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Living Echoes Podcast - Episode 02 - The Blood of Christ on My Hands - an Interview with Bishop Gabr
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In this episode of the Living Echoes podcast, Bishop Gabriel Tetherow shares his testimony and the story of his journey in the Catholic Church. He discusses the changes he witnessed growing up and his desire to defend the faith. He talks about his decision to pursue priesthood and his experiences in different religious communities. He reflects on the compromises he made in the Novus Ordo and the importance of living an authentic Catholic life. He also discusses the changes in leadership within the Church and his observations of heretical practices. This meeting is being recorded. All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Living Echoes podcast, Episode 2. We are joined again by our illustrious guest, Bishop Gabriel Tetherow. Today, it's a very special episode that we're doing, and it's titled, The Blood of Christ on My Hands, an Interview with Bishop Tetherow. So he has testimony and a story to share, and we wanted to give him a platform to do that. So without further ado, take it away, Your Excellency. Well, thank you for this opportunity, because it's been 20 years since these events took place. But, of course, the Internet keeps them ever present. And I wanted to be able to speak on behalf of the faith. I'm here to defend the faith, not myself or any actions. In reality, our defense comes from God and him alone, the Holy Ghost, the Pericles. And that is why Christ came. He came to give us a defense against our fallen nature. There's too much of an emphasis all the time on sins of weakness or sins of the flesh, and they are sins. But the sins against the faith are far worse, because a man who falls out of weakness has the ability to come back to the church and to have that restoration that Christ won for us applied to him. And so that's why having this video entitled The Blood of Christ on my hands is the first part of my story, my life. I grew up a Catholic. I grew up in the early 60s. I am 60 years old. I received my first Holy Communion in 1970 when the Norse order was promulgated. But my family remained traditional. And so there was always this kind of conflict growing up with what the priests were teaching, what the nuns were doing, all the changes. You know, literally week after week, we were being introduced to new changes. I was too young to remember all of that, but it affected my family. And so I remember very clearly being enamored by the priests and the religious. And my parents said, even if we tell you something, but the priest tells you something different, you do what he tells you to. You know, he represents God. And so that was very strong in my person and my character. As, you know, I grew and I went to high school. In high school, I had a girlfriend, actually two of them that were long term for high school over a year. I had, you know. It's hard to imagine. I know. I know. Commitment. I had, you know, I was involved in many, many activities. I was considered a popular kid. So I saw my life ahead of me. I wanted to study medicine. I was accepted at UC Berkeley in Davis Medical School. But as I was studying for an exam in anatomy, we had to trace a drop of blood through a pregnant woman. It was 270 steps, if I remember right. Naming all of the different processes that go through. I was studying for that and it was late at night and I kind of fell asleep, but I didn't really fall asleep. And I distinctly heard a woman's voice say to me, you are being called to be a priest. I didn't remember that right at first. When I woke up in the morning, it was the first thing I thought of. I took the test. I came out on top of my class with that test. But I couldn't get that off my mind. And I made a fatal mistake. I told my mother's Italian. I told my Italian mother. You might as well just pack it in. So the next step was to go speak to our parish priest, whose nickname was Whiskey Dan. And so I went and spoke to him and he said to me, you don't want to get involved in this mess. Probably the best advice I've ever been given from a Novus Ordo priest. He said, you don't want to get involved with this. But I pursued it and I entered the seminary, studying for the Diocese of Portland. I won't go into details, but the experience within the first two weeks. So why did I stay? I stayed because I was a child. I wasn't taught how to reason yet. There was not the light of faith shining upon my reason. It was, please men, this is the church. These are the men that my parents always told me, you know, that you obey. It was all of these things. I never did. I never followed any of this. In fact, when I was asked to leave, and I wasn't asked to leave per se, they didn't want to kick me out. They wanted me to choose to leave because they liked me. They wanted me to come back. But I needed to go into the world. I was too rigid. I was too, you know, my classmates wanted to get to know me better. But I, you know, all of the things that everybody has already heard. I ended up leaving the seminary on my own. And then I pursued, but I couldn't get away from wanting to be a priest, wanting to be a part of the church. I entered a Benedictine monastery. I was there for four years. I left. I entered Fr. Grishel's community, the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. I was there for two and a half years. I left. I was pointed out to me by a friend. That just shows instability, but that's not true. I was looking for what was authentic, and I wasn't finding the authentic, authentic Catholic priesthood. I've always been a person, I won't settle for something that's less than. And it was this drive looking for what was authentic that brought me ultimately to approach Bishop Timlin and the Diocese of Scranton with another brother from Fr. Grishel's community, asking for permission to live an authentic Franciscan life under, not, we weren't under, but with the Fraternity of St. Peter, which was newly found, brought into the Diocese of Scranton. Bishop Timlin gave us that permission. He gave us a letter saying that we had the approval to experiment with this, and we did. And we grew. Over four years, we had eight members. We had 40 young men who had applied to join us. All of this was moving along in that direction, but I still had the blood of Christ on my hands. I still was compromising the faith. I was still putting Christ to death daily when I was rejecting and denying his divine revelation, and I wasn't able to see yet, with the light of reason, that this was not the church. This is not the mystical body of Christ, nor can it reasonably be the mystical body of Christ. And, you know, as this. Yes. I had a question. If you could just give us some examples, because you said that you have you had the blood of Christ on your hands by what you were doing in the Novus Ordo. So what's an example of some of the things that aspects of the faith that were denied by you and the others at that time? So, well, first of all, I mean, we always I was I was ordained in the old right through the diocese or from the diocese of Scranton, but through Rome in a crazy day, which is called the material letters. So I had always said the tradition, right? I was ordained in it through with the fraternity. I always said the traditional right. But I persecuted those who said that John Paul II was not. I threw out the arguments that were given to me as a child. I didn't reason I was given to me and I inherited it back. You know, I, I believe that there was salvation outside the church. I believe that if you were a good Protestant or a good person that, you know, you would be part of the church. I believed all of those things. So what were those kinds of things? We lived a very strict Franciscan life. We didn't have Internet. We didn't have TV. We didn't have any of those things. We had a four by six cell that we had. We lived in each one of us. We tried to live an authentic Catholic life, which was good, but it wasn't an authentic Catholic life in relationship to the sacraments. It was a compromise and that compromises the blood of Christ on your hands whenever you compromise in order to have something in the world. And you put him to death whenever you deny what he teaches or what he taught or anything that the church teaches in defense of what he taught. You do have his blood on your hands and you get used to it after a while. You don't even notice it anymore. But then something happens, right? God continues to move us in order to wash our hands. And I think that that washing or that baptism, which is what baptism means, that is a continual conversion away from the world and towards Christ. So the attempt here to go closer to Christ was to come to the fraternity, to come to, you know, but under the false reason, the false judgment that in order to be with Christ, I had to have the approbation of the bishop of the diocese. In other words, in order to be Catholic, I had to have him say I was. And that's all I needed, because you can see this all over. All you have to look at the Anglicans and have to change anything about what they believe anything about. They just had to acknowledge that Benedict was the supreme pontiff. That's it. And they still believe in consubstantiation, which was condemned by the Council of Trent and all of this. I started seeing all of this. I mean, but I still just for people who aren't aware of what exactly are you referring to with Anglicanism? Like they were absorbed. Back into the Catholic Church, the Novus Ordo, and they didn't have to abjure any of their heresy. No. Right. None of it. All they had to do was admit to Ratzinger and you're in good standing. Yeah, that's all you have to do. And that's all you have to do to these people. Submit and you're in good standing. So I found it even on a local level. Right. To his credit, Bishop Timlin was a kind and fair man, but he was liberal. Right. I mean, he supported the Charismatics and he supported, you know, he supported anyone. I mean, he just but he was a good and kind man. But then he resigned. He retired. And Martino came in. And Martino was heavily invested into the Neocatechumenate way, which was founded by two laymen, a woman and a man. And it's heretical at its very roots and its very foundation. But he was a great supporter of it. And so the minute. So this is what really changed my view of the whole thing. When he when Bishop Timlin left was taken and Bishop Martino came in night and day, Bishop Timlin always required his priests to wear clerics in public. That's one time a priest was in the bank and he didn't have his clerics on. And Bishop Timlin went up to him and told him he was to go back to the rectory and be properly dressed before he comes back out. So that was Bishop Timlin. And people back then called Scranton Jurassic Park. You know, it was the dinosaur area place. So when Martino came in, when they picked him up at the airport, he had on Bermuda shorts and a shirt and flip flops. So here's the difference. Everyone in the diocese who plays the game was looking to see. What they now had to believe, because Martino was coming in. And this is a problem, right? Whenever the bishop comes in, what does he believe? We need to know what he believes. We need to hold to what he has in order to be able to get any kind of position in the diocese and all this. So I saw this and I was like, wait a minute, stop. This is about Christ, not about the bishop. But it was all about him. So in a short, very short order, a number of the priests had approached him about myself. I had been ordained already in the old right for the old right. And when do you remember when that was? When were you ordained in the old right? 