Cardiff Central - back with a bang!

The hosts of the Cardiff Central podcast discuss their experiences over the Christmas and New Year period, including watching rugby games and spending time with family. They then go on to discuss the recent game between Cardiff and the Ospreys, commenting on the poor weather conditions and the impact it had on the match. They also analyze the performance of individual players and discuss their opinions on the game's substitutions. The hosts express their frustration with players celebrating prematurely and express their concerns about potential future failures as a result. They also comment on the selection of substitutions made by the coaches. Welcome to the Cardiff Central podcast. Hello and Happy New Year from us at Cardiff Central. I'm Harley as always and joining me is Carlin. How are you doing Carlin? Yeah, not too bad mate, not too bad. Nice to be in this new year, 2024, the year of hope and glory. How are you feeling Harley? New job, new year, new everything, isn't it? Well, new job, old way of living because I'm back from my mother, which is not as grateful as I am for generosity. It's something really bad about paying a mortgage and still living in your mother's house at the same time. But it was a great Christmas. I'm excited to have a job which I don't have to reply for every couple of months, every couple of years. So, you know, all good. How was your Christmas? Yeah, great. I was traveling back and forth the West world every couple of days trying to please two sets of families and I think we pleased neither overall, but you know, we tried our best. But yeah, it was nice to be fair. I caught the derby, the Scarlett's Osprey derby on Boxing Day and then New Year's Day I was working for the Beeb. So I was catching the derbies in Central Square and watching the games there. So it was a busy rugby watching Christmas, even though I was busy with family as well. Well, as I said, you probably had a much nicer viewing experience than the people who were at the brewery field then. You were in a nice office. Well, there's a joke there about I only got to do half the second half that I worry about certain people I work for. I think the conditions are so dreadful. Nothing could be done with it. There's a lot of talk about the pitch and all this sort of thing. But I've got to say, I haven't seen conditions like that weather-wise in Wales for a long, long time. It was sort of looked like Connacht away day, didn't it really? That's what it reminded me of. I thought everything would seem to be a Connacht away day for the first half and then second half seems to be Connacht's worst ever scenario. Yeah, I was a drowned rat compared to the people who were at the brewery field, I suppose. Yeah, that game should have stopped after 60 minutes. Nothing to do with that, but that was when Cardiff was still in the lead. Can I ask you on that one? There's obviously been a lot of talk on it of the pitch gate, well, pitch gate, I don't want to call it pitch gate, but everyone's been talking about it. Do you feel the game should have gone ahead? I mean, we can't say, oh, you can't simultaneously say, well, we're tougher than footballers, it's not football, blah, blah, blah, and then get upset because it's muddy. But it really did play into Osprey's hands better than Cardiff. You've got to praise the Ospreys for that one. A bit of a spoiler, so if you didn't realise by now, you probably, I don't know why you're listening to this podcast. But yeah, so obviously we lost the New Year's Day derby to the Ospreys 27-21 after a decent, a decent 20. 21, you're right. Perhaps I'll remember the skills. Yeah, so in the brewery field, it was absolutely torrential rain as it had been for the past few days. I think the one day over Christmas happened to be boxing day, which is likely the one day I did play rugby. And the pitch was not that bad. I'll be honest, most of our training pitchers have gotten to that sort of state by then. So you do have to feel for the groundspeople. And yeah, apparently the brewery field is one of the better draining ones. And yeah, we could go into a long debate about the Ospreys needing a ground. They've got primacy of tenancy, but that's the situation. Can't really fault that. There are things Cardiff could have done to make that game more winnable for them, but we'll move, we'll go on. Should we just start with the Ospreys derby now whilst we're basically talking about it? Yeah, sorry, I think I've jumped the gun and moved us a few topics on, haven't I? We'll circle back to news and things. Let's go with the flow. If we were a football podcast, we'd have breaking news right now because Jemma Granger's just resigned as Wales coach, but that's by the by. But yeah, just look at the Ospreys game because it seems to be a tale of Cardiff season, is it? Is that fair to say? Tale of two halves and all that jazz? Yeah, I think if anything, it's just a tale of Cardiff over the last five, six years is that when it's a game of, as someone would call it, a game of rugby, about throwing the ball around, we were doing pretty well. The two tries, one thing is despite all that rain and all that horrible mud, you've got to remember five of those six tries scored were all from open play, which by the way is so, with Charles getting a brace. I think, I mean, I thought the Mason, I mean, the Mason Grady try was brilliant. I did laugh, I did say to James of the, one of the co-hosts of the WRAP and of the Ospreys earlier, the only thing Jack Walsh did wrong in that Mason Grady try was he's not six foot five. Yeah, I think the only way you could stop that. But to be fair, I did wonder if he was still suffering the effect. He's come just straight from a head knock with Harry Dees, didn't he, where Harry Dees went off and didn't come back on. And then he's gone up for a high ball and he's got it wrong, hasn't he? Let's be honest about it. And there's plenty of good players out there that have made that mistake before. Mason Grady being six foot five or whatever it is, doesn't make things any easier. If the person next to you can reach their arm higher than you can jump, you're losing the battle. But he took it well. I mean, you know, he didn't break strides, so that was impressive. Sorry, just Morgan Morse's try as well was just, yeah, it may have caused injury to Taurus signing of the season, Tina Sabir, but it was such a good try. Look, Jessen and I were talking about it on the Welsh pod yesterday and it's hard not to get excited about him. And I know this is a kind of pod and all that, but the kid is, the sky's the limit as far as, and you don't want to put pressure on him, but he's a confident young lad. And I mean that in the best way. Morgan Morse, I've spoken to him in an interview and he looks the real deal and seems to want to put the work in. And if he does, he could be a brilliant player for the future. Like Dan Edwards, who I thought was superb in the second half as well, just want to mention his as well because they did turn the game those two moments. Do you think if Dan Edwards didn't come on until later in the game, Cardiff would have played better? It's like Owen Williams is still playing pen. Owen Williams didn't have his best day, let's be honest about it. I feel like he was, that was a good, that was a good substitution from Booth, I thought. Yeah, it was a weird one. Yeah, because that's a weird one because that's the sort of conditions I would have gone, oh, it's Owen Williams' bag, isn't it? Like long kicking, trying to get territory, defensive solidity, all the things which I would attribute to Owen Williams. Those are things that I'd say, yeah, he's brilliant at those things. Whereas the running rugby side of the game is probably the side where you say, oh, is that Owen Williams' bag? Is that his strength? But yeah, it did seem to really reap the rewards with Dan Edwards coming on in the second half. But yeah, before we move on, just because it's popped on, that is the second time a Cardiff player, by the way, has celebrated early and it needs to stop, Mason Grady, because I mentioned it after the Ben Thomas won against, I can't remember who it was against now, a couple of weeks ago, inside ball from Lilo after Thomas Williams' half offload. But yeah, Bath, I think it was. It needs to stop because this is just ringing clacks into my head that there's going to be an absolute failure of some kind in the future. It reminds me, was it one of the fans of the pub? I believe Tony, sorry if I've forgotten your name, I didn't write it down. And, you know, it was well over a week ago, but yes, you know, he commented on when we shared the clip of Mason Grady's going to stop celebrating early. It gives me hitters. I just, I can see Freddie Burns. I just see, I see Liguizamon, I see like all these, not some Liguizamon, are the Argentinian back rower and second rower whose name, it might be Liguizamon. Anyway, moving on. I'm a bit scatter-brewed today. But these moments where players and me, humongous errors, just don't do it. Please don't do it. I can't express this enough. If I could have a direct line to Matt Sheridan, like everything else is great. Keep doing what you're doing, but just please tell the players not to celebrate early. It's driving me insane. It's my biggest worry for the future, I think, that it's going to go wrong for someone. And yeah, once it does, it's up on YouTube and memes and all sorts forever, isn't it? So it's, yeah, best stayed away from. I said, well, I said, just to sort of counteract the, you know, the idea that bringing Dan Edwards on was brilliant. I thought Matt Sheridan's policy, once again, was a bit suspect for me. Like I thought, I feel like when he made all the changes, particularly in the back five, it really underpowered the scrum and, you know, it was always going to cause us a bad time. But, you know, I feel like when you, as soon as you took Teddy and Timani off, you lost an awful lot of bulk in that pack. I mean, it didn't help we spent 20 minutes, you know, a good 20 minutes with only 