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The podcast Deep Dives explores the use of Native American names and imagery by sports teams, focusing on the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians. The discussion highlights the racial slurs and systemic racism associated with these names, as well as the negative impact on Native American communities. The podcast emphasizes the need for genuine engagement, education, and meaningful collaboration with Indigenous communities to address these issues in the sports world and society as a whole. Some teams, like Florida State University and the Kansas City Chiefs, have taken steps to engage with Native American communities, while others have faced criticism for perpetuating stereotypes. The podcast concludes by advocating for ongoing dialogue, sensitivity, and proactive change to respect and honor Native American cultures. Hello everybody. Welcome to our podcast, Deep Dives. This is a podcast where we explore intersections of culture, identity, and social injustice. I'm your host, Ivan. And I'm Daniel. I'm co-piloting you guys today on our journey into a topic that's as contentious as it is crucial to understand. Sports teams use of Native American names and imagery, specifically the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians. This is a topic that really hits close to home to the both of us. With me having lived in the DC area for almost all my life, and Ivan having lived in the Cleveland area, I remember that there were calls for the Redskins to change their name for years. And former owner Dan Snyder eventually gave in during the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020 when Nike actually threatened to pull all Redskins merchandise from their stores in a move that would have crippled the team financially. But he eventually gave in and changed their name to the Washington football team for two seasons, and now they're the Commanders. That's right, Daniel. My whole time at Cleveland, Ohio, I have some firsthand experience with the Cleveland Indians and the name change during 2021. I remember this being a huge controversy in the city with protests even like breaking out around the city. The city of Cleveland changed its name about a year after the Washington Redskins. Today, we're discussing not just a surface level debate, but digging deeper into systematic biases and structural injustice these team names represent. It's a discussion that's been evolving, but one that should remain deeply relevant. Yeah, exactly. To our listeners, we aim not just to inform, but also to challenge and inspire reflection on how these issues impact not just the sports world, but society as a whole. So Daniel, let's start by setting the stage. When we talk about sports teams such as the Washington Redskins, which are now known as the Washington Commanders and the Cleveland Indians, which have transitioned to Cleveland Gardens, we're talking into a legacy that's more than just branding. Exactly. These names, especially Redskins, have been pointed out as racial slurs. The controversy around them isn't just about being politically correct. It's about recognizing the systemic racism and dehumanization of Native Americans that such names perpetuate. Now, I know there are some teams that we're going to get into later, such as the Florida State Seminoles, that do a good job of engaging with the Native American community, which is able, which is a big reason why they're still called the Seminoles, but the Redskins in particularly have done an awful job. For sure, Daniel. We'll definitely be tapping into those teams later on in this podcast, but talking talking back about the Redskins and systematic racism and dehumanization, that's a key point. The term Redskin has a really bad history, being associated with bounty hunting of Native Americans. It's not just a name, but a reminder of historical violence and oppression. Native American-themed mascots perpetuate stereotypes and have negative effects on Native youth and the way these Native youth view themselves and their communities. Right, and even the Cleveland Indians, while seemingly not as offensive, still contributes to a monolithic misrepresentation of Native peoples, which is reducing rich and diverse cultures to mere caricatures or mascots. What really comes to mind when I talk about that is the Chief Wahoo mascot, which looked like just really a caricature from a much less politically correct time of just a Native American. It's a form of cultural appropriation that ignores the contemporary existence and rights of Indigenous peoples. Absolutely, Dano. I believe it's just the way people look at it and it's the perspective of how you view these logos and these icons. Some people find it more offensive or less offensive, but it really depends on the person, I believe. But let's dive deeper, Dano. Can we talk about how these names contribute to systematic bias and structural injustice? It seems like an extension of colonialism in a modern context. Indeed, these team names and mascots are manifestations of systemic racism because they normalize stereotypes and contribute to the ongoing marginalization of Native peoples. They're part of a broader structure that privileges certain groups comfort and entertainment over the dignity and rights of Indigenous peoples. Absolutely, and it's definitely interesting to analyze this through the lens of structural injustice. The casual widespread use of these names have contributed to a society where Native American issues are often overlooked and minimalized, definitely from media representation all the way to political engagement. Absolutely. This isn't just about being offended. Studies show that these stereotypes harm Native American self-esteem and mental health, especially among children. It's a clear example of how systemic injustice operates through seemingly normal facets of daily life, reinforcing the invisibility and marginalization of certain communities. Absolutely. This is definitely where people are overlooking and minimalizing this Native American community. This brings us to an important analytical framework for my discussion. The concept of epistemic injustice, where these communities' knowledge and perspectives are often dismissed. Sports fans and institutions insisting on using these names without considering the Indigenous perspectives are participating in a form of injustice. And then, so we just talked about these significant changes of these team logos, such as the Cleveland Indians rebranding as the Cleveland Guardians, and