Episode Adrienne Axler

Adrian Axler, a former CEO of Sodexo, shares her experiences and insights on leadership. She emphasizes the importance of freedom, responsibility, and taking care of oneself. She believes in making the world better through wisdom, leadership, and good energy. Adrian's leadership journey started at a young age, and she believes in the power of positivity and optimism. She values people and their role in the service industry. Adrian emphasizes the importance of listening and understanding others without words, and she believes in the need to take care of oneself in leadership. Lead long and prosper. The Spellcast for joy in leadership. Experiences, tips, and valuable hacks for all those who want to lead with joy. Hello everyone. Hello dear Spellcast friends. Today is the first time we are introducing an English episode to you. So we are hoping that we can reach out now to a much larger audience and hopefully you will enjoy today's session with a very, very special guest we have for you. But first of all, let me introduce my co-leads here. So we have Sabine, who will be my co-interview partner today. Hello everyone. And we have Hans-Joachim, who will be the Spellcaster today. Thank you. Welcome. We have Adrian Axler today with us here. Let me introduce you to her first so that you get an impression of what an inspiring guest we have in today's Spellcast episode. Adrian, you were born in the Czech Republic on the eastern side of the Iron Curtain. You learned early in your life what freedom means and why freedom has a sister called responsibility, as you like to say. In 1968, you came to the Netherlands not speaking the language. You wanted to learn Dutch quickly. And in the meantime, by the way, you speak five languages. But you also learned how to communicate with people without words. You decided to study hotel management in Brussels because you wanted to discover the world. And from there, it was not too far for you to enter the food service industry because you felt that this is a place with purpose, a place where your interest in people could be useful to you and others. Already at the age of 24, you took over your first leadership roles and you stayed in various leadership positions in the food service industry over 40 years. For the last 30 years, with Sodexo, a French food services and facilities management company with more than 400,000 employees and over 17 billion revenues in 2021. During these 30 years and your different roles, you have acquired and put into practice an increasing experience in operations, marketing, client relations and general management. You then led as the Sodexo CEO for Germany, Austria and Switzerland, more than 15,000 people through a period of cultural and organizational transformation. Family services are your passion and so are people. There is no service without people, as you like to say. You believe in the need to take care of ourselves, aligning with nature and the higher I. Your pledge to mankind, society and the world is, why do I do what I do? Today you are a yoga teacher, board member, leader of a women network, a coach and a happy grandmother of three grandchildren. Your rich biography and fulfilled life can be summarized by the values you believe in, freedom, responsibility, courage, tolerance, generosity and humility. Welcome, Adrian, to our podcast. Thank you. Thank you very much. So what an inspiring life you have led. How many different leadership lessons you must have had. So why don't we go back a little bit to the beginning and maybe we use your pledge to mankind as our first question. Why do you do what you do? Well, I know this. I think this question today, especially today, looking around us, is very easy to answer. I really try to make the world better, to fix it, because I think today's world really needs people who heal it with their wisdom, their leadership, thought leadership and good energy. So this is why I do what I do. And how did it begin? Maybe we go back. You have a history where you say also the system of freedom is responsibility. So what does it mean to you and how did it bring you into leadership? You know, it's wonderful when you accept this kind of exercise. I mean, talking about your past and your career, which seems like, you know, it seems so short looking at it afterwards. You made me thought about the beginning of it all, more especially. And I really tried to figure out what were the most important moments in my life. And thinking back to my childhood, there were two factors that really determined what I am today. And we talked about it before. I mean, first of all, I grew up in a communist country. And of course, the first reflex was to reject everything that this political system was about. But afterwards, years afterwards, I just recognized that some things were perhaps not to throw away. And that was about thinking more collectively and thinking more about the higher interest and collective interest than being a simple individual. So this was part of my foundation. And at the same time, from the very beginning, very early in my life, I realized that being deprived of freedom really was not acceptable for me. But at the same time, when you accept being free, you accept taking hold of your life and taking responsibility of your life. So these are the building stones of what I am today, if you wish. So in that context, taking over responsibility is something that you learned early for yourself, but then also for others. So how did this then evolve into, I actually think I can take over responsibility for others. I can start leading. What was your first experience in leadership? Well, this is a good question, because sometimes people ask, do you think you can learn leadership? I think you can learn management, you can learn techniques, and you have a natural talent to leadership that you can develop. I don't think you can really learn leadership. I remember from the very first years in my life when I went to school, I was always the class representative and people looked to me asking, what do you think and how would you do it? And so I think I just developed this. And part of it was because I wanted to determine my own life. And so showing the way to others was the way to keeping control of my own life. So