14 players, because just our moral defense just was not where it needed to be that game. Yeah, I can't, I can't disagree. But at the same time, I do feel playing Harry Hindsight with that sort of substitutions. Yeah, when it's difficult, I think that's a difficult game to pick the right substitutions. So I don't think I'd have the options to really change things because they needed to, the momentum was changing. So therefore, you need to make changes. But I think the changes that were on offer were not the changes that were required, perhaps, because, you know, that Ospreay's pack, you stick Delwey Lake in a back row with Morgan Morse and players like that. And then you've got a front row with an international coming on at hook. You've got other internationals scattered through the pack, a future international James Flanders playing brilliantly in second row. And it's like, that was a game that Ospreay's were always going to win from that point, because they just have that armoury. I was listening to something the other day, and they were talking about, if Ospreay played games at the brewery field every week, they'd probably win more games than they do currently, because that weather, those conditions, that pitch setup is going to suit them, because they've got basically an international pack. And yeah, I can't, I don't want to put that one on Sheriff. I think that was a case of needing to make substitutions, but maybe not having the personnel at that stage to make them. Yeah, I say, I think the same thing for me is because we had both, both had Teddy and Timani on at the same time, you know, that's an awful lot of carrying power, a lot of bulk. And it drops when really you want to be swapping those two around, you know, but then I think with injuries to the back row, that's sort of strong as it, you know, and then as soon as you've got, you start putting, you know, the likes of Josh Turnbull in the second row, he's perfectly serviceable on a nice firm ground, but then when you put him behind Carey, who is the weakest strokes, you know, the weaker of our two international loosehead props, it is going to, you know, you are going to, and then you have Mason Grady packing down at six, although he's a big boy, he's not a back row big boy. Yeah. You know, he needs a few, you know, he needs to eat a few more turkey sandwiches for that. So, but, and it was, it was just a bit, I mean, I do think, I mean, I did think it was a bit worrying though. I know the conditions make it, make it convincing, but I do think as well, Tina Stabia going off was probably, you know, that's, you know, we, we were able to sort of keep the ospreys back enough whilst he was on the pitch. And then as soon as that injury, it, you know, it was just like, that's it. But that actually wasn't. Sorry, go on, go on. I was just saying, I think, you know, our territorial game got a lot worse since the beer came off. And again, you can't miss a gate for that, so. Yeah. What I was going to say is that's one way you can sort of point to Jotty and say, right, you haven't really given another tennis a shot. So once the beer drops down, there was no one else to pick up the slack. The flip side of that is, I would say, kind of haven't been in this, in a comfortable position in many games where they've been able to say, right, we can give you a 20 minute rest the beer and bring someone else in. So that is the easy counter. And, you know, being honest about it, the times he has given another opportunity, they haven't quite taken it so far this season. So, look, it's a worrying one with the beer and hopefully he's back to full fitness and full health, but he's become a key player and has been really good at points of the season for Cardiff and, in my opinion, is definitely growing as a URC 10. It's just that continuation of an 80 minute performance from the beer that we're still maybe waiting for, bar the bar game, I suppose, a bit. Yeah, well, speaking of, you know, to sort of go from the small, you know, the slightly more negative than positive game against the Ospreys, I think for the most part we were excellent. I thought the first half we held our own up front and our backline worked really well. But I said, should we move on to the pre, the boxing day, Darby? I thought it was really quick to mention two players who I thought were super in the session that day, Sporty versus Seb and Cam Winnett. But yeah, we'll move on to the boxing day, which was a lot more positive to talk about. I'm running out of superlatives for Cam Winnett, I'll be honest. He, you know, he's getting, you know, he carries on like this, he's going to have like Dan Fish level, the cult hero. He's also going to have a whole horde of Cardiff fans just marching on Warren Gatlin's office to demand him being in the 15 shirt, isn't he? Let's be honest about it, because that's the way he's playing at the moment. He's playing like an international 15. I mean, to me, he's the best Welsh qualified 15 playing at the moment. I know Alex Hughes from Scarlet Sea, really, he's banging the Clarevin strip and I do see it, but to me, I think Cam Winnett is far more in the classic mould of what Gatlin wants in a fullback. Surprisingly so. Before this season, I didn't see any of that. I saw the complete, I saw the counter attacking, I saw the step, I saw the slight of hand and the slight of waist, which is not a phrase, but run with it. I get what you mean, yeah. The will is always there. I guess it's probably that. Surely through anything, but I've seen bravery, I've seen high ball proficiency, I've seen kicking prowess, seen pretty much everything. Yeah, exactly. And Hart really faulted this season, which is something I thought he'd get caught out a few times offensively this season, simply because he's a young 15. I can't really name you one where I can't hold bodies at a howler there. There's one drop ball, I think. I think there's one drop ball, which I think any 98% of people will drop. Yeah, he's just been brilliant. So all that to him, and I hope he can continue this form. I suppose going from one hopeful Wales star fullback, shall we talk about the sad news of JPR? Yes, yeah. Obviously, desperately sad, the year of JPR's passing in 74. Quite fitting, almost, that that game was played at the brewery fields, obviously, where he made his name as a Bridgend player, and then London Welsh, Wales and the Lions. I think I tweeted something along the lines of the sideburns, the defence or the tackles, and that dropped goal. It's hard to sum up a player like JPR, but there are certain things that run in your brain, which are those tackles on the Frenchman whose name escapes me, the dropped goal for the Lions, obviously, that record against England never having lost. Other parts of his game as well, the 99 calls, where he seemed to take that to heart, like, this is my job, which I'm pretty sure William John McQuarrie was saying, no, this is a forward thing, but no matter what, JPR is a fullback. You argue with him. Yeah, good luck to you. Yeah, so part of the Invincibles tour. Obviously, before our time, I think it's safe to say, but the memory lives on, you always know the silhouettes. One point I didn't think of, but I thought it was spot on, blood and mud, Josh Gardner pointing out that JPR is exactly what Gatlin tried to bring out of all his Wales teams, is that doggedness, and like, no, we're not going away. This is going to be a fight. You don't get to be easy. This is a fight. We're going to fight for every last inch, and then we're going to blow you away, and it's like, and, you know, it does make me think, you know, like, you know, this is what Liam, you know, I think of Liam Williams at times when people tell me stories and things. He's just an aggressive git who will make sure that you do not go past. And yeah, it's quite nice seeing Cam Winn. It's starting to take a bit of that on as well. So yeah, maybe that is the Welsh fullback DNA. Yeah, I think maybe it is, and like, JPR, it's not just Welshness. I think McGee's called him the best fullback of all time. That's a high praise from a player and coach of his calibre. Obviously, you know, there's players from all across the globe, Cullen, Blanco, etc, they'll argue that, or the fans of them, but he was just so iconic and such a brilliant player in so many facets of the game. Yeah, so I'd love to go out there, friend and family, obviously, but yeah, what a player and what an icon for Wales. Well, he changed what a fullback did. You know, a fullback would basically just be there, make tackles, catch, you know, occasionally catch volleyballs. He's the one who turned it into an actual attacking position and having that aggressiveness and actually, you know, just doing that power on the pitch. So, and yeah, I think a couple of people have made the point that he'd actually work today, which isn't something you'd often say of, you know, particularly amateur-era players. Yeah. Would you take him today? I'll be honest, he was a player, he only finished rugby, what, 10 years, 10, 12 years ago? Yeah, yeah, I'd have taken him, yeah. I'd have taken him crying JPR. Maybe you have to remind him you can't slug the nearest Englishman, but I'd definitely have taken him. Yeah. So, yeah, I think on behalf of Colin and myself, you know, condolences to the family and, you know, people of Bridgend Ravens who held the man very dear to their hearts. This is a really clunky segment now, but we do have to talk about the Dragons game. I don't really have too much to say about it apart from that was probably the best our attackers worked all season and I hope that's a sign of things, you know, that it's clicking, but Dragons are a bit woeful. Yeah, I'm not going to focus on it, but there's a couple of, anyone who's seen the tries, there's a couple of tackles in there where you go, come on now. But I thought Cardiff were brilliant, executed it brilliantly. I guess there's a stat, something like the third or fourth team ever to score seven tries in the first half of a Celtic Challenge or Celtic Cup or ULC game. I think one