then the Washington Redskins rebranding and transition to Washington football for two seasons, but now known as the Washington Commanders. Let's shift that focus away from these teams that have already changed their logos and talk about teams that haven't. These shifts signal a recognition of the harm caused by these symbols. Indeed, it's really worth noting that not all these teams have followed suit in this movement towards change. I know there are plenty of teams that still use Native American names and imagery when promoting their team. Exactly. There's quite a few teams that haven't changed the logo, but as of right now, let's talk about a Florida State University, which are home of the Sentinels. Despite ongoing discussions, they've maintained their association with Sentinel's tribe of Florida. They have been working closely with them to ensure that they keep their representation of the community respectful. I really think that's a big key for Florida State, because the Seminole tribe really is big in the state of Florida. Florida State uses a lot of Native American traditions that would seem offensive. For example, they do the tomahawk chop a ton, which is really, on its surface, seems like mocking a Native American war chant. They also, before the games, have a pretend Indian ride out on a horse and plant a spear at midfield. I really think it's important for them to engage with the community. Similarly, the Kansas City Chiefs have faced a lot of criticism for their team name and imagery, as well, including the use of the arrowhead symbol and just being the name of their stadium. While they haven't undergone a complete rebrand, they have taken steps to engage with the Native American communities and promote culture awareness, which I think is really big, because they use the tomahawk chop, as well, which, again, really seems like it's mocking Native American communities. But I think it's really good that they're engaging with the community on that. Yeah, it's definitely a nuanced issue. I believe it just really depends on the perspective you're looking at. Like, Florida State, they've done a really great job at talking to the community, being respectful, and just, like, represent their logo in a non-offensive way. But also, I believe many teams can do the exact same thing. I believe if we went back in the past, the Cleveland Indians could have implemented this strategy, same as the Washington Redskins, and I believe there would be no problem to this day. Some argue they honor Indigenous heritage, while others see them as perpetuating stereotypes and exhortations. Yeah, and I know this is very recent, but a couple days ago, a Native American group came out and really defended the use of the Indian logo for the Washington Redskins, saying that it wasn't really offensive to them, that they were actually going out on that field and honoring Chief Whitecaps, who is the man that they use as their mascot and their helmet. So I think the key here is ongoing dialogue and sensitivity. And as society progresses, we hope to see more teams engaging in meaningful conversations with Indigenous communities and taking steps towards greater inclusivity and respect. So, Ivan, given this understanding, how should society, and particularly the sports world, address these issues? It seems like a complex problem with very complex solutions. I believe a crucial step is having genuine engagement with these Native American communities. It's about moving beyond token gestures to meaningful consensation and collaborations. The changes made by Washington's commanders, including Indians, while laudable, these only came from after immense pressure and people forcing change as they look at it as negative and not in a positive context. Yeah, I think that's 100% right. It really feels like with the Redskins and Indians changing their name, it feels like they're not so much sorry for offending the communities, they're sorry that people are calling them out for it. So I think that change should not be reactionary, but more proactive and grounding a real desire to respect and honor Native American cultures instead of just getting the rights to use it. I think it involves education, raising awareness about their history, and significant of these issues among the broader public. Yeah, absolutely. It just seems that modern day is just trying to bring up these problems that have been around for centuries. But I believe the Cleveland Indians were founded in 1901. So after 120 years of being an iconic logo and team, did you decide to all of a sudden take that away? Education is definitely one of the most important things in our community to this day. It's not about just changing team logos, but understanding why these are problems in the first place. It's about challenging and changing the narratives that have contributed to systematic injustice against Native Americans. And from an analytical perspective, this situation invites us to consider broader strategies for combating systemic racism. It's about recognizing patterns of marginalization and addressing them at their roots, whether it's sports, media, education, or other sectors of the world. Yeah, let's look at the bigger picture. This conversation reminds us that sports are never just games. They're reflections of our society, the values, and the struggles. This issue offers a community of the larger fight against systematic racism and injustice. Indeed, and while changing names is significant, it's also a reminder of the work that still needs to be done to address the underlying attitudes and structures that's allowed these names to persist for so long. It's definitely a step towards not just diversity, but inclusion and respect for all communities. By examining and challenging these legacies, we can contribute to building a more and just and equitable society. And to our listeners, we hope this episode is not just informed, but also inspired you to think more critically about the symbols and traditions we often take for granted. It's through these conversations that we can begin to envision and work towards a better future for all. Thank you for joining us on this deep dive. It's a conversation that we'll continue to have, both here and in our communities. And we encourage you guys to keep the dialogue going, share this episode, talk about these issues, and let's all be a part of a positive change. Until next time, this is Ivan. Thank you for listening to our podcast. This is Daniel, signing off. Keep thinking deeply, questioning openly, and advocating passionately. Thank you guys.