2002. Say again? 2002. Yeah. June 29th, 2002. With the Dimasorial letters from Rome, which means that I was ordained through Rome, to say that under Ecclesiades, that saved me, actually. I'll tell you about that in a minute. So what happened was when Martino came in, these priests started coming to him and complaining about these traditional groups because we would not come as priests and fill in for them because I wouldn't say that. Right. And so I got called in shortly after he was installed. And I was met by Bishop Doherty, who was the vicar bishop. I can't remember what they call him. And, you know, he sat down and talked with me and he said to me, will you be willing to take an assignment in the diocese? And I said, are you telling me that? He said, no, I'm asking you, would you be willing to? And I said, well, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. That ended my interview with him. And then I was sent into Martino, who dissolved our community, took everything away from us. And now I'm a priest. Oh, wow. And I have nowhere. Well, Canada law requires that they put me somewhere. They can't just leave a priest out. You know, you have to. Right. There's a housing. I never received a dime from the diocese, by the way, paid for my own education. And they never gave me a stipend as a priest. They never gave me insurance as a priest. None of that. All contrary to Canada law. But nonetheless, they. So I'm I'm hearing this from him, but kind of out without any warning. And then I'm told I have to take the Franciscan habit off. Our community is dissolved. And then he brings out financial papers, because in order for us to be accepted by the diocese or anything, we had to put our properties under their name and we had to have bank accounts under their name. And so he presents me with. Our bank accounts are all been taken over already. This was already done. Oh, wow. All the legal things were done. We were. Yeah, he was. He was just informing you of what he had already done. Yes, he was just informing me what he had already done. Right. And trying to act like he's this kind, gentle, you know, man who cares about. Right. Right. So I walk away. And I go back to what was our friary, but now it belongs to the diocese. And I have to tell the other brothers. We've been dissolved. You know, it's funny because we kind of we kind of have to joke about things, you know, so we were going to make a meme. They didn't call memes back then. But the brother sitting at a bar saying, I'm so suppressed, you know, because that's what, you know, that's what they did. You know, they did. So I'm like. So then I get called back in. To the chancery. I'm a priest of the diocese of Scranton. And then I ask again, will you be willing to take an assignment in the diocese? Then over sort of. And I said, are you giving that to me? And they said no. And I said, well, then I'll give you the same answer. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. What I didn't know. But it was only by the Holy Ghost, because I'm not really that smart when it comes to law. What I what I didn't know was not force me because I was ordained through Rome for the old right. If I would have said yes to them, it would have been all over. I would have forfeited that. I would have entered in. But I didn't. But that started a whole avalanche of things, because if you cannot their policy, if you cannot control them, you have to destroy them. And so I was. May I interject for a moment? What I'm hearing is that the Novus Ordo operates an awful lot like Freemasonry. Absolutely. One hundred percent. It's a it's a political social club. Yes. Where it's all about man. It's all about what does the man say? And do you fit in with the men who are above you? And again, you said at the time, like, you believe that the good Protestants could be saved. And that's that's totally in line with the indifferentism that we see promoted by Freemasonry. You know, and that's why I say I had the blood of Christ on my hands. That's why. Because anyone who's associated with them to this day has the blood of Christ on their hands. You know, they may not know it. But again, right. Use reason. Enlightened by faith. But I did not have the faith. I did not have the grace of the faith in order to guide me. And yet the Holy Ghost still guides us. He's still because of our baptism. There's still that spark there. And so in these moments when it's necessary, if the person is willing to do God's will, he's there helping us. But we have to make those decisions and we have to make the sacrifice. I knew when I got there and they asked me this, I didn't know what it would happen. I didn't know how. But I knew that this is going to mean trouble. Right. Right. So they told me that I needed to be incorporated into a different diocese. So they put me at St. Anne's in Tobyhanna. The pastor there, I won't mention his name. Is that in Pennsylvania? Yes. Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania. Yes. St. Anne's in Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania. They put me there. The pastor was a diocesan official, head of missions. And he was never there. And he was liberal beyond liberal. And that's why they put me there. Again, this is why I say reason is so important. I should have refused. I should have at that time seen that this was not the church. I should have seen they were shooting me up. I should have seen all of that. But, again, I was really a child. I mean, I'm very naive. I thought this was the church. I thought these men were good men. I thought they were protected. I really did. Even after all of these things, I really thought this. Or at the bare minimum that they're acting on behalf of God. Sure. You may not always like what they're doing, but you're seeing them as they hold the authority of Christ. Exactly. Yes. And I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Well, I'm there. I'm not allowed to say mass, the traditional mass. They didn't push that because they couldn't. So when I was there, I said a private traditional Latin mass at the side altar, which is a beautiful side altar, to the Sacred Heart. But I was not allowed to have anyone in attendance. And I was given a time that I needed to reach out to other dioceses and other places to see if I could be incorporated into their dioceses with the traditional mass. There were a number of places. I went up to New Hampshire, where they were looking for a priest. I went to Camden, New Jersey, Father Paisley, where the Diamond Brothers came from originally. They were looking for a priest. They had a traditional mass. All of these. And every time I went and I met with the bishops there, it was positive. It was very good. And then I get a letter saying no, because the Diocese of Scranton was blackballing me. This is what they do. They show you we have your life and everything in our hands. So you're going to eventually do what we tell you to do. Otherwise, we will take the priesthood from you. We will take your finances from you. We'll take all that. I'm blessed to have come from a family who's fairly well off, so I never had to compromise for the finances. I never had to say to them or to myself, I know I'm in debt now. I need to have this debt paid off. I need to make this. And I have other priest friends who have done that for that reason. And so as it was, I'm there. I'm there for quite a while. The pastor's never there. He was always gone. He belonged to a motorcycle gang. He went to Disney all the time. He was in missions. This is what he was. So the staff and I became very good friends. I would go down and have lunch with them. I started talking to them about the faith. They were asking me lots of questions. They were saying, yeah, that's what we used to be taught. And when they needed a visit to the hospital, I would go. I did everything in the old right, but I would go. But again, I'm sorry, just to interject again, because I know the Internet people are very meticulous. Okay. And when we say that these men were like I had, the priesthood, we are qualifying that because that's what they call it. But we know that in reality, the Novus Ordo priesthood is not a true priesthood. That is correct. And the sacraments that they're giving, whether it's Eucharist or confession, because they're not true priests, they don't have any ability to even do that. So the whole thing is a facade. Yes. And that is correct. And that's a very good point. It is the priesthood of the Masons. The Masons have a priesthood. Right. And so it is working. I just know certain Internet people will hear you calling them priests and say, look, he is calling them real priests. I'm covering all our bases just to be safe. I appreciate that. Yes. So, you know, the point being there at that time, I wasn't a priest. I