#2 Sue Barrett and Voices of Goldstein

Sue Barrett, co-founder of Voices of Goldstein, talks about her background growing up in Geelong and her early political views influenced by her family's liberal party voting. She discusses her journey of becoming more environmentally aware and her dissatisfaction with the major political parties. She mentions being inspired by the successes of independent candidates like Cathy McGowan and Zali Steggall. Sue describes the formation of Voices of Goldstein and their goal of finding a community-backed independent candidate for the Goldstein electorate. She explains their process of building a website and crafting their messaging to engage and attract supporters. I'm Steve Williams and you're listening to the Voices of Franklin podcast. Today we're joined by Voices of Goldstein co-founder Sue Barrett who went on to become campaign manager for Zoe Daniel. Today we're joined by founder of Voices of Goldstein, Sue Barrett. Sue Barrett, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me, Steve. Lovely to be here. Sue, could we start by, you could tell us a bit about your background or upbringing and how that may have informed your political awakening? Yes, well I grew up in Geelong and my dad ran a timber wholesale business with about 120 staff. I'm the eldest of four children. I was also an elite competitive swimmer, strong sporting background. So sort of what I was brought up with is sort of this small business culture. My dad was a really good athlete, very good businessman. I wanted to learn how business worked so I had that orientation around business and back then I would say my parents were liberal party voting people. So when you're raised in an environment, that's what your family does. So I remember when I went to vote first when I was 18, that you ask your parents about what should I do, how should I vote? And this of course was back in the time too in the sort of late 70s, early 80s where you actually had a more diverse liberal party. You had the wits who were much more centrist and then of course you had people that were further to the right. It was more I think back then a broad church. I didn't know this at the time. It was because you're quite young and I even didn't have the internet back then or anything. So for me that's what you did. But as I went to university in Melbourne, went to Monash Uni, studied science and my horizons were broadened and I learned a lot more about the world and of course I became much more environmentally aware in my early 20s and read a lot more about things even though it was still hard to get information. I tried to learn as much as I could and I was very open to information and ideas and broadening my horizons. And I started to become much more aware about what was happening in terms of the environment and what we could do. So of course like many, I started sort of getting my cloth shopping bags and just started doing that, trying to start to be more environmentally friendly. But what I noticed as I got older was how there were vested interests who were holding progress back and I just became more and more aware. And I think I probably stayed sort of centre-left in terms of how I look at things but the parties around us were shifting and changing but what I wanted to be able to do and how I felt I could contribute, there wasn't really a place for me. Then of course the Greens really started to emerge and so you look at them. So I think for me, what I'm pleased about in one sense is that I didn't just drink the Kool-Aid and stay with the brand. I actually thought about what I wanted, what was important, what was important for our communities and then started to search and look for representatives in a governmental perspective, in a political perspective that would best serve our nation, best serve our people moving forward. But when you're young, I mean I'm obviously 52 now and I can speak about that in a much more informed way but back then it was more a feeling or emergent or you're trying to sort of sort your way out. But I've always stood for fairness. In the 70s, I went to a boys' school that went co-ed, there were about eight boys to one girl when I was at that school and in Form 3 which is equivalent to Year 9 now. And I remember it being like my introduction to corporate Australia, it was tough but being an elite swimmer, I was very strong and also too, my parents always taught me that it doesn't matter what gender you are, you're a human and humans are valuable. So even though my parents voted Liberal Party, like I said, they're very practical and pragmatic and very sensible center in how they approach these sorts of things. So I don't know if that helps but that's kind of a bit of the background and sort of orientation that I was given. So I've always thought I could do what I wanted, be what I wanted to be but you have to put work in, put the effort in and just learn to think for yourself. Don't be just led by the nose. So teach yourself how to think about things and operate that way. And presumably, Sue, you took notice when Cathy McGowan was elected in Indi in 2013? Oh, definitely. Because like I said, there'd been this sort of desert of opportunity and there were these sort of brands out there that you're looking at and like I said, none of them really were speaking to me and obviously now to a lot of other people. And so when Cathy did what she did, that got my attention as it got quite a few other people's attention. Not a lot of people yet but it definitely