episode 1

Jonathan Mozenter and Chris Huzo are excited about their podcast, "Unleash the Mystic." They share their personal experiences of transitioning from materialism to exploring the esoteric and mystic. They believe that these insights are valuable for everyone, especially during the current collective meta-crisis. They discuss the importance of integrating spiritual experiences in practical life and the transformative power of practices like meditation, energy work, and plant medicine. They also emphasize the significance of surrendering to synchronicity and trusting in divine guidance. Chris shares his journey from being in the military to becoming a shaman, and how it has helped him connect with and support veterans. Jonathan talks about the impact of ayahuasca on his spiritual journey and the validation it provided for his beliefs. Overall, they aim to inspire and guide others on their own mystical paths. Welcome to episode number one of Unleash the Mystic, Sacred Steps to Your Divinity. I'm Jonathan Mozenter. And I am Chris Huzo. Chris and I are really excited about this podcast because we have the unusual stories of, something we share in common, is of being kind of materialists, and life circumstances get throwing us into the esoteric and mystic and having it change our lives. And we both believe that these insights aren't just for us, they're for the collective. Absolutely. And we are at a time in the collective where we really need this stuff as a collective. So the more we can share it, the better. Absolutely, absolutely. I think we're at an amazing time. I know for a lot of people are really, really scared. A lot of people call it the meta-crisis, the meaning crisis. There's a lot of polarization. But also at the same time, the Internet's been around for 20, 25, 30 years, and we've all been learning stuff. And I know I've been combining a lot of cool things, and a lot of my friends have been combining cool things. So I think on the edges of the society, there's a lot of breakthroughs. And I'm foreseeing a wave of integration and synthesis that's going to really impact the collective. I'm really glad you brought up integration because a lot of people who are having experiences, whether meditations or plant medicine or you name it, dreams, they don't know what to do with it. Because we still live in a country where the demand of practicalities gets in the way of, hey, what do I do with all this new stuff I'm learning? Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. I think one thing that Chris and I really, our friendship has bonded on, is that life has kind of thrown us deep into working with plant medicines and meditation and energy work and other different esoteric practices. And I can at least for myself, I've been totally obsessed with it over the last 10 years, to the point where it's clear to me that this is part of what's being expressed through me, how to look at this complex landscape and get ahead of where the mainstream is at, so that now I can help play a leadership role and show how these different tools, when used intelligently, can really, really make transformation effortless, easy, faster than in the past. Jonathan, why don't you tell me about what your interpretation, definition of what the mystic is and being the mystic? That's a great question, Chris. Mystic to me means connecting to higher energies, like a higher power, or getting insights that kind of come to me that aren't already there, and novelty, and getting guided by higher powers. And that's something that I never thought was possible, and so I started meditating. What about you, Chris? Yeah, you know, I definitely agree with some of the things you said, the main one being getting guidance from a higher power. Lately, you know, I've been calling that spirit, like connecting to spirit. And even expanding on that further, like spirit is just us anyway, a higher consciousness. And there's many different ways of connecting to spirit. What are some of the ways that you found most useful? Well, there are many ways. I started off with doing Vajrayana Buddhism, which helped me quiet my mind. It also helped me change my identity. Like I used to think I was my thoughts and my stories, and that modality helped me connect to being just presence, the space, the ether. And something about not being so attached to everything and seeing things as open seemed to bring in some higher energies. Absolutely. I love what you said about not being attached to your mind or having a different relationship with your mind and a different relationship with your thoughts. I think that's super powerful, and I remember that practice with myself very well, and I also can attest to life after accomplishing that. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. After I started doing the meditations, I had what I call my first conscious transpersonal experience where I was just on Facebook, and at some point a voice came in and said, like, hey, somebody just posted a movie on there. You've got to watch that. And I remember, like, startled. Like, who the hell said that? I was the only one in my apartment at the time, and I was like, I don't know what the hell just happened. But I knew my meditation teacher was telling me stuff like that could happen, and I surrendered and watched this movie, which changed the direction of my life. So that was like my first kind of big experience. Do you have any experiences like that you'd like to share with the audience? First I want to know, what movie was it? It was Thrive, and Thrive is a movie. It's like a documentary suggesting that there's more than going on in the world that meets the eye, like gets into the banking system and how the government operates and, like, secret geometry and aliens, all kinds of topics that I really wasn't into at the time. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, it got me very exploratory. I wouldn't say it was – I mean, that's a good movie. I recommend it, but it changed the direction because it was high quality enough of a movie that I was like, could this be true? That guy seemed pretty smart and accomplished. Maybe I should check it out, and I did. And I found there was a lot of truth into some of the things he was pointing out, and it got me curious. It was going down the rabbit hole. Absolutely, and I can't wait until we talk more about that rabbit hole because that's a big topic that I get really passionate and playful with. But going back to synchronicity, yeah, like when you really surrender to knowing that you're going to get everything that you need exactly in the right time in your life, it really takes out, like, a lot of stress from, like, oh, am I in the right place? Am I doing the right thing? I think a lot of people get stuck in that place, like really being hard on themselves and it's just taking too long, and why do I keep taking one step forward and two steps back, and, you know, you just have to trust that wherever you're at is perfect and you're being guided all the time. Absolutely. That's one of the biggest differences for who I was, you know, back when I first started meditating in 2011 to where we are now, is I used to be an anxious guy who was very, I was in a little denial of my anxiety. I was planning everything out. I was worried about things, thinking how everything would play out. As you know, you've known me for a while, I'm kind of, I don't even have a home, I don't always know where I'm going, I get a lot of one-way tickets, and everything just magically kind of gets taken care of itself. Now, of course, there was a whole period in between where I went from one to the other, but now I know that playbook and how it's possible for other people, and I'm showing some of my clients. Yeah, it absolutely works. And something I just noticed, I didn't realize that, so you started this journey of yours in 2011? Yeah, yeah. No way. That's a roundup. We've discussed that before. I don't think we have. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, in 2011 is when I had, like, my big, like, whoa, something's going to change really quickly moment, and that's when I first met Ayahuasca. And the timing of that was perfect because I was in a really low place in my life where, like, I was depressed still, and I was coming out of a pretty gnarly addiction. You know, I just didn't know how to be with my feelings. I didn't know how to allow myself to feel. I didn't know how to not take it personally. Yeah, well, this is, you know, the first time we've talked to our audience. Why don't you tell them a little bit about, you know, the help that you understand who you were at that point in time. Oh, when I first met them? Yeah, in 2011. Yeah, maybe a little bit about your background. Oh, yeah. 2011 is actually a little bit after I moved to Boulder I had the intention of finishing grad school. I'm sorry, finishing undergrad and then going to grad school. I thought I wanted to be a therapist. I just knew I wanted to be of service to people, which is why I joined the military. We can get into that later on, but it is an interesting, funny story. So, yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the things that's really fascinating about you is you went really deep into another rabbit hole of the military. And not every shaman has a background in, you know, like CAA and NSA. So it's a total shift. It's pretty fascinating. It truly feels like a past life. It doesn't feel like it's in this life. And I'm really grateful that I did it because I'm really passionate about working with vets. And I love when the vets find me. And, like, we can build a rapport together to where, oh, I trust this guy versus some therapist that doesn't have any idea what they're going through and what they've been through and, like, they can just guess. Unless they're vets too, which sometimes is the case. Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned ayahuasca, and this is one of the things that kind of brought us together is medicines. And Chris is a shaman, and he served me ayahuasca. And I started ayahuasca in 2016, which is about five years after I started meditating. I just had the intuitive call to I just saw some videos and somebody said, you've got to do that. And ayahuasca changed my life. It really kind of took the things, the mystical things I was learning about Vajrayana Buddhism, that things aren't as material, and it gave me experiences that kind of validated that. I'm thinking I've got a funny story, an anecdote from one of my first ayahuasca journeys. Yeah, please. Vulnerability is always a big thing. When I was a little kid, I was teased a lot for crying, and then I made up a story that showing my feelings was bad, and I got really in my head and put up a shield of invincibility. And ayahuasca gave me an experience. Like, I was the second night, and I had to take a poop, and there was like an outhouse right by a giant circle. And I went to sit down to take a poop, and as soon as I dropped trowel, the door flung open so everyone could see me. I was like, oh, shit. And so I pulled up my pants a little bit and closed it, and then it opened again. And that happened like two or three more times. Yeah, exactly. And then eventually I pooped the door wide open, and I was like, f it. You know, I guess everyone could see me. It was kind of like making it sound like maybe vulnerability is okay. And I asked everybody else. Nobody else had a problem with that door. So I knew something was up. Yeah, you know, she only gives us exactly what she knows we need in the right moments, and the mind will hardly ever agree with that. Sometimes it does, but usually later on. So anyway, yeah, we will definitely talk a lot more about ayahuasca and the military and your past for sure. But just going back to, like, say you mentioned, like, kind of in that moment, like what she was teaching you, right? And you were able to listen. Yeah. And she gave me a very similar gift where the very first weekend I met her, she taught me that I'm not who I think I am because I thought I was just this worthless, depressed failure. And that's when, I know it sounds cliche because so many people, after they drink medicine for the first time, either want to share it with the world or they want to be shamans or facilitators. And, like, I literally had this moment where, like, we signed a contract where she's like, if you