wasn't a Catholic priest. There are Jewish priests. So in the sense of being a modernist Novus Ordo priest, then that would be true. But that's what I was. But I didn't know it. I mean, obviously, I didn't know it. So when I discovered that I was being blackballed, when no matter what I did, that, you know, this was I was trapped, I really didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to go. I still was under this, you know, spell that this is the church and I have to be with the church. I mean, I will never leave the church. I would never. That's how they get everybody. Exactly. And that's why it's so important to make this point. This is not the Catholic Church. This is not the priesthood of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ. This is the synagogue of Satan and the cabal around it. And because of that, there isn't the grace there in making judgments according to those particular offices. Right, because you're living your whole adult life without the sacraments. Exactly. Maybe people had valid baptisms maybe as a baby, but then after that they're not being confirmed properly. They're not being absolved if they go to confession at all, because half of the Novus Ordo people don't even go to confession. And they're not receiving Christ in the Eucharist. And so they're living in the world in a religion that is already worldly because it's Masonic. And then they're not getting sacramental sanctifying grace. And so it's not a surprise that so many of these scandals have come out of the Novus Ordo. Absolutely. It's really essential. Yeah, no, it is. It's like if you look up the data on how likely you are to be, you know, attacked or molested or abused by the Protestants or even the public schools, they're astronomically high compared even to the Novus Ordo they're worse because they're so pervasively secular. So that's the Novus Ordo is a worldly religion. And so their cases are comparable to Protestantism. Like Ravi Zacharias is a famous one. He was super famous in Protestantism. And then right after he's dead, he is running his whole life. He was running this massage network of deviancy. And no one can figure out how he's doing that. It's like, well, because he's a Protestant. He's not getting sanctifying grace. Right. Absolutely. And in the ranking, too, per capita, priests rank, or Novus Ordo priests, rank 11th, 11th, you know. So, you know, but, again, the media changes all of that because they're part of it. It's the cabal, right? It's all part of it. Because they're trying to slander the name of Catholicism. Yes. And what they're trying to do is topple organizations with male authority, like they did with the Boy Scouts and Mormons. You know, what do we all have in common? It only had men in authority, and that's what they went after. Again, if you use reason, and if it's enlightened by faith, once you have that faith, once it's all been repaired and restored, it's amazing how clear it all is. But you walk around in this fog when you need some cover. So one night the secretary called me, and she said the pastor was supposed to be here because they only have baptisms twice a year. Because baptism is not necessary. So, you know, if you're, you know, born January to June, then you come in this group, and if it's June to January, you know. Oh, man. I didn't know about that. Can I interject one more thing, too? I'm sorry. Sure. There is a contingency of even people who claim to be set of a contest, who still openly teach when you press them that even infants don't need water baptism, that they can be saved in other ways. And if you really press them, they say, well, we don't really know how God does it because we can't limit God's mercy. So he might save them in any number of ways and in any quantity. We just have no idea. And I'm like, so Pelagianism, but making Pelagius, like, embarrassed to even call it Pelagianism. Yes, exactly. It's unbelievable. But these people even claim, some of them, to be traditional set of a contest, not even the Novus Ordo. And so this idea that, oh, I'm sorry, this idea that baptism is not necessary today has extended even to the babies. Like, they don't think anybody under any circumstances needs it because God will just save you no matter what. Yes. And, again, our Lord said, unless you're baptized with water and the Holy Ghost, you can't enter the kingdom of heaven. And if that's not true, he's not God, and if he's not God, we're not saved. Right. I mean, there's reason again. Reason enlightened by faith. Yep. You can just. Anyone shout, yep. And, you know, there is no other. I'm the way, the truth, and life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So, you know, I think. So as this, what was happening is she called me and she said, the pastor's not here. These couples have shown up, and I can't stay. Could you come down? All you need to do is put this tape in that comes from the diocese. It was way back then, so, you know, it was DVD. Right. VHS tape. Super 8. No, I wasn't that long. Okay. But so I come down. I don't know these couples. There's two couples and a single woman. I put the tape in. I haven't seen this tape. And I stand there and watch it. It was horrific. The door opens to the rectory. The camera comes in. The priest is sitting, and I'm not lying, with a purple, I mean a pink cardigan on, with his legs crossed, and he says, come into our house. Oh, my gosh. You're coming into the house, right? Then they go through the ceremony, and he invites the children up to lay their hands because children have a special place with God. So I'm watching. I'm sitting behind them. They're in front of me, and I'm standing behind them watching this. And I said to myself, I have a choice. I can just do what I'm asked to do and walk away, or no, I can't. The people that know me know I can't do that. This is what changed everything for me. This is how God works. This is divine prophecy. So I went in front of them, and I said, don't believe anything you just heard. Your children are bastardous sons of Satan right now, and the only way that they're going to be adopted sons of God is to be baptized with water and the Holy Ghost. And I said, I know that you are confused about all of these things, but I said, I'm willing to stay here and talk with you. We talked for an hour and a half. They were expecting to be there for 20 minutes. This is two young couples and a young woman. They had lots of questions. We talked. I'm in Catholic. I always have worn my Catholic gloves. I've never not done that. So, you know, it's not as if I'm coming down in my sweatpants, but it's not like the priest in the North Resort. No, I'm here representing the church. Well, I didn't know, but the single young woman, her father is best friends with the pastor, and her father is the one who does a lot of work at the parish with technology. So I'm speaking to them. They're in front of me. He's at the doorway. His arms are crossed. He pulls his phone out of his pocket and is looking at me and dialing, and I know he's calling the pastor, right? Who's the man that's looking at you? I missed that. Oh. Right. Okay. Right. Right. What happened last night? And she put her hand over his mouth, and she goes, you know, she knew what the politics that was going on and on. I didn't get involved in a lot of stuff. I'm still really naive. I mean, you know, honestly. I've been clueless about the politics in every organization I've ever been a part of. I'm always the last one to know, and I don't know why, but I don't know if they could just tell that I would not want to be a part of it, but I'm the same. Yeah. I'm there to defend the faith. I wasn't there for any other reason. So, anyway, that started a downhill thing for me there. But in the midst of it, Father Wickens, who was at South Orange in New Jersey, had died, and he had left me as one of the names of a priest that would come to take over. Now, he was indulged with the diocese, right? So I went because I was free. So it looked like I had, oh, and the diocese said go. So I go. And when I'm there, this man whose daughter was being singled with, who was best friends, finds on the computer the pornography. I'm not even there. Back at St. Ann's. Yeah, back at St. Ann's. I'm in South Orange. Right. So he goes to Clawton. Clawton immediately calls the police. And then, no, immediately calls the diocese, and the diocese calls the police. All of this happens. I'm, you know, sitting at – not sitting, I'm working at South Orange, thinking that I'm going to be incarnated here and all of these kind of things. Well, then a friend of mine, because this went out like wildfire, you know, the diocese had already had a statement made up to be put out, even before it came out in the paper or anything, it went out. They had this all laid out. This is how they get rid of you, right? So I find out about it, and the detectives came to see me. And to my discredit, again, I don't have the light of faith here, and I've never been through anything like this, I didn't tell them the whole truth. I had seen pornography on that computer. And the only reason why is because we were required with a thing called Veritas. It was a program that diocese had adopted, and you had to go once a month onto it, and every priest did, and answer questions and log in. I didn't have an e-mail address. So the e-mail address was set up for me so that I could do this Veritas. I was a monk for four years in the monastery. I was a Franciscan for two and a half years. And Fr. Grishel's community, we didn't have computers. I didn't know anything about Internet, computer, nothing. Right. And what's the year at this point? 2002. 