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In this episode, we delve into the timeless fable of "Who Moved My Cheese" by Dr. Spencer Johnson. The fable revolves around four characters living in a maze who are on a quest for cheese, representing various approaches to change and adaptation. Maybe you will see yourself in one or all of them.
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In this episode, we delve into the timeless fable of "Who Moved My Cheese" by Dr. Spencer Johnson. The fable revolves around four characters living in a maze who are on a quest for cheese, representing various approaches to change and adaptation. Maybe you will see yourself in one or all of them.
Listen to Dirty Chai with Chio - Ep 45 - Who Moved my Cheese by Chio MP3 song. Dirty Chai with Chio - Ep 45 - Who Moved my Cheese song from Chio is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 33:00. This high-quality MP3 track has 1060.199 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 22 Apr 2024. Stream and download Dirty Chai with Chio - Ep 45 - Who Moved my Cheese by Chio for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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The Dirty Shag Podcast discusses Dr. Spencer Johnson's book "Who Moved My Cheese?" which teaches how people adapt to change. The story revolves around four characters: two mice named Sniff and Scurry, and two humans named Him and Ho. They all search for cheese in a maze, but while the mice adapt and find new cheese when it runs out, Him and Ho become complacent and are shocked when their cheese is gone. The story highlights the importance of adapting to change and not taking things for granted. Hello, hi, welcome to this week's installment of the Dirty Shag Podcast with me, your host Shio, the podcast where we focus on holistic professional and personal success by growing and developing the common denominator to all your successes, all your failures, and everything in between, you. It's about the mindset, emotional regulation, and the intentional personal development that underpins holistic success. Today we are talking about Dr. Spencer Johnson's book, Who Moved My Cheese? The tagline to the book is, an amazing way to deal with change in your work and in your life. 10 guesses to figure out why I picked this book. As you know, I've been dealing with a lot of change lately. It's all good change, but change unsettles me nonetheless. I was looking for something, tools, information, something that can make me feel better about the change but also deal better with it. When I saw this tagline, an amazing way to deal with change in your work and in your life, I thought, huh, let me give it a shot. I took this book with me to the hair salon and I read it while they installed my locks. It was the quickest read but also just exactly what I needed to hear for the time that I'm in. I thought I would share with you the story. The book is short and it's built around a fable. The fable, as you know, is a metaphor. It teaches us how a lot of people or some types of people view change, how they adapt or do not adapt to it, what it means. It's a simple story that gets shared repeatedly. I'm told that it's been shared so many times and the book has sold 28 million copies. So what seems like a very simple and basic story has clearly had a profound meaning and a profound impact for the rest of the world. I couldn't quite wrap my head around how exactly to share it because it's so short so I thought I would leave out all the discussion and simply talk to you about the story itself. Like most things, I think we've talked many times, we've referenced a quote many times that reads, from time to time you should reread the book that you found great. Not because the book has changed but because you have changed. And I think this story has some sort of parallel application or that meaning has parallel application here because you take from it according to where you are and what you hear from the story is probably what is most applicable to you. So let's jump into the story. In the story, in a land far away, there lived four little characters who ran through a maze looking for cheese to nourish them and make them happy. Two of them were mice named Sniff and Scurry and two were little people. Little people who were beings just as small as the mice but looked and acted a lot like people today. Their names were Him and Ho. So you've got Sniff and Scurry who are mice and you've got Him and Ho who are miniature humans. Due to their small size, it would be easy not to notice what the four of them were doing. But if you looked at them closely enough, according to the storyteller, you would discover amazing things. Every day, the mice and the little people spend time in the maze looking for their own special cheese. The mice, Sniff and Scurry, possessing simple brains and good instincts, searched for the hard needling cheese that they like, as mice often do. The two little people, Him and Ho, used their complex brains filled with many beliefs and emotions to search for a very different kind of cheese with a capital C, which they believed would make them feel happy and successful. As different as the mice and the little people were, they shared something in common. Every morning, they each put on their jogging suits and running shoes, left their little homes and raced out into the maze looking for their favorite cheese. The maze was a