Amy - Mindful Practice Mentoring (1)

The speaker discusses their experience with independent facilitation and how it has opened their eyes to the importance of personal growth and being comfortable in conversations. They reflect on the value of just being present for someone and listening, and how it can lead to deeper understanding and connection. They share a specific example of a conversation with someone who had experienced loss and how they navigated the emotions and challenges that arose. The speaker emphasizes the importance of holding space for others and honoring their time. Okay, so I'm spotlighting you, Amy. You're in the spotlight. The place I don't like to be, but I'm feeling more and more comfortable with this as we go. And I think that... Practice makes perfect. Pardon? Practice makes perfect. Well, you know, it's a new thing for me, and I think that's where I'll start is, you know, I've been working for years and years and years. And, you know, at this last couple of years, I've changed kind of my perspective and my role and what I do and taking on this position of independent facilitation and being a part of these learning opportunities and this community of practice has opened my eyes and deepened my understanding for the work we do. But it's not always comfortable. It's not, you know, having a mentoring session is so valuable, but putting yourself in the spotlight in front of your peers and whatnot is still a bit uncomfortable for me. And I think that's because it's new, right? I think having the opportunity to learn not only about the work I do, but to be given the opportunity to reflect and learn about myself is something that is very countercultural. I will use that word in terms of the work I've done over the years. When I was working for a large agency, nobody really cared about how you felt or how things were impacting you or how it is to really do the work that you were set out to do as long as you were checking boxes and meeting those expectations for ministry accountability. I find it so refreshing, but it is that piece of getting comfortable, right, of being comfortable with yourself. And I think that's something that I've been really focusing on, especially after the last couple of courses of Mindful Practice is you have to be comfortable with who you are in order to be comfortable with other people. And I've really reflected on some of that, and I've really enjoyed some of the podcasts and learning over the last little while about how to take that time to center yourself, to learn how to manage what you say with your emotions and all of those pieces. And I've never been allowed the opportunity to really explore those things within myself in terms of the work environment, so I'm very grateful for the opportunity. And I'm still trying to process all the information, but I think that it's that personal growth piece around being comfortable in conversation. So I'm really looking forward to the next piece and how the work that we do isn't about meeting a certain expectation, right, but finding a way to make meaning of those relationships that you're with and holding that space for people to be comfortable as well, right? And I think it's been a challenging time to connect with people in terms of you can't always be with people and you don't have a good feel of the room or the environment that's happening around, so you're just really relying on what you see on that screen and what people are telling you. And I've been trying to focus on that. What are they telling me? And it's been interesting. I've been meeting with somebody on a weekly basis for the last few months, and from an outside perspective, which I've gotten a little feedback from the agency because this person was in service, is that people really don't understand the concept of just showing up and being there for someone. And they don't see the value in it. And I think that there's this perception from lack of information on what that value is just to be present with somebody, to allow them to direct the conversation, to have no expectations of what that conversation is going to bring that day. But what I have learned is when you just listen to somebody and leave that door open, you learn things about people, about what's important to them in that moment, what a story might say about some of their experiences they're having now, and just trying to be aware and present to all of the little things, right? And to take that time when you don't think you're getting it. And I think that was really an important part of my learning over the last little while, is it's okay to not understand what somebody's trying to tell you as long as you're taking the opportunity to stay with it and figure it out, right? In a really natural and I will say loving way, because that's the other piece is that the emotions that are attached to the work we do, it's very counterintuitive to the work I've done for years. And I've just found it very healing almost in the sense that you just have the opportunity to be there for somebody. And even if somebody was listening into the conversation and couldn't get much out of the conversation because they weren't really listening, they were just hearing, right? And there's a big difference about hearing what somebody's telling you and understanding and taking the time to really feel what somebody's telling you. And I had this experience recently where I had to take some really deep breaths because I was meeting with this woman and we're having this conversation and somebody that she is connected with had a significant loss in their life and this person's father had passed away. And I wasn't sure if she was aware of what was going on, but it became quite clear early on that she was aware and she was very anxious about this person's father passing away. Can I ask you a question? Yep. So this person's father didn't die, but she became aware that a person close to her father