serve your brothers and sisters with me, I'll always take care of you. And that's always been the case. Always. From that moment on, like, just I always felt safe in the world. I knew that there would always be just enough. And I'm just curious, you've seen, like, a lot of people, you know, you've served a lot of medicine and stuff. And have you noticed that everybody just instantly gets something out of it or some people, like, are getting more out of it than others? Because I know a lot of people are doing ayahuasca and other psychedelics, and at least I'm noticing people having a wide range of experiences. Absolutely. You know, first of all, like, no two journeys are the same. And, you know, it's part of the screening process. Like, when I screen people, if they're not coming because they genuinely feel called, then I typically veer them in a different direction because, like, you know, this might not be for you right now. You know, if somebody says, oh, my wife's making me come or they're going to divorce me, it's like, that's definitely a red flag. You know, so that screening process is really important. And then I always try to, you know, really get through to people so they can understand that you have to let her lead the dance. And, you know, that's really hard to do for the first. Everybody's different, but just to have some kind of trust, it takes time because the mind is trying to protect all the time. And the first time has no frame of reference. Yes, yeah. First off, you do a really great job of screening, I remember. Our first chat, and I felt like really trusting. And not everybody does that. And I also work with clients with psychedelics, and I find that the people who really do well have a really clear intention and are willing to be vulnerable. I think you said something so important about willing to surrender. Even if you have some idea of what you're going for, which I think is good, I think it helps you self-aware and direct the energy. But once you do it, I can tell you every time I ever did medicine, I had an idea of, like, what it would be like, and it was never like that. It always taught me in a unique way, and eventually I gave up even trying to predict it. It's way smarter than us. Exactly. I'll tell people, I'll say, hey, come with one intention, not 15 minutes of intention, and also come with the knowing that you might not get your intention and be okay with that, because that's also part of the trust, too. When we trust, whether it's to plant medicine, whether it's to our higher selves, whether it's to that infinite divine guidance that's always coming through, that's how we become the mystic, and that is teaching us to connect to whatever you want to label it, divine, spirit, God. But it's accessible all the time, and it doesn't need to be meditated into. It doesn't need to be journeyed into. Yeah, I mean, I was, as Chris knows, I went really hardcore with psychedelics. I was a hardcore psychonaut from 2016 until, like, last year, and then the medicine kind of said, hey, John, you don't need to do it anymore. You have the connection without it, and I even gave whatever psychedelics I had left to Chris. And it's true. You don't need them. I feel like the psychedelics are a bridge technology, an important bridge technology that we need right now to get our consciousness upleveled so that we can make this jump, move beyond this polarization and see the new perspectives of the new reality, the peaceful, abundant reality that's coming. But also, we're not meant to do them all the time. Right. And the plants don't want us to be stuck on them. The plants show us. In my own vocabulary, the way I sit with people and coach people, I always say the plants want to show us home, which is just, in the moment, divine peacefulness. Yeah. You know, like, it's almost like the observer of the observer. No matter what's happening, there's always peace. And maybe that is just the observer. But I feel like even the observer can sometimes be hijacked by ego, very unconsciously, because the ego is so slippery. Yeah. Actually, I'd love to talk a little bit about our own definitions about divinity and ego as we've gone down this path. I know one of the things that we really bond on is we really have these deep metaphysical talks and these distinctions, and I always feel like we have the most generative conversations. And I feel like a lot of people could benefit on that. So I was just curious, how has your perspective on divinity and ego changed over time? Where are you at now? And maybe you could get a little bit into that. Yeah, that's a fun question, especially the one that changes over time. You know, when I'm really in flow, I don't allow myself to get too attached to any belief system, because I know that it almost always changes. And that doesn't mean that I don't get passionate about things. And people confuse passion with attachment, and I totally understand that. But that sense of calmness way in the background is always present. And then how it shows up externally in a human can be interpreted in many different ways. But back to the original question, you know, it's always important just to allow yourself to evolve, because if you get hooked on, like, oh, this is me and this is my belief system, then you're limiting yourself from growing and expanding past that place. And that's not what we want to do. We want to keep growing. We want to learn all the time. We learn until we die. No such thing as having it all figured out. Yeah. I love what you just said. I think it's probably one of the most important lessons. If I had to reduce what I learned from Vajrayana Buddhism is that it's a closed system of openness. The things like don't reify, don't get attached, is kind of telling us, like, to stay open, because the existence keeps revealing itself to itself all by itself. Now, also, I do believe that it's okay. It's more than okay. We should take perspectives on things and test them out. And it's okay to have a strong perspective on something, but also if there is countering evidence coming in, then we should stay open to that. So, to me, that's, like, the healthy balance. Absolutely. It's okay to collect data, and