of the others was the Cardiff performance against Conor back in the day. So maybe there's some history there, but yeah, what a performance. Ben Thomas was superb, I thought. The line he cut off the line, going to Basham and scoring was brilliant. Thomas, both of them coming back like he hadn't missed a step, which was great to see. We've, both of us have sort of talked about both of them at length about how much we've missed him. Just missing him on a pitch let alone, not saying that the Cardiff have missed him that much really because of how strong the back rows were going, but how great a player he is and he looked like he hadn't missed a step and was brilliant at seven, which I think is probably not his primary position nowadays, but yeah, can't fault the first half performance. Maybe if you're being a little bit pernickety, you could say second half would have been nice to keep the foot on the pedal a little bit more, but I think that is being overly pernickety, especially when you've got Domachowski running in from 70 yards and Camwyn at scoring. Sorry, yeah, Aserati, who did I say? Hey, you said Domachowski. Hey, the lads on the tight end side don't score many tries, but it's nice to see both Aserati and Listerick have gotten on the score sheet this season. I knew exactly what I meant, but I said Domachowski at seven, but yeah, Aserati scored from seven. Domachowski would argue he'd scored from 80, but yeah, it was one hell of an effort from Aserati. If anyone has seen it, I am exaggerating, it was only from 30, but give it to him. I mean, it's one I don't think you need to make up the distance on, because it was still a decent bit of pace he showed there. Yeah, honestly, that guy's got strength. I think we'll come to it later in the pod, but I think he's made himself undroppable in terms of a squad for Wales going forward, but for Cardiff, he's undroppable at tight end, so what do you say more? He's going from strength to strength, he's increased his scrimmage and prowess, he's got great hands, works well in the loose, and if he scores tries like that every other week, I won't be complaining. And he's an optional hooker. Yes, which... You can even put him down as a prof who can hook. Under recent laws, that is always a benefit, isn't it? Yeah, but I don't know how much he's wanted to do that, because I think there's only a couple of times for the rags, really, he did it. I think they were trying that at the start of the last season, and then injuries meant he had to come and play... I'd take it over going down to 14 men to bring a hooker on, so I'd go down to 100% because that's his scrimmage, so that's my... That's the first one I'll say on that one, to be honest. And whilst we've still got him, at least we can just get Thomas Williams to throw in the line-ups. You can do pretty much anything else with ball skills. Yeah, you've let a cat out of the bag there, I was going to say. Yeah, so, speaking of, Thomas Williams will be leaving us at the end of the season, after 12, 15 years as part of the Cardiff set-up, both senior and academy. A hundred-odd caps, a load of tries and points, thanks to that game where he had to really kick the goals. It's going to be sad to see him go, but the one thing that has, that at least for me, takes the sting off of it is how well Ellis Bevans played, whenever he's had the chance. And he hasn't had the chance yet, but Jamie Hare, when he was playing before his big injury, was really good as well. Yeah, I completely agree on Bevan. I'm excited to see where his future goes, I've been really impressed with him. I think it was earlier in the season where I was saying, we should probably stick with Bevan for a couple of weeks, because of how well he was playing, and maybe bring Thomas Williams back into the fold slowly. But yeah, Thomas, what a servant to the club. And not just a servant, what he's brought to it, in terms of, everyone loves saying the X Factor, but he has got it in abundance, whether it be that offload at the back of the hand, half break against Bath, whether it be the try against Gloucester, which interestingly left out of his eye that's real, whether it be moments which we've seen, Gatlin talks about it as a 10 option, and you can see that with his little chips over the top. The sense of it has always been solid and works his socks off. So yeah, look, it's sad that I understand why he's made the move, and I understand why Cardiff have maybe been forced into agreeing to it, because let's be honest, we all know the situation that's going on at the moment, with the salary cap going down to 4.5 and all that entails. But for Gloucester, it's one hell of a signing, because they are in a hole at the moment. Hopefully they get out of that hole before he joins, because he deserves to be in a good side, go forward and getting wins. But what a coup it is for Gloucester, especially with the youngs from Arpex, even Barney behind him to learn from him, because that's going to help Barney through the roof, and hopefully help the likes of Hastings outside in the future as well. Well, I'm not so sure about the Hastings thing, because I believe he's looking to go elsewhere. Rumour has it, can Sheedy be in the replacement there? I did see that. Anyway, I suppose... There's a report about Charlie Atkinson as well, I think, supposed to be signing. So it could be an Atkinson, Atkinson 10, 12, 13, the way things are going. Hold on, you've forgotten about, hopefully there should be a big Glamour Powerboy in 12 at some stage in the future, near future, hopefully. Oh, I said, if he can get in past Atkinson and Atkinson. Unfortunately, he's not really been getting the game time I'd have liked him to have over there. That's not really Cardiff. So we won't worry about that. Yeah, that's the other thing I would say is Thomas will certainly get game time there. It's because he will be the number one scrum heart and deserves to be so, which is great for him and what he deserves and should be. Great for Wales in the future. And as you said, get Alice Bairdman and Jamie Hill to step up. And if someone else comes up in a market that's available, then all the better. But if you say to me next season, Cardiff are going into the next season with Alice Bairdman as first scrum up, I'm not going to be afraid of that. I think he's definitely got the ability to do it. It reminds me of the younger Thomas. Yeah. It's very, I think it's quite different to Thomas actually. I would say, it reminds me more of... It's more the, I think it's more the confidence in himself. But I think that's, you know... But that's just a nine. Name me a nine who isn't full of confidence and some would call it arrogance and cockiness. I mean, I don't want to pick on him, but... He looks constantly confused when I watch him play. So that just might be his face. It might just be because he's got the face of a 12 year old. Yeah, he's got the face of a 12 year old. I don't think it helps him there with that. Yeah, I don't want to start beef with just, you know, like random lads. Especially when I know the fact that, you know, they've easily beat me in a fight. In better news, Willis Halliholo has had his contract extended to the end of the season. So it will no longer be a month-by-month rolling thing. So I think the best thing about that is, you know, it's given him some security till the end of the season. Whether it's, you know, hopefully that gives him a chance to focus on rugby and sort out what his long-term future is going to be. Whether that is remaining at the Alms Park, or if he wants to head over to, I heard some very, very, the most rumoury of rumours. I'm having some conversation with Dave Butcher after the Dragons game, but I think he's probably just being friendly. But anyway. I've got nothing to add apart from two, right, that he's got a contract. In a bad time. That's all I'm going to say on that. I don't know the ins and outs, but yeah. It's a bad time. He deserves it. Move on. Good. Some rumours about Grady moving. So we've got some rumours. So Reece Carey's strongly linked with going back to Sarri's. Didn't really get a good crack last time, but there's rumours that Mako Vinopola's going to be going. So that's, so, you know, it's more game time. It's not been confirmed yet, but that's a strong rumour. And then Mason Grady went to watch Maxwell in play in Bath, and therefore he is now going to sign with them, is the current new rumour. How strong? You might know a little bit more about that, don't you? I think that... I think saying about it is another story. Yeah, what I know, it is very minimal. The factual thing of it is any club will be looking at Grady. Because who doesn't want a six foot five winger slash outside centre who can truck it up, plus run round players, plus fend them off, plus is good in the air to play for their side. Who doesn't want that? Yet, I think English Premier League clubs are interested. I can understand that situation. Is it a worry because of the 25 cap rule? Yes. I know there's all this talk recently about players being eligible for, if they're not offered serious contracts, etc, etc. I don't quite understand all of that, I must be honest. It's a worry for Wales. But first and foremost, I'd say it's a worry for Cardiff. I said a few weeks ago on the pod that I'm a bit worried about the long-term future of the 13 jersey, considering Lilo and etc, etc. And I think Grady has to be on that list of keeping as much as you can, because it has to be a priority. If you think about his contract demands, he's not yet a British Lions, so he's not getting that top brand of... And he's not yet a starting international either, so again, that's bringing him down a little bit. But I can see him in the next year or two being that starting. But again, we're not winging 13. Exactly. So I think you've got to try and keep him for as long as possible. Without going into the in-depth analysis of the financial details of everything, I can't say for sure whether it's a good decision or not. But on a purely player basis, I think he has to be one of