Mum 50s & beyond

Life in the early 50s was enjoyable and filled with joy. Being a grandmother to Ben was amazing, and being present for his birth was special. Family gatherings and weekly catch-ups were cherished, and spending time with all four grandchildren was fun. Challenges arose with the health issues of Nathan, but overall, the grandchildren brought happiness and love to their lives. Nico was a bundle of joy, and Nathan's resilience through his health struggles made him an amazing person. Mum, thank you for being here with me. My pleasure. Continuing our conversation over the last couple of days. So we get to the point where I'm at university, so you're in your late 40s, in your 50s. Paint a picture about day-to-day life here. It obviously has probably a different feel to the previous decade where I was in high school and the girls laughed and what happened. But yeah, paint a picture of life in your early 50s on a university or just started working. Well, no, it started to become pretty easy and a lot of joy. First of all, you had to realise that you're a free agent, you were studying and you were enjoying your studies and you were, once again, very focused on that. You had a good social life, you had good friends, so that was good. And then, of course, Ben was born when I was 50, I became a grandmother and that was just amazing. And I had a lot of importance to Ben when he was little. Melanie got quite sick with mastitis and struggled a little bit with that. And so I spent a lot of time, I was still working, but any spare time I had, I spent with Ben, looking after him and helping them out. And how was it like to be a grandmother when Ben was born? How did that feel? It was amazing. It was very special as well, because when Mel, I was at school, I was at Devania then, and we had a PD, professional development, and I got a phone call from Mel to say, I'm starting contractions and Penn's way out is a never-never somewhere. So I said, look, leave it, I'll come, I'll be there. So I got her to hospital, Archibald and Gary, so that was handy. And so I was with her doing support and let him know, so Ken knew that he came straight away. But it was, he was, our other dad was still with, so. But by the time Ken arrived, Mel, the baby, the birth was imminent. And I said to Ken, Ken walked in, I said, oh, you're here, that's great, I'm so glad you got here in time, I'll leave you. And he said, no, Ben, if you've done the hard job, you stay here too. So I was able to be in the room when Ben was born and it was just fantastic. And I was very grateful that Ken felt enough of me to allow that to happen, so that was just lovely. Yeah, so I was there right from the very minute he was born. And the funny part about that was that I had my camera and I took photos, a video, I think, of when he would, you know, washing him and doing all that and then holding Mel's arm. And I missed the men and I went back to school and I was into technology, as you know. So we were at the PD and I said, well, before we finish, let's have a look at my newgram. So I just had, I think, tap on the big screen and they still remember that. Yeah, so it was very special to them as well as to me. So that was good and that was a lovely time. And also 12 months later, was it 12 months later or could it be even 19 first? Yes. So that was totally different, again, from my perspective because I've never had any relations in, I had a flat right at the very beginning, but she went to Albany, of course, so I hadn't had any relations in Perth. So it was really that special that Nana came and she loved her unit straight away. She bonded with all her neighbours, she had a pretty good social life again, which was a relief to me too because I didn't want this sort of encompassing relationship when I've never had that, you know. Nana was still young and doing stuff, you know. Yeah. So that worked out quite nicely and she was still driving and still independent and, you know, had quickly formed a nice social group of friends down there. Yes. And she still says to this day, they were the happiest, not happiest, but they were very happy 20 years that she had these, so that was very special. Yeah. So my life, once again, became very full, wasn't it? It was short, you know, from you doing year 12 to, you know, that happening. So yeah, it was, but it was all good. And then Jade came along long after. About two and a half years later, yeah. So Jade was, Ben was some, he wasn't finicky, but he wasn't a sleeper. Right. So I just take Ben out and let him sleep, you know, and things like that. So I had quite a bit of input put into him. With Jade, I still took Ben out because Jade was a sleeper. And so I could take Ben and we all could have a sleep while Jade was sleeping, but I still had a lot to do with it because, you know, she was just the most adorable, adorable baby. She