2003. Okay. And 2004. So the Internet was a very different thing back then, too. Yes, it was. People who read today and make judgments about things need to go back and research what the Internet was then. There weren't any kinds of securities or any of that kind of stuff. They set up this e-mail account or this account so that I could go in, and I could then do this Veritas. The first time I did it, I remember nothing. The second time when I went to get off, this pornography popped up. And to be honest with you, I don't remember what it was. I saw it, and all I did was turn the computer off because I didn't write. Right. I didn't tell anybody. I didn't say anything. I just did that. I think that's a fairly normal reaction to that. Like if you're not anticipating something like that and then it's just suddenly on the screen. Yes. You're in panic mode, and you're like, turn it off. How do I get rid of this? I don't know what the heck is going on. I think people can relate to that. Yes, and back then they were pop-ups. They don't have those anymore. But if somebody had been searching on that computer, these things would pop up, right? Now what happens is if you don't know, like, a website, maybe a pornographic website, and you don't know it, it's being marketed as something else. They do this all the time. And there's religious communities, you know, Our Lady of Something Somewhere, and you click on it, and it's a porn site, right? But now you know how to get rid of it. But at the time I didn't know that. So the next month when I went on and it went off, this time I looked a little bit more. It was not child. There were no child images there. I don't remember exact ones, but they were adult images. And, you know, again, I'm being blackballed, which is no excuse. I have the blood of Christ on my hands. I have not received proper sacraments. They had an open bar there. I never drank or anything, but I found myself, you know, being a little bit more free with that. It's late at night. Not late at night. You know, like, late for me is like 8 o'clock. You know, I just got done doing this very tough thing, you know, and I saw this and I looked at that. And I should not have in the interview. I didn't have a lawyer. I should not have offered the information I offered about the sin that I committed, but I did. And, you know. So you at that point, you made a private sin, a public sin. Yes. But you know what? I don't think I would change that because a lot of people have told me they feel more comfortable coming to me because of that. Not to say that that's something that should be known. But, again, God can straighten out everything. But, nonetheless, it's embarrassing. You know, if I were to take randomly anyone's confessions and make them public, I would never do that. But if it happened, it's embarrassing. But that, again, was found by – I'll talk about that later on. So all of that, when the police came to me, they said, did you ever see – did you look for it? No. Did you ever see it? No. Well, that night I didn't sleep. The next day I didn't sleep. I stayed up. You know, it was a horrible thing. I mean, I'm realizing now kind of what's going on. This just started with this whole thing with the church, but it wasn't really as big as it is now. So I said, I need to be a man, and I need to go tell them. I've got to go be honest. I've got to go be honest. So on my own, I went to them. I asked to talk to the detectives. We went in, and I told them that I had seen it. Then they asked me, did you download it? And I didn't know what a download was. I mean, how would I know what a download is? You know, these are all terms that people by that time would know if you were in the world doing this, but I didn't know what it was. And I said, I don't know. And they said, well, you saw the images. And I said, yes. And they said, well, then you downloaded it. And I said, well, then I guess I downloaded it. Can I interject here? Yes. I think one thing we do need to point out here is that a lot of the police institutions, they are often more concerned with giving confessions out of people than in getting at the truth. Yes. And you see this today, and if anybody who's watching this wants to look up these types of things for more information, you know, just go on YouTube and look up why you should never talk to the police. And a lot of the lawyers will take you through exactly how and why anything you say to them can and will be used against you, but it will not be used in your favor. Yes. And they don't tell you anything you say can and will be used against you or in your favor. Now, the or in your favor is not there because they're only looking to be able to convict or potentially incriminate. And so I think you did the right thing in God's eyes, to be honest. Right. But then because you're going to men of the world who also don't have the light of faith, their job is not necessarily to arrive at the truth. Their job is to get a conviction. Yes. To square up the case, to nail everything down, to, you know, tie everything up and now we're done. Yes. They're not necessarily after truth and justice. And there's a lot of cases of people who think they're helping themselves by talking. Yes. They are in God's sight, if they're being honest, but legally they're not helping themselves because that's not what it was designed to do. Yes. And, again, I'd never been in that situation. I had no idea about the product. Right. None of it. Right. So then they started asking me, you know, more questions. Now, they did have images of child pornography on that computer. Right. Which, again, this is the computer that is accessible by multiple people. Yes. And the reason why, because the secretary even testified on my behalf. The pastor would never allow the rectory to be locked. It was the people's rectory. They had bingo hall next door. People would drop their kids off in the rectory. I'd come down because I was in the servant's quarters. I was kind of on that side of the rectory where they had put me. So I would come down and they would be all, like, all these kids laying all over the floor watching TV and all kinds of stuff. And they'd go in the kitchen and get snacks and while their parents are over playing bingo. Right? Right. Well, the computer is right there. I mean, the office is right there. And kids would be in there on the computer because everybody knew the code to get in. It was blue smoke. You know, and so many people testified that they knew this and that the pastor would not, people will know if they looked this up, pastor would not allow the rectory to be locked. And so there was this, there were images of child pornography on there. There was pornography. That's why I was getting pop-ups. I wasn't looking for it. So, yes, and what you said, they're going through this whole process. They want to, they've got the best possible one. Because who told them about me was the pastor. He said the only person that could be is this man. Remember, he works for the diocese. So all of this now, I get in this position. I go in and I'm honest with them. I tell them everything that I, you know, can say. And I have to say to their credit, they came to my defense. Both of them did. They did. Both of who? The detectives. Oh, okay. Well, that's good. Both of the detectives came to my defense, as well as the whole criminal system there. That's good. They did. They were just to me. They were fair. They were merciful. The diocese was not. The diocese was not just, was not fair, was not merciful. When I called them to say, you know, after this whole thing happened, I was told, get a lawyer, and they hung up. They would not speak to me. I needed to speak to them about something I'm going to tell you now. Because this didn't come into play at the time. It only was afterwards that I remembered this, because it was something that would stand out. So that happened in February of 2004. In Christmas of 2003, before Christmas, they had these diocesan-wide, you know, what do they call them, reconciliation services. So priests would all gather together in one place. The people would come there. There would be like six or seven priests, and you could all, you know, they would give a service, and then you can go do private confession. They had five parishes that were slated for this, and the priests were supposed to go when they could and be a part of this. Well, again, the pastor wasn't there. The secretary said, would you go? I said, sure. I'm going to be following the old rite, you know. I mean, I wasn't a priest, really, but at least I was using the old rite. So I go. When you say you weren't a priest, you mean, like, you weren't officially, like, given a role in that diocese? No. I mean, I was a modernist priest. Oh, right, right. I had no authority to absolve. But at the time, you're thinking that, yeah, I'm going to go do absolution. So just because I'm using the old rite, if I don't have the rite of priesthood, it doesn't, it's not effective. So I, you know, and I also, you know, I would always hear not face-to-face, even if, you know. So anyway, they give the whole little opening thing, which is horrible, and then they tell the people, the priests will be at different stations. So I'm still sitting there. They're telling where all the priests go, and I'm still sitting there. And then one of the priests said to the pastor in charge, what about Father Gabriel? And he goes, oh, oh, yeah, well, just go find some place. That was their attitude towards me. So I did. So the last parish in this four-week thing was St. Anne's, where I was. And so that time the pastor was there, and I was in the confessional in the back. And it had already gotten around to come to me for confession. I'm not being arrogant or anything, but I didn't realize that. People were speaking about their confession. They were talking about the hopefulness of it and everything. And so the word had kind of gotten around, go to this priest if you can. So I went into the confessional behind the screen. I still have the old confessional there. I was in there for a long time because everybody lined up, or most everybody did, and the other priest had left, and I was there. And I heard a confession, and I don't know who it was. It's always behind the screen. But this person had confessed to looking at stuff, setting a priest up, and all of these different details. I remember this, so that's why I was calling the diocese. I was like, what can I say? What can I do? This is like a modern-day I confess from that movie, which I had not seen. I've seen it afterwards, and I'm like, oh, my goodness. This is right out of their playbook. But again, these are Masons. Masons have a playbook. They know how to destroy the enemy and how to do this. So I actually reached out to Father Oscar, whom a lot of people know in the traditional circles. He was part of the Society of St. Isaac and a canon lawyer. I met with him, and I asked him, what