John.Walker

The transcription is a conversation between two people. They discuss the setting of the interview and the speaker's background in poetry and criminology. They also talk about the therapeutic effects of poetry and music on dementia patients. The speaker shares their accidental journey into criminology and their work on the economics of crime. They mention a paper they wrote on poverty and crime in Australia. The conversation ends with the speaker discussing their apprenticeship at the Institute of Criminology and their unique niche in the field. So, you're the star here, you're in front of the microphone, should I be speaking that way or can we turn it round? It would be better if you sat there, so I can make some eye contact, OK, now that makes a lot more sense. Thanks. Right, fire away. OK, so John, welcome back. This is part two. We originally did our first interview with you at Lauriton Services Club a couple of weeks ago, and that was a bit of fun. Yes. And today we're in the studio at the Mid North Coast Community College, standing here in, wherever we're at, here in the Albert Circuit. And I've brought you back so we can get a little bit more about you, and also talk a little bit about your background. Be careful what you wish for. Yes, OK. And I must say, the group that you sort of organise on a regular basis, is quite a large group of people. So, we've got a lot of people here, and we've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. We've got a lot of people who are interested in what you're doing. poet amongst us. One of our favourite poets, he's 96. He writes Bush poetry because he lived Bush poetry for 80-odd years until he had to move into the urban area in his retirement. We've got a wide range of people and occupations and experiences there. A lot of them ripe from experience. You heard Marjorie talking about her grey nomad stuff, the fruit picking, all that sort of stuff. It gives us an excuse to reminisce, doesn't it? I'm going to quote Duke Ellington because reminiscing in rhyme is one of his later pieces of music. Reminiscing in tempo, that's the Duke Ellington that brings to mind. I was reading some articles this morning about the impact on brain activity, the impact of poetry and listening to poetry and speaking poetry on brain activity. It's fascinating how it impacts on a whole range of areas in the brain but a lot to do with memory, a lot to do with words, rhyming, tempo, all those things. It's brilliant therapy for dementia patients, same with music from their day. I've seen documentaries where you can see that it's bringing them back to life. It's so true. It's interesting, the article I read this morning looked at poetry and music. A lot of research has been done on music, particularly in dementia patients. This was also about poetry. I thought to myself, this is... Of course, a lot of it is to do with the rhyme and tempo of the words and the rhyming. It was just an article I happened to be reading. Yes, I need to get a life, but I thought it was important to understand or at least seek to understand the background. I suppose that leads me on to my next question to you, which is not poetry-related but probably a little bit about when I spoke to you last time. You gave us a little bit about your background, but I'd like to go into maybe a little bit more detail today if you're happy to do that. We were talking earlier on about you've trained as an economist and then graduated in terms of opportunities into a criminologist. Well, I sort of fell into criminology by accident. Serendipity is my favourite word and it's been a hallmark over and over and over again in my career. I didn't know that economists never studied crime, the economics of crime. I mean, why do the bad guys do it? And I didn't know that criminologists didn't study the economics of crime either because they could never get the data. I just happened to fall into a period when people were starting to think about how do we get information on victimisation. And then you can ask people, well, how much did it cost you and how much did the bad guys get? And you can ask the same questions of individual victims as you can for corporate victims. And so, of course, that's where a lot of the big money is, big money fraud. So, you know, quite by accident I found that I'd been asking the right questions and then once we got some answers I could put this together in economic models which were not familiar to criminologists but they soon latched onto it. Yes, I think you talked about a very important paper that you were part of putting together and wrote regarding poverty and crime in Australia. That's a few years ago now. I didn't even know that was criminology. I was working in the Melbourne Metropolitan Planning Authority. They didn't know what to do with me so they let me do what I thought might be interesting and I got some figures from the police and I did a report on how the metropolitan area is shaped by the different trends in crime and