Student Voices Ep 2

The podcast episode discusses the Student Voices program, which aims to highlight student perspectives on educational inequities. The host interviews a student named Jaclyn, who shares her hobbies and interests, as well as her aspirations to become a lawyer. They also discuss the importance of mental health and the impact of the school environment on students' well-being. Jaclyn expresses concerns about the pressure to perform academically and the lack of awareness about available mental health resources. They suggest improving access to information and support through announcements and counselor outreach. Welcome, lifelong learners, to the second episode of the Student Voices podcast. We are so excited for you to join us in our purpose of highlighting student perspectives to co-create an equitable educational system. This podcast provides a platform for students across the state to share their perspectives on educational inequities in classrooms, schools, and districts, and their dreams of an equitable education system. If you are new to the Student Voices or Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity, we just want to share a little history with you. The Dudley Flood Center is dedicated to eradicating educational inequities and started the Student Voices series in 2020 to demonstrate the capacity of students to discuss and provide perspective on social injustices facing our countries and schools. To learn more about the Student Voices program or the Flood Center, please check out our website at floodcenter.org. I'm your host, Rotimi Kukori, and we are joined today by Jaclyn, who will share her thoughts and perspectives. Jaclyn, we're so happy to have you on our podcast today, and I'd love to learn a little bit more about you. Could you share some of your hobbies or interests? Hi, I'm Jaclyn. I do marketing dance, like another one of my hobbies could be considered like reading, like I actually really like doing like a little crazy makeup, you know, like where you like yourself look like other stuff. That's really fun. Oh, that's super cool. Have you done any recent costumes that you want to brag about or like makeup looks? Oh, yeah. I made myself look like a doll a couple of days ago, and I like walked in my living room and I scared my mom. You know, that's what great power comes great responsibility, but that's cool. I wish I had that talent. Reminds me a little bit of the Hunger Games, actually. I guess on the professional side, do you know what you might want to study when you're older or what you might want to do for a job when you grow up? So I actually want to be a lawyer. Yeah. Can you speak a little bit more on that? Why a lawyer? Oh, well, I saw Legally Blonde, and I just I really liked how I didn't want to be a lawyer at first, but she did it for somebody else and then she learned to love it. Like I want to be a lawyer because I like that she was like pretty and in pink and she was just like her big thing was like being a woman, but also being a lawyer. Absolutely. I watched that movie for the first time, honestly, last year, and it was really good. It took me 19 years to watch it. I think that's cool. Again, as you start seeing more women in the workplace and taking on these more advanced roles, right? Making sure that the representation that we have is reflective of women and that they're not being forced to kind of silence or top away parts of their identity. And I just I'd love to hear more about your involvement in student voices as well. How long have you been involved with that? And if you had a project, what did you focus on? So I've only done student voices for this year. And for my project, I did talk about discrimination in Guilford County schools and like how it affects not only students, but also the school community. Yeah. And was there anything cool that you learned from that or anything you want to share with us that you just find really memorable? Honestly, the student voices, I really liked doing that presentation because it made me like get completely out of my comfort zone and I had to talk to a big group of people. And you know, normally I don't do that. I don't like really like going in front of people and talking about stuff. But the student voices program helped me learn to be more comfortable doing that. Well, I can tell you're doing a great job right now to keep it up. And on this episode, I wanted to call to attention the mental and behavioral health crisis that's been affecting young adults, teenagers and children across the United States for the past decade, probably longer, but it's been a really big issue. I know it's something that the state of North Carolina has actively chosen to prioritize. It's something that the Surgeon General has discussed. It's a question that's been on a lot of educators' minds of how do we address the complex needs of students in this year? So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you've witnessed, what you've experienced in regards to these issues. My first question is just, have you noticed some change in how your school discusses mental health, especially after the COVID-19 pandemic? I have noticed a change. Before COVID, student mental health wasn't really talked about, but also considering during that time, I was in middle school. So it wasn't really something that like continuously ran through my mind. But during COVID, because everyone was more at home, everyone was like focusing on themselves mentally and also physically. And the conversation became big, like everybody was talking about how COVID had affected them and like how it was like affecting their mental health. And everyone was kind of like, I don't want to say like a big circle, but it was generally like everybody was like coming together and talking about their problems. But then after COVID, I feel like it kind of went away like a little bit, not necessarily a lot, but it was like more focused on adults