labyrinth of corridors and chambers, some containing delicious cheese, but there were also dark corners and blind alleys leading to nowhere. It was an easy place for anybody to get lost. However, for those who found their way, the maze held secrets that let them enjoy a better life. The mice, Sniff and Scurry, used the same simple trial-and-error method of finding cheese. They ran down one corridor, and if it proved empty, they turned and ran down another. They remembered the corridors that held no cheese and quickly went into new areas. Sniff would smell out the general direction of the cheese using his great nose, and Scurry would race ahead. They got lost, as you might expect, went off in the wrong direction, often bumped into walls, but after a while, they found their way. Like the mice, the two little people, Him and Ho, also used their ability to think and learn from their past experiences. However, they relied on their complex brains to develop more sophisticated methods of finding cheese. Sometimes they did well, but other times, their human beliefs, which were powerful, and their emotions took over and clouded the way that they looked at things. It made life in the maze more complicated and challenging. Nonetheless, Sniff, Scurry, Him, and Ho all discovered in their own way what they were looking for. They each found their own kind of cheese at the end of one of the corridors, and it was called Cheese Station C. Every morning after that, the mice and the little people dressed up in their running gear and headed over to Cheese Station C. It wasn't long before they each established their own routine. Sniff and Scurry continued to wake up early and raced through the maze, always following the same route. When they arrived at their destination, the mice would take off their running shoes, tie them together, and hang them around their necks so they could get to them quickly whenever they needed them again. Then they enjoyed the cheese. In the beginning, Him and Ho also raced towards Cheese Station C every morning to enjoy the tasty new mussels that waited for them. But after a while, a different routine set in for the little people. Him and Ho awoke each day a little later, dressed a little slower, and walked to Cheese Station C. After all, they knew where the cheese was now and how to get there. They had no idea where the cheese came from or who put it there. They just assumed it would be there. As soon as Him and Ho arrived at Cheese Station C each morning, they settled in and made themselves at home. They hung up their jogging suits, put away their running shoes, put on their slippers. They were becoming very comfortable now that they had found the cheese. This is great," said Him. There is enough cheese here to last us forever. The little people felt happy and successful, and thought they were now secure. It wasn't long before Him and Ho regarded the cheese they found at Cheese Station C as their cheese. It was such a large store of cheese that they eventually moved their homes to be closer to it, built a social life around it. To make themselves feel even more at home, Him and Ho decorated the walls with sayings and even drew pictures of cheese around them, which made them smile. One read, Having cheese makes you happy. Sometimes Him and Ho would take their friends by to see their pile of cheese at Cheese Station C, pointed with pride, saying, Pretty nice cheese, huh? Sometimes they shared it with their friends, and sometimes they didn't. We deserve this cheese," Him said. We certainly had to work long and hard enough to find it. They picked up a nice fresh piece and ate it. Afterward, Him fell asleep, as he often did. Every night, the little people would waddle home full of cheese, and every morning they would confidently return for more. This went on for a time. After a while, Him and Ho's confidence grew into arrogance of success. Soon they became so comfortable they didn't even notice what was happening. What was happening, though? Sniff and Scurry continued their routine. They arrived early each morning and sniffed and scratched and scurried around Cheese Station C, inspecting the area to see if there had been any changes from the night before. Then they would sit down to nibble the cheese. One morning they arrived at Cheese Station C and discovered there was no cheese. They weren't surprised. Since Sniff and Scurry had noticed the supply of cheese had been getting smaller every day, they were prepared for the inevitable and knew instinctively what to do. They looked at each other, removed the running shoes they had tied together and hung conveniently around their necks. Put them on their feet and laced them up. The mice did not overanalyze things. To the mice, the problem and the answer were both simple. The situation at Cheese Station C had changed. So Sniff and Scurry decided to change, too. They both looked out into the maze. Then Sniff lifted his nose, sniffed, nodded to Scurry, who took off running through the maze, while Sniff followed as fast as he could. They were quickly off in search of new cheese. Later that same day, Hem and Ho arrived at Cheese Station C. They had not been paying attention to the small changes that had been taking place each day, so they took it for granted that the cheese would be there. They were unprepared for what they found. What? No cheese? Hem yelled. He continued yelling, No cheese! No cheese! as though if he shouted loud