the players that you look at and say, keep as much as you can, because what a player he can be. He already is a brilliant prospect and already is a brilliant player. So the sky's the limit, as Evan said. On the Cary thing, the Saracens rumour happens every blimming season, and frankly, I'm fed up of hearing that he's going to Sary. So that's my opinion on that one. Whether or not it's true or not, it'd be sad to see him go, obviously. But I can also understand why he'd want to in the current situation, especially after last summer, where he probably feels a little bit of a slap in the face in international terms. So maybe international honours aren't as much in his mindset at the moment. I don't know. But I wish him all the best and hopefully he stays. But I understand if he wants to leave. I understand the Tomos leaving as well. Yeah. Yeah, so I said, I think of the two, so of Grady and Cary, I think Grady's probably the one we need to keep for more long term. And also because we don't really have any debts at 13, like any serious proper international class debt. Whereas we do at least have Domachowski, that loose head. So we do still have that starting loose head property. It's going to help. The fact we have both is great. But, you know, if we could keep both, you know, fantastic. So I'm sorry I forgot who on the Twitter feed asked about retaining players. I think Grady, probably the most essential one, can win it. Alex Mann and Teddy, I think, is another one I think we need. I think the Ospreys game showed our second row of debts is quite thin. It's not just that Teddy to start. Teddy's going to be a brilliant second row. So yeah, Teddy's, you know, like, I think, I think as soon as you lose Teddy, you know, it does start crumbling. You know, I think, you know, the role he has in that pack. I feel like Seb and Thornton, although slightly different players, they have a very similar role in the team. You know, they're, you know, you know, they're that more classic loose head block. They're running lineouts and they're, you know, getting up and they're giving a little bit more freedom as Teddy's doing a lot of that. Although he does some fantastic offloads and his offloading has been fantastic. He is also doing a lot of the groundwork. Yeah, I really, you know, I think if someone we really need and if we could clone him and have another one, like have two of them on at the pitch at all times, that'd be great. Yeah, unfortunately, genetics doesn't work like that. So can I have another one, which is Belcher? Because I agree. Although I think Evan Daniel and Ethan Daniel and Evan Lloyd have been fantastic. Belcher has gone up so many gears this season. I don't know what happened. I don't know if it's because he's got the captaincy or if it's because he knows it's his shirt to lose. But this is the best I've ever seen him play. And he's scrummaging well. His throwing is a lot better than it ever has been. Around the park, he's excellent. Quite a captain that I don't like. But I mean, that's something you can grow into. Yeah, it's not enough from the, you know, get Sam Warden. He's on our board. Get Sam Warden to actually do something and coach him to be a captain. You know, go on. It's not the captaincy is the main thing for me. It's the form. If you said at the start of the season, I looked at it and went, God, you've lost Stacey. You've lost Myhill. Now Belcher's out and out number one with Daniel and Lloyd, who Lloyd's a converted hooker. He's only really just learning the trade. Big fan of Daniel. I mentioned it several times. I thought Daniel would be pushing Belcher for number one jersey. To be honest, I thought he might have it by now. And Belcher's just gone through so many years. He's incredible, I think. That's brilliant. No wonder people are talking about him as not even an out. So I bet for Wales honours in the near future. Because he's been phenomenal, fully deserves. And I think he's sort of playing he needs to keep, because he's got that experience. I don't know, you know, again, don't know this financial exact honours. But if we're talking about roughly working it out in terms of the pay break, not yet an international, so therefore will be a bit less than some of the other players. He's got that experience, on the other hand. Currently not playing internationally, so he's going to be there week in, week out. Runs the line out really well. Offers you a cap and see option as well on top. I don't see why that has to be a player that you keep for long term. Because he will just, he'll make players around him better. He'll make the players behind him better. You know, he's been brilliant so far this season. Full credit to him. So, yeah, again, we are sort of talking about players that we want to keep, as opposed to players that we're worried about, that are going to leave, because we're not 100% sure on their contract situations. But he has to be on top of any list of players to keep, because he's been brilliant. I said that hopefully they've done something, because they knew what the budgets for this and next season, and the next five, six seasons. I'm hoping that they've put, when obviously you have the Rhonda front row of Donachowski, Belcher and Azrafi signing. Hopefully that's at least two years. I'm hoping it's three, but it's probably going to be a two year, which is more of the done thing in rugby. Yeah. So hopefully that's, you know, we don't have to worry about that until this season. Because I think it's only about, I think it's a lot fewer, there are far fewer players this season than there were last season. And I think there might be, I think Tamani's deal might be up, which if we can keep him, I'd quite like that. Just as having that extra bulk. But if he goes, I'm hoping that, you know, both, you know, the likes of both McKenzie and Martin are going to be there to step up. Again, I don't know the ins and outs, but sadly, I think Tamani's one way, which is it's going to be a surprise. I'd be surprised if Tamani stays. That's, that's my, doing absolutely nothing when I can't have five. But yeah. I can see a pro-team there. So I'm picking him up in no time at all. No, it's, it's just one of those things. But you know, he's one I'd like to keep just because it is a game, it's a name who we know we're going to, we'd have all season. Yeah. Obviously Teddy, I think it's going to be in, it's going to be a more of a regular in Wales camps. Yeah. There are many others. You know, we could probably go for the whole squad. We want to keep everyone. Obviously it's not possible. Yeah. But we'll, yeah, we'll stick with, we'll stick with them. So obviously we don't want to be here all night discussing why we want to keep each and every single player in the squad. I'll happily be here all night discussing. Say that, my homes on a night. I've got nothing else to do this evening. Yeah. There's now a four hour podcast on. Yeah. Sorry guys. Yeah. So that's, that's squad stuff. Any more news? Other than Balotell being out for a bit, bit more time, which is hardly surprising, but that is the case really, that he's not going to make an appearance before Six Nations. And yeah, that is a... He's been to Six Nations and broken before. I've heard this one before. Yeah. This is a little bit of a replay, the record of Balotell, then he comes back for Six Nations, is brought back and then gets injured again. Hopefully he's, hopefully he's taken care of and he's made sure that he's fit when he does play. And then he gets back and gets back to full fitness properly, which I'm sure everyone will do. Good, good strength and condition, it seems, of both Cardiff and Wales. But he's, yeah, it's sad to see that he's going to be a bit longer for Wales purposes and for Cardiff, but hopefully he comes back stronger in the end of this season or next season. Some good injury news though. Seems like Thomas Young's going to be available for this weekend. So that would be nice having, trying to, you know, rebuilding a bit of that back row depth, which particularly at seven, we were, we were starting to go a little bit, you know, I think after Lucas de la Rua, I think I was going to have to lace up boots. Yeah, there was that week where you said, oh, it's definitely going to be Alex Mann this week and it turned out to be Lucas de la Rua now. But yeah, that back row is now, I saw someone say, the most Cardiff or Cardiff back rows of Ellis Jenkins, Thomas Young, both of them in the bottom back three. But yeah, I put one of them on the bench and have, and get Alex Mann in the back. He's had a nice break now. Yeah, I think that's just how much I've, how much I've loved seeing him play this season. Yeah, he fully deserves his place, getting all the credit he deserves. But yeah, the Thomas Young situation is great to hear because he's, he was so good last season. He was incredible and quite rightly, some people were very miffed that he wasn't part of the Wales set up because he was one of, if not the standout seven in Wales last season, apart from Jack. So I really hope he gets back to that sort of form because if he can, he's brilliant on his day. And especially with the weather hopefully turning, he'll love the fast tracks that are coming, especially when Karl head out to South Africa. Yeah, absolutely. I said we'll go, well, I said we'll make a departure from the URC. I said, so we're going to actually switch, switch, switch agendas. So we're going to talk a little bit about the Celtic Challenge, so the women's teams. I'll be up front. I only know, I only watched the derby between Thunder and Lightning. I mean, and it did lead to the jokes of Lightning scoring first and me and Hugh Griffin trying to count, seeing how long it'd be to work out how far away Thunder was. Yeah, so obviously we've got two seasons, we've got two teams this season, after only having one sort of United one. So we've got Bristol Thunder, I have to leave, I've butchered the Welsh, please tell me you're the one who can actually speak our mother tongue. I haven't gone with Bristol, have I? Bristol Thunder, yeah. Bristol