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Transcription
The speakers discuss the concept of the "cool girl" and its implications for women. They talk about how women often feel pressure to conform to societal expectations of being cool, understanding, and non-confrontational. They also share personal experiences of playing into the cool girl image in both personal and professional settings. They discuss the importance of picking their battles and supporting other women. Ultimately, they reject the idea of being a cool girl and express a desire to be true to themselves. I'm tired of expectations, crushing fear, I'll never make it, I can feel it running underneath I'm so sick of my ambition, wishing I could be so brilliant, and this idea won't happen for me Art defined by algorithm, we're just victims of the system, how did we end up playing the game? Hello and welcome to our very very sanskari podcast, Coffee plus Discipline Where I am with you Sanjana and my very very sanskari friend, Vandika Hi, I'm not that sanskari actually, I'm not sanskari at all from any standards But I do like to think of myself as a cool girl sometimes What is a cool girl Vandika? I don't think I'll be able to say it better than Gillian Flynn So I will read a small passage from her book, Gone Girl, very famous passage Men always say that as the defining compliment, don't they? She's a cool girl, being the cool girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman Who adores football, poker, dirty jokes and burping Who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex And jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth That she's hosting the world's biggest culinary gangbang While somehow maintaining a size 2 Because cool girls are above all hot, hot and understanding Cool girls never get angry, they only smile in a loving manner And let their men do whatever they want Go ahead, shit on me, I don't mind, I'm the cool girl Men actually think this girl exists Maybe they're fooled because so many women are willing to pretend to be this girl I think most women get into the whole idea of a cool girl And I'm no exception to that, of course I've paid into that idea Whether as a child, not a child, I mean as a teenager I think once you start noticing the male attention towards you, right? And there are many names for this It can be the not like other girls syndrome That you know, I'm special, I'm the one in a boy's group I like to hang out with the boys And especially in engineering colleges And the fact that female friendships are played down One of our colleagues, he told me this That he actually understands how female friendships are underplayed so much And he said that looking at both of us, he's like I think it's just so incorrect How other people sort of underplay That women will always be competitors And they'll always be competing for male attention And you know that women are bitching about each other behind their bags And they'll speak to each other on their face And also, so it plays into that same idea of male validation And among other names is the manic pixie dream girl And in India, it's like Imtiaz Ali's protagonist in all the movies You know, the Geet from Jab Bi Met Oh, the Geet from Jab Bi Met, typical example Or like Naina from Yeh Jawani Hai Diwani Or I think any of the Imtiaz Ali movies I think he's famous for creating the Indian version of manic pixie dream girl Yeah But you know what exactly is the manic pixie dream girl Or you know, what is a cool girl? So, broader concept, global concept And very generic At a generic level, it's somebody who is not uncool Like, it's not somebody you can't play around your friends But also not somebody you cannot take home to your mother No, it's someone you can take home to your mother Right, and at the same time That's what I meant At a global level, it's a whole different concept I think the Indianized version of a cool girl is a little different, I feel It might be It plays into the same stereotypes but a little bit enhanced Okay, what are the adjectives that come into your head When you think of the Indian version of the cool girl? We can alternate between the adjectives Yeah, so Dresses very Indian With like, sexy sarees Not sexy, sorry No, I think she dresses traditionally in front of the parents But sexy in front of the Well, they're just In front of the public but in front of the parents The whole demeanour changes to, you know I do puja and I'm wearing a dupatta and everything The whole works, right? Someone who's like, freaking the sheets But you know, very vanilla in public And also puja Like you said Cooks well Cooks well? No, she loves cooking Not loves it, you know She doesn't cook in general but she would cook for you Because how much she loves you Yeah, she'll make you special meals She takes care of you and plays into your Raja beta syndrome Yeah, she's a good mother Yeah, very nurturing Yeah, exactly, you define the typical Indian cool girl Which so many So many people I know Around me are like that You know, I played into that myself Because I remember I was dating this one person Couple of years ago And you know, he loved that about me He said this, he's like I'm not really quoting, it was along those lines He said, you know Sanjana, I love it that You know, you have the right amount of sanskar And you have the right amount of traditional, you know Sanjana, and I'm like Okay, really? Is that why