and not really students, if that makes sense. Mental health now, like when I'm in high school, it's talked about, but I don't feel like it is talked about as it should be. Okay. That makes sense. And so mental health students, you're spending multiple hours of your day at school in the classroom. Seven to eight normally is what it tends to be in high school. And obviously that's at least half of your waking day. And I'm wondering, from your perspective, how does the school environment that you're in affect students' mental health well-being? Are there specific stressors that you think are more or most common among your peers? I think the most I see is like people are constantly stressing about tests or like quizzes or their homework. I'm in an AP class and I know everyone, I know people who take more AP classes than me and even I'm stressed out, but everyone's worried about like their grades and like they're worried about like, oh, if I do good on this, will it help this? Or like, they're always like more focused on their GPA and stuff. And I feel like it's a huge workload also, because we have six classes, I believe. We have six classes. It's like there's always like homework for each class and everyone's always like worried about like doing their work on time. Yeah. And so on the note of students being worried about grades and GPA workload, I tell you, that's something that I still worry about too a lot in college and a lot of my classmates. But do you have thoughts on what the main reasons for that pressure is? Do you think it's more internal and the desire to just, you know, like compete or just further your education? Or are there some external pressures as well with the idea of, you know, getting ready to apply for college soon or parents and expectations on students? I believe that the problem is external because everyone's always like telling you like, oh, be the best that you can be. Make sure you make sure you get into college, like you can't get a good job if you don't finish high school. You can't get a job if you don't finish college. I do believe that other people are trying to compete with each other. But at the same time, it's like people are only trying to compete with each other because of the information they're getting from the outside. So to me, it sounds like we almost as an educational system have a reckoning, but we need to redefine how we measure and weigh the metrics of academic success as part of tackling this mental and behavioral health crisis. And so do you feel that you and your classmates are pretty well informed about the mental health resources that are available to you? I feel like I know much about it because my mom is an educator and also because my counselor, she sends out emails. I love my counselor. Shout out to her. She sends out emails about like stuff. And like, if you want to apply to something, she sends me emails about like early colleges or like programs like the NCCJ. I went to the NCCJ meeting and I was like talking about like registering them in school. I believe that through her and my mom, I see opportunities all the time. But then also I feel like other students, they might not have like the same counselor as me or like they don't have somebody like in their like circle that can like allow them to tell them stuff or like be like, hey, if you need help, like this is where to get it. Yeah. And so for students who don't currently have someone in their circle that's really connecting them to these resources and advocating for them, how do you think this awareness could be improved? Do you think that there's a resource or a specific position or person that should be stepping in to fill that gap? I feel like all the other counselors, if that's the case, that they should like also like try to reach out like my counselor does, but I can't really speak to that. I feel like also there should be like announcements because there's like multiple programs at my school that I wanted to do that I didn't find out about until like afterwards. So I feel like there should be like the little messages in Canvas that are like, hey, this is happening this day, this is happening that day and like allow students to like know in case they want to do something like that. Absolutely. So making this information as accessible as possible is a huge thing. I think, you know, there are definitely barriers that come up when you're relying on word of mouth and hearing from your peers and classmates. As you mentioned, you can miss events if you're just relying on your social network. So making sure that this information is blasted out to everybody. I think that's super important. I definitely agree. And looking at peer to peer support, what ways do you feel like students support each other regarding mental health? I feel like students, they mostly, they support each other because like they, I feel like students feel more comfortable talking to other kids about like what they're going through because these people can understand. I feel like also that students shouldn't like feel the need to like rely on each other because I don't feel like we're like therapists or I don't feel like we're counselors. I feel like we think that we can help each other, but also at the same time, sometimes we can't. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that can be a lot of pressure sometimes, you know, on your good friends and of course your friends, but sometimes also just not knowing what to do because, you know, if you're going there for so many years, you don't have professional training. I think that also touches on another thing. Do you feel like teachers and school staff are well-equipped then to support students with mental health challenges? Or do you think that they also kind of face some of the struggles of not actually being professional therapists or being expected to carry out some of these duties of therapists? Yeah, I feel like, I feel like they are prepared in a way, but also at the same time, they can't really do as much as students want them to because they're not a professional therapist. And sometimes also students may not even want to go to teachers or like counselors talking about their problems. So there's no really, there's not really a way to like help it in a way. So that sounds like two different issues there, one of them being stigma and being able to go talk openly about it, and the other one just being access to professional therapists. So, and would this be correct, if in your ideal vision of a school system, you would like to see schools have more in-house professional therapists available to students so that responsibility is offloaded from your classmates and from your teachers? I feel like that could help, but also I do believe, I'm not exactly sure, but I do believe that TCS does have free therapists that you can like see over Zoom. So I feel like that could also help if like more students were aware of that. So coming back to before investing in new resources, right, emphasizing the resources that are already there. So really targeting these information gaps. That's awesome. And so on to what you discussed a little bit, just a few sentences ago, we touched on stigma. Do you feel like there's a stigma around discussing mental health in your school? I do believe there is, because some people are like, they're like embarrassed with the problems they face and they don't really want like people to know about it, but also you can't really get help if you're only relying on yourself. Yeah. And so do you have any ideas for what might be effective for students who feel embarrassed? What type of changes might make them feel more comfortable going to adults or peers about the struggles they're facing? I don't really even have any ideas of like what can make students feel more comfortable because every, for every student like thinks a different thing towards stuff. Like what I think may be embarrassing, other students may not find embarrassing, so I can't really focus. Yeah. That's totally reasonable. Totally understandable. And looking at this now from a systemic level, are there any policies or programs that you think your school's implemented that have either positively or negatively impacted student mental health? I think that something that helps some student mental health is could be like our learning hub program, because it's like some people like may feel embarrassed or like they can't do something. Could you explain what the learning hub program is? Oh, so our learning hub is an after school program where you can go and you get like help with like your assignments or if you just need some like a place to like do your homework or, and they also feed you dinner, I'm pretty sure. But it's like an environment where like teachers are there, you can ask questions, like you can get the help you need without other people there, if that makes sense. On the note of the mental health services that's currently provided by your school district, have you heard that those tend to be effective for you and your peers or do students want to see a little bit more positive growth in those areas? I feel like they do help, like I know a friend who used the free therapist, and they like all I heard was positive feedback, like they felt like their therapist really helped. And like also I've heard even like from adults, how they also have used like the free therapist like how they like genuinely feel better, but also, yeah, all I've heard is like positive feedback and like how it can make you feel better and like how it helps their mental health. That's super encouraging to hear. And again, it really comes back to this idea that your school district seems to have the resources available for students and teachers, but people just aren't necessarily super aware of them. And so where you guys can really have a lot of positive growth is in helping to make sure that people know the resources and can get connected to them. That's awesome. And then now looking at some more external influences, I'd love to hear what you think about the role that social media plays in the mental health of students at your school. I feel like social media plays a very big part because everyone's always like trying to pretend to be something that they're not because of what they see. And it's like, if you see on social media that like, like if you see something on social media, you're most likely like want to be like that, you're not really going to be thinking about like what they're doing. You're just going to kind of like just be influenced by that. And you're not going to like genuinely like think about like, oh, how could this possibly affect me now or even in the future? You're just kind of like worrying about like everyone else. But also social media is like everybody, you can get to absolutely anybody through social media. And it's like, I feel like even like bullying and stuff, like you can like do that so much easier than like there was in social media. And now because everybody has a phone and everybody's online, we can just kind of like do kind of whatever. And I don't think there's not a consequence, but the consequences aren't as bad as if you would do something like that in person. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I think, you know, you have this there's this term I get thrown out called keyboard warriors, which is a sense that you feel a lot more empowered to say things that you wouldn't say in person that you do online. And I think I've definitely seen that play out. It also gets to the idea that now we kind of sit to each other almost 24-7, you can contact people at whatever time, whereas in the past, you know, you actually had to be face to face with people. And so that has made it to where you can have conversations about this with your friends, other people that live near you, but with complete strangers across at any time that don't know you. And so we can see a lot of this really polarizing conversations and topics online. And I know that that's mental health and social media, that intersection is something that's been talked a lot and government and educational systems about what that role looks like. Now, Florida recently has been trying to enact some legislation to actually ban social media for people under 14 and pretty strictly regulated for those 15 to 16. Do you have any thoughts on what legislation like that would do? Do you think it'd be effective? Do you think it's a little bit over the top? Or yeah, what are your thoughts? I think it would actually be effective at the same time as just a little bit over the top. If you're in middle school, I feel like you should not have social media because that's like when you're like growing as a person and if you're just like influenced by what you see other people who are doing that are older than you, you're not going to be your own person. You're going to continue to try to do something that you're not. But I feel like also if you're if it's restrictive from 15 to 16, that's also that's good because you're not like seeing things that aren't for your age or like you're just kind of like focusing on like you see things that are for you, you see things that are being done by other people your age and it can like create an environment for you that you feel like safe for it. Right. Yeah. And do you personally feel like you have a good sense of who to go to or where to go if you see something that's dangerous or scary online that you want to talk to an adult about? I feel like I do. If I ever have a problem with something, I feel like I can always talk to an adult like I don't ever feel like there's like I'm like hopeless and there's like nothing really I can do. I also feel. Not like. Some stuff on the Internet should be like, I don't want to be like a censor, but it should be restricted, like, yeah, you can only get there if you really want to get there. Oh, yes, in a sense where you're not necessarily being so scared by some things that you just really don't want to see. And I know that content algorithms, I know apps like Instagram and Facebook, they try to be a little bit better at screening sensitive topic and content. But again, there's just so many things that slip through the cracks. Right. Because there's so much information, it's impossible for one person to go through and look at everything. But it sounds like we need a lot to protect children. We need a lot stricter just oversight and regulation of what's going on there so that we're not necessarily that we're still going to see some consequences if bad things are happening. Looking at the cultural compatibility of the mental health resources and conversations at your school, you feel like these are coming from a an equity minded perspective and that the mental health resources are culturally sensitive and inclusive? I feel like I kind of don't feel that way. I feel like it's easier for some people to be able to get the resources that they need. But not everybody is going through the same thing and not everybody has the same environment around them in which they're able to get the help they need. Yeah, that makes sense. And again, it's not all of these problems and issues are not one size fits all solutions, so there's going to be some nuance to every solution and complex problem that you're trying to address. And so reflecting on some of the issues we've talked about today, social media, bullying, access to information, stigma when going to teachers and stress from academics to schools, what changes or improvements would you like to see in how schools address mental and behavioral health in the future? So for mental, I would like to see that like they're very they're more open about it. It's not like something that you have to come and discover on your own, but it's something right there. That way you always know what your possibilities are, like what you can do, like if you want help with something, there's always like a way for you to get it. But also with behavioral, I feel like I don't feel like suspensions work. If I'm being so real, it just feels like a break off the school. And I understand that it goes on your record, but suspension doesn't really do anything. So suspending somebody from their actions isn't going to be like it's not going to help the situation. They could come back and do the exact same thing and it can really help. Yeah, that makes sense. And on that note, too, I want to just call attention to the fact that students of color are disproportionately punished for the same offenses that their white counterparts are. So in schools, you see black students being expelled at rates that are two to three times higher than their white peers for the same level of offense. So, again, like equity kind of has to be infused at every step of this process. And then on the other end, on the other end of that, you mentioned the idea that just sending somebody as punishment doesn't necessarily address the underlying problem. Right. So looking at the system from the top down, it sounds like it's so important to make sure that, again, you're not just focusing on the reprimand or the punishment, but also helping to rehabilitate people and to give them access to the resources and support that they need to address the underlying problem. Right. Because if you if you have a bullet hole in your arm, you put a bandaid over it might stop the bleeding for a little bit. Right. But it's not actually going to fix the problem and you have to fix the underlying problems. What it sounds like you're really encouraging people listening to this to do right now and thinking is to think about what are the underlying problems that are causing these mental and behavioral crises in your school and how can you address those at the surface level, looking deeper at the problem, whether that's inside or outside the classroom. I'll