Reality Check EP 012

The hosts discuss the issue of reasonable cause testing at UPS. They explain that management often uses fake behavior and fabricates issues to test employees. They emphasize the importance of notifying the union if there is a problem before management takes action. They also mention the option of requesting a blood test as well as a urine test during testing. They stress the need to have a witness present during the request. They highlight the importance of coming forward and seeking help through the Substance Abuse Program if there is an issue. They caution that management may intentionally irritate employees to provoke a reaction. They conclude by urging listeners to be proactive and seek assistance if needed. Teamster Power 767 Reality Check with Jeff Schenfeld and Garfield Hooper. How's it going today, Garfield? It's going pretty good. Good, we're good. Another day at UPS is another day where they seem to try to do whatever they want, right? Yeah, you always gotta put out fires. It's like the company would just be on fire all the time if it wasn't for people that, you know, do the work every day. Yep, no, absolutely. I mean, this is what we've been dealing with for years, and it's never going to stop because that's their framework for doing things. Yep. So today we want to talk about reasonable cause testing. Now, as a steward and as a BA, I've, you know, dealt with members in different situations, and the company gets dirty sometimes. You know, they think that someone might be, you know, smoking or drinking alcohol on the job, and they'll – what you have to do is management has to get two members of management who are trained to observe someone, and they have to come up with, I think it was about 20 things that they notice wrong with, you know, with an employee. What sort of training do they give them? They go online and get it. That's it. Oh, okay. It's not training. Yeah, it's a questionnaire they fill out. Yeah, it really is. It's just to say, okay, we're officially – you know, we're supervisors. We've done all this. We've gone through the rigorous process of – you know, and they really didn't do anything. And, you know, they just get with management, and they agree on, oh, look, he's irritated. What they'll do is they'll get the person irritated and be like, look, that's one of the things we're noticing. They're irritated. Well, you just made him irritated. I mean, these are the things they do. Watch them do it. Turns out this job can be really irritating sometimes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they'll just notice things. Well, you know, they're not looking at us in the eye. They're just – you know, they'll look like they're tipsy and stuff. And then some of the stuff won't even be true. I'm serious. In these cases, most of them, they're making up a lot of the stuff just to get someone tested. Wait, wait, Jeff. Jeff, are you saying that the company is lying about things, about these things? Yes, they are. They are. They really, really are. And it's been – that part's frustrating because they just, oh, no, we got you, okay. And there might not be anything, but they just want to – the person could be doing nothing, but they want to get them so bad that they're going to, you know, have them tested no matter what, you know. And it's crazy. I mean, have you ever in these situations like that? Have you ever dealt with it? Have you ever heard of any of these situations? I've heard of a few of these situations. I've never – fortunately, I never had to deal with any of them personally. I know we've had – we had a driver way back when that had an issue with cocaine. We had, of course, a couple of drivers that, you know, have had issues with marijuana. But some of them go to the SAP program. Some of them get fired. And it's really kind of difficult to navigate those situations because you're not – I'm not – I haven't been put in those situations, so I'm not 100% sure how to tell the member how to go about it. And it seems like some of the people at the hall don't really have a lot of that information either, so. Yeah, yeah. And it might be, you know, for whatever reason they haven't dealt with it, you know, they haven't gone through it. And I just happen to have gone through it with a lot of members. I don't say that proudly. Believe me, I don't. Yeah. You know, I just – it's just something – I mean, a lot of them. You know, this is what the company does, but understand something. I'm going to – I mean, this is directly from the language. Documentation of the employee's conduct shall be prepared and signed by the witness within 24 hours of observed behavior, even if it is fake behavior, you know, that they're making up. Yeah. Or before the test results are released, whichever is early. In addition, a copy of it will be sent to the local union in a timely manner. So what happens is – so, you know, the behavior, that they'll give you the next day. They're going to observe you. They're going to say, okay, we're going to take you for reasonable cause testing. Bottom line is you can't say no. You have to go. Yeah. But the thing is, and I want everyone to know this, if there's an issue you think you're having, you can get with your steward or someone, you know, business agent, someone from the union, and you let them know you have a problem because here's the important thing. If you come to management after the fact and they've already got you, you can't get into the SAP program. You have to come to them before. You have to, you know, give someone a heads up that, you know, there's an issue there. Yeah. And that's where some of the things come into play too because management's like, nope, it's after the fact. I need everyone to know that if you're truly having an issue, even though the company is doing what they're doing the wrong way, but it's going to make you pop on a test. Yeah. It's something you need to come forward so we can get with management. We have to say, okay, this person has a problem. They'd like some help and, you know, but so what happens is, so let's just go through this. They take him to the testing center, probably a consensual or care now. Yeah. And, you know, they're going to ask for a urine test. Now, here's the important part, and I learned this years ago. In a contract, you can ask for a blood test as well because a lot of times the blood test conflicts with the urine test. Now, I can tell you this right now. Care now and consensual will say, we don't do this. Okay. We're not going to argue with them right there. That's fine. But when you ask for a blood test, you need to have a witness there. Someone there you know or on the phone that says you asked for the blood test. Yeah. Call a steward. Have them on speakerphone with you. Call your VA. Have them on speakerphone with you. Be like, hey, I want a blood test to confirm this. And when they go, nope, we don't do that, be like, okay, that's it. And, yeah, let them give them the urine test and everything. Yes, you let them do that, everything, and what's going to happen is there was a witness there. And no matter what, because they didn't give it to you, everything gets thrown out. Right. This isn't a free pass. No. Okay, this isn't, oh, look at me, I got away with, you know, this and that. That's not what this is, okay? Because when everything's said and done, okay, that goes away, they're going to be looking for it. So if you have