the different levels in society and so on. And they launched this report at a big public hearing and eventually the Institute of Criminology got to hear about this and it was several years later that they offered me a job. That was the funniest interview I've ever had. They were convincing me that I was a criminologist and I was applying for a job that I thought I didn't know anything about. Anyway, I was there for 15 years and it was a brilliant apprenticeship because literally I started off with, well, I've still got no qualifications in criminology but when you're doing the data bashing for sociologists, criminologists, psychologists, all of those psychologists that work for the Institute of Criminology, you know, it was the best apprenticeship ever. I picked up stuff from all of these guys and as we were talking about just then I eventually discovered that my niche, which was unique, was that none of them were economists and here I was, piggy in the middle. So a very good place to be in this particular situation. Nobody will ever regret working in criminology because it's not an industry that's going to go away. And I suppose, in my mind, I see, sort of what we were having a discussion earlier on, you talked about data, the use of data and patterns and I see a lot of work very similar to that in poetry about patterns of poetry in a really broad sense, the rhyming, the timing and some of the other things. I'd be interested in your thoughts. As a number cruncher, I'm looking for patterns, exactly, but I've always enjoyed playing with words. I mean, in my professional capacity, I've had to write reports and you don't necessarily want to put them into rhyme. You want to make your report as readable and understandable and educational as you possibly can. So you've got to pick your words carefully and I've always, I said, had an interest in playing with words. I guess, as a school kid, limericks were the poetry of the playground and I used to quite enjoy those. I can still remember a few of them but they may not be suitable for this occasion. I never had a real interest in proper poetry but then I did see Pam Ayres appear in what must have been Britain's Got Talent or something like that and after a series of No Hopers on came this young woman, she must have been in her twenties or something like that, and she just stood there and recited her poems and she had us all in stitches and I like to amuse. Noel Coward was the guy who said he had a talent to amuse and it's one I've always been jealous of. I was always the one who had to write the silly verses for the farewell card or the birthday card or something like that. So, you know, from small beginnings I suppose. And obviously earlier in the podcast, in our previous interview, you shared a poem you wrote a little while ago that actually was a reflection of your childhood, The Lion and the Gaslamp. Oh yes. So, it's interesting. Did you start writing poetry early? Do you remember? No, absolutely not. In 1988 I was on a secondment to the British Home Office and our kids were 11 and 13 and we really were a bit scared to have them go to school in London and so we rented a place in Reading which is only about 25 miles, 40 km out west of London. It's just the other side of Heathrow. And, in theory, I could get to work in an hour and a quarter on a bus. Now, that particular bus, due to traffic on the M4, on average took two and a half hours to do a one and a quarter hour trip. On one occasion it actually took four hours and I'm pretty sure I could have jogged there in four hours. But, getting used to this, I'd take a pad and a pen and scribble things. And it occurred to me one day that, 1988, Australia was celebrating the 200th anniversary of the successful seaborne invasion by the Brits. The Brits were also celebrating that, but they were also celebrating the 400th anniversary of the unsuccessful seaborne invasion of Britain by the Spanish Armada. And, for some sneaky reason, the back of my mind says, I wonder what it'd look like now if the results went the other way. Well, I overlooked the fact that I might have been speaking Spanish for a start. But, what would happen at this end, at the Australian end, if somehow the British Armada had been sent packing? So, over the next few trips, or few weeks it might have been, I rewrote Australian history in 1788, where the Brits were repelled from, they built their Sydney town, but the indigenous people only had one weapon, really, that they could use to get rid of these invaders. And that was fire. And they realised that every New Year's Eve, the Brits would actually get sloshed. And what a plaster. And, you know, there's the golden opportunities. Sydney town was mostly built of wood, timber, all it took was a good timing and a bonfire. So, this, in my version of Australian history, is why Australia and Britain play for the ashes. But it's the ashes of old Sydney town that they play for. That's my version of history. But it turned into, I'm not sure how