Podcast Audio

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's podcast. My name is Chloe Holsinger, and I'm really, really excited for today's episode. We're going to discuss leadership. We're going to address the armored leadership versus daring leadership theory, the importance of communication, some strategies that we use, and I'm going to bring a guest speaker on today, and we're going to break down a few examples and reflect on them based on some of the things that we've talked about in our discussion. So I'm going to introduce our guest, Thomas Holsinger, on today's episode. Welcome. All right. So I just wanted you to have a chance to quickly introduce yourself. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Awesome. So I think he's going to be able to add a lot to our discussion today. He's had over 30 years of experience in retail management specifically, and I think he's going to have a lot to say about what we talk about in terms of leadership today. So let's get started. So I'm going to give a quick preface of kind of the background of this episode and what made it come to be today. So I am doing a project on a book by Brene Brown, and it is called Dare to Lead. And so it is a great book about leadership in general and her theory about a daring leader versus an armored leader, which we're going to break down here in a few minutes. And she emphasizes rumbling with vulnerability, and she has spent decades studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy. So her book has a lot of great foundations in terms of that. And so my goal today is just to reflect on what I've been reading, bring Thomas into this conversation, and just kind of apply it into real-world situations. So let's start with what leadership is and how it's defined in the world. And so I have a few definitions here. First off is going to be a set of behaviors used to help people align their collective direction, to execute strategic plans, and to continually renew an organization. I really like this definition because some of the key words that I pulled out here are collective, execution, and continually renew. Another really good definition is the ability to impact others in a positive way, in which a collective goal is met to inspire and promote purpose, values, and positive habits. So with that, I wanted to ask you a question, Thomas. Why do you think leadership is so important in 2023? Lots of businesses are talking about it. It's talked about in schools, like I mentioned earlier, workplace. But give me some feedback on why you think leadership is so important. I totally agree. And we talk about different types of leadership, so there's like servant leadership, which I think is a great example of how to be a leader. So that's like almost multiplying values to others, serving others. And it takes a good person. It takes a lot of hard work to be a good leader. Because what is the most difficult part about being a leader, would you say? You know, it's something very important about being a leader. It's something that very quickly comes to mind. It's pretty much what you do in your career. In your career, there's a lot of things that you need to be aware of. But very quickly, you want to be really brave. You want to be a leader. 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West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, and you're at a meeting in the North and West, Avoidance is a type of communication Avoidance is a type of communication that a lot of people use, that a lot of people use, not just in the workplace, not just in the workplace, but within relationships, but within relationships, and it is very toxic. and it is very toxic. It can lead to unproductivity It can lead to unproductivity with not reading your emails. with not reading your emails. Just avoiding someone Just avoiding someone or not responding is not the answer. or not responding is not the answer. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. 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It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not something positive to do. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. It's not just about being smart and qualified. which is having power over someone else versus fostering kind of like an empowering environment and that sort of thing. And they reward exhaustion of the status symbol. So, armored leadership is common in organizations and in government, even the school environment. And not all workplace environments see this as ineffective or unproductive or hurtful to an organization, but I think that it really causes issues within the workplace. I would love to hear your thoughts on this and what are the consequences of having poor leadership in workplace environments. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. 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Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.