria like it again, or Storms Away. You've had a child this year. No. Dan Edwards dropped goal, or... Child. Your mother doesn't listen to this, does she? Oh, she does. Or Storms Away. Low points was Dragons Away. The Dragons Away game was a very, very good day for me. Like, I had a really... I was man of the match at my game. It was a great social on in the club, and there was me sat in the corner watching this Ospreys-Dragons game on my phone, with essentially a single tear running down my cheek because of this two-edged shit I was watching. Best player, Morgan Morris. Most underrated player, James Ratty. Try of the year, penalty try versus Cardiff. The moment of the year, however, is Harry Deeves' interview after the sale game. It is the best thing. I just love playing on brass. Like, I've never seen a better interview in rugby before or since. You can keep your Alex Goode in his full kit on the piss after winning the Prem. You can keep your Joe Marlow horse interview at what? Harry Deeves talking about Bridgend College and playing on grass. But in all seriousness, it is a good season. We finished in the playoffs. We won 14 out of what? 25 games? Something like that? 21, 25. I know they mentioned that on Scrum 5 today. 10 in the league. 4 in Europe. About that number. With a really just solid platform all year. Good forward pack. Although it doesn't look it, the backs play and interplay has got a lot better than where it was. And it is a really solid group of youngsters who have been given ample opportunity. Advanced, probably acceleration of the careers of Dan Edwards, Morgan Morse, who probably shouldn't be playing the amount of rugby they are. Dan Edwards, you can argue, Morgan Morse has played a lot of rugby from the 20s, has taken his chances really well. But looking down that, you've got Derwinson. He's played all his rugby off the bench, but then has grained it out. Cut his teeth at this level, gone to South Africa with the Cheetahs. Cam Jones has done the same. Tristan Davis has looked good. So, while I don't think we probably have the best crop of youngsters in terms of squads, in terms of individuals, we have two very good ones in Morse and Edwards. I do believe we have a really solid group that is very much in the Toby Booth mould of wanting to have not two standout players, but actually four or five really solid six and a half out of ten players all the time. Yeah, I think the big thing for me, though, is coming back to culture, is you can see just how close knit this squad are. And it does, it just gives you an extra, it almost counts for like an extra five or ten points in a game. Because when you have a squad that's so together, when you have a squad that wants to pull on the jersey that believes in what is happening, believes what the goals are, that does, you know, that buzzwords are thrown around in that find a way, in that time in the saddle, whatever the boozy bullshit you want to call it, right? Head lasso. Head lasso, yeah, as Gav says. It works. It does. It does, and it not only gets your fans on side, it gets new fans in, it gets fans of other regions on side, and the media love it. You know, and then all of a sudden you build this narrative of you are a very close team. For all we know, right, Morgan Morris and Reuben Morgan-Williams could fucking hate each other, right? They could be swearing at each other, throwing bottles across the changing room. But as far as everyone else is concerned, they are best friends. Because that's how the Ospreys portray themselves, and it shows on the pitch as well. You know, we did a double over the Scarlets this year for the first time in fuck knows how long, right? How much it meant to them players, but the younger players, the players who grew up watching Ospreys versus Scarlets in the stands. Like a Sam Parry who was an Ospreys fan in the Scarlets region. Akeelan Giles who was going to the games. Morgan Morris, up until very recently, had a season ticket in the East Stand, very close to where I used to sit. You know, Rodger Lewis obviously has those opportunities, but he was a season ticket holder. So you're starting to see that now of these young talents who were fans. And you'll get that in all the regions as well. You will have Boys of the Dragons who were fans of the Dragons. You will have you know, classically players who lived in Pontcana who went to go watch Scarlets. You will have Cardiff players who will have sat in the South Stand, will have sat in the North Stand. And that's what will drive it forward. We just happen to be a bit further on that journey than everyone else. So yeah, I couldn't be happy with the season in terms of where I thought we were going to be. I thought we were going to do a lot worse than we were. But I couldn't be happier, I couldn't be prouder. As a fan, you know, I just feel good going into