BBB_Episode7

Eileen Garcia

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TitleBBB_Episode7

AuthorEileen Garcia

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Uploaded19 May 2024

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Three friends discuss their thoughts on the book "First Lie Wins" by Ashley Elston. They talk about the thrill and suspense of the story, the interesting past and present timeline structure, and the setting of the book. They also mention the audio book version and the narrator's attempt at a Southern accent. The book is recommended and they mention that it may be adapted into a TV show. We are Books, Blackouts, and Brunch, where we talk shit about some books we're reading, we black out in some bookstores, and we may or may not have a mimosa or two in the process. I'm Aileen. I'm Kaylee. And I'm Megan. Welcome back, readers. Today we're talking about First Lie Wins by Ashley Elston. I'm excited to talk about this. It's a change of pace to a thriller. The description of this book is, Evie Porter has everything a nice southern girl could want. A doting boyfriend, a house with a white picket fence, a tight group of friends. The only catch? Evie Porter doesn't exist. Dun, dun, dun. The identity comes first, Evie Porter. Once she's given a name and location by her mysterious boss, Mr. Smith, she learns everything there is to know about the town and the people in it. Then the mark, Ryan Sumner. The last piece of the puzzle is the job. Evie isn't privy to Mr. Smith's real identity, but she knows this job isn't like the others. Ryan has gotten under her skin, and she's starting to envision a different sort of life for herself. But Evie can't make any mistakes, especially after what happened last time. Evie Porter must stay one step ahead of her past while making sure there's still a future in front of her. The stakes couldn't be higher. But then Evie has always liked a challenge. I've got to say, even though I did finish this book with the audio book, I have been pronouncing it Evie this entire time. And so the first word out of the gate was Evie, and I was like, oh. I heard, I clocked Evie a second ago, and you were, you were like, yeah, Megan starts with Evie Porter, and I was like, I have not been saying Evie. I have been saying Evie. This is giving filet. Yes. This is an interesting book. I cannot remember the last time I read a thriller. I was really into thrillers in middle school. Really? And I dropped off them like hardcore once I hit high school and kind of stopped reading because life got busy. And when I came back to reading as an adult, I went straight to fantasy and romance. So it's probably been like 10 years since the last time I read a thriller. And I had so much fun reading this. Like, I'm so happy we picked this book. Good. Oh, my God. I also thought it was like a fun little like, I don't know. I don't read a lot of thrillers. I think the last one I read was probably The Silent Patient, which if you haven't read, I do recommend. I used to like thriller mystery type books. Also when I was in like middle school, and then kind of stopped picking them up. I think like the inherent anxiety inside of them, like it does not go well with my actual anxiety. Fair enough. But I did enjoy that it was like a cute little like fast paced, moving change of scenery for us. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I go in waves of like wanting to read thrillers. And then I just like drop off of them for a long time. But this one, I feel like it was almost not as like thrillery as some of the other thrillers I've read, if that makes any sense. No, it completely does. Because it felt like this, like the things were obviously high, but it wasn't like, I don't know. It just felt a little bit different, which was fun. Like it didn't have the same exact feeling as some other ones that I've read. It was like suspenseful, and it was like a psychological thriller, but I appreciated that I never, even though like there is death that happens at some points, and like there is like danger involved. I didn't feel the whole time, like the main character's life was at risk or anything like that. Like, and I don't know, I think that made it more palatable to me for sure. Yeah. I think a lot of the thrill was like trying to guess what was happening next and who was on what side and who people actually were and kind of what subplots were happening and reading into like what was going on behind the scenes that the narrator knew, but you didn't know. Yeah. Rather than being entangled off the end of a building or something dramatic. Right. Yeah. I also really enjoyed getting to read about her past jobs and like how the connections kind of came to be. I really, I found myself just like patiently waiting for the next chapter where it would like tell me about one or four other jobs. I'm like, Ooh, how does she know this person? And they talk about, I'm like, Oh, thank God. I want to hear more about like this, this timeline that she has. Yeah. I made note of that as well. Like the past and present split screen, it's