an issue, you need to come forward to someone in the union, steward or VA, and you need to let them know because they're going to come after you. If they came after you then and they messed up, they're going to come after you again. So if you have a problem, you have to be the one to start the process, not management. And, you know, I tell people this and, you know, they're like, well, you know, I got off on this and that. Okay, do you have a problem? And you ask them, you're hoping they're being honest with you, right? Yeah. I mean, you want them to be honest with you. I mean, you want to have that conversation, you need to be. I mean, you need to tell them, hey, you need to be honest with me because this could make a difference for your career. It's a tough thing, a lot of things going, but we're saying this right now, you need to get ahead of this if there's a problem. If you have to get in the program because they're going to catch you some way, somehow. And again, also, here's the thing. If you have a problem and you're on the road, we can't have that. We don't want you dying or anyone else dying because of something that you're doing. So we're, you know, we're protecting everyone involved. That's what this is doing. This isn't a free pass. And I have to say that it's very important because it can become a serious thing. And people are like, well, I came forward. No, you came too late. And if you have any questions, you need to sit down and speak with your B.A. or student who might know the process. And just somebody you can talk to who can talk to them and just get in touch with them and get ahead of this. You know, once you get in the, you know, it's the Substance Abuse Program, the Substance Abuse Professional, you know, SAP program. And you could be in that program for up to five years. But guess what? You're in that program. If you have an issue, you get clean. Okay. That's good. That's a good thing. And, you know, it's they're going to they're going to keep you. They're going to do testing and whatnot. And they're allowed to do random testing once you're in the program. Okay. But it's there to help. Okay. But what I really, really, really, really want to say is I think management will, going back to it, management will get you irritated. I'm telling you, I've seen it happen. Oh, you're getting me irritated. And they do it. And it's so frustrating looking at it. And you're trying to shut down the member so they're not going to, you know, get too crazy. But, I mean, they can't help it. This is management knows this. And like I said, they can keep you in the program for up to five years, which that is what it is. Once you commit to that, once you say, I need help, then they can hold you there. And I can already hear a lot of people listening to this and be like, well, you know, I do this stuff on the weekends. Or, you know, I smoke weed. Or I do this or do that. And, you know, I don't do it during the week. But, you know, it doesn't affect me. Or I can work through it fine. Or, you know, it's ridiculous that, you know, half of the country thinks this is illegal and the other half doesn't. It doesn't matter. Yes. It matters what – in the contract. And if they think that you are drinking or smoking weed or something else on the job. And, like you said, all it takes is two members of management agreeing on it. Like that have been, quote, unquote, trained on it. So, you know, they'll do what they have to if they think you're doing something wrong or if they don't like you. And it will cause you to get tested. And sure, you may get out of one of them. But, you know, chances are it's going to catch up with you eventually. You know, I don't want to – I'm not one to tell people how to live their lives. But this is a career that you do. And if you value that career, maybe it's a good idea to stay away from that stuff. Well, yeah. I mean, I had it one time where the member was like, well, it's legal in Colorado. I'm like, oh, okay. Is that what you're really saying to me? You know, first of all, it's UPS policy and, you know, we're not in Colorado. I mean, it's just – you know, and they'll try excuses. But I guess if you're having an issue, you know, maybe with addiction or whatnot, then that's what's going to happen. You're going to fight it or whatnot. And, you know, what it comes down to is, you know, was it the milliparts or, you know, how much – they'll know if you just smoke occasionally or if you're a heavy smoker or if you – Yeah, yeah. Okay, whatever it might be, whatever the drug is, they'll know. And there's a limit, and it shows up in the test. But I think that if you're in this situation, it's – you try to remain calm. You get a steward right away. You say you don't want to speak to anyone until you invoke your wine garden rights. Yep. And you've got to follow the process and always, always, always ask for a blood test. Always. That's important. It's – yes, no matter what. And also what happens is the chain of custody gets broken also. That's happened a bunch of times. There are a lot of mistakes that happen. And, again, those are just technicalities. If you know you're dirty, I mean, like I said, it's just a technicality. They're going to keep coming after you. So if there's an issue, you know, you come forward. You help sort this out. A VA or a steward is going to help sort this out with you. And this is all – all of this stuff is in Article 35. Yep. So if you want to be more interested in this stuff, you want to be more aware of it, you know, if you're a steward that, you know, may have to deal with this in the future, you know, check out – you know, kind of come over Article 35. If you're more interested in, like, the exact levels, like that's taken – those are in Article 35 Section 3.3 and 3.4 for the testing. You know, that will give you the exact numbers they're looking for in the screening tests and the confirmatory tests. Yeah, yeah. These numbers don't mean much to me, but, you know, maybe somebody out there knows a little bit more, you know, about that kind of stuff, you know, but they may be – that might be more informative to them. Well, yeah, yeah. And understand also in the different classifications, you know, it's – we don't have random testing. FEDERS has random testing. Yes. It's different for, you know, non-driving. There's new language for non-driving offenses or whatnot. So it's – like I said, it's a matter of getting with a steward or a VA, and they can show you the contract and what it is, your classification, because it's going to be different. But bottom line is, you know, just take care of yourself. Just do the right thing. Yeah, make the right decisions. Like, you do this for a living. This is a career that, you know, you want to keep up with. Yeah. And, you know, don't put that at risk over, you know, something stupid. Yep. Just wanted to talk about this because it is very important. It really is. I'm sure we'll hit this a bunch more times on future podcasts because it's that important, like everything else in the contract. So – but we definitely will be hitting this again. So I'm Jeff Schenfeld. And I'm Garfield Hooper. Our experiences deal largely with the Southern Region Supplement. This is just an information podcast, and if you have questions, it's best to contact your local steward or business agent. And remember, strong people stand up for themselves, but the strongest people stand up for others.