died? Correct. And you wondered if it had an impact? If so, what impact did it have on her? Well, I was kind of just feeling out whether she knew because she was questioning a lot about when somebody was going to be back, right? And so I explained, well, they're dealing with some family issues because I wasn't sure if this person was fully aware. And then a staff just walked in and said, his dad died and he needs some time off and he'll be back. And then she kept questioning about this person. And I just said, what are you thinking about? What are you worrying about right now? You keep talking about this. What piece of this, well, is that going to happen to him? And I was well aware that a staff was listening because they came back and said, he's too young. That's not going to happen to him. And I was thinking to myself, well, let's just hope. Never make promises about the when. Exactly. But the interesting part of this conversation was, is that she's had a lot of loss in her life, right? Her parents have passed away and things like that. She didn't talk much about them, but all of a sudden she was questioning, well, where's my mom? Where's my dad? And I would let her answer her own questions because I don't know all of her story. And I said, I don't know. You tell me, you know. And she would say, they've passed away. They've passed away. And then she looked directly in my eye with a smile on her face, which is very genuine. She says, well, what about my grandma? And I said, I never heard you talk about your grandma. Right. And so she started telling me a little bit of her grandma. Her grandma was dead. And then I could tell she was talking. She just kind of had this choking moment. And so I said, oh, why don't you call and ask somebody for a glass of water? And they came in and says, well, you've got her awful upset. What are you talking about? And I was like, I think she's just choking. Well, no, this is how she behaves when she's anxious or something about something and you're causing her distress. And I said, well, I didn't ask about the conversation. She was telling me. Right. And so I said, you have to understand that I'm just here to listen and to let her direct what we talk about in the moment. And this was important to her. And she turned her butt to the screen, the staff, and said, well, maybe she doesn't want to talk about her. Maybe you should think about that. And I was like, okay. And I think that they're just there's this fear of what emotions do to people. And it just took me. It took me back. And I've got to say, I was pretty proud of myself because I didn't get flustered in that moment. I just took a really deep breath and tried not to put my judgmental lens on and tried to kind of not focus on those little bits of somebody coming in and interceding in the conversation. So after she got settled, she said, so what do you want to keep talking about? Well, interesting enough, the conversation led to about another relationship with somebody in her past that she couldn't name. But it was really important to her. And she kind of was questioning why this person wasn't around anymore. But I just thought it was really an interesting moment because I was like, well, you could get so much. Like, I'm thinking to myself and reflecting afterwards about kind of what happened, which I do after all of our conversations with this woman, because I think she's telling me so much more sometimes than we're really aware of in that moment. Right. And sometimes reflecting on that conversation brings more depth and understanding to what she was trying to say. And it's just interesting to just try and process conversations you have with people and kind of why something happened a certain way or what that brought to be. But it's amazing. It just amazes me every time I meet with her, how just holding that space every week for us to get together means so much. And I can tell. I get that feeling, even though it's through a screen. And so I really try to honor that time and try to keep it sacred so I don't intervene. And a couple of times when life comes up, she would get anxious if I was late or if I had. And this one day last week, I just I got stuck in a meeting with another family that went an hour and a half longer than it was supposed to go. And so I just, you know, and I got online and I apologized. I said, I'm really sorry. My intent wasn't to keep you waiting today. And, you know, I'm so glad that, you know, you're OK with this. Her anxiety this time was almost non-existent about it. It was kind of like, oh, well, right. And so I was just just, you know, just shows the power, I think, sometimes of what it takes to build that relationship with somebody. And I've only ever met this person once in like face to face. And that was through COVID restrictions as well. But I don't think she's ever had many relationships in her life where they were just it was time carved out for for just talking. And the value in learning about somebody's story can tell you so much about what they crave, I think, for for their for their life now. And I don't know. It's just it's been a really powerful experience, kind of having these experiences and then having some different tools and perspectives to do that reflective piece. And and to think about. You know how your emotions play into those pieces, because I know a couple of months ago I probably would have been a lot more agitated over that interception. Right. Somebody trying to tell somebody else about what was important to them. And I just I literally just took that deep breath and I exhaled and I took a minute and I thought to myself, well, that person just doesn't get what my job is. And today that's OK, because it's not important in that moment. That's not the important piece of this moment. So I think kind of understand. I want to interrupt. Not the important piece in this moment. And thank you for your introduction. But I'm beginning again because this is where my allegiance is. Yeah, this is, you know, in alignment with my role and what we're doing together. And I can't presume it matters to you or expect it to matter to you. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. It was just I don't know. I was just kind of taken back. But in being taken back, because I think of some of the things I've been learning and practicing over the last few months, I was able to not focus on that. Right. And focus on what was truly important in that moment. So I could start anew. Right. And I could start again because you really did. And it really did break the conversation. But then it turned it into a different direction. Right. Which was just as mind blowing for me because, you know, it's taken months for her to be able to share parts of her story. Right. And there's a little information there. It's a privilege to know that you're developing a relationship with somebody that is trusted. Right. You know, I've heard from one of the staff there before. Well, why doesn't she tell me these things? And I try not to answer that because I really don't know. Right. But I've been asked to respond to that. And I just, you know, quietly try to say, you know, she directs the conversation. Obviously, what she talks about is important or of value to her. She wouldn't be talking about it. And I don't know why she tells me these things. But every once in a while, she'll say something. She'll say, will you tell so and so? And I'll say, well, why don't you bring them in and you tell them? Right. You know, so and it's some really simple things. But I think when you don't stop and listen to what somebody is telling you or what they're questioning about, you're never going to figure out what that piece is that is causing them to question. For example, she kept asking people to buy her things. Buy her things. And so I said, well, let's have a conversation about your finances and what that means, because it's not my job to buy you things. Right. That's not what this relationship is about. We're here to talk to each other and get to know each other and kind of figure out, you know, what's important in moving forward. And so it came out, well, she lived in a retirement home for 10 years. Then she moved into a 24-hour group home. I don't think she understood she had her own money. People just bought her things. She always had to ask permission for somebody to buy her something. And so when the staff came and we had this conversation, she goes, I don't understand. You know, you have your own money. And I said, does she see that? Does she really do you really know that? How do you make her aware that she has her own money? How do you teach her that this is if you want something or you're looking for something, especially through these crazy COVID times, you know? Can I stop you there? Because we're getting more into that story. And I want to help you pull it up. So it was a wonderful story because it gives me a sense of getting yanked in by externals and coming back to what matters. And it gave me an idea about how you have begun to authentically invite her into her own story. Because you're interested in it. So you're drawing out this story and making it safe for her because there are no, I don't hear any expectation other than being present and inviting you into this relationship to get to know you for the sake of getting to know you. If I am to help you make changes or move forward. And I think she seems to get it. That with this lady, in this relationship, I'm being invited to make sense of my losses. Make sense of my power. How do I spend money? You know, am I a player in the world? Can I purchase things I need? Or is everything given to me or whatever? But in the conversation, the way you described her starting scaffolding with you. So there's a death being talked about in the room. What does that mean for me? What would that mean for greater losses? Let me tell you. So the gateway into more and more meaning making about there have been losses in my life that I have put on the shelf. Shall I take them down, Amy? Should I take them down off the shelf, Amy? Are you with me, Amy? Some of that I felt, this sense of playing bigger and bigger and bigger. Sort of you start to see, and we'll be doing this in the next course, what I call a leading narrative. So you're in the conversation with the words that are being said. But at the same time, you're pulling up and going. Not only are there words in this story, but there's a felt sense as I'm with her. I feel her. She feels me feeling her. I feel her feeling me. So there is this connection. And as I pull up from it, there seems to be this driving urgency when death is in the room to work with the losses that I have had that have gone untended. And by you just normalizing or just becoming more and more and more expansive. You can feel yourself in a conversation becoming more expansive and going, ah, I see. I see the connection you made from his daddy, him, my mother, my father, my grandmother. It was, you know, this unraveling about what really matters to her. And can you stay present with the words? And then for the leading narrative. So this has put us on this path, a deeper path now of helping her make sense of. Probably topics that are disallowed. If there are topics that when we talk about fostering conversations that matter, it means reading the. He leaves. About what. Topics and conversations have been disallowed. No, fly zone. Dangerous. You know. We deeply internalize those. And we even. From trauma experiences that they had a child. We begin to impose them on ourselves. In my. Childhood, there was a secret zone, no fly zones. Topics that were not permitted. And then I carried them. I carried those secrets and those rules into other places. I had to consciously. Say. No more secrets. No more managing who I say to what I say to, you know, I have freedom and autonomy. To tell my story. As. There. And then to