usually hit or miss for me. I've like, I've read other books that have that and sometimes it works and sometimes it's like it can make the book drag. But with this one, I felt like it had a purpose. Right. And that made it really enjoyable. Yeah, I agree. Cause I feel like I was going to say sometimes when books do that, it's almost like, why? Yeah. Like half the time you're like, okay, like great. But also what is this doing for the current story? Whereas this kind of gave you like a nice background on her, like what she'd been through, different jobs she'd had, like what, what was the reasoning behind like Mr. Smith, like her not wanting to like disappoint him and like learning that instead of it just being like an open ended, like, oh, she must've like messed up. But it being explained, I think was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of times I find it very like interruptive almost. Yes. Like Addy LaRue does that a little bit. If you've read it where it jumps back and forth in time. I haven't. And I found it exceptionally disruptive and that story, I didn't hate it in this one. I liked what we got from it. And it was generally, I felt like well placed, like where we would, you know, reference the character and that we're meeting in some capacity in her current life. And then we jump into the past. So I think it was like decently well done. Cause yeah, that's really hit or miss for me as well. So do we want to kind of start and just kind of talk about the different pieces? Yeah. I want to, I don't want to spend too much time on the setting because ultimately I don't think that's like that important to the story. The main reason it stood out to me is because like, I read the majority of the book, like the physical copy. And then I was like hitting a time crunch and work was getting busy. So I was like, let me just switch to audio book to finish it. When reading the physical book, it was kind of easy to forget that they were in the South. Like aside from the location mentions and stuff like that, it just wasn't that big a part of the story. But listening to the audio book, the narrator was like, what it sounded like is that she would suddenly remember that they were in the South and she would randomly start to do a Southern accent. And she would just like, forget about it just as quickly. So I was just very like, so are we going to do this or not? Like pick one. That is so interesting. That's always the fun part about the audio. You're really seeing if the person like stuck to the task. Yeah. Did they read the prompt? Maybe like some chapters she was like, I don't know, maybe it was at the top of like, remember Southern setting. Right. And then like other chapters, she's like, give me such a giggle every time. Like, there were a couple of times I would have to rewind because I was like, I fully didn't pay attention. Cause I just got so taken out. Remembering we're in the South and trying to do this terrible accent and then dropping it. That is so funny. Wow. I'm kind of obsessed with that. Yeah, actually it's on Spotify premium. So if you're curious. Okay. I always forget Spotify has books now. I do too. I really need to like use that. You can only do like one a month. I think so. Really? Even with premium. I didn't know that. Yeah. Cause I was going to do, I was actually Jacob, our friend mentioned it and I was like, oh, I should do that for this because the Libby hold was still like a month out. And I hadn't started yet. I read this book in like two days. Like I was very much like, guys, I haven't started. And we like, I like flew through it. Cause I was like time crunched, but it's also just very fast paced. Yeah. But I was going to do it. And then I was like, you only get one of those a month. And I was like, is this the one that I do? But it was the end of, I think it was the end of April. So like, you're probably fine. True. Yeah, that's true. But that's always good to know though, because if you have a book that you really want to listen to and Libby is like, it's going to be 18 weeks. You're like, all right, well, I'll be moved on by them. Like I would like to read this now. Yeah. Cause I forgot that I'd even put it on hold on Libby because it has been so long since we talked about doing it. And it's still, I was like still five or six weeks out when I went and canceled it. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's insane. But I think it was a January book of the month book. And then it's just been really popular. And it's Reese's book club. I don't think it's being, because it's Reese's book club, it's being adapted for TV. Oh, is it really? Well, I read that, like it was at least in talks of being adapted to TV, which I think it, yeah, I think it was written very much like screen, screenplay ask. Like it was, it could be like a one season little show. Yeah. I think that Chris loves the, like a very confined seat, like show adaptation or a book adaptation to a show. He's like, I hate when they just like keep going for the sake of going. He's like, I would love, he's like, I love it when they like seal it off, finish it in like one or two seasons and you're like done. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get it very concise. Like you get what you needed to get from it. But I think there are some shows that like just continue and you're like, we didn't need to keep doing that. I completely agree. So I think like a nice, like 10 episode season would be perfection. Or maybe even a movie for this one. But like, yeah, I think it would work well, but I think that asks the question, did you feel like the ending like kind of wrapped up and was done? Because I was, so I was scouring Reddit. I just don't know. I don't know. We'll talk about that person in just a second. But like, and Reddit had very mixed opinions, A on the book and B just like, I don't know. Right. It was killing me. Cause there were a lot of people that were like, I'm sorry, can someone explain this book? Because I'm confused. And I was like, guys, I don't think it was rocket science. It wasn't that hard to follow. And then some people were talking about it being better as a screenplay. And then some people were talking about the ending and they were talking about how they felt like it was left when they took over, like when Amy and Evie took over the business and it left it very open ended for like more, if she ever wanted to write more or like if we ever wanted more of it. And I was like, I don't know. It felt very closed to me. It felt like a very like closing kind of like thing. But the comment in question that Meg referenced just a second ago, let me see if I can find it. I texted it to the chat earlier today. I am not going to say who posted this. Mostly because when I screenshotted it, it got cut off. This is your opinion on Reddit and you're listening. I'm so sorry. However, if we have that deep of a well of listeners right now, I'd be amazed. Yeah. I'd be honored. I don't know if all of Reddit is listening to our podcast. Unfortunately, they should maybe. They should maybe. Maybe we'd get some emails. They'd be like, we need you to talk about these things. Maybe. Um, but they said, so if you believe the simple day, day, new mom, they didn't, you didn't even, I don't know. I said that word in English. It looks like Danny mole. I'm friend. I also, is it a typo? Didn't, didn't, didn't you meant then the simple, I gotta be honest with you. When I read it this morning, I just autocorrected that to denouncement. And I don't know. I don't know if that is a word, but I just realized, let's Google. I know it is a word. We learned something new every day. Maybe the person is just way smarter than all of us. Um, yeah, that's fair. I still don't know how you say it in English. Oh, it is. It's a French. It sounds like it's French. Okay. Um, is the final part of a play movie or narrative in which the strands of the plot are drawn together and matters are explained or resolved. Okay. Anyway, so I say, Tivo, Kemp word. Yeah. Somebody did their SAT prep. Clearly. However, it said, if you believe the simple, then you want that. George is Mr. Smith. Then you've been duped by the obvious because now realizing then you want is a word. And they are just confused by this. Oh my God. So true. Their argument is that we're confused. So they say, if you believe the simple, then you want that. George is Mr. Smith. Then you've been duped by the obvious, just like the loser searching for Ralph case. Ugly painting. Okay. Okay. Gaslight, ganky girl boss. Leave me alone. If I want to believe what the author wrote, I'm sorry. This person. Okay. Hot take. This person is really wants to write fanfics. Uh-huh. It's with the author. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. 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We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. We've been losing. I really enjoyed how she kind of brought in her past to the present, and what we said earlier about how the information we gathered with the time jumps were actually helpful. All of that information was then used, for the most part, to create what was the present day situation. I think that was really big around too, the first one of those that really hit home for me was when she gave that number to Rachel, and was like, yeah, call this person. She was like, are you fucking stupid? Are you insane? She was like, call him. He owes me a favor. Then we go immediately to the backstory about who he's calling, or who she's calling, and what favor he owes, which I enjoyed. I also really liked the moment, especially knowing now, I didn't think about it, but knowing now who George was, the moment where she stops and talks to that senator, or that Tennessee mayor, or whatever he was, and then George sits down with her and is coming directly to him, that's bold. Do you really think he's in your back pocket? Knowing now that she was purposely drawing him out, and purposely like, yeah, you're following me, yeah, I need to chat with you, yeah, I want your boss, which is really you, to think that I have more than I do on those people. And I think that was clever. Yeah. I forgot