pre-season and I haven't felt good going into pre-season in a while. Normally I'm just filled with existential dread, which will totally happen by about mid-July when I see that Jack Morgan and Dewey Lake are in some sort of Australian prison and Sam Parry's had like syphilis or TB and he can't play anymore. That'll be our luck. So yeah, really happy, but that happiness will turn to dread by American Independence Day. I've got to say, of all the season predictions that you could have come up with, James, that's some of the most bizarre season-starting predictions that you could have possibly got. It's worth a tenner. Right. Okay. So, we are going to start to wrap it up, guys. So, yeah. Let's just... I'm going to hand it over to you guys for a couple of minutes, just to talk about how you've enjoyed the season doing this. So, James, your first season with us. Harley, your first season with us. Jamie is a seasoned professional on his second season on wrap. So, yeah. Who wants to go first? Harley, you can go first. Give us your first season on wrap and with Cardiff Central and all of that sort of stuff, mate. It's been interesting. Up until now, I've only been over them bit parts and parts, and so being a regular, it's been quite exciting. I won the prediction league, but I'm sticking with that. At least Cardiff won something. James is upset because he's really shit at predictions. Yeah, it's been great. I wasn't initially planning to go to a quality test, but I've been really enjoying working with Carwyn and Dan since he's joined. I've managed to do some great guests like Jocky, Francisco Isaac, who somehow has decided to become a Cardiff fan. Andrew Ford, who I've always loved watching his YouTube videos, even before I started doing Twitter and stuff, so that's been great. Some of our close links with CF10, referees, it's been great. I've enjoyed this pod, I've enjoyed being wound up and winding up James. That's difficult. Really not difficult. What, to wind you up or for me to be wound up? Both, if I'm honest. Yeah, I've probably ended up drinking more different beers in a year than I'd normally do, so that's been quite fun as well, actually trying to find something different and not just go and talk to my old friends. Yeah, I think, do one of the J's want to join in? Jamie, do you want to go first or shall I? You can go if you want, yeah. Yeah, so I joined RAP and I joined the IRAE, sort of took it upon myself to be the sole or to be the lead on the IRAE, sort of run the socials, try and be the liaison with the fans and I can't stress how much that it has stressed me out in nine months. You know, but also how much it's just sort of changed my life in a way that it has allowed me to interact with so many, you know, cool rugby fans, so many journalists, with my heroes essentially in the Ospreys and sort of the people around it, you know, we, me and Yeston have known each other for a few years now, both sort of being in the East End, drinking in the Riverside, being from one village over, she's a bit younger than me, but then getting Robbie on board who, I don't know if you've realised this, Robbie reached out to us, we didn't reach out to Robbie, Robbie wanted to come on because Robbie is a fan, first and foremost, and, you know, it's been so great having him involved, having him as a friend, so the three of us, you know, are really close off the pot as well. And in terms of the rap, you know, it's been, don't get me wrong, you fuckers piss me off to the maximum, not Jamie though, he's nice and balanced. As always. As always. But yeah, it's just been a great year, it's been a long year, you know, my life from when I moved down to the south of England in September to where it is now is drastically different, I'm a father, I work in a completely different capacity than what I did, I host two podcasts, I run two social media accounts, I, my life couldn't be any more different to what it was. And, would I change it? Absolutely. This tires me out so much. But no, in all seriousness, it's been a great year. You know, really, I can't believe my judgement there actually, sort of meeting Jamie, meeting Gav, you know, me and Hugh, and the people who listen to the pod, so you know, thank you, we're not quite done yet, and here's to a great E5. Cool, fantastic. Jamie, go on, the floor is yours, Jamie. Yeah, just to say it's been another enjoyable season on wrap, I think we've got a really good team now, I think we've got good chemistry, good balance, I think James has been a really good addition, with the Ospreys and Harley as well. We've had a laugh of a week, and it has been a tough season for most of us, not all of us obviously, if you're an Ospreys fan, but we are talking a lot more about differences, and it's been difficult, but we've had a laugh, haven't we? We don't take the game seriously, we've had good