Fiona Roberts

The speaker discusses their positive associations with Cathays Park in Cardiff. They mention the peacefulness of the park and how it provides a sense of calm and relaxation. They compare their experiences at different universities and how the presence of green spaces impacted their well-being. The speaker also talks about their research, which is based in Cathays Park, and how the different spaces in the museum and university building affect their feelings and comfort. Overall, the speaker has positive memories and associations with Cathays Park and finds it to be a valuable and important part of their university experience. I like the music more. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah. I think, um... Because it's so much easier. Like, the ones that they've suggested on the website are so neat and fun. It's really overwhelming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Are you happy to get started now though? Well, the noise hasn't subsided very much, has it? But it's really building. So, thank you for your time. I do appreciate it. It's a really broad question to start. I was going to ask, like, if I just said, Cathay's Park to you, like, what's your reaction? Like, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So, I think when we first started talking about it, I wasn't... When I thought of Cathay's Park, I think I thought of it including, like, Thieves Park. And I wasn't actually trying to make sure it's in this big area. Even though it said, like, at the top of the screen of, yeah, what it would actually look like. Like, geographically. Yes. What counts as it all. Exactly, yeah. And then I think that my... The times I've not been here, because even though I've been to Cardiff quite a few times before moving here, like, I maybe didn't come to this area. Yeah. But since moving here, like, I still think I have quite a positive association with it. I feel like... How do you mean by that? So, like, I... Maybe associate it with coming to lectures during my master's year. Okay. But then that wouldn't be, like, because it was after... That would come up straight after lockdown. I found it quite positive to, like, suddenly be in this space where you're around people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then I think I also really positively appreciate this park. What's that called again? Which one? The one right in front of this building. Oh, the London War Memorial. Yes. And Alexandra Gardens. Yeah. I find that just... I found that, like, a little moment of peace, like, before and after coming to lectures. I don't know if you mean walking through it, like, taking a short... Even if it takes a little bit longer to walk through it, in some cases. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're talking about how the university's kind of, I don't know if integrated is the right word, but, like, it's not separate from the, sort of, the park and everything, because... Yeah. Yeah. I really associate that with, like, the moments before and after coming to university. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how... Sorry, go on. Oh, and then I also feel like it also has really positive associations with that area in front of the museum, the Waterloo. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because it was just, like, a really peaceful space that is, like, going round between... In between places and stuff, a lot more than it seems to me. Yeah. Yeah. So do you... I'm just quite interested in what you're saying around how it's, sort of, peaceful. How would you think being able to do that has impacted your experience at university? Is it, like, a bit of a... I don't want to, like, leave you, but, like, a bit of a breather of, like, how has the experience of being able to go to the park between that and the weather, how do you think that impacted your experience at university? I think really good. Yeah, I think really good, because I know that I can feel, if I go into the green space, that I can feel that I become more relaxed or, like, less anxious. And I think that even if they couldn't put my finger on it, it's actually what I was doing, I think, walking through there before lectures is probably something that just made me feel that little bit calmer, I think. I think it is, yeah. Because you can, like, you suddenly hear birdsong, you see, like, flowers, you see people looking more relaxed, and there's a feeling that it's quite a nice contrast when you might be busy, and you're going to be chatting about something. Yeah, that's lovely. I'm just thinking, based on what you've been saying, like, how do you think your experience of university here might be different to, or how does it compare to your other experiences of university? So you said that you've done a Master's, so presumably you did undergrad, like, have you got any thoughts on that? Yeah, that's a really interesting question, because I think, before this, I was at Kent, and I think that was maybe even more of a strong effect than here, because the campus of Kent was really green, and my walk there was literally, like, down this, like, lovely hill, like, it was really comfortable going into and from university, and I, and they're like, and I was like, wow, this is really amazing. And so I just, it was a really nice thing to do that before and after, and I also, like, I would walk there and have, like, a walking meditation sometimes, isn't that really, like, useful? Yeah, so I think it had a similar effect at Kent, maybe even stronger, but then UCL was the opposite, because there were green spaces around, because it was so busy, and then after first year to get homework, I was often, like, getting a really busy tube for a bus. So the opposite is, I probably, like, got my stress levels a bit higher before going to UCL, and that probably did have an effect on how I felt there. That makes sense. So, what I think is really interesting, what you're saying is the huge contrast between the experiences, so you said, like, in Kent, it was, you talk about the rabbits and the, that was lovely, and then you were talking about, like, the city as well, and how maybe your experiences, I'm sort of getting that, maybe your experience of Cathays Park is a bit more, like, somewhere in the middle. I just wondered if you had any thoughts or comments on Cathays Park within the context of Cardiff? Does that make sense? As you mentioned that you're someone who's moved to Cardiff. How do you feel about Cathays Park in the context of the city? Does that make sense? Yeah, well, the thoughts that kind of I had as well was how, with Kent, like, I would never go there unless I was going to uni. I think here and also with UCL, it's like, I have memories of my life outside of work or uni that are within the space, and I think here it's not like I would have, like, nice memories of walking through this park with Alex or with his friends, or getting a coffee from Brody and sitting there, and, like, there's, like, there's lots of different areas of my life. Everything. Yeah. That's really interesting. I feel like I have, that maybe adds to the positive association as well, that it's not just I'm thinking about work here, I'm thinking about this nice memory I had with this person. Sure, yeah. I think that's really interesting, how you're talking about, it's more like your work life and then your kind of personal life as well. Like, have you got any thoughts on whether and how they might kind of relate to each other? Does that make sense? Yeah. That's a weird question. Yeah, no, no, it's good. The first thing that popped in my head is that maybe, like, doing a PhD, like, there's going to be less contrast. That feels like your work, that you're always a bit in the space of working. Yeah. And then, so there's less of a contrast. Being in this Cathay Park space is always a space where those two things are blaring off together a bit for me. Yeah, that makes sense. Would you mind telling me a bit more about your research and, like, generally, but also kind of elaborating on what you just said, like, how it relates to Cathay Park or your experience of it? Yeah, thanks. So, it's, my research is with the botany collection at the museum and then also with the social science department at Cardiff, so it's very Cathay Park-based. Yeah, yeah. And