Thunder, who I'm sort of playing red and black based in Parker Scarlet. So they're not a Scarlet, Fospreys amalgamation because both of them would hate that as much as saying, why say a Lightning through playing blue and amber or an amalgamation of Cardiff and dragons. But it's basically, it's they found a way to do it geographically. They've got basically almost a west side and then east side, even though it's from the same pool of players, and they're just leaving the lot. So from the look of it, Thunder had the likes of Natalia John, Alicia Butchers, Graham Pearson, any Welsh international who wasn't actively playing in the power. And then Lightning was fought, although we had a couple of internationals more up and coming. I mean, it's not as simple as that, obviously, but it's quite nice to see that first game of the season, we absolutely topped them. But yeah, massive surprise. I think you said Alicia Butchers, who I don't know if she's finished the honeymoon yet, but she's still very firmly bristlebeard. But Alex Callender was in Thunder. But yeah, Gwalior are flying and it's really surprising because I looked at those two packs, I saw Sean and Harry's Alex Callender, Natalia John, as you mentioned, you've got Meg Webb in the back. I thought, now there's a strong side of Bristol Thunder that's put out. I thought they'd run out victorious, but now I met Kath running the show, driving the team around the pitch. You've got Kath Richards becoming an absolute star on the wing with two brilliant tries against Bristol Thunder. Carried it on last week against Glasgow as well, scoring again. You've got Molly Reardon at hooker, who is a committed scrub half as far as time away. I was convinced she was a scrub half and I genuinely remember emailing someone saying, we're sure that she's playing hooker because she's definitely a scrub half as far as I knew. But yeah, seems to be converted there. Then got some like old, you know, anyone that's followed. Seems like Ponta Kleen over the years and there were plenty of Akira Deeks on the bench. She's an absolute live wire of scrub half of Ponta Kleen. But she's been closing things out really well. You've got the likes of Brian and King. So Gwalior have been flying. Gwen on Hopkins on the weekend though. Two tries brilliant against Glasgow. One of the tries I've seen where she cuts a brilliant line off the line out. She was in the under 18s, was it last year? So what a development she is and what a prospect she's going to be. It's a really good thing for Johan Cunningham because this was supposed to be two purposes, wasn't it really? You've got the one purpose, which is to give play time to the players that aren't playing much and those Worcester Warriors girls that have lost their contract. So that's KJV, Alex Callender, Seanan Harris without a club, Maguire hasn't been playing with Bristol Bears. And then you've got these young players like Nel Netskas, like Cat Richards, Mairi de Netal, who are getting an opportunity to show what they can do with Gwalior Lightning. And perhaps this was meant to be the more developmental team, but they have hit the ground running. They've obviously, maybe played with each other a bit more, I don't know, but they are flying at the moment. The win on the weekend against Glasgow, 36 points to 19. They're running six tries, which, you know, by any estimation is a good performance. So yeah, they're flying by and hopefully, well, they'll be pretty confident with three games to go that they can get a place in the knockout games and hopefully win the competition, which would be one hell of an achievement for them going into what some of them will be hoping will be their first Six Nations on the back of this after some brilliant performances. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait for the ticket. Well, I said all the all the tickets from the middle tier. I checked because I needed to buy some. All the tickets in the middle tier, where you actually can pick a seat to fit. They've all gone. So it's just it's just unreserved seating in the lower tier now. That seems to be available. So if you do want to watch that Wales Italy game, get the tickets in fast. If like me, you're going, you can make it a doubleheader and watch Wales win and then pop next door to see us play Edinburgh. Yeah, I think, yeah, that could be two class games. That's not a bad weekend of rugby. Well, not a bad weekend, not a bad day. Yeah, I said, I don't know, it might depend on the results. It might take me the rest of the weekend to recover. On another note, sorry, I'm going away with getting away with that, but it's so good to have this competition now because it's not just Worcester Warriors collapsing during the year. It's also the situation with not many of the girls are getting that much game time in the English press at the moment. They're not getting that much time playing. So when it comes to Six Nations time, Ewan Cunningham, like any coach, will want players that are playing. And, you know, we've seen that in the football. I know this is a rugby pod, but Rob Page has constantly talked about wanting his players to be playing at any level and playing, obviously, playing at the highest level possible, but if not, getting regular games and performing well. Well, these girls now, for Wiley Lightning, are performing well. So they are throwing their hands up for an opportunity for international honours and, yeah, showing what they can do and showing their stuff against and doing it when they can also travel to Musgrave Park or travel to Scotland as well and have the opportunity to play at grounds they probably have never played at before and have the opportunity of showing themselves against different nationalities and different styles of play. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it can only be better done. And, you know, getting this established league and it almost, you know, it feels like they're trying to not fall into the same traps that's happened in the men's game, the way they're trying to build it up gradually. You know, so we had one team last season, this season we've got two, we're going to see how that runs, make sure it's funding, get it there. You know, they decided to base it in two dedicated rugby stadiums in Cap and Parc de Scarlet, so they know, you know, they know when there's going to be available weekends. I know they did it for a doubleheader for the Dragons Scarlet game. Before that, they had the Gwalior Thunder versus Lightning beforehand, but on Tuesday. But, you know, it's nice. For anyone who's interested in watching these games, they are available for free on Rugby Pass TV. You just have to sign, log in with an email address and then you've got that plus lots of other games. Basically, if a game's being televised in rugby and it's not on a UK broadcaster, chances are it's going to be on Rugby Pass TV. So they've got World Cup replays and, you know, I think the Rugby Europe Championship might be migrating over to there from Rugby Europe TV. And a few other things, you can watch some bizarre games like Brazil, USA. Yeah, so that's just a little plug to our overlords at World Rugby. I will also say in both current games so far have been streamed on the BBC website. They have been streamed on the BBC website. Is it the same feed that's going through Rugby Pass TV? The Scottish games have been done by BBC Scotland. I'm not 100% sure that it would be done, but it was Steve Howell on Codecoms with, oh, his name's going up my head. So sorry, yeah, for Leeds Comms on, for the Derby. But yeah, that was on BBC. But yeah, that was just sort of that as, yeah, that's where I was watching it. And yeah, hopefully while they can continue their good form into the remainder of that season. Yeah, absolutely. Stepping down the level. Do you want to do a quick round up of things, of what's going on in the Premiership? Yeah, what's going on in the Indigo Prem, which is, you've basically got Sandov, Frilukh in a situation where they're going to win or top the table. They look pretty comfortable in top four. They're almost, I think, 21 points ahead of Fick, which is a pretty strong place to be at this stage of the season. And then you've also got Evu and Newport in that top four. And then there's an absolute bum fight for fourth, which I describe. You've got all three Cardiff representative teams there, which are Cardiff, Pontypridd and Merthyr in that fight. Merthyr went down to a surprise loss last time out against Neath. They'd be disappointed with that one, Neath getting only their second win of the season, second win on the balance as well, which is great for them, obviously, but not ideal result for Merthyr. Pontypridd are probably ruining a couple of missed opportunities. They've lost, I think, a couple of their last games by a point. Josh Phillips went really close to winning that one last time out. I think it's Tlandevery, actually, who are losing by a point. Tlandevery is not a bad result by any means, especially against Tlandevery, but they will be ruining that loss. And Cardiff are looking more comfortable as the season's going on, which is not a surprise considering the turnover of players they had in the off-season, the amount of players they lost to Cardiff, the regional side for a start. We need to talk about Dan, Alex Mann, Evan Daniel and co. But the fact of the matter is it's going to be an absolute royal battle for that fourth place because I couldn't pick it at the moment. I think the favourites are Cardiff because they've been there and done that. Pontypridd are starting to... I wouldn't say the wheels have come off, but they're definitely starting to rock a bit following their brilliant start to the season. And then Aberavon are picking up a bit, actually, after a rock start of the season. But two teams going into contrasting directions where Cardiff have been gradually improving. I think they've looked the most consistent side so far this season, so should hopefully grab their place in the top four along with Standard 3 and what looks to be like Evervale