Q3-19890301-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-anapanasati_full_awareness_of_breath_series_tape_6-33809 Leandra Tej

Talk: 19890301-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-anapanasati_full_awareness_of_breath_series_tape_6-33809 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 00:11:08 Display_question: I can't say I've experienced the effect the breath has on the body but every time I see the relationship it helps me see that effect the body has on the breath. Keyword_search: breath, body, conditioner, horse, rider, sensitive, nature, thought, emotion, calm, steady, agitation, samadhi, patient, Skinner, relationship, bhavana, shamata, stillness, heart, chitta, mental, emotional, concentration, Buddha, monks, happiness, kilesas Question_content: Questioner: I guess maybe it's a matter of perspective. I believe, I've observed the effect the body has on the breath. But I can't say that I've experienced. Maybe it's a matter of perspective or belief or whatever it is. I can't say I've experienced the effect the breath has on the body. Larry: Does that mean that you've concluded it doesn't have an effect on… Questioner: No, no, still looking. Larry: Okay, good. Questioner: But I suspect that every time I see the relationship Larry: Yeah, it’s the other way… Questioner: My perspective tells me, ah, the body has made the breath fine, the body has made the breath slow. And I'm never explaining things by saying, oh, the breath is slow, therefore the body is something so… Larry: I understand what you're saying. It's a two-way street. Let's say think of it as a horse and a rider. Let's say if the horse is agitated, it's going to be harder for the rider, right? So, let's say the horse calms down. Then the rider calms down. Oh, boy. And put it the other way around. Let's say the rider is very relaxed, highly experienced rodeo rider, I don't know, whatever, the horse will tend to be more relaxed. Whereas the rider is jumpy, then the horse is more likely to be jumpy. So, you're right, and they condition each other. Break_line: But you see, here's what's most significant. We have more control over the breath in certain ways. And we can gain, by this practice, very easy control over the breath. And here's the basic formulation. I mean, perhaps, you know, it already be particularly sensitive to notice long, fine breaths, long, fine, soft, calm breaths, easy breaths. Because as the breath starts to do that, and it does that when you observe it, that is, as you watch the breath. We're studying a law of nature. For some reason, as we become very attentive to the breathing, one of the things that happens is, of course, thought doesn't agitate the breath anymore. If we're inattentive, thought is all over the place, imagining this, worrying about that, planning this. And the breath is cramped by the power of thought, which is very powerful and emotion. Break_line: As we've become very concentrated, really anything but now we're concentrating on, let's say on the breath, we're not thinking. What tends to happen is the breath becomes the direction, is very clear. Now, when that happens, the body follows suit. Again, please be patient. There's no question that the relationship exists. But once you get a hold of it, which is another way of saying is, once your samadhis becomes stronger, because this is all these the first four are largely a samadhi practice. As we become more calm, more steady, using the breath as the medium to develop, that calmness and steadiness, we notice that oh, I get it. See, we don't fully get it, that if I attend to the breath, it changes in a way that's beneficial. Now you'll see it, it's also for the mind. But right now, let's limit it to just the contemplation of the body. Break_line: Now, as we begin to see that, and you will see it eventually, then we have a powerful tool to help, with not only the health of the body, but let's say in sitting, one thing that happens, as your concentration gets stronger, this has been experienced by many people. They may not have seen it when it happened, or have a vocabulary that puts it this way. But as they pay attention to the breath, the breath becomes longer, more fine, et cetera. And then the body eases up, becomes much more relaxed, much more comfortable. And you find you can sit for very, very long periods of time. Now, that's a natural outcome of all samadhi work. As you calm down, as the mind calms down, the body calms down. But here, once you begin to see that and you have a handle, an indirect way of regulating the body, not forcing the body, and once you recognize the association that the breath is a conditioner of a body, it tends to happen more often. The recognition makes it more explicit. It strengthens that linkage. Probably learning theory, Skinner and people like that could explain this quite easily. But it tends to be easier to have that relationship. Once you begin to spot the relationship, it becomes more accessible and you can at will calm the breath and as a result, calm the body. Now, this is just part of the work of samadhi bhavana, the development of calm and steadiness. Break_line: Remember that's a lot of what was being emphasized now, at first, the sign that samadhi is developing, or shamata, calmness is developing, is you have a few moments here, or there, of stillness. Maybe it's 3 seconds, or a second of suddenly calm. And then it becomes a little bit more. But as the practice develops, it is possible to enter into a state of calm, at will. Each one of us has to find that out. It's not miraculous, it's a matter of practice. Break_line: That means, you see, for example, if at the beginning we're concentrating in order to attain concentration. And so there's a lot of effort, and intentionality, but the time comes where you get concentration, without concentrating. And especially as the mind starts to see the incredible resource that it has, in paying attention to the breath. See, we don't realize what a valuable resource is available to us. We're running around all over the place. We don't understand that literally, right under our nose sorry, bad one. Right under our nose, is something extraordinarily valuable for us, and it's free. It's right there. Now, we're trying to improve our lives in this, that and the other way, we don't understand. We have an incredibly simple again, not easy. But part of why it's not easy is, we don't really value this. We don't understand what's available to us. Break_line: Moreover, we don't understand the importance of caring for the heart. The heart here means, the chitta. It's bigger than mind. It includes mind. We're caring for all kinds of things, but we take for granted our mental functioning, and emotional functioning. And then we try to live, granted that whereas this is going much deeper, once as the mind becomes more calm. With every degree of calm, and remember, there's quite a gradation of it with every degree of calm, there's a corresponding degree of happiness. It's not enlightenment. What we're talking about is something else, that's extremely important, and helpful. So as there's more calm, there's more happiness. Break_line: As you begin to see that, there are self-destructive tendencies that we all have, where even though we see it, we don't do it. People will report incredible things happening on retreats, and then they don't practice. Even at the time of the Buddha, there are stories of monks who got to incredible calm, and then would just stop practicing. Five, six they go through this cycle five or six times. So finally, they understood that, oh, I get it. If I can remember to put my attention on the breathing, I become very, very calm. With the calmness comes a degree of happiness that corresponds to that. And I think I'd rather be happy than miserable. I mean, really understanding that, and doing something in the service of that. It's asking a lot. It's saying that to some degree, our happiness is in our own hands. We have to take responsibility for that. Break_line: This is one medium, one way, and the more you can see the value of paying attention to the breath, and it's not just because I say so, or the book says so, is that as you experience it, obviously you're going to want to do more of it. You'll run into obstacles which say, why do the kilesas... will sweep in? Why do you want to do more of that? It just makes you peaceful, calm, and happy. Wouldn't you rather worry, and have chronic introspection, or warm up some old hurt that someone hurt you 20 years ago? Warm it up, feed it to the mind, see if the mind will go for it. It does. So, it takes a while to fully appreciate the utter simplicity of what's available, and in this case, simple is powerful, so it's worth. I understand. It's more obvious the body affects it. It's because the body is more coarse. So, you can tell. End_time: 00:20:43