ARV-D-10-07091997_Local History_Paddy Gannon_25dec1997

My name is Paddy Gannon and I'm standing in for your regular host, Josephine. With me in studio is Josephine Aspel and Ginny Convay, and of course Mary Gannon is on the phone, and here of course is Gráinne as well. Joining me live, as I said, will be Josephine Aspel, let her flack, and Ginny Convay, let her gush. Both long-serving members of the Irish Country Women's Association, and you're both very welcome indeed. So what do they do? Well, we hope to find out what it is that has made the IC a tick throughout all these years since its formation. Josephine, I thought you'd be a bit nervous, maybe a bit scared of all the paraphernalia this year. But I was wrong, wasn't I? I was. I've often thought that if we were depending on professionals to run and to come in here to the station, there wouldn't be any Connemara Community Radio, would there? I suppose not. If it weren't for people like yourselves, and like many other volunteers that come in here, we have to depend on those. You were involved, Josephine, and you have been for a long time in Let Her Flack IC, and in many other activities, in a voluntary capacity. Tell me a little about it, particularly about the IC, the Let Her Flack IC. Well, then, during the war years, Miss Thomson formed the Red Cross, and we were all in the Red Cross with her, and done a course of that, and first aid, and then done a course of homeless and afterwards. Then the war was finished, and then she decided to start a 98 Guild in Clegan. She had been involved with the suffragettes movement in London, and was very active in that. I think she kind of connected up the liberation of the women over there and the liberation of the women in Ireland, do you know? Because up to then, everybody was kind of confined to the kitchen and to the farm, and there was no outside, there was no outlet for women, really, until the ICA started. It was the greatest, it was the greatest, that did, do you know? Of course, we expect everybody to know what ICA is, so long as it stands for, but it doesn't actually. Irish Country Women's Association. So it meant that the women got out together once a month, and they sat down, they chatted, and they had each one learn from the other one, some talent or other, or some tips or something. So it became bigger and bigger. Then she wanted us to form a Guild in Netherfrac, so we formed a Guild in Netherfrac a few years later, but that fell through. And then later on, I joined up with the Clegane Guild, and next they formed a Guild in Netherfrac again, a younger crowd. And I came back to Netherfrac, and that fell through again. So now I'm with Tully Guild, and I'm quite happy. So I think most of the past 40 years I've been in some Guild or other all the time, and I wouldn't like to... Tully now is called Tully Cross rather than Tully. Tully Cross, yes. Ginny, you've scaled the ICA ladder and have served at many levels. How many years' service and how many different course of responsibility have you had in the ICA? Our ICA was started in October 1959, 38 years. We've been 38 years now in October. And I suppose I've held every office that could be held, President, Secretary, Treasurer. And then I was in the Federation as well, and it was Miss Brown that came to me one day at school, and she didn't say, will you be Federation Secretary or can you do it? But she said, you'll be Federation Secretary. So Federation, of course, is outside of the... All the Guilds in the county are made up of Federation. Did you ever think about national level? Oh, no. We're too far away for national level here. It's just only small island. That's all, I suppose, but... But a good car, I take it. The name Miss Robinson has come up a good bit, Josie, and we were only talking for a few seconds. She must have been a great character. Yes, she was a great character. So was Miss Brown and Miss Hapgood. Their whole life was dedicated to something like that. I remember one night Miss Robinson came to us in Tully Cross to talk about the suffragettes, and Miss Hapgood was driving her. And it was a real cold, wintry, bleak night, and we were all frozen. And at the end of the meeting, Miss Hapgood showed us she was wet up to there. When she was collecting Miss Robinson, she walked into a puddle of water and never complained all night about it. She was as happy as a lord. Yeah. I remember myself coming from a meeting years and years ago and we passed out a lean-in on a dirty, wet night and visibility very poor, and we passed a car over there. And it was, lo and behold, it was Miss Robinson. Yeah. About half past one in the morning. Yeah. And she making her way along home at about... She must have been 80 years then. Oh, did she was, I'd