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EP18|Beyond The Brink | Interview with Leigh - A Survivor's Story Today we have a special guest, Leigh who survived sexual abuse beginning at the age of 6. This brave young woman shares her story to bring awareness & personal healing. Leigh explains how children can be abused without other family members knowing and shares some signs that something is wrong. She has a message of HOPE for victims of child sex abuse & wants others to know that it is not your fault & you CAN heal.
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EP18|Beyond The Brink | Interview with Leigh - A Survivor's Story Today we have a special guest, Leigh who survived sexual abuse beginning at the age of 6. This brave young woman shares her story to bring awareness & personal healing. Leigh explains how children can be abused without other family members knowing and shares some signs that something is wrong. She has a message of HOPE for victims of child sex abuse & wants others to know that it is not your fault & you CAN heal.
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The hosts of the show discuss the release of a movie called "The Sound of Freedom" that exposes a global child sex trafficking ring. They recommend watching the movie and mention a special guest who shares her story of surviving sexual abuse starting at the age of six. The guest talks about the signs of abuse and how it can go unnoticed by other family members. They also mention a news report about a child sex ring operation being rescued by Navy SEALs in San Francisco. The guest then shares her personal story of abuse and the lack of support she received from the police. Her mother eventually believed her and got her into counseling. Welcome to Beyond the Brink, the show that dives headfirst into exploring global events that are pushing people to their limits and driving them to the brink of change. My name is Christy and I'm here with Melissa. Good morning. Well, we're going to continue our conversation, our discussion about saving the children. If you missed last week's video, you're going to want to check that up and key up for what's going to be discussed today. Now on Monday, July the 2nd, the movie The Sound of Freedom, which exposes the global child sex trafficking ring, was just released and it played in most movie theaters around the country. So if you haven't seen that yet, I recommend that you do. I saw it on Monday, the day that it came out, and it's a heartbreaker. Today we have a special guest who survived sexual abuse beginning at the age of six and it continued on into her early adulthood and it left her with many emotional scars, painful scars. And today I just want to just acknowledge her and congratulate her for her willingness to come out and share her story. It takes tremendous strength and courage to do that and she's doing so to bring awareness and also maybe to provide some personal healing for herself. And she explains how children could be abused without other family members knowing and the signs that something's wrong. She's going to share with that, like what does that look like to the parent that might just be questioning some odd behavior. Now before we kick things off, if you're tuning in on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, show us some love with a thumbs up, a like, a subscribe, a rumble. We'd greatly appreciate it so our channel can grow. And to those of you who are listening on the radio, we've got you covered too. You can catch up on all of our previous episodes by visiting our website at VidaBroadcastNetwork.com. That's VidaBroadcastNetwork.com and you can find us on most of your favorite podcast sites by using the handle at Vida Broadcast. Now let's dive in. We're going to start with the Sound of Freedom trailer and then we're going to bring out our guests. Okay. I'm going to get this queued up, so here we go, folks. How does that make you feel? Giving a child his freedom? So good. And you have been at this for 12 years. Why are you doing it? Because God's children are not for sale. It is the fastest growing international crime network that the world has ever seen. For homeland security, you know we can't go off rescuing Honduran kids in Colombia. This job tears you to pieces. And this is my one chance to put those pieces back together. Yes, now you have failed to bring me one real world lead. It's over, Tim. Close up and come back home. So you quit your job and you go and rescue those kids. I'm sorry to call back so late. It's all revelatory. No one goes in. What if this was your daughter? So, she's gone. Hear that? That's the sound of freedom. Sound of Freedom is one of those films that can legitimately change this world. So we want to ignite a fire in audiences and open their eyes to the dark reality of millions of children that need our help. Let's make this film a historic event and a start at the end of child trafficking. Theaters across this country are already selling out. Pre-order your tickets today and you can send the message that God's children are no longer for sale. And there were a lot of people there. You know, Melissa, I didn't share with you that in San Francisco, this is not widely reported. This was in an Israeli news organization that brought this out, that there were a number of barges located in the San Francisco Bay. And within those barges were a child sex ring operation going on. And the Navy SEALs rescued those children. I just find it reprehensible that we have not been told about this. It had to come from a foreign news site. But, yeah. It really makes you wonder. Yeah. Well, I can't even watch that without, you know. I'll tell you. It's an emotional topic for sure. Yeah. It's so important that we talk about it and we acknowledge what's happening. Hey, when you go see the movie, it's not for the week at all. And be willing to have your heart broken and have your stomach up in your throat because and you come out there with resolve that you're not going to let this happen. I will say, too, it was very tastefully done. And there's no right. It's not sensationalizing it in any way. Oh, no, this is very well done. This is not this is not to make money. This is to make a point. Yep. So shall we bring out our guest? We shall. I will bring her in now. Welcome to the show, Lee. Hello, everyone. Hey, welcome. Just want to say to you just I just admire your courage to come on out and talk to the people. We don't know how many people are listening, but I'm