Nothing to say, yet
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Talk: 19990623-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-shining_the_light_of_death_on_life_part_9-43041 Leandra Tejedor.json Start_time: 00:57:27 Display_question: I would like to share about my experiences working with Aids patients before I had a practice, and now that I have a practice working with an elderly patient. Keyword_search: Boston, Mission Hill, Michael Werner, Aids, cook, undertaker, Brighton, England, London, grief, God’s work, death, morticians, nursing assistant, spiritual practice, reflection, breath awareness Question_content: Questioner: It made me think of a couple of experiences in my own life. Seven years ago, I worked at the aids office that was here in Boston in Mission Hill. And I had never done such work before, and I will always remember Michael Werner, who was the first cook. But he died at about two in the morning, and the nurse asked me to come in, and prepare him for the undertaker. Just before she opened the door and she said are you ready for this? Because I didn't know what to be ready for. I said sure. I remembered that experience and I worked there for two years, and it was before I had developed a practice. Break_line: But you speaking, has brought it back a lot of the memories of those times that I watched and cared for, and that was the dying. And yeah, my head is full of that now. But more recently, I been working with a 95-year-old man in Brighton, going in and doing personal hygiene with him, shaving him, and basically spending some time with him. But now I have a practice and I returned from England recently. Larry: Returned from where? Questioner: Returned from London recently. And it's been a difficult transition for me, and my mind's been occupied, and elsewhere sometimes. But I was glad to say that there are times I'm working with this man, 95-year-old man, who lost his wife a year ago, and is still deeply in grief and, infirmed and getting worse all the time. And yeah, just in working with him I'm more and more aware of, basically what you're speaking of. This is it, and this is where I am headed. And we even joke that you can joke with him that I might go before him. Larry: That's true. But let me ask you, it's not so much a question. Let's say the early times when you didn't have a practice yet. Was that valuable for you in any way? Questioner: Absolutely. Larry: In what ways can you… Questioner: It’s hard to describe, but it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. Larry: You'll have to do better than amazing. Well, I'm sorry. I know it may trivialize what you went through. I understand that. But if you can translate it into something that I can… Questioner: It was a difficult place. Our people always assumed, when I told them, where I worked, and what I did that it was difficult, because it was young men, in their mid and late 20s, or early 30s. That we were working with as they were dying and working with their families. But I also was working with an amazing team of people who were absolutely dedicated to what we were there for. And I don't want to say I lost my fear of death. I guess that would be a bit too melodramatic, but I found it somehow beautiful. That's weird. I'm at loss for words. But to clean the body at 03:00 a.m. And there was one man, who, an older nursing assistant, who had a practice of opening the window, and would say, okay, goodbye now, take care. And I picked that up from him. And speaking to the corpse as we walked in. Just being respectful… Larry: Okay here's why I ask. Many worthwhile things can go on in work of that sort. In other traditions, it's called God's work. It's good work. You probably were very helpful to the people, towards the end, tremendously helpful. But just being exposed to dying people, unless it's related to, in a certain way, doesn't necessarily liberate you. If otherwise, if it did, then the morticians would be among the most liberated groups on the planet. They're not, you know, and they see death, day in and day out, or surgeons, or doctors, or nurses, people who are… Break_line: So, there's another step that's required, and it's somehow even getting comfortable…let's say I'm sure many good things came out of it. I can hear just in a few words you mentioned. Obviously, they are, and they are spiritual qualities. Probably you're more compassionate, kinder. Did it help you liberate yourself. The, not only are you doing something for the person who's dying, but they're actually giving you the last gift that they have to offer, which is they're helping you to understand, what we've been talking about here. And if that can affect you in such a way, as to become freer, kinder, et cetera, then it becomes a spiritual practice in a second. Do you see what I'm getting at? Questioner: Yes, I do. I guess obviously I can't go back to the past. As I say, I didn't have a practice, wasn't there quite yet. But I would hope, that if I had a similar experience now, as I did working with old gentleman, I would be relating to it differently, probably closer to what you're saying. Larry: Yes. For example, the first the experience I mentioned of sitting with a corpse for many hours, it contributed dramatically to help me learn the art of observation, and to look at my own fears. A lot of wonderful things came out of it, made it easier from that point on. But I didn’t get a whole lot of…but I didn't quite get the message that it was about me, too. That it wasn't him lying there, but I was lying there as well, because I was still rather new to the practice. That came a little bit later. So that's all I'm getting at. Questioner: Can this then still be acquired by reflection in hindsight, now that I'm developing? Larry: Sure, why not? Questioner: Experience to think, what truly could I now regain from that experience? Larry: Yeah, it depends again yes, it depends again how you do that reflection. If the reflection is taken deeply inside and has juice. One good way is to sit before you do the reflection. Do you do this practice or some related practice? Questioner: Yeah. Larry: Is to sit first, calm down, even just a few minutes of breath awareness, and then take the reflection in. And you can use it in the way that you're suggesting. Definitely, yeah. End_time: 01:04:47
