Ep6 Difficult Woman_edited

The speaker, Sanjana, shares an incident where she made a casual comment that offended a coworker at an office party. The coworker threatened her with violence, and despite apologizing multiple times, he continued to threaten her. The speaker discusses the aftermath of the incident, where she was labeled as a difficult woman by her colleagues. She shares her frustration with the lack of support and understanding from her team and HR. The speaker questions why women are often advised to avoid confronting such situations and wonders if it's better to let go for the sake of peace of mind. Hello and welcome to our podcast Coffee Plus This Friend. I'm your host Sanjana and with me is my friend and co-host Varnika and today we will be talking about the difficult woman. So Varnika, how does it feel to be back after this short hiatus? It feels good but also this hiatus has been a headache for both of us for different reasons, for kind of similar reasons. Oh yes. And we survived it with all the coffees and dispense we have been taking. Today we are going to talk about the difficult woman through your example. You are a very difficult woman. Oh. You just aren't so difficult. I rile up people all the time. You rile up people all the time. So we are talking about something that happened to you in a professional setting, in our office. Tell us about it in your own words. Sanjana. So this incident happened a few months ago where you know we were at a office party so to speak right, official office party, team party and you know we were planning the place and everything and I was having a conversation with a person and while having this conversation with let's say this person Y, I very casually mentioned that oh the other person X is your chamcha. I meant it in the most friendly, jestful possible way but the second the words came out of my mouth I was like okay the person might be offended because they didn't understand my intention. So I turned and I just apologized to this person and let's call this person X and I'm like listen I'm really sorry I really didn't mean this. I meant it like you know how if someone called me the chamcha of my best friend I take it as a joke because you know of course I'll agree with everything she says. By that time he had already threatened you once. Yeah so the second I apologized. His face was all angry. Yes I almost got scared looking at his face. I actually genuinely got scared like and you know he's a big person and his response was Sanjana shut up or I'm gonna hit you. And he also made the gesture. The gesture and of course I'm paraphrasing this because he said this in Hindi which sounds more crude when you say it but I'm paraphrasing it and you know he gestured that he's gonna you know hit me and I was so scared I kept on apologizing. I think I apologized around four or five times that I'm really sorry I didn't mean it I meant it in this way that way and it doesn't matter what I meant it I'm really sorry it was not to offend you and each and every time he sort of you know threatened to hit me and again I think I'm being very apologetic about it because even if it was a mistake even let's say I meant it in the most derogatory way that you're someone's chamcha I still don't think that warrants someone threatening you with violence. But the difficult woman part doesn't start here it's everything that happened after that the reactions that came from the rest of the people who were present on the scene who were not present how all of them reacted to this incident tells us a lot about how people treat women who who don't take other people's shit yeah that so the thing is I in the in that moment of course I was like okay I was apologetic and the funny thing is when I called you to recall that incident I was like wait what why am I being apologetic I was just threatened to be like hit by someone and what happened in the aftermath was that everyone I told like the immediate team members they were like oh really if that happened it's really wrong yeah if that happened they were all there so no like this happened and this is only when I said this after a few times they're like oh this happens is very very wrong you speak to this person and by the next morning ex's best friend so to so-called best friend said that I apologize on his behalf I think that's wrong and I have a mother who works so I understand as if you know he needs a working mother to understand the gravitas of the situation yeah even though the two things are not related at all it's just about behaving decently with a fellow human being yeah so you know it felt like you know everyone understood that it was wrong right and I was like should I go to the HR to talk about this because this is clearly like a very major thing I don't think you started talking about going to the HR until it got to the point where this person kind of tried to ask me to apologize to you somehow and actually never really spoke to you one-on-one yeah but the situation just kept on getting worse and worse with everyone slowly coming to his defense by saying things like well he was a bit drunk and this is a person who claims to hold his liquor very well and what else what else you shouldn't you know really ruin his reputation or destroy his career something along those lines so yeah that I planned that I never planned to go to the HR and this person of course thought I will so he gave me a full apology it was like the most preposterous apology was like on text yeah yeah and I was like I wanted to forget about it but at the same time I kind of tried telling him that you know you should probably send her flowers so I don't want that I want a heartfelt apology that you did something like I was trying to explain to him that when you apologize you should kind of