data is really—I'm playful with science. Like, I'm really fun with it. And in a way, that's my way of hot-knifing and poking scientists and data collectors that are really attached to, like, there's nothing ever changing, and I think it's fun. I think just human beings trying to figure things out is really—it's fun. It's experience learning. Yeah. But, like, you know, when we talk about higher self, divinity, it already knows everything, and there's nothing to know. And also, back to divinity, you asked me what my interpretation of divinity is. It's really simple. Everybody's going to realize that Chris is a really simple guy. I like to keep things really simple, and we'll come back to that, too. But, yeah, like, when we're acting in our consciousness, like, sometimes I like to call it in our Christ consciousness, where it's just like, it's just, oh, I am, I am. And when I can look at you as me, and when I can look at anybody else on this planet as me, as the I am, it's almost hard just not to be in love with it all. And I think that's divinity. Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's exactly what in Vajrayana Buddhism talks about, like, being in this natural state where you can identify as the observer in the field, and everything is a present, it's a gift. But, you know, why doesn't everybody experience it that way? Well, one, they don't have that kind of meditative state training, but also what I discovered within myself, because even after taking an eight-day class with my teacher, Daniel Brown was my main teacher, and his protege was there, John Churchill was my coach, you know, I wasn't able to maintain that state all the time. But I found out that there was a lot of oscillation between occasionally, like in the beginning it was only once in a while I'd be able to achieve this kind of peaceful state, and I would go back to the old way of being. And it took this journey over the last, you know, since 2011, just baby-stepping myself forward until I could be able to stabilize this step. And that's what I'm passionate about. It's completely changed my life. It's really calm and cool and peaceful, and see everything as a gift no matter what's happening. It doesn't mean that, quote-unquote, negative things, I don't stub my toe, or somebody doesn't show up, or something like that kind of stuff happens, but my relationship to it is like, oh, that too is divine timing, and that is another way for me to, you know, see within it for me. Every moment is an opportunity to learn and grow. It is. It really is, right? Every single moment is an opportunity to expand and stretch. And, you know, the more we allow ourselves to do that, the closer we get to becoming the mystic. Yes. And the Baby Steps is absolutely right. And, you know, it's much easier to be okay with the Baby Steps if we could be really gentle and soft with ourselves. And that's really hard because this, I feel like we're almost conditioned to be really rigid and serious about, like, everything, and to include school, and then career, and then, you know, parenting, and who knows what else. Like, if we're athletes, where that may serve a purpose early on in our lives, like to get us through school, to help us study, to help, like, discipline, but I think once we make this shift into the journey to the mystic, it's really important to be soft and gentle because rigidity is not going to help because we can't push ourselves faster than how long we already know it's going to take. I think this is great. I'd love to talk a little bit, your point and my point, and kind of just deepen on this thing about why humans aren't always in this mystical state all the time. And this is my understanding. I want to hear Chris's opinion on this afterwards. What I've come to discover, like the Buddhists call it, like, operating beyond your, like, sense of self. And what I cover, what that really means is that when we, when little children are told they're wrong or bad, those first, some emotions are at certain intensity levels, they make so wrong that they will, they can't be with it. And they're, like, almost a part of the survival. It's like, hey, it's not your time. It almost feels like death, like psychic death. And they will create a defense pattern that they will use to help them manage that stress. And we fuse our identity with that defense pattern. And that defense pattern only allows us to feel so much. It cuts off parts of life, and it's a little bit more serious. It's also like a, the defense is like a place of lack, so we want to feel better. It's just trying to protect us, right? Yeah, it's just trying to protect us. It's such a beauty. It's just trying to protect us because as little children, we need that. You know, it's like we need to be protected. Otherwise, I don't, I think we would just collapse. Yeah. Like, totally just collapse. But I want, what, I don't think humans know this. I don't, I think this is a species level issue that if we learn this particular lesson as a species, and we learn to operate beyond our defense patterns and get into this more mystical state, it'll change the world. I mean, absolutely. And while I would love to wave both of our magic wands and be like, so be it right now. It's going to be, collective is on a baby step process too, right? Yeah. The more people that do the individual work, they plant seeds, and then, you know, people, friends and family ask them and say, what's different? Like, there's something here all the time about first time journeyers, medicine journeyers, like, oh, my God. Like, I got home, and my wife says I'm a different person. My husband says I'm a different person. My parents, you know, all my family and my friends are like, what the hell happened to you? And you feel totally different. And then they plant all those seeds, and then a lot of those seeds do come after they've been watered. Not all of them, but they do. And this is also going to be the topic of a lot of shows, I think. It's like why we're not there yet. There's so many factors, and none of them are coincidence. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we're here, you know, this first episode, we're here to help people get where we're about. And this topic we're talking about right now is at the center of it, is how do we do this as a species? How do we do this individually and collectively? I think there are people already doing it individually, but what if we start organizing together? There are people doing intentional communities. I'm hanging out a lot in Costa Rica and Mexico and Boulder. There's a lot of people excited about it, and we're starting to organize. And using both old techniques, like old meditation things, plant medicines, but, like, new things. Like I'm into this thing called, like, epi-energetics, this ecological use of energy and information. And Chris and I both love to stack different tools together to make this acceleration and transformation go faster. I mean, absolutely. Even though I said I like simple, I am still a big fan of stacking tools. And I also have a big, you know, understanding of just because a certain tool worked for me, it worked for you, doesn't mean it's going to work for anybody else. You know? And that's the beauty of just, like, it's all perfect. You know? It's like everybody's journey is their own. And what I love to do, and I think I know what you love to do, too, is just, you know, assist people back home. Right? Because we know what it feels like to be back home. And we know that that's a much juicier life. You know? It's a much yummier life when we're in that, oh, why get stressed about anything? Why label anything right or wrong? Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think I love what you said, that there's no right way to do this and that there's a lot of different paths. And I think that's one of this openness about us. A lot of people are in a transformation and have, like, a very rigid approach. And I do think there are some meta patterns that are worth noting and mentioning and sharing of that. And maybe it's worth mentioning a few of those. I want our audience to take away some things that they can use for theirs. So one of the things I think both of us agree on is baby steps. And I would say it can be scary to go into the areas of pain and suffering. But I can tell you, like, that was, you know, I was nervous at first, like, you know, doing ayahuasca, getting really shaky in the beginning, and then allowing it to surrender and showing me different things and even feeling old pains. It almost, like, builds up like a muscle. Like, first it's really scary, but then you kind of get used to the rhythms of it, and then it gets easier. So for people who are, like, scared and worried, for veterans, like Chris and I, I'm telling you, it helps to have guides. I had all kinds of guides and teachers, and now I feel, you know, want to give that back to people, and I have all this wealth of experience. Yeah, I agree with it's really important to always have guides. You know, a lot of people go into medicine places alone. And while I'm not saying that's not okay, like, especially more experienced people can handle that space, but there is something about knowing, whether it's way far back in the mind that's like, oh, I don't have to hold my shit together. Somebody's got that for me. Like, I could always go into that next step of stretching into that, like, whoa, I don't know if I want to go here or not. And if I'm all alone, it's much more challenging than if I know somebody's got my back, and they're going to hold me if I want them to hold me. They're going to pat my head if I want them to, you know, or they're just going to give me reinforcing words. And, you know, I think that's really beautiful. And one thing I also wanted to hit on before I forget is, you know, all these tools are steps toward becoming the mystic. And once we're the mystic, we know what we need. We trust our intuition. Our intuition always sends us to either the next right teacher, the next right book, the next right podcast. You know, that's the mystic's power. Absolutely. And I think one of the most important things about people who are new to this but are curious is the integration piece. Like, I have, like, a really deep background in psychology. I haven't really talked about my background too much, but not only did I study Vajrayana Buddhism, which is, like, probably the most elaborate of understanding the mind that I've noticed, but I've also studied with transpersonal psychologist Andy Han, and he's got a lot of cool distinctions. He's, like, a, you know, a PsyD, and he's got life-centered therapy as part of what I did. I studied organizational development, which also involves a lot of psychology. My parents were social workers. But it really helps with integration to really understand the mind and how the mind works and how these psychedelic experiences, like, it'll help you understand, like, not only what they meant or, like, what stage. Like, sometimes it could seem like your intention wasn't met, but maybe it was, you know, in a way that you weren't really ready to understand. Yeah, that's really well said about integration. And one thing that I will add to that is integration is different for everybody. Again, what works for me might not work for you. What works for you might not work for me. And it's really important to, like, not get frustrated if somebody's technique that is being taught to you, like, doesn't feel like it resonates with you because there's always a lot of different ways. So, again, this is part of the baby steps. Like, if it's the first thing you try and it doesn't work, don't get, like, down on yourself and don't get frustrated. Be really gentle with yourself. And for me, integration, here's the simple part. What tools, techniques, changes in thoughts can you take into your everyday life that was shown to you, that was given to you by one of the tools, whether meditation, energy work, ayahuasca, mushrooms, right? There's no magic pills and magic wands. That's up to us to actually incorporate into our lives, and they're always going to show us things. Like, they're going to show us our blind spots. They're going to show us things we need to do to heal, you know, and then that could do it for us. So I think that's really important to keep in mind. Exactly. And I also want to talk a little bit