many verses there are. There are something like 20 verses in it, so if you've got an awful long time to spare... Why don't we, can we do maybe a few verses from it, and then anybody who'd like to get the full version can give you a call and purchase your book. Where do I find it? Here we go. Now, the title of the poem is Gert Bysey Dreaming. And the first few verses are about our forefathers, whose names you'll discover soon. So, in the beginning, our forefathers. The story starts in London town in 1782. Sir Humphrey said, now listen chaps, I've got great news for you. A wide brown land has just been found, right on the antipodes. And your task is to fill it up with British. Loads and loads. Well the four who heard Sir Humphrey were the finest in the land. And they listened with intent at all the things that Whitehall planned. Then they loaded up the ships to make the journey across the seas. With sheep and wheat and cricket balls and limes and frozen peas. This noble task is up to you, the nation bids you well, Sir Humphrey said. Although he knew the journey would be hell. 200 years from now, he said, your names will be quite famous. Arthur, Philip, James the Cook, and not forgetting Seamus. And you men here will soon become the fathers of a nation. A task I know you'll do without a moment's hesitation. The four men grinned a bit at this anticipated glory. Until they got to realise it wasn't all the story. To help you in this worthy quest, the courts have been so bold as to chain a hundred convicts of each sex down in the hold. Your job will be to sail the ships down into Botany Bay. And then to set the convicts free and help them on their way. For their downcast eyes betrayed the fact they thought this was remiss. They smiled again, however, when Sir Humphrey added this. And just in case you fear this master plans a little grab, the kings agreed to grant you all the land that you can grab. So off they sailed and some time later reached the promised land. As they entered Sydney Cove, all wasn't how they'd planned. Instead of just a vacant lot with fine deserted harbours, they found the locals gathered, tossing shrimps upon their barbies. And then there's a chorus, would you like, I'll have to sing the chorus. Girt by sea and all let us rejoice, for we are young and free. With gold and soil and wealth for toil, our land is Girt by Sea. Yes, well, sorry you asked now, aren't you? Well, the poem goes on to discover that one of the locals, a young guy, is pretty smart. He gets himself apprenticed to the local blacksmith in Sydney. So he learns a lot, the technology and how to use iron ore and steel and make stuff. And yes, they learn that the Brits all get plastered on New Year's Eve and they set fire to the place. So the next 200 years effectively are the indigenous population's industrial revolution. Of course, this young guy had actually stolen the blacksmith. And a few survivors eventually, of course, intermarried and some sort of light-skinned kids started to appear in the population. Although they never got the vote until 1966, of course. That's so true. And it's interesting, poetry for me, and it's also interesting too, some of the poetry of the weekend. Poetry is a whole range of issues, let me rephrase that. Poetry is a way of expressing things in a way that can be quite to the point. Yes. It's a way of generating ideas. Or you can beat around the bush and get to the point. That's it, yes. Probably a bit like me, isn't it? So John, you've written three books and you've got a couple here with you today. Tell me about the two books of poetry you have here today. Well, by 2014, I think, I had put together... The first thing is I joined Quimby and Bush Poets. And they were incredibly supportive and egged me on, literally. So they used to meet once a month and I would write something new each month. It was just a really good prompt. So by 2014, I'd got 50, 60, 70 poems that I thought were publishable, a decent standard at least. They were a great audience, the Quimby and Bush Poets. So I knew which ones worked and which ones didn't. Very good fields, people. So at that stage, I met a friend that is a musician. He worked in Parliament House and he'd written a book on the history of the guitar in Australia. And it's Chris Johnson, his name. And he showed me... I'd bought a copy of his book. And he... I looked at this book, it's very well published. I said, you know, how do you go about publishing? And he says, oh, well, I approached these guys in Canberra, local publishers. And we went from there. It's published on demand. So you don't have the, you know, 50,000 copies of your book clogging up the garage. And so he introduced me to them and I showed them, you know, the potential manuscript I'd got. And we went from there. So it's, you know, I had to pay for them to do it. It was never going to be a money-making enterprise. But it's surprising how many people you've got in the family who you need to find a birthday present for or a Christmas