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Talk: 20000809-Larry_Rosenberg-CIMC-discussion_on_practice-8142 Leandra Tejedor.json Start_time: 00:52:56 Display_question: I notice I have a negative reaction around the practice of dana and could use some guidance? Keyword_search: dana, reaction, retreat, resistance, Bhante Gunaratana, purification, idealism, antiwar movement, Gandhi, American, British, dharma, judgmental Question_content: Questioner: I was just thinking I could give some guidance. I'm going on retreat at the end of the month, for a dana retreat, and I'm just so taken aback by my reaction to it. I'm, like, I don’t want to give anything to anybody. Larry: Oh, the idea of dana, you mean? Questioner: Yeah. Larry: Of giving. Questioner: I want to be able to use this process as part of…like not just walk around in a snit until I go to the retreat. I want to use this. Like why is this happening? And use it mindfully. Larry: Yes, I understand. Let's start right where you began. That you have some resistance to this Dana stuff? Questioner: Yes. Larry: Okay, let's start there. The ideal is that we're all saints in training, right? We give everything, here, take my house, you don't have a house. My car, my husband wife. So, start off you're stingy. Let's face it. You can't help it. You're just stingy. You came out that way and self-centered and self-preoccupied. It's fine. It's okay. Nothing personal. I'm saying it for a point. You start where you are, and where you are, you feel that resistance. Well, I don't want to give? I work hard for my money. I don't know what. You know better than I do. In other words, don't be in a hurry to do an impersonation of being a saint, or being this generous person. Start where you are. And where you are is for whatever reason. I don't mean that it's not good, that you have resistance to dana. You're being honest. I think it takes great courage, at a place like this to get up in front of all these people and say that I hate to give. I know, it's a hot night, and I'm somewhat delirious. Questioner: I did say I was very taken aback by it. It's not me. It's not who I like. I was really excited about it, and I'm so taken aback by this reaction. But obviously, there's part of me somewhere. Larry: Yes, but you see, the training really is training and honesty and look, dana, it sounds nice to freely give to someone else. You know what the concept is, right? So, I don't have to explain it. But it's a lifetime of purification for real dana. Real dana. There's no giver, and there's no one you're giving it to. And that's not where we begin. We begin as a giver. Sort of like, I'm going to give this teacher. This is what, a weekend with Bhante Gunaratana? Questioner: Yes. Larry: Okay, good. He's a wonderful person and teacher. And let's say the idea would be, oh, he's a monk, and I'm giving him all of this. I'm paying for him because the teachers at IMS don't get anything other than the dana. You know that? The teachers get what you give them. You pay for your food and board for the weekend. That sounds very nice and ideal. And you read it in books, and you hear people talk about it, and suddenly you feel contraction about that, that you don't really feel totally good about it. You use the word a twit or whatever it was. Hey, that's a good place to practice, because it's a fact. Do you see what I mean? Break_line: In spiritual circles are… we're drowning in idealism? It's one of the biggest obstacles to real development, is idealism. I don't know. That may sound… I'm not advocating cynicism. What it is that, if the idealism is really strong, we set up a notion as to who it is we want to be, and then we try to be that. Let's say…I'll give you the example I know best, the antiwar movement, which I participated in. The name itself gives it away. We were antiwar. There was so much violence in those meetings, about what the right way to do it, how to protest, okay, to really be successful. We were all at war ourselves, with ourselves, with each other. Step number one would be, can you even be at peace with yourself? You want the world to be at peace, and you can't even be at peace with yourself, just alone in the room. You're at war with yourself. Now you come with people, all of whom are your friends, and who share your value, but war is no good, and you're even with them, you're at each other's throat. Break_line: So, you got a picture of Gandhi, over your bed. I'm being personal now. When I was growing up, I did, and I found when I was in the army that I liked a lot of that stuff. Crawling on the ground with my machine gun and getting a little bang, bang, bang, and getting a little medal for it. It was like being a kid again. And then I saw it, and I was revolted by it. But the starting point was that I liked it. And then I was revolted by what was coming out of me. I was just a normal American kid, who liked that stuff. Okay so, it's good, what you were saying is good, because it's true. If that's what's there, practice is always going to be like that. I'm not saying don't have any ideals, but what can happen is people drown in their ideals, and they never deal with what's underneath it. The ideal just takes you to the surface, the conscious level. Whereas really, we have to go much deeper to the unconscious level, where you could be officially… take what happened with Gandhi. Break_line: It's a wonderful example of it's been well documented. Gandhi did a lot of work on himself, tremendous. A lifetime of deep inner work, and he could lead an entire nation to be nonviolent, and to kick the British out. Okay, as soon as he was assassinated, there was a bloodbath, because most of the people were not at his level. They were held together by his power, his moral strength. They had not done the same degree of inner work. Do you see what I'm getting at? So, you're off to a good start. If you cannot be judgmental about discovering, oh, my goodness, I'm not too comfortable with this dana idea. And all you have to do is just gently slip in under it and be aware of it and let it be. Let it happen. Do you see what I'm getting at? Break_line: That's good practice. It isn't just always getting peace. And the quality of being able to face your demons or stuff that you don't approve of officially. What I was saying, I think I've said it more than once tonight, the ability to enlarge your capacity to receive your own experience. I think many of us, including myself, might have a hard time receiving, if I saw… I don't really want to give to… I think quickly I'd find a way around that, or over it, and suddenly a very nice impulse with wallpaper over it. But for practice to go deep, you have to look at what is. Just the way things… dharma means the way things are. And if you can, it's a good habit to get into. I gather you're pretty early in your practice, or no? Questioner: A year. Larry: Yeah, that's relatively new. But don't throw this one out. Practice with it. Questioner: No, I don’t want to. Larry: Good. No. And I meant what I said. I think it was courageous of you to bring that up here. End_time: 01:00:04