where does it start, where does it end? I don't know, really. Adrienne, our goal is to find joy in leadership. Could you agree that you can feel joy or you felt joy also in the first moment of your leadership journey? Or is this a part which was also a developing part? I'm a very joyful person. So another question, where does it start? Do you take people on a journey because you are a joyful person, you are someone who is optimistic, who gives hope, who makes life looking a little bit nicer than it is? Or is it you become that way because it's a mean to reach your, it's a way of reaching your objectives? I always believe that being a positive, optimistic person brought me much farther than being pessimistic and looking at everything in a negative way. Was there a role model for you or somebody who protects you or gives you special advice? No advice. I run into very inspiring and very good people. And it's not about women or men. I think this is a false problem. I run into men who were very female and who spoke the same language I do. And this is important, you know, how we understand each other. So people always inspired me. And I think it's important to develop your intuition and to liaise with people whom you connect with and who can help you forward. And this was my way of getting forward in my career as well. You're obviously very people-centric, a very people-centric person. By also entering the services industry, you are making people the center of your work, but also the center of your leadership. Why services? And what do people mean to you? I mean, the people were the customers on the one hand, at the same time, also the people that work for Sodexo itself. Can you describe a bit more the purpose of why you picked that industry also? Actually, I did not. It was not conscious, because once again, I really followed my intuition. And the first job I picked up was because of the person who hired me. And I just felt a connection. I thought I can learn something, I can be useful, I can get forward. And then it came all by itself. And my interest in people really started. You mentioned at the age of 24, when I went first into a leadership position, I didn't know a clue. You start in a job and you think, how am I going to do this? And especially I was in a kitchen environment. And a kitchen environment is extremely hard, extremely hierarchical, and it doesn't like women. So how do you handle this? And so the only way to do it was to put myself at the level of the people I was talking to. And you mentioned also this fact that I learned how to send people and how to understand the situations without words. And I think this was one of the most powerful tools I have used. Observing, trying to feel the energy, you know, when you exchange energy flows, it's very, very powerful. And put myself really in the situation of the person who was sitting opposite to me and trying to support, understand and also handle with the situation. Never give up, never say, you know, this is not for me, this is not my job. Can we go a bit deeper there? It's interesting when you talk about speaking without words and you mentioned observing or listening, which we know is an important leadership element. How does leadership work for you without words? Does it exist? Of course it exists. I'm also really convinced that a big part of leadership consists in listening. You will say that's not without words, but you don't have to lead by saying things. I think if you acknowledge and you demonstrate that you are supporting people, it's not always about words. My greatest boss ever was someone who never gave me one single objective, really in concrete words. He was just supportive. He was always there when I needed him, but it was much more supportive and material than really expressed. This is something, it's about empathy, each time trying to understand what situation the other person is in and how can I help him. You talked about the I and taking care of ourselves. How important do you think that part is in the leadership context to understand yourself, to see where you are? What's the I in the leadership? Well, you have the I, ego, and you have the I, you should take care of. And I think it's very important to be connected with yourself, to really know who you are, what your needs are, how you can take care of yourself, because it brings you inner peace that I strongly believe you really spread out. It's very funny because I never were aware about this, but since some months people give me feedback and they say, you know what is wonderful about you? You come in and you bring peace, you bring calm and you are very peaceful. And I didn't realize this myself because, you know, sometimes it's very stormy inside me. I fight a lot with myself and I try to always suit down. But this alignment with yourself and feeling that it's right what you are doing, I think that's the best TPI or measure that you can have to understand people and connect with them and not be in the ego, but in the I. And again, this self-leading process is a process maybe interesting for our listeners to become some examples of how to train it or what are your measures to be aware of yourself? Are there some techniques? Of course there are, but I would not like to give a recipe that's it for all. With me, it started really very simply because I had physical troubles. I had some back injury and I really suffered very much. I lived a very stressful life and I was at the time I was 50 or something like that. And I thought, you know, if I stop now being really completely fit, then it's bad news because I have some more years to live. So what do I do about this? And once again, we come back to the responsibility, taking hold of your own life and trying to be as responsible with yourself as possible. So I consulted some surgeons and they told me, you know, you have to do exercise. And so I thought, OK, I will do yoga to become fit. And I started really very consciously to do yoga, you know, as an exercise, physical exercise. And then something very strange happened. Six months later, I felt really mental benefit. And so I got interested and I started to study meditation and some Eastern philosophy. I went to India and this is how it came. And so today I really practice very