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Talk: 19850218-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-dialogue_problems_with_practice-1523 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 01:23 Display_question: How do I stay attentive to getting caught, without getting swept away, in the inner dialogue? Keyword_search: attention, attentive, breath, anger, sadness, resentment, love, joy, wakeup, Buddha, Krishnamurti, meditation, daydreams, nightmare, mind, identified, postman, dog Question_content: Questioner: I have a question about the process of giving attention. What I found happening was that… not only did I get caught, in things, but I found myself attending to they getting caught. Larry: But that's good. That's it, in fact. If I hear you correctly. Questioner: Well, I think you do, and I'm not sure that I meant what I said. I could see the getting caught… miles down the road. So my question is… about either how to stay attentive to the getting caught, or how to bring myself back before I… just left the planet essentially. Larry: Okay. It's hard for me…without it being more concrete, but its…you're with your breath? Questioner: I'm with my breath and well, essentially what I found happening was having conversations with someone… containing a lot of anger a lot of sadness, a lot of resentment, a lot of love, a lot of joy, the whole range. Larry: Right. Questioner: So in each conversation, I would get caught in all the… Larry: Okay. Now that's what you mean by getting caught. Questioner: Yea Larry: Okay now I think I under…yea Questioner: I left the breath completely, what seemed to be hours, and obviously it wasn’t. Larry: But it may have been… Questioner: Yes Larry: It may have been years. Yeah. What can we do… if you're asleep for years, you are. Maybe we can implant electrodes, or an alarm clock, or something, but all that we can do is as soon as you notice that you're caught, in other words, as soon as you notice you're asleep, you wake up. So from that point of view, we're endlessly beginning over, and over. No matter how long you're doing this practice…you could be doing it a thousand years, if you fall asleep, wake up. We start again and again. It gets smoother, and the gaps become… fewer. And the continuity develops. But I don't know if there's any human being who… who doesn't fall asleep, from time to time, on themselves. Maybe the Buddha didn't. I don't know. He's not around to tell us. Krishnamurti says he does. Others that I've talked to do. They correct very quickly. Break_line: So, you notice that, and you're back to the breath. Or you could stay with the thoughts, in other words, if that… melodrama that you described it's raging, and very strong. If you want to tune into it, like a soap opera, you know that channel, and listen to it. If you're able to listen to it, then you're not caught. Then it's meditation again. It's very different to listen to, let's say, daydreams… to really just listen to them, or to be daydreaming. They're very different. Unfortunately, what happens, is that if you really listen to the daydream, it's so insubstantial, it's just fluff, that by and large, usually just falls away. When you're caught, you invest it with such reality that it's as if that's what your life is. Break_line: And that's an important thing to learn…to see that a lot of the things that tyrannize us aren't, in a certain sense, are not really real, or they don't have the reality that we think they do. They have some level of reality. It's like… a dream. When you're in the dream, or let's make it more dramatic, a nightmare. It can be very condescending for a person to say, well, that was merely a nightmare. While it was happening…the heart is pounding, sweat is breaking out, terrified, you do anything. You know it's very convincing. And at a certain point you wake up, and then maybe you have a good laugh, and then you're condescending about yourself. You look back, and say, ho ho, ho. That was just a mere dream, because you're now in a clearer state. You're not identified with all that dream world, dream tigers that are going to eat you, and so forth. Somewhat like that… Break_line: In other words… if we're not alert, the mind produces things. We get identified with it, and then that's the world that we're living in. And it might as well be real because we've invested it. It's so convincing. And more, and more, those things will be caught. We'll see them. Sort of something…you start to get a feeling for it, and you see it for what it is. Is Rick here? Different one. Break_line: Okay. It's something like this. He was a postman, and he got bitten by a dog while on his route. That really happened. Bite, bite. Ow. Painful. But then in one sitting… this happened last year or so… with sweat pouring down his brow. You could see it was just incredible what he was going through. And then after the sitting, we talked about it. It was the same thing, but he was talking about it, as if he had just gotten bitten by a dog, while delivering the mail. His mind bit him. There was no dog there. You know it's really important to see that… there's no dog. He bit himself. You know, there's no blood, there's no postal uniform, there's no mail. End_time: 06:58