about energy work, psychedelics, and defense patterns because one of the reasons that these psychedelics and altered states and meditation, they help us bypass these defense patterns, which we have, they're really defense patterns are programs that we made to stop or to not experience something or experience different levels, and these psychedelics are just energy, and they take us up into places that allow us to have the experiences that we couldn't have in ordinary circumstances. I like to say they give us windows where we're totally out of our mind, and then we have that beautiful blessing of, like, oh, I'm just in my heart, and I'm just in my intuition. I'm just in my connection for, like, a three- to five-hour window. That's so well said. Now, when you say the mind, like, would you say associated with the particular part of the mind is the defense patterns? Absolutely. And, you know, those defense patterns, like, oh, my God, I don't trust what's happening because I can't control this. The mind knows that when it takes a medicine, it's out of control. It does it like that, as we all know. One of the things that I've really learned from the Buddhists is this idea of reference points, and we have this habit of constantly referencing the past and our traumas, and the psychedelics and the meditations and energy work can allow us to reference new points. We could reference the future or a higher energy. My teacher, Donny Epstein, has this phrase about bound energy and unbound, and bound is just anything that has a form, so any thought, feeling, expression, anything you can see. So, like, most of the time, most people are referencing bound interpretations of life to their current things, and that's why they're having the same problems over and over again. But if you get this pure energy, this unbound energy, which the psychedelics or the breath work or the energy work or the meditation that can give you, can give you more creativity, more novelty, and that's what the mystic is using is more of this unbound energy. Exactly. Yeah, exactly right. I totally agree with that. So, I was thinking, let's maybe chat a little bit about what our vision is for this podcast, you know, what we want people to get to just from the tools that we have to offer. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a perfect segue because we have all these tools that bring in these higher energies, the mystical energy, the unbound energy, and I think that's the heart of it is we have novel approaches. We're both super experimental and creative, and that's going to be a lot about what this show is about. It's about things we've tried that have worked and also bringing on other guests who are also doing innovative things in this space. Exactly. We hope to have some amazing guests, and I'm sure we're going to, and I'm really looking forward to that because all that is is just more tools, more of our fellow brothers and sisters, like, sharing what worked for them, right? And we never know who else that's going to work for. You know, there's going to be plenty of listeners that think it's going to work for them. There's going to be plenty that they're not going to work for, and I think that's really beautiful. I think one of the things that I love about Chris and I's dialogues and discussions is that we bring these energies, these higher energies into so many topics like relationships, metaphysics. It's not just about getting more into our intuition and resolving our shadow work. We really see these tools to really help humanity and almost every world, problem-solving, conflict resolution. Absolutely. You know, when people are ready, these tools are going to be the reason why big changes occur in their life. Do you have anything else you want to add about, like, visions for the podcast? Absolutely. I think the most important thing is I'm here, I think both of us are here for a purpose, and so everything we're doing is how do we bring more peace, world peace, individual peace, and multidimensional abundance to the planet. So there is a goal and a purpose. We're not just doing psychedelics for the heck of it. We're doing it for growth and for our children and for our future generations. So that's a really important point for me. Absolutely, and I love the part about, like, we're doing it for our future generations because I'm really passionate about collective shadow, as you know, and I think I became even more passionate about it when my daughter came into this world almost three years ago because I think a lot about now what kind of world are we leaving our kids? And I know a lot of generations have thought this. I'm not the first. But now it feels even more crucial than ever for a lot of different reasons that I won't get into now, but we'll have a lot of fun talking about this stuff in the future podcast about, like, we need to come together and meet our individual shadows so then we could do it collectively. Well, I so agree with that, and I think there's mirrors. And one of the things that the psychedelics have done for me is to take new perspectives on the collective shadow. I used to be just really angry and feel like a victim and infuriated, but over time I'm starting to come up and play with a new idea that I'm curious what you think and what the world thinks is what if the collective shadow, what if in a younger version of ourselves as a species, we ask for, like, kings and queens to rule over us and they just think it's their job? And we need to just like I realized with my individual shadow, I have to, like, pick a higher operating system to move beyond it. I think we need to co-create a better operating system so that we can move over to it as we're letting go of the current operating systems. Totally. The current operating system doesn't seem to really have anybody's interest in mind except for the top 1% or 0.1%. And, you know, yes, I get what you're saying about we needed people to govern us, but I think we are almost to the point now where I don't even call it that. I call it, like, we're giving away our power. You know, it's like what is with this? I already know the answer to that. It's fear. Like, why does big sections of humanity