was placid, she was, everything slept, you know, she was so, so good. Yeah, so that was all very special as well. Plus we went on several holidays, I think Dad and I went to Italy during that time. We had that, that was a great holiday. We did a lot of trapping in our 50s. That was, yeah, so it was a very special time. Yeah, life was pretty good once again. Jen got married, you graduated and left home. Yes, yes. And so how do you think you and Dad changed during that period? Like how were you different in your 50s as grandparents earlier on? How would you describe your own evolution? I think being a grandparent with Jade's granddad. Yes, I think he became more mature in his approach to life. Yes. Up until then, he was still what you would term a party animal, you know, but I think, yeah, that sort of, he adored the grandchildren as well. We adored our children, but with your grandchildren, it's all keener responsibility. So you can enjoy them without the worry. We still had a tiny bit of worry, but you don't have the day-to-day feelings with them. And so that was very special, having grandkids. And so my memory is that pretty much from the time Ben was born, we had a little bit of a family habit or routine where we meet once a week and, you know, have morning tea or sometimes lunch, afternoon tea, swim in the pool if it was summer. What did those catch-ups and the family get together mean to you? Really, to be perfectly honest, that happened until just a few years ago. We had a lunch break. But that was amazing. That was just to have the whole family gathering around once a week, knowing what was going to happen on a Sunday, either for lunch or afternoon tea or morning tea. And of course, Nan was here, so that was the main added. So Nan could have input into the family. Yeah. So that was really special, the barbie for the Sunday, the sausage sizzles. Yeah. So that was good. And I think the kids loved it as well. I think it was very special. And because you were always great with the kids. You know, you were always playing basketball, kicking the footy out the front across the road or swimming, walking around with them in the pool. So yeah, that was such a good time. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was very special. From my point of view, I loved that part of the week. Like just knowing for two or three hours once a week, we'd all get together. And the kids make it so much fun, don't they? Yeah. That's what. Yeah, it was. It was. It's a lot of fun. And then of course, Nathan and Nico. Yeah. And so yes, so then Jen had Nathan. And what was that like for you as the grandma? Nathan was, that was very challenging because for Jenny and for Jason and consequently for us because Nathan was such a sick little boy. And it was sort of came out of the blue. It was very challenging, but he was beautiful. And I spent a lot of time with Jen at that time as well. I used to take him out in the car or we'd go for drives. All four grandchildren loved the bin truck. So we had to call it the bin truck. I remember Ben did that. He used to go drive around where Nathan lived following the bin truck. Because he loved the bin truck. So all four of them loved the fricking bin truck. But yeah, I spent quite a bit of time with Jen at that time. Because Jason was obviously working. Yeah. Yeah. And then their marriage split up. So I think- But that was after Nico? No, before, to start off with. Oh, okay. Yeah, they had a, yeah. So Jenny stayed with us at that time. So we had Nathan living with us. And then they got back together. They had Nico. Yeah. But the damage had been done. Right. Yeah, so yeah. But that was a difficult time because Nathan, Nico was a baby. So just sort of went over his head. But Nathan struggled when his dad left the second time because he was a toddler. And never trying to work something out. She had parenting and all that sort of thing. Yeah, it was quite difficult for them. But it's quite difficult for Jenny. It was awful watching my baby going through that difficult time. Yeah. Yeah. But the kids, because that impacted on her. The fact that Nathan struggled so much with that. But anyhow, it's all worked out physically. Yeah. Well, I think they worked it out in the end. They did. And it was been a great childhood for her. Oh, amazing. Yeah, yeah. It was a happy ending. It was worked out well. And credit to them, their focus was on those children. And they worked co-parenting out. Yes. So, yes. What do you remember about Nico when he was born and when he was a little boy? Nico was like, he was always a bundle of joy. It was so easy after Nathan had been... And not through Nathan's fault. Nathan as a baby was fine. It was his health issues that caused so many problems. But Nico was good. He was always out there climbing trees. And it was like his mother was when she was a baby and a toddler. Yes, he was good. He was a bundle of life and a bundle of joy. And Nathan was, after he got through the difficult part of his life, he was always pretty easy. Although that caused issues right through school because... Prior to school, because he still had those enormous allergies. Yes. And he really couldn't go to birthday parties. So it impacted a lot on his primary school years. But I think to a certain extent, it just made him into such a resilient human being. He's one of the most resilient people I know, especially for a 17-year-old. Most 17-year-olds aren't resilient like he is. And he's an amazing human being. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I enjoyed seeing all the grandkids interact with each other. And Jade, the way she would look after Nic and Nathan. Follow them. Yeah. That was one of the... Yeah, when they used to build cubbies down in the games room and they can leap out. Yeah, I remember taking them all to the hoovies one time and I didn't have to do anything because Jade would just look after the boys and I was just there as the fourth wheel. Yeah. But yeah, that was nice. I think another part, something I've learned from you and Dad that I think you just do so well is friendships. You have a lot of lifelong friendships. And so talk to me about what friendship means to you. Why do you think you and Dad were so popular and were able to have these friendships that lasted a lifetime? I don't know. Maybe it's the culture person in me that made... Because I made friends a lot easier than your dad did. Like Dad's friends were his school friends and his work friends. I still keep in contact with my school friends. And I go out with the ones that live closest to us. We go out occasionally. And I still have friends that I went to college with and that I taught, first started teaching with. I catch up with them for coffee once a month. Two of those girls, three of those girls I was at college with. And one was a workmate from OLGC when I worked there. Yeah. Then I had linked to, when I was at Mercy, I still see or catch up with Denise and Mark and Shavoya all the time and we're in contact. Really good friends. Godparent to Denise's son, you know. And then I have my Devalia friend who I'm in book club with. We go on holidays together. We see each other all the time. We go to shows together. Very good mates with them. And then I've got the OLG, like I've got Barb and Trish, good friends. Catch up with them all the time. Barb's very, very great. And then I've got the friendships through Dance Mate that I've made. Although Beth was through me. Yes. And Jenny was through Kathy because she was the neighbour of Kathy. Yes. So, yes. But we've all chilled and we get on well together. Yes. So I think Kathy, I've been a friend with since I was 19. Yes. She met Stephen, that was just a little bit after I met Dad. And yes, so like been involved all the time. So you've kept those. Yes. And I just think friendship's very important. Yeah. And to me particularly because I was in the city without family. Yeah. There you go. That makes a big difference. Yeah, no, that's great. I guess times have evolved since you were a little girl up until now. One of the things that changed was the idea of travel. You know, it was pretty unusual for people to travel overseas when you're a little girl. And I think you sort of discovered that and it's been such a big part of your life over the last 40 years. Absolutely. What's travel mean to you and what were some of your favourite travel experiences? I can honestly say I have never been on a holiday I haven't loved. So every time I come to Bali, I just absolutely love it. Like it's amazing, I just love it. Love the people, love the weather, love the food, just love everything about Bali. We first started, my first holiday was actually with my friends, obviously. Yeah. Group of friends, Kathy, Bev, Sally and I. We came over and we stayed at Samira Bahayat. Yes. And you were around about 30, is that it? Yeah, we were. About 30, yeah. I know, you were little. So I was about 35, yeah, 34, 35. Yeah, yes. So that was our first holiday overseas. And then we just took it from there. We went with Stephen and Kathy, we went on a cruise, we went to Singapore. Then we flew through Haiti and Milt Jackson and Jenny's friends and Stephen and Kathy and Kathy's brother and sister. We went off to Hong Kong and we had a fantastic time. Yeah. And then Dad said, I'm not going overseas, the only place I'll go is Bali. He said maybe I will go to Italy. So I booked that straight away. So we went off to Italy and we had an amazing time in Italy and we took it from there. So yeah, it's been pretty special. I've loved every minute of travel. Yeah. And really, you've seen all around the world now. Yeah, I haven't been to yet. You've been to Alaska, you've been to Europe. I have. Everywhere. I have. All over