then it's looking at the economic botany collection in particular, so plants that were first collected during, well, actually, mostly collected during colonial times because they were seen as, like, useful plants that could be used for, like, industry or to build things from. And then it's looking at decolonising the collection and then focusing on plants from South and Southeast Asia. Thank you. You've got, like, what was I trying to say? I'm just wondering, like, how it's going and how do you feel about it specifically in terms of, so I said, I was talking about how it relates to Cathay Park, but, like, the university or the museum building, does that have any particular impact on your research, do you think? Yeah. I was thinking about this, actually, because on, when was it, last Wednesday I went to the museum, but I was mostly looking at, like, their computer database for, I was trying to pick, like, one of the plants to use for my research. Sure. But I was thinking about how the different spaces you're in in the museum, how they affected how I felt when I was kind of walking through them. Because I came in through the back entrance, which you know as well, and I think, when you're there and you're walking through the basement of the museum without all the doors, you almost feel like, if you don't get the natural daylight and you feel, it's a very particular kind of environment, like you're almost a bit like being on a ship or something, like you just were. And then I really, I was feeling like, as I came up into the botany department, it felt more familiar, because there's natural light, it felt more, maybe more like, a bit more welcoming, but then also I was thinking with this department as well, because there was a bit where there's suddenly some botanical illustrations on the wall, but nowadays, that feels like it could be like everyone's living room, because it's such a popular thing. So I was wondering maybe that made me feel a bit more at ease in the environment. Really interesting. But yeah, it's also interesting to think how that space is to others. It sounds like everyone's botany collection. Because the one that she's more of is like the, well they have the actual Economic Botany Collection, maybe it's also it was built in like the 60s or 70s, so it looks like that. But they have like this herbarium there that is like Victorian. It's really like an amazing building that like it feels like you've gone back in time. And I think the back of the museum in Cardiff, where the botany department is, it doesn't feel like you've gone back in time in that way. But I think the main entrance hall and the galleries do a bit like you feel like you have time travel back. In what way? What do you mean by that? Is it like the architecture? I think the architecture like is where we are now. I think it kind of feels a bit like that too, but maybe there's less. Which is like an old building. Which is an old building. Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, you feel even with like small things like chairs and tables, there are lots of details that make it feel like to be old. And you feel like because of that you're in an institution rather than someone's house from another state. Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you. Oh, so I'm just quite interested in so obviously you've described how you're involved with the museum and the university. Do you have any comments or thoughts on how those two institutions kind of intersect within your work, if that makes sense? So they're not both in a vacuum separately. Does that make sense? Or if you have any connections or thoughts about any other institutions in Cathay's Park as well maybe? So I think it reminds me of thinking back to like when the museum was founded and how I've seen recently in the archives how they had details about someone from the university coming to do a lecture series or some teaching in the botany department. So I think in the past there was this connection there which maybe is I think the connection is probably less now than it was then. But maybe because botany isn't that big part of biology now and it wouldn't be such an important subject as it was back in the 1920s or 30s. And then in another sense as well I have had the experience a few times of having a meeting here with most of the folks in the museum and then walking back through Cathay's Park to the museum afterwards. So in the days of my research there is that actual movement of me going between the places. I think there's probably a lot of connections in between the two that are maybe just a bit hidden now. But if you looked into them you might be able to find like if you looked at archival stuff where people used to teach what to come up with. And then in the actually I think it was just in the 2007, but there used to be a botany collection that was part of the pharmacology thing. And so someone donated a lot of stuff that they'd collected from overseas for teaching. And then in the catalogue for that in the museum there's like a lot of very specific scientific information. More so than the other things. I was just picking up on something that you said. So you were talking about the importance of botany kind of historically. Just because I don't know as much about botany as you do. What do you mean by that? Like where does it come from? So it was more important to be accurate until like the 1950s. Because that was where plastic-based products became much more popular. And then the funding declined as well. And then also like the botany museum collections became less important as well. There was a switch. And at that point as well lots of the collections started moving around and disbanding. Because at that point it was really important to understand the relationship between the plant that you collected and the final product. Often they were displayed in initiative series. So you'd have like another example of it. You'd have the original plant and then like different stages on the way to the product. It's being woven and then into the thing. But at this time when botany started to decline then they got moved around. So often like the cultural items would go to an ethnographic museum. And then the others would be in the Natural History Department. And in Cardiff, I don't know when this happened actually. I need to find out. But then a lot that went to Senfag and the cultural items in the collection. There aren't too many though. I was just about to ask if you had any thoughts about what you're talking about within the context of Wales or like the National Museums for Wales as a network. Does that make sense as opposed to if they were in London or something? I actually need to look more into the interconnections in Wales. I know that in terms of the interconnection between England and other cities and this happened a lot of the time like Kew Gardens, which has a relationship with other colonial botanic gardens. And these stuff would be sent to Kew. And then the Economic Botany Collection is at I'm guessing at Sunree. Their keeper basically wrote to Kew and was like, do you have any duplicates of things? And then they have them. And then sometimes they get them sent to you too. But then they also like, I think you could advertise in other places or you could at this time have lists of another department called the Imperial Institute and they had a list of like, if you wanted something they had the list of like, these are the spices and proteins. So you could sort of like exchange and I guess it was quite personal as well because often people would give specimens to certain institutions because they might like it on there more than they might not. I need to think more about how that would work with the other museums in Wales and the stuff that's left with that exchange of patents in Wales as well. It's really interesting. Maybe not so much how this relates to Wales and its institutions, but just how do you feel about doing this kind of research in Wales? In Wales? If you have any. Yeah, well in terms of the decolonisation process, it's interesting because of the, I don't know, paradox of that word, but decolonising and colonising at the same time. But then I'm also quite interested in how that dynamic is the same or different in other former colonies as well, where there's also the, just