present for. So it's gone around the world a little bit. And the title, I couldn't resist it. You know, Doggerall is, well, bad poetry, right? And I thought, well, hopefully, you know, it's a bit better than Doggerall. And then my mind went back to Henry Lawson and the Loaded Dog. When we first arrived in Australia in 1973, you know, we tried to get acculturized. Is that the right word? Acculturated? Whatever. And the Loaded Dog story, I thought that was fantastic. And it dawned on me, what a great title for a book, the Loaded Doggerall. You know, it's poetry with sometimes a few hidden meanings, loaded with hidden meanings. And I looked around and nobody else had done it. How could that obvious title be overlooked? It's mine. And so, yes, that was... And my second book was imaginatively entitled The Loaded Doggerall 2. Yeah. That's a bit of thought. Well, you can see the chain of thought, can't you? And they've both got about 70 poems in. And with a bit of luck, there's something in there for everybody. Just with your poems and your poetry, tell me your first time you had to read a poem. What was that like? Oh! I've got it here. Oh, good. I went to... I went to the Queen's Bush Poets the first time. I didn't know any of them, I just knew where they met and when they met. And I took with me this poem and it's called The L-Plated Poet. And I took one of those L-plates with a P on the back, hoping, you know... So, I read this. Is Doggerall in the ear of the beholder? And is poetry a better kind of verse? Are television jingles just like Shakespeare or a sign that modern culture's getting worse? Am I only wasting time composing rubbish or will real poets recognise my worth? Will they hang on every word as I recite it or just roll around in unconcealed mirth? I stand before you now, a trembling mortal, on judgement day. Which way the verdict goes? Is poetry an art I can aspire to? Or should I really leave it to the pros? They gave me my P-plates. Ah, well done. Justly deserved. Justly deserved. And you have a whole range of different types of poems. Obviously, there's a couple that you read yesterday which are quite informative. One about a dog, but we won't go there today. That's a sad story. So, have you got a couple of poems you'd like to read for us today? I can... Would you like a criminology-flavoured poem? I wonder if I can find it. Find the one I want. And by the way, the timing was perfect because my wife's doing Tai Chi from 9.30 until 10.30. She's got a book to read. She won't want to be doing that all over too long. How about this... Oh, yeah, look. You know what a mondegreen is, of course. You've heard the story of Lady Mondegreen? No, I haven't. Oh. Hang on. This is a criminology story. But it's also based on... Um... Lady Mondegreen comes from a 17th-century ballad, The Bonny Earl of Moray, or Moray. And the words in... They have slain the Earl of Moray and Lady Mondegreen and laid him on the green becomes Lady Mondegreen. OK. OK, yeah. Yes. So we've got the Earl of Moray and Lady Mondegreen. Now, I am speaking as a detective, looking back on my life, alright? So this is the strange case of Lady Mondegreen. You know, when detectives look back on their life and remember the good and the bad, it's the strange cases that come straight to mind, more so than the great times we had. And one in particular still drives me mad and continues to this very day. It concerned a rich lady, murdered and most foul, whose body was taken away. I was called to the castle, in Scotland it was, just an hour or two after dawn. The caller said clearly two deaths had occurred and the body still lay on the lawn. The Earl of Moray, he said, had been slain along with his wife Mondegreen. But while the Earl's body lay still on the lawn, the lady's nowhere to be seen. I quickly assembled a homicide team to examine the scene of the strife. I assigned my DI to the Earl's sad demise while I focused on that of his wife. The case of the Earl was quite quickly resolved and the suspect was taken away. So I interviewed right to the very last man, the witnesses there on the day. Well, stone walls are not rare in these old Scottish lands but this was a very strange case. No witness came forward anything like a description of what had took place. No one recalled how it happened, they couldn't remember a thing. Though I talked to them all, from the scullery maid all the way up to the King. They lied, they dissembled, it was clear as a bell that they weren't going to tell me the truth, how poor Lady Mondegreen came to her death right there in the fullness of youth. They denied even seeing her there on the lawn and couldn't remember her face. So I brought in detectives, forensics and dogs and they almost dismantled the place. But evidence never emerged from the site. We embarked on a different approach. A complete search of criminal records showed us a life led quite beyond reproach. I then called on the banks for assistance thinking we'd maybe trace her affairs. But as fitting