Follow the Advice ep6 - Jo Wood

In this episode of the podcast "Follow the Advice," David Brown interviews Jo Wood, an expert in employee benefits. Jo explains that employee benefits are aimed at keeping employees healthy and happy, providing services such as mental health support and assistance with work-related injuries. She emphasizes the importance of employee benefits, especially for small businesses, as it ensures the continuity of work and avoids long waiting times in the NHS. Jo also discusses her passion for her work and the satisfaction she gets from making a difference in her clients' lives. She shares stories about going above and beyond for her clients and building long-term relationships with them. Jo also mentions her experience working in both the broking and insurer sides of the industry, which gives her unique insights into insurance premiums and the reasons behind price increases. Welcome back to another episode of Follow the Advice. I'm David Brown. In this episode of the podcast I'll be talking to Jo Wood. Jo has been in the employee benefits sector since 1988, which she tells me she finds hard to believe, especially as she's only 21 years old. Jo has worked both as a broker and for insurers, so that gives a great understanding of how the two fit together and it's her mission to position herself the best she possibly can to do the best for her clients. You're going to hear more about that in this episode. In her spare time Jo is a dog behaviourist and there's a fascinating conversation to follow about what that is and about some of the work she's done in that field. And she's also a veteran of local radio. I really hope you enjoy listening to Jo this episode of Cracker. So Jo, welcome to the podcast. It's fantastic to have you here. Thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for asking me. I'm very flattered. Yeah, you're very welcome. So I want to start with employee benefits because that's what you do. You're a specialist in that field. Now, most people probably know what car insurance and home insurance are all about, but maybe not everyone knows what employee benefits is all about. So do you mind just sharing that with me to start with? Yeah, definitely. It's really a case of getting your staff back to work complete if someone's going to be off ill and also making sure that when they are at work they're healthy and happy. So it might be anything from an employee assistance programme, which would give them access to mental health practitioners if they need it, either over the phone or face to face. And that's all done obviously confidentially away from the employer. Or it might be to make sure that your best risk layer can still do his job if he damages his shoulder, that type of thing. It's getting people back into the workplace, making money for the company. So it's always useful, particularly if you've got a small business. People might think they don't need the employee benefits, but they're probably the ones that need it most. Because if you've only got yourself and maybe one other person, if either one of you goes off ill, that's how the workforce is done. And with the NHS the way it is at the minute, people can be waiting a long, long time. So you don't want that situation. At the moment, the queue for NHS surgery is about 7 million plus. So that's a heck of a lot of people ahead of you in the queue. Yeah, absolutely. And so it sounds like maybe only if your factory burns down or is flooded, right, there's probably not much else more important to protect than your people. Yeah, that's it. I always say that the workforce really is the number one asset. That's the most important thing. And even if you do work for yourself, especially if you're ill, you can't bring any money into the household, never mind the company. So getting yourself back to work is always a good thing. It's important. And it's quite a... The beauty of the PMI market nowadays, private medical insurance, sorry, you have to take these initials as well, sorry about that, is that the policies are also modular nowadays. So you can have a very minimal cover right up to the role of voice if you like. You can choose what you want to fit your budget. Okay, so it gives real flexibility of choice. Yeah, definitely. Okay, cool. And you've been doing this for a long time, although you did tell me you've only been in the industry a couple of years because you're only 21. I wish, yeah, I wish. No, I've been in the industry for about two years now, which I can't believe. And as we were saying prior to the discussion that no one ever goes along to a career fair. So if I want to be an insurance broker, it sounds really exciting because it doesn't sound exciting. But all I can say is it is. I love it. I love the challenge of getting the best deal for my clients. So it is, I think it's a vast industry. There's so many different areas of insurance you can get in, so it's definitely well worth pursuing. Yeah, what else is good about it, Jo? I think, I mean, it's quite a small investment industry, the PMI sector, definitely. You tend to see the same people, but you can build some really nice relationships with other brokers and with your clients as well. It's quite heavily competitive, I suppose, for