say. She must have been. Yeah. What makes the IC a tick, do you think? It's hard to keep organisations going, but this one seems to be going. The ICA started down in Wexford, in Bree, in Wexford, where the women came together. And at that time, it was water, running water and rural electrification. They were the problems that the women wanted to get. And I suppose, I don't know, what keeps it ticking? There was always some problems down through the years that the ICA got involved in. Now, that involves us trying to curb the drugs and drinking and all these kinds of issues that we have nowadays. And, you know, neither of you are young now, you know? But you still look... We're still young because the ICA is still going strong. We're still young. Except that when people, like, are getting on that they only see someone else sitting down the chair, you know? Yeah. I think we did, that's when we got old. When it gets to moving around, it becomes a bit harder, you know? I think it's harder now to get people... There's so much going on now, it's harder to get members than when we first started, you know? Oh, yes. Yeah. It's very easy to get... When we started, there was no bingo. We had our meeting the first Monday night of every month. But when the bingo came, we had to change it. You had to change it. Yeah. Now, the ICA is not just for getting together and chatting and spending the night beside the fire and drinking coffee and that kind of thing. You engage in projects of various kinds. Some activities going on besides. One time we were called a group of basket makers and tea drinkers. You were? Yeah. But we moved away from the crafts to the arts and to drama and different projects like that to improve our image. And, of course, Tally Cross was very successful at one stage down in the Opera House in Cork. Oh, yes. When in Ireland and drama, was it? Yes. The stations, the famous stations, which we composed ourselves and changed the words every time we went on stage. We never had the same words because it was all made up. So, there was a friend washing up liquid competition. And the night that we got it, I said, wouldn't I love to play in the Cork Opera House? Never thinking that we would. That was a national competition. It was, yeah. Yeah. We won first in Gorb and then we went to Clare Morris and we won that. We didn't win that round, mind you. Mulroney had one point ahead of us. But we were still picked to go to Cork. And that great day that we went to Cork and we came out tops, that day. Were you down there that day? No, I wasn't. You were there, Paddy. I was there. Of course, a lot of us went down and, of course, we were chuffed. Yeah. Magically. And stopped off in Gort then. What was your favourite place of yours, Janine, stopping off in Gort? We had music there on the way home. There was more than music, I think. There were a lot of fellas there, delighted to see Tony Costner. And, of course, there was set dancing and all. There was, yeah. I remember that night meeting a chap, I met him in the toilets, and he looked at me for a while and he said, I know you from somewhere. And I said, I don't know if you do. But he kept insisting he did. And he said, were you ever in Birmingham? Did you ever play football on Glebe Farm? I said, I did, about 30 years ago. And I remember you, he says, kicking a football, he said, in Birmingham. That was a long time back. It was, yeah. Did you ever engage in any big projects yourselves in Liverpool? Not anything like that, no, we didn't. Set dancing, all right, we did. But we didn't come anywhere. 4th or 5th or something. And set dancing, I think, to Headford, I think we went to. But I think that was for the competitions where I went. Yeah. The first drama that we entered, way back, we were only a few years old. And we were so back. That we got the Producers' Prize, which was a course that I'm green on. I'm sure it was Miss Brown that got it for us, because she was the Federation President at the time. Yeah. We were so much in need of help. Of help, yeah. Yeah. Of course, you didn't have any experience in that. Not at all, no. In that field anyway. No, it was great to give it a go, but to be successful. But amongst other things, you're involved in, both of you are with a lot of involvement with the elderly here. Yes. Advising them, yes, from the committee and all. To the club every Friday. That's a weekly, that's really demanding too, isn't it? Well, monthly meetings of the committee to arrange the programme for the next month. And you then weekly have all those elderly from stronger areas come in. Yes. And you have to provide food for them, do you? Well, we have helpers. We're lucky that we have so many workers. And entertainment of sorts as well. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so... But it must be worthwhile having... It's a great outlet for them. It's a great outlet for the elderly. There's people coming out to that, that never came out to anything. Yeah, and Paddy himself now will qualify as well. He's rubbing it in there. It's quite easy now, now. We're getting old. Yes. You're getting back on the yarn now. Do you find anything peculiar with the elderly? Any peculiarities at all as people get older? Do you find... Of course, they have plenty of them. What? Plenty of them. Would you agree? A lot of them insist on hoarding money. You'd wonder why. For the rainy day. Huh? For the rainy day. They wouldn't have much prospect of using it, would they? And even... No, they like to have it on them. There's a kind of a security there. When you're young, you can spend it around you. But when you get old... You're thinking of the rainy day. You have to be thinking of... And thinking of yourself, no, too. But there's comfort in watching it accumulate. There is. While the other powers are dwindling away from you. And of course... They have a habit of accumulating lots of goods and wardrobes. Junk. Junk, yes. Junk. In drawers and wardrobes and everywhere. We have a clean-out in that time. And we discover we might want that another day. You do, yes. I'm not joking. I'm not talking about you. You don't. I suppose it's partly, you know, that they... When you get old, you can't cope with everything. So it's hard enough to get rid of... Even to get rid of stuff. But the massive clean-out there recently... Oh, yes. That affected us. That certainly took care of a lot. My mother used to always say, keep a thing seven years and you'll get used to it. It felt the same. And it's true. It is, yes. You often throw away something and hope you'll come for it two weeks later. Yes. But... Then again, it's... It's a great outlet for them entirely. They seem to be very spontaneous. They are always spontaneous. Very easy to get them to get up and sing, or dance, or whatever. But you did have those parties for... I see you one time. Yes, yes. As well as... Yes. For them to go over. Yes, we used to hold them down until across at Christmas time and one in the summer time. But we had a lot more older people that time than we have now. Actually a lot more older. Yes. Yeah. We used to go to Canmore at one stage as well. We used to have up to 90 people there. 90? Yeah. Yeah. They used to come in at that time from St Anne's in Clifton as well. During the week I got my hands on a publication, a very worthwhile publication, made in 1985 by Tully Cross, Irish Country Women's Association, entitled Portrait of a Parish. And I'll just read the foreword of that because we will go on to discuss this at some length throughout the remainder of the programme here tonight. The publication of this local history marks the 25th anniversary of Tully Cross Guild ICA. Our Heritage was the national theme of the ICA year 1983-84. The Guild, believing that without recorded history our heritage can be too easily lost, decided to make our contribution in the form of a study of the history of our parish of Pen y Cille, its natural resources, the land and the people, their economic and social life and customs. A committee of 11 members, half the Guild membership, worked on the project, studying books and other printed records about life and events in Connemara in the past, local family archives, school and church records, maps of the parish and talking to residents whose memory goes back over the years about their family history and way of life. The project drew in many local people, young and old alike, as well as outside experts. The book presents the results as a series study of the local history of the parish, which will be used in local schools as a guide for the many visitors to the area and to help immigrants trace their roots. The project has already stimulated much local interest and we hope that the next step will be the formation of a local history society to keep this interest alive and to encourage further research. Perhaps also it will open people's eyes to the precious physical environment which they have inherited, the beaches, cliffs, rivers, lakes, islands, mountains, bogs, as well as the monuments of the past, the prehistoric tombs, old churches and graveyards and buildings that have featured in the history of the parish. All of this needs preservation from the ravages and neglect of 20th century civilisation. And that is the foreword to this publication, Portrait of a Parish, which at the moment is almost as scarce as hen's teeth. Very, very hard to get our hands on. Ginny, you were involved in the publication. Why is it so hard to find a copy of it now when there