and Newport. Thanks for that update. Obviously, we'll keep you in touch for that. If you want us to cover any more of the teams in the Cardiff area, just drop us a line on our Twitter at Cardiff underscore Central. You can also contact me at Worthy Harley. I did not pick that, that's the Twitter generated one. You'll also find us on our Facebook page. And I am, I believe both, I certainly am, I'm not sure if you've joined just yet, Cohen, but I'm on Blue Sky at harley.worthy.bluesky.blahblahblahblah. I'll, we'll pop links and stuff, links in my bio anyway. If you want to talk, if you want to contact us, give us any other feedback, it does really help. That's interactions. And obviously you can see, you can watch this podcast if you want to see our beautiful faces on WRAP podcasts on YouTube. We are close to, or we've just broken the 100 subscriber mark actually. Obviously, the more subscribers we get, the more YouTube actually lets us get some of that money through all the adverts you watch around those videos, which, you know, helps us keep everything running. So that's all our shameless plugs out the way. So shall we look forward to the next, you know, Banter Season Part 2 in the Heineken Cup, where we are going to be hosting Harlequins once again in the Champions Cup. So potential homecomings for Jared Evans and Dylan Lewis if they are fit and selected. I think Jared might be injured, might have picked up a knock. Is Jared out? I don't know if he's... Is he definitely out? Pretty much, yeah. Turning up then. Yeah, no, Jared was on crutches. What was the game they all turned back for? Was it Boxing Day? Yeah, so he's... I don't think he's available. So yeah, Dylan's been playing his part for Harlequins. I'd expect him to be on a bench. He doesn't always start for them due to their strength and size. But yeah, you know, it's nice to see them coming back. It would have been even better if Jared was coming as well. But I'm really excited by this game. It's similar to the Bath game, really, isn't it? It's copy and paste. There's two teams that want to attack from everywhere. Harlequins have this thing called Marcus Smith that everyone likes to go on and on and on about. But I just... I think this is a good match-up for Cardiff. I really do. I don't think this is the Harlequin side, despite flying in the English Premiership the second at the moment. I don't think it's the Harlequin side that are going to bully Cardiff. So you're looking at two sides that want to throw the ball around, want to play a bit of rugby, want to be entertainers. I fancy Cardiff win. And I haven't said that that many times this season with that much confidence. I just don't know what it is. I think I looked at all four of the Champions Cup games and I thought this was the one that Cardiff had the most chance of winning before we started. So, yeah, I still think that. Despite Harlequins being in good form, I watched them against Gloucester a couple of weeks ago and they were very good. The scorelines suggest Gloucester were more in the game than they were. But Mark Smith was superb man of the match. Danny Kaye was superb. But I don't think this is a pack that are going to dominate. So it's about trying to limit those halfbacks' influence, which is easier said than done, though. I don't know, Harley, if you've got any words of wisdom on how to stop halfbacks with their talent. I think it's usually a similar blueprint, is that you just don't give them the time or space or you set up traps that make Marcus Smith want to run into a hole and you get in there or you try and force them on the back. But you try and, you know, on the floor, you disrupt Danny Kaye's service so neither of them have the time they want to do their thing. You know, it's all the usual basics. But I think as long as we can get parity, if not slight dominance at the front, you know, if we're not, you know, we don't need to get... I'm not talking about, you know, making sure we get a penalty from every scrum going 60 meters with every driving line now. You know, as long as we've got a good back, you know, something for our backs to play against. I don't think that's going to be key is having De Beers fit. Because as we discussed earlier in the pod, we haven't really had the time to get anyone in. And for me, Ben Thomas isn't really... To me, I think he's becoming more and more that playmaking back at 12. You know, he's, you know, then he is an out-and-out fly half, or, you know, an actual organiser in the attack. He's someone who you can have step in at first just to either make the right option or slightly void right. He can... he's got the skills to put in that kick and put in that pass. But maybe there's someone else controlling the game, you know, properly controlling the game. I think Thomas is going to be shit hot. I think, you know, the battle between him and Danny Kaye's could be excellent. Tyrone Green versus Cam Winnett, I think it's going to be excellent, I believe. Last time Cam Winnett played against Harley Quinns, he, for me, he was one of my players of the match. You know, I think... I think at the stoop, we only lost by three and it was a... you know, a hell of a close game. James Botham, want to prove once again he's better than Alex Dunbrand. He is. Yeah, I know, but sometimes you just got to show it because people forget. Wycombe and Kenny Martin prove the same. Oh, Big Mac. Big Mac has nothing to prove here. We are trying to wind up as many people as possible here, aren't we, at this point? Yeah. Why not? No, I... You bring up the back row though, that is the crucial one, isn't it? You know, it's maybe not Paul Ringer-esque to take the ten out, but it is a job of slowing down the ball, it is a job of giving them no time, you know. That... Marcus Smith, probably the closest comparison card to play the gate so far. Johan Lloyd, is that fair, would you say, in the capability as a running ten? And you saw... The only running game, yes, but I would say Marcus Smith is far more obviously a ten than Johan is, I think. I mean, I feel like we just lost out to Scarlett's bullshit on more than Johan actually, or, you know, he's in third sector there. But yeah, you know, he is quite elusive as a runner. He's... His kicking aim has gained control and gets better every time he plays. You know, he is... You know, he's been... You know, he started off as a bit of a mean, you know, running goose step and not much else, but now he's actually becoming a far more rounded player than some people give him credit for. Yeah, he... Watanabe lost the game a couple of weeks ago. He had a brilliant 50-22 where he basically grubbed it through. It was brilliant. But I just... The point I was going to make is the amount of time Cardiff gave Johan Lloyd versus the amount of time they have to give him. Mark said they have to stop the time. They have to pressure him. They have to just find a way of putting pressure on him without leaving gaps, which I know many great defences have tried and failed before. But that's... Yeah, he's... It's going to be an interesting match-up. There are so many good match-ups to talk about, whether it be that 10-metre Tinas seeing how he can go against Marcus, whether it be Scrum Half, Thomas against Danny Keir. That's always been a tasty battle. It's going to be a brilliant one now. But I... Whether it be... I just spotted Ben Thomas against Esther Hazen. That's going to be an interesting... Yeah, about that, because obviously I think Andrew Ford put it in as a question to us, wasn't it, to pick our 15 for this game this weekend. Would you be tempted to go with Halle-Halle with that added bit of bulk to deal with Esther Hazen in 12? I'm in two schools of mind, because I feel like Ben Thomas is playing so well that it feels like I don't feel like he deserves to be dropped. I mean, the thing is, I mean, because we don't know if the beer is fit, I don't think he's been ruled out. But I don't think it's like they said he's definitely okay. At least I haven't seen anything like that. So it could be that we may end up seeing Ben Thomas, Halle-Halle and Lilo. Probably not what I'd like to see. Now, I think to me, I'd keep Ben Thomas at 12, Lilo at 13, the beer at 10. I think he may go with that. I do see the point of Halle-Halle at 12, and I could see having that extra bit of bulk and physicality would help particularly getting through, you know, what is the Quinn's defence, that he's pretty all right. You know, it's a decent defence. I think one thing I'll be careful is that Nick Davids misses out tries from anywhere, and he seems to summon balls to him. So I think whoever's going to be opposite him on the wing, you know, you've got to have good defence. I think it's, you know, you've got to have Josh Adams that, you know, outmarking him, you know, probably one of the best defensive wingers in Wales, if not the UK. Again, keep Grady at 11, bulk size, you know. You know, I can't have been doing the same with Grady and Lilo, where, you know, Lilo will pop out into the wing and Grady comes in the 13 channel and they'll switch defence and attack, depending on the picture. So I'm quite happy with that. Cam Winnick starts at fullback for me. Simple as that. You know, as good as Beaton's been, Cam Winnick's proven, you know, he's our number one. Yeah, I agree. I suppose the only other question is back row, especially with Thomas back, but I think you've highlighted a little bit there that you think Alex Mann needs to start at six. So it's about the other two, really, isn't it? Who's your seven? Who's your eight? So it's an interesting one, because I think as well, it'll depend on type side and bench as well. Yeah. So, you know, I'd be tempted, I've attempted to start someone on the front row. You know, Damatrescu, Belcher, Azarate, you know, have Carre. Either Evan or Ethan, whichever one, the replacements off the arc, I think they're both excellent off the bench. And then Reece Littwick, I think has done nothing to shift himself from that bench spot. And then second row, probably, I'm probably thinking Teddy, maybe