make a gesture you should have you have to go out of your way to make someone understand that yes yes you understand what you did wrong but he never did the only full apology I got was because he thought that I'm gonna go to the HR to complain right which I never intended to do because I was like he apologizes if he realizes right so but the thing was things got really weird because when he went to office he was icing me he was being you know there was animosity he was icing me out which is weird and you know I thought it was it was responsible thing of me to go speak to my HOD that time that this happened and you know I don't think I'd be comfortable working with this person in close proximity because what if he ever threatens to hit me again you know you never know right and that's where the whole thing starts right because I was told at that time that this is a childish matter and don't bring these childish matters to me yeah and I think this thing only blew up a little bit because this person failed to communicate some work issues to me and then of course blame it on me only that I didn't help him and you know then we were taken in a room because he literally said that I think whatever your personal equation is affecting work and this is not a personal equation because I was threatened at a workplace party right so then of course they were I was very honest that yes I made that comment but still doesn't warrant the way that he spoke to me and I then I was told that you know Sanjana you know he's not a bad person his intentions weren't bad we're all good people over here and you know you didn't mean it that way something along those lines you are being over sensitive and I was told this multiple times that I'm over sensitive then you are overreacting that you are emotional as if the reaction he gave was not emotional yeah and that is like one of the main things that patriarchy does is that it defines men's anger is not an emotion they are not emotional women are the emotional beings men are not emotional with their big feelings and big anger and threatening and violence and hitting everyone around yeah not to mention that this would have been treated very very differently had you not been a girl had he said this to a fellow perhaps he would not have but had he said this to a colleague who was a guy then probably they would have had a fist fight right then and there you know everybody would have egged them on so yes so this was the incident in the nutshell and what happened long term was that the entire team sort of started you know being a little distant and I wasn't able to figure out what I did wrong because I couldn't even imagine that the team would think that I am the difficult person to work with but a colleague later mentioned that you know Sanjana this all started when you complained about you know this person and I was like what did I do wrong and yeah we come back to that point again and again Sanjana that well if you don't want someone to say something bad about you don't do bad things yeah don't do bad things to them yeah how easy is that and if you do bad things then you can't expect there to be absolutely no repercussions whatsoever but that's what people think and so I was tagged apparently I was tagged as a difficult woman that I'm someone very you know people don't want to be around because I didn't trouble me yeah takes everything to the heart and everything to the heart yeah so I mean that happened and I was really bothered by the fact that all of this was set and also had no support there's something that's so black and white that I was the one who somehow like I was the one in the wrong which didn't make any sense to me so the going forward you did actually end up going and speaking to the HR which also did not amount to anything really yes like it always is like it always is so what the question I have here is like this happens to a lot of women hmm women I'm speaking about specifically because we are talking about our examples here is that sometimes it feels better to just avoid the battle you know you you say things like well you know not your not your battle to fight have a thicker skin have a thicker skin karma so and so will face karma or whatever but like you know just let it go let go your peace of mind for your own peace of mind let it go and larger in larger society we see this anyone is often like will be advised key better not to go to the court you get caught up in the legal drama that will affect you and your life so much more let all that go see you have a supportive boss not just someone who is like a LinkedIn warrior and your supportive boss actually helps you navigate navigate that situation still somehow amongst your colleagues you know they will start behaving a little bit differently with you they will start acting as if well now they have to be careful of you you complain you are sensitive we don't know when Sanjana might misunderstand or when she might get emotional hmm yeah things like that so your life becomes so much more difficult if you complain yeah what is when you just let it go yeah so then sometimes it can seem as if it's better to let it go yeah but on the flip side if you don't let it go for example I remember Varnika you told me about this incident at your previous job where your boss made a comment about you about your intellect which was very derogatory yeah he said this girl has zero intellect in a team meeting yeah and you let it go you actually were nice to him you never confronted him about it right yeah but then it bought you told me in your own words it bothered you for a very very long time yeah I kept on repeating that incident in my mind I questioned myself so many times and now I'm confident enough to laugh about it but would you rather you that you know you