were two publications of this, weren't there? Two prints. There were, yes, but J.C. is in Galway that printed it for us first and when we enquired this summer they said they had changed their machines and the plates that they had weren't suitable. But then they were to come back to us again with a price on it, but they haven't come back to us. And it's a pity because so many people still want to buy it. You were involved, I see, because the members are listed here actually. Some are perhaps dead, but members of that history committee were Ginny Conway, Kathleen Quine, Kathleen O'Brien from Mullacross now, Mary Gannon, Eileen Heaney, again from Larrakesh East, Anne Jack, Tullycross, Joan Wheeler, who was editor of that. She lived at Tullycross for some time. She did, yes, she lived in Tullycross, but she's now in England. She's in England at the moment. And Maureen Herreid, who's now in Cork, lives in Tullycross. And Mary Lydon, rest in peace. She's the only one, I think. Mary McDonagh, Frances Nugent. Frances Nugent has also gone away. She was here at that time, yes. And Ruth Willoughby. Ruth Willoughby is still with us. She's still with us. Right. And on the next page, there is a lovely piece here by Oliver St John Gogarty. And I think he's talking about and the area around. Do you think he was talking about? He was talking about Wren Valley. He was talking about Wren Valley? He was. Yeah. I think that changed quite a bit. It sure has. The big changes around, as a matter of fact, do you trust me? The most notable? The most notable is that there's more people, more employment and more activity. More money in circulation, since I first came to Letterfack, anyhow. And there's definitely more employment now. Now, in this book, you see, this book was true. And funnily enough, when focused on Letterfack, there was quite a lot of enterprise and small business and arts and crafts. Not too much like what it is now. Yeah. I suppose, yes. You think that Basket Factory was in Letterfack. That's right. It has a picture of it. Yes. Yeah. What else was going on? There was more shops. There was two, three shops in Letterfack when I first came into it. One of the strange things I noticed then is that there are two pictures of workforces. The workforce that built Kylemore Abbey. Yeah. Yeah, I have that photograph. There are 50 men in that photograph. Yes, I get that photograph. And the workforce that built Tully Cross, the Marine Hall in Tully Cross, has 50. Yes, it has. I noticed that, yes. It would appear, though, that I was asking there about changes, that kind of change. Do you think it's a lot more difficult now to rear children? Oh, I imagine so. They don't appear to be as safe. They need an awful lot more supervision than when they were a kid or when Ginny was... Yes, and they need more. I think they need more. We don't know less of everything, I think. They need more now. They expect more. Because we had to do very little of... We had no pocket money when we were growing up. Very, very little. Maybe six months to go and three hours dance. That was all. That would be a fortune. But did you not feel that you had a lot more freedom of movement? We had. We were more carefree. Would you be allowed to visit in the houses? I think we were far more carefree. Without being supervised? Yes, definitely. There wasn't as much risk? No, no. There was no risk whatsoever. Would you think so, Ginny? Oh, yes. You wouldn't allow a child to go a few yards to the shop now without supervising them? No. We were... Well, you see, that of course in itself leads to anxiety and insecurity, doesn't it? It does, yes. So you've got to risk that or risk them growing up at home, I suppose, in many cases, because of dangers. Yes, yes. Drugs? Yes. Drink? Drink. Very little drink. Even in adults. Even in adults. I mean, I often think back house dances, they started maybe at 9 or 10 o'clock at night and went on 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. I never remember seeing anybody coming in drunk and the people gathered at that time. There was no such thing as waiting until 12 o'clock until the pubs shut or death. No. No. Yes. When we were early on, they were talking about change and changing time, maybe changing attitude, changing conditions generally. And, you know, Josephine came in armed with a nice one here. We are Survivors is the title for those born before 1940. We were born, she says, before television, before penicillin, polio shots, frozen foods, Xerox, plastic contact lenses, videos, Frisbees and the pill. We were before radar, credit cards, split atoms, laser beams and ballpoint pens. Before dishwashers, tumble dryers, electric blankets and conditioners, strip-dry clothes and before men walked on the