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Talk: 19890524-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-conscious_breathing_ii_reflections_on_anapanasati_ii-1567 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 01:07:47 Display_question: In reference to the sixteen steps, when one has mastered, say, step two. And going to step three, that decision to go to the next step, is that just natural process? Keyword_search: sutra, contemplation, breath, systematic training, samadhi, calm, steadiness, impermanence Question_content: Questioner: Is it possible…because when I read the sutra, I had a slightly different interpretation. I'm wondering if it's incorrect. I wonder if one were to stay with the first one, or two steps, if one would naturally go through. I looked at it as a process one naturally went through, as opposed to something that one says well now I go to the fourth, now I go to the fifth. Larry: No, you’re right see the ideal way of doing it is you don’t say now I’ll go to the fourth, now I’ll go to the fifth. You master one before you go to the other. You see that now, what is mastery? It's not like there's a certificate or we're going to send you some credential, but let's say, just say something like long and short. You really get to know long and short, thoroughly, so you have total confidence, that you know when it's happening. You also get to know that when the breath is deep, how it conditions the body in this way, and when it's shallow, how it conditions it in another way. Break_line: And so, you might spend a long time on just the first and second. And ideally, there's no need to move beyond that until that lesson feels pretty well learned. So that your instinct is the correct one. Yes, in teaching it here, we have a 20-week class on it. And so, of necessity, I can dwell just so long on it. And we all know that it doesn't mean that everyone has necessarily mastered that step. We move on anyway. Questioner: One has mastered, say, step two. And going to step three, that decision to go to the next step, is that just natural process? Larry: Well, you see, if you want to do the sutra, then you already have this information. It would be unwise to do this unless you understood the sutra. Before I undertook this as a personal retreat, I studied it, with teachers, and I studied commentaries, et cetera, because otherwise those words… I added a lot. In back of those words, you would be doing something, but it wouldn't necessarily be following this sutra. See, if you're using this as your guide, then at a certain point it makes sense to keep moving on, because it's a form of systematic training. Break_line: Now, but what I suggested earlier is anything that deepens your samadhi, you could just use the breath the way you already are. All of you, just here, forget everything I said tonight. And if you can get samadhi to be deep enough, then you could try it. And then just go to the 13th, and investigate impermanent, as deeply as you would like, and see what comes out of that. The traditional way is usually much more thorough, and painstakingly detailed. I'm not saying that that's wrong, I actually agree with it. But it isn't absolutely essential, because the real question is because all of these were helping to develop calmness and steadiness. Break_line: Now, if you have that calmness and steadiness, however you got it, then there's no reason that you have to just go through this like you have to go through first grade, second grade, third grade, just go right to impermanence. But if you go to impermanence, I don't mean from time to time, but if you go to it as expecting it to be a dominant, sustained contemplation, and you don't have much samadhi, it's probably not going to work out too well. End_time: 01:11:10