the bones as I can. So that I can feel. So when you're given that sacred trust. If you don't have the space. You just. Show gratitude that you entered the realm of the no talk zone. And then this crazy thing happens. And that is. This playing game. From the. Jailers. Will be provocative. Look, we bear the consequences of her mood. And we keep her on certain topics and how dare you. Make us have a rough afternoon because it's our experience. If she goes there, we will bear the consequences. It's as simple as that sometimes. And the way you responded was. Or can respond is I hear what you're saying. I can feel your, your concern. That this conversation, you know, you will bear the weight of that. But that's really what they were waiting. So, we need to have compassion. For all the wounding experiences they had about not knowing her biography. Not having time to enter into her biography. Not having the spaciousness you do. Or the scope that you do to be present. That's where you got the jealousy. Interventions of why you and not me. Because I'm the kindest, most compassionate caregiver there is. And yet she tells you things. That she doesn't tell me. Those are 2 standard things that you can expect from caretakers. Not caregivers, but caretakers. They take the power and they. Caretaker. And it's unfortunate they're trapped in that because you were trapped in that. You know that this narrow wedge of able and not able to go. Is really demoralizing. So, you're bearing witness to their pain. So, rather than drive yourself up. You just have to back into your heart and go, wow, I hear that pain. Because what she said as a caretaker. That sense of what does this mean about me? Is what parents say to me. And at first with great hurt. How come she tells you these things and not me? I'm devoting my life to. Can I trust that what you're saying she's saying is true? Why is it not me? People are going to ask that question. You know, this is my life's work. My supporting my daughter. You know, it's so. We have to not treat it as. It's just because I'm so, so. Invitational and it's me and I take time. You take time because you're permitted in your scope. How many times does a parent get to say? Let's just cut some time. So, where are you at with this whole thing? It just seemed more and more. Withdrawing. How often do people get this? Deep invitation to say, whatever, whatever, whatever. Not often, and I have reflected on that because, you know, in looking at. You know, that conversation and a couple others that were very similar. I did try to go back and think about, you know, how I've been there. Right and how, because of the magnitude of the role I was doing, then you didn't have the time. To hold space for people all of the time, even though you would try to. And that just doesn't go with the people you're in service to that. The teams that you were charged with, things like that, in terms of just taking the time to truly listen. To what they were telling you all the time. You know, and it is a very. Different experience. And when I run into these experiences, I try to reflect. And kind of have a deeper understanding of them and what. Somebody was trying to say, whether it was the person I was meeting with or their support staff. And when I don't think I'm really getting it, or I'm getting anxious about it, or. My emotions start to not be as in control as I would like them to be. I've tried to take that time to reflect with my colleagues. Right. To talk about it at team, to send a text going, hey, do you have two minutes to chat? You know, and just. I'm finding that it's easier for me to cope and to manage my emotions because I have the support network in place. And I think that's another big difference that is unique. An independent facilitation, at least in our little group, is that. It's OK to to talk about your vulnerabilities. It's OK to say. I got really upset because somebody said this. And to know that it's safe in that environment and that it's not going to be talked about. It's out of those walls and that you're going to get that feedback that you need, whether it's, you know, wow. Like, I can't believe you had that conversation or take a minute like you just did to think about how that other person is feeling. And just put that goes back to it being a practice. That until I took this course, I didn't I mean, I think I understood it a little bit. But I think I have such a greater appreciation and understanding for it now in terms that it's just ongoing. Right. You're never. It's not going to come to a place where you think you've got it all of the time. Right. Because life is just changing and every situation is so different. Every person you meet is so different. So just being open to all the different possibilities that come out of the work we do. It's just been really interesting to kind of reflect on it and to. I don't know, be at more ease with it. Right. Because it is daunting. Not daunting is not the right word. It's it can be it can cause internal anxiety when you're dealing with other people's feelings. And I think that's the piece about having to be comfortable with yourself. You know, maybe it's easier for me to talk about losing people in death because I was raised in that environment. So I've always been very conscious of that. My father is a funeral director. I have probably a different probably had a different perspective of death and dying as a young person, like as early as four or five than most adults do. So talking about those things are natural for me because I think they've always been a part of my world. Like dinner conversation at my house is very different than yours. And there was a time I wasn't comfortable with that as a young person. But I think as I grow older, I have greater appreciation for those experiences in my youth. Right. And so I'm conscious of that when I'm dealing with with some of those issues, that it's not as easy for people just to be open