moon. We got married first and we lived together. How quaint can you be? We thought fast food was what you ate in Lent, a Big Mac was an oversized raincoat and crumpet we had for tea. We existed before househusbands, computer dating, June careers and when meaningful relationships meant getting along with cousins and sheltered accommodation was where you waited for a bus. We were before care centres, group homes, disposable nappies. We never heard of FM radio, tape decks, electric typewriters, artificial hearts, word processors, yogurt and young men wearing earrings. For us timesharing meant togetherness, a chip was a piece of wood or fried potato, hardware meant nuts and bolts and software wasn't a word. Before 1940, made in Japan meant junk, the term make-and-out referred to how you did in your exams, stood was something that fastened a collar to a shirt and going all the way meant staying on a double-decker to the bus depot. Pizzas, McDonalds and instant coffee were unheard of. In our days, cigarette smoking was fashionable, grass was mown, coke was kept in the coal house, a giant was a piece of meat you had in Sundays and pot was something you cooked in. Rock music was a grandmother's lullaby, El Dorado was an ice cream, a gay person was the life and soul of the party and nothing more, while AIDS just meant beauty treatment or help for someone in trouble. We who were born before 1940 must be a hardy bunch when you think of the way in which the world has changed and the adjustments we've had to make. No wonder we're so confused and there is a generation gap today, but by the grace of God we have survived. Josephine, when did you compose all that? Oh, I composed that in my spare time, Richard. When you were dreaming and remembering. Jenny, this publication here, this portrait of a parish, that must have taken up a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of research. It took about, I think about three years altogether because first we did the history project, we collected all kinds of information, as it said there at the start of the book. Yes. And we compiled that thick project about the Federation, it was a Federation competition, the Guild of the Year or something like that. So then having done all that and having got all the information, we had songs and we had a lot more in it, we said it was a pity to let it go as it was, that we should compile a book. So the book is only about a third of all we had collected. So we spent about a year picking out the different pieces then to compile the book. So you had a whole mass of information. We had, yes. And who selected all those? The editor, Joan Wheeler and Peter and her husband, they did a lot of the work because obviously we hadn't time to do it. And you would have agreed according to yourself on what might be inserted and what might be, you know, probably had enough for another publication. We had and we always meant we had an awful lot of songs collected. We always meant when we had done the book we always meant to do a book of songs, of local songs. We never got around to it. But maybe someday someone might do it because we still have the information. And the foreword there mentioned the the desirability maybe of following through with the history, the historical society. Historical society. We never got around to that either. But there has been some data, quite a lot of data collected in the recent past, has there not? Oh, there has, yeah. Not by the ICNL, but by other groups. No, by other groups. Now, some of the contents are here. Of course, the book itself dwells mainly on the parish. But to get an idea of the times, there is a little bit here which dates back to 1747 and it's a description by Hardiman of Galway town. The town, he said, lay at an extreme point. There was no travelling by land beyond it and it was not a thoroughfare. The entrance for all land traffic was at the east gate and beyond the west gate lay Eir Connacht. That would, of course, be our Connemara, I suppose, you know, a country inaccessible by wheeled carriages and inhabited by papists who supplied the markets with such necessity only as were brought in on back loads. There's been some change since, isn't there? I think so. 1747. But you were saying you'd have grown up with back loads? Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, there was, yeah. Even in Hampshire? Yeah. Handbarrows. The odd person had a horse and a cat but it was only the odd person. Could only be the odd person, yeah. Lot of material would be carried on handbarrows with a man in front, a man at the back. Did you ever see a handbarrow? I did, yes. With too many between the sides, one front and one back, I used to myself. Yeah, pieces that they couldn't wheel or anything into or bring a donkey, maybe. They had to walk with the handbarrow and bring the load on them. But you'd remember women as well as men, haven't you? Oh, yes, definitely. Carried with you perhaps? Yes, I carried it myself. You did? Yes. You did? Yeah, all down to the land. We all had to do it in those days. Do you think if things were to go from bad to worse that we'd be able to do that, that the younger crowd would be able to get back into harness again? I don't know, I often wonder. Probably wouldn't. I think it was a great experience doing all those things. It was a chastening experience anyway, a chastening on your own. It was, you had to be tougher and stronger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of... quite a number of... I had a few requests, you know, because, you see, not all people out there, married or otherwise, are in the same age category as we are now. There are some much younger. There is an Aspel. Aspel is a strange enough name now, round out of fact. I noticed in this book there wasn't any Aspel in the school, or in the area, at that particular time. There wouldn't have been, I suppose, because the Aspels didn't come to the area until Kilmore Abbey was being built. Ah, yes. It was in the 18th, I suppose, 1860s. There is a list of place names for a particular date. I just can't get on to the details because I haven't got it in front, but for a particular date where there were 172 names in the parish and 87 of those have now gone, disappeared from it. Yeah. But there are Aspels out there. There's Liam and Mary and, of course, Liam is your nephew, isn't he? Yeah, they're all the same family. All the Aspels that are in this area... Recently, Liam and Mary celebrated their 21st wedding anniversary as did John and Bridie Cashin from Tully. And we'll go again with another song, and this time Ginny has requested this for members of the ICA, so I'll let Ginny introduce it. It's Tennessee Waltz by Louise Morrissey and you want to... Dedicate this to all the ICA members, all our ICA members out there and especially those who are gone and who helped us all down through the years. I can't mention names because I'd surely forget somebody, but the people from Clegg and ICA helped us so much in the early years. We mentioned Miss Brown and Miss Hapgood and Miss Robinson, but Celia O'Toole and Eileen O'Malley, I think, were our main helpers at the start of our ICA, and I'd like to dedicate this song to those and all our own members who are gone and our own present members. And Josephine, do you want to add to that? I'll just add to what Ginny has said now. Anybody in particular who was a great... All those people now, I think, helped us all. Yes. So here we have it now, and then we'll go with Tennessee Waltz by Louise Morrissey. I was waltzing with my darling To the Tennessee waltz When an old friend I happened to see I am her jinxer And I love to watch her I am her jinxer And I loved one The more they were dancing My friends stole my sweet heart from me I remember the night And the Tennessee waltz Now I know just how much I have lost Yes, I lost my Tennessee The night they were playing The beautiful Tennessee waltz And Josephine, I'll go back to you again because you said the Aspens came in earlier. They came in in Henry's time. That was Mickey's... Mickey's grandfather. Grandfather. Grandfather came. Now in the research for this portrait of a parish, there's a reference here. It's by a chap called Alexander M. Sullivan. He wrote of Mitchell Henry. He became, he said, not only attached to the place, but to the people. Protestant as he was, in the midst of a strong Celtic and Catholic peasantry, he found that his religious opinions raised no barrier between him and the confidence and affection of this simple and kindly race. Ere long his sympathy with the people, his uprightness, his liberality, were the theme of praise in even the humblest homes from Clifton to Le Corrib. He was known to be a man of considerable intellectual ability, great independence, and firmness of character. Yeah. He's always been remembered, Josephine, isn't he? He has always been remembered. I think he was both the first landlord that gave any concessions at all to their tenants, to his tenants. He looked after them well. Of course, would Mickey have heard, he would have heard a lot of stories, I suppose, from his own father, who might even have remembered Mitchell Henry. Oh, yes, he did. He worked there, too. He did, and that's where Mick's father and mother met, because Mick's mother came across from England to work for the Henrys, as did her sister. Her sister worked with the Henrys in London, in Stratheden House, before they ever came to Calmore. And then Mick's mother came across afterwards, that's