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The Digital Deep Dive podcast explores the impact of short-form media consumption and lithium mining for electric vehicles. Short-form media platforms like TikTok and Instagram Reels have gained popularity, but there are concerns about their effect on attention spans and emotional responses. The rise of vertical format videos on smartphones has made it easier to consume content, leading to addictive behaviors. Additionally, lithium mining, which is essential for EV batteries, has environmental and social implications. The podcast aims to delve into these topics, discussing their sustainability and potential solutions. Welcome to Digital Deep Dive. Unraveling the Matrix where we decode the digital world one byte at a time. I'm your host Ben and with me is my co-host Mankirit. Today we're peeling back the layers of the digital phenomena that shape our lives. In this episode we'll explore the unsustainability of lithium mining for electric vehicles and the cognitive currents of short-form media. We're diving into the research, the implications and the misconceptions. Stay tuned as we decode these topics and ask each other the hard-hitting questions. First up on our radar, platforms like TikTok and Instagram reels have us all hooked haven't they? In mere minutes you can laugh, cry, learn a new dance or get a quick news fix. But have you ever wondered what this fast food style media consumption is doing to us? There's a growing concern that our appetites for quick digestible content might be nibbling away at our attention spans and even numbing our emotional responses. In a world of endless scrolling, what are we truly gaining and what might we be losing? Switching gears, let's talk about the whirlwind world of lithium mining for electric vehicles. You've probably heard that EVs are the future. They're sleek, they're silent and most importantly they're green right? But there's actually a twist in this tale. Lithium, this lightweight metal, is the heart of EV batteries and they power everything from your neighbor's car to potentially your own. But digging deeper we find that mining lithium might not be as clean as it sounds. From draining water resources to impacting local communities, it seems our green solutions have their own shades of grey. We'll explore the tough questions. How green are our green solutions? What cost do they come? And how can we solve this? So stick with us as we dive into these topics, ask the hard questions and maybe just find some answers along the way. So So first off, I mean we can start. Welcome to Digital Deep Dive. Unraveling the matrix where we decode the digit-digit- Welcome to Digital Deep Dive. Unraveling the matrix where we decode the digital world one byte at a time. I'm your host Munkirrit and with me is my co-host Ben. Welcome to Digital Deep Dive. Unraveling the matrix where we decode the digital world one byte at a time. I'm your host Munkirrit and with me is my co-host Ben. Today we're peeling back the layers of digital phenomena that shape our lives. In this episode we'll explore the unsustainability of lithium mining for electric vehicles and the cognitive currents of short-form media. We're diving into the research, the implications and the misconceptions. Stay tuned as we decode these topics and ask each other the hard-hitting questions. First up on our radar, platforms like TikTok and Instagram Reels have us all hooked, haven't they? In mere minutes you can laugh, cry, learn a new dance or get a quick new fix. But have you ever wondered what the fast-flood style of media consumption is doing to us? There's a growing concern that our appetites for quick, digestible content might be nibbling away at our attention spans and even numbing our emotional responses. In a world of endless scrolling, what are we truly gaining and what might we be losing? Switching gears, let's talk about the whirlwind world of short-form media. Lithium mining for electric vehicles. Switching gears, we're going to talk about lithium mining for electric vehicles. You've probably heard that EVs are the future, right? They're sleek, silent and most importantly, green. But there's a twist in this eco-friendly tale. Lithium, this lightweight metal, is the heart of EV batteries and they power everything from your neighbor's car to potentially your own. But digging deeper, we find that mining lithium isn't as clean as it might sound. From draining water resources to impacting local communities, it seems our green solutions might have their own shades of grey. We'll explore the tough questions. How green are our solutions? What cost did it come? And what can we do about it? So stick with us as we dive into these topics, ask the hard questions and maybe just maybe, find some answers along the way. Move on from that as you want. Like if you ever need to ask questions in between those, switch to that. What do you think? Okay, okay. Because those are like, I guess they're framed well. We'll get through like most of topics for both of us. You want to try that? Yeah. Okay, how do you want to start it? Do you want to start it or should I start it? Um, how about, how about I go like, okay, I use these things every day, and you're saying there might be a problem with it. Tell me. Okay. What do you mean? Three, two, when I say action, like wait like two, three seconds, so that it's easier to cut. Three, two, one, action. So, I use YouTube shorts every day, I watch Instagram reels every day, and you're telling me there might be a problem with this. Now, what do you mean? Mm-hmm. So, in the last few years, there's been this big rise of short-form media, and very particularly, not just your average YouTube videos or, or TV shows, but rather vertical format videos on your phone. And most people might think this is a really good thing. Mm-hmm. Shit, okay. We're gonna fix this. Okay, again, again. Try going with the questions, like say what you want, and then go into your first question. Okay, I was asking the first question, thinking that you could introduce the platforms. Okay. And then, and then talk about, like the topics to discuss first, right? Mm-hmm. And after that, I'll ask you the compelling questions. Okay. Okay, ask it again. So, from the start, okay. Okay, now I use Instagram reels every day, and I watch YouTube shorts all the time. I love it, and you're telling me there's a problem with this? Now, can you tell me what you mean? Yes, so, you want to do, okay, here's what I'm thinking. I want to go into it, but the issue is, that's like deep into the thing, right? We need background first, right? Like systematically, like same with like your easy thing. Oh, you want to introduce it. Yeah, introduce it. You know, first, I'll ask a question about how crucial it is, how crucial this thing is to the future of transportation, right? And then, why it's bad and stuff, right? If I right away go into the measures people are taking, it's kind of weird, right? So, try to follow like the questions. Like, I think it'll be good, because if we just keep going on our... Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. You get what I mean, right? Yeah, I understand, I understand. So, you want me to ask what has driven the meteoric rises? Yeah. Okay. Okay, start. Okay, Mankir. Every day, I see all my friends using YouTube shorts, Instagram reels, and honestly, I don't even remember when this whole thing started. Can you tell me what drove this rise of short-form media platforms recently? Yeah, sure. So, this started, I would say early 2016, and it grew to a noticeable level in 2017. And this all started by TikTok. So, TikTok was the first major vertical format video platform. And this was a big deal as it might not seem like a big thing, but it really was. We've been carrying around phones for many years now, and usually when we were to watch content on them, we would turn them horizontally, and that puts us in more of like this relaxed mode, as if we're ready to enjoy content. But with vertical video formats, we are already in the format to consume content. So, when TikTok was first introduced, people got really addicted because they didn't feel like they had to be in a state of relaxation to really consume TikTok. The videos were really short, and they were very engaging, and people have naturally short attention spans. So, it was something that you could mindlessly scroll on while you're on the bus, waiting at a stoplight, or doing any task that doesn't involve much brainpower. So, you think that this became such a huge thing because of the ease of access? Yeah, definitely. I think there's this level of autonomy to it. Like, say you want to relax for a bit. So, you sit down on your sofa, and you'll watch a movie. You'll pick out a movie out of thousands of options. The difference with platforms like TikTok and YouTube Reels is, you're not really choosing what you want to watch. You're being given it. You're being given it by this algorithm, which we'll go into more later. But, it's much easier to consume this content, as you don't have the stress of picking what you want to watch. Well, yeah. And I feel like nowadays, everybody is always on it, right? And I'm wondering, is there some sort of, is there some alteration to our attention spans? Because I feel like I might be noticing a little bit of that. Yeah. So, one of the biggest things I discussed in my research paper was its effect to attention spans. So, humans, naturally, have pretty short attention spans without even the use of social media. But these attention spans, these