other imbalances of power that might just be a bit different now. Then in terms of botany, well one of the things I thought was quite interesting was I was looking at this exhibition that the museum had in 1939 which was called Plants and the Service of Man and then in this they wanted to show what plants were useful to man. Okay. But they really, in their thinking and panel on that, they really divided Wales and overseas in like this. They were like doing this restaurant. You can kind of tell that's very interesting. You can tell a bit that they were trying to kind of balance or battle the family by being something that represented Wales and being able to represent other places as well. And I think they literally did it by having some spoke up and some welshed up. But then in the exhibition they talk about the overseas things. There's a lot of exoticism and stuff like that, those kind of words. Far away land. Yeah. And I also was like I haven't done that too much yet. Because my dad's side is half welsh and half english and my mum's side is an anglo-indian background. So then I wondered, interestingly, on both sides the contrast, there's a power imbalance within both of those. That's very interesting. Yeah. Maybe thinking more about how does that impact on your work or your experience of the museum or Cochains Park or something. As opposed to, because we've talked before about the fact that you're somebody who has moved to Cardiff. There's also other you think there's sort of other things that might be relevant as well. Yeah. Yeah. Because I wonder I don't know how much it relates to Cochains Park but just in my I guess I never think about the fact that I had welsh heritage in a way that maybe someone else in England, maybe a bit more context but still not that much. But a little bit there. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny like with the museum as well. One of the things I keep meaning to do but I haven't is use the library on the top. I actually think that it's because of how it kind of feels a bit intimidating. Yeah, because it's like it's so grand and it's in the way and it's so high up and it's quite difficult. And I wonder like my experience as a student like I know other students go and use it but like actually it's something about the building that is affecting my thinking. Is it can you just clarify is it the fact that you've seen it but you've not really used it very much have you actually been there? Yeah, I've been there a couple of times only to like actually when I was doing I needed to look at a book but apart from that being like I just literally go and then I end up somewhat more welcoming. That's interesting. Are there any particular aspects of that space that might be the reason why you find it intimidating? So you talked about how you find the library space a little bit intimidating and I'm just interested in why that might be or what about it is intimidating to you? Like where we are now they have that bright grey carpet and those very brown iconic walls and I think in that library as well they have lots of big paintings of the white male. And then also it may also be like the actual furniture that's there looks very like grand. It feels weird to be sitting on the same thing. It's basically relaxed. Yeah, that's really interesting. And actually I think if I remember right a lot of the desks are like single desks which might have been all this time because I feel like now we're used to having more communal stuff that feels more relaxed that maybe in the past would have been in more informal spaces but maybe it was very like of a museum type. You're talking about within academia the changes in the kind of experience of libraries. Now it feels very relaxed like even in some rooms here you have these chairs that swivel around and have the table that you can move and I guess you could trace how that changed over time. I'd not thought of that. That's so interesting. Yeah, thank you. I was wondering if you had experience of any other buildings in place parts. We've talked about the university and the museum and I just wanted to give you a bit of space to, if relevant, talk about any other buildings. When you're talking about libraries it reminds me of the Buick Library and that kind of thing so I was just wondering if you've been to any other buildings. I've worked in the Buick Library a few times but not that much and I also I don't really like the environment in there that much but it's more I just it feels slightly it feels a bit like it feels like it hasn't really been changed much since maybe the 90s and I enjoy the environment. Yeah I've had a bit of experience of that and then also I don't like where does Cathay Park end again? The Student Life Centre, is that outside of it? There's no kind of it's a difficult one I feel like it's not for me to say but I think with the Centre of Student Life it's clearly responded to that space hasn't it? because sort of architecturally it fits, it's like that white stone isn't it? I saw a sign earlier that was pointing to the Civic Centre but it so I felt like that was a bit of saying this isn't the Civic Centre, it's that way do you know what I mean? I don't know where the actual boundary is and it's interesting that those boundaries are still stuck to because like normally cities naturally like expand but if they were really strict it would ignore the way that cities naturally change I guess like the Student Union that must have been built in the 70s or something I'm not sure that must have just been like we need a bit more space I'm not sure I think and it's funny how that the Student Union they actually tried to make it more fitting later on by adding the Commons yeah that's so interesting so then asking does the Centre for Student Life count, was there anything particular that you wanted to comment on about that? I don't really just but I've used that quite a bit, like I've used that in the Student Union a bit more and then the kind of the buildings in this part I've used a bit less just because they tended to either be based here and then I didn't end up exploring the other university buildings that much this and the Duke Library are maybe the ones I've used most and then the Student Union and Centre for Student Life they're just study spaces and then I do like a yoga class in the evening but probably the ones that I frequent for myself are probably the outdoor ones because if I'm walking around Cardiff I'd rather walk through here than not I think I'd rather like a nicer walk to come through the park it's a bit quieter there'd be less cars Oh so I've just got the question is there a specific object or building in the park that you think is significant or particularly interesting to you so I'm kind of differentiating between what are the buildings and spaces that you use a lot versus are there any that you think are particularly interesting or significant or important I mean there might not be but yeah I think well I think there's a couple of things to think about because I find this interesting straight away as like actually maybe the way that it's planted and like the landscape the gardening yeah because you were talking about your involvement with botany with botany that's really interesting I remember seeing a list of like the best places to see spring blossom in the UK and then Alexandra Gardens came up within that list so then the next time I walked through I was like I know that I found this really pretty with all the trees, I mean I didn't actually realise that compared to the whole of Cardiff and they actually do one of the nicest but then I guess like the trees were planted and also in Gorseth Gardens I remember doing an interview for my master's there he's from South India saying that he really liked the banana plant and then every time I walked past I remember that and I noticed that the banana trees were there and that he was really impressed that they were doing so well in the cold climate yeah and I guess the bit next to there the stonehenge kind of yeah I know what you mean the Gorseth stones I actually don't really know the story behind it but I think they're quite cool and then also the trees that I think you said to me before have like the like ribbons on it I find that really interesting too how what was the reason? oh it's a