can I say? And I said, can I tell you under the seal of confession? And he said yes, and I told him. And I said, what can I say? And he said nothing. So I've said nothing. But I know the situation. I know how it all came down. I know what happened. I know where the whole thing is, but I can't say anything. And people would say, yeah, he'd say that. Yeah, sure, he'd say that. Anybody, you know, hide behind the seal of confession. One thing I want those who are listening to this to realize, every time we priests go into the confessional, we put our reputation, our livelihood, and even ourself on the line. Because you can walk out and tell people that I've said the most heinous, horrible things, heresies or anything, and I can't defend it. I can't say, no, we didn't. People are going to realize this. You know, and I'll still do it. I still hear confessions. I will always hear confessions. I'll hear confessions of anybody who comes through the door. But I realize also, again, that the divine protection that needs to come with the office of priest in the traditional rite, you know, I need to have that. But at that time, I didn't have it. So what I did was when – so this is what the detectives did. I needed to get a lawyer. I got a civil lawyer. It was his last case. He was a Jew. And he did it for next to nothing. He knew what was going on. He knew about a case against the pastor of St. Anne's. He knew about a woman who was a secretary there who the diocese fired because she had found child pornography on his computer in his room. And she testified to all of that. It's a written testimony that I have. She showed up in my arraignment. She had not met me because she was not there at that time. But she came and she defended me by making all of this known and saying the diocese fired her. They kicked her out. This was all hidden. This was all put away. And this lawyer knew about this, and the police knew about it. I didn't know about it. So I'm walking in again, and they all know this stuff, and I don't know it. This is why they helped me, I think. So he had a great reputation, very, very well respected. And he said to me, would you be willing to take a lie detector test? And I said, absolutely. And so I did, and I passed it. You know, they asked me all the questions that they asked. They asked three times in different ways and stuff like that. They were satisfied with that. Then would I take an ABLE test? An ABLE test is an acronym for, and I can't remember what it is, audio something. But what you do is they hook you up with all of the things. The electrodes and stuff. All of that. And then you look at pictures of children, of adults. They're not naked, but they're in suggestive positions or situations. You have to keep your eye fixed on the camera. If your eye moves away, it shuts the whole thing down and you have to start over again. What they want you to do is rate between one and six. When a picture comes up, do you find that sexually arousing? If not, one. If highly, six. Or anywhere in between. They didn't explain to me what this was. You look at 200 pictures, you rate it. But what they're doing is they're looking to see if I'm being truthful. Because your eyes dilate, your heart rate increases, you sweat. All these kind of things. They were taking all of this and what I was saying in relationship to that, relating to those pictures, past it. I have all the documentation. I have a normal attraction to women my age, you know, at the time. The age range and everything. But there were two points against me. First of all, according to the state, if you're a man, you already have one point. So you have a point against you and every man listening has a point against you. Second of all, I'm unmarried. So every unmarried man has a point against them. And third of all, I was over 45. So already before it even begins, I've got three points against me. But I pointed out to them, so does the bishop. Because he's unmarried. Right. So, you know, again, these are the kinds of things that were part of this whole thing. So I had the lie detector test. I had the ABLE test. The diocese wanted me to sign a waiver giving them access to all my private records and everything, and I refused. They wanted me to go to the mental hospital for treatment, St. Luke's, and I refused. Two weeks after this happened, the pastor was removed and he went to that mental hospital. That should tell you something. I refused to go. I said I don't need to go. There's no reason for me to go. But he went. Right. He was there for six months. And, again, if anybody wants to investigate that, you can investigate that. Why would the pastor be removed and go there? Well, all of these things, again, I wasn't making my defense. Again, I'm not defending myself. I have the blood of Christ on my hands. There's no defense. But it was bringing me to understand a little bit more about who these men were and what they were doing. Right. When this happened, prior to this, they wanted me to sign a letter saying that I dissolved our religious community. We had three houses. We had $180,000 in the bank. The benefactors that gave it to us, they saw that there might be a problem with the diocese doing this because they're traditional. So I was put under obedience to write a letter saying to the benefactors that I dissolved the community and that we were moving forward and stuff. And I refused. And they said the chancellor of the office used God's name in vain against me. You will, G.D., do it now, you little ape. That's exactly what he said to me. I said no. I get off the phone and I'm like, am I even a dream? I mean, this is the Catholic church. This is the priests of God. This is my mother. I mean, my relationship with the church is more intimate and more deep than even with my parents. You can find out these things about your parents. You're like, you know, I mean, it's just all of this emotional thing, all of these things that were, you know, coming down. It was like, but through God's grace, I'm coming out of it because I'm trying to understand and move forward from it. The spell is being broken. Yes, it is because people are praying for me and I know they are. That's why we need to pray for our family members and friends that are caught in this, that they can see with the light of faith what it is and how to get away from it. So ultimately what happened was, to come back to that, everything went forward. They have what's called a discovery. And I didn't know this. People don't know this. You can make an accusation against somebody, anyone. So I was accused of this. Even at the point of taking this lie detector test and the ABLE test, all of those charges were dropped against me. So I was not charged with possession of child pornography. I am not a pedophile. Nobody ever said I was a pedophile. I am not a pedophile. I am not a child abuser. I would never abuse a child. I protect and defend innocents, children, women. I'm none of those things. But they had to create this character again. And that's what the justice system does and that's what the diocese does. They create this character. And I read descriptions of me. And that person needs to not only be put in jail, they need to be taken out on the back and shot. I'm realizing, wait a minute, that's me. They just put my name to this character. I mean, one person described me as hunched back, standing in a playground, breathing heavy. I'm like, okay, you forgot one thing. I always wear my cassock. So put the cassock on me now. I mean, one of the great things, and this is one of the savings about being committed to something, the saving thing, is because at my defense came that from all the staff there. And the secretary had worked for many parishes. She said I've never known a priest who has always, not only when he goes out, but even in the rectory, she says I've never seen an assassin outside his cassock. And she said I have been in his room. She said she's Hispanic and she's Snoopy. And she said he doesn't have lay clothes in his room. There's no lay clothes. She went through my door. She went in my closet. She testified. She asked me about this before, and I said yes. She admitted to snooping through your room? She admitted to snooping through my room. Oh, my gosh. There was nothing in there that was secular. And she was so used to secular priests and stuff. There was a computer in my room, but that wasn't my computer. So one of the things that's important here, and I forgot this, is that when the detectives came, they had a search warrant and they took my personal computer, which I still have, because it had nothing on it. There was only these images found on that computer in the office. Right, on the office computer, yeah. Not even the one in my room. It was clear too, just that one. And so, anyway, the – oh, I'm sorry, I kind of lost my train of thought there. Yeah, she testified that she was snooping through your stuff and you were always in your cassock. So I was always in my cassock. So that became a point that it was like one point of reason, right? If I wanted to do all these things, I certainly wouldn't wear my cassock. I mean, you really kind of stand out. People notice you. Right. You know, you're really on all the time. And I didn't need to. If I could have wore lay clothes, nobody would have thought one thing about it. But I never did. So that came to my defense. So I say to the priests out there, if you want to defend yourself against this, you need to take this seriously. So when the discovery took place, I went to what's called a forensics expert, and that was with the computer. So we sit down. It was a woman. And she's an officer of the law. And she said, tell me what you did. So we sit down and we went to this is how I found out that these were pop-ups. Because she realized that I wasn't searching or didn't have that. Right. You know, she deals with all of these. You know, she knows that, you know, she's not stupid. I am when it comes to that. I'm like, OK, this is what I did. And I said, the first time I just turned the computer off, the second time I saw the X, I hit the X in another one. And I hit the X in another one. And she said, those are pop-ups. And she told me how that is 2004. So she told me the process of that. And then she went through the other things. Download. She's