insurance or businesses like that, really. I just like the fact that you can make a difference. You know, if you get a client who's got something, suddenly something pops up, they find a lump or something serious like that, and the fact that you can get them back to being well with the products that you've put in place, it can make a big difference. I really value my clients. I really care about them. And I mean, to give you an example of probably how I care a little bit too much, in fact, I had a client quite a long time ago now, who made a call to me and said, could his son have surgery? Because he had one of the best words, rambled lesson. And he's only a teenager, and it was obviously quite a big deal to him, really. But unfortunately, that type of thing isn't covered, because it's not serious. It's not life-threatening. It's cosmetic, really. But one night, a couple of evenings later, and I was looking through TV listings, and there was a programme, My Man Wants to Meet Me, about another teenager in exactly the same situation. And this was a Saturday evening, but I was like, right, let's find this number, get in touch with him, let him know that this programme's on. And I think that little bit of a personal touch can make quite a difference, you know, where you care about your clients, you know, to tell them about stuff like that. Just little things, really, that they feel they're part of your family, in a way. You know, that it's important to make things right for them. And so I really value my clients, and thankfully, a lot of my clients value me. You know, I get some nice feedback, which is good. Yeah, and I've met so many people in my career who, you know, like you just said, who go above and beyond what might be expected by the client. Yeah. And who care enough, like you said, you know, to deliver for people. And I just think that's fantastic. And it's not something our industry shouts about anywhere near enough. No, you're right. Yeah, people do. And it's, you know, I remember years ago, when I'm from Hull, and 2007, I think it was, there was a flooding in Hull, which really wiped out a heck of a lot of the area. And our managing director of the company that I was at then, you know, he was one of the ones out there. He was a ticking bucket of water away. But because his clients meant a lot to him, and that's a big thing, I think, it's important that you care. If you want to get what's right for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're right. And so I know, I know you're, you're big on long term relationships. And what you just described, you know, would foster that kind of long term relationship. So without giving any names away, tell me, I guess, tell me about some of your longest standing clients, Jo, and how you've worked with them over the years. I've got a client who are currently going through a bit of a tough time with the industry that they're in. And I've probably covered them since about 2005, something like that, on and off, because obviously, I had a period of time where I left working and went to work for an insurer. But then they were pleased to come back to me once things were set back up again. I don't know, we're friends, we're friends on Facebook. I'm friends with a lot of my clients on Facebook, so they get to see the other side of me, really, which I think is a nice thing, because you start to get to know the personalities of the people, don't you? And it's just, I don't know, you just become attached to the families and such. I've got another client who sadly lost his wife and, you know, it's quite a big deal to be able to be there for him and help him with any claims issues or anything unrelated to the policy. And that's the part of me because I try to think if there's any long standing stories I can think of, I can't really. Sorry. No, that's okay. That's okay. A lot of the time you just take it for granted because you've known these people for such a long time. It's just like any other conversation with a friend, really. And someone once said to me, people don't necessarily remember what you said or did, but they remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And that lasts for a long time. And I think that's a really powerful thought. Yeah, I do. I think it's really important. And like I said, to be there for your clients, because in this industry, if someone's making a claim, they're obviously not well at that point, so they want all the support that they can get. And normally we wouldn't get too heavily involved in claims, but I'm more than happy to do that and speak to the claims department on their behalf, if need be, because it can be a bit of a minefield. People don't really know what to expect. And the other beauty in the industry as well is that nowadays, claiming's got a lot easier, because although the telephone lines might be busy, they can now most of the time do it by or online. So it's made things a lot less onerous, really. Yeah. So we can then do it on their behalf, if need be. That's good. Yeah, that's good. And you mentioned, Jo, before that you've worked both on the broking side and on the insurer side. So what insight does that give you, do you think, that maybe other people wouldn't have? I think it's