we started this podcast With the sanskari thing Sanskari was a big thing in our relationship back then Because he really loved the fact that I was just the right amount of traditional That you know, when I would go to meet his parents I would be very, very respectful As if another person wouldn't be He's like, you know, of course You know, you behave a certain way in front of my parents You understand how to behave in front of the parents At the same time, you're like, oh you're so fun You're like a party girl And you have like all that whole nonsense, right So, I was also playing into the stereotype Of being a cool girl And I was playing into it like You know, by being a little quirky You know, so Oh, totally get that Any odd habits I have I would try to be a little Cute and quirky about it As if, wow, so cool This makes me cool One of the things that cool girls play into is They play into men's sexist jokes And I think They laugh about it with them Like it happened with me a few days back Or at least It's happening as As if I want to be a typical cool girl But I think it's so internalized inside me That that's how I respond So, before you, you know, go there I think, of course Playing into the cool girl is very different When it's in your personal life And in your professional life, it's very different And I think in professional life, it comes across as You know, you want to be like a non-confrontational Like a very sweet person You know, always Very agreeable Yeah, very agreeable One guy, you know him Was saying something very weird Along the lines of We're discussing something about salaries And he said that software engineers You know, especially nowadays After 4-5 years of experience In Bangalore, they earn 40-50 lakhs easily So, he looked at me Into my eyes and said We were a group of three I was the only girl You should marry a software engineer Then you won't have to do anything And I didn't know how to respond to this Yeah I didn't know whether to Laugh and just let it go But I ended up being a cool girl And saying, no, no Marriage is not for me Instead of telling him that It's not your place to comment Thank you for the comment in my life I don't need it And also, that is such a bad joke No, even if he doesn't realise There are sexist undertones to it The fact that people assume That I don't want No, in fact The other one followed it up By saying that If my wife was earning so much I would happily take care of the kid Yeah They undermine women's work so much And I don't know It was not really targeted at me It was just like a generic joke I think the comment It's not about the comment I just responded to it And the fact that it's bothering you My response is bothering me Of course I hear sexist comments Every day, all the time And I think a lot of women Sort of let it go And I'm not even saying That you have to fight Against every sexist comment See, I think everyone's different In their own way Yeah I think when I used to fight Against every sexist comment To play into the cool girl image As opposed to the angry girl image He's such a feminist At one point I was a little weirded out By saying that I'm a feminist The other day This guy who I don't like so much now He said, I wouldn't say I'm a feminist Are you? He looked at my haircut and said Are you one of those feminist types? Oh my god Then we got a big lecture So I went through that phase Do I want to be likeable? Or do I want to be complicit In my own dehumanization? And I don't want to be complicit in that I'd rather be unlikable Than to shut up And not give it back to people Because that also keeps on bothering you Yeah And I realize I'm okay with that Hate me all you want But I'm not going to take But of course I've made that decision People are going to come and say stuff to me I'm okay with giving it back to them I'm okay with them bitching About me behind my back I've developed a kind of thick skin right now So suppose this HR person Came and said this to me I'm 120% sure I wouldn't have said I don't believe in marriage I would've just been like First of all, you have no right to comment On all of these things in my personal life And second Just by the way, I'm earning Because I want to earn It's called financial independence Maybe look it up I don't know if I told you about this But this other friend of ours He also commented on my haircut So I have a very short boy cut hair Pixie cut haircut Let's not call it boy cut Let's call it pixie cut Because I like that much better He said that Looking at my haircut one day Doesn't this haircut remind you of that girl That girl he named Shraddha And I said who's Shraddha He's like don't you know The news, the guy The girl who got chopped off And put in the fridge by her boyfriend And then he asked me Do you also have a Muslim boyfriend? Oh my god This comment is so derogatory This comment is so bloody derogatory I'm not even joking It is And my response was Something along the lines of No no I don't have time for a boyfriend I'm very busy with the exam Some random shit I said And I tried to just laugh about it And crack some other joke I tried to be a cool girl basically Basically you didn't want Someone to you know You didn't want to confront someone Because you didn't want to come across as someone You know fighty or you know And also I think that If I do argue with somebody If I do give it back to them So as to say I'm always scared of Like the next