her ladyship's status they were probably handled downstairs. So just to sum up this sad story, a double homicide case at the start turned into a strange missing persons case where ID theft played a part. It drove me to drink in frustration and I started to visit the bars in search, I would say, of new leads to the case but mainly to sink a few jars. Then one night by chance I went round for a drink at a pub called the Dollars and Dines where a poet was doing what all poets do and reciting some verses and rhymes. I seriously couldn't believe my own ears when his verses began to relate on the bonny young Earl of Moray the details of his terrible fate. But my interest was soon turned to anger as he glossed over all of the facts of our painstaking investigations and my team's commendable acts. So credits due where credits due and I reckon we deserve our share to find Lady Mondergreen the woman who wasn't there. Did you hear the one about the alligators? No, can we have the one about the alligators? We can have the one about the alligators, I think that's in this one. Yes, 79. It's called The Neighbours' Pets. How are we going? OK. Yeah, still good? Yeah, this is called The Neighbours' Pets. It's actually based very loosely on a true story and definitely not referring to a true story. It's a story about a man and a woman and definitely not referring to our real neighbours. Our neighbours are a weird lot. We don't see them for weeks but their Lamborghini's often parked outside. They're very quiet, never speak and if I met them in the street I wouldn't recognise them if I tried. They both wear big dark glasses so you never see their face but then one day they came around and asked us bold as brass if we'd feed their pets while they were out of town. No probs, we said. We'll happily look after them that week and they showed the place where all the food was kept. Feed first thing every morning but just leave the food outside the room in which they said their dear pets slept. They said pets could use their own pet door and would take their food straight back into their room and nothing else was needed. They'd be back in just a week. Well, just exactly what should we assume? They never told us dogs or cats or goldfish not a clue though the food they'd left was large amounts of meat but we honoured our agreement but on the Friday morning we forgot to do our job and we rectified this later in the day but when we went inside we knew at once from what we heard that something there was very much astray. We just heard high-pitched giggling like a pair of silly kids we assumed there'd been a break-in at the place and amazed at what we saw two alligators laughing and completely off their face. It seems our neighbour's house was now a nursery of sorts and a large amount of cannabis was there and these two creatures, guard dog-like were there to watch the crops but late breakfast was much more than they could bear they'd feasted on the cannabis instead and found it good the more they ate, the more that they enjoyed but when we called the cops to see the things that we had found these alligators soon were unemployed their owners soon were rounded up and charges laid in court for cultivating pot and feral pets but strictly speaking now and I must hereby emphasise there are no more than allegations yet. Oh dear. Would you like to do one last one? One last one? Would you like another criminology one? A criminal one is good because we're different listeners we're getting a different view. Did I do Great Grandad's feet last time? No, you tried to do it here didn't you? We need to do that here. Okay. Well of course having migrated from England most of my relatives all of my relatives live over there and so I had to invent some local relatives and invent the history that went with them and some elements here are true but you probably won't recognise them anyway it's called Great Grandad's feet and feet is spelt F-E-A-T Great Grandad was my hero and the whole town knew his name he captained Queen Bee and Rugby the mighty whites of old and his bat would outdo Bradman's if the cricket truth were told at tennis he was brilliant won at Wimbledon and Koo Yong or so Great Grandma used to say and she was never wrong but of all the stories she would tell that mighty feat, 200 miles has never been repeated and if it was it's doubtful that his time could be defeated Great Grandma said he did it in a bit over two days and this was years before today's long distance swimming craze you'd have to wonder whether he'd have won Olympic gold if he'd had a distance swimming race back in those days of old so when the Queen Bee and Council opened up their Hall of Fame the family made it known that we were keen to add his name of course they can't rely on what Great Grandma said and anyway for 40 years our Great Grandma's been dead we had to search the archives for some mention of the swim before they would consider our request to honour him we guessed for this heroic swim that he was in