chats, good banter, we have different beers every week, and it is good. Just to echo what James said there, one of the reasons I really enjoy this as well is because you do get to meet new people, you know, and at Judgement Day, we spoke about this before, it was really strange, people coming up to you and going, oh, you're from wrap? You're Jamie from wrap? You're James from wrap? There was quite a few people in the CCS that came up to me and James and recognised us from wrap, and it's nice. I felt a little bit uncomfortable, because I'm not used to that, like Jeremy, but it was nice, it was really, really nice, and I appreciate that. So, yeah, although it has been another tough season in Welsh rugby, it's been enjoyable, and like I said, we do have a laugh, don't we? We don't take it seriously, so I've enjoyed it. As for Dragon's Lair, I had zero intention to do a Dragon's Pod, as you know me, you've kept asking me that, and no, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it. Do you know anyone who'll do a Dragon's Pod? No, stop asking me, I've got no interest, because I found it a struggle talking about dragons every week on here, and I thought, I do not want to do another pod, talking about the dragons there. And then Gavin got in touch, Gavin Torres, my co-host, and to be honest with you, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have done it. But he got in touch and said, look, do you want to do it? I said, okay, let's give it a go. And do you know what? It's been good, yeah. I've really enjoyed it. Yes, it's been frustrating, because we end up repeating the same thing, you know, about the mistakes, the errors, you know, we've got a drinking game going on now. Gavin constantly talks about lack of leadership, you know, I talk about lack of written errors, and you know, we end up having to take a drink, you know, so we've had a bit of fun with it, but we have had some amazing guests on our pod, like seriously amazing guests. And I'm not saying this to brag, but I do think we've had the best guests out of all the pods. So there's too many today, but these are the people we've had joining us. So we've had Reinhard Landman joining us, James Benjamin, Adam Hughes, Colin Sharves, David Buttress, fair play to Buttress, right? He wasn't long after that card of tobacco. We didn't ask him. A fan got in touch and said, you need to get him on your pod to explain himself. David Buttress replied, I'll do it. I'm happy to do that. He didn't have to do that. I don't think any chairman of the other regions would have done that. Don't think there'd be many, would there? You know, maybe Lance though, yeah, but you know, not everyone would have done it. That's the point I'm making, yeah? So he didn't have to do it, but he did. And we asked him some difficult questions. Our listeners asked him some tough questions as well. He didn't shy away from any of them. And as you know, he was our most listened to pod listener. He was a very popular pod, well quoted in Wales Online, Silver as Argus, et cetera. So that was good for us. Ian Gough as well was a really good guest. Jamie Ringer. And the legend. Yeah. He was a really good guest. I didn't know what to expect from Jamie Ringer, but he was really good. Brock Harris. The legend that is Brock Harris. Live from the Stormless Tea Hotel. One of the nicest guys I've ever met, spoken to, and yeah, a Dragons legend. I love talking to proper nice guys. So we've been very fortunate to have some amazing guests. Like I said, they've been on this as well, you know, Sam Larner, Rhiannon Garth-Jones, Tom Coleman. There's too many to mention. But it's been tough talking about losses week in, week out, and next season I'd like to talk about more wins. But you know what, it's been a laugh, it's been enjoyable. Again, me and Gav, we don't take it seriously. It's like therapy for us. You know, it really is. So yeah, I've enjoyed it. Roll on next season where hopefully I get to talk about a couple more wins. Cool. It's like therapy. I know what you mean. I genuinely do. So yeah, for me and Scarlet, it was a really bizarre end to last season and start to this season. When we talk about how much this means to people and what it means to sit in my son's bedroom every Monday night and talk to three people I'd never met before and all of that kind of stuff about rugby. It's actually got me through the year. It's got me from if anybody saw the photos of me at the end of last July, start of August to where I am now. It's stuff like this that we don't really appreciate until you absolutely need it. The rugby fellowship, the rugby family, the fact that you can sit there and argue until you're blue in the face with somebody and then you turn around and go, do you want a beer? Go on then, go get a beer. So yeah, I've loved it. I love Drink of the Week. I love the fact that I start