memorial to people who died in the 80s during the 1980s yeah is that way that sometimes trees are like memorial trees and then trees can be like sacred I find that a really interesting topic because I once wrote an essay about how I compared like Singapore and this is unique but looking at how sometimes trees actually stop the city developing in certain ways because they became sacred or they have been sacred so there's one in Singapore where like when people tried to dig there there was something that was put down for like spiritual reasons they were just like no we're not doing it and then that still stayed there even when so many others had been like oh so the way that these trees then shaped the landscape really yeah you mentioned that you'd done a bit of research kind of looking at other spaces in other cities like I'm just interested in how you feel they might compare to Kutaisi Park so I just wanted to clarify what kind of spaces they were were they also kind of sacred yeah the tree one I just mentioned I think that was outside of the civic centre I think it was maybe like an area that had stayed rural for much longer it had been much bit more like 20 years ago 20, 30 years ago yeah when I was in the civic centre of Singapore I was also thinking about how it compared to the one in Cardiff because I hadn't really been I guess until we spoke about this one I'd never thought that much about what the civic centre was I didn't write myself and believe that in Singapore the civic district is very much in a colonial era and it still looks a lot like it it did in the past and there's bits of debate because they're like English, like a founder of Singapore he has a statue there and I think there was debate about that recently about like should we have this even though I think people in Singapore it's still not that big a topic to be colonisation there and then there's because when Singapore was being becoming more like populist the colonial government literally like went this is the colonial area and this is where we live, this is where people from China live but you can still so when you're there have this very like, this history that's very intertwined with the colonial government which maybe is actually brought through quite a lot when you're there in the history that might be like on street placards or something more than here, like there's maybe more information just on the street on the buildings than in this civic district I was going to ask you when you were talking about colonialism how that was apparent in this piece but you had such an example there when you talked about that stuff it was very obviously sort of you know separated from something more I know like, and there are some things that aren't as obvious but for my parents having moved here before then I heard the stories because like in this district a really large amount of land is still because of the land and it used to be colonial cricket grounds and so that's still there oh yeah here we go just before I said because of the noise what were we talking about yeah we were talking about other sort of not equivalent, that's not the right word but other kind of civic spaces that we play in yeah so we have one um I'll just leave it running I'll shut it up it's very echoey isn't it so you talked about your parents and your kind of different types of heritages, that's the word that you used but I was wondering if your parents had ever said to you what they might think have they just yet they haven't, so my sister did her undergrad at Cardiff and so I think they'd maybe a couple of times spent and sort of looked around the university but my first of all my dad particularly he was very proud of his Welsh heritage I think he liked it but they instead of moving here they like dropped me off and they stayed one night and then they came for like a weekend in like spring but yeah we did come to Hayes Park quite a bit maybe because I wanted to show the museum so we did that and then also when we were walking around this area actually like some stories we often talked to the museum because they wanted these balloons in there it was actually like a public space and actually in the museum what you've got down to the leaf you can't just look around because you're so kind of deep within to me we did that and then we kind of walked out of the space but we went into Park and I had like a picnic there one night but yeah I don't know what they've expressed about Cardiff as a whole I think my dad's always just a very interested in the history of this land and my mum likes kind of the custom and bustle of the centre I don't know if they've expressed what they think of it compared to other cities I think they probably like it a lot more than something like London because it's too busy Sure but it was in my head when I plan where to show people or take them I'll walk through this bit because the buildings are beautiful and all so it's like a nice thing to see and understand a bit about the heritage of Cardiff by looking through it Thank you That leads quite nicely into a question about is there anything that you think is kind of unique about Cade Park or what is it about Cade Park that you think is well clearly interesting enough to show people about compared to other spaces Within Cardiff or with other cities? Just in general Within Cardiff maybe if we're talking about people visiting Cardiff isn't it I think this space also feels to me it feels very like still and serene, it feels quite tranquil in a way, I don't know maybe once you're in this kind of park there's like busy traffic or that ramping path going apart so it feels like compared to the rest of Cardiff it feels quieter in this space That makes sense I think especially the park has ended up even more so but going this way and getting to Cate and stuff feels very different and I like Cate for other reasons I like how it's more busy and bustling and then the town centre has so many people and so much going on because it's very close to the centre it just has this feeling of like tranquility as well I think that's what makes it feel different to the other because you talked about how it relates to the heritage of Cardiff so I was quite interested in what you meant by that but you've already kind of talked about it in the context of how it relates to other spaces like the city centre or Cate as a not so much Cate as a park but Cate as a regional area of Cardiff so I was just wondering what do you mean by heritage of Cardiff? I guess there's just like the history of it that's unique and maybe just the fact that they're in this area I actually just remembered when I first moved here I just remember thinking the Google Maps telling me a footage of a walk past Alexander Garden and I'd never been there before and then I remember meeting my friend up and being like that was a really nice walk I didn't know it was there but I think there's actually a lot of the kind of when I'm saying that I'm talking more about the feeling I get there because until recently I didn't actually know much about the history of this area and maybe I associated it with other university areas but it's more than that isn't it so it is, when I think about heritage I'm like I guess it's coming from more of a feeling even than my knowledge there's an area in the city that feels like this that's I think when I'm showing people around that's what I'm thinking in a way like the specific feeling yeah like maybe like the apple thing a bit I don't know I don't know if it's difficult to try and put that into words so what what do you mean by like yeah those specific ambiences yeah I just maybe like the feel of it like the rhythm of the space like the yeah like how maybe like what your sensory experience in the space was like I think maybe when I'm travelling to places I like that's what I enjoy sitting in maybe and that's something that there is a specific sensory experience being in this part even if it's something that I don't know the history behind or why it might feel like that I'm still enjoying feeling it I'm also wondering like I haven't made it actually taken it into much but I know on the other side of the garden there are lime trees and I think that would give you a particular sensory experience when they're flowering I think when they're all flowering yeah how