about that. Me too. Speaking of Rachel, I loved Rachel. I read a comment on Reddit, and people were talking about, they thought this book was so misogynistic, and they thought that Evie's hatred of all women in this book was just like, so like, stereotypical, like, female, and like, she calls everybody a bitch, and she doesn't like the, they didn't like the like, the, like, Ryan's friends were described as being like, kind of gossips, and trying to get information, and just being nosy busybodies, and like, we only liked Rachel when she was like, bossy, and like, prominent. And I'm like, I didn't read it like that. I like, I guess I could see maybe where you would get that lens if you like, kind of come into it that way. But like, I read it more as like, she's doing her job. And in this situation, these people are acting very stereotypically. And so as part of like, just in the line of like, what she's doing, like running cons relies a lot on, like, that psychosocial, like, stereotype. And so like, she's aware of what that psychosocial stereotype is. I was reading it from almost the complete opposite point of view of like, she's understanding that the women are who are going to be intelligent enough to find and poke the holes in her story. And she has to impress and like, she, yeah, I just like, I did not think it was very misogynistic as a book. I thought like, whatever you mentioned. There was like a big like, Reddit thread about it, about how like, it's a very anti-women book. And I was like, Are we the misogynists? I don't know. I read it as like, Oh my god. Maybe we are? Oh! No, I read it as like, these women are like, good at finding information. Like, they are going to be the ones that are going to figure this out. They're nosy, they're digging, they're going to clock it when something doesn't add up. Yeah. And let's be real, like, James was the one friend of Ryan's, the man, who we knew wasn't going to figure anything out. Right. Right. No, I think it was very much like, to me, I was like, oh, like, the women here are like, the smartest players in all of this. Yeah. And they are the ones who are going, like, Amy, not leaving Amy, faking Amy's death, like, that's, and like, Mr. Smith didn't even figure that out. Well, and like, Rachel being like, on top of it the whole time, like, I actually loved her character. There was a brief moment where I thought maybe she was Mr. Smith, like a teeny tiny moment. I think you mentioned this. Yeah. I think it was her, but she ended up just being prevalent in other ways. I spoiled the end of the book, like, I read the last line where it was like, thank you, Mrs. Smith. That's right. So, when Ryan was, like, coming up as the potential Mr. Smith, I was like, this makes so much sense, because they're going to get married at the end of the book, they're going to end up together, and she's going to be Mrs. Smith, and he's Mr. Smith. And then, he wasn't. And that's not what happened. But that was, yeah, that was one of the spoil-y kind of, uh. How confused were you when, how confused were you when then Ryan wasn't Mr. Smith, but you had read that line? Ooh. I, well, I assumed it was one of two things. Like, I figured, my initial thought was, she either kills Mr. Smith or just takes his business. Like, that was my initial thought, was really that she killed him and she took over for him. Okay. But then, once Ryan started becoming, right, because that's what happened. But once Ryan started coming into the hot seat, I was like, oh, so maybe she doesn't kill Mr. Smith. Maybe she marries Mr. Smith. Okay. But then, I quickly flipped that back to the original. She kills Mr. Smith and takes his job. And then, you, because you had read that, but Eileen had previously texted and been like, I need to talk to somebody about this. Yes. So, you thought she had finished. Because she was like, I'm like 80% of the way through. And I was like, she's got to be done by now. So, Kaylee texted in our group chat and quite literally just put the last line of the book. And I was like, I tried to catch it. I should have just put an emoji over it. Like, I should have just, like, covered it with emojis. But I was like, all caps. I was like, Kaylee, Eileen hasn't finished yet. And she's like, oh, my God. Edits the message. Eileen's like, I have read it already. But honestly, it's fine. I was like, it could have been worse. It could have been worse. Like, I really don't think it was that bad. But I was just like, and I, like, knew exactly what you were talking about. So, my first reaction was just like, she hasn't finished yet. This is where I go brain off when I'm reading. It means nothing to me right now. Thank you so much. It's fine. I did, okay, I wanted to talk about, like, the title of the book and, like, the idea behind it. Because, like, that underlying premise carried throughout the book in a way I found really interesting. Because she does come back to it at the end when she's talking to the detectives. And I just thought, because, like, I'd never, I'd never necessarily, like, heard that idea before. I was Googling