the one who testified. I didn't know what a download was. I didn't know what I was being asked when I said that. This was in civil court. This was an officer in the civil court. So it was part of the discovery. So once you're accused of discovery. And in order to, you know, do this, they have these experts that you have to go to and see if you're right. She spent probably half an hour with me. The other part of it was talking to me about her son who was dying of cancer. He was five years old and had a brain cancer. She started crying. She asked me to pray for him. I mean, this is like unprecedented. And this was told to me by the probation officer, which was also a woman, once I had gone through the court system. She said to me, and I won't tell the woman's name, but she said she talked to me about your case. And she said, this is BS. And she used the full word. So all of these were going in my favor. But what didn't go in my favor was the diocese. The diocese insisted that there be something. And what it was was a misuse of a computer device. So there were originally ten accusations of child pornography, which comes with a ten misuse of a communication device. Those are two things. So there were 20 counts. They were all except one. And the one was there because they knew that I knew more information about the situation, and they knew more information than I knew, and I didn't know that. Right. But I told them I can't tell you. I cannot. I can't. And they told me, if you do not tell us, we will not drop this charge. And I said, I'm sorry. I can't reveal anything. I've talked to a canon lawyer. They said, did you talk to the diocese? I did. They won't talk to me. You know. And so. So pause there. The diocesan canon lawyer wouldn't speak to you about the case. So that's part of why you. No, not the canon lawyer. The diocese was pressing to not have the charges dropped against me. Oh, OK. Yeah, right. Because the canon lawyer was the SSPX. I forget his name. Yeah. Father Oscar. He was a canon lawyer. He wasn't my canon lawyer. I had to get a canon lawyer, obviously. And most people don't realize that a lot of diocese keep canon lawyers on staff by giving them a monthly stipend for doing nothing so that it would be a conflict of interest. So when I called around, it was, which diocese? And they would look up, oh, conflict of interest. So I couldn't get a canon lawyer. There was an organization started by a very wealthy man who wanted to support priests. He spoke with me. He did an interview. And he only will help priests that he believes are being maligned. He paid for my full. He got me a canon lawyer and paid for all of it. And I'm very grateful to him and always will be for him. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to get one. My canon lawyer was very, very good. He was excellent. And he has it all documented. They were going against canon law. It all comes back to the diocese. When it comes to the state, when it comes to the masons in the state, they all were up aboard. They were just. They were fair in a lot of ways. But when it came to the diocese, no. It was all just the opposite. So they kept pressing for this. I wouldn't give them any more information. And so I came before a judge. And, again, you wouldn't give them more information because you would have had to have broken the confessional. That's right. That's right. I could have told them what I knew from the confessional. And knowing now what they knew, I didn't know that at the time, they would have been able to follow that lead. But, you know, if Father Oskar or the diocese had told me that you can say this, this and this, I would have. And I would have broken the seal of confession. But, you know, so but I didn't. And so I was I was I was given two years probation. And for the misuse of the device. The misuse of a communication device, which can be applied to bomb threats. And there's all is a whole. Right. Gap of things that it can be applied to. That was the only one. And it is a felony, third class felony. And so the diocese, that's what they needed. They need to have a tag. They needed to have the tag felon and they needed to have the tag that I'm a pedophile. And that's how they destroy you and keep you from doing anything. Well, and we we see this all the time in history with other people and not even people who are in the Novus Ordo. Like there's. There's all kinds of examples of people who figure things out. And if they can't make you voluntarily be quiet, then they go into character assassination mode, which you pointed out in the masculinity video. It is toxic. You know, I won't use that term, but it is a it's a lack of reason. Yes. And it is the effeminacy. That's what I was looking for. The effeminacy of character assassination, because the truth cannot prevail because it's not on my side. So I need to destroy this person's character. And there is no worse thing you can call someone than a pedophile if they're actually not a pedophile. It is the worst thing you can call anybody. And, you know, there are people online who have used those terms pedophile. I mean, what's the other thing that they have? Predator, sexual predator. I mean, I should be able to have a lawsuit against people that do this. There should be an ability to be able to do this because there were never an accusation of any of that. You know, the accusation was that downloading child pornography, the charges were dropped. I have the document. It's written in Latin, signed by the judge, dropping all of those. Anybody who's falsely accused of something, if the court is satisfied and they drop that, they're dropping it. But the diocese won't drop it. The diocese wouldn't drop it because now they had what they needed and they went public with it. You know, they did everything that they possibly could. My canon lawyer sent letter after letter to Rome about the misuse of canon law and, you know, all kinds of things and pointing out all of these things that I found out. He found out about these other cases and that the pastor was under investigation. He found all of this stuff out. He presented it all. So to me, it was like, OK, two years probation. And, you know, even the probation officers, I was in and out in five minutes. They didn't, you know, I mean, they all they deal with people all the time and they knew that there was nothing here. This was the document. So now the diocese is continuing to promote this. And they have these websites run by layman. So they put their priest's name on there, you know, and all this kind of stuff. And people go and they think, oh, you know, I found your name on this or these kind of things, but without talking to you. So are talking to me or finding out the whole situation. I mean, the fact that. And I will say, I'm sorry, I will say in your defense that I have once I came into contact with you, I encountered a lot of resistance from people who looked you up on Google. And most of them were not willing to speak with you. Some of them, a couple of them did. But a lot of that was like, hey, well, did you did you talk to him about it? Well, no. Are you going to? And usually if I ask, are you going to? They don't respond because they don't want to say no, they're not willing because that looks bad. But they don't want to say they will and then not do it because that also looks bad. So they just ignore it. And I'm like, well. If you're not if you're not going to at least talk to the man. There's no justice there. There's no justice if you're not willing to talk to someone. Because, again, I'm not a character written on, you know, with black letters on white pages. I have a family I have, you know, I mean, that's what this whole Internet society has created. This this, you know, you're you're some kind of artificially deprived, derived character that you can now attack. I've always been open. I when I came the first time here, I said I insisted to talk with everyone beforehand. I will talk to anyone about all this face to face. And that's why I have not written a defense and why I have not put out anything in 20 years until now. Because now I'm talking to you face to face and I'm talking to the people that are on here face to face. You're hearing me. You're not hearing it secondhand. All of this hearsay. I mean, I've looked at a lot of the things that are it's so much of it, like 95 percent of it is hearsay or terms are being used for things. It's not being put in the right context. You know, nobody's saying that I was in a religious community and didn't know about the Internet. They all assume that I knew everything that everybody knows about this. And like you said, they're assuming the modern understanding of the Internet back in the early 2000s. I get operated the same way and everybody knew all about it. And, you know, but it wasn't the same back then. I was growing up at the time. I didn't know hardly anything about computers. Yeah. Like I was like 13, 14 at that time and we didn't grow. I didn't grow up with them. So at that point we're starting to get them. But I didn't know how they worked or not. Like if you'd asked me, you know, maybe I knew download of the term, but I'm younger. But like other terms like what's the RAM and what's the, you know, the bandwidth. I still don't know what half those terms mean today because I don't care. It's not something I look up because it's I don't it's not something that I'm interested in. So, you know, to act like you couldn't possibly have been confused or not known what that was is it's uncharitable. And it's sad that it comes a lot from people who claim to be traditional Catholic because we're supposed to be charitable. We're supposed to be, like St. Alphonsus said, always presuming charity as much as you possibly can. Even if it looks awful, you are still to try to find some way to look charitably on your neighbor. And so much of the traditional movement is not like that. No, it's not. And, you know, and there's reasons why people reject because of the Novus Ordo. But, you know, they reject a lot of things and they they're they have to check everything and all those things. But nonetheless, here I was in this situation now. So for two years, I didn't live in the church. I still said mass. I set up an altar in my home, said mass. My and this is another