got people's attention who were perhaps paying attention. And then of course when she did it a second time, then you really start to think, okay, something's happening here. And then of course when she retired and Helen Haynes took over and stepped up and Sally Stegall did it at the same time, you're starting to see this really take off. So I had been watching very much on the side what was going on here. And living in Goldstein, which has been a blue ribbon conservative state since Federation, you're thinking, oh God, could anything like that possibly happen here? So nonetheless, looking at what was happening with Cathy and Helen and Sally, my ears were definitely pricked up and my eyes were wide open looking at the possibility of this. But I had never been a politically active person up until I got involved with Voices of Goldstein. I'd always been a concerned citizen. And also too, not being of the political class, you often think, well, what could I do? So that sort of stuff. But I was very interested and curious as to what was happening. I think that's a familiar story, Sue. People like you and many people in the Voices movement were not politically active previously, but there's a straw that breaks the camel's back, isn't there? Now for you, I want to know what those straws were in the lead up to the 2022 federal election. You had a liberal incumbent that you weren't happy with. So can you talk us through the stages that you and your friends went through in the lead up to forming Voices of Goldstein? Absolutely. Okay. So I have been on Twitter. That's important. We'll now X, but I still call it Twitter. I've been on Twitter since, gosh, I don't know, when it started really. And of course, it wasn't much when it started. But then I became involved, particularly around sort of 2014, 2013-14 with a hashtag Auspol, hashtag A-U-S-P-O-L. And I started to meet and engage with really politically savvy people. So it's a fantastic education. You learned a lot about things and what was happening. And oftentimes, you got news and information well before it was broadcast on mainstream media. And we can talk about mainstream media a bit later on because quite frankly, they're not doing their job either. But Twitter, absolutely, this hashtag Auspol was amazing. And through that, I met a woman called Denise Travell. And she and I actually would talk to each other on the phone. She lives in North Sydney and I'm in Goldstein, of course. And so we would chat every now and then. So yeah, and we'd also have these existential crises. Oh my God, they're not doing anything and this and that. So it was kind of like a self-help group as well. We exchange information and ideas. Anyway, the straw that broke the camel's back was Christmas 2019, 2020, when our country was literally going up in flames. And ScoMo was in Hawaii and said he wouldn't hold a host. And I was lying there on my couch, trying to keep cool inside, having another existential crisis, one of many. And as were many on Twitter thinking, what on earth could we do? So Denise and I spoke again around that time. And she and I were going, we just can't stand here doing nothing. And then she said, you should do in Goldstein and I'll do in North Sydney what Cathy McGowan did in Indi and Zali did in Warringah. Let's do that. And I go, sure, Denise. How do we do that? Like never having done it before. But it did light a fuse, like a little spark. And we were just sort of thinking about this. And we just would share stuff with each other and do a bit of this. And Denise was very active because she chose to stop working. Her husband works, but she chose to stop working and devote her life, actually, to help create more positive change. So we'd exchange information. Anyhow, late 2020, she reached out and said, I think you should speak to this person because they're having a bit of a chat in Goldstein. So in late 2020, I joined a Zoom conversation with about 15 people from Goldstein. And I didn't know any of them. Now, a couple of them knew each other because there were some from the Bayside Climate Crisis Action Group. So they had been trying to get climate action and things like this. But most of us ostensibly were strangers coming together. All of us having this sort of existential crisis, we've got to do something. And so some people went, oh, yeah, and then left. But about six of us said, well, okay, let's put together a Voices of Goldstein. And let's see if there's an appetite in Goldstein for a community-backed independent candidate. So that was late 2020. So early 2021, we built a website. I did a lot of work on the messaging because professionally what I do is I run a business that specializes in human-centered ethical sales and business growth strategies, skills, and capabilities. So I help people in businesses sell better. And when I think about what we're doing, we've got to take something to market. And we've got to be able to engage people, have a conversation, and see if they're interested in, in a sense, buying what we're offering. So I use my professional knowledge and experience to help set up the infrastructure around the messaging and how we started doing activities. So the six of us got together. No money, like you know, just smell of an oily rag. Got a few t-shirts. We labeled our t-shirts. They were purple. And with gold writing, we felt a bit like a violet crumble. It was quite lovely. We got noticed. But on our t-shirt, we said, our independence day is coming. Sort of throwing that out there. And we