it, trying to find the quote. And apparently it's, like, an actual saying. Like, it's not, like, just this book. But I had also never heard it before. Yeah, I'd never heard it. And so it's, like, explain on page 27 of the, like, physical hardback. It starts, there's an old saying, the first lie wins. It's not referring to the little white kind that tumble out with no thought. It refers to the big one. The one that changes the game. The one that is deliberate. The lie that sets the stage for everything that comes after it. Once the lie is told, it's what most people believe to be true. The first lie has to be the strongest. The most important. The one that has to be told. Whoa. That is really interesting. Yeah. That's just, like, that's such a fascinating. Yeah. So much of this book touched on, like, very, like, sociological things. Like, for my associate's degree, my, like, specialty, my specialization was in sociology. So I spent, like, the whole book just, like, this is fascinating. Thinking of how people are thinking, and, like, the interpersonal relationships, and all this stuff. Like, I was eating it up. It just, like, itched that little part of your head. You're like, ooh, yes. I want to know. This concept, specifically, I think is what brought me back to The Gallagher Girls so often when I was reading it, because, like, they literally are taking, like, a covert operations class, like I said earlier, and they're, like, learning how to, like, run cons, and to trail people, and to do this and that. And I swear it is, like, one of the things they talk about, you know, and that, like, when you're setting your cover, and, like, you're establishing your conversation, like, it's those first things that matter. And it's, like, you have to make it big enough that it's not too big, but it's, like, it's not too small. You know, like, all those things you hear about. How does that work? Right. Like, it's, like, a very Goldilocks, like, it can't be too big. It can't be too small. Yeah. It has to be, like, just right. Right. It has to be delivered at the right time, but it is that first lie that matters, because then everything else has to fall off of that. Yeah. Like, that has to be good and make sense. And that's, like, I think that brought me back to, like, that world as well. Yeah. It was just, like, fascinating, too, to then kind of take a step back and think about, like, the shadiness from Ryan and the things that he knew and was covering up. And, like, I kind of liked messing with the idea of, like, what were his first lies? Like, what was his setup? You know what I just thought of? This First Lie Wins concept. Do you know what it makes me think of? Oh, God. Quinn's bits. Yeah. Honestly. My boyfriend, Quinn, he does bits all the time. Yeah. Like, he just, like, makes stuff up all the time. And he's so good at it. And he's so good at it. Like, so believable. And it's because of this concept, though. Yeah. Like, I'm realizing that this is why it's so effective, because he'll literally just come out of left field with something off the wall that is just extreme enough. But not so off the wall. Yeah, it's extreme enough that you're like, what? But it's, like, believable enough. Also, usually about something that you don't necessarily want to question him on. Like, well, like, he and his brother being twins. Like, he always pulls that one out. Because he's like, oh, yeah, like, we're twins. And I'm not going to be like, no, you're not. Right. Like, no one's going to, like, be like, no, you're not twins. Yeah. Because they could be. They look a lot alike. And they have the same face. They have the same voice. Yeah. It's very much believable. I think, but I think Evie talks about that a little bit in here, too. She's like, you kind of have to make it something they don't want to pry into. Yeah. Like, when she's, like, telling the girls, like, her backstory and stuff. She's like, yeah, make it believable enough that they don't want to ask. And, like, I think that's what he does. And that's why she brings up, like, her parents' death and stuff. Because she knows, like, that's just going to stop their questioning. Because no one wants to question it and be like, oh, how did your parents die? Right. Like, you want to hear every detail about it. Right. But I think that's why his go on for so long. Because he does his classic, which I'm not going to say, because if anybody, I feel like I don't want to ruin his bit. Oh, yeah. For anybody listening. And he pulled it on one of my friends at my exams last week. Oh, God. And said friend, Madison, if you're listening, shout out to you. She started asking questions. Like, the girl did not have a boundary. She was asking questions. And so he felt like it was getting too deep that he backed out. He was like, OK, well, it's a bit. It's the first I've ever heard of someone backing out of it. Yeah. Because she was asking all these questions. She was, like, deep in the lore. And he was like, we've gotten too deep into the lore. I need to stop now. He's like, I'm actually lying. Yeah. Whoa. But I was