could go back in time and sort of confront him that no this is not a what I can confront like this is not a way to speak to me yeah so I don't know whether I could have confronted him or not but what I understand is by letting it go overtly I haven't let the trauma go from inside yeah that stays yeah so letting it go is not really beneficial for yourself it stays with you letting it go is very subjective right there are people who can genuinely let it go in a sense that they think of the person okay this has happened I don't care it doesn't bother them internally or externally that's letting it go but in this situation if I didn't speak up about it Varnika it would have bothered me for the rest of my life I would have been unauthentic to myself to my principles and my morals not to mention that how would you have worked with him you it would have required a lot of pretending and energy on your part to work with him after that incident without bringing it to a resolution a conclusion or say talking it out and here something of that sort the second thing I feel is that you know we are here today because someone before us fought for the rights we have we can make a podcast today we are speaking our mind out in the open so by not speaking up not only are we harming some future generation who we don't know we are harming the whole environment around us younger women who are listening to us and learning this culture of just you know shutting up just put up and shut up sort of a culture or young children who feel like it's okay exactly let it go didn't you also fall prey to that key you know you think this is except not acceptable but I let it go I would in fact thinking well you know the world is bad things are changed yeah what can I even do may complain can they say I mean it could speak anything nothing will happen yeah so better to you know but we don't really move on like yeah and honestly the third point is that it's a disservice to anyone else who's trying to be kinder and a nice person in this world if you are behaving in the exact same way like you are saying something good in public about someone who is good and you are saying something good in public about someone who is bad what a discrepancy it is to know what's the point of any of us being good if someone who is bad is also being treated in the same way that's a more philosophical question but the thing is of course we are good because we want to be good not because you know some appreciation yeah but the fact is yes effect by doing like what you just described the behavior that effectively are saying that it doesn't matter you can get away with whatever nonsensical behavior or rude comments or violence or whatever and that's how the culture of and honestly even though idealistically we are supposed to be good because of our inherent nature but if you condition someone to believe that you know a person who is and we don't talk about X over here we talk about something general that a person who's let's say you know constantly you know doing something so the actions are not very nice right and you're constantly praising that person or defending that person it effectively shows other people that doesn't matter how your behavior is you can get away with anything yeah so that's a disservice to society to humanity to be honest so in conclusion would you say that what do you think looking back you should have spoken up you know I suffered a lot because I spoke up but I wouldn't have changed it I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night if I knew that someone did this to me and they would get away with it that person has gotten away with it but I know I did my part that I spoke up and I really hope that person you know in the future thinks twice before making such comments towards anyone else whether a man or a woman I want that to happen because it's not about me it's also about you know the statement I make via my actions so yeah I won't have changed it awesome you are you're a braver person than most of us you're a braver person than I am it comes at a very huge cost sometimes but you know I'm willing to pay that's actually something very important right I mean you know all of us are brave it's not like we aren't but it's about the cost we are willing to pay for it and it's okay sometimes people are not willing to pay the cost you have other obligations and sometimes you just can't help it you'll be tagged a difficult woman no matter what like Jane Goodall says it doesn't take a lot to be tagged a difficult woman that's why there are so many of us okay so now as we come to the end of the episode we are adding a new segment which is called the most preposterous comments we've heard in the past weeks yeah so Sanjana please begin what's the most preposterous comment you've heard so you know all our podcast core seems to come out of our office you know our beloved workplace so recently what happened was we were discussing our podcast in the office and one man in his all his manliness decided to interrupt our conversation because you know why not and decided to man spin feminism to us yes and said he's not a feminist button but believes in equality and he went on to substantiate this by saying that you know how he opens the car door for his mom and he said no one told him to yeah he just does he just opens the car door for his mom yeah so that what an equalist my comment was also made by him is when he compared feminism to a conspiracy like PETA then throwing red paint on leather jackets you know feminism is like that it's like propaganda he said propaganda it's a propaganda yeah so if you don't think feminism is a propaganda listen to us so if you think feminism is a propaganda still listen to us and Ray John and smash the we are super excited to be back whoo-hoo bye