about their experiences. Right. And what fear that may and anxiety that may cause within you. So, so, yeah, I've been trying to be more mindful of my experiences through life have shaped me to who I am. Right. And you have to be so aware that everything that you do, Right. So how they interpret and how they handle certain emotions in certain conversations aren't always going to be what you think they're going to be. Right. And just being open to that. But that causes some anxiety, too, because I know there's parts of my story that I'm not comfortable with. I probably fully haven't dealt with and brought to a conclusion. And every once in a while. May I laugh? May I laugh? Permission to laugh. I'm thinking in my story, maybe I haven't, you know, brought everything to conclusion. How absurd that is. We cannot conclude because your body just keeps sending new content for each story that you have to reintegrate and make more meaning of. So it's not about trying to conclude or get results on everything. But exactly what you're saying. Conclusion, you're right, was the wrong word, because there's some things in your life and your story that will never draw the conclusion you want them to. I don't see confusion around forgiveness. That I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I don't see confusion around forgiveness. That I got it. I'm pulling up this story. Oh, it's ugly. It's blocked. It's gooey and messy. Maybe I'll just do a forgiveness ritual and, you know, I'll be able to have this pure, loving space. That's one step on the road. But, you know, like, we just continually work and curate and better understand each story, because the emotion is fused to the content, the sensory information, and it comes up in one full package. So you could, this time, get more acquainted with that every time this comes up, I smell sausages, because that trauma happened at a cottage. Or I feel shame, because this gripping emotion is mostly shame, so I flush with shame. Just continually stripping it down and deepening, like, peeling. So I'm just saying the activity of biography work, it's just that it's an activity. And so I, you know, when I invite people or hold an expectation that in doing biographical work with others that you're engaged yourself, it's not so that you can clear the way, but you can have your stories in motion. You know, we don't sculpt it out, toss it to the side, we're just constantly, here it comes again, that ugly story that's got me by the neck. That's what re-membering, the sensations get re-membered, they get pulled together in a different way, they come up, and if you circle the same story, it goes back almost the same. So the fuse is still fully engaged, the words of it, the memories of it, the sensations of it are the same. I mean, that's something that I can't spend much time on in this course, but I'm emphasizing it with a highlighter right now. Because your facility with loss, grief, and death came out of your normalizing it at supper time, it's why you didn't invite your girlfriends for dinner. They're going to probably be talking about who's in the morgue right now, like, there could be shame attached to that. Because in our family, it's second-complete, we're living and dying and living and dying each day. Yeah, there was something else you said in there when you were talking about forgiveness, and how it can still bubble up. And something that I think has helped me several years ago is reading John Vanier and having that distinction between forgiving and forgetting. You can forgive somebody for something that has happened, but you'll never forget it, right? And having that self-awareness to, it's okay to remember certain things, and you can still have that offer of forgiveness if you can process it in the right way. Process isn't the right word. If you can manage your feelings in the right way when they come back up, right? The reason these feelings are coming back up isn't because I haven't necessarily forgiven you. It's still something that has traumatized me, right? And so you're never going to forget how that made you feel. But it gave me a place at that time to kind of move forward in that relationship that I was trying to navigate. And that was a while ago, but that's right. It's those bubbling emotions sometimes that come up, and then trying to figure out why and how to manage them when they do, right? I'm still working on those pieces. Oh, I could say a lot about that, really. I mean, it gets me all jagged up, because I'm interested in this term spiritual bypassing. Have you heard that? No. So forgiveness is a good example that I have so much anguish. I'm so heavy of heart. There's been a harm done to me, and maybe I'll just try to eradicate it. Maybe I'll just forgive the person and bypass the situation altogether in hopes that the waters are smoothed. And it's a bypass, because literally anything that you would ever need to forgive, forgiveness being an activity, not a deed, an ongoing activity in my mind. Many people say, well, how did you forgive your step-grandfather? And I'm like, I haven't fully forgiven him. And this idea of forgetting, the body always remembers, so it's in your body. And so this healing moment around harm is the activity of saying, I'm releasing where it lives in my body. I don't even know what I can say about it. But you can forgive, but you'll never forget has a reality to it, because it made you who you were. And I think what I was able to do is to bless what happened to me in order to really accept and bless and do the inner child work to say, wish that hadn't happened to you, Judas. But it did. And there's strength that you've gained from it. And all is well, all is well. You know, the who I am is part of that ugly wound that I've integrated, tried to integrate. So it's just a really interesting thing, because when you're working in the practice, there are so many wounds that people have that they will never, ever