like, man, no one has been brave enough or just baldy enough to just sit there and to ask questions of the story and the bit. And it got him a little bit, I think. He was just like. Wow. Quinn got got. Yeah. He got got. That's so funny. Well, go Madison. Literally. Being the first one to really, really question him enough to make him step back a little bit. I thought it was so funny. That is so funny. I love it. But that's it. I just thought of that. That's what this theory is. Yeah. It's like your first one is like. Totally. That's a really good example. Deliberate big one. And then everything else just falls into place after it. Yeah. Shall we maybe mention the Storygraph since we talked about it last time? Yeah. That would be really fun. So if you're not familiar with Storygraph, it is the kind of new alternative to Goodreads. So it is independently owned by a. Two black women. By two black women. It is not owned by Amazon. And it's really cool because as the name suggests, it gives you graphs of all of the data that like it records. So basically we just like put in what book you're reading. If you're a new user, I'm just going to give you the forewarning now. If you want your media graph to be accurate, you need to make sure you're changing the edition of the book that you're reading. Like if you alternate between like page books and audio books, you need to pick your edition so that your little chart will tell you how many audio you have versus digital. All of your Kindle e-readers versus paper. But sad fact that someone brought to my attention was your audio books don't count towards your page goal, which I think is lame. Storygraph, if you're listening, can we like edit that? Yeah. Can that be an update? Because I do. I like a nice little mix. But my goal this year is pages, not books. Right. Yeah. So the audio books are really killing me on that goal as well. But the other fun thing about Storygraph is when you do your reviews, they have little like pre-informed questions at the bottom. And then when you submit them, they tell you like what percentage of people voted. So the first one is, was the book plot or character driven? I'm going to pull up my review because I don't know what I said. I never actually answer these questions. So last episode when you brought them up was the first time I had actually thought about them ever for a book I read. I still haven't technically answered them for this book. I haven't either. But I think I have to go with a mix on this one. And that's the first time that I feel really strongly compelled to answer mix. I said plot. I think I felt like we weren't necessarily getting character development so much as we were seeing like the cons unfold and like the big plans unfold. And that felt very plot heavy to me. I would say mix. I feel like there are things that were character driven, but there was also a lot that was plot. And I don't know that I could say that it's one or the other. So yeah, I would say mix. 51% of people agree with you. 34% of people think it's plot driven. And 13%, which I think is kind of an unusually high odd man out, say it was character driven. Can we just take a quick step back? Because I do think it's helpful to provide the definition for what these things are. Because I realized after our last episode that was a thing that I was like, I don't know that people necessarily know. That's fair. So in a plot driven story, according to selfpublishingschool.com, the focus is more on the things that a character deals with, while in a character driven story, it focuses on why the character deals with those things in the way they do. Oh, that is interesting. I guess that makes sense. And that reinforces for me, my answer that it was a mix. Yeah. Because I think following Evie, she is responding to things as much as she is putting things into motion. Yeah, I agree with that. For sure. The next question is, was there strong character development? Yes, no, or it's complicated. I said it's complicated. I didn't really feel like anybody, no one dramatically made a 180. No one was like, becoming a better person. But I also think that like, in a way, Evie freeing herself from Mr. Smith was like, in some way, like, developing who she was. And then like, I don't know, we get her losing the desire to be Luca. But like, at the end, I'm like, did we actually get that? Or she already made that decision before this book started? You know what I mean? But I said it's complicated. I think I'm gonna go with no. I agree with a lot of what you just said. I feel like Evie at the start of the book, for the most part, is the same, like, person who she is at the end of the book. Yeah. I mean, she goes back to the same job. Yeah. Yeah, I would say it's complicated as well. I think, yeah, like, you don't see a ton, like, Ryan is still Ryan. He's vibing, hanging out. I think the maybe the only thing would be the growth and maybe trust between Evie and Ryan. Yeah. So there could be, like, that kind of development in their relationship and, like, learning that they can trust each other even though the kind of