sure that your message is going to touch somebody. And just touching one person is it has a butterfly effect. And it will just multiply and multiply and help others that need to hear your message. I just want to thank you and applaud you for that. Lee, before we got went on air today, you were talking about how this this this journey, this life journey, horrible experience started for you at age six. Would you like to tell us how that began and and just take it away and tell your story, please? Okay. Thank you. So I was six years old when my mom met a man. And at the time, she was a single mom of three kids. And, you know, what I remember, she was looking for a dad for her kids, looking for a mate, somebody to help her. And she met this neighbor man who was married at the time and ended up leaving her for my mom. But anyway, he moved into our home after some drama, initial neighborhood drama. And from what I remember at six years old, he started molesting me quite early on when he moved in. But from the time I was six to probably about eight-ish, my older siblings still lived at home. So it wasn't as frequent in the beginning as between like eight. It happened from six to 12, probably around age eight when he finally had me isolated. It started happening more frequently, just inappropriate things. My mom was working, you know, he was out of work. And, you know, so my mom went to work and he's like, hey, I'll stay home with Lee and take care of her, you know. And something that I'm constantly warning my single friends about, like, hey, a guy suddenly has interest in being your babysitter instead of being a stand-up guy and helping you by working himself. It's a red flag. But anyway, so that all happened at, it happened until 12 and then he stopped, I believe, because I started to look more like a woman. I was, I aged pretty quick. I was heavyset because after being molested, I started eating as a wall. So I developed rather quickly. I didn't stay the tiny little girl that I was. And so around 12, it stopped. But the psychological and the, you know, angry, abusive behavior still went on in the home. That was part of it. He was a very irrational, angry man. And finally, there was a point where he did something and it ended up hurting my mother. And at that point, at 14, I was just done. I mean, when I was little, he threatened my family. So, of course, I kept silent. I learned how to be a very good actress. I learned how to wear a mask so that people didn't know what was happening because not only was he making me feel like it was my fault, but then the aspect of your mom, your siblings, you know, hurt them. But at 14... Like physical harm? He would do physical harm to them? Yes. Yes. So by the time I was 14, he did something that ended up causing my mom physical harm. And I just lost it and I told her. And he had left the house right after the big explosion. And I'm telling her, Mom, you know, he's a terrible man and he's got to go. And she's like, I know, but, you know, I'm married. And, you know, and I said, Do you really want to know why I hate him? Because, Mama, I'm going to tell you what he did. And then I tell her. And I don't remember every moment of that. That's something I believe I blocked out quite a bit of that day just because it was so emotionally, in good ways and in bad ways. But so my brother remembers my mom hitting her knees and screaming, finding this out. And what I will say, you know, I pray to God that my mom believed me that minute. She threw him out. She called the police, you know, everything. She really she protected me as best as she could. Did the police do anything? No. So they did interview me. Okay. And so, I mean, and this is a little bit blunt, but I'm just going to tell the world because I fear that police don't really have a handle on how to investigate. Well, at least back then. But I had a female and a male officer in the room. And they basically said at one time, well, we gave him a polygraph and he passed half of it. And he told us that you actually were the one who initiated. And I'm sitting there as a 14-year-old girl in a police station thinking, you're telling me the man told you at six years old. I put on a nightie and seduced him. He's old. He's hairy. He's disgusting. You're telling me. I'm looking them in the face and I didn't say this. It's in my mind. You actually believe that I seduced him. Wow. And I just stood up and I said, you know what? I lied. I made it up. I walked out. My mom wasn't in the room. They didn't even have my mom in the room when they were telling me this. And I said, Mom, let's go. I'm done. I'm not going to do this because they don't believe me anyway. And my mom's like, you know, let me talk to him. And I'm like, nope, nope. I just went in the car. I don't remember what happened, if there was any follow up. I just know that after that, my mom got me into counseling shortly after about, you know, 14 and a half to 15 years old. And so here I am coming out of all that trauma, the molestation, the violent tempered man in my home, you know, my mom. My mom was special needs. You know, I don't use that, you know, to say, like, feel sorry for her. But it was hard for her to understand too, mentally, all of everything that was going on. So I'm coming out of that, you know, 6 to 12 and 12 to 14 with all the violence and the aggression and the anger. And so they didn't believe me at the police station. They made me feel like it was my fault. And I go into counseling and I get in these 4-H groups and these counseling circles. And what happens to me? I meet a man who's about 24, 25. I'm 14. He's flirting with me. In counseling? Yes. He was my counselor when I went to a 4-H camp. He was, like, the leader of, like, five of us, you know. And there was, like, say four or five counselors, 20 kids. Each counselor had a group of kids. When you say 4-H camp, are you talking about, like, the animal organization 4-H? So when I was a teenager, 4-H had aspects of it that also offered counseling. Okay. So I don't know if it's a different organization. I'm not certain, but I just remember it was called 4-H. Well, it was, like, head, health, hands, and heart. And they had, like, an agricultural side of things. I think so. Okay. Because my exposure to 4-H was just on the agricultural side. But living on the West Coast and being primarily in cities, you didn't have a lot of agricultural available. So whatever little exposure to 4-H you got was you got to raise a lamb or you got to raise rabbits or