really helpful for me, because if an insurance premium, for example, shoots right up, and the client might be up in arms wide upon us all this, but having worked on the insurer side, you can see the reasons for that. I had a client very recently, and the price did go up quite a lot, and the insurer were unwilling to move the car on that. But then looking into it, they had a 500% loss ratio. So they'd obviously paid out five times what the premium was for that client. So why would they have to put the price back down, because they need to try and recoup some of those losses? And I think it gives you a better understanding of that, and you don't feel so... You are being a true broker, because you're the person in the middle, and you've got to be friends with both sides and do your best for both sides, really. And I think it's given me a good insight into that. Plus, when I worked in insurance, it was very helpful having been a broker, because a lot of the brokers that I dealt with, they didn't mind. They sort of trusted me more than some of the maybe PDMs out there who'd just come into it from another retail position, and it was just a role. It's just a job for them. Whereas to me, it was more a career, and I cared about it. And so it's been very helpful to see both sides of the coin, really. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you set up your own business as well. So tell me about that, and tell me about the motivation behind doing that. Obviously, it wasn't a jump all the way and push, I would say. I did start working for a brokerage, because I worked as an insurer working at a cash plant, and did that for 17 years, in different roles, culminating in sales in that company. Then I moved into working, and went to work with one of my clients, who was a general insurance broker. I loved it, and grew the business massively, and really enjoyed every bit of that. But then they became part of a much, much bigger group, and I hated it, because it sounds awful and really cocky, but I went from being a fairly big fish in a small pond, so I couldn't be known in the North Sea, and hated the fact that it was all about the numbers for them, with no personal touch with the clients. It really didn't, you know, they didn't care. And the compliance was ridiculously heavy, which obviously, we know it is. But sometimes, I think it can be taken beyond where it needs to be, just, you know, for the company's sake, I understand. But it was just crazy. It got in the way of personal touch, really. Then, so then I ended up going working back to an insurance company, and doing private medical insurance with them. But then was offered a role to do life insurance as a broker. And I thought, yes, this sounds great. It's an opportunity, something new to learn. Got really into the life insurance, and the protection side, and COVID hit. It hit that point, and it was like, oh, nobody wants to buy this, because nobody knows it's going to be working next week. So it sort of went out of windows, but it wasn't the best success, that business. Got back into PMI with a lady who I knew, who was working for her. But sadly, she wasn't in a position to continue to pay me. But I thought, well, come on, I know I'm earning enough commission to pay myself, you know. So I've proved I can do it to myself. So let's just go through it now, then, which I did. And I loved it. And got my client, you know, some of my older clients back, got back into that. Really enjoyed every day of getting up and going to work, and the challenge of looking for new business. I love that. I really like that. Right, who's this then? Who's this company? Let's find out who's them, what's what, what goes on, and see what you can to get in with the client, and grow that relationship. So I just sort of went from there and really enjoyed it. And for now, I can't imagine not working for myself, really. It's good. I enjoy it a lot. Yeah. And all my guests on the podcast, Jo, are people like you who run their own business. And I put it in terms of people who keep the wheels of our industry turning, right? Because there are lots of big businesses, global organisations in our sector. But I think small independent businesses have got a really important part to play. Definitely. Yeah. And so that's why I love chatting to people like you. So what are the three best things about running your own business, Jo? I could be really cheeky now. Relying. It's a chance to rely on if you want one. Or a chance to finish early if you want one. So that's one of the best advantages to it, really. Being a master of your own destiny on the financial front, you can sort of think, right, I'm really going to go for it this month, because I could do that with a bit of extra money. And it's not all about the money at all. We know that. And the industry pays quite slowly, and quite sort of randomly. Some insurers will pay a lot more commission than others. And you obviously don't go chasing the money. You go for what's right for the client. So you can put a lot of effort in and then pay a lot less if you want to. But then, other months are very quiet. But I like that. I like the flexibility of being able to do it. I also just like being able to say, hey, it's my business. And I can do