enough somebody would put it back. Who moved my cheese? he hollered. Finally he put his hands on his hips, his face turned red, and he screamed at the top of his voice. It's not fair! Ho just shook his head in disbelief. He too had counted on finding cheese at Cheese Station C. He stood there for a long time frozen with shock. He was just not ready for this. Hem was yelling something, but Ho didn't want to hear it. He didn't want to deal with what was facing him, so he just tuned everything else. He just tuned everything out. The little people's behavior was not very attractive, but it was understandable. Finding cheese wasn't easy, and it meant a great deal more to the little people than just having enough of it to eat every day. Finding cheese was the little people's way of getting what they thought they needed to be happy. They had their own ideas of what cheese meant to them depending on their taste. For some, finding cheese was having material things. For others, it was enjoying good health and developing a spiritual sense of well-being. For Ho, cheese meant feeling safe, having a loving family someday, and living in a cozy cottage on Cheddar Lane. To Hem, cheese was becoming a big cheese in charge of others and owning a big house atop Camembert Hill. Because cheese was important to them, the two little people spent a long time trying to decide what to do. All they could think of was keep looking around Cheese Station C to see if the cheese was really gone. While Sniff and Scurry had quickly moved on, Hem and Ho continued to Hem and Ho. They ranted and raved at the injustice of it all. Ho was depressed. What would happen if the cheese wasn't there tomorrow? He had made future plans based on this cheese. The little people couldn't believe it. How could this have happened? No one had warned them. It wasn't right. It was not the way things were supposed to be. Hem and Ho went home that night, hungry and discouraged. But before they left, Ho wrote on the wall, The more important your cheese is to you, the more you want to hold on to it. The next day, Hem and Ho left their homes and returned to Cheese Station C again, where they still expected, somehow, to find their cheese. The situation hadn't changed, though. The cheese was no longer there. The little people didn't know what to do. Hem and Ho just stood there, immobilized like statues. Ho shut his eyes as hard as he could and put his hands over his ears. He just wanted to block everything out. He didn't want to know the cheese supply had gradually been getting smaller. He believed it had moved all of a sudden. Hem analyzed the situation over and over and eventually his complicated brain, with its huge belief system, took hold. Why did they do this to me? he demanded. What's really going on here? Finally, Ho opened his eyes, looked around and said, By the way, where's Sniff and Scurry? Do you think they know something we don't? Hem scoffed. What could they know? They're just mice. We're little people. We're smarter than mice. We should be able to figure this out. I know we're smarter, Ho said. But we don't seem to be acting any smarter at the moment. Things are changing around here, Hem. Maybe we need to change and do things differently. Why should we change? Hem asked. We're little people. We're special. This sort of thing should not happen to us. Or if it does, we should at least get some benefits. Why should we get benefits? Ho asked. Because we're entitled. Hem claimed. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. We're entitled. And this and Scurry were already well on their way. They went further into the maze, up and down the corridors looking for cheese in every cheese station they could find. They didn't think of anything else but finding new cheese. They didn't find any for some time, until they finally went into an area of the maze where they had never been before, Cheese Station N. They squealed with delight. They found what they were looking for, a great supply of new cheese. They couldn't believe their eyes. It was the biggest store of cheese the mice had ever seen. In the meantime, Hem and Ho were still back at Cheese Station C evaluating their situation. They were now suffering from the effects of having no cheese. They were becoming frustrated and angry and were blaming each other for the situation. Now and then Hem thought about the mice, Sniff and Scurry, and wondered if they had found any cheese yet. He believed they might be having a hard time. Running through the maze involved so much uncertainty, but he also knew it was likely to last only for a while. Sometimes Ho would imagine Sniff and Scurry finding new cheese and enjoying it. He thought about how good it would be for him to go out on an adventure in the maze and find new cheese. He could almost taste it. The more clearly Ho saw the image of himself finding and enjoying the new cheese, the more he saw himself leaving Cheese Station C. Let's go, he exclaimed all of a sudden. No, Hem responded. I like it here. It's comfortable. It's what I know. Besides, it's dangerous out there. It isn't. We've run through many parts of the maze before. We can do it again. I'm getting too old for that, Hem said, and I'm afraid I'm not interested in getting lost and making a fool of myself. Are you? And with that, Ho's fear of failing returned, and his hope of finding new cheese faded. So every day the little people continued to do what they had done before. They