short ones, are magnified to levels we can't even comprehend after extensive use of these platforms. There has been lots of studies in the past few years, and these studies all point towards the fact that short-form media content is significantly reducing the attention spans of all sorts of users. And you can even see this in yourself sometimes. If you're someone who consumes a lot of these platforms, if you're scrolling on Instagram all the time, you'll notice that you don't even want to watch movies or TV shows as much. You'll start them, and within the first 20-30 minutes, especially if it's a slower start, you'll want to stop. Because you're so used to this type of very quick, dopamine-hitting content, that you're not used to being able to watch content that's slow, that isn't necessarily these spontaneous hits every few minutes. That's true. Honestly, sometimes I'm watching Netflix, and then during a particularly slow part of it, I'll just pull out Instagram. I'll be watching Instagram while watching Netflix, and it's this whole big, massive attention span and stuff, you know? Yeah, I've seen this happen to myself as well, and I thought it was pretty weird. I never really acknowledged it until I did this research. I thought it was really interesting. So do you think the reason why we're so attracted to the short-form media also is partly because of the algorithms and what they're able to do? Yeah, so the algorithms play a big, big role. And this will tie into our second point as well, which we'll go on later. But these algorithms, their single purpose, their one and only purpose, is to keep you on the app for as long as possible. The algorithms are not designed to give you the most happy content, the most funny content, the most informative content. It is simply what will keep you on the app longest. And the way they often do this is by a really, really wide mixture of many different types of content. So this algorithm, it will give you a funny video, and then the very next video will be someone jumping off a cliff, or someone getting beaten or in a fight. And then the very next clip could be cats, cute cats playing on a sofa. So what this does to us is it puts us through these really quick bursts of emotions within a very short span. So an average Reel or TikTok is between 15 seconds and a minute. So you can imagine in the span of five minutes, you could be changing emotions dozens and dozens of times. And this, this really does attract you to these types of videos. But it also does a lot to your mental well being and how you perceive stress. We'll discuss later. But I think this is one of the biggest ways that algorithms promote users to stay on apps as long as possible. And what do you mean by like, how you sort of feel stressed? I mean, like, do you get desensitized? Do you like, do you not care about? Yeah. So my second biggest point that I discussed in my research was desensitization. So there's bad things happen around the world all the time, all the time. But very recently, has humanity come to a point where seeing the most horrific news happen on a completely different content is easier than ever. You can, you have access to it every day, all day. And often, you're not even choosing to watch it, but it's given to you because it's, it's what keeps people hooked. And a lot of people might say, well, this is great. This is great for promoting activism, for, for raising funds, you know. And this is, this is a big part of social media. Don't get me wrong, this isn't necessarily a bad thing all the time. But it's important to understand that we don't have control over everything that happens in the world. So is it really worth having to know everything going on all the time, especially negative news? I think this is, this is a really personal thing to everyone. Say your town is having floods and, or hunger problems. These are, these aren't the most massive issues, right? And what might end up happening is you're desensitized to the issues around you due to much more catastrophic events like earthquakes or terror attacks in other continents. So at what point is, is your sanity really worth knowing what's happening around the world? So you're telling me that this sort of, these algorithms recommending these sort of weird, like, kind of horrifying videos, this is chipping away at some people's sanity? Yeah, most, most definitely. It really does take a toll on our, on ourselves. I don't think humans, at least where we're at right now, are equipped with the emotional intelligence to thoroughly be consuming the amount of information that most humans are consuming today. Okay. So what, what, what do you recommend we do about it? What sort of skills, what sort of strategies should we have to cope with this, this problem and these, like, this flurry of short-form media we're seeing every single day? I think the biggest thing we could do is make digital literacy available to, to everyone. I think everyone should be understanding of the information they're consuming, how they're consuming, and how these algorithms specifically push this content. For an average user who, who uses TikTok or Instagram Reels, they'll get a lot of, a lot of this really negative content on their feed. And they'll often think that nothing is, nothing's going well, there's always issues. But I think it's important for people to, to understand that negative news is often, is often the news that is the most interesting to watch. It's what gets the most clicks. It's what these news companies want you to see. It's what will keep you on the platform or the app the longest. So, so if there's, if there's news about a cat being saved from a tree, you'll likely not see that. But if there's, if there's news about six billionaires going to the bottom of the ocean and being lost for a few days, that will be all over your feed. So digital literacy, I would say is one of the biggest factors that can help you negate the effects of desynthesization on you and your, your friends and families on a daily basis. Okay. So after doing all this research, do you think there's any particular common myths about short form media or misconceptions people have? Yeah. So, so one of the biggest ones I discussed earlier as well was how short form media is not just any other type of media. We, we really cannot compare it to, to watching... What happened? We can hear it. Hear what? Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we kind of touched on this earlier as well, but one of the biggest misconceptions is that short form media cannot be compared to other types of media in the same way. It's, it's really very, very different. And the biggest thing, as I mentioned earlier, is the fact that we're not choosing our own content. And this drastically puts us in this, in this state where we're, we're generally being mindless, where we're doom scrolling. We don't know what we want, but we want something. I'm sure when you're scrolling, you've had this feeling where you, you want to stop and you don't, you keep scrolling and you, you don't know what you're looking for. And you're like, this is fine. I have some free time. I'm just, I'm just doing my thing. I'm just scrolling. But when you take a step back and look at what's happening, it's kind of sad. Like imagine, imagine a dog in a backyard and he's digging for, for something, maybe a bone, maybe some food, but he's, he's just digging. He doesn't know what he's digging. And we'd, we'd call that kind of sad. We'll call, we'd call that still in a sense. But that's, that's really us where we're mindlessly scrolling and we don't know what we're looking for. We know we want dopamine, but we don't, we don't know the content that we actually want. So it's, it's really dangerous in a way. Yeah. So you mentioned this term doomscrolling earlier. What do you mean by that? I'm going to take my time. Yeah. So, so negative content is not just incidental exposure during scrolling, but rather the social media companies, they use this fact to, but rather social media. So negative content is not just incidental exposure during scrolling, rather social media users they often attend to negative information in their news feeds about crises, disasters, and tragedies, tragedies, tragedies. So social media users persistently attend to negative information about their, social media users persistently attend to negative information in their news feeds about crises, disasters, and tragedies. This media habit is what we define as doomscrolling. This media habit is what we define as doomscrolling. So doomscrolling represents a specific aspect of a broader, broader, so doomscrolling represents a specific, doomscrolling represents a specific aspect of the broader phenomenon of passive social media usage. This habit involves users, particularly men and younger adults, and politically active individuals immersing themselves in prolonged sessions of consuming negative news. Before the term doomscrolling ever even existed, before the term doomscrolling, I feel like this part, it's like you're still, you're reading at this point. This part you're reading. I'm kind of reading. Yeah. We need to make it more conversational. Oh. Wait. What do you think we're up to now? Like, for the questions? I think we need to do a lot of, redo a lot of parts. Like, it was pretty bad sometimes. Okay, do you want to redo? I think you need to talk more. Yeah, but I don't know what to say. Because after you finish, like, what you're talking about, I just, like, should I just transition to the next? Okay. You know what? Maybe, just