Bertha Interview

Nathan and Bertha are discussing their classes at St. Migrant. Nathan has Thanksgiving week off but still has finals coming up. They talk about the classes they are taking and their finals being paper-based. Nathan asks Bertha about her position as the director of Hispanic ministry in the diocese. Bertha explains that she is responsible for being a resource and voice for the Hispanic community in the parishes. She talks about the challenges of incorporating different cultures and the language barrier. She also mentions her previous experience in ministry and her role in various aspects of it. Hi Bertha, this is Nathan, how are you? Hi Nathan, how are you? I'm doing really well. Good, I'm so happy that you want to do this. Yeah, no, I'm excited to do it. Nice, so are you at St. Migrant right now or where? Yes, I'm at St. Migrant, we actually just got done with our last classes before Thanksgiving. Oh, are you having fun with your finals? No, so we have Thanksgiving week off all of next week and then we go back for a week after that. And that's when I'll take my finals. Oh, okay. So, not quite done. Okay, at least you're off with Thanksgiving, that's good. Yeah. That's awesome, I don't know if you know but I'm taking classes at St. Migrant right now. Oh yes, I think I ran into you earlier this semester. Yeah, so I have to do my final before next week, so I'm working on that all this week. Oh yeah, that's exciting. What class are you taking here today? I'm taking in person, I'm taking two. So the one in person is Theological Anthropology. And then the one online is with Father Nord, Paul Nord, and then Paul's Theology and his letters. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's just a lot of work, a lot of reading. Yeah, I would imagine. Are your finals for those classes, are they papers or is it some kind of test you have to take? Yeah, it's all paper. Okay. It's all paper, so it's just getting it all done, but yeah. Yeah. I understand that. I've still got my papers to get done, so. Yeah, I think I'm going to head back to Evansville on Sunday and take advantage of the quiet here to try to get some stuff done, but we'll see if it happens or not. Yeah. Okay. So do you have questions then, or did you just want me to tell you? What is it? What is your plan? Yeah, I've got a few questions I was going to ask you, but as I'm asking you, if there's anything else you just want to kind of talk about, you're welcome to. But yeah, so this is a paper that we're doing for our Church in the Americas class. And so I'm going to do it. I'm interviewing a few different people about Hispanic ministry in the diocese, so then I'm just going to kind of make a paper based on that. So I'll go ahead and ask you a couple questions, if that's okay. Yeah, of course. Okay, so as the director for Hispanic ministry in the diocese, what all does your position kind of entail? What are you in charge of? And then all the parishes and their communities in the Hispanic Latino community. So my main focus is to be a resource and like a voice, you know, for the parishioners and the churches with the diocese and vice versa. So in a bigger picture, that's what it is. But what do I do? I do a little bit of everything. So when you stop and look, you know, we have Hispanics in all areas of ministry. Like in the departments affected by, you know, not affected, but we have Hispanics in it. So therefore, you know, one of the very first things I discovered when I came was, you know, every department was like, can you help me translate this into Spanish? Can you help me translate this into Spanish? And I was like, oh my, if I just translate, I'm never going to get anything done. Because everybody, like every office has an aspect of it that influences the Hispanic community, you know, or they need to serve the Hispanic community. So yeah, it's just a little bit of everything. We focus, or my title is more focused on the pastoral aspect of it instead of like outreach. So we used to have an outreach specialist, which we don't right now, or a coordinator. But that person would do more of the community, you know, outreach. So for me, it's more of a resource to the priest and to the parishes that serve the Hispanic ministry. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I was actually, so on Wednesdays, I go and help out at St. Wendell. Oh, okay. And I was talking to Sherry Cooley. Yeah. And she was, I had mentioned that I was going to talk to you later this week, and she said, oh, well, she does everything. Do you know what I mean? I am a PCL. I am a director of youth ministry. I do a little bit of everything. You know, I help out with vocations, with couples, with marriage prep, with teaching. Yeah, like, yeah, a little bit of everything. She's right. So how long have you been working for the diocese in your position? Three years. So this position is brand new. Like, I mean, not really, but yes. So we were under Catholic Charity before. Oh, okay. And I don't know if you remember Sharon. She was, like, the director for Catholic Charity. Yeah. Yeah, so she also supervised offices of Spanish ministry. So they used to have, like, for my position, basically, was like a coordinator of, you know, like pastoral. But since I came in, that was in 2020, January of 2020. So three years, almost four. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, almost four years since I came in. Yeah, okay. Before you started working for the diocese, were you involved with ministry in any other way? Oh, yeah. So, oh, my, where do I begin? So I've been in ministry since I was probably, like, 15 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. I used to lead, I was the coordinator for a youth ministry parish, you know, in Spanish, youth ministry in Spanish. So I did that, and then I met my husband and everything until I had my kids. So then after that, I mean, and throughout the whole thing, I've done all kinds of ministry, you know, lector, usher, like, choir, like everything. And so then after that, like, I went away a few years. Well, I mean, I didn't go away from the church, I was still doing stuff. But I started working for the church when I was 22 years old, and I was a VRE, a VCO. So they hired me to do that back in 2000. Well, whatever, long time ago. So I did that for, like, 12 years. I was a VRE in California. Okay. Yeah. And so, and then I led, like, the, well, as a VRE, I had all the religious ed aspects of it, you know, on the CIA, I had first communion, confirmation, all of that. And it was for both English and Spanish on my level. We had three programs going at the same time. Oh, wow. That's a lot. For first communion, we would meet two days, from five to six, and there were, like, English classes. And then Wednesdays were bilingual classes. And then Thursdays, we had the Spanish classes. And we had confirmation on Wednesday night. So, yeah, and each group, I mean, over 100 kids, you know, so, yeah, it was intense. Yeah, that's a lot. So, anyways, after I did that, we moved here to Indiana. And so I was out, you know, from ministry for a year because I worked at Memorial for President. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, I worked there as a secretary for one year. Oh, okay. Yeah, just a part-time, just while I got kind of adjusted to a new place. Yeah. And then I got hired at St. Ben's to be a youth minister. So I did that for three years at St. Ben's. Okay. Youth ministry slash PCO. So, yeah, I was doing that, and then I came here. So, yeah, I've been in ministry for a long time. Oh, yeah, so you've had a lot of different experiences with it. Yeah, I've been blessed, honestly. Such a blessing. Yeah. So you said, I guess you've had a lot of experience with English language ministry and Spanish language ministry. Yeah. What would you say, like what are, I guess the parish you said you were at in California had pretty big ministry in both areas. Yeah. What would you say, like some of the biggest challenges you faced with that would be in a parish where you have like a large English speaking group and a large Spanish speaking group? Yeah. I think, well, one of the biggest challenges has always been like incorporating cultures, you know, and just having them understand each other, you know. So, it's, I mean, it is a challenge, even on the day-to-day stuff, not with the big things, you know, but in the day-to-day stuff, like the way we function within that community is very different than the way we do things in English. So, it works good if you can understand it, but there's like all these challenges as to, like how do you get administration, you know, like the principal or the other teachers to understand why we have to do this, you know what I mean? Uh-huh, yeah. And getting everybody on board and collaborating with each other, that's always a challenge. Yeah, that's, we, so for our class we read a book called Building Bridges, I think. But it was talking about Hispanic ministry and it said, it was talking about one of the biggest challenges in a parish with two different kind of cultural communities is getting them to, because they kind of come with like different values. And so, there might be a conflict at the service level, but if like the two groups don't kind of understand where each person is coming from, that can be difficult to solve that. Yeah, totally, you know, in so many areas, like I said, it doesn't have to be like big things, but little things, you know, and like, I'll give you an example. With First Communions, you know, we are big with the Hispanic community about having padrinos, like godparents, sponsors. And so, for First Communions, we need to have a sponsor, something that, you know, this sacrament doesn't require. So, at Nativity, where I used to work, you know, it was hard explaining that to the priest or whoever, but we have the padrinos, but why do you need a padrino? You don't need padrinos for that. I know, we don't, but we do. And so, like, little things like that, you know, it's always kind of like, I think after a while, the priest will get used to it, you know, like, okay, fine, you do, but I always had to, like, whenever someone new came up on board, I had to explain, or we got a new principal, or whatever, you know, and we had the Latinos in the mass, so I had to explain to them why they needed a padrino, you know, stuff like that. But it's the day-to-day things, you know, that we do, like you said, we do have different values and different ways of doing things, you know. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And the language barrier, you know, I think that's another struggle, because we do have, like, you know, as far as the kids go, you know, they do speak English, they understand it, and they feel more comfortable with English, but then we have the parents who can't communicate with you in English, so you have to have, you know, so that kind of stuff is also a struggle, you know, with, like, different generations of Hispanics, and where they're at with their language, and how you accommodate and serve all of them, you know, so that's always a big issue. Yeah, yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. So if those are some of the challenges in a parish like that, what do you think some of the blessings from having both communities in one parish would be? You know, I thought about that a while back, too, you know, it's just beautiful to see how, and then not everyone is open to it, you know, but when you do have that openness, and people want to accept other cultures and other people, you know, they, I don't know, I just feel like they thrive, you know, there's all this learning from each other, and then there's experiences that, you know, or cultural events that they do, you know, that they wouldn't experience otherwise. So I think the richness, you know, of the Hispanic community, because we do have so many good things about it, you know, our culture is so rich, and then we have so many aspects of it, the food, you know, everything we do involves food, and so, like, seeing that, like, sharing all that with the American culture, you know, I think it's a blessing. I feel like people do get to learn a lot about each other, and help to, help them to understand each other, and be able to, you know, affect each other better, and collaborate, you know, for the bigger mission. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, is that an answer? Yeah, no, no, I think that's, yeah, I think that's a good, I like that answer a lot. Good. So as you, as you, well, you've been involved with ministry for a while, as you've, I guess, as you've gotten even more experiences, how has your, I guess, vision of Hispanic ministry kind of evolved or changed over time? Or has it, have there, have there been things that, either, like, successes that you've learned from, or failures that you've learned from? Yeah, so, I think, to be honest with you, like, I had, how do I say this, so I had done religious, you know, at a parish level. I had never done anything diocesan-like, you know, so that's why I didn't even want to apply for the job, because I did not feel qualified. But anyway, now that I'm here, you know, I just reflect on how it's helped me, personally, to grow in my own understanding of my heritage. Like, I was born in Mexico, but I came to the U.S. when I was 11. So I grew up in California, without our families, you know, so I never got to do a lot of the cultural, like, traditions, like setting up the Day of the Dead. Like, I never did that with my family, we never did. And it was just not something my family did in Mexico, either. So, now that I'm involved with, like, a broader aspect of the Hispanic community, and not just religious education, you know what I mean? Now I have the experience, and I have the opportunity to learn more about my own heritage. And now I've been doing Salas de Muertos, which I never did before. So I think that working just for the Hispanic community has definitely given me opportunities that I didn't have before, to really, like, go deeper into what it means to be a Hispanic member of, you know, the community here. And then, not only personally, but I think as far as, like, the stuff I've done, of course I've made many mistakes. And, I mean, it's funny because, you know, I came into this role, but there was, like, no, nothing had been established prior to me. There was, like, no bar, you know what I mean? So people just blamed Canvas. And so, it's been wonderful because I can make it and shape it. Well, not me, but us, you know, within the Hispanic community, we can shape it to be whatever we need it to be. So, yes, it's done a lot of trial and error things, you know, that we've tried things. Oh, that doesn't work. So, I guess, you know, I don't know. What have I learned? I've learned that I can't do anything alone, you know, and that it has to be done as a community, and especially with a lot of people. Like, everybody has to have a part in it, you know. We're not a community that takes, like, just tell me what to do kind of thing. No, we have an opinion, and we have a say, and we want to do things our way, you know. So, I've learned that as a community, everybody likes to take part in stuff, you know. And I've learned to work with their pace. Because, you know, Filipinos, we're not about meetings and organizing and having things way ahead. No, we don't do that. Everybody does things on the moment, you know, as far as the moment. Oh, yeah, this is it. Oh, yeah, let's go, you know. So, being flexible and working together, I think, has been a big lesson. Not that I didn't do that, but I feel like it's reinforced that, now that I'm just focusing on the Hispanic community. Uh-huh, yeah. Am I missing any aspects of that question? No, it was a pretty broad