AOTA-240105 - Ann Klem, Keith Kirkpatrick, Spotligth Sandy Young

This week on Art in the Air features artist Anne Clem, whose class creations will be on exhibit at South Bend's For the Love of Art Fair. Next, the leading authority on leadership, Keith Kirkpatrick, describes symptoms, impact, and treatment of an unsuccessful leadership in his new book, Leaders Thick. Our spotlights on author Sandra Young, whose sequel novel Divinely Dramatic will become available February 5th. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. You're in the know with Esther and Larry, with Art on the Air today. They're in the know with Mary and Esther, Art on the Air our way. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Welcome. You're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, WVLP 103.1 FM, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond. I'm Larry Breckner of New Perspective Photography, right alongside here with Esther Golden of the Nest in Michigan City. Aloha, everyone. We're your hosts for Art on the Air. Art on the Air is supported by an Indiana Arts Commission Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. Art on the Air is heard every Sunday at 7 p.m. on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at LakeshorePublicMedia.org, and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast. Also heard on Friday at 11 a.m. and Monday at 5 p.m. on WVLP, 103.1 FM, streaming live at WVLP.org, and Tuesdays at 4 p.m. on WDSO 88.3 FM. Our spotlight interviews are also heard Wednesdays on Lakeshore Public Media. Information about Art on the Air is available at our website, breck.com slash AOTA. That includes a complete show archive, spotlight interviews, plus our show is available on multiple podcast platforms, including NPR One. Please like us on Facebook, Art on the Air WVLP, for information about upcoming shows and interviews. We'd like to welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight. We had her for her full interview on April 22nd, 24th of 2022 with her first book, but now she's come out with a sequel to The Divine Vintage, and it's going to tell us all about her new book that's set in the, it's called Divinely Dramatic. We have Sandy Young. Welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight. So nice to see you, Larry. Thanks, Esther. It is great to be back with you, too. Well, you have now got a sequel. I know when we interviewed you back in your previous interview, you said you would have a sequel. Well, now you can tell us a little bit about it. And what's nice about the flavor of your books, they are local. And even though they are novels and fictional, they have a local air. So tell us about your new sequel here, Divinely Dramatic. Well, they are Divinely Dramatic follows Divine Vintage by a series of three of the same name. They're all set in La Porte County. And in Divinely Dramatic, a vintage fashionista, Marcy Alexander, reluctantly agrees to costume a community theater play at La Porte Little Theater. But when she goes there, her aura of reading ability leads her to a 1966 mystery in the costume loft. Now, meanwhile, the director, Mike Figueroa, he's drawn to, but he's also annoyed by the cookie-filling costume. He just wants her to do an excellent job to thwart his pranking betting buddies. And in the meantime, Marcy's got a persistent ghost, an ailing mom who is urging her to get out of the nest, seek your dream career of art illustration for children's books. So she finds she's got to solve this mystery from the past in order to solve the riddles of her own heart. Excellent. And you have a third one in the series, but La Porte Little Theater has been the kind of setting for this one. And so tell us about some of your own experience with costuming. Well, actually, because I have a huge vintage clothing collection, and I've done more than 75 shows over the last decades in the region, I costume myself a lot. And I have done a little bit of costuming work as well for some of the productions I've been in, like Count Dracula out at the Dunes was one that I costumed. So I just love the fashion and the costumes. And so when I was putting together this series, which is wrapping around vintage fashion and romance and ghostly mystery, well, the costuming just was a natural, kind of a secondary book. And then the third one takes place at the Historical Museum in La Porte, and looks like that one's coming out in May for the Wild Rose Press. That's my mobile show. Oh, I love that museum. I always feel like there's a ton of stories in there when I walk in there. Everybody's shouting. So, you know, I have two, like, very funny questions. One is, do you own those rainbow platform shoes? And the other question is, I felt like I was walking into the closet when you were describing her, you know, wrapping up the stuff to sell from Divine Vintage. So was the closet an inspiration for that? You know, actually, the closet opened after I did the drafts of my first books. I wrote these several years before that. And then I just polished them and edited them and worked and worked over the years to make them much better, and got a publisher for them. And then Julia opened in the meantime. And I've sold her some of my collection through the years, and Good News Vintage I've sold to them, too. So, yes, that is that flair of a vintage shop, which is what Divine Vintage is set in. So it's over 10 years ago you started the books? Yes, over 10 years ago. And in the meantime, I wrote a couple of others that are just sitting. And then I've got a historical fiction, a fourth book, set in southern Indiana at the West Bay Mineral Springs Hotel. That's truth-based historical fiction. That one I'm polishing and going to go out and try to get an agent, a larger press. So I have been crazy over the past year with writing, getting two books polished and