went to Cheese Station C, they found no cheese, and returned home, carrying their worries and frustrations with them. They tried to deny what was happening, but they found it harder to get to sleep, had less energy the next day, were becoming irritable. Their homes were not the nurturing places they once were. The little people had difficulty sleeping, were having nightmares about not finding any cheese. But Hem and Ho still returned to Cheese Station C and waited there every day. Hem said, you know, if we just work harder, we'll find that nothing has really changed that much. The cheese is probably nearby. Maybe they just hid it behind the wall. So they got some tools, and they broke through the wall to see if they could find some extra cheese in Cheese Station C. There wasn't any. By now they were getting weak, from hunger and from stress. Ho was getting tired of just waiting for their situation to improve. He began to see that the longer they stayed in their cheeseless situation, the worse off they would be. Ho knew they were losing their age. Finally, one day, Ho began laughing at himself. Look at us. We keep doing the same things over and over again and wonder why things don't get better. If this wasn't so ridiculous, it would be even funnier. Ho did not like the idea of having to run through the maze again because he knew he would get lost, have no idea where he would find any cheese, but he had to laugh at his folly when he saw what his fear was doing to him. He asked Hem, where did we put our running shoes? It took a long time to find them because they had put them away so far when they found Cheese Station C, thinking they wouldn't be needing them anymore. As Hem saw his friend getting into his running gear, he said, you're not really going out into the maze, are you? Why don't you just wait here with me until they get back and put back the cheese? Because you just don't get it, Ho said. I didn't want to see it either, but now I realize they're never going to put yesterday's cheese back. It's time to find new cheese, Hem argued. But what if there is no cheese out there? Or even if there is, what if you don't find it? I don't know, Ho said. He had asked himself those questions many times. Where am I more likely to find cheese? Here or in the maze? In his mind, he saw himself venturing into the maze. And while this picture surprised him, it made him feel good. He saw himself getting lost now and then in the maze, but he felt confident that he would eventually find new cheese. He saw himself eating Swiss cheese, cheddar, American cheese, mozzarella, soft camembert cheese. Then he heard Hem say something and realized they were still at Cheese Station C. Sometimes, Hem, things change, and they're never the same again, he said. This looks like one of those times. That's life. Life moves on, and so should we. Ho looked at his emaciated companion and tried to talk sense to him. But Hem's fear had turned into anger, and he wouldn't listen. Ho didn't mean to be rude to his friend, but he had to laugh at how silly they both looked. As Ho prepared to leave, he started to feel more alive, knowing that he was finally able to laugh at himself. Let's go and move on. Ho laughed and announced, It's maze time. Hem didn't laugh, and he didn't respond. Ho picked up a small sharp rock and wrote a serious thought on the wall. As was his custom, he drew a piece of cheese around it. If you do not change, you can become extinct. When Ho stuck his head out, peered anxiously into the maze. He thought about how he had gotten himself into this cheeseless situation. He had believed that there may not be any cheese in the maze, or that he may not find it. Such fearful beliefs were immobilizing him and killing him. Ho smiled. He knew Hem was wondering, Who moved my cheese? But Ho was wondering, Why didn't I get up and move with the cheese sooner? As he started out into the maze, Ho looked back to see where he had come from and felt discomfort. He could feel himself being drawn back to familiar territory, even though he hadn't found cheese there for some time. He became anxious and wondered if he really wanted to go out into the maze. And so he wrote himself another message on the wall. What would you do if you weren't afraid? He thought about it. He knew that sometimes fear can be good, when you are afraid of things that are going to get worse. When you are afraid, things are going to get worse, and if you don't do something, it can prompt you into action. But it's not good when you are so afraid that it keeps you from doing anything. He looked to his right, to the part of the maze where he had never been, and he felt fear. Then he took a deep breath, turned right, and he jogged slowly into the unknown. As he tried to find his way, he worried at first that he might have waited too long in Cheese Station C. He hadn't had any cheese for so long that he was weak. It took him longer. It was more painful than usual to get through the maze. He decided that if he had ever got a chance again, he would get out of his comfort zone and adapt to change sooner. It would make things easier. Then Ho smiled a weak smile as he thought, better late than never. During the next several days, he found a little cheese here and there, but nothing lasted very long. He had hoped to find enough cheese to take back to him and encourage him to come out. But Ho didn't feel confident enough yet. He had to admit that he found it