maybe, I might know about, I might know more about your topic than you know about my topic. Right? So maybe we'll do yours first. Like, we'll put it first. Okay. We'll see, we'll see it later. We'll see. I mean, I know, I know about what, I know your topic. I just don't know what to add. I know, I get that, I get that. Because it feels like you just, like, said something, and I agree with it already, so. We should just say something, and I'll be like, yeah, that's, that's really interesting. I didn't realize that. And then say example, say something funny. Yeah, I think we need to be more natural, man. Okay, ask the question about doomscrolling again. So what do you actually mean when you say doomscrolling? Yeah, doomscrolling. So, it's something that a lot of us find ourselves doing, probably more often than we'd like to admit. You know when you're on your phone, just flipping through news feeds or social media, and you start diving deep into negative news? Like one minute you're checking the weather, and the next, you know, you're in an hour deep into articles about global crises, climate disasters, or even just general states of the world falling apart. It's like there is this weird, um, magnetic, it's like that, it's like there's this weird magnet pulling you to keep scrolling through bad news after bad news, even though it's the last thing you need before, before bed. It's like, it's like there's this weird magnet pulling you to keep scrolling through bad news after bad news, even though it's the last thing you need before bed. And the crazy part? You can't seem to stop. It's almost like watching a train wreck in slow motion. It's unsettling, but you're hooked. That's, that's doomscrolling in a nutshell. I think it's kind of ironic. We hope, I think it's kind of ironic. We, we hope, what's going on? What are you talking about? Okay. I think it's kind of ironic. We hop online to relax or distract ourselves for a bit, and we end up dragging ourselves through this endless barrage of doom and gloom. And sure, staying informed is important, but there's a thin, and sure, staying informed is important, but there's a thin line between being aware and overwhelming ourselves with so much negativity that it starts messing with our, with our heads. And sure, staying informed is important, but there's a thin line between being aware and overwhelming ourselves with so much negative, with so much negativity that it starts messing with our heads. I'm, I'm not good at cutting up. Like, I, I'm going to cut up so much. Okay. Um, what, what would we move to now? Okay. Do you think we're, we're on to point seven now? Kind of talked about that. Um, so eight. Wait, no, we can move on to, I mean, we're done. Are we done with your topic? I just feel like it wasn't that deep. It wasn't, right? Yeah. What else do you want to talk about in your topic? Let's see. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, here's a big thing. Let's talk about the algorithm, I guess. Can we talk about that? But more, more in-depth. Okay. Uh, so you ask about, can you expand more about, uh, who controls these algorithms? And, um, if doomscrolling is so, uh, dangerous, then what steps are, what steps are the social media is taking to resolve this? And should there be any external, um, or government involvement in this? So who actually decides what these algorithms are? And like, if doomscrolling is so bad for you, then why don't, why don't these social media companies just do something to stop that? So these algorithms, like I said earlier, they are completely designed to keep you hooked for as long as possible. And social media is often admit this. They, they say that, social media is often admit this. They, they say that scrolling for hours can be dangerous for health. Uh, apps like Instagram have, have timers on them and all sorts of things to remind you that you, that you keep. And these, uh, apps like Instagram have all sorts of reminders of them. And these apps like Instagram have all sorts of reminders on them to let you know when you've been scrolling for a while. But as far as I've looked into this, I felt like these are more just displays of, but from what I've seen about this, most of the things that the social media companies most of the things that the social media companies do for our mental health is basically just showing off. Or from what I've seen about these social medias trying to care about our mental health is just them trying to meet their quotas with the government to show that they, they kind of care. When at the end of the day, they, they really, and I truly mean this, don't. Okay. So do you think the government should like enforce something? Isn't that, that's like possible? So government involvement. So this is a pretty big thing that comes up, uh, when talking about this. And that seems like a pretty logical conclusion. And I'll, I'll tell you why I think that government involvement might actually be a good idea. So, so recently, um, the CEO of MEDA was under big, big fire at an online child safety hearing in the US. Essentially, you could be scrolling on Instagram and you'll, you'll come across a post and it'll have one of those warnings on it. And, and here's one of them. These results may contain images of child sexual abuse, child sexual abuse, or viewing sexual imagery of children can lead to imprisonment and other severe personal consequences. This abuse can cause extreme harm to children and searching and viewing such material adds to the harm. So, so this is a warning that users are prompted with. And, and believe this, there are two options underneath this warning. The first option is a blue box saying, get resources. And the second option, I kid you not, it says, see results anyways. Can you believe that? How, how ridiculous is that? Yeah. So basically they're just like, oh, this is, this might be illegal. You know, this is terrible, terrible stuff. We're going to let you see it anyways. They, they clearly have shown that they really don't care. So I think as much as there's many complications with government involvement into moderating these algorithms, I think they would do a better job than, than the social media platforms as they keep showing that they, they really don't care. Government involvement is not necessarily easy either. There's a lot of debate about how the government themselves might have different agenda. Not all governments are, are bad, but every government to some extent has, has members who, who have their own plans and might not be for the, the best interest of the, of the country they're serving. I think there are issues, but these issues are, are worth some sort of moderation. Yeah. I don't think it would necessarily be the worst thing. It would be better than, than what we currently have. But what do you think about those issues that people have with the government controlling like a, like a company, like a capitalist company? You know what I mean? Yeah, I get what you mean. One of the biggest arguments from these, these companies ends is that when you, when you sign up to Instagram, when you sign up to, to Facebook, to Twitter, to YouTube, whatever it is, you click a lot of check marks, a lot of them. And these are, these are not necessarily, you click a lot of check marks and boxes. And these are to kind of keep them out of trouble. A lot of them involve you not being able to see, sue them. But these companies are so big that at some point these governments can't just ignore their impact. They have to hold them liable regardless of, of you clicking all these boxes saying that they're not responsible for any, any harm to your mental health that being on these platforms really cause. So I think with government involvement, we would definitely see improvement in, in the mental health of, of youth and all sorts of users. Because the government does seem to care about our health, maybe a little bit. Cause maybe the government does, to some extent, care about our health slightly, very, very slightly more than these, these social media companies do. Okay. So you think that, um, the government involvement and control of these issues is actually outweighs the potential problems such as like, you know, concerns over propaganda, like government propaganda, government trying to control the sort of narrative and, um. I do. I really do. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's definitely a very interesting topic, but I think government control is, is much better than, than the algorithms that these companies themselves are promoting. And I mean, this issue itself isn't a very easy fix either. There's going to be a lot of complications. Um, a lot of people in the government are really old and don't know how these algorithms work. It's hard to explain them these things, but I think they, they care about our health more than, more than these companies do. And that's, that's my personal take on this. And that's what a lot of people think. Uh, there will be a lot of people who say it'll be really easy to sway elections and all sorts, and commit all sorts of propaganda. But I guess that's one of the challenges of this, of this solution. Got it. You can go back and forth wherever you want. So I think you actually talked about FOMO in your research paper, right? I did. A little bit. Okay. Actually, no, no, no. Okay. So in your research paper, after reading your research paper, I remember thinking about the personality traits and how they, wait, let me do that again. So when I was reading your research paper, I remember thinking it's pretty interesting how you analyze personality traits and how they, uh, sort of relate to the effects of social media addiction. And I remember you saying how neuroticism would worsen the effects of social media addiction. So can you kind of explain a little bit behind that? Only cash. I think we need to go on to mine. Well, you ask him about the FOMO honestly, that's fine. So I remember you writing about FOMO in your research paper as well. So personally, I see that as my friends went out. I feel like I'm missing out. So how does that do with social media addiction? So FOMO actually ties back into the discussion we had earlier about doom scrolling. The reason that humans are attracted to all sorts of negative content is still pretty vague. We don't know exactly why, but we do think it's linked to two big things. One of them being the ancestral instinct to know the negative things happening around you. As often, these negative pieces of news would keep us on our toes and they would keep us vigilant for possible threats. And the other thing, perhaps more modern, would be FOMO, the fear of missing out. We often want to know what's going on all the time. Oh no, I should have said it the other way. Okay, say it again. Okay, so in your research paper, you also talked about FOMO. Now to me, that just means my friends went out, I had to do my homework. I'm feeling pretty sad about it. Now what does that have to do with social media addiction? So FOMO comes into play with doom scrolling, which we discussed earlier. One of the reasons that we do like doom scrolling, mindlessly, is due to FOMO, the fear of missing out. We often really do want to know the news happening around us. And this isn't something that we have plenty of research on, but we often think it's linked to our ancestral instincts of staying attuned to threats. Knowing about possible threats and negative news around us keeps us vigilant. Although this might not be necessary in modern times, it's definitely still in our instinctual habits. I see. Okay. All right, how about like... Switch up, switch up. Okay. How long are we at right now? Like 40 something. But there's a lot of empty. Do you think we have 20 minutes worth of stuff? Honestly, we don't even need to hit 40. Even if we hit like 30 something, that's fine. Because we want quality, not quantity. Yeah. Okay. Let's start about about yours. Okay. Let's switch tracks for a bit and let's talk about Ben's topic on lithium mining for electric vehicles. So, Ben, I read through your paper and I found it pretty interesting. I had quite a few compelling questions to ask you. So, how crucial is lithium to the future of transportation and electric vehicles? Okay. When we think about how crucial lithium is, you first have to think about electric vehicles and how they are crucial to our future. Now, currently, most of our transportation in the world is using internal combustion engines. And how they generate energy for transportation is to burn fuel and diesel. And this process would release harmful gases like CO2 and other greenhouse gases. And these obviously cause respiratory problems and they worsen climate change. So, one of the most pushed solutions to this problem is electric vehicles. And this is because electric vehicles, which rely on electric motors powered by batteries, produce no emissions. And that's why lithium is such a crucial material. I don't like that. Let's do that again. Just start from the last sentence. And we'll cut it up. No, just ask, how crucial is lithium? Actually, yes, ask how crucial is lithium. So, Ben, how crucial is lithium to the future of transportation? So, Ben, how crucial is lithium to the future of transportation and electric vehicles? So, lithium is crucial to electric vehicles because electric vehicles obviously require batteries. And lithium-ion batteries are one of the most preferred form of batteries because it's high-density, and it's a high-voltage battery. So, lithium-ion batteries are one of the most preferred form of batteries because it's high-density and it allows recharging, which makes them the most popular choice. And it enables longer ranges for electric vehicle driving and shorter charging times. So, that's why lithium is so important. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, in the past few years, I've seen a massive increase in electric vehicles, especially Teslas, actually. I heard they came out with a new truck recently, right? Pretty cool. Yeah, I mean, it's a huge thing now. Most countries in the world are aiming for the zero emissions by some time of year, some year in the future, right? And even the United Nations is pushing for electric vehicles. The United Nations Environment Program, they launched their Global Electricity Mobility Program in 2019, and they basically support 50 low- and middle-income countries in their shift to electric transport. And Canada itself, the Canadian government has also established the Electric Vehicle Availability Standard, and it's basically a requirement that 100% of new light-duty vehicles offered for sale by 2035 are going to be zero emission electric vehicles. So, we can see that it's not just from commercial companies like Tesla and even Xiaomi, that phone company recently released a new electric vehicle. It's not just in these corporations, but the government is also in full support of this new shift to electric vehicles. Interesting. So, you mentioned there's a lot of government support with EVs. Do you really think the goals that are being set by these governments are attainable in the near future? So, I think they're attainable, but most of these sort of 2050, 2030 goals are really just to show that they care, right? I see. It's not like we can exactly calculate every step of the process. How can we improve research? How can we speed up research to make it exactly on time, right? But I think the overall sentiment is good. It's just the fact that all of these governments are trying to rush towards zero emissions might cause some problems because the electric vehicles and the production of electric vehicles isn't exactly entirely clean and they definitely do need to be improved. So, Ben, tell me this. If I were to go out and look for an EV to buy for myself, would there be any big tax rebates or discounts as far as the government goes in terms of promoting users to buy EVs? Oh, yeah, for sure. All around the world, there's tax rebates. Yeah, for sure. All around the world, there's tax rebates, incentives. Governments are definitely pushing for the consumption of EVs. And in China, you can see this is a huge thing as well. They're basically subsidizing 30% to 40% of their EV industry and they're betting that this is going to be the future. I see. So, from the looks of it, EVs get a pretty green and sustainable wrap on them from all sorts of people. However, you mentioned that there are some environmental impacts of creating EVs, particularly involving the mining of lithium. So, could you go a little more deeper into this? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, my research involves finding out the effects of lithium mining. And one of the biggest ones are about water usage and water pollution in lithium extraction. So, lithium extraction is currently one of the biggest and most used ways of lithium mining. And what this does is that lithium brine extraction pumps water from within the cracks and pores and rocks and soil underground. And this water is usually dissolved with lithium, so they pump it out and evaporate it. And as you might imagine, all the water is now evaporated and decreases the groundwater reservoirs. And this is actually a huge problem because in many of these regions, they often experience droughts. And the underground water is actually really crucial for maintaining ecosystems. And they supply water that is less susceptible to immediate effects of droughts. And on top of this, the chemicals used in extraction processes also often pollute the groundwater. So, one study that I looked at in the Nature Review's Earth and Environment Journal, they found that 90% of the original water content in brine is lost during evaporation. So, this is a huge hit to communities around the lithium mines. And also, obviously, leads to some further ecosystem damage when the water levels become lower. That's pretty interesting to hear. So, it seems like it does have quite an impact on the environment. From the research that you've done, what do you think is... So, it seems like the mining of lithium isn't that green after all, at least how green people promote it to be. So, would you say that mining lithium is better than having non-EV cars? Well, yeah. I think in the long term, EVs is something that we have to invest in. Because at the end of the day, internal combustion engines, they will always be releasing harmful gases and it makes up a large percent of pollution today. So, there's no doubt that we need to transition to EVs. But it's just about making sure that we set up the correct processes and make sure that sustainable operations are being made in lithium mining before we rush to make this the new thing. So, Ben, where does most of this lithium come from? And which parts of the world does it really affect? And the places where it's mined from, is it mined ethically? Do the workers get paid much? What's the process of mining it? So, the largest regions where lithium mining occurs is in green bushes in Australia. And the second place is Salar de Atacama, which is in Chile. And the second place is where I've investigated my research. And to