Asia. I have. Yeah. We've done Eastern Europe as well as Western Europe. You talked a little bit about your career before and you were mentioning that young women at those ages in high school, you sort of had nursing, you had teaching. That was it. That was about it. And you chose your teaching career. What did you love about teaching? What was the highlight for you? Oh, I love the kids. Yeah. I've always loved kids for whatever reason. They should go to kids and I just love that. And just to see them learn like my first class in Katahdin, it was only about 28, 30 kids in the class, but I had Aboriginal children, I had some children, I had hand kids. It was like, whoa, I'm not prepared for this. I was 20. Yeah. I'm not prepared for this. And I had a lovely lady who was older and she was my mentor. And so she sort of helped me through it. And one of the younger, now married women who lived in the town also was pretty good. I would go into her classroom and I'd just get ideas and she would share ideas with me. Yes. So that was pretty special. And then of course, dad and I were getting married the next year. So I really had heard. Then I had a class of 45 at Balcata, the year four class. And they loved that, loved that school, loved the kids, loved everything about it. And that was easy. Even though I had 45 kids, after the year two, they needed a lot of help. These kids could learn on their own. You just had to set the courses for them. And I was always way back there into exploratory learning. I wasn't bored and chalk or joking. I would set challenges and that was always the way I believed to learn best. So way back there. Yes. Yeah. And then after that, I just did part-time jobs as an admin really. But when you were born, I decided I needed to expand my horizons. So I decided I was going to do my BA, Bachelor of Education. Yes. Because up until then, you just need a teacher's certificate. So I studied for that. That proved challenging because you're a baby and dad didn't cope well with looking after a baby while I went out to night classes. Sure. So I had to give that. I did one year and then I had to stop because dad said, we'll cope with you as a baby. Yes. He'd never had to do it. Yeah. Not like the old fathers today, never had and he just... So I stopped for a year when you were a bit older. He couldn't manage it following. I started again. So then I did my third year, which I think was eighth year. And then I decided to go on and do my fourth year. And that's when I studied things like special needs, learning support. I did a counseling. Although I didn't do the counseling course then. I finished that. And then I... Yeah. So I did like an English second language because I thought I might like to teach that at 12. So I did... I could see that I wanted to explore other avenues. Yeah. And I even thought about going on and doing some sort of admin. But then I realized that dad had enough of me studying and he wasn't that keen on me working, you know, putting into it. So I didn't go ahead with that. And I'm glad I didn't. I like the classroom. I like... Yes. And then in my last 18 years, like six years where I was doing computing. Yes. And running networks and things like that. Yes. And then in the next 12 years when I... No, that's 12 years. I did the computing and running networks. And then I did the learning support and special needs coordinator. I loved that. That was a nice way into retirement. And that was all I needed really. And I was living in an area that I felt comfortable with. But when I was at St. Gerard's... Yes. That was the guy who was the coordinator of it. I don't know what he was at CERK to school. And he was talking to me about something I might like to go with. He said, we've got a position coming up at Mercer College. It's a counseling position. He said, would you be interested in that? And I said, I think I would. I would, yeah. And so he sent me off to do a course at Murdoch University in counseling. And then I took on that role for three years. At Mercy. And that was at the time when the boat people were coming in and a lot of immigrants were coming in. And that was a really interesting role. That was three years there. Did you have a favorite in terms of, do you have general classroom teaching of younger students, slightly older students, computer, special needs, counseling? Was there an area that you felt you really were in flow or there were just good paths to all domains? I'll tell you what, I was the type of person that once, I didn't particularly, I preferred the old children. I preferred the year six and seven kids. Yeah. I was not quite sure about the computing. I liked it, but it was very new and I was the forerunner. Yeah. And I wasn't 100% confident in what I was doing. Do you know what? I wasn't in charge, totally, of what I was doing. I did get that way, but at the beginning, it