thing to the credit of the the system, if you will, the civil system. The one of the things that was required of me is I couldn't have alcohol. So she's reading the probation officer at once. The probation was given. I went in. She's reading down the list and she comes to the alcohol. And I stop and I said, I have to be able to have alcohol. I said, I need to be able to say mass. And she looks at me. I mean, I wasn't in clerics at this time. Obviously, I had a white white shirt and black pants when I had to do these kind of things. That's the only time that I, you know, but I'm I'm there. So I'm I'm there. And she she stops and she looks at me and I said I said, please, I beg you. I need to be able to have alcohol so that I can say mass. And she said, I will grant that to you. She said, you don't care about all these other things like that. And I said, I said, yes, it's really important to me. And she told me, she says, well, I grew up Catholic and she doesn't I can understand that. And so she wrote in there that I could have, you know, alcohol for the for that. And also that my niece and nephew who are underage could attend mass. But she shouldn't have been able to do with that. Now, that had nothing to do with the fact that it was misuse of computer device or the child pornography. That's a standard thing that whenever you are in probation, under probation. So I so I finished that two years and then I ended up going to 2006 ish. Yeah, it's 2006, 2007. And then I found out there was a chapel in York that was looking for a priest. That's the chapel. When I went down, I talked to the person who called me, told them all about what had happened. They looked it up. They saw that the charges were dropped. They saw all of this. And they I went down. I spoke to the community. I told them all about it. And everybody was fine. No problem. That person then later on recanted everything because I didn't do what they wanted me to do and didn't side with certain things. Could I maybe thought that this is, you know, I'm in my position. People think you can be used and you because they can always use this against you. But they don't know me. I don't. That's not me. So I ended up, you know, leaving there. And that's when we started St. Michael's. And that was in 2010. But who gave you just because that was other. This isn't the point of this interview. But just so people know your lineage, who consecrated you a bishop and ordained you a priest? And what what lines exactly? OK, where does the apostolic succession come from? Because I I've had questions about that, too. OK, so let me get I'll get to that one. Just one second, because this is that's fine. So during this whole time, I'm studying. I study a lot. I read a lot. And I look for the essence and I try to understand. And as I'm understanding all this, I'm realizing the mass deception of what is the church? What is the priesthood? Everything now that I'm talking about, it comes from this. And this period of study after you. Yes. Right. Up until all from the time of 2004 until now, I went to study and I didn't stop and I haven't stopped. But, you know, I got to this point of coming to understand that the ritual is what connects you to apostolic succession. And that the bishop that had ordained me in the old right with the fraternity was consecrated under the new right. And therefore he was a bishop. And if he wasn't a bishop, I wasn't a priest. There's that pesky reason again. There's there's the reason. Right. So I'm there and I'm like. I'm I'm offering mass and I'm consoling and I'm not I mean, hopefully, I mean, Ecclesia Supra, the church supplies. Man can't stand in the way of that. But I mean, I need to repair this. I need to fix it. So through my study, I've come in contact with many different persons. And one of them was Bishop Masek, Joseph Masek, who was closest to me. And I went up and I spent a day with him. And he talked with me and showed me all of the things. I wasn't quite convinced yet. I still had this. You know, the City of Iconte thing, the church, you know, this. Could we really, you know, and all these things. I understand. Can I interject? Yes. Notice the questions that you just stated. They're emotional questions. They are. Absolutely. How can this be? How can this be? Well, that's an interesting question, but it's emotional. Yes. It's not reasonable. No. And as you pointed out in our interview on masculinity, the man is not being a man if he's not being rational. Absolutely. And so there is a time for the emotional questions of how could this be? But how could this be does not establish one way or the other what the truth is. No, but it gives us a solution. Right. It gives us a solution, even on a natural level. So maybe people can understand a little bit why most Northern soil priests are so effeminate and childish. And they are just go on the Internet and look at some of these way that these diocese represent their seminaries and the priest. Yeah, it's pretty deplorable. So even at that moment of having not having yet the light of faith, the reason said, I need to do this. So I went to Bishop Masek and Bishop Masek conditionally ordained me. He gave me a letter. This is like 2007 or eight. This was 2010. 2010. In 2010, I became a Catholic priest. I had said yes many times to the priesthood, but I'd never received it until this. Right. Then then I received it and he gave me the whole lineage. He has Bishop Adamson with the Costa line, Bishop Taylor and a two line, Bishop Taylor with the old Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox lines. Those two consecrated one another to make sure that they everyone was out of possession. Bishop Taylor and Bishop Adamson co consecrated Bishop Masek. Bishop Masek now conditionally ordained me in 2010. I had to understand all of this. It was very complicated and everything for me, because I don't have a legal mind like that. But I did before. But I expected. I came back. I told that happened on December 28th, 2010. On New Year's Day, I told the congregation here. What I did and two families left. At that point, St. Michael's was Novus Ordo up to that point. No. Or that was it. It was just basically independent. Right. OK. I mean, it wasn't explicitly set of a contest slash. OK, I got you. And I'd be caught. I had been coming to say to the condom. But I have to tell you this. After I was ordained and I told everyone that I had been conditionally ordained, I. I. The next day when I was praying, I said, now I need to start teaching, say, to the continent. All these things I've been studying and everything. I think because all of a sudden now, like a faith came in reason and it all started just going bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Right. Because I didn't have a lot of reason before. That's what was missing. And as I started happening, I just it's like. So I started preaching. I know how to do this. You know, you don't just get up and start. You know, I started laying down the argument of the foundation and everything. And by Easter, I had completed that. And more families left and more families left and more families left because I wasn't I wasn't. I was against the pope. I was, you know. Right. And I said, this is the truth. You stand by it. And I did. And more people started coming and, you know, and and it's now growing and still growing. And, you know, but at this time, again, Benedict was there and a lot of people were fooled by all of that. Right. So it's phony. It's phony traditionalism. It's phony traditionalism. Yes. So I know this is long and I want to kind of bring it to an end. People maybe have more questions. And if we do another interview on this, if people have questions, if they want that, because I know there's big gaps and there's things that are not said. But the most important part about this is that I didn't have the priesthood. I didn't have the light of faith. And it's not it's not a defense for falling into sin. But all of us have. We've all fallen into sin. And the sins against the faith are far worse, far more damaging and far more destructive than sins of weakness. But we live in a Jansenistic Protestant society that wants to say, you know, it's OK if a priest gets up and or Francis or anyone gets up and spouts heresy outrightly. But if I find out that a priest, you know, in a moment of weakness gave into a temptation by himself, I'm scandalized and I cannot have anything to do with it. I mean, you know, what about the message? In this other video I'm putting out, I speak about the messenger, right? The messenger is given the scroll. It has a seal on it, the stamp of the one who has the authority. He's to take that message, go to the one he's delivering the message to, break the seal open and read exactly what it says. That's all bishops are. We are messengers, angels in the book of the Apocalypse, a messenger. We are to deliver what was given to us by Christ. That is, as it was given, not anything, not stop along the way and rewrite it. What should we do before we deliver the message? Just deliver it. You know, and a lot of people are not going to like. They're going to want you to justify their own position or their own understanding. So to kind of bring this to a conclusion, and again, if we need to have another follow up, I'll be happy to do that. So everything was going along. Everything was working fine. People are coming here and everything. And then the Pennsylvania grand jury report against the church, which I don't know if a lot of people know this, was instituted by the Vatican. Shapiro, who's now the governor. Who was then the attorney general instituted this and they everybody knows about this. They they exposed all the names of those who were I guess his name wasn't on there. Why wasn't my name on there? Because I was never actually accused of anything. But there was a woman who came here. Her daughter thought I was trying to get her mother's money. I've never preached about money. Anybody who knows me knows. I mean, like I said, I grew up. I didn't have to. That wasn't an issue. So I understand that. I never. That's not what it is. She was convinced trying to get her mother out of here that I was trying to get her mother's money. She was a she's a feminist and she's a very politically active person. When she didn't