what I want. I enjoy the challenge of the marketing side of things, and being able to come up with innovative ideas of how to approach companies. But one of the things that I randomly do, I've got a little on my phone, I've got a little text template set up. And if I happen to spot a businessman, you know, a little one-man band, Bill Rivera, or whatever, with his mobile number on the back, I'll text him. You know, have you got about medical insurance? And it's literally, I just type in the word van, and there's that little template that goes out to him. And I've got business from that as well. It's a way of sort of finding business. But just little things you can do. I like that challenge, finding something new. Yeah, trying to stand out as well, I guess. As you said, in a crowded market. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to flip the coin over now. So that's what's good about it, right? Tell me, what are the three biggest challenges of running your own business from your point of view? Well, obviously, again, the financial side can be quite slow sometimes. You might put in a heck of a lot of effort, and then get beaten at the 11th hour by a number of guests, or losing clients. Very cutthroat out there. I've lost very, very few clients. And the ones that I've lost, I would say more, they have to cancel the cover because of the financial situation that they were in. So it's rare that I do lose a client. But you've got to be aware that these things do happen. You know, companies go bust, and people do lose money. So it's not always stable in that way. What else can I not like about it? There's not a lot that I don't like about it, really. There's a lot to remember. You know, who does what, different things on the products, and they're always changing. So you just keep on top of it. And I would say probably, the bugbear of most brokers is the compliance. It's a bit of a real pain in the backside, but it's got to be done. And I understand why it's done. And I think it's important for clients to know that, you know, you're there with what they're saying, keeping records and such. It's important, isn't it? Yeah, and I'm talking to a lot of brokers at the moment, who are telling me that the consumer duty changes have, if it was even possible to increase the burden on them, right, from a compliance point of view, that has achieved that multiple times over. I think that's a shame. I'm with you. I get that, you know, the customer needs protected, but my opinion is it's maybe gone a little bit too far. I guess I'm interested in your take on it. Well, I agree. And particularly, if you do put a lot better in, and then you don't win that client, you've still got to document all the resets that you did and put all of that down to prove that you were acting in the best interest of the client as well. And if I'm honest, I've got my own policy. I haven't read my policy documents. You know, obviously, I do know the industry, but how many people read the information that they get sent? Because I bet no one has read the terms and conditions that you send out. We don't, do we? How many times when you're going through an app or, you know, Google, it'll come up, have you read our terms and conditions? Click yes. All the time. Because you just think, I just want to get to the bit that I'm interested in. And all the clients are looking for is, am I covered? What's the cost, really? You know, that's all they want to know, that if they like you and they trust you, they assume you'll have done your best for them. I think once you've done that with a client and you've sort of given them your terms of business and gone through fully well and why they should trust you, I think it should be just left at that, really, and just keep filing these documents year after year. It's very time consuming. And that probably reduces the chance of you growing your business, because you're spending so much time on admin. Yeah, and I spoke to one business owner recently who's having to recruit more people into the compliance team, and so they're now running with, I don't know, four or five people on the team, which, you know, without being crass about it, those people are not generating income for the business, right? So they're, in a nice enough way, they're taking money out of the business. But that MD was, you know, clearly very unhappy about that. I did see also a piece, though, that the regulator is talking about engaging more with the broker market to try and cut back and ease that burden a little bit. So, you know, I welcome that. I think that's really important. Yeah. I mean, it is difficult, because there are bad people out there, unfortunately. You know, we do, I remember coming across brokers who would say to a client every year, well, let's just put you with this one, and we'll put you on a moratorium. Now, if you don't know what moratorium is, which people might not, is that you're pretty much, your medical history is anything that you've had from that point, you're not covered. Now, someone might move from one insurer to another, and if they put you on a fresh moratorium, the town that the staff would build insure is wiped out, so it's a waste of money, really. And you're damaging the client's cover. But