something like that. Yeah. And that was pretty much it. Okay. Well, that would have been awesome. But, so, yeah, I do, you know, and, again, it might not be the same, and they did want to call it 4-H. But that's very specific, something I remember. So we want to be careful. We don't know which 4-H organization. Correct. Yes. I apologize. No, no need for you to apologize. It's just disorganizations all over the country. So, anyway, but please. So, you know, he's flirting with me and he's grooming me. Nothing physical happened with him until I was 16. But from 14 to 16 there was a, what I would call a relationship, a courting, if you will, a grooming, I call it now when I look back, but I didn't realize it at the time. So I'm in this counseling and this happens, and then I come back out of camp and I'm still involved in these big group counseling sessions where they had families come in with their children who've gone through trauma and everybody kind of talked together of ways to cope and deal with these things. And I meet this kid, and he's about my age, and we befriend each other, and he's there with his dad. And, you know, my mom and I and the son and the dad are all out talking in the parking lots after the counseling sessions and just, you know, I don't know what you call it, just chatting. And I mentioned I'm a singer, so that's where I say the enemy really was like, hey, I'm coming in here. I mentioned that I like to sing, and the man says, well, I have a brother in the music industry, in the local music industry, who could help you get into the music business. You know, he made me sing for him in the parking lot or something. And, you know, oh, you've got a beautiful voice. You'll pump me up. I'm going to connect you with my brother. So he connects me with his brother who's in a, you know, pretty, I would say in the state we're in, he's a decently, even today, high up in the music industry of our state, if you will. So it makes me feel a little worried, like, how much access does he have to young artists still today? I don't know him anymore. You know, I blocked him from my life many, many years ago. But anyway, so I met this music industry person in our local music, you know, industry area. And he starts grooming me at, you know, 14, almost 15 immediately. You're beautiful. I want to help you get into the music business. You know, it was this older man who at first appeared to just be a kind, brotherly type figure who also was telling me I was pretty and that I was special. And he knew everything that happened to me as a child because I told him early on. I mean, that's why I was in counseling where I met his brother. And he knew all that and he still just, it started off with comments and flirting and, you know, four or five hour conversations on the phone. I'm 16, you know, 15, 16 at that point. He's 35 or so. He's married. And then we started hanging out. He'd pick me up. He'd take me to his house. And even then, nothing physical in the beginning. It was, hey, wear something a little tighter so I can look at your body and tell you how we're going to dress you as an artist. Was his way to get me to wear something revealing to his house. I'm 15, you know. I'm like, okay. By 15, I had been, you know, molested. And these things had been, you know, these grooming incidents, these older men saying or doing inappropriate things to me. So it seemed so normal. And then it was, my wife doesn't love me. She rejects me. I'm a lonely man. I need somebody to understand me. I'm a music man. And I'm 16 by that point. And I'm like, oh, you poor man. I'm so sorry. Because in my life, I felt alone. I mean, I had wonderful, I love my mom. My siblings were great. I had some friends. But I felt very isolated because in my mind at that point, I'm filthy and dirty anyway. I can't let anybody know who I really am. And so I bought into it and we started an affair. It lasted a couple years from 16 to, you know, nearly 18. And, you know, then it got to a point where, you know, I just kind of got away from him. He led me in. Well, after all that, he led me into another local studio with some other musicians to do some demo CDs. And those men, so I believe that he was trying to pass me on to them. Because they started, you know, there would be comments like, I heard this about you. And I would think the only person who would know that is the guy who brought me in here. And so, you know, they tried to be sexual with me. They tried to, you know, hey, you know what, you're pretty hot. You know, I'm 16. And these are like men in their mid-30s and 40s. Yeah. But I'm already so overwhelmingly ashamed and beaten down by, you know, you're the, you know, it wasn't even, I didn't even feel like a victim. It was like you're the dirty one. You made this happen to yourself. So I couldn't even be mad that that happened to me. Yeah. Can I ask a question? You said that the brother of this man had a son that was in counseling with you, Lee. Yeah. Was that son abused as well? I don't remember the exact reason he was in the, because it was like family trauma counseling. Okay. So I'm not sure if it was some other trauma. But I did know basically the kids in the program, it wasn't the parents getting the counseling. It was the children. So it was the children. And they were bringing in the parents to kind of help the healing, if you will, the coping with how to handle the trauma. But it was different. I mean, I remember specifically there was one girl whose brother was murdered and she was just on drugs at like 12, 13 years old. And so I'm not certain what his trauma was, but I will say that what I remember of the dad that I met in counseling, you know, the brother of the music guy, he wasn't, he was, I use the word smarmy a lot, but kind of. The buddy guy put his arm around a 16 year old girl's shoulder right in front of her mom and hey, you're, you're cute and you can sing. I'm going to, you know, tell my brother about you. And so I feel like the whole family, you know, those that I did meet in the family were pretty. Awful. Inappropriate. Inappropriate. Yeah. For sure. You mentioned in a conversation prior to coming on air, how, how this affected you and how it kind of introduced you into the, into two drugs or, or realizing that drugs was a way to kind of deaden this shame or, or bad feelings that you had. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. I started drinking and smoking cigarettes about 12 years old. So it was, you know, when the, when the molestation, then the stuff like that stopped happening in the home. He still lived there, like I said, a couple more years, but I was already, you know, here I am literally 12, 13 years old going to college parties in my local city, getting drunk, getting wasted. Her own men driving my friends and I were all 13, you know, 12, 13, 14 around in their cars. I just started partying and I, you know, I didn't do pills until I was around 16, but I started with the alcohol, the pot, just anything that my friends were trying. Can I ask you that? So, so you just mentioned, so not, not only are you 12, 13 and you're going to these college parties, so yet more adults that are preying on 12 year olds. And, and I'll tell you, you know, I know I'm not on camera. I got the avatar, but at 12, 13, even 14, 15, I looked like a little girl still. I have a baby face, so I'm certain they didn't mistake me for a 17, 18 year old. I'm certain of it. I can't say I, I was at that point actively drinking and, and, you know, smoking and all that stuff. There might be times I don't remember bad things happening because I would literally drink, you know, fifths of liquor at that age and I wanted to drown everything out. So then I, I did that. And then 16, I had a back injury and the, I was, you know, my, at the time I had a guardian and, you know, cause I was just a real troubled teenager and I, I hurt my back and I went to the ER and they ended up prescribing me a bottle of narcotics. So my guardian should have had those, I was a minor. They should have prescribed them in her name or let her know anything, but they didn't. I got them, I was able to go fill them. And I don't even think at that time my guardian even would have realized, you know, yeah, you have a back injury, you go to the doctor, they give you pain medicine. She probably didn't realize that I would in turn then probably abuse them because who would have, back then it wasn't such a big, like it is today when you've got people like going to doctors just to get their, their fix, you know? And that's a sad thing that is, and a lot of people who've been assaulted as children will end up in that place because we're trying to numb everything. But so I ended up getting a bottle of pills, you know, took them. I'm 16, passed a few out to my friends, but then I realized I really liked the numbness this comes with. Especially with alcohol, huh? Yeah. And because yes, I was still drinking. And I praise the Lord I'm alive today because boy, did I really try to take myself out from, you know, say 12 on up into my twenties. I mean, I had a 20 year pill addiction. Lee, when you mentioned your guardian, was your mom still in the picture at the time? She was, but like I said, you know, my mom had not only did she have special needs, but she just mentally at that point, she's a single mom. She's trying to pay the bills and take care of me. My siblings were moved out by them, but she just couldn't control me. I was running away. They were finding me in drug houses on the South side of the city. So she called and said, Hey, you got to come get my daughter. I can't take her. So I wasn't foster care for about a year. And then I had a very wonderful person in my life who agreed to be my guardian and take me into their home. And I did well for a while. I did well in her home for a while, but then these people that were grooming me from like 14 up started being more prevalent around 16. And, you know, I'm hiding that from my guardian. She has no idea. And, you know, and so I just continued on that path of self-destruction from that point. I did the pills started at 16. Once I knew what that could do for me, I thought it out. I faked injuries to go get the pills. I stole, I mean, I became an addict and I tell people I was a full-blown addict for 20 years. I would steal pills out of medicine cabinets because I needed something to numb me. And by that point, doctors were starting to go, Hey, you know, you keep hurting yourself. What's going on? You know? So it was a really rough 20 years, but I, with all that being said, I will have eight years clean of all of my addictions this December. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it was, it was a rough ride, but you know, so. I mean, I made a lot of choices that, you know, 16, 17, 18, up and even into my twenties. I mean, I met my husband at 35. I was on a path to self-destruction up until I met my husband that I'm married to today. I really tried to destroy myself. I got up to over 400 pounds, severe diabetic, near death so many times because on top of all that here, I am drinking like that. So I mean, that's a wicker pills, maybe some beer too. I mean, I just is drunk or high as I could get myself. So I didn't have to think about all the things that happened is where I ended up for about 20 years. And I really want people to understand, you know, I know, I know that addiction is a controversial thing and people have things to say about it, but I would always say, when you look at an addict, look at their childhood, look at their life. There has to be a place where that really, where I say the devil used it to come on in and further destroy that, that person. Yeah. I made my choices and I admit that freely, but at the same time, I'm glad that I'm healed enough today to say, I know what the, you know, and again, the devil, this is who is behind all these evil, disgusting, filthy things. And he sent that into my home. I had a happy, I was telling a friend of mine, a very good friend of mine. I had a happy childhood up until that. Right. My mom was single, but I had my siblings and I was happy and I was very loved and cherished little girl. And I, yeah. You know, when you mentioned it, it makes me think about how this person ended up in your mom's life. She must've had, I think he was saying that she went through divorce and was looking for that person who could be the father, the father figure in the home. So she at herself was vulnerable and open. Her vulnerability opened that door for this evil to walk in. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And you know, it's unfortunate. My mom's been gone. It'll be two years this August, but she carried that guilt and that with her for her whole life. But I kept, you know, I, I, I got to walk her home. I was with her. She, I always knew I was going to take care of her. She was my baby. But I, I did my very best the last several years of her life, especially when I knew that she was getting closer to leaving, you know, mama, I don't care. I don't care. You know, I said, mama, you know how many children tell their mom or their dad, Hey, so-and-so has molested me. And the parent says, well, let's not tell anybody or, you know, oh, they didn't mean to hurt you. Cause I know many, many, many people that I grew up that endured that. So I'm grateful that she, she did protect me in the end when she knew that she needed to, but I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. I'm grateful that she didn't. If it went from 6 to 12 in that time frame, was there anything that could have shed some light on that, you know? Well, yeah. I would say that my behavior started being very dramatic. I remember that I didn't want to go to school for a long time. I was, you know, 6, 7, 8. I did not want to go to school, and my sister used to walk me to school. She'd have to drag me. And I would lay on the ground and say, I don't want to leave. I didn't want to leave home because I was afraid he would hurt somebody in my home while I was gone. I was afraid that he'd hurt my mother, and I couldn't tell anybody why, so I just made up these dramatic things. And so, you know, if you see a child that suddenly just changes from this happy little girl to absolutely irrationally upset and scared and fearful, there has to be a reason. It doesn't always mean molestation, but it means something traumatic to a child that's happened to cause them to change dramatically. Or if you notice there's adults paying special attention to your child or your teenager, hey, I know you're struggling with your 12-year-old. She's giving you a hard time. Well, I'll be your uncle so-and-so, and I'll get her in line for you. You know what? Red flag. That's my honest opinion, especially somebody of the opposite sex to that. But then, you know, nowadays. Yeah, you never know. You never know. I mean, women, and I will say that something that I remembered earlier when I was thinking about all this, there were women that I came across who did kind of, it sucks to say it like this, but almost pimped me out. Like, hey, I have this girl over here babysitting for me. If you want to show up at my house, she'll probably let you do what you want. That happened to me once. I think I was 18 at that time, and I was babysitting for this lady. And she left, and then this guy came over, and he said, so-and-so told me you were here alone babysitting, and she thought we might like each other. You know, I'm like 18, but he was like 30, and I did not want that, but it was like, you know. So many predators in this world. And I'm one girl in one small town here in my state, and like I said, you know, at least 10, you know, people from 6 to even, you know, 18, but probably more. And I have multiple friends who endured similar things from multiple people. So one small town, you're looking at 30, 40, 50 perverts, and we're talking mid-90s. Imagine what it's like now. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And now they're not even really hiding it anymore. Well, now they have tools to communicate on the Internet and cell phones. Yeah. What do you think, in your experience, you kind of, you didn't say it, but it sounds as though these people were mostly interested in the prepubescent period. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the child is just so innocent and not knowing? Or what do you think that's about? I mean, in my mind, I think, you know, and I can't speak for every person who does that. From my experiences and from what I gathered through my experiences, it was the innocence. It was like a drive to take that innocence and then keep it for themselves as long as they could. And once I started developing into what looked like more of a woman instead of a child, I no longer looked innocent. I looked like, you know, I'm older. I developed very early in life. I mean, by 10 years old, I had to buy a bra. So I was a developed girl. And I really think that is why the man who, you know, originally started, that's why he stopped. But there are also those out there who like the teenage girl. You're barely legal. We'll just compromise or, you know, there's a thrill in that. But they made me feel like there was a thrill in that. You know, we spoke earlier and we talked about, you know, the 80s, 90s, 80s and 90s movies and how it was acceptable. And I didn't really think about it. But, you know, you're thinking about the 16 Candles and those movies where they're showing young female breasts, you know, or think back to the horror films almost always. And then we're portraying young girls and boys naked. And everyone just kind of glossed over it like it's, you know, this is acceptable. Yeah. Yeah. It made it all right for grown men to watch a movie where a supposed teenage girl is showering in the locker room in high school. And you think, is that really what you want to convey? Why did that even have to be in that movie? I mean, I liked those movies until recently my husband and I tried to watch it. And I was like, I'm so, because I told him, I'm so sorry. I said, I bought the movie. I loved it. And then he's like, I don't really think this is great for us. You know, we're really, you know, we're in our faith now. We're trying to be away from those things. So it was just, it was a big eye opener to even back in my childhood and my youth, just how much sex was put out there to numb us, to normalize us to young sex. See, that's what this whole thing is about. I mean, you were young enough, and this has been going on for a very, very long time, about the grooming and how perverse this has become. It's so perverse that these people can't stay in the shadows anymore. I think that they believe that there's enough of them to where they can come out and say, this is just kind of normal. Yeah. And it is not. Lee, I have a question for you. Were any of these men you were exposed to, were they into pornography in any way? Did they have pornography on your TVs? Did they try to get you into pornography? I'm kind of curious about that. Well, I wouldn't say most of those situations. The man that started with a six-year-old, no, there was none of that involved. However, he did use very vulgar language. I remember I'm six, and he asked me if I wanted to f-word. And I was like, no. And he goes, okay, I was just testing you. Wow. Which was really weird as you're touching me inappropriately to say I was just testing you. But that's, I mean, that's kind of how perverse are, they're weird. Sorry. But later on, the original man from the music