were you kind of made aware of the lime trees is it just that you can recognise them or if you've come across any works in a museum I know because when I was doing my Masters I had a friend that said that you could pick the flowers and they actually if you see a lot of the tranquillity you get it's also known as linden tea okay so when I lived with this friend she sometimes would make a pot of and I think she actually had some dried leaves but then during lockdown I was always trying to look for these trees because I was like I can try to make my own tea like foraging kind of thing yeah yeah I think since doing that Masters it's interesting to think what is around you like in terms of plants you might not need to straight away get used to but once you can identify a couple there's like that knowledge and the things you might relate to them are kind of different yeah so you're talking about seeing them in a particular context yeah in what kind of in what kind of way so if you talked about you know maybe if you saw these flying leaves that you have for tea or flowers or whatever they are if you saw it in kind of I don't know like a person's castle or something what is it about seeing them in a particular part that you think is different yeah does that make sense I guess the maybe to do with the senses that you gave in museums a lot of the time because you know there's things about like the visual order in museums and the visual being more important than other senses the kind of thinking that went into creating museums so I think in the collection there are probably slight things that happen like the smell or you wouldn't be able to taste it if I picked them when you're walking under trees you're feeling like a sense of you feel much smaller than them and you feel that and you just wouldn't be able to get that in a museum getting just a section of the wood or a flower when you said that I had a very specific memory of walking under the trees in Alexandra Gardens blossoms in spring that's so nice you get a clear memory when you've done that I guess we appreciate it better than other cultures like in Japan you plan a week around being with them so you're talking about the kind of connection or not as the case may be between people and I was going to say nature but nature that's around you rather than just abstractly nature does that make sense? and then in cities you might not know it's there and we might be blind to what the plants are and I don't know what most of the ones in Alexandra Gardens are but if you knew it would be a very different experience and then I told you the story before of how Alex if he leaves the road he takes them from the park on his way home from Alexandra Gardens if he has one but he likes more than the other do you know how that came about? I think he just walked past and he was like he got very excited it's more of a Mediterranean dance when he was at home when he was more used to seeing it maybe there were aspects of it like the Italian dance yeah that makes sense so it's a plant that he's used to use it not just like he knew what it was but like maybe do you know how he used it? um how did he maybe in a soup you know when it's like a bean soup yeah and I think he got them to sit in there yeah and I think it was a bit of like he got more excited about it I think it was a bit of like I don't know yeah but it's funny how like sometimes the fact that an edible plant is growing in the city centre makes you less likely to want to consume it because I think it was the the lime tree flowers I was like ooh is there a bit too much like car I thought yeah because of the trees being there maybe you have a quite different relationship yeah but I'd actually love to know the banana trees in Northern Ireland like do they have them like why were they planted there yeah that would be interesting oh yeah I had a question about if you have been to any particular events that could take part so if we're thinking about it as a public space we have this element of you've talked quite a lot about how you use it in your sort of everyday life of your studies and even outside of work but I'm just wondering if you have experience of or any comments about like a specific event that you might have been to yeah I think it's probably limited to like university or museum I don't think I've been to any public one I feel like I've walked past areas being like cordoned off and I've actually never really been in the Winter Wonderland yeah um yeah so it would probably be like in terms of events like the Declan Mendington Morgan one the other week okay can you tell me about that or your involvement in it yeah so that was just um maybe prompting the discussion of how you could declare my building that way and right now and so it was things like people were talking about we couldn't do it because it was raining we were talking about a walking tour of the area and then someone spoke as well about the actual features of the meeting room we were in and how that related to colonial history and how that kind of intersected with um like women's rights and other things as well at the same time so that was interesting engaging in the building in a specific way and then also in the museum um I don't know if Vanessa had these too and then also like the PhD um induction event which was always quite interesting at the museum so it was like looking around different parts of the museum during the tour and seeing parts you wouldn't be able to see and seeing how the department connects together as well how did you feel doing that? really excited I'm enjoying doing these tours yeah you something about being behind the scenes that's all very exciting sure and even in other museums seeing how things work yeah would you say like what is it about being in that space that's exciting? yeah I think like um lots of like things that feel meaningful or like that feel important and that when you're in a room I don't know like I've always found that sometimes if you explore a heritage site and you're on the road or there's less people you kind of can feel the energy of it in a different way like I don't know maybe it's Stonehenge and like you're queuing to see it the magic of it feels like you're lost in that environment that being behind the scenes in a museum storeroom and it's like you're like just you and your supervisor and you feel a sense of magic of being able to discuss so many stories and that it sounds like so you were talking about with the Stonehenge a few months ago and then you talked about maybe it's just you and your supervisor so maybe there's an element of it's like it's a bit exclusive like fewer people can do that if that makes sense I think you feel privileged to be able to be in that space and to see it like that yeah I guess also there's a bit of like knowledge like the last one the art coliseum for people restoring paintings and see like how one had when they were on the first page they painted a portrait and you can actually see the portrait from a different angle all those little details and the knowledge of people working there so you're talking about like a specific kind of knowledge that not necessarily many people would have if you're talking about the sort of art conservatory yeah I guess you get to see them doing the craft and maybe you don't actually see that in others I think that's something that's quite nice about it and then I do I think if I'm like holding the plant specimens sometimes I feel like I just feel like I'm holding something that not that many people have held and that it feels like there's a story to it but also like I feel slightly uncomfortable with the idea that it's exclusivity of it that I enjoy that's something that my value is getting yeah it's okay but yeah sorry, I don't mean to interrupt I'm just asking to elaborate or clarify what you're saying you're talking about how you feel you enjoy the exclusivity of the experience maybe that's not the right word but the fact that you're able to experience certain things that are not an experience that lots of people can experience but then you talk about how that goes against your values would you mind talking about what you mean by those values I think that I don't agree with museums only being places for certain people for sure and that it should be more open and it should