through to publish, and writing another one and doing a ton of book clubs. I would love to Zoom in or visit region book clubs. They're the most fun to go in, have people read your book and talk about it with you. And so you'd be open to doing that, having people do that? I would love to do that. And I'd like to put in a little plug that my book is now on pre-sale. And if people were to buy it on pre-sale for Amazon, either e-books or paperbacks, then on opening release day when it comes out, that would be an awesome thing is to have those sales there. And it sometimes ends up giving authors a number one bestseller banner in one of their haunted theaters or something like that. So I'm just saying if anybody's interested in buying the book, that would be great, pre-sale. Now, looking at the cover, is that one of your – I know the cover was designed by another press, but was that one of your costumes or outfits that were on the cover of the book? It is not. I really would love to find it. It's got these big polka dot patterns. It's because of the 1966 mystery, and I would love to find something like it. I'm actually – you can't see it, but I'm wearing one that's a 1960s, 70s pattern that's got these cool polka dots. And probably when I present it, I always wear vintage fashion, so this one I'll probably wear a lot. But if I can find something that is more like that book cover in the purples with the polka dots, because my book covers will all have purple vintage fashions. They will be linked by theme and look. And aura. And aura. And aura. Well, Sandy, we only have about one minute left here, so we want to give you a chance to find out all of your work, like your website, contact information, and maybe like how to find you in case they want to have you come out and maybe do either a book signing or a book reading. Sure. SandraYoungAuthor.com. There are examples of my vintage clothing there, and also links to purchase Divine Vintage, and I'll get Divinely Dramatic up since they're there now. And it would be great. People can reach out through email at the bottom of that site, and I have a newsletter on Substack if somebody wants to just kind of tune into my vintage journey. Appreciate local folks who have been so supportive. Well, we appreciate you coming on Art in the Air. Sandy Young and her brand-new sequel, Divinely Dramatic, officially releases February 5th. But if you go to Amazon, you can preorder it and maybe bump it up. Thank you so much for coming on Art in the Air Spotlight. Yes, it was fun to see you, Sandy. Thank you. You too. A Spotlight Extra. The Chesterton Arts Center is pleased to present changes of solo exhibit of select journal series Weavings by Brianna Bibbs, January 8th through February 29th, with an opening reception on Saturday, January 13th. Art in the Air Spotlight and the complete one-hour program on Lakeshore Public Media is brought to you by Macaulay Real Estate in Valparaiso, Olga Patrician, Senior Broker. And as a reminder, if you'd like to have your event on Art in the Air Spotlight or have a longer feature interview, email us at aotaatbrech.com. That's aotaatbrech, B-R-E-C-H, .com. This is Alan Harrison, author of Scene Change, a new best-selling book on the subject of nonprofit arts organizations. And you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media 89.1 FM and on WVLP 103.1 FM. Thanks for listening. Underwriting for this Art in the Air feature interview is brought to you by the 2024 For the Love of Art Fair at South Bend Century Center, running February 17th and 18th. More information is available on the web at fortheloveofartfair.com. We would like to welcome Anne Clem to Art on the Air. Anne is a glass artist of both functional and artistic glass pieces. She uses her keen interest in science fiction, black holes, and nature's processes for her inspiration for her glass designs. Anne's creations explore the fluid forms of glass and how colors react with each other. Enjoying the challenge of melting or combining thin glass, she will be one of the exhibiting artists with the Shereen Johnson-Kleins for the Love of Art Fair in South Bend at the Century Center, happening February 17th and 18th of 2024. Thank you for joining us on Art on the Air. Aloha and welcome, Anne. It's very nice to meet you. Thank you. It's great to meet both of you. Well, so glad to have you on the show and then sharing about your art. And I like to most of the time want to start off as your, I call your art origin story or even your own origin story. I would like to say how you got from where you were to where you are now. So tell us all about Anne. It's a long story. No, it's not really. I have long stories. Long stories are great. I'm late to the art game. I loved art in high school and went to the art classes there. But then art got set aside as I went part of the way through college, got married, started my family, was a single mom for a long time, and then got wrapped up in the corporate world. So once I escaped from the corporate world, then I could finally address my art. So late to the game, but loving it. And I tell people I'm living the dream. I really am. I'm passionate about what I do. I work a lot. It's physically demanding, but, boy, is it so much better than that corporate life. What do you do in the corporate world? Especially glass is physically demanding. Yes, yes. I'm an IT person by trade. I worked on very complex computer systems and the support of those systems. So once you do support for systems like that, you leave behind a whole lot of sleep, a whole lot of calmness. So once you escape, life's very different. And so how do you choose glass? So what were you introduced to in high school then that maybe brought you to glass? Or what was that like? Well, I've loved glass my whole life. Didn't happen in high school, though. But once I got