on Monday night and I go I'm not taking anybody anywhere because I'm having a beer and it's a handy little excuse and I love it. So yeah, for me it's a big thank you firstly to you three for turning up every week, for smiling, for doing your best. We all have shit times of the year and we've all just got to step out and go, you know what, it's not for me this week, but we all come back and it's really nice to see those three people that never met before that are now friends. From that, for me, it's a big thank you to you guys because this was my idea and it's grown and grown and grown and now it's getting a bit massive, but it's really nice to just sit there and talk bollocks about. Do you remember the first review we ever had, Jay? The very first review in season one where somebody tweeted us and said it's like listening to four arseholes talk bollocks about rugby in a pub and I love it. And that review has kind of stuck with me for a while. We weren't sure whether to take that first review, were we? It was a bit strange, wasn't it? And Scarlett, for you, when you talk about the biggest pod, your interview with David Buttress isn't actually the most listened to pod. The most listened to pod is Big M, Martin's interview with Newcastle Emlyn. It went absolutely mental. I think everyone that went to every Newcastle Emlyn supporter must have listened to it about five times because it just went crazy. He got invited down for the day, he had hospitality day and all that kind of stuff. Bloody freeloader. Freeloading, isn't he? Hospitality, who says that? I never got hospitality, I'll say that. But I think people were taking selfies with him and all sorts of stuff. It was just brilliant and it's a fact that really restores your faith in it. Big M, Martin, was the first guy on board. The first two episodes of Scarlett's Fever, or the Scarlett supporters podcast, as it was back then, was literally me talking to a screen, which was really bizarre. Martin has been there with me from the start and now I've left Scarlett's Fever. Martin, Hugh and Carwyn. He's a really nice guy. Those three on board are really, really good. For me, it's a big thank you to everyone. All of the guys who've helped out with your pods, with wrap and all of the ones who are coming in the future that are like, can I come on your pod? You want to come on the pod? We don't have to beg people on the pod now. Can I come on your pod? Can I have a chat? It's really encouraging. It's a little bit disconcerting. It's like, are you taking the piss? Are you winding me up? It's been a blast of a second season. The first season is looking awesome. It's looking fantastic. I'm already looking forward to it. That's pretty much us done, gents. That's us done for the year. What I will say about this season is that WRU didn't fuck up as much as they did last year. Seeing as the season is officially over in Wales, I think we can say that. WRU didn't fuck up as much as they did last year. Things are going in the right direction. Don't forget, there's a review coming. Hold your horses, lovely. That's all the time for WRU to fuck up. That's the end of this season. That's next season. He's making a football game on a derby day. The scope for the WRU fucking up is massive. For this season, it's officially ended as far as we're concerned. Done and dusted. We move on. The final people to thank are our listeners. When we started doing this two years ago, I think our first podcast had about 14 listeners. Three of them were me to make sure that the bloody thing was working. To go from there to where we are now has just been fantastic. We get loads of interaction from people. We get loads of comments. We don't get many negative comments anymore. The comments that we get are largely constructive. Can you do this? Can you do that? I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that tunes in, that switches on, that downloads us every week and interacts with us on social media. We genuinely wouldn't do it if nobody was listening. We wouldn't do it if people weren't interested in what we say. The fact that people are having a chat and enjoying what we do just makes it really, really enjoyable. I will end this season's podcast by a massive thank you to everyone that's listened. Please keep doing what you do. Tell your friends, tell your mates, tell your family. Put it on loud. Put it on proud because it's been a blast. We will be back for season three. And on that note, gents, enjoy your rugby. Have a good one. We'll see you in a couple of weeks for the summer season. All the best. Bye now. Thank you for listening to The Wrap Podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed recording it. Please do rate us and tell your friends as it really helps us to grow and get better. We'll be back next week for more of the same and until then, enjoy your rugby.