was a real learning curve. And I had three kids running around with sports and running a family and everything, but it worked out well. I actually loved everything I did in teaching. Yes, yeah. I just, there wasn't any part of it. I used to coach sporting teams and I was a very involved person in everything I did and I loved it. I just loved the interaction with the kids. So that's good. The worst part of teaching, I guess, towards the end, was the parents. Yeah, right up until the last probably 60 years of my teaching career, parents respected teachers, that what you said was fine. The challenges started coming. So that started to change. That started to change and every teacher would tell you that. Yeah, it makes sense. The minute the parents got some sort of control and started putting pressure on teachers, it made it very difficult. And the department, too, was putting more pressure on teachers in terms of their workload and their accountability. So things did change and even now, I think that's the worst part of teaching, the teachers. What does home mean to you? Obviously, from my life, we moved into this house at Fort Trussell when I was four and that's all my bell rings that have laughed together. What does home mean to you? What are your special memories of the house and what do you like about the home? You know, apart from the fact that I love my career and I love my friends and I love my family, my home was my life and my kids. My kids were my home. That was it. That was all I needed. I wasn't. The other parts enhanced my life of that. Made me appreciate what I had in my family. I love the house, but from the beginning, I loved it. I made changes to it because the house that I designed wasn't what we built. The house we built was what dad wanted. And sometimes, and always right through my married life, it's easier, quite often, to get into him than to have the argument. So, I got into him. But then, when I left the department and started at Catholic Ed, I actually was given, they made a mistake and they paid me on my super. And so, with that super money, I did the extensions. I paid for the extensions on the house and I took control of that. Dad didn't want to know. So, I took control of that and I dealt with Dennis. That's going to help as a builder. The difference, he gave me all the info I needed. And I think with all that info, we paid him 10% of what he needed. Sure. So, it was good value. But yeah, and I then had the upstairs area that I wanted. Yeah. So, and it's been beautiful and I still love it. Yeah. I still stand in the kitchen and look out and I think, I watch the sunset and I think, this is beautiful. Yeah. I mean, for me, the two parts about the home are the living area upstairs where we have that beautiful setback and elevated view. Well, a little bit of on the ocean, also just out of neighborhood. Yeah, it's just on top of your neighbor. It just feels lovely when you're upstairs in an elevated position and so much of our life is there. That's where we, and then the pool area and the barbecue where we host memories, freshnesses. And I think that's the point I was getting to is, what are those special occasions, the Christmases, the Easters, the birthdays? Invariably, we celebrate them at home in that outside area. What does that mean to you? I know it was fantastic. I loved every minute of it. And that was family, that was home. And also, in the early stages, we always also used to have dad's family. Yeah. But then when we all got to be, that was too much. Yeah. But at the beginning, they were all part of the Christmas and the special occasions as well. So yeah, that was all I knew about because that's how I grew up. Yeah. In Albany. That was our life. Yes. And I was just making, transitioning to the life up here. It wasn't necessarily the life that dad's family had or city people had, but we did have that life. And I just changed. It was just me. It was just what. And it was fantastic. Yeah. That's great. Talk to me about your faith, your Christian faith. That might be a silly question, but what are your beliefs? And then have they changed over time? My beliefs have changed over time. Yeah. So as a child, we were brought up in an all-knowing, very strict Catholic environment. None of us were converts. None of our grandparents were strict Catholics. But we did go to church every Sunday. No, that's not. Yeah. At the beginning, I don't think we did because we would just go down and buy. Granddad and I. But after that, you know, when we got a car, we used to go to church every Sunday. But it was like so much guilt. So much guilt. Laid on by the priests, the brothers, the nuns. And that was very hard for me to shake. I did not shake that until COVID. And when COVID hit, we stopped going to mass. All of a sudden, a whole epiphany that God isn't the Catholic Church. God's God. You know what