where she met up with Mick's father, married. Yeah. His grandfather came from Wexford and stayed on, and I don't know what family he had when he left Wexford, but they travelled, we travelled with a horse and cartload of special stone for Calmore Valley. Horns or something that he... Of course, that name is still... Yeah, and that's how that became Wexford. It is, it is. Frequently crops up on Wexford, horn and shoes and whatever. Yeah. And, Ginny, down in the liturgies, down South Rook, there was General Thompson. He would have... Mrs. Willoughby now would have been connected to... He would have been Mrs. Willoughby's grandfather. He would have been, yeah. Now, there are great things written about him too, because here is an extract here again, and it's a letter, a private letter to John Galway on May the 17th, 1984, and General Thompson himself wrote, he said, we're in a most wretched state of destitution, and he goes on to say in his own words that, you know, the people were not... They owed him rent. They weren't on... They were unable to find work on public works, but he still employed them. They weren't able to put down their own crops. He employed them to put down his crops. Even though they owed him, he still paid them, and he said he would continue to do it until the money ran out, until there was no money. And as for paying rent, he said there's not a thought about it, and this Outdoor Relief Bill, with all the rates to be levied to carry it out, will make the proprietors as bad as the poorest man on their estates, for they will not be able to pay it. So he himself faced the prospect of being just as poor as the rest. So even in those times, there were some people who made a massive contribution, I suppose. Ginny, before we go, I'd like to refer to you, of course, because in this book, again, it says, Ginny Convey, National Teacher, and so on, and now you're retired, Ginny, after most of your lifetime, I suppose, down in Lethergate. And in the course of your research here, you managed to find something about all the schools, the four schools. But I'll concentrate on Lethergate School, because it obviously was built, it says here, in 1868 by Mitchell Henry, and was opened on April 12th, 1869. And the first teacher was Edward Carrick. But, during the day, districts and inspectors visited the school at regular intervals, and his observations gave an interesting insight into the school activities. The school started with few resources, January 13th, 1879. Supply of books and apparatus, none on hand. Pupils, he said, then, July 24th, 1882, pupils should be strictly prevented from using the fingers and counting and arithmetic. I observed even fifth-class pupils counting on their fingers. That was never in your time, was it? It was. Was it? There's no harm at all for them. They're counting on their fingers yet. They are. Now, it also says that of 40 girls present in second and higher classes, only 19 at Temple. Yes, I found that very interesting when I looked up all those observations. Yes. Of course, there is very much so on the use of temples. Are temples used at all? I haven't seen a temple firm. Well, if you were doing patchwork, you'd want a temple. So, now, we said the ceiling, of course, he reported as well on the school, because he said the ceiling required to be plastered. The school was not quite washed last year, or the year before, he said. But, he said, the school room is a model of cleanliness and the playground is beautified by a tasteful display of flowers. But train the children to speak. They're very slow at oral answers, he said. Now, he said, geography is mechanical, because no pupil in third or fourth saw the Atlantic. And, of course, the school was situated on the edge of the Atlantic. Yes. And, I suppose, they didn't refer to the Atlantic, you know. No. No, but that's just, you know, I mean, this book is, I suppose I've often roused through myself, but, in the course of last week, during last week, just simply because we're coming on here, I found this to be absolutely delightful book and full of all kinds of useful information. Now, there is, undoubtedly, a much fuller program than the one we have had here. To do with the book itself, which was just one of the efforts of one of the local ICA girls. And we haven't even touched on, at all, or a tenth of what the ICA has been involved in. But, sadly, we're only here for two hours, and, like numerous other locations that I've been here, the hours just tend to fly, and we have come to the end. God, I have to thank everybody connected here. Gráinne on the switch, brilliant. Mary on the phone, and Josephine and Ginny here with me. But from me, Paddy Gannon, for tonight, it is goodbye, and God bless, and thanks to everybody.