business, like I said, he took me to that studio. Yeah. And one of the men, the man who owned the studio, showed me a porn video. He wanted me to watch it with him. Again, I'm 16, and it was really uncomfortable, but I just sat there and watched it with him because here I am wanting to be, you know, I am a singer. I love to sing. And I just was like, okay, well, this is normal. Men have been doing this to me since I was six years old. I guess this is just what I have to endure. So I just sat there. It was never acceptable or comfortable. None of it was. But I was so darn broken by that, that I was just like, well, I guess this is what I'm worth. Right. And, you know, it took me a really long time. And I'm talking even to recently to see, to even love myself again. Sure. I can imagine. But, yeah, there was a lot of, you know, and then later on in life, there were men who, you know, and again, you know, even though I'm over 18, what I did find then was men that were just as abusive or weird. You know, I'm older now. I'm an adult now. But the way that I went through all that, and then I'm trying to have a normal dating life, I just ended up with abusive after abusive relationships, some of them just mentally, some physically, some sexually, but very, very, very abusive. And I took it all, thinking it was what I should take. You had mentioned that you seemed to have friends that had experienced some similarities. They were from broken families as well. Do you think that had, it sounds as though that there was only, things had gone so far with various people that you had had these experiences with. But had they gone on any farther, do you think that there might have been the possibility of being trafficked or they might have been involved in trafficking in any way? I would say absolutely the music business scene, yes. Because again, you know, if you have, I don't ever say to people I was trafficked. I will say I was groomed and people were trying to share me. So that music guy in the beginning and then, you know, he takes me to that studio, and those guys are making references to me, like they knew that they could if I, you know, if they wanted to and seeing if I'd be interested type of thing. It could have only come from him going and telling them, hey, this little teenage girl will, you know, let you do what you want. So I feel like that there was times, there were times when people were, those men were trying to pass me around. Just testing you. Yeah, yeah. But I wouldn't say I was, you know, ever trafficked. But would I suspect that of those men? I'm not sure that they were that, they were not very smart. Now that I'm an adult and I look back at their behavior, I'm thinking, yeah, you guys aren't, you weren't very smart. You were just dumb and you're blessed you didn't, you know, praise the Lord and go seek repentance because you didn't go to prison for what you did. But they weren't, they weren't very smart men. They didn't, you know, they didn't even really hide it if you think about it. I mean, they smiled in my mother's face and in my siblings, you know, a couple of them. They knew my siblings because, again, they were mentoring me musically, remember, and helping me with my career. So for a while after all that, you know, I get in my 20s, I didn't want to sing at all. And I love to sing. It's my gift from the Lord. I just love it. It's part of my healing. It's part of everything. But for a while I didn't sing and I didn't want to because those experiences in the music business were so jading and so broken that I thought, well, maybe I'm wrong, you know, that maybe this is not a place for me. So I didn't sing for a long time. I didn't want to. And I would say, you know, later on in life, shortly before I met my husband, but predominantly after I started listening to worship music and seeking my relationship, I always believed in God, but I always thought, He doesn't want me to look at all the things that I let happen to me. So I ran from God for a long time. But now I just want to, you know, that passion got taken away from me. My passion for life at six years old got taken. And I changed from a very happy, hopeful, bright little girl to a little girl who just cried all the time and was dramatic and trying to say to somebody, I'm not okay, I'm not okay, I'm not okay, but I didn't know how to say it. Right. So I go from that and then the music business thing, and it took so much joy away from me that what once gave me full joy no longer gave me joy. And it was so sad now that I think about it because music has always been really healing for me. You know, what you just said kind of brought up what we were talking about in a previous episode as far as children. Developmentally, their brains aren't fully functioning, fully formed, you know. And here you're acting out for everyone to see, but nobody really understands. You don't have another way of communicating it because you don't know what to say. And I think that stems from not being fully developed emotionally. You know, your brain's not fully developed. And unless someone recognizes the symptoms or the signs of a child in duress, you can easily get labeled as that troubled child, right? We always hear of, you know, the kids, they want to put them on Ritalin and all these other drugs because, you know, little Johnny, little Sarah is acting up in school. And so there is a big wave of just drugging the kids because they're having outbursts in school. And here there's someone like yourself who was trying to communicate that something really wrong was going on and you were, it was overlooked. And that we need to do a better job of recognizing if a kid is acting out, most likely there's something much worse going on than just being a naughty little child, right? Yeah, I was definitely labeled a problem child from the time I was, you know, fifth grade or so up. It was, you know, oh, how does that make you feel? How did that make you feel also? I mean, it made me feel terrible because I was like, I can't tell these people what really happened. But if only they knew, I'm not just freaking out because I'm a bad person. Like, I don't know how to handle this. Like, I remember, especially when I got a little older, the 12, you know, 13, it was like I would cry and cry. Why can't they see how hurt I am? Why do I even have to say it? Can't you see? Because I knew I was acting irrationally. I knew I was acting crazy. And they do, you know, when you get to a certain point, they will start drugging