regularly. And I feel that if I don't, during two or three days, I get unrest inside. Really taking time for yourself, but not time to go to looking into the introspection, looking into yourself. I think it's very important. If you had known this earlier, if I may ask, how would this have changed some of your leadership choices or your situations, especially the difficult ones at the end where we said you let 15,000 people, a huge transformation for Sodexo. Do you think there would have been a difference or is this more for you how you would have showed up differently? You know, I strongly believe that we are what we are today. I never look behind me. I don't look back. Most important things I think I have learned is that today is today. It's important to be in presence. Yes, perhaps, but perhaps it would be worse, perhaps better. I don't know. I am very happy with what I am today, enjoying today, really, and being present today. How important at the end is the organization and the culture, the leadership culture for you? And is it important for the younger people that they have some facts and figures they checked up before they choose a new role? Talk to people who are working in the company, how they feel. I think young people are very much purpose driven today, so they really need to connect to something that is bigger than they are and to be in a transcendent role and not only down to earth. So I think it's essential. But it's up to each individual to know what is important for him or her. So personally, it was always more about intuition and feeling, right? But I guess some people need facts and figures and indicators, surveys, probably. Whatever the way you do it, I think it's really about a conscious choice. Talking about conscious choices, when we go to our younger generation now, at the beginning of their careers, what conscious choices should they take based on your experience? What advice would you give these young leaders in the beginning of their careers based on the experiences you have made? Follow your heart. That would be always my recommendation. Sometimes I have the feeling that they reflect too much. It's far too rational. And sometimes you should listen to your intuition, because once you follow your heart, I think you do the right choices. And what choices do you think in a complex world like today are the most difficult ones? And which ones are probably a bit easier? Really, I don't believe that there are easy choices today because everything is urgent. Young people more especially know what to do and how to do it. I have a deep trust in the new generations. Really, they are smart. Their consciousness is much higher than ours. They have learned much more today at the age of 30 than we know at 65 or 70. So I have a deep trust in them. The problem is the urgency. And there are some things that you cannot do in a state of urgency. You have to take time for. So how they will handle it with this speed and quantity of information and the complexity, that is something that really bothers me. Would you like to share with us one of your joyful leadership situation or story of your life? It will always be about people. The most joyful situations have been situations where people got forward during the period of time they worked with me or that I have seen successful afterwards because I shared with them some experience and I allowed them to grow. The reactions I received until now from people, you know, recognizing that I have been a role model for them, all this richness of relationships and contacts. This is really what makes me accomplished. Maybe a last closing question before we pull Hans-Joachim back in as the spellcaster for today. What is your secret tip? What's the one thing you would like to give our listeners as a leadership hack for the future? My secret tip is the strength of an intention. If you put an intent in something and a very strong intent, you can achieve whatever. Never give up and have a strong intention. Thank you, Adrienne. Hans-Joachim, how do you bring all of this together? It will take a lifetime to integrate all this, as Udo said. I try to highlight maybe some of the things I took to the benefit of the listeners and to our benefit, because there was something I saw between us sparks going back and forth because it was so interesting. But the first thing which came to my mind was we talked about the Iron Curtain and it came straight away into my mind, the Iron Dome, which is important at the moment for some people in the world. That was for me quite astonishing to see how Adrienne in a way integrated her business life into her physical life, let's say. And one hack could be never forget your body if you do leader. We know the word walk your talk. We had also the word you need to learn to listen to your intuition. This is something we have lost on the way, you know, because since we are not animals and we are still animals, we have to relearn to listen to our intuition. Never, never give up. Listen to your heart is similar to listen to your intuition. I heard something which is a bit like a higher intent. It was the word healing. The world needs healing. And I would say healing and reconnect, reconnect to the things which we have lost on the way to be a professional, a doctor, but became whatever we have become on the way. So reconnect to the things which are important and which might go back to your learning in school that you were speaking up when nobody was speaking up and saying, oh, this is not right, teacher. Bonding and intuition, bonding to people, bonding to the business, bonding to the purpose of the organization, bonding to that what you imagine it could be. It's not yet there, but it could be there. I think listen again. I would I would say listen again. Thank you, Adrienne. Thank you, Hans-Joachim. So that closes also our wonderful podcast with you, Adrienne. And as always, our guest has the last word. Any closing thoughts from you, Adrienne, for our listeners and how you feel after this half hour with us? I would say only thank you because it was a wonderful, wonderful moment of being a human. This was your Spellcast. Lead long and prosper with Sabine Schmitzroth, Achim Glöckebaum and Hans-Joachim Spreng. Thank you for being with us and see you next time.