there are brokers out there that have done that, just to make the, you know, to make the extra income, and would make more commission as well, just put it on a burgeoning scheme. So, that's what they're looking at, the bottom line for themselves. They're not looking at the client's interest. So, I appreciate there are people out there who've got to be careful. Sure, yeah. But like I say, once you've borne that relationship with the client, you shouldn't have to keep reiterating all the things you've done for them, you know, in writing, because they trust you. Yeah, maybe refresh it once every so often, but it does seem to be too much, too often, from what I'm hearing in the market anyway. That's it. And like I say, with all types of insurance, people just get the policy. I mean, I've got a document, came in the post to a different address at someone's house recently, as I mentioned when we were chatting earlier, and I've got the documents from the household insurance sent to a post office address, because I wasn't sure where I was going to stay at the time it came up. And I picked them up, and I was like, oh, what's this? I'm just got something in the back of the car. And then suddenly, it dawned on me, oh, that was my house insurance. But that's the way it is with insurance documents, I think. People do just shove them in a drawer, and that's it. So, you're wasting a lot of time for nothing, I think. So, let's change it up then from insurance because I think, you know, you said before, the general perception out there is insurance is a bit dull. So, I don't want to, you know, I don't want our audience to think we're, you know, a bunch of insurance geeks, although we probably are. So, outside of, you know, when you're not doing insurance and employee benefits, Jo, you told me you're a dog behaviourist. So, I've never spoken to a dog behaviourist before. I'd love to hear more about that. Well, if you had a problem doggy, that's probably the one, but you would be very lucky. Or you might be a cat man. Yeah, dogs are pretty much my life. I've got five dogs of my own. And we've recently got a new puppy, actually. So, she's absolutely gorgeous. And I got into it about 24 years ago now. I had a problem dog of my own and needed some help. And at the time, when I ran around behaviourists, it was very expensive. And stupidly, in a way, I ended up spending thousands getting myself trained to deal with the problem. But sort of thinking, oh, this works. I understand it now. And I'm starting to see the way that dogs think. And then decided I'd like to try and start doing that for other people. And put charging a reasonable price. That's the other thing. You know, behaviourists do charge silly money. I'll go along and see someone who will tell me, well, have you seen that brilliant fellow on the telly? He's amazing. And I would do exactly the same as he does. And he would charge a thousand pounds for that. And I'd charge 80. Because I think it's important for the client to be able to afford it. Otherwise, dogs end up getting put to sleep or put into rescue and all that. And because it was always a sideline business to me, it wasn't about money. It was about getting things right for the client. And I love it. I love being able to change people's lives. You know, I mean, I've had customers where, let's give you an example. One of the worst ones I had when I first started. I was very lucky. It was an early customer. And it sort of set me up and made me realise that what I was doing did work. And this chap rang me. And he said, my dog's eating the house. That's a great chat answer. He said, and he's weeing everywhere. And stinks. And I'm sorry when you get here. It's terrible. It's right fine. And I went to the house. And literally, there was no carpet down. You had to take the carpet up. The walls, remember the old dado rails on the walls? Well, not old, because a lot of people are now using it again. But it was literally chunks of wood around the corner. They had a 5,000 pound green leather suite that was just wings and foam and bits of wood. You know, it was horrendous. But this poor dog, from the minute I got there, I was literally jumping on. I'm so stressed. I'm so stressed. And they were really making that dog feel like he had a big responsibility that he couldn't handle. He was a seven-month-old German Shepherd. So I taught them what they needed to do. Because I always say it's about teaching the owners, not the dog. And I left them with lots of info and said, I'll give you a call in a few days. See how we're getting on. And I planned to ring them on the Wednesday, but I couldn't wait any longer, because it was an early case. So I rang on the Tuesday to see how it was going. And she said, it's not done anything wrong since you've been. It's like a different dog. It's completely calm. And it was like, wow. And in those days, I was charging 25 quid. So I thought, I've changed their life for 25 quid. And then I rang her about a year later, because the RSPCA had actually put together a case history to show them what I did. So I rang her a year later. I said, I'm just curious. How's it going? And she said, oh, we've got another dog as well now. Best buddy. Never had a problem with any of them since. So