start Teddy Sebb, bring Thornton, or starting Thornton and bringing Sebb on for impact is my... I think I'd start Teddy Sebb, because I don't think I've got Tamani in my team. I think I've got Tamani on the bench. Yeah, I'd probably take, I'd have Tamani as sort of on the second row back at eight. Yeah, I just, I personally will go, I was going to say, I was going to go Mann, Jenkins, both of them as my back row. So therefore I've got Tamani as a bench player, which isn't bad. I was there thinking, do we do, do you go for, I think, whether you go 5-3 or 6-2, I don't think you'll go 6-2 again. But I'd say probably if you went Thornton, Tamani on the bench, and then you either bring in like a Mackenzie Martin or a Lucas de la Rua. Yeah. And you have them as your bench option. Yeah. Because, I mean, the joy of having Ben Thomas at 12 is it does make the 6-2 bench a lot easier to do. And with Ben Thomas at 12 and Grady on wing, it, you know, that midfield just shuttles and it's quite nice. And both, and Ethan as well. We've also played 10-2. Yeah, if you've got Ethan as well. Yeah, if you put, have Ethan, you know, so you have Ben Thomas to start Halle-Holle on the bench with Bevan. Rick, do you think that's everything you've covered? Yeah, I agree. But I do find some jockeys in this play. I think it's going to be 5-3. I think it's going to be 5-3 and you're going to have Thornton, Thornton, Tamani. Yeah, I also think Halle-Holle's going to start. I can only base it on what they did against Scarlett, where you've got Johnny Williams that picked Halle-Holle, where they, whenever, you know, being 12, they have tended to go with Halle-Holle. So I do wonder if that's a bit of thought process. But not against Scarlett. Yeah, but, you know, I'm just going on. The one thing is, yeah, I feel like Ben Thomas is doing so well and I don't want to shift him. That's the only thought. Yeah, good. What's your prediction for Scarlett? I think Cardiff are going to win. I think Cardiff by 7. There we go. I'm going to go, I think on the wrap, I can't remember, we don't write down the European game, so you know, you kind of hold me to it. I think probably, just based purely on the, you know, how things like Martin Smith, Danny Kaye, I don't know if Joe Marler's fit or not. The one thing Queens have to worry about is I think some of their second rows are a bit, weirdly, almost too heavy. So they're losing a lot of, they're losing a lot of like line-outs ability with them. Because it's, you know, it's like they're just basically herds and launch-free. But that means then that the pack is a bit more, a bit more grunt. If they, even if it means losing a little bit of line-outs. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going Queens by 4. By very much hope I'm wrong. That's just me being the actual negative one. I want this documented, by the way. Anyone listening, to note me being positive. I don't know if it's 2024, but New Year, New Me, and me being the positive one, and Harley being the negative one for a card result. When I got heavily criticised for the week that Harley wasn't here for my bat prediction. So I just want that on the record that I said bat would win, Harley heavily criticised me, and now he's flipped the tables. I never criticised you for the bat, for picking a bat win. Did you not? I agree. Anyway, as they now say, I've got the receipt. But yeah, I do fancy it. And hopefully everyone can make it a good spectacle. I know it's a late freezing evening, but I think it'd be good when I'm working on the game, albeit virtually. So I'm excited to see that, and hopefully it goes well. Yeah, again, I'll be right. Seems like it's so much to sell out if it hasn't officially sold out yet. I think last I heard there was 200 tickets left in the North Terrace. I think I heard a sell out, but I may be wrong. Yeah, I mean, it might have already been a sell out. I mean, I don't know if they've gone for the extra tickets again, which, you know, if that happens, what was it? That would be the third time it's happened with one of them. The Dragons being a sell out, that would be excellent. Hopefully we can continue it through the last few home games in the year as well. And if anyone's got a lorry or a bus to park it somewhere around there, then feel free. If you're on one of the West Geats Street flats, if you want to just open up your home for tickets, you know, I imagine you'd make some money that way as well. Yeah, I partly want to piss off John Barkley, which is someone else I want to tick off the list now, seemingly. But no, I did find it quite funny. But yeah, it's going to be a great spectacle and should be a brilliant game. There we go. They've put the knockers on it, but yeah, it should be a brilliant game team too. So I don't want to face great rugby. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As I said, I'm looking forward to it. It is Saturday at eight o'clock, I believe. Yeah, it's Friday. I would have stayed in Cardiff or travelled back down to Wales, but unfortunately it's not. So yeah, I believe that's pretty much everything. I have just one thing to, just a sort of a plug on behalf of our friends over at CF Tendra. Yeah, so yeah, crack on. There was only one other thing ahead of next week, but we can run through that quickly afterwards. So as you remember, we've had Lynn on the programme many, many weeks ago now. One of the things we were discussing is the supporters representative to the Cardiff board. So he is going to be hosting a Q&A on with, well, it's been hosted by CF Ten. He'll be there to answer all our questions on January 30th for members of the CF Ten Trust. So if you aren't already, I recommend you sign up. It's £1 for life, which is the cheapest membership you'll ever find ever. Yeah, you just put in your email, send out a newsletter. If you're having any problems, please contact the guys at CF Ten Trust on all their socials at CF Ten Trust. If they're not answering, then look for Lynn Bannister and Stephen Coombs, both brilliant guests on the podcast. Or if you want to message us, I can put you in touch with the right, or Colin can put you in touch with the right people. It's just a great chance, you know, for us as fans to talk, particularly in the lead up to the general meeting where we're going to have the approval votes for the Cardiff takeover and everything. Yeah, I think that's everything. I think that's all I need to say about that one. Yeah. Yeah, anyone wants to get involved, feel free to visit. The more people, the more views, the better, isn't it? Basically, the more views you get from them, the more rounded you can approach it as a club. Or region, sorry, in this case, I should say. Yeah, the only other thing I wanted to mention as it is Wales squad next Tuesday, next announcement, next week, mark the diaries, is who are the players that I like, we think are in the reckoning for Wales squad selection. I'll just rattle through this quickly, really, because I think there are a few definite that Harley and I probably will agree with, which, while we've mentioned a couple of them, a couple of times on the pod already, Domachowski, I think, is pretty much nailed on. He was pretty consistently second choice to do the World Cup, and I think he's shown, well, continued that form, if not improved on it this season already. Another one I'd mention is, obviously, Thomas Williams is pretty much a definite, not nailed on, again, second choice. Adams, Josh Adams will, regardless of whether he's going to be playing wing or fullback, will undoubtedly be an option on Grady. The other two I've got, as I think should be, if not are definites, Azzurrati, I think, one, he's gone on leaps and bounds from last season, that's my first point on it, and then, second of all, I think he will benefit from playing in Wales, whereas the three titans that are obviously part of the World Cup squad are not. I think someone like Thomas Francis has done it before, so Gatland would be confident with him, but like the likes of Henry Thomas and Dylan Lewis, haven't done that short turnaround from joining the squad to being part of the squad immediately, so I think Azzurrati's nailed on there, and Teddy Williams is the other one who, you know, we've been going on week on week about how great he's been, so I struggle to see how he doesn't get into the Wales squad. I don't know if... Yeah, I think on the Azzurrati point as well, is Gatland's going to want to do live scrum training when it's not on the follow weeks, and you're going to need at least two tightheads, and you're really looking at Azzurrati, well, I mean, Brown, but I mean, given his performance, and Delvey's probably not, and then you've got like the likes of Harry O'Connor and Sam Wainwright, I don't know what both the situation is, or if he even wants to be, so I mean, I think he's in a good, you know, he's in a very good position. I'd throw Fairbrother in there as well, because I do think he's been... Yeah, I think Fairbrother actually has been... Fairbrother has actually probably been one of the former tightheads in Wales, I'd say. To be fair, I mean, you're going to want a two, so I imagine one, if not both of them, are going to be involved in the squad at points, whether it is, you know, he goes for like four or five, I imagine he'll probably go for like four front rows, and so it'll probably be only two of Henry Thomas, Dylan Lewis, and Thomas Francis. I don't think, I mean, keeping a brief eye on the Montpelier team sheets, I haven't really seen Henry Thomas playing, so that might count against him, because I'm pretty sure Thomas Francis has been playing for Provence, but how much Gatland sees it, because obviously we don't see the pro d'etat here, which is it, so if there is anyone who does anything with broadcast rights, if you can get a pro d'etat contract, that'd be great. I'd be very much looking to watch some eye-gouging. There is an additional thing of that, which is Thomas Francis has been there, done that for several years now. That's the thing as well, I think he knows that system