answer whether workers are paid well, whether this is very ethical, the answer is no, this is not very ethical. And often the workers there are put into pretty terrible conditions. And it's not just about the workers. The local communities and indigenous populations are often affected. And you can actually see that in SDA in Chile, once lithium mining operations started, there was a much bigger rise in social activism. And the people around those communities were not happy about it at all. So, would you say that this unethically mined lithium is more at the fault of these companies mining the lithium? Or would it be to the car manufacturers that may or may not be asking for very, very low prices from these companies? So, I think at the end of the day, I think at the end of the day, it is the lithium mining companies problem. But the main issue is, I think, the regulations around this. Because everybody wants low cost, cheaper cars, yeah, low cost, good profit. That's just how businesses run. But what can minimize and mitigate these problems is the regulations surrounding these practices. And in Chile, they do have a national lithium strategy, which, you know, tries to maximize on the supply of lithium they have. But after much research, a lot of research papers show that it's not doing enough to mitigate the side effects. So, um, yeah, wait a minute. Yeah, you want to answer it again? Okay, what did I ask again? You asked, like, whose fault is it? All right, right. I'll ask you again. So, Ben, tell me this. So, Ben, this unethically mined lithium, do you think it's more at the fault of the car manufacturers or at the fault of these companies? Like, I get that people want cheaper cars, but where does the issue derive from? No, I think you're exactly right. Everybody wants cheaper cars. So, I think the responsibility actually lies on the government. Because the lithium mining companies are always going to try to minimize their costs. And the car companies are always trying to get the supply for cheaper. So, it's actually the responsibility of the government to create regulations that ensure that this lithium is mined ethically and with less of an environmental footprint. So, recently, I've heard of this new thing called hydrogen-powered cars. Have you heard of these before? Yeah, I've heard of them. How do these compare to EV cars? So, one thing I've heard is that hydrogen cars seem to be more sustainable. I don't know, I actually don't know. I don't know about hydrogen cars. Okay, I'll read that part. So, Ben, recently, I've heard about hydrogen cars. So, Ben, with all this in mind about the mining of lithium for EVs, do you think that there are So, Ben, with all this in mind about mining lithium, do you think there are any alternatives that can be used in place of lithium to create these batteries? So, there definitely is other materials that can be used to power batteries. But I think what the main thing that we should be focusing on is not replacing lithium, but replacing the lithium extraction methods. So, one new research paper conducted some experimentation and found that direct lithium extraction across actually various studies, which means to use resin or absorbent to extract lithium directly without evaporating water, would reduce the environmental effects of lithium mining drastically. So, you wouldn't have to pump the water out, you're just using absorbents to extract the lithium. And one other way would be desalination techniques that recover water from brine for reuse. So, while you're extracting the lithium from the brine, instead of allowing the water to evaporate, they try to use desalination, which would allow the water to be recovered. And the last piece of research that I looked at was froth flotation, which is a mineral separation process. And researchers would obtain lithium from rocks that form from cool magma. And this process, again, wouldn't really require evaporating water, and this would mitigate the sort of environmental issues. So, I know we kind of have this talk when it comes to fossil fuels pretty often, but lithium, much like fossil fuels, can be seen as a non-renewable energy source. Although lithium isn't the energy itself, it's the batteries that hold energy, and these batteries, they eventually, they do die. So, are we ever going to run out of lithium? Is that a concern? Will it become harder to mine in the future? Or is there just plenty of it? I think, currently, there's quite a plentiful supply of lithium in the world. And what many researchers are working on is recycling it, actually. So, once the batteries run out, they can be, 20% of it, actually, can be reproduced through recycling processes. And this can be reused so that less lithium is wasted, and it becomes a more long-term process. So, I want to know, what do you think about the future of lithium, then? I mean, there's many aspects that play to this, but I want to know what you think about lithium mining, and how EVs will really play out in the short-term and the long-term future. So, my prediction is that, with so many governments backing electric vehicles, and this obviously increasing the demand for lithium production, is that it's only going to ever increase. But what I want to happen is to ensure that everybody's educated on the side effects of these problems. And I really hope that governments will put better regulations onto these processes. And, in particular, I found that, actually, there's around five main issues with the current regulations. So, firstly, many of these mining companies, they're quite irresponsible with hazardous materials and waste management. So, we need to make identifying, documenting, and managing hazardous waste, we need that to be more mandatory. And another thing that we need is more air quality and water quality management. So, a lot of these companies, they aren't really advanced in terms of hydrological modeling. So, they need to be able to make sure that where they're extracting water from, it's actually possible to do without damaging surrounding areas. And a third thing is that they need to remember that they need to communicate with surrounding communities and make sure they monitor and investigate the sort of impacts they make. So, they could maybe develop a framework to monitor and address the sort of impacts of mining operations on neighboring communities, because this is a very clearly lacking area of research. These sound like pretty big endeavors on the part of these governments and these companies. Do you think that most of these can be achieved? Or are they just kind of fluff to show proposed solutions that make governments in the West feel better about how these batteries, and more particularly the lithium... Do you think that these goals are kind of just fluff to make people and consumers think that there is effort towards lithium being mined ethically? Or do you think it'll actually happen? So, that's a complicated question, because it's not like the governments don't know that this is an issue that needs to be tackled. But it's the fact that even after pledging to reduce the impacts in Chile's national lithium strategy, I was able to find that through some audit reports and mine assessment reports, that these were the key areas that were lacking. So, these areas, they need to be addressed. And despite the fact that these governments are claiming that they're doing their best, they need to be doing better in these areas. I think that's a pretty solid answer. So, do you think that there's any major misconceptions that people often have about EVs? I know you've kind of discussed a few of these, but are there any big ones that you'd like to point out that I think the listeners would want to hear about? Yeah, my main message is that EVs are not perfect. And even while we've already discussed the production process, but even during the usage of EVs, even though they don't directly emit pollution and greenhouse gases, we also have to take into account the grid mix. So, where are you getting the energy that is being used to charge EVs? Just because we're using EVs doesn't mean that the electricity was completely generated in a green sort of way. If the energy from the charging stations was made from also burning fossil fuels, then at the end of the day, the EVs are still causing greenhouse gas emissions, which are exacerbating climate change. So, the main message is that we need to focus on improving everything around EVs, the whole process from production, usage, and recycling. And each of these areas is very key to achieving these goals, these great, amazing, very optimistic goals that the governments have. Sounds pretty interesting. Maybe one day we'll have some extraterrestrial life show up and provide us with some never-ending, infinite, renewable energy source. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah. I think there's quite a few similarities between both of our research topics. I think one of the biggest being about how there's a big need for government control in certain areas. I think in terms of social media, there definitely needs to be monetization. I think in terms of social media, there definitely needs to be some moderation of algorithms and how they're controlled. And with your topic, there should definitely be government controls with how the lithium is ethically mined. Yeah. And another thing I found is that actually there's a big issue between both our topics about miscommunication. So in your topic about short-form content, you see that lots of people think that the short-form content is a little bit nagging. It doesn't feel good when you're always watching short-form media over and over and you forget where you spent your past two hours. But the miscommunication is where the deeper issues aren't communicated. The problems with addiction, the problems with desensitization, they're not really explored in media. And in the same way, I feel like the problems with EVs are not explored well enough. They're only portrayed as a silver bullet solution in media. And what needs to be done is that both of these issues have to be uncovered and they need to be better explored. I agree. I agree. I really do think that the most dangerous thing with our topics and many other topics similar to these is where there is some issue that is very apparent. And that very apparent, easily fixable solution makes the whole issue seem like it's nothing, like there's no problem. And that can be dangerous. That gives people this idea that I'm aware of what's happening and it's okay when actually the issues go much, much deeper. Exactly. So people probably think that entertainment, social media, it's been here for a while. They probably think that it's just another form of social media. Yes. Just like when Netflix was released. Just like YouTube, right? But they don't realize the deeper issues. Yeah. Likewise, with EVs, people often consider the most surface-level arguments. I often hear from people who don't like EVs that the biggest issue with EVs is that the energy from the batteries is often coming from non-renewable energy sources. And that seems like a much, much smaller issue than all the issues that we've discussed about lithium mining in this episode. I think it was a really productive episode. I think I learned quite a lot. Me too. So thank you everyone for joining us today in our podcast. Thank you for tuning in to the Digital Deep Dive. For sure. Stick around for our next podcast. We'll be talking about Elon Musk and his first Neuralink patient. Yeah. That lizard. The extraterrestrial lizard. Yes. All right. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you. Catch you next time. Bye-bye. Bye. Now, are there any sections you want to redo? Just keep recording, honestly. It's fine. Are there any sections you want to redo? I don't know. Overall, it didn't seem that good, honestly. Nothing seemed that good. Yeah. I think he said, like, oh, you guys shouldn't prepare too much. No, we shouldn't prepare fully. Right? Yeah. If we scripted everything, that would be so much better. I feel like that's horrible. Yeah. Fuck. Hello? Hello? Yeah. Hello? Checking? Okay. Okay. We're back. This is after, I think. Okay. Three, two, one. Go. So, Ben. I've started with still Ben so many times. Okay, Ben. So, are there any big figures, possibly politicians or social media influence? So, Ben, are there any big figures or, like, tech CEOs that have... So, Ben, are there any big politicians or tech CEOs or people who are pretty big figures in the tech world that are talking about lithium and have any specific takes on this? I should ask a better question. What should I ask? I don't think you need to ask a question. I think it's just an introduction to this. Okay. So, I should just start? I'll just say it. Okay. Okay. So, moving on to EVs. Recently, Bloomberg published an article detailing how electric cars are soon passing the tipping point to mass adoption in 31 countries. And what does this mean? Well, over five percent of new cars sales now are purely electric. And according to Bloomberg Green's analysis... Okay. Wait. I think we should do it as a question because this doesn't, this can't be the first thing we say, right? Why? Like, the introduction. Because it shows that, like, a lot of people are using it. And then what did you ask? I just asked, like... What is lithium? How crucial is lithium, right? Because they need, like, a background to lithium, you know? Otherwise, there's, like, gaps. I feel like this is a background to EVs, which leads to lithium, right? Okay. I guess that's fine. Let's do it. Three, two... So, let's move on to lithium and electric vehicles. Now, Bloomberg recently published an article saying that electric vehicles are passing the tipping point to mass adoption in 31 countries. What they mean is that over five percent of new car sales in 31 countries are becoming purely electric. And this threshold signals the start of a mass adoption. What's this going to... So, what's going to happen? No. Sorry. What's this going to lead to? Well, much, much more lithium production because lithium is the key material to the batteries that charge EVs. Okay. That's fine. So, put that in front of... Yeah. Okay. You're going to have to listen to so much. That's fine. That's fine. Just pause it for now, I guess. Is there anything you want to... So, what's up with TikTok, Instagram Reels, all these short videos? Since when did they start getting every... Imagine I'm putting the wrong take in here. So, what's up with TikTok, Instagram Reels, all these short-form video? Why are they everywhere now? Since when did this happen? Oh, man. The most real oh, man. Oh, man. Just don't say oh, man. You don't need to say oh, man. You don't need to say... Okay. Yeah. That's a... Yeah. That's a great question. It's like TikTok just exploded onto the scene, didn't it? So, back in 2017, when AI and machine learning were just starting to flex, TikTok popped up and basically rewrote the playbook. It wasn't just another social media platform. It was this perfectly mobile-optimized, algorithm-powered, vertical video format beast that knew exactly what you wanted to watch, even before you did. And it's not just TikTok anymore, right? Now we have Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts, and Facebook. They're all doing the short-form dance now. And they're all doing the short-form videos now. It's like, if you're... And it's not just TikTok anymore, right? Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts, and Facebook. They all have their own slightly different versions of these short-form video platforms. And they're full of all sorts of content. And they kind of have their own thing now, which is short... And they all kind of have their own thing now, which is videos of people dancing. And it's like, if your content doesn't grab attention in a few seconds, it just... And now, it's like, if your content doesn't grab attention in a few seconds, it's just not going to cut it. We're now asked, so is this short-form media thing bad for us? I mean, it's kind of fun. So is this short-form media thing bad for us, though? It's pretty fun. It's pretty addicting. Yeah, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, isn't it? So on one hand, it's super entertaining and a great way to discover new stuff. But on the flip side, there's this concern about what it's doing to our brains. Are we just getting used to only paying attention for a hot minute before needing a new dopamine hit? Plus, there's this whole thing about becoming numb to the content because we're just bombarded with so much, so fast. It's not all doom and gloom, but yeah, there's definitely some stuff to think about there. Well, it still sounds kind of like you're reading, right? It's better than what we did before. Let's just say it like you're telling someone. And then say, with all this talk about the effects of short-form media, is there any good news? Say that. With all this doom and gloom talk about short-form media, is there any good news about this? Definitely. It's not all bad. For one, understanding how these platforms work and the kind of content they push our way can really help us become more mindful consumers. And the conversation around digital literacy is getting louder, which is great. It's about finding that balance, knowing how to take a break, and maybe even using these platforms to stay connected in positive ways. Plus, there's a ton of creative, uplifting content as well. It's not just about curating your feed. Plus, there's a ton of creative uplifting content out there. It's just about curating your feed to include more of that good stuff. And then, last question. Looking ahead, what do you think needs to happen with these short-form media? So, looking ahead, what do you think needs to happen with short-form media and how are we going to solve all these issues? Moving forward, there is a lot to talk about that needs more research, especially long-term studies, to really understand the effects of these platforms. There's a big push for more ethical design in social media apps, thinking about how features impact us, maybe tweaking them to encourage healthier use. Education is key, too, so helping people, especially younger users, to develop a critical eye towards what they consume online. It's about making the digital world a place that enhances our lives without it taking over. Okay, let me see if there are any more questions. Do you want me to ask you anything? Yeah. I think you need a lot more content, too, both of us. Can you ask me, aside from new technology, you mentioned that more research needs to be done. What sort of research? Me? Yeah, ask me. But when did I ask you about research? Look, you say, I mentioned research, so you say you mentioned research. What do you mean by that? Okay. Okay, so, Ben, earlier you mentioned more about, okay, so, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, fuck, bitch, okay. Okay, so, Ben, earlier you mentioned a little bit about research. Can you expand on what type of research you were talking about? Yeah, yeah. So, to minimize the destruction of underground