I mean? So it's amazing. I feel as though I'm a much more Christian person now, that I don't put everything into the Catholic faith. I think it wasn't only COVID. It was that whole thing with the priests and the brothers and the pedophilia and all of that. And we knew the Catholic Church was covering it up and baking scoops and all of that. That was such an eye-opener to me. To think, how could a Christian church condone that and hide it? And they put their church above people. You know, and that changed for me. But you know, my whole, I've got an honour as a church. Don't get me wrong. So your faith in Jesus Christ and Christianity is still the same, but the institution of the Catholic Church is not the same. But you still believe in Jesus. Absolutely. 100%. Yes. I believe that those stories in the Bible have credibility. Some of them, not all of them. But there's something there about it that you do. And I believe in a higher being. I don't know if there's a heaven and a hell or whatever, but I believe that, yes, I do believe that there's a higher being that can help us and guide us and make us into better people. Yeah. And how has Christianity impacted your life and your faith? How has it been part of your life? You know, like even now, and sometimes I've flooded your God or Jesus, I talk to Dad. I say, what are you doing? How are you letting this happen? You know, guide me through this. And it just helps. Yeah. So, you know, I still pray. As I pray, I still talk to whatever spirits are there. And I think I get guidance from that. Now, whether that's just that whole talking thing is just coming from within me, because I do believe it's probably something within you that's innate with you that you just need to work it out and figure it out. But it's important to me to believe that. How do you feel about ageing and the fact that all of us and every person is going to go through a process where the body starts to deteriorate and also death? And so how do you, I suppose you're at a bit of an age where your friends are starting to get quite sick. How are you processing that? How do you feel about ageing and how do you think about death? Okay. So with Nan, I sort of feel that she's had a wonderful life and I feel that, to be perfectly honest, she still wants to be here and she's still fighting to live. And while that's the case, I will support her in that and I'll fight for her to live. But I'm not necessarily sure that she's particularly happy. And I find that sad, you know. With myself and our friends, it's quite difficult to see some of your friends. I mean, I know that I'm getting older and I can't do the things I used to do, like climb up on that chair to the top, you know, get things out. But I'm accepting of that. Like I'm 74. I'm not trying to be 54 or whatever. I know that's it and that, come on, let's just do it gracefully and not worry and enjoy every day. Wake up every day, go, this is great. So I'm happy where I'm at in life. I've had a wonderful life. I've got, you know, everything's great. Yeah. So, and I'll just do the things I can do while I can. Yeah. And that's my philosophy and I'm not worried or scared or, you know, anything about what's in the future. We're not. I'll let that take care of itself. And I think that's where my faith helps too. Yes, yeah. And I'm not worried about that at all. And I know when my time comes, it comes and that's good. But whatever is beyond, I don't know, but I'm not worried about it. So again, that's good. I'm just going to live each day, enjoy each day to the best I can. Hopefully, I stay well. Yeah, it was funny when I did have the heart attack. Yeah. And I said to Bert, and he's 46, the life specialist. It's just gorgeous. It talks me out. You talk to me, you know. And he said to me, so, you know, how are you feeling? He was, you know, wondered. And I just said, believe it. I said, oh, God, I seem destructible. Yeah. And he, then he laughed and he said, well, what I want you to do is I want you to stop worrying and get on and live your life because it's fine. You know, and he said, oh, it's all good. So, you know, just do this. And everything, you know, like I read last week to see when he said, now, for Tuesday actually, and he said, now, I can increase this medication if you like. What do you think? Now, things like that. He's just a lovely man. Him talking to me like that, it's made life. So, I had a bit of a blip, you know. Nothing to worry about, obviously, you know. So, it's things like that. Just take it in your stride, I reckon. Enjoy it while you can. So, you know, age doesn't worry me. It's very sad to see D with dementia, Stephen with time frame. And even like Tyson with MS. So, you know, people around you with the conditions that you just wish they didn't have. And just some of them are aging more than others, if you like. But, you know, don't worry about