started doing little democracy walks, and we'd stand outside markets, and we'd go out there and things like this. Had a website. And quite frankly, it started to really take off. But what I knew we had to do is we had to be out there and visible. You couldn't just have a website. You had to actually physically show your presence in community. So I used my knowledge and experience around that professionally to make sure we were out doing activities. And so off we went. And we started to gather more currency. And then we saved up a bit of money, and we did a little basic letterbox drop across the tire electorate. And we let people know we existed. And we also let people know that we were interested. Because we had served with... Sorry, just back up a bit. We had done kitchen table conversations with quite a number of people. We also had started doing little events. And we had John Hewson as our first event, where we talked about the people versus Canberra. And we talked about having citizens, having a voice in Canberra. So he was very gracious and was on that. We ended up having Cathy McGowan, and Zali Stegall, and Craig Ruecastle. So we made it interesting for people to want to come. These events were all online because we were obviously in COVID kind of conditions. But we got a lot more interest and kept doing the kitchen table conversations, democracy walks, and making visibility. And then when we asked the community, because they told us that, of course, climate action, integrity, equality, and prosperity were the four pillars that they wanted to be represented. We said, would you like to actually go for a community-backed independent candidate? And the resounding chorus was yes. So we then interviewed them and said, as in a group kind of facilitated workshop online, what are the qualities you're looking for in a candidate? What would you back? What do they need to do? How do they need to behave? What do you want from them? These are our four pillars. So what kind of character and capability do you want? So we got that. We then set up a selection process. And then the group agreed that there could be a selection panel. I chaired the selection panel of six people, three women, three men of different ages and different political persuasions so that we had diversity. And then we went to market. And that's when we did our letterbox drop where we let people know we existed and that we were looking for a candidate. And that's how we started the process. So we started building that visibility. And it really started to take off. We got 14 self-nominations coming in of different types of people. And then I also—and we wanted to—ideally, we wanted a marquee candidate because if you've got someone who's got currency and is well-known, that obviously helps you. But they have to be competent, not just a name. They actually have competence. So it's a tall order to ask for someone of that kind of ilk. Anyway, Angela Pippos, who's Zoe Daniel's best friend, lives in Goldstone. As does Zoe, actually, which I didn't know at the time. But Angela saw what we were doing and on Twitter. And she contacted me via Twitter and we chatted. And she told me she thought her best friend Zoe Daniel would be amazing. You can imagine me. I'm on the other end of the phone going, oh my god. But she said, I haven't told Zoe yet. And I go, okay. So Zoe and I, and Angie, ended up having a conversation in July of 2021 and Zoe went, no. And I went, okay. But I did ask if I could stay in touch and just keep her informed of what we were doing, given she lived in the electorate. And between July and October, I gently stayed in touch with her and kept just checking in if she was interested or not. And she was obviously maybe considering it. Because she doesn't do knee jerks, nor should you for something as important as this. And we had some other good, decent candidates as well. But like I said, Zoe had the marquee aspect. So I wanted to see if she was interested. Anyway, good news is, in October, when I reached out one last time and said, look, we've got to get our traction here. Are you in or are you not? And she went, I'm in. And I mean, I was just over the moon. It didn't mean she got a free pass. She had to go through the selection panel we had set up for probity and fairness. But of course, she came out on top by a country mile. And then she turned the tables on me. And she asked me if I'd be her campaign manager. And I went, whoop, okay. I've never done that before. Can I have a bit of a think about it? Gave her an hour, not three months, came back to her. Because I reframed it. And I thought to myself, a political campaign is an on-the-ground human-to-human salesman campaign. That's what I do professionally. I can run it with that kind of structure and base and overlap with amazing advertising and marketing and all of that, like you would do taking product to market. I could work with that. So I agreed. Yes. And the rest is history. And she won. Yeah. You've anticipated my next question really, Sue, which was, how does one become a campaign manager with no experience? I guess every campaign manager starts from no experience. But were there people you could talk to? Were there books you could read? Or did you just decide, I'm an expert in sales. I can work this out. It's probably everything that you just mentioned. It's a combination. I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say I knew what I was doing from a campaign perspective because I've never done one before. But this is where I think people need to understand what I have learned, and I've shared this a few times with the Community Independence Project as well, is that having a good framework and structure to deliver and you need a team. So campaign manager does not mean that it's you only. You're the orchestra conductor or the coordinator of an amazing team that has to be able to deploy this. So forget it's me that was campaign manager for Zoe. Let's just talk about campaign. So there's some amazing work done by Ruth McGowan, right? So she's got some really interesting and good quality information that people can access that helps you understand some of the number of things that need to be in play. You also need to be able to have a very clear message to market when you're taking a candidate and you've got to get out there early to capture what I call share of mind first. So share of mind means people got to start seeing it's like our purple t-shirts first and then our Zoe t-shirt. We fortunately had like an overt six-month runway. We didn't know when the election was happening, but it ended up being a six-month runway. And one of the key things that I know from a business perspective is you've got to make sure that you're highly visible out there. So when people are driving or walking by, they go, oh, what's that? Oh, okay. I now know what that is. Oh, there's Zoe. Like it can't just be one off. The other thing that people need to understand too is that you've got to be well organised and prioritise your efforts and activities. You don't want to do a thousand things. You want to do a handful of things a thousand times because that builds that share of mind and then eventually share of vote. So you've got to have very clear messaging, a really good in business terms, we call it a value proposition. So like something that people can buy into, something that they can relate to and that connects them to you. And then you just got to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. So whether that's activities in community, we call them street meets or pop-up offices, whatever, being at markets, being at the train stations, having people wear their t-shirts to the supermarket, people riding bikes, going out and sitting together, a coffee with your t-shirts on, whatever it might be. What you want is that your electorate needs to, wherever they turn and go, they keep seeing, in our case, Zoe. So I had some KPIs and things that I set up. I wanted to get at least 1,500 Zoe fence signs up out in community. We managed to get 2,500 of them. I wanted to make sure that we had 1,000 t-shirts out there, 1,000 people wearing t-shirts around. So we have to overlay that, obviously, with good marketing and advertising and that kind of stuff and amazing social. So when we talk about it, you've got to have a very good air and ground campaign. The air campaign is that digital advertising and the ground campaign is the humans. So here's a lesson I learned from The Voice as well. In Goldstein, I ran a 16-week on-the-ground campaign for yes, for the yes vote. And I made sure we had key activities and we were consistent. And we managed to get one of the few yeses around the country. The only electorate that got a yes vote were those that ran on-the-ground human-to-human community campaigns because the air campaign from the no campaign was so powerful and so pervasive that if you didn't have the opportunity to have a human-to-human conversation with people, people then were obviously drawn to the air campaign. And we know that in Goldstein, if we hadn't have run our ground campaign, it would have been a no. So I think there's a lot of... I've obviously been around now a couple of times. We're learning about this, that you cannot underestimate the importance of having a very well-coordinated, consistent, as if you can, longer ground campaign where you get to have conversations with people, real conversations. You listen to them. You understand them. If they go, oh, what is this about? Then you say, what specifically are you interested in? And then you take them to the information and you have a discussion. People are much more open to that. This is very important to pre-bunk all the propaganda that's out there and to help debunk it when it's actually out there. So it was everything basically, Steve. When you think you've got it all covered, that's when you haven't. So you're always learning. So I keep learning. What I learned from Voices of Goldstein and then what I learned from Zoe's campaign and then I took all those learnings to the voice campaign and I'm going to take all of those learnings now to the next election cycle for Zoe. So we're constantly looking at how we can do that better. I hope that makes sense and it's helpful. So once you had your candidate, Zoe Daniel, and you had the campaign launch, and I believe you had former Liberal Minister Ian McPhee there and former Labor Minister Barry Jones also, which speaks to your organisational skills. Fantastic. Now did Voices of Goldstein at that point sort of go into hibernation and this new group emerges? Because that's what I learned from the IndiWay. Yes. So my husband who's in IT, he did the IT for Zoe's campaign, he actually made a very good observation. If you think about Voices of Goldstein or any Voices group, that's a .org. That's a community group. So it's a .org. And then he said a political campaign's a .com because you're selling something. It's a very targeted approach. And I think that distinction is incredibly important to make because you have your community group which is there to... And our mandate for Voices of Goldstein was to find a candidate to represent us in federal politics. That was the goal of that group, the community group. And yes, we had people from that who could transfer into being volunteers for Zoe's campaign. But a political campaign is a sales-led campaign. It's very targeted. You've got to get this person across the line with the most number of votes and you put all of your effort into running that. So it's a different proposition. It doesn't mean you don't still have the same values and the same principles of how you want to work with each other and all that kind of stuff. But you've got to switch your brain into taking something to market. And that's where I think people get a bit confused if they don't understand the difference. So Voices of group is a .org, a community, and a political campaign is, whether it's a .com or not, it's a .com. It's a commercial, if you like, entity selling something to market. Yeah. It's as if you flick a switch when the campaign starts and they may be a lot of the same people kind of switch over, but it's a new entity. Yeah. So this is why you have to have a very good operational framework from a campaign perspective. And it's got to be very disciplined and targeted about what you're doing so that you know that you have these things operating in concert. It's a time-bound situation as well. So it's really got to be military precision in terms of how you take that. Whereas when you're kind of working more in a fluid way in a .org that doesn't have structural support, but it is more fluid, this is much more a rifle approach, a much more targeted approach. So you need to be really tight on how you pull everything together and everyone works in concert with each other. Yes. You did have those 1,500 or so volunteers during the campaign and I'm presuming you spent more than $100,000 typically. That's a minimum spend. Oh, we raised about $1.2 million to run that campaign. I know. It's a big campaign. We thought we probably needed half a million, but we raised because we also used – we did a big – we were able to send to a big advertising campaign like billboards and things like this. So we were able to do that. And of course, they're pretty exy, right? But we were able to do that to build visibility quickly. But being out there, your people out there on the ground, as I said, I always told everyone who joined our Zoe team, whether they transitioned across from Voices of Goldstein, which everyone pretty much did, and the others that we amassed on board, came on board, I told everyone our number one job is t-shirts on, conversations had with people. That is the number one job of every single person, no matter how old or young or educated or not you are, I don't care. Your number one job is to get out there in your t-shirt and start igniting conversations with people and then having clear messaging that you give people so that they obviously stay focused and on track and that they don't go off terrain somewhere else talking about things that aren't relevant. Keep it focused and disciplined. And that's what I told everyone. The other thing that people may or may not consider is to keep that focus and that discipline, you cannot communicate enough. So if you've got a community group or you've got people that are like supporters, you need to have like weekly comms out to them to show you how you're going and progressing. But you've got your volunteer base. I call them my sales team, right? You've got my volunteer base. You have to communicate every week to them about where we're going, how we're progressing, how successful we're being, those sorts of things. Really disciplined because that keeps everyone focused and they know we're slot in if you have your infrastructure set up properly. It can't be some sort of random Catherine Wheel of activity because that's when it just all goes off the rails. Well, Sue, in our last five minutes, maybe we could talk about how you see the future of the Voices movement evolving. On my last count, there's about 30 Voices groups declared across Australia. Now, I want to mention in this lead up to what you're going to say, I want to mention your little video called The Best Gift that you put on YouTube a couple of years ago. I really enjoy it. It's only three minutes and we'll put that in the show notes so people can find it. Of course, one of the things you mentioned a couple of times in that video is sustainability. Maybe where there has been a focus on climate change, integrity commission, equal rights for everyone. This is all moving in a certain direction, I think, and maybe sustainability is a good overarching word to describe that. Yeah, I mean, whether it's environmental or societal or movement-oriented or whatever, what makes it sustainable? Well, firstly, when I look at sustainability, I think about one of the underlying capabilities we need to always have in play is curiosity. When you're curious, you're not judgmental and there's too many people being judgmental out there. If we look at curiosity, so how can we keep progressing forward in a way that's sustainable, the common good is considered, the environment is considered, the health and well-being of our citizens is considered, that sort of holistic approach. It's complex and it's tricky. But I think in terms of the movement, we're seeing the two major parties trying to do donation reform, electoral donation reform, because they are