aquifers, which are those groundwaters I talked about earlier and how the water is stored under, like, soil and rock, in order to minimize the destruction of this, a lot of research shows that there needs to be more hydrogeological modeling, and there also needs to be more data collection on the actual characteristics of brine and freshwater, and we need more quantitative information and hydrological data to determine what boundaries water extraction has. So, how much is excessive? How much is sustainable? And these sort of guidelines need to be made before mass adoption of EVs, mass production of lithium begins, and more specifically to Chile, like Salar de Atacama. I found that actually the water budget, they said, was based on an outdated and inadequate understanding of hydrological processes. So, a lot of these mine sites have been overestimating the sustainability of water resources. So, more focus, more research on cost on the environment and indigenous people and local communities is needed. I guess I don't know too much about this, and you mentioned a lot of water contamination. How dangerous is lithium for us? I mean, what can it really do? Oh, it's actually quite dangerous. According to some research that I was looking at for my paper, it actually showed that lithium can be fatal. Lithium in water can be fatal. So, you can imagine that sort of impact on local communities is really not ideal. Okay, so ask that again. Okay, that sounds pretty interesting. So, you mentioned a lot of water contamination, and I don't know too much about this, but I'm curious. How dangerous really is lithium for us? What does it really do to us? So, one of the papers I read said exactly that a concentration of lithium in blood graded in 20 milligrams poses a risk of death. So, as you can tell, lithium in water can be fatal, and 20 milligrams really doesn't seem like quite a lot. So, in the future, we really need to mitigate that sort of water contamination. Yeah, I'm going to ask that again. Okay, that sounds pretty interesting. So, Ben, you mentioned a lot of water contamination. I'm not too sure about lithium and its dangers. How exactly does lithium affect us? How dangerous is it? So, I'm going to ask that again. One of the research papers that I read said that a concentration of lithium in blood graded in 20 milligrams can pose a risk of death. So, you can imagine that all the water contamination and lithium being let into the water supply can actually cause serious health issues with the local community. Let me see if that works. Okay, I want you to ask, given the concerns about attention span and desynthesization, how should we be trying to limit our exposure to short-form media? How do we even start? Given the, sorry, what desynthesization? So, given the concerns around attention spans and desynthesization, should we be trying to limit our exposure to this media and how do we start? Given the problems with attention span and desynthesization, how should we be limiting our exposure to social media? That's a great question. It's not about cutting it out entirely, but being more mindful about our consumption. So, maybe start noticing how you feel after spending time on these platforms. If you're feeling more anxious and less focused, it might be a sign to take a break. Also, curating your feed to include content that's enriching and educational can make a big, big difference. So, setting specific times for social media and also making sure that you're balancing it with offline activities is another good strategy. It's about creating healthier relationships with these platforms because, in my opinion and the opinion of many researchers, social media and specifically short-form media is here to stay. So, rather than trying to avoid it at all costs, live with it. So, social media isn't inherently bad. It's about how we use it. For starters, following accounts that inspire or motivate you can turn your feed into a source of positivity. Many people find communities of support on these platforms, whether it's for mental health, hobbies, or personal development. Engaging in meaningful interactions rather than passively scrolling can also make your social media use more fulfilling. It's about being intentional with your time online and choosing content that adds value to your life. I kind of want to talk more about misinformation and miscommunication. How can we talk more about that? About my topic? Both. Both, okay. Okay, I want to say something. Yeah, say it. I think one thing about both our issues is that we all need to build a habit of not just accepting what we see online. So, once we hear these headlines, you know, this government is promoting EVs, what? I actually hit it and I heard it. One thing about miscommunication in both our topics is that I think everyone needs to build a better habit of not just accepting what they see online, even if it comes from a reliable source. So, let's say a big news outlet like CNBC is telling us that the US government is providing tax rebates for EVs because they are the next sustainable energy solution, next sustainable transport solution. We see that and we see that it's a reliable source, but it doesn't mean that everything they're saying is the whole truth, right? So, one thing we have to put into practice is probably having the habit of doing more research ourselves and then covering what it actually means. So, they say it's going to be the next best transport solution, right? But as I found out from my research, it's far from perfect. That's good. I like that. Okay. Ask, people often say that algorithms are making us more closed-minded by only showing us content that we agree with. Is that really the case? So, I've heard some people talk about how social media content might be actually making us more closed-minded. Is that really the case? That's a concern known as the echo chamber effect. And I guess there's some truth to it. So, algorithms do tend to show content based on what we've liked or interacted with in the past, which can limit our exposure to data and information. So, we can have diverse viewpoints. However, it's also on us to actively seek out different perspectives. Many platforms offer ways to explore new content areas or creators. So, while the algorithms might have a default setting to keep us in our comfort zones, we can definitely take steps to broaden our horizons. Okay. I'll ask. Is there a common belief that social media... Okay. Think of anything else you want me to ask you. I'll ask about habitat destruction and biodiversity loss. Okay. So, Ben, earlier we discussed about environmental impacts briefly. I want to know more about how this affects habitats of animals and more deeply in... Okay, say, what do you want me to ask you again? Habitats and biodiversity. Okay. So, Ben, earlier we discussed a little bit about the environmental impacts. I want to know more specifically about habitats and... Just say, just say... Habitats and what? Just say, okay, just ask... What did you say again? Just say, just say, lithium mining, like, this affects water. How does it affect the ecosystem? Okay. What was the second word? Habitats and... No, don't say it. I don't think... What was it? Biodiversity. But I don't, I don't... You want to? No. Okay. Just say ecosystems. Okay. So, Ben, earlier we discussed about how lithium mining affects... So, Ben, earlier we discussed a little bit about how lithium mining affects the environment. Could we go more deeper into that? I want to know, like, how specifically does it affect habitats and ecosystems around the mining point? So, as we've discussed, you know, it affects the water. It depletes water sources and often contaminates it. And obviously this would lead to some sort of ecological devastation. And some research has found that in SDA, in Chile, through satellite imagery that lithium mining in the Atacama salt flat actually came with degradation of vegetation lands, increase in land surface temperatures, loss in soil moisture, and areas around the mining operations also saw faster rates of environmental degradation and higher temperatures. So, this could also be... Another thing is that toxic chemicals in lithium were found in the ponds, processed waters, evaporite basins, and transported products. And all of these can worsen the air, water, and soil pollution, which ends up destroying the biodiversity and ecosystem. Interesting. Interesting. That's pretty cool. I didn't know about that. Pretty cool. Interesting. Interesting. Oh, that's really interesting. What? Interesting. Interesting. I didn't know about that. I guess these aren't things that are discussed very often. We should see shit like that a few times, and then you can put it in. Yeah. Oh, I see. I never really thought about that before. That's a really interesting take. I haven't heard that before. Good point, actually. That's a really abstract approach. I like that. I like that. Cool, man. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Totally. Mm-hmm. Totally. Oh, I see. That's how it works. And that brings me to my next point. And that brings me to my next point. So, what do I want to discuss next? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh. Can you ask me, like, how did you conduct your research? Should we—are we supposed to ask—should we look at some rubric? Oh, yeah. Okay. Boy, you're going to have to do some crazy editing. Quality of edits, intro, outro, special features. Okay. Special features, intro, outro, I'll do myself, for sure. I'll do those pretty well. Integration of research topics. You have to integrate them more. Integrate the research topics? Yeah. So, discuss more about how they're related. Mm-hmm. I said a little bit, but do you want to say something? Okay. You know, I'll ask you, actually, really quickly. Oh, CS24. Do you think we can— Let's move to CS24. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. There's no prep. It's literally just looking at efficiency of sorting algorithms. We literally did nothing today. So do you think we'll be done by 4? Maybe. But if we're not, like I promise you, it's literally nothing. I think there's no worksheet. I went at 9 a.m. today and they're just talking. If you really want, you can go I think at 7 o'clock or Wednesday at 7. I think there's a two-hour lecture and then there's a two-hour lecture in the morning tomorrow as well, right? I think. Okay, ask, with the rise of misinformation on social media, how can we ensure what we're consuming is accurate? With the rise of social media, how can we be sure that what we're hearing is actually accurate? With the rise of misconception. So with the rise of the misconceptions and misinformation in social media, how can we be sure that what we're seeing is actually accurate? So critical thinking is really crucial. Always consider the source of the information and look for credibility markers like expertise in the subject matter or citations of reputable sources. Okay, this is horrible. Cross-checking facts across multiple platforms. Okay, aim to shed light. Okay, I'm not doing that. So in terms of sustainability and consumption patterns, so in terms of sustainability and consumption patterns, I think both of our topics prompt us to reconsider our... I think both of our topics prompt us to reconsider our consumption patterns, whether it's the content we consume online or the resources we use to power our technologies. Just as short-form media encourages rapid consumption of digital content, the push for EVs reflects a growing demand for sustainable energy sources. Each area challenges us to think critically about sustainability, urging us to adopt more mindful and responsible consumption habits to protect our planet and ensure a sustainable future. Sounds horrible. True. Okay, at the heart of both of our topics lies technology... At the heart of both of our topics lies technological innovation and accompanying ethical considerations. So the development of social... So the development of short-form media platforms and lithium mining technologies really shows the double-edged sword of technological advancements, offering solutions to... Okay, I'm going to ask it to give much more casual solutions. Okay, I'm going to ask it to give much more casual solutions. Okay, I'm going to ask it to give much more casual solutions. Pause it for now so I don't have to go forever. So, you know how we're all about quick videos and thinking about switching to electric cars? It's kind of wild because both of... Because both are... It's kind of wild because both are really shaking things up, from how we chill with our phones to how we get around town. It's more than just a trend. It's like we're all starting to think a bit more about what our choices mean for the planet, whether it's picking a ride that doesn't guzzle gas or spending less time falling down the YouTube rabbit hole. It feels like there's this vibe shift happening where... It feels like there's this vibe shift happening where we're all learning to hit pause and think, hey, is there a better way to do this? And then there's this whole tech side of things. Both these topics and trends are super techie at their core, right? But it's not all smooth sailing with every cool new app or battery tech. There's a bunch of tricky stuff that we have to figure out. Like, how do we enjoy all this awesome tech without messing up the planet or getting all weird about privacy? This sounds horrible, right? Yeah, okay. Too hard to sound cool. Honestly, bro, I don't even know. I think we should just cut it up. And if we have 20 minutes each, whatever. We have 20 minutes each? I'd say even if we have a 30-minute podcast, that's fine. It's not a big, massive deal. As long as it's quality. It's not quality. But there's no way it can be quality, man. Like, we're coming in here with things we both want to... It doesn't really make sense to talk about this in a podcast format, in my opinion. What? Like, our research papers. Because we're just trying to say what our research paper was about. It's not really a conversation. You know what I mean? Yeah, so Ben, one thing that I noticed was... I'm not sure if you noticed this as well, but with... Yeah, so Ben, I'm not sure if you noticed this as well, but when it came to actually writing my paper, I found that a lot of the deep research that I was actually looking for, the core of my issue, it's very far down many rabbit holes. It's, like, not surface-level information. Did you feel that as well about your topic? No. Because we didn't talk about research... Like, it says integration of topics, right? Just say, yeah. I kind of felt like I had to really dig deep to find real information that actually was helpful. Say that. No. Yeah, I just feel like it wasn't that easy to find these papers. I had to really dig deep to find information that was relevant and specific enough to be helpful. Yeah, I feel like... Yeah, I feel like more generic information, maybe a little more easily readable articles are what get promoted to the top, and the crux, the real research gets left for the really bottom, for people doing research papers. Yeah, but that's the whole problem, you know? There's a big sort of interplay between, you know, how accessible it is and how well-developed the research actually is. Because a lot of the times, people don't want to casually read a research paper. They just want easy, quick messages delivered to them. And that's why real research ends up being not talked about enough. So, the role of policy in research is really to... We see this in both of our topics, pretty much. So, diving into the world of snappy social media content, and the rush towards EVs, there's a crucial piece of the puzzle we can't overlook, which is policy and regulation. It's pretty clear that as we navigate the exciting yet intricate terrains... Wrapping it up, the crossover between short-form media and the shift towards electric vehicles really shines a light on the complex issues at our... Wrapping it up, the crossover between short-form media and the shift towards electric vehicles really shines a light on the complex issues of our times. It really does underscore the importance of joining forces across disciplines to really untangle and figure out the intertwined challenges of technology, environment, and society. So, I guess by understanding how these areas intersect, we're better equipped to navigate our digital and ecological impacts, setting the stage for practices that are not only innovative, but also sustainable and mindful of the future. Yeah. That was a very chatty VC. It was. Oh, okay. Say that again. What do you... Let me see. Let's see it. That's like a concluding statement, right? I don't like it. We're not going to use that. No, I want to use it. I want to see if I can make it more conversational. Yeah. It was kind of good, but just a bit too... So, let's look at the role of policy and regulation between both of our topics. So, when we start looking into things like our endless scrolling on TikTok and the big push for electric cars, there's a huge thing that we can't just ignore. And these are our policies and all those regulations. It's super obvious that we are trying to figure out how to deal with all the new stuff popping up. We really need some smart policies and some forward thinking from the folks in charge. It's not just about throwing rules at us. It's more about guiding us along so that while we're all hyped about these new trends, we're also keeping our eyes open for the bigger picture, making sure we're not messing up ethically or trashing the planet or even forgetting about how all this affects people's lives. So, wrapping this up, the whole thing where we're all about quick videos and moving towards electric cars really puts the spotlight on the tricky spots... What the hell? So, wrapping this up, we can see that in order to unravel the matrix and stop just believing what you see, we need to employ a crucial thing called critical thinking. And we need to do our own research on these topics so we know who's behind our electric vehicles and what our consumption habits are actually doing to our health. I think we're good. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Genuinely, thank you for listening. Yeah, I feel bad for anyone who listened to this. Can you imagine if we sent them an hour and 15 minute video? No, we can't. Can you imagine if it doesn't save? We could, they hear us go... How do you make it sound like a water drop? It does not sound like a water drop. What is it supposed to sound like? What are you trying to do? What? Sun is down, freezing cold. That's how we already know. What is he talking about? We do it for a living though. That's just how we know. We don't know nothing else. I tried to show them. Hide me out like a light, eh? Like a light, eh? Like a light, eh? Slept through the night, eh? Not for the night, eh? 767 when it's just like other... Not for the night. They're right. I don't know, they're right. Sam. Sam. I go hold, calling, like a motherfucking moon. Okay, let's end it. Thank you guys for listening. We're probably the last loop to record, right?