almost, like, ask to be subjugated? And it's because they don't want to come up with their own beliefs on their own. They don't want to be, like, maybe they don't have the time. Maybe they're too distracted. So they're actually, like, yes, government, tell me what to think. Tell me what to do. Tell me how to take care of myself, right? Exactly. And maybe just even naming collective shadow. Just, I mean, the ongoing problem of how much influence the big banks, the military-industrial complex, the corporations, they just dominate the laws and there's so much injustice and the inequalities. You know, all the numbers kind of prove it. And I feel like the newspapers really don't. We're always focused in this left-right kind of yelling at each other. We're not really going after the core issues, the root cause of everything. And that's where we really want to have the conversations to address those elephants in the room, like, head-on with practical solutions. Totally, totally. Yeah, a practical solution is important because getting emotional and using violence against this is not going to work, right? We really need to come together and stop allowing ourselves to be separated with, like, nonsense, right? I mean, if you honestly don't think that the military-industrial complex and big corporations and big pharmaceutical companies own and create policy in this country, this podcast is not going to be for you. And I love you, it's just not going to be for you. Yeah, I mean, I think Chris and I strongly agree that there's just undue influence of certain sectors and we're both completely passionate about taking our power back as a species and having more influence from the bottoms up and not just from the top down. So we're 100% aligned on that for sure. Like, super motivated to guide who's ready into reclaiming your divinity. I call it divine shine. That's the name of my coaching practice. Like, come back to home. Live in your divine shine. Don't have any more fear. You know, no longer vibrating at a low vibration. Like, start to vibrate higher because the higher we vibrate, the easier it is to connect to that place that we already mentioned with less and less effort. I want to talk a little bit about this from maybe a controversial perspective on life. This show is about, like, divinity and this is my personal story of life that we're all just the ultimate reality talking to ourselves and know what it means to be alive. And this is kind of at least how it unfolds in this dream. I kind of see reality as, like, we're all kooky character in a god dream. And I do think the oligarchs, it's time that we outgrow them. But I also recognize they're also us. They're also part of us. And my mission is to bring us all together. And so I don't feel – I feel like those solutions are there and I'm willing to work with everybody. Yeah, well, everybody who's ready. Yeah, everyone's ready. You know, I really love to focus on, you know, we all have our own magic and it's not for everybody. And that's one thing that, you know, Mamacita Ayahuasca told me very, you know, in the beginning of my journey, especially when I started to work with people, that was a part of that trust thing, I'll take care of you thing, where it's like, look, don't worry about who's coming to you because the people who are ready for your container and want my container will find me. And the people that want a different container will find that container. And the people that want a different teacher will find that teacher. And, yeah, you know, it's been a blessing for me because I've been lucky. I've had to do very little when it comes to, like, expanding my business to this point. And that's all good. I think that's another place that Chris and I really thrive on together is there's a variety. I've had the pleasure of working with a whole bunch of different teachers from different meditation teachers, transpersonal psychologists, energy teachers, and we both believe that there's not one right path. I actually use a lot of archetypes in my life with my clients, like the Enneagram or something called the Five Personality Patterns, and I feel like different types need different types of solutions. Also, I want to just mention quickly about parts and relationships because we were talking, I want to get into, like, relationships and different kinds of relationships. A lot of people think about relationships, they just think, oh, a relationship with a romantic partner. Now, Chris and I both believe that's, like, a fundamental primary thing. When I talk about relationships, I'm talking about our relationship with God, our relationship with our different parts, with our coworkers, and really life is about relationships. So we're going to talk a lot about relationships of all kinds. Absolutely. I'm also super passionate about that, especially intimate relationships with our partners. You know, I really believe that once the collective heals the masculine and the feminine wounds and the attachment styles, that humanity will become much more empowered, and that will really be a stepping stone toward more of the collective vibrating at a higher frequency. I think that's what it's going to take to, like, change the current system that doesn't serve any of us, that only serves the elites, the wealthy. I agree. I think there's something about a romantic relationship that brings a real intimacy where a partner is with you all the time and can see things about you, and if those couples can develop systems of communication and feedback where they're helping each other grow, that's really going to be optimal. I'm going to take that another step. I see intentional communities where people coming together with the intention of growing is another expression of that. I'm spending a lot of time in Costa Rica. There's a bunch of intentional communities down there and in Mexico, and so that's another area I'm really passionate about is how do we get communities, the systems of people to work well together. I've studied organizational development, which is just a set of protocols for helping people work well together. That's all it is. Yeah, and I think it's really important to, when you go into an intentional