forgive. You know, we don't have relationships with that family, because this and this and this is the whole shopping list of harm that has been done. And of course, that's the divorce story, too. How do you soften the edges of those stories of harm that was done? But you rose out of the ashes. So what is it that was rising? You know, how did it embolden you, strengthen you, or whatever? I'm not making sense. I'm just trying to say that when I hear about the likelihood, the likelihood of people talking to you about death, is that's a nonverbal. She was watching every single part of your energetic field when she launched it, and then she said, this woman's fierce about death. So people, and I'll be talking about this, you know, when people discover in you, your fierceness to stay listening and stay present, then they realize the content doesn't matter. When I talked to her about death, she didn't run away and hide. She didn't stop breathing. She stayed with it, stayed at it. When I was taking my Contemplative End of Life course, we had to introduce ourselves, and I said, I'm here because I want to be with other people that are fierce around death. My mentor goes, oh, great, because that's what I want too. And I'm like, great, let's do it. Let's be fierce, because I don't waver around death. It's something that, for me, is the most expansive breath you can take to tell the truth around death and be at the present mystery of it, not knowing. It really is an invitation to be on the threshold of something that you don't know. So, your fierceness is what gives permission for conversations to be had. Or you could say bravery, which I don't choose to like, but I do love mercy and courage. Your merciful embrace. I'm with you in your true humanity. I choose in every moment not to be merciless. I choose mercy for you, to see you, to stand by you, to care, join with you in your care for your own future. And to be courageous in a conversation or fierce. You're being judged all the time, assessed all the time. Did she divert me? Did she distract me? Did she hold it? Did she shut it down? Did I notice her go into a trigger? Like, people, when they're talking or watching, how's this going for you? Are you still inviting me in every moment? When we talk about our present moment stuff, just remember that woman. It knows when she's being treated mercilessly. Knows when someone's being merciful and standing by her. I don't think I've looked at it from quite that perspective, so thank you. I think that helps, you know, because I was just comfortable with it. I didn't see this fierceness. It's such a part of life, and that's how I was raised, right? I guess I'm just so comfortable with some conversations that you don't think about how that's perceived by other people, right? And how that can act as an invitation. Say that again, because that's a major breakthrough. That you're not in the conversation alone. How you're being is perceived. Say it again, because I want you to get this. That in every moment, the person you're in the conversation with is asking, sensing, Am I safe here? How safe am I here? How far can I take this? What's the invitation here? Her eyes, her intention is drawing me forward. Is this going to go well for me or bad for me? So this aversion, attraction is happening in every moment. When you open up to other people, you're breathing in the other person. You're breathing with the other person. So I want you to remember that it's not just about your intention or your inner sense of a merciful connection, or I'm fierce, you're not scaring me away. I draw closer, in fact. When we can have a conversation that's meaningful, I draw closer, in fact. That's to be fierce. Keep going, what are you going to say? I'm asking you to say it again. What's the big lesson about the other person in the conversation that you're making space for? They perceive things that sometimes you're not even aware of in the moment, right? How you don't understand how just being there and being open to and not being afraid to have a conversation about something, whether it's death or whether it's money or whatever, gives them that power and that comfort to kind of open up, right? Just because of the way you're allowing that space. It's not just about the silence, but it's about how you walk, your body, your tone, all of those things, and how that can be perceived in a way to make people realize you're not going to run away when they say something that a lot of people run away from. Right on, right on. And they didn't have that blotto feeling when they picked up on your judgment. It's in your inner dialogue, it's a, oh my effing God, you have the same story. Oh, okay, stay present, Judah, stay present. Oh my goodness. Duck, duck, duck. Duck, duck, duck. That is like a big thud at their heart level. They don't know what words you're using, but because of mirror neurons and syncopation, they know that the thread just got cut. They sense that you are no longer with them, they no longer feel you feeling them. This mirror neuron thing is a real live, five parts of our brain are either in alignment or not. So when your inner dialogue takes over in judgment, boom, you've cut the thread. And that's when people shut down, shut up, move away. So it's such a vital flow, and it's drawing you in as well, you're not just drawing her in. I'm just trying to talk about this reciprocity, because she ignored the interruptions and saw that you were able to come back in. I'm just giving you a sense that you're in a participation of flow and meaning making, and it's a loving act. Whether it's on work time or not, be grateful that you get paid to do this kind of beautiful stuff. Trust me, my appreciation grows every day, just to think that people are allowing me or accepting me to come in and to share parts of their stories. And it's really just something I don't think I've experienced this way before, where it's very gracious, for the