you. And it didn't happen early for me. I think I was either 17 or 18, probably 18 the first time I was prescribed an antidepressant through counseling and, you know, seeing a psychiatrist. Others are having a hard time. She's got to go see a shrink. Or, you know, so-and-so is having a hard time. She's got to go see a shrink. And, you know, that's how people kind of blow it off. You know, whoever is going through this thing, they just say, oh, so-and-so is, you know, they're just going a little crazy. And so I did end up on many antidepressants. I'm sorry. You just made me flash on it. So you were being prescribed antidepressants by a medical doctor. Did you have any faith counseling back then, or did that come later on in your life? No, that came later on in my life. I will say, so my brother was very, you know, he was into God when he was a teenager. And, you know, he gave me a Bible. And so, I mean, like I always believed in God. But my mom believed in God, but she didn't go to church. She didn't raise us in a church. So I just had random experiences with faith and all that kind of stuff. And I do remember that I did meet some believers, I wouldn't say in the counseling arena, but believers who I really think God planted in my life in those times, that they always made me feel more loved than I knew how to feel for myself. So while they weren't professional counselors, I will say that the truest counseling I needed did come from people like that. People who, even though they didn't know what happened to me, and I hadn't confessed to them all the things I felt ashamed of, they would, you know, by then I'm a very overweight young woman, and they would say things like, you're beautiful, and, you know, I don't understand why you're struggling so much. You're so talented. You have this, you have that. And they would try, and I'm praying for you, and, you know, maybe seek God. And at the time, I'm an addict, and I'm very sick, and I'm like, oh, okay. But in my mind, it was, God doesn't want me. Right. He's not going to want me. He's, like, perfect. And I did believe, and I believed that God was perfect. And so I just thought, you know, when you're young, God doesn't want me because this happens. Right. And so, but later on, I did, you know, I got, you know, I have a pastor I've known since I was a very young girl. He actually married my husband and I. He was always very present and influential in my faith. I think, like, around my 30s because I remember him from when I was younger. I knew he had become a pastor, and he was just somebody that I thought was one of the most beautiful believing souls I ever met, and I loved everything he stood for when I was younger. And later on, you know, when we reconnected and all that, I was so grateful for his presence in my life because he was somebody that I saw as somebody who was probably the closest to God I'd ever known. And he loved me and treated me like I was of value and wanted to help me see, you know, how much God loved me and stuff. So I really wish it would have came earlier, but, you know, we all have a journey, and it did finally come, and it came in what I think is the right time. I was thinking about this earlier just in quick reference to that, to faith-based counseling and all that. I went through these terrible things, and they did hurt me, and I still have a little bit of scars here and there. You know, I'll have flashbacks or memories I don't like. But after all that I went through and who I am today, I feel like the phrase, it's in Esther of the Bible where it says, you know, perhaps you were born for such a time as this. And I feel like that everything I went through now, I'm beyond that. You know, it's your fault. I'm at a point now where I'm saying, I went through that. I overcame it. The Lord rescued me out of it, and now it's time, it's such a time for me to help other people see that their rescue is at hand, whether they are children getting rescued out of sex trafficking, which is a very important issue right now, and I pray and pray and pray about it every day. Lord, help the little ones. Bring it to light. From dark to light, bring it, because these people cannot keep doing this. Or there's somebody like me who wasn't trafficked, but you endured things like that, and you feel like you're not good enough or you're so broken you can't be healed. I want people to know that that's possible. And for that to be possible, those of us who have been through things like that, we ought to be speaking up and we ought to be coming for that act. I'm not saying we go out and we start, you know, baseball batting the child molesters, because you know what, that's not going to fix it. We have to just be, we have to bring it to light. We have to show it, the proof. Show the proof. Show us what's happening. Let these children come out. You know, encourage your children to speak out about it. And then protect them from the monsters. Yes, sunlight is sterilizing. It is, yes. Well, and I often say, pay attention to your child. Listen to them. You know, have conversations with them about different things. The more that you get to know your child, the more that you may realize that something's not quite right, you know, with that child. I think a lot of times we get so busy because, you know, there's two parent families working, nobody's home, everybody's so busy, and we've got to have dinner and then it's time for bed, that you might not actually know your child. Right. And we need to know them and we need to listen to them and hear them. Right. Keep the movie off. Yeah, I would say it's even important, like, you know, I don't have any children, but I've got my eyes on any child in my life, I've got my eye on them. And I watch. And I pay attention to the things they tell me and the words they say and their body language because I am on that lookout. And I think that that's important, even if you're not a parent, if you have children in your life, your nieces and nephews, your best friends' kids, your whoever, if you see that that child is changing or if something's going on, say something. You know, there was a woman, I remember, she was a friend of my mom's, and later on, I was in my 20s or 30s, and she said, well, I always knew something was going on in your house, but I didn't want to get involved. Oh, geez. Yeah. And I want to tell you folks, those who know me, I will get involved on a child's behalf. I'm not afraid of those monsters anymore. We have to shut them down. Right. You don't want them