it. You just got to wake up and be happy. Yeah, that's good advice. What has marriage taught you? Patience. Patience. We can always leave it there. That's perfect. I feel we should just stop there. All right. Well, I have a few little just, I say quickfire questions, but just to sort of finish up. But take as long as you like to answer. Yeah. So, what is the best decision you ever made and why? I'm not sure I made a decision about it, but having children is the best thing I've ever possibly done. Choosing teaching as a career because it has been so rewarding. So, children and teaching. Yeah. So rewarding. That's great. So, having children, really, I mean, I'm trying not to put words at you about that. Are you saying that was the best thing in your life or? Oh, yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. Love my kids and I love my grandkids. And a hundred percent. So, does that mean that you look at me in a way and think, what the hell are you doing? Yes. I mean, a genuine question. Do you look at me and think? Because I think sometimes you can look into other people's lives and they have blind spots, you know. I do that with everybody, really. I think there's kind of some things they might not see or they might lack an awareness. Do you think it's that I have a blind spot there that maybe I just need to, whatever, just get it done and have a kid? What's your feeling about that? No, I don't. I don't see that at all. I think- That's interesting. I think that it will happen if it's meant to happen. I'm a little bit of a facialist in that I don't wish anything on people. I just accept them for what's happening. And if you had a child, that would be amazing. But if you don't, it's still amazing. Yeah. Because you're you and it doesn't lie. Yeah. So that's always been my philosophy on life. If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. But if it doesn't, there's so much more in your life. Yes. Yeah. Do you have any regrets? Any regrets? No, I don't. No, I don't have any regrets. Great answer. I mean, well, yes, I do. Probably, dad and I got married, not probably, absolutely 100% got married to you. Yeah. But isn't this the funny thing about life though? Because if that didn't happen, there's no milk. The trade-off of that is not what I was going to say. The trade-off is that we had kids while we were young and we grew up with our kids. Yeah. And I probably made lots of mistakes as a parent, but every parent does. Yeah. You do your very best and you hope to help. Where there's love and where your whole being is to children, yeah. So the trade-off of that was that we were young and we grew up with our kids and lots and lots of all the camping trips and everything. Yeah. So, yeah, no. No, that's a great answer. And I think the other thing is that you have a longer relationship with your grandchildren where you really get to see them grow into adulthood. When you start later in life, you don't get that. You don't. Like I look at Dee and her grandchildren with toddlers and little, she's got dementia. Yeah. Whereas I've had so much joy out of my grandkids. So much. What would you tell your 20-year-old self if you could go back in time? Do you know what? You said to me yesterday, you were pretty or you were good-looking and whatever. And I said to you, well, I was never made to feel like that. And I probably think have more confidence and believe that you have got attributes, that other people see in you that you don't see in yourself. Yes. And I think in that case, ought to be more confident. Although I was confident. Yeah. Yeah. I never was not that confident. But yeah, I think I would have felt better about myself in that way. Not that it matters, because to me, looks are important. They never have been. Because I never felt I had good looks. So it wasn't important to me. I had other, I always thought I had a nice personality. Yes. And I could attract people and friends through my personality, not my looks. Yeah. Great answer. And then the final question for today, what values and or advice, either one or both, would you like to pass down to the younger generations of your family? I would like to say always be very kind, be a giving person, but be assertive. You don't have to be angry, but you can be assertive. Know what you want, know how you feel, and don't let anybody talk you out of what you believe is right. And yeah, just go for it. Live life, have fun. Don't worry too much when things happen that you think are out of your control because tomorrow is a different day. So don't get too uptight about life. Be happy. Beautiful. Amazing. Mum, thank you for that chat today. I really appreciate it. I've learned a lot. And yeah, it's been really, really nice. Well, you've probably learned things about me that you didn't know. Exactly. Fantastic. No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.