be people like me with a background that is just relatively privileged and able to come in and be just as strong because of that so that's what makes me uncomfortable about it and I think in my head I'm thinking I'm enjoying this because I feel a sense of connection to the person who brought this to someone from a long time ago and that's quite beautiful but actually I think part of it is that it feels special to be able to have that but I also think that there's maybe an element as well when it comes to being in a space that not many people go in almost like it feels a bit more like if you go in a church an old church and there's lots of people in there almost a sense of the kind of sacredness of it or the quiet and the tranquility disappears if it was just you in the church you would feel that quite a lot so I think there's an element of that in being in the storeroom so I think what you're talking about is less kind of your thoughts about it which might be I feel kind of positively about the fact that I can experience this and maybe it's not a common experience for lots of people and then you're talking about more your reaction to being in the physical space because I can see what you're saying in terms of like if you go to a church and it's really busy and lots of tourists around compared to if you experienced it when it was empty so can you see how I'm sort of reflecting on what you're saying, it's more to do with the actual experience of being in that space yes, I think that's what it is the experience of holding something in your hand that is quite special in a way, that's that same feeling for me of like yeah, of maybe like yeah it's something to do with the space or the environment or the object being something that's quite special and being able to interact with it and I feel yes, I'm enjoying that yeah why do you think it's special or what about it is special hmm yeah, I guess it's I guess it's like in terms of holding objects, it's often that like maybe like a similar feeling that I get in an antique shop or something like that it's like something that's very awkward and it's got someone's handwriting from a long time ago and it just, it looks so different to things that you I'm seeing every day and holding, but it's really about the way it feels or what it smells it feels like something out of the ordinary yeah it's really interesting and maybe it's like the musical story that feeling of being in an antique shop as well, it's just like mysterious stories around you yeah yeah so when you say mysterious, it's a bit like there's some kind of history or story or something there but it's not necessarily hidden it's not well known or it's not hidden and covered I'm just getting this sense of like potential maybe from what you're saying yeah yeah and I think sometimes with heritage and heritage spaces that there is that feeling of like there's just a lot of different stories that happen to you, and I like being around them, flipping around the thoughts of the people a long time ago having relived their lives and behaving properly that's something you've mentioned a few times about this connection to people in the past are there any would you say it's kind of just the fact that there is this connection to people in the past, or is it a specific kind of person that you can think of or what was I going to say is it like people who've also used these spaces I don't mean to bombard you with loads of questions I'm using it as an example, but like what do you mean by that connection to people well I think because probably what I would be most interested in is like people like me in the past but maybe like in the absence of being able to get closer to that then I'm interested in it more widely like even if I feel because yeah, if you were to say like like you go to a place where your great-great-grandmother lives that would be like top of my list I feel excited enough by it that even if it's people that I'm not that connected with or might not agree with in another place I still like that feeling it's always like ideally you would like to have that connection with somebody that you do have something in common with or feel connected to in some way but if that's not possible it's almost like you're interested in who was here then what is the connection something like that yeah I think that's what you bring back to me it's interesting to think like that there may still be other things going on with me wanting to feel like that or feeling like that maybe like coming from or having grown up in the UK and having like a mixed heritage background like that is more accessible to you than like my mum but maybe there's something in that yeah when we went in we probably went to the museum that was specifically about her Eurasian heritage she had that feeling when she felt very connected that she felt excited to be in that place to learn about something she felt so close to but whether she would feel that in the same way that is another thing that we're going to have to deal with I just want the I'm going to pause it right yeah it's playing again because it got noisy again oh um about my mum yeah we were talking about like connection to people in the past what was really interesting I'm also like I definitely feel like I'd be more interested in a public a more public space like this even though it's probably still a privilege then I would be than I am in like a palace or a castle more like the everyday person's life than someone's so when you say like everyday kind of person's life what kind of people do you think that would be if we're talking about practice oh yeah I don't know but my my guess would be that um maybe people from an upper class background who might have been able to go to university at that time who would have worked at museums and who might have lived close to here depending on where people lived around the city that is interesting I'm thinking about how that might have been different maybe so like who worked at the museum and who used the space of Cathays Park versus who was living in the surrounding area yeah because you'd have to because even now like for it to be somewhere you pass through on purpose it has to be well it has to be like reasonable like you're not going to do a 40 minute walk instead of a 20 minute one just because this is prestige you might do one that's 5 minutes longer I think yeah so yeah like who lives nearby who's in 42 and that you know I've always wondered about that area of housing yeah yeah because it's private which is interesting right next to the big expanse and to have such big houses in the central area like unusual doesn't it like normally you might not be found to have more people living it feels so exclusive to people that they've just never really lived she's getting a dark eye for us it's interesting what difference if it's centred what components they may not have it's more the same as a cricket ground that's been designed 100 years and it's still used for like political rallies but then when it's not it's used by people to do sports that's a privilege right when I was living there in the 70s there was like maybe it stopped but Keith was a member of this cricket club and when he talked about it I was just like laughing laughing but then and I think in colonial times there was like two clubhouses on either end and one you had to be colonial and then the other one if you were Eurasian it was like oh yes like they were front of the door deciding to be members wow good and the way they've adapted those buildings to be more relevant now like there's an art gallery in an old single building that looks a lot like these that they've built almost like a brass structure to come top of it that looks like traditional like fascist asians roofing, so they've kind of adapted that to make it reflect their kind of colonial status yeah and I don't know if Wayne would have done that in a way it seems like whether they would potentially consider doing that in the future maybe I don't know how much they can like it has been happening because I wonder if this gave like I guess maybe the decision to maybe like plant more daffodils or something in the garden, that might be like that coming through do you feel like they have to plant more daffodils that have really different traits there which is interesting I