question, so. Okay, okay. Good, good. So, I guess, let's see, what other questions do I have? So, at the diocesan level, what do you think the biggest challenges are in regards to Hispanic ministry? Like, for the Diocese of Evansville, specifically, I guess. We have a few that I've encountered, you know, it's going to be four years, but we had the pandemic, so that was back and forth. Which actually was a blessing for me, but anyways, because I didn't have anything pending or anything to do outside, so I focused on learning, you know, and researching what had happened in the diocese and what was the whole Hispanic ministry about, because I had never done the specifics, you know. So, anyways, after that, I feel like some of the bigger challenges, I mean, there's plenty. One is that we don't have a lot of resources for the Hispanic community. So, me, for example, you know, we don't have a single counselor or professional that can help people with therapy, that can speak Spanish, and I'll advertise. So that, like, is a big challenge, you know, that we don't have anybody to refer people to when they are seeking mental health, you know. Then, I mean, it's like that in so many areas, because we don't have a lot of staff or a lot of people, like in the parishes. So, we have six parishes in the diocese. We're a really small, you know, diocese when it comes to the Hispanic community, but there's six parishes that have a Hispanic ministry, and out of them, we only have one full-time employee and one part-time employee that help with the community, besides the priest. You know, and we're lucky that we have three now. But, you know, before that, and like I said, we're relatively new, so it is all good, you know, but it's just a lot of challenges because we're so new, and we don't have the staff to help them, you know, with all the needs. And I feel like the community keeps growing and growing so rapidly, and we can't catch up. You know, and it just feels like there's more needs and more needs and more needs, wherever you look, and we can't really meet all of them. You know, so I think that's one of the biggest challenges. You know, as far as acceptance, I feel like the community is doing really well. You know, those six parishes do really well at welcoming, you know, the Hispanic community and stuff. So, I mean, there's always little things, but not like a big rejection of, you know, we don't want them here kind of thing. So, I think that's not a big challenge, at least not that I know of. You know, nobody has voiced that. But, yeah, definitely the lack of resources, lack of, like, professionals to help in all areas. But, I mean, I think, in general, Evansville is a lot like that because we don't have so many Latinos here, you know. So, we're a growing community, and I think, in general, wherever you look, they're hiring people and they wish they were bilingual. Yeah, yeah, kind of like the whole region is struggling with that. Yeah, again, because the Hispanic community is growing so much, you know. Yeah, do you know, so you said the community is growing. Do you think, like, in the future, do you think it'll, like, that our parishes will kind of, do you think we'll see more, I guess, Hispanic ministries develop at other parishes? Yeah, just to give you a perspective, in the last 10 years, from some of the research I've done and stuff, and you can find this online, you know, if you go to the field research or places like that, but in the last 10 years, in, like, Indiana, I think it was, we grew 82% in Latino population. Oh, wow, yeah. 82% all three in 10 years. That is quite a big increase. Yeah, and it's just going to continue, you know. Fortunately or unfortunately, however you want to look at it, you know, we do have, we come from a background where we want to have big families, you know. And so, we do tend to have a lot of kids, and then not only that, we're migrating, you know, and a lot of people used to just kind of migrate to, like, the border states. But people are moving beyond that now because it's so crowded and it's so expensive in those states, you know, so they end up moving. And so, yeah, it is projected that we're going to continue growing at, like, that rate, you know, so it means a lot. Not that they're all Catholic, not, you know, so it doesn't affect, like, the diocese, if you will, but I feel like, in general, the population will definitely continue to expand in the area, too. Yeah, no, that's actually good motivation for me. I've been trying to learn Spanish, but I just have not, I haven't done it yet. So, knowing that, that gives me a lot more motivation to continue doing that. Good, yes, good. And then you'll make a lot of use for those agencies because we are going to need, in fact, as it is, you know, the three priests that we have. We have four, with Fr. Crispin and the others. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, you know, even them, I feel like they're stretched so thin, you know, there's so much going on. Yeah, yeah. Well, some of them have multiple churches at bay. Exactly. Yeah, and so that tells you, you know, the need is there, you know, and like I said, we're not, like, a huge community, you know, here in Evansville, but I really think it will continue. I don't see it going backwards. Yeah. Okay, so this is, I think, kind of the last question I have. So, what advice would you give to someone who's just starting to get involved with Hispanic ministry or to maybe a new pastor who hasn't really had a lot of experience with Hispanic ministry? What kind of advice would you give to them? When it comes to serving the Hispanic community? Yeah. You know, I think the more people can, like, experience and let, like, the culture be expressed, you know, like, let them express their cultural traditions and different things, you know. So, I think welcoming them and letting them be, you know, usually we do have, like, vibrant communities who want to do stuff and want to be involved. So, just letting them take part of that and letting them express their faith, you know, and through their cultural expression of demonstrations of faith, you know. Yeah. And just being open to that and maybe just getting to know who they are, you know, and then I feel like people feel, once you're welcomed, they're like, it's agents, right? So, once you're welcomed, you can actually start participating and eventually you'll end up belonging. So, you want to get to that stage where they belong and they feel like this is my parish too. Yeah. Because a lot of migrants come with the mentality that they're only here for a certain period of time and they're hoping to go back to their country. You know, that's usually the case. In fact, here's a little tip. We don't have a lot of people that are retired Latinos here in the U.S. in general because people come, work, and they want to go and retire in Mexico. Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. So, look at that. When you go to an Hispanic parish, you're not going to see a lot of elders because that's not in our mind. People love their country and they want to go back. It's just that they need to come and provide for their family. So, they'll come, work, and then they hope that eventually, one day, they're able to go back home and retire. So, when they come, they don't feel like this is their parish. You know what I mean? It's not a long-term thing, so they don't see themselves as belonging to the parish. We've had statistics say that a lot of them contribute to their parishes back at home. So, they'll send them money. Because they still see that as their parish. Yeah, they still feel like they belong to it. Yeah. Exactly. So, in order to get them to feel like, no, this is their parish, you need to let them be. You know what I mean? Let them have a say. Let them live out their religious faith the way they want to. And that way, they'll feel comfortable to one day say, I belong here. This is where I contribute to. So, I think that would be the biggest piece of advice. Just helping them to say, welcome, so that they're able to express their faith and live it out the way they normally would. Or they feel comfortable to feel like they belong. And then they will contribute more as being part of the community. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Yeah, I mean, other than that, I think the more that you can experience that stuff too, you know, it opens up more doors. You know, like you or anybody else, any pastor, any priest, you know, the more that they can open themselves to living those experiences and getting to know people. I think that's what brings down the walls. You know, we love, as a Hispanic Native, we just love to feel like, I don't know how to explain this. Okay, if you were to go, have you been to Mexico? I've been to Mexico City for about a week, but that's the only time I've been there. Okay, so if you were to go and stay in a community, you're going to see how much they love their priests. They love the priests. So, we just love to show them, you know, that we respect them and we have this amazing gratitude, amount of gratitude for them. So, they'll do anything to like help them, you know. So, I just want, I would love to tell people that, you know, like they're going to love you if you let them love you. Yeah. You have to kind of be open to that. They're going to see you every day. They're going to make sure you're good. You have to like be open to that. Yeah. I don't know what else. Other pieces of advice anymore or is that good? I don't know if you have more, but that is good advice. Good. I mean, other than that, I think it's just, yeah, being flexible too because they're not going to work. Like I said, our cultures are so different. Yeah. You know, so things are never going to go the way you think they are. Uh-huh. You have to roll with the punches. Oh, okay. You know, like more spontaneous, if you will. Or, yeah, don't be ruled by the clock so much. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's pretty much the biggest aspect of it. Okay, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I think that was pretty much all the questions I had. I don't want to keep you too long. Oh, okay. Well, I hope that helps. Yes, no, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it. No problem. And I have my cell phone, so if you have any other questions, you can shoot them my way. Oh, perfect, perfect. Thank you. You're welcome. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Yes, you too. Thank you. You're welcome. Bye.