most part. And I do feel blessed, because I think that finding something that allows you to grow, as well as help other people grow, doesn't happen in many jobs. And I have a real appreciation for the time that people give to me now, more than I ever have. And that's not just at work, right? And that's the beauty, I think, of this, that I'm really starting to see and feel and reflect on, is that these conversations and the work we do are about life, right? My own land is life, by the way. Wow, isn't it exciting? It's so more vibrant than the fake agency land that we create off to the side on the edges, that is meant to punish and limit and control. And I just have this appreciation for everybody I meet, because I'm learning something new about somebody else, but in the same time, I'm learning more about who I am as a person. Oh, yeah. And it's a new experience for me in my work life, right? I truly mean it when I say, have gratitude for people's vulnerability and willingness to embrace you into their conversations of meaning making. That's why I say it's really important to have humility and steadfastness with your presence. Yes, it is. And I just, I don't know, I've just learned so many different things that are just making, it makes sense up here, right? And I guess that for years and years, I worked from this place of being pulled in two different directions or more in terms of what my heart is telling me needs to be done. And then, you know, this part of my brain going, well, no, this is what needs to be done. And this is what, and this is just a different experience in terms of taking the time to be with somebody. It's just invaluable, right? And I'm really starting to see that and to feel the emotions that are tied with that, because life is so rushed and all the other work that you do, it was just go, go, go. You don't have time to think you don't have time. And it just pulls you in so many different directions that it impacts your whole entire life. And not necessarily in a good way. And over the last couple of years, making this change and then having these opportunities has just opened my eyes to the possibility of not only what can happen for other people, but what can happen for me. Right. And I'm, yeah, I'm still exploring that. And I think that's what excites me most about the work that I'm doing and doing more of it. Right. A few things in winding up that I want to get to, and that is the first invitation is to be joined and together and a stand for the individual. So not just being, but with the intention of growth, development and movement forward. And without holding that expectation, without an outcome, you still can hold the expectation, because that expectation of the relationship is what formulates the offer. We formulate an offer when we see, would this be the right time? Are you interested in taking time and I can help you with this about writing down some of those stories? So that you can read them over and over again or helping you get pictures related to that time at the cottage. That fond memory, you know, let me help you get those stories together or help you have a conversation with your sister about those times. So you'll remember more, whatever the offer might be. So having an action orientation, why there's a T emblazoned on our forehead. We should represent relationship and change. Relationship and change. So it's not a deepening relationship for the sake of a deepening relationship. Whatever the person in cancer is stuck on or isn't working for her, you'll be there with her and bring others around. So that she can imagine a change, begin step by little step, itty bitty to doing something in the meantime, and then having a broader horizon. So we don't, that's one thing. The other thing is a challenge. So I'm asking, may I challenge your language? When you say challenge your language, challenge. Can I point out something in some of the language you're using? I have to admit it's a pet peeve of mine. And that is, in my current impression first, in looking at where we exceed power or unconsciously signal power is when we use the word, if you ever use it, it should go ding, ding, ding now. Whenever you say allow. I allow, you know, I allow her to speak about death. I allow her time to think. I allow, it presumes something. And it's not the right relationship to power. I hear it all the time. And it's even become a spiritual, you know, I allow, I allow, I allow. Well, what does that, back that up a bit. Go back further. About who are you to allow? I invite. I make space. I create the invitation. We need to, because allowing for many people is a very oppressive word in other contexts. Even if you're saying it lovingly, which I think you did. I'm just flagging it about one of the activities about safety that is always present is do I believe her? Do I believe her in her words, in her gesture, in her faith, in everything about her? Do I believe her? And when you slip in on the allow here and allowing there, you know, it contradicts or makes unsafe for many, many people. So there are other power words that I talked about in my course, but allowing is the most prevalent one that actually puts a lid on. I think now I got a backup. You're allowing me to tell you about death. Thanks for letting me raise that. I appreciate the subconscious things that our minds do. And the only way to make those changes is to become very aware of them. And I don't think anybody has pointed that out to me, so I appreciate it. I'm not allowing you to use allow any longer. No, it's totally unconscious, but you'll never, you're always going to have a cannon go off when you say it. I am now. And that's all I'm asking for, to just really be aware of it. We mimic it. It's how we understood boundaries previously. What am I allowed to do? What am I not allowed to do? Are you done? I think so. Okay. So I'm going to put us off spotlight and turn it over to whoever's going to begin. I'm