think there are a lot more daffodils here than in other you're right in the spring I think that might be that choice of what to grow in the garden as in like a Welsh thing yeah I haven't thought of that it's really nice isn't it yeah that kind of leads us quite well into, I had some questions around more kind of the future of Cathays Park or more like yeah, thinking about what it would you know, its ideal usual look or whatever yeah so I just, thanks, I just had this question about you know, is there something that you would like to see in the park, so it could be a particular you know building, sculpture you know, an aspect of the environment, like that or like a physical aspect of the environment or otherwise sorts of in terms of like its use or layout or anything it's really interesting the first thing that pops into my head is the garden because what I'm studying as well is the garden aspect of it because like what we were just saying about how well change can be represented through vectors, but also how when someone I interviewed from South India like just really enjoyed seeing the banana plant there because you would kind of think like often I think you think, oh we can't represent plants in the living form outside because of the weather and very different climate, but actually looking at the banana plant shows that you actually can but we're just maybe not challenging that sort of thing so I'm wondering like within that planting as well yeah you could think about people in that space as well, like how as well as vegetables and things that represent Wales, you could represent other people from other cultures living in Wales within that space that's a good idea because I guess in both you have the conservatory which is also an opportunity to do that, and in this exhibition I said about in the 1930s they did get given spice leaves and stuff from that conservatory so that's thinking about how you can bring plants as like a living breathing thing that actually like the chef I talk to to walk past and see the banana plant like how this space could be something that even just walking outside you get a different experience yeah I think it's interesting that you just made a link between Cathays Park and Rose Park isn't it, so kind of the wider context of parks in Cardiff I suppose I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that, or do you use the other parks does that make sense I think that like because there is an element of that where you walk there's an element of convenience to it and so like I would be more deliberate with going to Rose Park or Cathays Park rather than this one because I can't really get there on my way to something else unless I go to like Albany Road then I can walk through Rose Park but I guess the thing that comes to mind when you said that is that it's interesting that with the other parks in Cardiff they fit the description of like a natural space only like without that much architecture but that this park the meaning is interesting isn't it like the buildings there are parts of the park and they're actually green spaces okay the way you think about it is that the they're not separate, it's not like there's buildings and then there's park spaces from what you've just said the way you sort of think about it is that the buildings are the park, they are parts of the park, that's really interesting yeah because when you think of Cathays Park like in my head I'm like that's this park Cardiff and that's the museum the park and the museum but Rose Park I like I'm seeing very much as like this green space designed for like leisure sure yeah interesting yeah yeah thank you it's really interesting oh yes I have this question about are you aware of or do you have any comments on any kind of tensions or difficulties around to do with the park and it's use you mentioned earlier that you don't go to Winter Wonderland, is that just you're not interested or like because you can see the different uses of the park I just wondered if there's any if you wanted to comment on that or any other kind of tensions you might have I think it's probably like maybe it might be linked to my sense of I don't really like the aesthetics of like yeah I find it like I don't know, it doesn't really appeal to me I find like the music is too loud that I don't like sort of like flashing lights and yeah and then also like I don't feel like I don't really like the way it's designed in a way, like I prefer and I guess we have it too but like when you have kind of markets maybe in the country and maybe there's like a band or something, it's a bit more chill I think yeah, yeah because I'm just thinking when you said that like some parks have like bounce stands and things like that don't they but then that's not the case with Chase Park that's never occurred to me before yeah, yeah, so they have there is this element of kind of entertainment but it maybe I mean you could say you don't like it in itself because of all the you know, noise and lights and things but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on how do you feel about one to one's land as an aspect of Chase Park because it could be, they could have put it somewhere else in the city, does that make sense? It is interesting isn't it because it does yeah like you say there's no park it wasn't designed in a way to be like we're going to bring people here to sit and watch something or to share but yeah that I probably would like it being used for that if because I really don't like the kind of sensory experience of being in the park for me I like it feels like a contrast between the other parts of it that feel very like calm and quiet I'm just thinking because we're talking about Winter Wonderland do you have any thoughts or comments on how your experience of Chase Park might change seasonally really because we also talked about Boston earlier didn't we yeah well I do know that like um when I walk through Gorseth Gardens recently I've been like noticed the music and I think like I wouldn't sit outside really because yeah and then in the park a couple of times in the summer if I've got a parking permit instead of going back into a building I'd be like oh I might just sit here even on the grass for a bit and then I find that I end up maybe using View Park more because I'm like oh it's just over there and I sort of keep walking when you say on the grass do you mean um where do you mean in the park? oh yeah the bit where the Winter Wonderland is now oh ok you told me about how in the summer maybe you would use that space and kind of sit on the grass and relax whereas because of the Winter Wonderland you would be more kind of you might avoid that space yeah I definitely wouldn't like yeah I would avoid it I definitely wouldn't feel like I wanted to like sit on the grass and like take in yeah yeah so we're talking about how your experience changes seasonally in terms of like the spaces that you use really I mean I think like if I were to arrange meetings or anything if the weather allowed for it I would say sitting outside Brody just because I like how I feel in that space I can feel more relaxed because it's more natural makes sense I've just got some questions about so there's a distinction between I've just asked what would you like to see or how do you feel about it and what do you think the future of the park could look like or what do you think it might look the future might be of the park yeah I wonder I wonder about I don't know too much about it but how much debate about who is being represented in monuments or things like that is represented into the Caves Park space but maybe it will enter more in the future I could imagine in like 2030 it might really everyone's thinking about this might progress a lot and that may change I guess the music could change a lot as well from that kind of progression as well too when you say like represented, how do you mean or how would you like to see that representation yes so like rather than I guess the representation is still stuff, well not all but like if there's statues or monuments that are remembering stuff from like 100 years ago from now the priorities might change if that becomes more and more maybe like the war memorial as well that could be something that that changes thinking about decolonisation and how heritage represents