confrontation They will give it back to me then Because of the backlash And that's very very true You know I don't think that I want to underplay that Because with all my Confrontational nonsense and everything I have been afraid of backlash as well And that's why I think it's important To pick your battles Like I probably wouldn't pick a battle With like a senior management At this stage of my career Yeah but if like And it depends on the comment as well For example this was just a colleague right It was just that Cancelled in my head No longer a friend with me And I try to avoid him at all times So that I don't venture into any Kind of those jokes again But the fact is that You playing into this Cool girl in a professional setting It is sort of bothering you right Yes yes it bothers me so much How sweet and complacent I become Like let it be Yeah I totally get that I don't get that There's a lot of pressure too Because women are always Sort of seen as nurturing And very understanding Empathetic creatures And men usually use that Oh women are so good Because they are empathetic And so compassionate That's their main argument That women are naturally different Yeah but I totally get that When men use that against you And you want to be compassionate And when you're thinking like that You know take all this Maybe it's fine It's just a one-off comment You know just want to make a big deal out of it And I think sometimes it's okay Not to make a big deal out of it But if it's a pattern It's definitely you have to talk about it And if it's a comment as derogatory As the one that colleagues said I think it's very important You know you have to rise above That whole cool girl attitude And you have to be like Be an angry girl for once Because everyone has their own demeanours And you can't be like Fight for rights But at the same time I do feel that women Need to support more women And it's not that I have to support you You have to support me very outrightly But just by speaking up against A sexist comment in your own vicinity That is also a way of I think my way of dealing with it Is saying something very cool girly At that time And then later on discussing it That was weird It will make me feel much better When you say yes That was derogatory I feel vindicated And I feel angry on your behalf There's one guy who told me Who made this comment about You preparing for certain exams And I think I still hate him Just because of that comment And today one of our colleagues Was quite surprised when both of us Were a little hostile I think I have this thing I feel angry on behalf of everyone Sometimes I'm like How dare this person make this comment Thank you I sometimes think that helps me I don't want to impose On anyone else But sometimes it can be A little isolating When you don't find the same support When someone says something to me And I don't find the same support elsewhere And I feel like what am I fighting for I just want to tell that It's not about expecting anything in return It's just my principle That I have to do this You can start with yourself And support other women And not do it outrightly It's just more about That comment pissed me off I'm gonna be upset about it It's not about you or any other woman It's just my principle In fact listening to you I feel like possibly You and I are not cool girls anymore We are unable to identify Our cool girl patterns And we dislike ourselves When we express those patterns So In a way Wow, full circle We started when I think we are cool girls So now I'm thinking We are not really cool girls I think we started on our journey Definitely, I don't think I'm actively playing into the part of cool girl Sometimes it might happen unconsciously It might happen in certain situations It's not about awareness It's more about being conscious about it Especially when you have As good friends as you are It's so easy to talk about it And understand your own patterns For me I never ever want to play into That whole manic pixie dream girl thing Or cool girl thing again Because I've been typecast Which reminds me The cool girl thing is Someone who is very suave Who doesn't have too much attitude And someone who is very Charming But not too flirty I don't know It's just like a Very weird combination And I'm done trying to be that combination Do you want me to read ahead About what Jillian actually thinks About cool girls? Okay, sure Go ahead Oh To people who Fall in love with a cool girl She says You are not dating a woman You are dating a woman Who has watched too many movies Written by social awkward men Who would like to believe This kind of woman exists And might kiss them The pop culture also tells us We were talking about A whole generation of Indian women Grew up watching Jabbi Matt And that whole geet is so cool And you want to be like geet But I'm not that loud And excited And extroverted I was very affected by her Cool persona Then her sad persona I think the idea was Especially in all Imtiaz Ali movies Or maybe all pop culture basically That eventually women Are the ones helping men Get out of their problems But yes One of the main features Of a cool girl Is being a cool man And taking him from a bad boy Oh my god She's the one who turns him into a sanskari Yes Dude I'm so done with that word sanskari And with that We come to the end Of our second episode Thank you for listening to us And be woke guys Don't be too sanskaris Bye Thank you