his prime so we focused first of all on news reported at the time he died in 1956 at the age of 73 so we looked through every Queen Bee and Age from the turn of the century from time to time we'd find somewhere a reference to him in rugby, cricket, tennis but no mention of a swim seemed so strange, Great Grandma wouldn't make this story up she told it many, many times when I was just a pup we asked for help the archivist agreed to help us look and she exclaimed Eureka! when she found it in a book well it seems Great Grandma might have been creative with the truth because Great Grandad couldn't even swim back then in his youth the age report that finally revealed Great Grandad's fate was about the Queen Bee and River floods in 1958 two years after he had died God rest him R.I.P the floods had come and washed away the Queen Bee and Cemetery Great Grandad had indeed arrived on far off Albury's beach just over two days later as Great Grandma used to teach that explains the Mona Lisa smile she always had when telling me this story when I was just a lad well Great Grandad's still my hero because kids need to be inspired and true or false the story of the swim I never tired little boys need heroes to look up to as they grow but it was she who gave me one all those years ago the flood the Queen Bee and Cemetery was washed away in 1958 my real Great Grandad was I think you heard the one about did you hear the one about the trophies in the back room anyway he was a runner archer yeah I think so I know you've got to get going very soon I'm happy to come back how long have you been in Port Macquarie we arrived in January 2019 so we brought with us first of all the drought then I think what came next a flood or was it COVID and then another flood oh no the fires drought then fires then COVID then flood I think our unfortunate influence seems to be wearing off now so what brought you to Port Macquarie our son long ago left home and got married his family now live in Hawkesbury in a place called Glosodia which from Queanbeyan was about 3 hours drive comfortable easy visit and our daughter was even easier because she lived 5 minutes walk away in Queanbeyan with her husband and other grandson our son has 2 boys but the youngest of our grandkids is Natalie's son 5 minutes walk away so of course grandparents we did our duty and all the usual things that grandparents do and then it was the 3rd week of May in 2018 on the Wednesday one of our cats died on the Thursday mother in law died she was living in a granny flat with us on the Friday one of our speedway rider friends died a week after that we took our little jazz band to the Marimbula Jazz Festival and we died we were terrible and a week after that our daughter says Jono's got a job in Brisbane we're moving up to the Sunshine Coast well sea change time I was I was ready to retire but all I really most of my work is done from home anyway I just need to be able to get to places for a meeting from time to time so we first looked at Wollongong or Newcastle because you can easily get to Sydney and fly anywhere around the world but they were too expensive and a state agent in Canberra said have you ever looked at Lauriton and we said we've never heard of Lauriton but she explained where it was and we cashed in some frequent fly points next day and we came up here now I don't want to be rude to Lauriton residents but we felt really really young but when we were checking out houses in Bonnie Hills the strangest thing happened a couple of school kids walked by and they said hello school kids this is promising and we found a nice house walking distance from the beach which had been my wife's ambition she always wanted to live near the beach and here we were halfway between our son in the Hawkesbury and our daughter in Queensland and that was wonderful until 18 months later our daughter said we're moving back to Canberra so now we are the northern outpost but fortunately the beach is still there we've created a bit of a community around ourselves with poetry and I'm now doing weekly jazz broadcasts on 2AFM you're stuck with us by the looks of it and let me just say at this point thank you very much for the great support you've provided in helping me talk to a number of local poets and storytellers the assistance has been invaluable and I'm looking forward to producing I've set myself a target to record at least 100 poems and I think you've probably done 8 or 9 or so and if I could get at least 10 then that doesn't mean we stop you've got a good start you've got to have Walter so I think I've suggested perhaps you phone I'm happy to pick him up what's the best way you know there's a big on Hastings River Drive there's a big indoor sports centre he lives at the back of that so he's not going to be hard to I'd probably rather trip on trying to well 9th Thursday on a Monday we've just come up in one car and Karen said she'd read a book until I went back and picked her up she's at Westport so it's not that far out the way