baseline of what they do for work is not solely based, I mean, it is in trust, but it's also that, like, they can't really trust anybody. Yeah. So kind of maybe that would be a development. But overall, like, Evie is still Evie. Yeah. And, like, we didn't really get a ton on the other characters. Like, Rachel was just kind of, you know, steady throughout. So, yeah, I would say it's complicated as well. Was there a diverse cast of characters? No. No. Yeah, it's complicated. Yeah, I said no. I thought this was, like, this is, like, very straightforward. Like, I mean, yeah, we had both men and women, but I feel like that's not diverse. Like, and we didn't get, like, there wasn't, like, a ton of, like, descriptors of people. Yeah. It was just, like, I mean, I guess we got, like, a decent number of, like, varying, like, upper and lower class type of scenario. Different ages of people. Ages and different, like, economic statuses of people, I guess. Yeah. But it is based in the South, which would just lead me to believe it's probably not that diverse. And then are the flaws of characters a main focus? Yes or no. It's complicated. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. I'm going to go back to the diverse cast of characters. 59% of people said no. So the majority but not a small majority. The audio book person who read it, they also were a little bit confused. Yeah. So maybe they would think it's complicated. We also didn't mention it, but strong character development. 49% of people said yes, there was strong character development. That is interesting. Do people know what character development is? You know, that's a, should we field that question? We should put that on Reddit and see if somebody answers very much. I'm curious in that one person what they have to say. Yeah, I agree. Okay. So flaws of characters a main focus. Yes, no, or it's complicated. I said it's complicated. I'm going to go yes, because I think the flaws are what primarily, like, Mr. Smith was exploiting, was like, he kept trying to get, like, what is Evie going to miss? What is she not going to connect? All of those things, or like, what is she like? He understood her emotional triggers with like her mom and like that background and like kept trying to kind of exploit those. Well, and just like her original identity. Yeah. Like being able to exploit that and kind of bring in a fake version of her and be like, you are easily replaceable. Yeah. Was like kind of a punch to the gut or was trying to be, I don't know. I would say it's complicated as well. I think. Yeah, I think like your point is valid. But at the same time, I also feel like Evie wanting to be able to return to her initial life, like prior to crime, isn't necessarily her flaw. No, no. So much as just like her insecure, like, you know, like her desire. And I feel like to me, it was very like, especially once you get to the end and you like see everything happening as like part of their main plan. The whole plot is like them breaking away from Mr. Smith. And so like that isn't necessarily founded on their flaws. Yeah. So much as, I mean, I guess you could argue it's maybe founded because of their flaws. Like they got into this scenario because of their patience for crime. And that's kind of what I meant. It was like the flaws and like what they were missing. Yeah. Yeah. So I said it's complicated. But. I see both. Yes. And it's complicated. I don't think, no, I wouldn't say no. 24% of people said no. I know. I'm shocked by that, actually. 52% of people said yes. No, like 21% said it's complicated. I do love these little graphs. Yeah. They are fun to talk about. I would like to point out, though, that I'm double checking my math because of the math incident of the last episode. I don't want to talk about it. 45 and 52 is not 100%. So there's a missing 3%. It's probably because me and Eileen don't ever do the graphs. Right. Fair. I wonder if they're doing it based off of total read, like when people mark it as read, but then they don't do the graph. I wonder if the percentages are still in there. I feel like they have to be for how few of these get to 100%. Yeah. I bet that's it. Which then surprises me with how many people answer the question. Yeah. Never have. I know. I've never answered them. Sorry. I don't know. I'm really bad at doing like the reviews. I've never been a big review girly. I don't like to write them out, but like, I think the questions are fun and they're like, not hard, you know, and they're like, yeah. Maybe I'll start doing a little bit. I think for them. Yeah. Maybe you've inspired me. Maybe I'll start doing them. I definitely won't do it. I love answering them on the show. I'm going to be honest. I'm just not going to do it. Good for you. Stick with it. You know, stand your ground. All right, ladies. I'm feeling a chocolate-covered apple. Yeah. I'm feeling, I've got to be honest. I've been thinking about the tacos for the past 40 minutes. Let's get some food. Special thanks for this episode. This is our friend, Jessica. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye.