Podcast 20240227 1134

Muy buenos días, buenas tardes, buenas noches, amigos, amigas que nos están oyendo allá. A través de la Internet, a través de las redes sociales, bienvenidos y bienvenidas a este segmento, palabreando, del Museo Arqueológico Weidbauer, gracias al Centro Cultural de la PUCE y a la Universidad Católica, por supuesto, podemos empezar esta serie de encuentros que van a ser un espacio para conversar, para dialogar, de temas interesantes que nos plantea la vida cotidiana relacionada con la arqueología. En este tiempo estamos proponiéndoles un primer episodio en el que vamos a conversar con arqueólogas. Justamente por el Día Internacional de la Mujer hemos querido preparar un pequeño momento de diálogo informal con estas tres mujeres que han también participado en trabajos que se han relacionado con el Museo Arqueológico Weidbauer. Por eso les hemos invitado a Kira Torres, María Media Calle y Pamela Toasso, que son arqueólogas de la Universidad Católica y que están con nosotros. Este va a ser un diálogo bastante relajado, así que no se preocupen, vamos a palabrear ciertas cosas y pues les queremos dar la más cordial bienvenida a todos ustedes allá y, por supuesto, a ustedes que están acompañándonos aquí en el museo. Así que bienvenidos, bienvenidas, vamos a iniciar este diálogo y lo primero que les quería preguntar es, bueno, cómo se sienten, qué es para ustedes la arqueología. Kira. Bueno, buenos días con todos y con ustedes también. Gracias por este espacio. Bueno, para mí la arqueología empezó como un sueño. Yo soy de las niñas que querían ser arqueólogas desde que tenía ocho años y heme aquí. Pero a veces cuando idealizas muchas de las cosas, ya en la vida real se vuelve complejo, ¿no?, porque tenemos nuevos retos, tenemos un ambiente, digamos, en el que la carrera no es tan conocida, en donde mucha gente, tal vez nuestros mismos padres o familiares nos dicen, ¿y ahora y de qué vas a vivir? Creo que todas lo hemos logrado, por eso estamos aquí, pero viene cargado con muchísimos retos y creo que en el marco, ¿no?, del 8 de marzo, el tema de género es un reto más, sobre todo por ciertos estereotipos que se están planteando en la carrera, tanto en el campo como en el ámbito académico, que luego podremos profundizar. Y más o menos la misma pregunta y con estos elementos, ¿no?, cuán difícil, cuán complicado y cómo se sienten al generar ustedes o al escoger una carrera como esta? Vamos a hablar con Pamela. Bueno, buenas tardes con todos y todas. Realmente yo cuando elegí mi carrera no era uno de mis sueños. Realmente el universo me llevó a este camino que englobó todos los aspectos que yo quería estudiar. Realmente reestructuró mi espacio personal, social y, bueno, aquí estamos. Estudiar arqueología sí me permitió acercarme al espacio de género de distintas formas, de cómo yo lo venía abordando de cuando era una adolescente a una niña. Recordemos que aquí en el Ecuador difícilmente tus papás o incluso la escuela te explica cuestiones de género, sexualidad o diversidades sexuales. Entonces, sí, eso también es un tema que a mí personalmente me ha encantado y, bueno, uno de mis temas de tesis fue eso, que específicamente evaluar estas representaciones femeninas tanto en la contemporaneidad como ahora que lo podremos abordar más adelante. Anemelia, ¿cómo ha sido para ti estar y adquirir esta carrera y trabajar como una mujer en este ámbito? 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well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well Ok, we are speaking here in the archaeological museum of Bail Bowers, Porras, of the Pontifical Catholic University of Ecuador, of the Cultural Center, and well, for us it is a pleasure to be with these young archaeologists, these women who, despite their young age, as you can see, handle a baggage, a criterion, and very interesting elements that allow us to see how we can transform our society from archaeology, and that's why a little from there, I was left with an image when they talked about female representations in archaeology, how can we, from archaeology, transform the image that we have or that has been created today with the woman? Is there any image, any proposal that from your experiences, from your feelings and thoughts, could become a way of understanding this new woman who is being built in the 20th or 21st century? 21st century, sorry, obviously. Well, for me, I think that more than building is to build what we have, right? To understand that we can be super diverse, I think that here is an example, right? That we come from different areas, with different experiences, different baggage, and that in all of them there is a space for us. I think that's it, right? It's being able to choose if you want to be a mom or not, for example, and in both cases, being able to practice archaeology and be able to succeed in archaeology, understanding success not as an academic or economic success, understanding success as doing what you like, go where you want to go. So I think that's where the construction goes, it's not the construction of an image, but of the spaces where your image falls. So knowing that you have this option to choose what you want to be, how you want to do it, what field you want to go to, and that you have a safe space to be able to fulfill yourself, because that's the other one, right? I mean, maybe there are many people, girls, let's say, who are going to start choosing their career, and they say, no, how scary, right now with the situation of insecurity, going to the countryside, it worries me. And I think it's something, at least I personally face that, I'm in the labor market, and I say, will I accept a job right now on the coast? To go to a prospectus where I don't know where I am, with whom I am? And the idea would be to create a safe space to say, yes, I can work on the coast, as I can work in a community in the mountains, like in Galapagos, with the same security, with the same tranquility. And if I don't like the countryside, okay, we have a museum space, we have a reserve space where I can work. And if it's not that, okay, in the state institutions, there will be institutions where I can be safe, where there will be no harassment issues, where I can fulfill myself, because the contribution of the state institutions is also super important. Public policy must be created from the state, and must be reinforced from the citizens. But all that must be safe spaces and spaces that are friendly to be able to fulfill yourself. So I think that more than building a margin, it is to build these spaces where different images come in, where different aspirations come in, where different trajectories of life come in, and that they are welcome. For me it goes that way. And in fact, the intention is precisely to break that image, to build the logic that we have been having to build a new one. And of course, this goes from archaeology to all the professions and to all the generation of this ideal, which is to feel equal and that there are no spaces that allow or that generate that women do not develop or do not generate proposals for what they can do, because there is just how we look at each other and how we pose this. Pamela, María Amelia, you from your side, how would you pose this? It is a very reflective question. I think that what we really have to do is deconstruct ourselves, and deconstruct ourselves by questioning even the little things or the dynamics that happen in our home. I remember a lot that in the first semester we were dealing with a gender issue, and I was returning home and like the whole Ecuadorian family, they told me, you don't have to do the housework. And I, of course, with great pleasure, but why doesn't my dad do it? So I also invite you to question yourself from your spaces, which is a deconstruction that is also continuous, which does not mean that it will stay there, which is also dynamic. So, yes, I would believe that the way is to deconstruct ourselves, question ourselves and accept ourselves. Above all, accept and respect ourselves, because diversity is there, and maybe fitting in is our greatest challenge, because we don't always fit in everywhere, and not fitting in is also good. In fact, for example, this deconstruction, and above all I want to refer to the issue of spaces, for example, personally, my other side, my other profession, is to be an emotional therapist, thanks to my partner and the love of my life, who dedicated herself to being a doula, she voted for communication and started this. So we started, for example, to transform certain things, and when we lived our pregnancies, I understood that we were pregnant, and that, for example, just the issue of maternity and paternity complements what the human being is in its two phases, or its two dimensions, let's say, the masculine and the feminine, which in balance generates this construction of complementary human beings, and more expanded, so to speak, in a way, to build a new human society. A little bit from that side too, what can you tell us? Well, I was thinking about this, I think there is a huge diversity in terms of understanding yourself as a woman, I think I have never been very connected with my traditional feminine side, but nevertheless I am, from the outside I see you very feminine, but I feel that I've always been doing a lot of scientific activities, and I feel good with this, I feel good with what kind of woman I have decided to be and I have come to be. And I think that in archeology, in all positions we find this, precisely what Akira said a moment ago, to make the decision to maternate or not, to make the decision to carry your life as you want to carry it, I find it valuable and necessary. In my case, I chose to be a mother, I chose to be a younger mother, I do not know why I had this idea, but I wanted it and there I am dealing with all this, keeping a