see my name on there, she went to the newspaper and said, there's a priest that was accused and he's, you know, not listed on. Right. Right. What was on the news. And so they show up at the door and they did their research and they have all of this stuff. And the first thing they asked me about. First thing that they said to me. And hopefully people aren't scandalized by this. But they said, did you masturbate this morning? Because they were letting me know that they had the. That information. Right. And and I told them I wouldn't speak to them. I said, you're fake news. I won't speak to you. I would not talk with them. They kept trying to get me to talk to them. I said I wouldn't. They said, well, it doesn't matter if you talk to us or not. But if you want to talk to us. They went into my Facebook. Facebook. I had Facebook at that time, which was stupid. They went into my Facebook account and contacted everybody on Facebook. The diocese gave them all the information that they could ever want. They they contacted all my family members. They interviewed everyone that they possibly. They try to get everybody here. They just went and they wrote that article, which a lot of people saw. And there are 13 provable things that are not true in there. There's it's I mean, it's not even set up very well, written very well. But it's sensational. I mean, they. I had three new families join here after that. Because people understand what's going on with the media and what goes on with the diocese. The diocese after that, then they started attacking the diocese. Right. So I went to the diocese then. Put out a statement that, yes, I had been accused. And yes, I was. And all this kind of stuff. I went to a lawyer and I said, here's the documentation. He took it. He sent it to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. And it had to be put in. That information had to be put in there. But you have to search like you got to be a computer expert to search to find it. Right. But it's there. That was the last thing that that's happened. You know, everyone here knows about it. Everyone knows. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's important. It's not like it's some big, dark secret that you've been keeping from all of the parishioners for decades. And I'll talk to anyone about it face to face. I'm not going to. Right. You know, you need to have the courage and put some skin in the game, too. Right. So. And I'll corroborate that, too, because we talked privately over the phone. And I talked to your wife. And you talked to my wife and her parents. So you've never shied away from being open and honest. No. Anybody who comes here, anybody that wants to. I will. I will talk to you, but I'll talk to you personally because I grew up that way. Right. So one last thing and I'll end with this. It was it was once asked me if you could do anything over again, if you could change anything, would you? And, of course, my automatic was, yes. I mean, if I could. And then I thought about it and it's like, no. Because. My God's divine province and then honestly, and this isn't to my credit, but me responding step by step by step to what is good and what is true, even without the light of faith, even on a natural level, then with the light of faith. It has brought me to understand. It has brought me to understand my faith and my priesthood in a way that I would have never understood it before. And the. I realized again that I in 2010, I started living my priesthood from the cross and not the chancery office. Prior to that, I was living it from the chancery office. And that's why there was blood on my hands. I was constantly willing to crucify Christ, to deny Christ, to throw Christ under the bus, to think that the church was just a group of men that were headed by the man in Rome. I mean, all of these things. So if it hadn't been for this happening, I would still probably. In some capacity, be there. I don't think I would have ever compromised. Right. I may have just left altogether and just said mass privately and said my office privately. But it was really through this. And this is why I am so. Hell bent. And I mean that in the correct way to make sure people understand that our faith is about redemption. That Christ offers to repair, to redeem. I dedicated my priesthood to the virtue of hope because this is what people were losing, hope. And that this repair that God gives to us, it comes through the mystical body and from the priesthood through the mystical body. This is what is worth living for as a priest. I have found what I was looking for, the authentic, the true. I found it. And I wouldn't have found it if it hadn't been for God allowing all of these things to be put in place. But I want all the faithful to find it. And this is why I'm doing this interview. If this is a scandal, a stumbling block to you finding the truth, it's only because you're basing it upon emotion. Because. One in a real sense, it doesn't matter that it comes from me. What's being said, you know, a lot of a lot of response is not about what is being said. It's like, you know, you need to get a different kind of haircut. You need to do that. You know, I mean, it's a childish thing. You know, I mean, I don't I'm not belittling anyone, but I know I don't just listen to the message, you know. So what? So what if you think everything is true that was said about me? You're not in contact with me, nor am I asking you for money. So what's my motive? What's my motive here? I mean, again, reason enlightened by faith. You know, if I were saying to you, you know, in order to get this information, you have to subscribe to my channel and pay all of this. So I get more. Yeah. Or I mean, if you're not comfortable. Being around priests or something or, you know, I mean, I'm I'm credible. I love children. I would never hurt a child. Again, I'm not a pedophile. I'm not a predator. I'm not a sexual deviant. I'm none of those things. Am I a sinner? Yes. Do I still need the redemption of God? Yes. Am I still learning and still trying every day to be a better Christian and a better priest? Yes. But I'm not defined, nor is anyone defined by their weakness or their sins. We're defined by the grace that God gives us and our response to it. And so let's leave it at that for this interview. And again, if people who hear it have more questions or not satisfied, think that there's something fishy about something, we can come back to that. And I will go into more detail about those things. I think that's very fair. I've been I've been telling people to close that. Jesus Christ told us by their fruits, you shall know them. Yes. And he it's one of our sure ways. And he said this specifically, I believe, in reference to discerning false prophets. Correct. Is that by their fruits, you shall know them. So people need to. Which is why I'm so glad we did the masculinity interview, because people, especially the men, need to stop looking at everything based on emotions. Yes. And you just start looking at it with reason. And if you're not a Catholic, if you're not a actual Catholic, you need to repent and convert because that will allow you then to use your reason properly through the light of faith. And then you won't be so governed by your emotions. Yes. And I'm still trying to do my best in that, too. And but I know where I came from. And it's miserable when you're not putting in the effort to be a Catholic. There really isn't anything worth living for at that point. And you don't have even basic rationality. You are governed by your passions. As Augustine said, you're a slave of as many vices, man of as many masters as he has vices. Absolutely. And that's the world you live in at that point. And it's misery. Yes. So I am very grateful. I'm in beyond words for you doing this. I so much admire your honesty, your openness. Nobody would do this. Nobody would do this. Like all these other, you know, theologians on the Internet, they would they would never be this upfront and honest about their failings that became public. They just hide and defend and lie because they're all modernists and they all believe in pre-Masonic, you know, Talmudic thinking. So they won't they won't do what you just did. And so people need to look at the fruit of what this is, what this shows and what are you teaching? Because if you listen to Bishop Tetherow's sermons, interviews, nobody else is standing on these these truths of Christ anymore. But again, as you pointed out, that's not as important because there is no Internet article slandering them of other types of deviancy. But it's like, no, but as Father Faber said, heresy. We have no hatred of heresy and therefore we we don't please God. Right. Exactly. Thomas Aquinas said heresy is worse than all the sins. It is. Absolutely. And we don't we've lost that in this in this time and in this culture. We think it's very flippant, very casual. And we need to get out of that and get back to true Catholicism. Absolutely. So any final remarks or I'll end it here then. No, I just wanted to thank you, too, because, again, you're a young man. And the feedback that I've gotten from people that I've sent the interview on masculinity have been impressed that a young man would spend his free time, which you don't have very much doing. And I really appreciate that, you know, and that's that adds to the whole the whole message as well. So I just wanted to let you know that and to commend you for that. And look for that. People don't know a lot of the persecutions you've been through. And he has in getting to this point and and allowing me to have this platform. So God bless you and keep you. Thank you so much. I'll look forward to our next interview. Whether it's on this topic or we can move on to the next one. No, I'm more than happy to move on to other ones because we have a lot of good Catholic topics to get to. So if you stay with us this long, thank you so much, everyone, for watching. Please share this when it's posted. You know, spread it, let everybody see and judge for themselves. Like you heard heard the testimony. Is that better than the stuff you read on the Internet? I think so. So thank you so much again, Your Excellency. And we'll talk to you again soon. OK. All right. Good night.
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