just hoping I'm just going to check on this transcription. This is much better not to have to see it, because yesterday people were reading it. Did they get that? The little grumblings in the... All right. Who's first? I can go this time. Thank you, Amy. I'm just going to put us on speaker view. I just want to put us on gallery view. Go away. Thank you. Thank you for your vulnerability and your openness. It was so loving. Your intentionality with the woman got me saying, oh, to have someone like that who really is deeply listening, even when there are other outside voices that you have to attend to all the time, was just lovely. Thank you. It was a beautiful story. And your whole, I don't want to use struggle, that's coming up, but again, it's intention about who am I, who is this for me, the whole stuff around the forgiveness stuff and what's bubbling up for me. And how can I, how am I through this experience? What am I reflecting on? It was just lovely. I mean, yeah. You could be my best facilitator. That would be fine with me. And we have a very good facilitator who is actually in the course too. And, yeah, so it's all about, for me, when I was listening to you, it was about your pauses. You're really, you're just being really, really strong about, hmm, you know, who am I? It wasn't all about what you were doing. It was about how you were being, and I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. It really kind of resonated to a lot of my wounds and what I, you know, what I've lived in my life in service land and how rare that is for people and families. And so, and again, what really struck me was your evolution. Like, you're really doing the practice that never, you know, can't get it wrong and never get it done. That's practice. And so, and it just goes on and on and on in, you know, what I would call spiral. And so, yeah, it was lovely. Thank you. So, content, Roz. I'm conscious of time. So, what do you take away? That's what I take away. Those are appreciations. Yeah, certainly around, you know, as you practice, the more ease you have every day and in the flow is when you make meaning. And so, you know, and I think about that in my own life a lot. And the whole, you know, I mean, I think that the never get it done, can't get it wrong is a concrete action for us to think in our minds. I think that's really content that I came up with. And the compassion, the time and the space, spaciousness, you know, that you, it's necessary. And in doing this work, in doing this practice, really important. And the self-awareness of being, of the whole, I think this might have been you, Judith, around, because I really resonated to the fact that forgiveness is something, and I actually had written it down before you said it, is an act. It's not, you know, and so, and it takes as long as it takes, and it is bubbling up. And so, I really resonated with that, you know, and our being in our present moment and being right there in the present moment was really helpful too. So, I think that's some of the content that I took from the talk. Tonya? Yeah. So, Amy, I want to give gratitude for your willingness to be so open and to be exploring and articulating the shift that's been happening for you through the work. And I just, you know, really feel it's a beautiful thing, and I hear your intentionality around that and, you know, your willingness to figure it out in big deep. There's, you know, one thing I want to say that I want to acknowledge your gift, and I feel like within the conversation, you may not have been seen as a gift, but I believe one of the things that came out is your comfortableness with exploring death and talking about death. Because I, through my experience, I think that's a theme. I think that's a really big theme that comes out in our work. Like, what's going to happen when I'm no longer here? And, you know, to be comfortable with that kind of conversation is going to be a gift. It is a gift. It's going to be a gift when you are, you know, when people are maybe comfortable to have that conversation. So I really wanted to acknowledge that. There were a couple things that came out as well, because you were having the conversation and were exploring, and one of those is a comment, the comment around never make promises about the when. Ooh, that kind of hit me over the head. And so, you know, I definitely want to explore that myself. But, you know, and in knowing the person that you were talking about... Can I redirect you to me about what you take away? Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. You know, the piece about being fearful or fearing having to deal with emotions is something else that I took away. And, you know, I need to think more about that. And the whole, you know, your... What I've taken away from this conversation is really those intersections in terms of our role and service land. And that, you know, that's definitely the scenario you're in. And, you know, I took... I've taken away... I need to think a little more about this. It's not a role I'm that comfortable with, to be honest. And so I need to think more about that. Yeah. And, you know, the comment around jealousy intervention was so... Wow. That was powerful. I have not thought of it in that way. Once I heard the phrase, I was like, of course it is. But, you know, sometimes you've got to... I have to be hit over the head before I get these things. I just love that and the take on caretaker versus caregiver in that context. So that made a... That is something that I'm taking away because of conversations that you were having, Amy, with Judith. And, you know, I just want to say it's a real honour to be... to have you as part of our team and it's a real honour to be present for the conversations that you were having. Today. And, yeah, just look forward to continued work on our practice together. That's it. Okay. Can we come back at 12 to give Rob as much as we can? I just need to pee. Yes.