it's lovely. I love that feeling that you've made a difference. And I've written a book about it. So if you're interested, Doggy Dilemmas by Joe Wood. You can get it on Amazon. Doggy Dilemmas. OK. Yeah. That's an animal business, Doggy Dilemmas. OK. And the book tells the story of how I got into this. It talks about Diesel, the devil dog, which was my monster dog that got me into it in the first place. And then there's some case studies of what I've done. And then I've got training tips at the end there. So it's a lovely review on Amazon and Mobile. Fantastic. Yeah. I wish I'd done a podcast about that, rather than about insurance, to be honest. Well, I've just got a few bits on the radio about dogs. Yeah. I was going to come to that, because I know you mentioned that before. But that sounds far more interesting than talking about insurance all day. So, yeah. So you are a veteran of the interview and local radio and stuff like that. So tell us a bit more about that. Well, I've done a few bits on the local radio, which is my local BBC station. And then we had another station called KCFM in Hull. There's quite a bit on there as well. And I even did, like, literally about 10 seconds on the local news one on the TV, which was just talking about why dogs need exercise, really. It wasn't an awful lot. And I remember watching it and thinking, oh, they look like that. But if you don't see yourself as where you are, do you? But yeah, my friends and I did a little radio show as well on one of the local stations, a bit like Swimming, just talking about women's issues, I suppose. You know, which is always the sort of go-to thing at the moment. Sorry about that. But I think it's a very important topic. And insurance has been focused on it a lot more, actually. It's good that that is happening. People are seeing that it's not just, you know, mum's got a bit to do with it. There's a lot more behind it and it can be very debilitating for a woman. Yeah. And the profile of it is increasing massively, Jo, every week. And I think that's a good thing. It is, definitely, yeah. Because I know I've certainly had times in the past when I struggled with that sort of thing. I mean, obviously, I'm only 21, like I said. Of course, sorry, yeah. I have a very early menopause. But yeah, it is an important thing and it can have a big impact on women who work, definitely. Of course, yeah, yeah. So this is not a new experience to you, having this kind of conversation? No, I suppose not. Yeah, I mean, I think you talk to a living when you do this sort of thing anyway, don't you really? Yeah, I think I've got verbal diarrhea, as my mum would have said. Can't help it. I talk to myself when I'm on my own. I think we all do that. Yeah, yeah. So go back to the dog thing for me. I'm really intrigued. So you specialise in a particular type of insurance, right? Do you specialise in a particular type of dog? I don't know, like poodles or chihuahuas or something like that? No, anything, any dog, any sort of problem, anything from dogs eating the house to dogs aggressive to people, to other dogs. I've seen an awful lot of people who've got a dog that they walk along the street and it'll bark at everything in sight. So I mean, I had a really lovely case, actually. This chap rang me and he said, I'm on to my first trainer now. And so this is the last chance alone. And I've heard that many times before, no pressure. And he said, my dog just wants to kill every other dog. Right, okay. So I said, where are you at now? What are you actually doing at the moment? So I said that this particular trainer had told him to put the dog on a thong collar, which I actually think is probably illegal. It's like it stabs the dog in the neck when it's biting, but that's not good. And an electric shock collar, which is ridiculous. So every time that dog saw him as a dog, the man shocked it and actually stabbed it in the neck. So I said, why do you think your dog hates other dogs? Because in his mind, that dog caused that pain. That dog caused that shock. He doesn't like dogs. So I'm going to get him there first and I'm going to tell him to go away. So that was what was going on. So we took him out, lots and lots and lots of treats, because it's all about positive reinforcement. And I just used what's called a multi, it goes around the nose and it makes it much easier for a dog to walk without pulling. But there's no pain involved at all. And literally every time I saw a dog in the distance, I gave the dog some cheese. So it started to go, oh, I like dogs, because they bring cheese. I've changed my mind, they're not bad after all. But we only saw a couple. So I said to the guy, I said, we're going to have to go somewhere where there's a lot of dogs. Let's go to the beach front, which was at Bridlington. And he said, there's going to be hundreds of them. I said, exactly, that's what we're looking for. So we must have passed 50 dogs. And this, it was a German Shepherd. I'm not flogging German Shepherds, bless them. It sounds like a seal, it's not a kiss. But he was literally walking along going, oh, there's a dog. Where's my cheese? Oh, there's another one. Where's my cheese? And he was a different dog. And it was brilliant. And just to see that transformation