scared of us. I mean, look at what we've done to certain seats around the country. When you go from Cathy McGowan, 2013, 2016, there's one seat. Now, there was two in 2019 and now there's eight. Okay, so- It's exponential growth. Exactly, it's exponential growth. Now, the major parties have sort of looked at this going, holy crap, what are we going to do? And they don't like it because their power structure, their base is being eroded. But what we have to do, and this is where people power is very important in this disciplined approach, is that community needs to be in the House, needs to be in the Senate. We need to have our voices heard in these environments or else it will be taken over by vested interests. And it already has been taken over by vested interests. We can see at the moment the conservative parties are actually, they're underpinned by the fossil fuel industry. They don't want renewables because it actually messes with the fossil fuel industry. But we can't stand by and let that happen. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Healthy democracy requires us as humans to be part of this. And so, I didn't think at my age, I'd start to be fighting for gender equality, or a cleaner environment. Remember, I talked about my origin story. I didn't think I'd have to be fighting for these sorts of things now. But here we are because vested interests don't like where it's going because it's going to actually mean their business model becomes redundant. But this just means we have to get more and more of us mobilised to be able to actually create the change. We're already seeing the tipping point by the past, or at that tipping point, where renewables are becoming much cheaper and much more accessible for people to get access to South Australia is a great example of how it's really accelerating its renewable energy approach and ditching fossil fuels. So, none of this can happen without people on the ground dedicated across the different electorates. Now, not every electorate is ready yet for a community independent to step in, but you can create the environment for that for the next election or the election after that. But the more of us that mask together and the more of us that actually get out there and mobilise and engage people and show people that they have agency, that they actually can create positive change, that they can actually get together and actually stand up to these vested interests who do not want – they're not interested in sustainability. They're not interested in our wellbeing. They don't actually care. The Atlas Network, which is funded by the fossil fuel industry, is propping up Advance Australia, propping up the IPA, propping up all of these organisations that their number one intention is to hold us hostage and give us a dreadful future. Well, I'm not standing by and doing nothing. I'm going to make sure I keep doing this for the rest of my life if that's what it takes. I thought I might be able to have a bit of a rest now. I've worked really hard on my life, but clearly I have a new career and it's about all of us getting together to do something meaningful and positive. So, yeah, I mean, I've met some of the most amazing people through this and it's hard work, but I would never go back and not do it. I just am so – I don't know. I just think people, when you get together and you really know what you need to do, gosh, you can create positive change that's sustainable. In other words, Sue, nothing beats organised money like organised people. Exactly. Well, it's not my saying, but it's the saying I came across. But the other saying that I love too, that Margaret Mead said, is never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world because indeed, that's the only thing that ever has. Right? So I think that – this is where people get a bit frightened. And I know when we started Voices of Goldstein, I mean, I've been to marches all my life and trying to stand up for the environment and Godless women and all that kind of stuff. But I remember turning up when we'd have another sort of democracy walk and these people would come along and they go, hi. I go, hi, I'm Sue. Nice to meet you. And they go, is this your first time? They go, yes. I've never done anything like this before. I go, that's okay. Just follow me and I'll show you the ropes. And the more and more people that you bring on board – I mean, I now have 1,500 people in Goldstein that know how to do a knock, that know how to do street meets, that know how to do this. So we just build that out and they can bring a friend and we'll train them up on how to do that as well. But initially, because I've been sales all my life, I know how to approach and engage people. So I've just been spreading that opportunity to help people actually find their inner Xena warrior princess, their inner courageous person to come out. It's hard by yourself. But when you have a mass of people doing it and you start to build that momentum, people's courage does come to the fore. So I love leading with courage, not fear. So we're the antidote to what the conservatives are doing in this country. We're leading with courage, not fear. And the more of us that do that, the better our lives and our environment and the world will be. Well, Sue Barrett, we'll have to leave it there. Thanks so much for joining the podcast and maybe we can catch up with you further down the track. My pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity and good luck to everyone. Get out there. Mobilize.