everyone I hope that that will change that will enter into it more yeah it's just very interesting because so much of this space is such like very solid architecture and you can change what's within the spaces but I don't know if anyone will ever make the decision to actually change the architecture for all people but there's only so much the insides that they can change yeah yeah and I wonder if like yeah I guess like different urban having decisions like where the cars go where the population of cars get bigger and they have like that area where all the big houses are they going to have to change that or build more densely yeah so when you're talking about the population of Cardiff might change it kind of reminds me of if we're thinking about Cathays Park as a public space I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that as a, so we've talked about we've talked a lot about it as a space and your experience of it but I just wondered if you had any thoughts on it as a public space for you know other people or other communities or does that make sense like people beyond your experience yeah I guess at the moment like I wonder if you're not because if you're going to a museum you might, it feels more like you might come from town to Cardiff and to there it really feels like if you're not coming to the university it might be you may not make the decision to come through there so I guess you would need to actually change I mean hold events will actually change what the purpose of things are so there is a reason for people to come through there I think that's really interesting because I've had public space but what we're talking about is it's not all completely public in the same way like with the museum if it's open you can just walk in whereas we were just talking about why would you come to the building unless you had like a specific purpose so there's that nuance of what does public space mean which is quite interesting yeah is it open to everyone or is it just open to certain people who and then the areas that are outside like because there's always the element of convenience in cities like you're not going to go to the other side all the time you don't live there so maybe the purpose of these spaces are going to have to change before people will come it's like a good enough reason for people to make that decision so you're talking about how people move around cities and having a reason to go to a specific part of the city yeah what's interesting about places like there's not really many like food and drinks is it because you've got no license there's a historic thing about erm it can't be for like commercial purposes but I don't saying that I don't know how the university catering get around that I suppose because it's within the university purpose isn't it or the museum as well but I think there's something around like they wouldn't be able to just open a shop or like yeah that's also something like you I know it's strange for an area that's central to the city to not have food or cafes or drinks and also something that can give that personal touch to people when you go and talk to you and you know it's open to you in a way that a university cafe doesn't feel open to you yeah that's really interesting yeah thank you erm and then I just had a I just wanted to give you a bit of space to mention anything else that you feel might be interesting or useful that we haven't discussed although we have discussed quite a lot yeah that's really interesting I think yeah I guess my experience of this is probably very different to someone who doesn't have a link to the university like I think you've walked past but you wouldn't have an understanding of what these buildings are like from the inside but I feel like having my student card just opens up this area much more wide way than someone who's not a student I think yeah absolutely that makes sense and I do know like otherwise you literally if you wanted to go to a cafe you would just discard this whole area yeah yeah that makes sense I did have a question that I've just thought of I was just wondering if you feel that your experience of Cretace Park like how has that changed over time so I'm not quite clear like how long you've been in Cardiff or how long you've been involved with the university but you mentioned like your Masters and I know you're doing a PhD now so like yeah have you got any thoughts on how that might have changed over time yeah so like if I were I remember when I visited my undergrad I was in London and my boyfriend went to Cardiff so I remember like I didn't remember this area too clearly except for like the mega bus stop would be yeah yeah and then I remember when I came to visit my friend like we'd maybe walk through sometimes but and the other funny thing that's come to my head is like I remember when Pokemon Go was a thing she pointed to Gold's Nest Garden and I was like that's the place, there's like a Pokemon Go store and then I remember like every time I pass I'm like loads of teenagers and I'm like which is so interesting because that's like the digital space that's mapped into the actual place and I think it's changed how people use it but then so now I've been in Cardiff for like just over two years and I guess now it's just like I guess it's an area that I like identify with a lot because it is I'm a student and this is the studenty area and I like the museum and that's there so yeah I guess it feels I've felt more connected with it over time because my experience of Cardiff is not just a place I pass through but someone else tells me about a different place I've used I don't know if progression is the right word but you're going from oh that's just where the bus stop is to oh you might wander through and then you've sort of described in a lot of detail your involvement with the park so it's become more so over time I just wondered if you had any thoughts on so I asked before what you think the future of the park might be but do you have any thoughts on how your involvement with the park might continue or change? Yeah I think well I think maybe if the PhD continues hopefully I'll be more connected to the museum sure I guess I don't know what will happen after my PhD whether in terms of work if I if the choice of work would determine my relationship with this area quite a lot so if I didn't work at university or museum then I would probably be in a very different area of the city and I might not pass due here before yeah yeah so it's like yeah my career is very related to this area and you could say this area is very related to that kind of professional more than personal okay yeah that's really interesting unless there's anything else you want to say but it's been so interesting you've said a lot it's really interesting to think about every day staff in this kind of detail that I don't really like yeah yeah lots of really interesting things I think have come out particularly around plants and your comparison between Good Chase Park and other civic sectors and other contexts it's really interesting there's one thing that like in St. Petersburg there's a big fish by the government acknowledging trees as being heritage so lots of them would be like this is a heritage tree and you can get a list of all of them who's going to have a look at it but when you go past and they have like a big bit of text on a metal plaque telling you about the history of the trees it's funny how they have that there but not here that like the trees would be something deliberately trying to do things rather than it being more overtly trees are heritage here's some information about this tree so maybe you're talking about the lack of interpretation maybe I know there is some but yeah yeah and then as simple as that relates to it being part of the government like policy to like present Singapore as a very green place like a city in a garden they call themselves oh right they don't have that same narrative here so it's not as important to them to have it that makes you wonder what the narrative might be maybe the daffodils are like the hint of it like that bank being so full of daffodils in the garden in the spring that's something that's unique to Wales yeah that's really lovely yeah are you happy for me to stop the recording thank you so much that was just really interesting