to end up at 20 years addictions and getting to a point where they're so obese that, you know, they're afraid to go to sleep. You know, because that is part of a reaction to trauma. Right. Yeah. I will say my mom was heavyset. And so at, you know, six to eight years old, once I had heard my mom's husband say something negative about her body being overweight. So I took that internally as, okay, go get fat. And he'll stop touching you. Oh, boy. So I started eating and eating. And by the time I was 12, also on top of becoming a woman, you know, that figure coming out, I was about 200 pounds at that point, at 12. Even adults mostly shouldn't be 200 pounds. And I'm sure you were probably bullied and all of that by school classmates and stuff like that who would love to pick on things like that. Oh, yeah. And, you know, we were poor, so I wore the hand-me-downs and the Welfare's thick Coke bottle glasses. And, you know, when I brought a lunch, it was, you know, cheap bologna sandwiches, and I got picked on for all of it, every bit of who I was. Did you have to wear the Wonder Bags on your feet in the wintertime? I absolutely did, and I will say this. Nowadays I might even do it, depending on what shoes I got to wear. It worked. But, yeah, we had to do all that. You know, we got the government cheese, which is still, I'd say, the best cheese there was. But, you know, those of us who grew up in that system, we do understand those little perks. Perks are important. You know, Lee, I'm sure it wouldn't come to a surprise to you, but another survivor out there, a lady named Kathy O'Brien, in her autobiography she spoke about the music industry and how there were many victims of trafficking, exploitation, in that industry, and it was used as a cover for these predators. And so when you were saying your story, it's like no surprise there. And if you remember, was it Henry Weinstein or? Harvey. Harvey Weinstein. Oh, yeah. You know, the audition couch, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah, all of that. Why is it all centered around music and film? There's something in that industry. I think it's the cultivator for this perverse industry that they have that's called child exploitation, trafficking, the things that they do, the things we've been reporting about. Think about how powerful that is, is that not only are you victimizing the people that want to get into the music industry, right, you're using them, and then once they're in, they're controlled, and then they're pushing it out in the visuals and the songs and all of that, which just kind of pushes that agenda even further and it normalizes it. Britney Spears is a classic example to me when I look at her. She's a beautiful, talented, precious young woman, gets into the entertainment industry, and suddenly she's rich, she's famous, she has everything you probably want, right? Suddenly she's shaving her head in public and wigging out, and I've seen videos of her where she was just completely out of it, and you think this is what the entertainment industry does for our young people because that's not normal. Justin Bieber behavior is not normal. Miley Cyrus. Not normal. Yeah. And people are numb to that, they're numb to that. The Britney Spears situation, I just found it interesting that beyond becoming, once she became an adult, she was still under conservatorship from her father for, what, another 20 years and she just finally was able to break free of that, and here we're finding out the father really was in it for his own self interest. This is why he was keeping her under conservatorship. Imagine how she felt as, you know, everybody, she's so publicly adored yet she's a prisoner in her own. Just wild. Just wild that that could be done to a young woman who really, and if you look at it from that aspect, you know, I was, you know, young and I wanted to sing. It was all I ever wanted. And then all of a sudden all this tragedy happens within a local music scene. To this day, I praise God that he said no to a career when I was that young, that it didn't go further than local because I would have been dead. I would have gotten on more drugs. I would have had the ability to self-destruct even more. So I'm glad. And today, you know, I belong to a wonderful church. I'm part of the worship team. I sing. I sing probably 25 songs a day. I sing around my house. I sing in the car. I love music again. It's, you know, I just want to keep reiterating there is hope out of these situations. You know, we're pretty much at the, we're right up against the clock and we were wondering if for about a minute, if you have a closing statement you'd like to say, and we can bring you back on for another discussion at another time, if that's good for you. What would you like to close with? I just, I want to say too, especially, you know, I'm talking to everybody. I want you to pay attention to what's happening to children. Go see the movie, by the way, that's coming out, Sound of Freedom. It's just enough said. You'll get your eyes open to a lot of things that you might not. Mainstream media is not going to tell you what's happening to our little. I want people to know that I have been through some of the things, maybe worse than I've been through. You are still valuable. You are still loved. You are still important. You still have something to offer. I think I get emotional, but I know that this is still happening to many children who are going to turn into adults who will self-medicate or self-harm or any of those things out of response and maybe lead themselves into death when they really have so much to offer the world. So I just don't, don't give up. Know that it wasn't your fault and that, you know, you're still loved and valuable and please speak out. Call this, contact this show. I'm sure they'd love to interview more people to get this message out that we can overcome. And I'm believing that for you and I just pray that, that you'll do that. Lee, we want to thank you for being here today. Incredible story. Thank you for sharing it with us and our audience and for our listeners, please share this so this can get out to others. And let's try to stop this. Yeah. The more, the more eyes that we have on this and the more that we acknowledge the closer we are to putting this to an end. Yeah. Let's get in the battle. You bet. Well with that, we'll see you all next time. Thank you for joining us here on Beyond the Brink. Thank you. Have a good day. Bye.
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