confusing in the maze. Things seemed to have changed since the last time he was out here. Just when he thought he was getting ahead, he would get lost. It seemed his progress was two steps forward and one step back. It was a challenge, but he had to admit that being back in the maze hunting for cheese wasn't nearly as bad as he feared it might be. As time went on, he began to wonder if it was realistic for him to expect to find new cheese. He wondered if he had bitten off more than he could chew. Then he laughed, realized that he had nothing to chew on at that moment. Whenever he started to get discouraged, he reminded himself that what he was doing, as uncomfortable as it was at the moment, was in reality much better than staying in the cheeseless situation. He was taking control, rather than simply letting things happen to him. Then he reminded himself, if Sniff and Scurry could move on, so could he. Later, as Ho looked back on things, he realized that the cheese at Cheese Station C had not just disappeared overnight, as he had once believed. The amount of cheese that had been there towards the end had been getting smaller. What was left had grown old. It didn't taste good. Mold may even have begun to grow on the old cheese, although he hadn't noticed it at the time. He had to admit, however, that if he had wanted to, he probably could have seen what was coming. But he didn't. Ho now realized that the change probably would not have taken him by surprise, if he had been watching what was happening all along, and if he had anticipated change. Maybe that's what Sniff and Scurry had been doing. He decided that he would stay more alert from now on. He would expect change to happen. He would look for it. He would trust his basic instincts to sense when things were going to change. He stopped to rest, and he wrote himself yet another note. Smell the cheese often so you know when it's getting old. Some time later, after not finding cheese for what seemed like a long time, he finally came across a huge cheese station, which looked promising. When he went inside, he was disappointed to discover the station was empty. This empty feeling has happened to me too often, he thought. He felt like giving up. Ho was losing his physical strength. He knew he was lost, and he was afraid that he would not survive. He thought about turning around and heading back to Cheese Station C. At first, at least if he made it back, and him was still there, Ho wouldn't be alone. Then he asked himself the same question, what would I do if I wasn't afraid? Ho thought about his past fear, and he was afraid, more than he liked to admit, even to himself. He wasn't always sure what he was afraid of, but in his weakened condition, he knew now he was simply fearful of going on alone. Ho didn't know it, but he was running behind because he was still weighed down by fearful beliefs. Ho wondered if him had moved on, or if he was still paralyzed by his own fears. Then Ho remembered the times when he had felt his best in the maze. It was when he was moving. He wrote yet again another note to himself. Just in a new direction will help you find new cheese. He looked down the passageway, and he went off again, running, running. And as he ran down the passage, he realized more and more that the fear that he had in himself was greater than the things that were there to be afraid of. In other words, there was nothing in the passage to be afraid of, only just that it was unknown. He also realized that he had been kept captive by his fear for so long that it had stopped him from moving, but when he in fact started moving, the action had freed him, and when he felt the cool breeze blowing in the maze, it was refreshing. Every now and then he would find a little bit of cheese here and there to keep him going, but he knew that there must be something more out there, and he kept searching. And every time he would continue, he would give himself a mental image of himself finding the cheese, and he would tell himself, imagining yourself enjoying your cheese will lead you to it. As he started to find little bits of cheese, and as his belief grew stronger, he started to race through the maze, and he entered a new cheese station with great excitement, and he found a great deal of cheese. He finally made his way to Cheese Station N, and guess who he saw there? His old friends, Scurry and Sniff, and they had already been there for a long time. The story which I have simplified at the end there is really an illustration of what most of us are like in a situation that has changed. A lot of us refuse to pay attention to the situation that we're in because we want to retain the comfort that we've built up in it. A lot of us arrive in a new job, and we learn how it goes, and we realize this could be our cushy existence, and we put aside the idea of learning new things. If you think about the way Scurry and Sniff put their running shoes around their necks, ready to put on and go when they were ready, and Hem and Ho put away their shoes altogether because they didn't plan to ever run again, that is the equivalent of many things, but one of those things is not bothering to learn new things, not bothering to keep your CV up to date, not bothering to keep yourself excellent, not bothering to keep yourself sharp because you've found this cushy job and you're never going to leave it. That is the equivalent. It's Sniff and Scurry staying on top of things is