house and doing all this. But I think it is super enriching, depending on how much you choose to be able to guide your life. So always and when things are good and within your limits of life and your own limits, I find it valuable to follow a path. So in archeology sometimes it has been a bit complicated precisely because of this, because there is a physical conditioning to which I must accept that I do not reach, for example, I am Renator carrying boxes, carrying things, digging, but there comes a time when I can not carry what my friend carries, who is much taller than me, much stronger than me, and we share the work, we accommodate to accommodate things, both in reserve and in the field. So I think that finding the other person, having the gender that I have, finding the other person within their capacities and their limits is very valuable in general, and I understand that my limits and those of other people are different. People from what they are, from what they live, and of course proposing to you, friends, a little of this reflection on this issue to find ourselves. I usually say that museums, exhibitions, collections are a pretext to recognize us and we will finish this meeting, this first word, with your final words around these issues, what you want to propose to the people who listen to us, to new generations, to people also older and adults who are listening to us, your final words in this first meeting. Kira. Well, I think the first is to question, question everything, question the ugly, which is much easier, but also the beautiful, I think it's super important this exercise to think about why, and it's something we do a lot in archeology, why is an object there, why the object looks as it looks, why they made it that way and that applies to everything in life, why I'm doing this. And what you said, I thought it was very nice to recognize where we go, especially in these cultural spaces, it gives us a great opportunity to recognize ourselves in other people, in other visions, maybe, I remember when we were doing the inventory precisely in the Bell Bower and there were these Valdivia figurines and we found a figurine with the hairstyle of each of the girls who participated in the project and we were delighted. And these little things are that tell us that it is a funny anecdote, but that allow you to connect with other people, that allow you to say, I'm part of that person too, I can identify with the craftsman who created that figurine and that's something very, very nice, where we must get out of our bubble, try to expand a little limits of what we are seeing, where we are comfortable and go out, question if it's okay, cool, replicarlo and if it's wrong, see how little by little we can change it. Perfect. Your final messages? Well, I would say that definitely, as women, we face great challenges, that in our hands is also breaking patterns, that have come for years and that although it seems the rough way, difficult, but I do not think it is impossible, I think everyone from our space has been able to, and it is true that if you can, then tell them nothing, to be pressured, to respect, and that there will always be a woman on the road who is there supporting. I think what I would like to say to the girls or girls who want to be archaeologists, is that try, at least give yourself a chance, and I think the way can be in some difficult times, but I also think it's worth it, I think no dream is small, and I think it's super important that we do not give up, that we do not give up, and I think it's super important that there are also examples, visualizations of people who are doing, who are achieving to make this dream of being an archaeologist, and I also think I would like to make a call to the community of archaeologists, to stop having this type of patrol exercises, or harassment, in which the workspace is not a space of equity, I think it has been achieved little by little, and I urge you to keep working on it. That's right, well, I tell you that dreams sometimes come to you, and when you chase them, as a child I did want to be an archaeologist, but due to different circumstances in life, it was not, and God, the universe, the great architect, whatever you want to call it, somehow brought me, and we are here. And I want to thank you a lot, we are finishing this first meeting, to you friends who are there, your comments, your doubts, your concerns, I want to thank you infinitely, here goes to María Amelia, to Pamela, for having opened this space, and I hope to be able to count on you at some other time, to tell us your studies, your research, to deal more deeply with the projects in which they are, because this word is not just for that, to divulge what we do, where we are, and what we want to achieve. So, from here, from the middle of the world, from the Bile Bower Porras Archaeological Museum, Ricardo Gutiérrez Cárdenas says thank you very much and see you soon.