give you an opportunity to use this platform to thank people who played a role in your journey. Reflecting on your educational experience, is there a particular teacher, mentor, educator, or historical figure who has inspired you or influenced your educational journey? So I would say my mom, actually. My mom has been a very big part of my educational journey because she's an educator. She has allowed me to have the room I need to grow, but also influenced me to what I like and the stuff I do now. Like marching band, I actually really hated playing the flute. And I think you can ask anybody that's been in voices, but I was very vocal about how I didn't like it. But because she let, because she forced me to stay in that, I kind of like, I learned to love it. Like I actually love it so much. It's one of my favorite things. I feel like also because she like puts me out in like the open and she like doesn't allow me to back down from things. I also, I grow to learn how to do them and I learned that I can't just like back away from everything and that the things that you actually want are worth, they're worth fighting for. That's incredible. So is there a message that you'd like to convey to her here and now so when she listens to it, so you can have a nice surprise at the end? I feel that times 1000 to all the mothers out there. And I guess speaking to parents for Robbie, do you have any advice for other parents who are raising children your age? You know, the one we grew up in today is different than the world that many people's parents grew up in, you know, decades ago. So what would you like other adults who are just trying to figure out how to raise kids in this crazy world? Um, I would say to honestly, don't question them into things like you have to allow them to grow on their own. And then you need to remember that your kids aren't you and that we're in a different generation now. And that I don't want to say it's like completely different, but also at the same time, it's like, we have, we're learning things differently. And like, we have different like learning environments around us. Like we're not, it's not like how it used to be like everything. I'm not going to say accessible, but at the same time, it is more accessible. Like you have to, you have to be willing to like go out there and like, you can't just be like, yeah, we have to be more willing to like go out there and like help your kids more than you hurt your kids. Because if you're like solely thinking about like how you were or like how the people around you are, you're not going to be helping your kids at all. Absolutely. Thank you. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his iconic, I have a dream speech on August 28th, 1963, painting a vision of equality and justice that continues to inspire generations. The hundredth anniversary of that momentous day will be in 2063, which is 39 years away. That long timeline invites us to dream about the future, particularly in the realm of education, which is so close to Dr. King's heart. With that milestone in mind, I'd love to hear about your vision for the future of our classrooms. If we were to achieve the educational equity that visionaries like Dr. King and even Mr. W. Spud aspire to, what does your dream classroom look like in 2063? What would be different and what would stay the same? Um, I think my dream classroom, I would want it to be like a more hands-on environment. You know, like everything's like digital now, like we have Chromebooks and like stuff like that. We're like expecting to still work on them, but I feel like honestly, paper to pencil works a lot and that might not be the case for other people, but for me, it works really well. I feel like I learn more than writing down on a piece of paper and then typing on my keyboard. So I would feel like also more hands-on activities or like group work because you, you work great when you're by yourself, but you work great when you also have the opinions of others and they can also like help you to think of new things that you never even thought of. Like, um, but also I feel like our classrooms should be like an environment where kids feel safe. Like they're not like scared of anything, but also it's like strict teachers also work best because they're like, they kind of like make me drive myself to be like the best I can be. But like I said, like hands-on activities, like not completely digital, but also like a like safe, but strict environment where you can't like do whatever you want, but you also have like, you're also like not really forced to just like sit there and like stare at the board. Absolutely. And I echo a lot of the stuff. Thank you for sharing them. And that brings us to the end of our second episode of the Student Voices podcast. I'm your host for Timmy Concordia and thank you so much to our listeners for tuning in. We want to thank our guest Jacqueline for her insightful contributions and sharing her personal experiences with us all today. We'd also like to thank the Sandra Conway Foundation and the Burroughs Welcome Fund for supporting the work of the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity. We're excited to share that we are also looking for a theme song for this podcast and want students to help us create it. If you are a K-12 student who would like to learn how you can share your talent by creating a theme song for this podcast, please visit our website, floodcenter.org slash student dash voices slash student. So listeners, we hope today's conversation has sparked your curiosity, inspired you to think about the changes you'd like to see in our educational environments. Remember, your voice matters and it's through conversations like these we can begin to shape a more inclusive and representative future. Please join us for the next episode where we'll continue to explore themes that push educational equity forward and bring light to the voices that need to be heard.