in and out, and he knows exactly what Gatland wants out of him. Yeah, and then I think that, unless there are any more definites you think that should be included there, I think with any, there may be some probables. I think now we're on the people who we think, you know, should have done enough to get in. Yeah, so two that jump to mind, and it's not going to be any surprise Alex Manning can win it, that we're mentioning as people we think should be there. I think Alex Mann might be in a battle with both of them for a slot in the Wales Cup. That's the only thing that I think could count against him is whether or not that turns into a 50-50 battle, and can win it. Maybe, as we mentioned earlier, might be in a battle with Kyan and so likewise. But I think both deserve their place. I don't know how hard he sees it, but you seem to think that maybe both of them and Mann can get in. It's just thinking about who's injured, the players who aren't available, because obviously, you know, Gatlin likes that line-out option six, especially if you can have a line-out option eight as well, which obviously both of them isn't really. You know, he's definitely, you know, he's the player you tend to have out in the midfield or your tailgater on the line-out, or, you know, the plus one. But both team pump trees out, and Kroos Trundle hasn't been seen in extra for a while, whether Gatlin feels confident you can get him up to speed, but again, has that knock-around issue. That might open up a spot for Mann, because, you know, he is that line-out six, right? He's not an out-and-out, he's not a Harry Bidlock, but that's not necessarily as important in a Six Nations squad, where you can have a bit more of an inflated squad. And then from there, I think both of them is a potential eight option, but also with the loss of Jack Morgan, you know, they're both players who can cover the back row, very good ball carriers, and they're working the ball and their defence are excellent. So I think you could squeeze him in, but it depends where he goes with other players. Obviously, back row is not something we're short. I mean, especially the rumours of Rhys Reddick being brought into the squad, there's a sort of experienced head. For me, I think if you want someone who can cover the back row, is an experienced head, is called Josh Turnbull. If you really want to do that, I'd probably go, I mean, you've got Alice Jenkins as well, who's a 6'7". And again, it's someone who's captain where I've been, they've done that. Is he up to international standards since the injury? I don't know. If he went in there for the, you know, to help with the squad. I'd be much more comfortable seeing Alice Jenkins than either Turnbull or Reddick. I think Turnbull himself has said, maybe last year that he thought his international days were past him. I've got to be honest, we're at the start of a new cycle. I'd be really frustrated if I saw a Rhys Reddick at 33 or a Turnbull, whatever he is, in those squads. Because, yeah, all for experience and everything, but Alex Mann deserves his place. Both of them is a brilliant player. I kind of get the Reddick thing. I don't quite get on board with it, I must be honest. But yeah, Jenkins is an outside bet, but he's in a bum fight where he's got a lot of experience. He's in a bum fight with a seven from pretty much every region for that other slot, along with Tommy Reffel, when you've got your McLeods, you've got your Harry Deeves, you've got your Bashams as well. So it could be any of those to get that other seven spot. I know we're mainly focusing on Cardiff, but Harrison Keddie is a name who I think, I think is worth the look at, purely because of how well he's played for the Dragons. You know, I think he was the one, he was one of the few who was making, made himself look respectable during that Cardiff game and was excellent against Scarletts. Yeah, he just seems to always get overlooked, doesn't he? That's the thing with Keddie. So that's why I probably have overlooked him. Myself, once players start being overlooked several times, you start automatically overlooking them. The other, well, there is one bolt up because obviously with five thousand injury, there is a space opening effort, number eight. And look, I don't, Wainwright's probably nailed on to start of eight, therefore. But then who's the back of eight? Morgan Morris has been overlooked almost every season. And I think it's fair to say he has been, if there's ever a guy who deserves to have the chance, it should be Morgan Morris. But if he's going to be overlooked again, you're looking at the likes of Mackenzie Martin or Morgan Morse to be called up as out and out number eight. And so I don't think that, do I think it's ridiculous to call up an 18-year-old or a 20-year-old number eight to international world? That's what happened with Faletau. So I don't know. But yeah, they've both got an outside chance, I think, of getting into their squads. I'd like to say Seb has an outside chance as well. He mentioned the line-up six option. Yeah. And also can play eight. It's a bit of a, I think he's unlikely because of the form of Sender and Teddy along with David Jenkins. But I think he's got an outside chance. Yeah, I think the only other name I'd say is a possible, you know, he's a possible more than the probable is Ben Thomas. Because I do think he has been playing really well. I don't think, you know, centres us to say, I do think we're struggling with that. I don't think, you know, Maxwell and I don't think it has the chance to break through. I don't know if he's still in Gatlin's mind. But, you know, because he's not really getting games on at Gloucester. Johnny Williams, as much as I know the people who love him, absolutely love him and say, you know, point out all the good things. He just doesn't do it for me at the international level. And, you know, I'd say he's probably closer, like to like to Tompkins. But, you know, more of the distribution, you know, in terms of distribution, you know, the deck, the sort of rugby intelligence sort of thing. That's more than anything. And having that kicking option, that extra kicking option is, you know, going to help ease pressure off whoever's going to be starting over, whether it's Gareth Davis, Hardy or Thomas. Because it's likely going to be Castello starting 10. Realistically, because there's not really anyone. But then you've got Ben Thomas, who's name checked as a 10 option. So I think he's got a chance of getting into the squad. I'm not saying he definitely will. I don't think, I'm not saying, you know, you know, you know, not to say that I'd say Alex Mann and Teddy and Mason have, you know, nailed their colours to the mast of getting in the squad. I'd say Ben Thomas is probably worth a look, because I don't think he got a fair shout with it, with him to pay back. So it'd be nice to see him have another go. I think he'd have loved to have been in the conversation, but unfortunately his injuries have gotten the better of him once again. Yeah, sorry, I was going to say with Ben, I think it's a case of maybe third choice 12, third choice 10 sort of scenario with him, or second choice 10 maybe, that he could get in into that squad. Because yeah, I'd be remiss of me not to mention Kieran Williams, because I have banged that drum several times about my being a fan of his, but yeah. I do think Kieran Williams is, that's the thing. And I do think he, you know, he's seasoned it. I mean, if I was going to call an uncapped 12, Eddie James has really impressed me when he's played for Scarlets. And actually, I'd like to see Joe Roberts in the squad as well. I mean, I know he's trying to focus me on Cardiff, but it's very hard when you talk Wales, not to talk about Cardiff. Yeah, agreed. The last name is obviously Rhys Carrow, but as mentioned, the slap in the face last time and May suggested that is unlikely. Yeah, I'm not so sure. I said, I think the prop, I said, Lou said props actually. Weirdly, we've got, we've got debts, whether it's good debts, I'm still not sure yet. And we spoke of Belcher earlier, obviously, as an outside bet as well. Yeah, I'd say you'd be a very outside bet, because I think, again, hooker, we're, we're quite stocked. That is just that, it's just that third position in the scrum, we're struggling with. Yeah, and that ties everything over. We'll see in whatever it is, six days time, or whenever you listen to this, however many days before D-Day. Thanks very much. Well, I don't know why I'm starting the closing up now. You can do it, yeah. I'll do the opening, you can close. Thanks very much, Harley, for joining me for today's pod. You can follow us on socials, Harley, which is, I only know on Twitter, or, or, you know, that the app, you know, I'm not, you bought that whilst Twitter, I won't call it its proper name, because screw it. Well, I'll pass another person off to finish the night. So we're at Cardiff underscore central, you can also find us on Facebook and Instagram. Although I do not check it, because I don't know how it works. It's weird witchcraft. I think Harwin occasionally looks at it. But yeah, you're better off messaging us either through Facebook, or on Twitter. Yeah, we're also on YouTube on appratpodcast, which annoys me because it's podcast podcast. But that, you know, that, you know, Lee just tells me to shut up. So yeah, so feel, so please like, subscribe, comment on the videos and our posts, you know, more, more interaction, the more, more we know we're, we're doing the right thing, whether it's constructive criticism, or just saying what you think we've done a great job. Cheers. Yep. Yeah. Feel free to listen to future pods. Hopefully we'll have some guests on in the near future. And yeah, look out for Saturday. Hope to see you there. And enjoy, enjoy. Thank you for listening to the Cardiff Central podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps spread the word. You can find us on all usual social media channels, or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question is, rugby is always the answer. Bye.