in the dog, and the owner to realise, without sounding awful, he'd been the cause of the problem, because he'd made the dog anxious about whenever I'd seen other dogs. So it's really great to see that. But it's not all shepherds, I've seen an awful lot of different breeds, I've seen pretty much everything. All different kinds. So it seems to me that we need some human behaviour trainers like that, if you can have an impact like that on a dog. I think there are some people who need that kind of... Well, it is the owners that are trained, yeah, definitely, it's the owners that are trained. Actually, just remembering that appointment that I mentioned, as we were walking along, looking for dogs, one of the people that passed me going in the other direction, and she like, went and waved at me. And I'm thinking, what was that? And then it clicked. She was a lady I'd seen a couple of weeks prior. And her dog had been barking at everything. And it wasn't, and she was like, look at me. It was lovely. But it's training the owners more than the dogs, really. Yeah, of course. Listen, I could talk all day about that. I wish we had more time to do that. So just before we wrap up then, Jo, let's bring it back to business and what you do, or one of the things that you do for a living on your PMI business. So you mentioned menopause, what do you see as the big topics over the next two or three years in the healthcare sector that people should be thinking about? It's got to be the NHS waiting list, really, I'm sure. Only this morning, I was sent an article about the fact that there's a lady in Wales who's waited for 10 years for a diagnosis of endometriosis. And apparently, that's quite the norm in that situation. So it's people having to wait for treatment for such a long time now. And people often say, oh, no, I don't want medical insurance. Ah, I believe in the NHS. What they don't appreciate is that they're actually supporting the NHS, because if they take out a policy, you're taking the pressure off. And if they can afford a policy, and if it's a company, put it through the business and offset it against the corporation tax. Why would you not do that? Because if you can do that, you're supporting the NHS, you're getting yourself or your colleagues back to work quickly, and you're taking the pressure off the NHS as well. And you don't want to be hanging around in pain if you can avoid it. No, of course. It's the NHS that's the big worry, really, and I don't know how on earth I can fix that. It just needs a lot of money pouring into it. Yeah, there's not a lot of good news out there about it. Do you think we're headed for a time, maybe not in the next few years, but in the long term future, where there just isn't an NHS and the healthcare system's privatised, like in other parts of the world? I wouldn't be surprised. I really hope that's not the case, because it's something that we should be proud of for the NHS. But I do feel that the demands on it are just incredible, really. And I think also, you know, some people should be made to have medical insurance, but why can't the government remove the tax on it for a start, take IPC off there? They don't need to put that onto it. You know, it's just yet another hidden tax that they're enforcing on us. That would make it more affordable for people. And why don't the government maybe support companies that do offer it to the staff? You know, give them the incentives to do that, so that it's better for everyone. And then that is, again, taking the pressure off the NHS. It could just do with government giving a bit more backing to that. Yeah, some more solutions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Let's come back another time and do a podcast on that, because that could be a fascinating subject. Oh, you're bogging that one here. Yeah, absolutely. Jo, I'm afraid we're out of time. I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting. It's great to get to know real people in the industry. And like I said, I've not spoken to a radio star or a dog behaviourist. And you've ticked both of those boxes at once for me. So thanks ever so much. I wish you continued luck in all your different ventures. It sounds like you've got a real good mix of stuff going on. Yeah, it's definitely never boring. Yeah, no two days are the same, right? No, not at all. I love it. Yeah, I really do love it. And be nice. Long may it continue, I hope. So anyway. Yeah, spot on. It's been very nice of you to set me on. And thank you very much for that. I've enjoyed it. Yeah, pleasure, Jo. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks a million. Take care. Thanks. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that episode. It had something just a little bit different in it. You've been listening to Follow the Advice with David Brown. If you'd like to get in touch with me, you'll find me on LinkedIn. Just search for David Brown Problem Solver. You can listen to other episodes of the podcast on audio.com. And if you'd like to check out my video content, you'll find me on YouTube at Skoosh Consulting. That's S-K-O-O-S-H. If you want to know what that means, visit my website at www.itsaskoosh.com. Thanks again for listening, and I hope to see you all soon.