how they were able to notice that something was changing about Cheese Station C, but Hem and Ho, because they refused to have their comfort compromised, were blinded to the fact that the quality of the cheese was changing, that the cheese wasn't as fresh as it used to be, that the quantity of the cheese was changing. They weren't paying attention to that. They were busy just enjoying this cheese that they now felt entitled to. They lost sight of the fact that there was a reason why the cheese appeared every day and this had nothing to do with them, and theirs was to seek out places where the cheese would appear, and they parked and built their entire lives around a particular cheese station, and when that cheese station disappeared, or when the cheese at that cheese station disappeared, there were options to stay and die, which one of the little people chose to do, or to face your fear and go out, even if it takes a little time to rev your engine, or to stay ready and be out as soon as the change happens. You can be any of those things, but choose not to be the person who stays and dies there. Choose to be the person who maybe takes you a little bit of time to rev your engine. Choose to be the person who stays ready if you can, but if you are not able to stay ready, if the change does come, do not be afraid to go out. Understand that it will be difficult because you haven't been running in the maze. You haven't been sharpening your skills. You're not on top of it like you were before, but you will figure it out. You just need to give yourself time, and when you get out there, you will find little bits of cheese here and there. You might find a lot of empty cheese stations, but you certainly won't be starving to death, emaciated and disempowered, angry and feeling like it's not fair that somebody didn't give you a piece of cheese like they always did, angry at the world for changing because it always changes. Then you go out there and you try a little bit of cheese here and a little bit of cheese there, and you find, hmm, I'm going in the right direction. Maybe this is not enough of the cheese that I want to build that life that I want, but I will keep going and I will keep searching, and then maybe you will find cheese stations in with a lot of cheese waiting for you. You might find Scurry and Sniff are already there because they stayed game ready, but that doesn't mean that you can't arrive and join them when you are ready too. The only true loss or the only true loser is the person who stays at cheese station C and slowly dies away while they hammer the walls and yell at the skies and demand that someone return their cheese and shout, who moved my cheese instead of moving to search for new cheese? And you have to ask yourself, which one of these people are you? Is it worth losing the potential of other cheese elsewhere to stay and bemoan the cheese that you did not get? Would you allow yourself to give up the hopes and the dreams and the life that could be purely because you want to rant and rave at the sky and say, why? Why me? When you could be out there feeling discomfort, but knowing that that discomfort is only for a limited time, that sooner or later you will find something, that this method that has been tried and tested, that you experiment, you go down that passage, you come back, you go down the other, you come back, and sooner or later you will find your cheese. So it's less about who moved your cheese and more about your ability to move with the cheese. The cheese could be anything in your life. It could be a relationship. It could be money, right? It could be your spirituality. It could be anything. Ask yourself, when somebody moved your cheese, when your cheese moved, how did you respond? Who were you? Were you him? Were you ho? Were you sniff? Were you scurry? Were you a little bit of them all? And who should you have been? What is changing in your life now because change is constant? Who of these four are you in that situation? I hope you enjoyed this episode of the pod, and I hope that you enjoyed the story as much as I did, and I know who I am in the story this time. I know who I've been in the story before, and I know that I have been every single one of the characters in this story at least one time. Each one has its strengths. Each one has its weaknesses. There are some that are stronger than others, but there is no shame in getting things wrong. There is no shame in hitting your head. There is no shame in being afraid. In fact, it applies to so many of us. The only thing you need to do is to step into the game regardless. Step into the maze regardless. Try something. Look for new cheese. You will eventually find it. Like any other skill, resilience is built up like a muscle, and you build up your resilience by continuing to use the muscle, by continuing to test it out, by continuing to challenge your fear. You need to learn to be in the car with fear in the backseat. Don't let it drive. Let your mind understand that you cannot eliminate fear, but you can put it in the backseat. The only danger is when fear drives, because fear will choose to die over trying something and potentially living forever. All right. Thank you for joining me, and if you liked the episode, please like, share, subscribe, leave me a review, talk to me about it. I truly appreciate it, and I truly appreciate you. Thank you so much.
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