community, you know, with intention of creation, that it's really important to make sure that all the people in that community are kind of vibrating at the same frequency because all it takes is one person who's not, and then it can just end in a way that, you know, is unfavorable. Yeah, I mean, I would say if you're looking to start an intentional community, I would start off with, like, having a vision and a mission that glues everyone together, and then, like, who do you want? Who are the people that you want to come in and get protocols for accepting and also, like, removing people and make that very clear in the bylaws, like, right from the start. I mean, absolutely, and humanity can really be a playful shit show sometimes. You know, if there's unchecked egos, and, you know, I mean, I see this just in everyday life, and people who I kind of, you know, even if I love them, don't want them in my life anymore because they're not vibing at the same frequency, and I think it's really important to surround ourselves with people that vibe at same or similar frequencies just because that also encourages us to keep expanding and stretching and growing versus people who, if we surround ourselves, you know, with people that don't do that, then it's just like, oh, I might not be encouraged to keep on my own path. Yeah, exactly. I also want to talk about conflict resolution. I think conflict resolution is one of the most important tools. Like, if somebody came up to me and said, like, all right, Sean, there's a lot of complicated problems in the world, you know, we're never going to figure it out. I'm like, what if, as a species, we got really good at resolving conflict? And I think that, like, there are new ways using actually this thing that Chris and I have been talking about, using these new tools, energy work, psychedelics, breath work, to reach to higher states. What if we make energy contracts with each person? We're not going to resolve our conflict. Like, my last relationship, we made a rule. If either of us are, like, energy poor, energy low neutral, if we weren't in a high energy together, we weren't going to talk about something hard. We're just like, we'll table that till later because we know it's not going to go anywhere. So I do believe resolving conflict is something we'll be talking about a lot. Totally. Hopefully, we can influence and guide people into resolving conflict within themselves because that can't be skipped, right? And once all the internal conflict is resolved and we're friends with, you know, all the protectors, the ones that judge because they're afraid of what's going on internally, like the ones that label, the ones that scold, the ones that shut down, right? It's like all these protectors, they need to be met and they need to be met with openness and love. And if they need more tools than that, great. Sometimes openness and love is all they need. You know, like that little kid that never got that and had to, he or she had to, like, you know, retreat to their room and feel everything all alone and by themselves and no support. So it's like these protectors, they want to feel like they have support. And I am really excited into talking about that in future podcasts and hopefully giving a lot of our listeners just beautiful tools to work with. I just totally love that. Parts work, parts work, parts work. Like that's what I think most of the mainstream doesn't really know is that all their parts are fused together. At least I didn't know that until I started really getting into meditation and I started to like really seeing what's going on in my own mind. There are all these voices kind of fighting with each other and I didn't realize that. But as I was able to identify as a part of me that's just watching, then I was able to see what's happening and not attached. There's this three-part metaphysics. I don't remember when I talked about metaphysics because all these tools help us see subtly, the more subtle parts of life. So there's just this idea of fusion, differentiation, integration. And this is all about the parts work. We all get this place where everything is fused together and then we start to notice this new part. And we're like, what are we going to do with that? People tend to get, when a new part comes out, whether it's in the external or the internal, people tend to take really polarized views like this is the worst thing ever, this is the best thing ever and takes some time before we integrate it. I noticed there was a podcast that came out on Joe Rogan about Terrence Howard and I haven't even watched it yet. It's just hilarious. Some of my friends are saying this is the greatest thing ever and some people are just saying this guy is crazy and I'm sure it's somewhere in between. But it's just so funny the human tendencies to go to such polls at first. It's hilarious. It is cute and there's something really safe about going to those polls because that's what we think is known, what we've been taught. Whether it's grade school, middle school, high school, undergrad, grad school, Ph.D., there's a part of the mind that wants to get really attached to what it invested a lot of time in. And I think that's the biggest resistance into what you kind of mentioned. By the way, you do need to listen to that podcast because I think he's brilliant. I think a lot of people are just judging him because he's an actor. Again, judgment, right? I think he challenges a lot of dogma. Exactly. We need more of that. We need people to challenge dogma because dogma, again, it's a box. It's like if we don't allow ourselves to become unattached to belief systems, then our beliefs become our prisons. And that's a painful place to be typically. That's going to cause a lot of suffering when we're trapped in a belief that we refuse to come out of. And I see it in a lot of places. I see it in medicine, right? Typically, older doctors who are just really attached to what they learned in med school and they don't want to let it go. And, you know, it's sad because they're not being of greatest service to their clients. Absolutely, yeah. Patience. I'm getting to also – Can I pause it? That's going to be a little distracting.