ready to retire, I actually shopped around because I knew I wasn't going to just sit around, watch TV, and eat bonbons. So I started taking some classes. I took a pottery class, a painting class. There was weaving, something else in there. But then I took a class in torch working, where you actually shape the glass at the end of the flame in a torch. And once I hit glass, it was like the aha moment. This is it. So I actually was a torch worker for four or five years before I wanted to work bigger. And then I took my first kiln forming class and understood how to make things like bowls and trays. And then more classes. I still take classes. I just attended one this past June, and I've already signed up for one at the end of June next year because I love learning. Are these classes in glass? Yes, they're all in glass. And I travel for them because there's no offering here in the local area. But in addition to that, I'm doing some research in folding glass. So I started doing the folding about three years ago and just folded simple little single sheets of glass. And I've progressed into creating woven pieces of glass and folding those. And now I'm moving into more folding thick pieces of glass. Imagine a piece of glass about three quarters or an inch thick, I'm going to fold that into something that really looks other than glass-like. I saw an image of the installation in the Netherlands, like two red towels hanging on a rack. Very attractive. Thank you. I was looking at the draped, streaked, twice-folded one here. It's got green and white and everything. And it looks, if you glance at it, you don't realize it's glass at first. You think, oh, that's just like a piece of material. And here it is, beautiful glass. Thank you. See, my illusion is working. It doesn't look like fabric. That's true. So what about the solid pieces? I was very intrigued when, because there's an artist in Illinois, Robin Kittleson, who also experiments with glass. And she'll toss minerals into the glass to see the reaction. And so it made me think about when you talked about blending the colors and if anybody looks at your big block pieces of glass, what is the process for that to, I mean, it looks mysterious and magical. Well, glass is always mysterious and magical. It has a mind of its own. So you may start out with a design in mind, a plan, a design. How are you going to execute it? And if you come close, we're winning. But the solids are often pieces in which I make the block first. I will take sheet glass and assemble it and fire it so that I have a block of glass once it's through the kiln. And making those thick blocks, the glass can spend like three weeks in the kiln because it takes a long, long time for that to cool down. You want it to be able to heat up reasonably fast, and you hold it at top temperature for almost a day. And then you've got two weeks or so of cool down after that. Wow, that's fascinating. But when that's finished, then I have a block to work with. And the next phase is called cold working. And it is what it sounds like. We no longer heat the glass up. It goes first to the tile saw where you cut away the big hunks that you don't need, and then you start the grinding process. Very coarse at first, and then finer and finer, and either up to a wonderful matte finish or all the way to full polish. So it's a couple of steps, the hot part and then the cold part. And so what was the process like? Because if you have the clear glass and then you have these layers of color in them, I'm specifically thinking of your sister's piece, where you have these very distinct clear and blue layers. So as you're layering the glass in the kiln, does it pretty much come out like you think? I mean, by now you pretty much know how to layer it, I guess, to get the effect. But I know when things get all molten, it's unpredictable, like lava. Yes, it is. I have an idea of how the glass is going to flow. The three sisters piece you're describing is actually three separate obelisks at this point. But it started as a single block of glass. And when I layered that, the pieces of glass stood on their skinny edge next to each other. So they're like four or five clears and then a blue, four or five clears and then a blue. And that's how I created the block. And then the first step was to take it to the tile saw and cut it into the three pieces. And then the grinding and on up through to the polishing. And I'm glad you brought that piece up. My sisters talk to me about that piece all the time. Are you going to give us those for Christmas this year? What is your answer to that? We'll see if there's something by Christmas. But I have three brothers as well. So I have to work on the tres hermanos next. So tell us about your process. For someone who completely doesn't know anything about working with glass, where do you get your glass? How do you start with that and everything? And also, where do you work with your glass? Good question. My glass is called bullseye glass. And it comes from Bullseye Glass Manufacturing in Portland, Oregon. It comes in a number of forms. Most of what I buy is sheet glass. So a full-size sheet is about 24 by 36 and weighs about seven pounds. And it's an eighth of an inch thick. It comes to me with the chemicals in it that create the colors. Because putting the chemicals in is not an environmentally friendly process. So the bullseye folks have the stack scrubbers and the traps and all of that paraphernalia to keep the chemicals from getting into the environment. So a lot of what I buy is sheet glass. I also buy small particles of glass. They call it frit, which is obviously where the stuff goes that they break, for one thing. And frit comes in powder form, so it's still glass, and then fine, medium, and coarse. And I use all of those in my processes. The other form I buy is called a billet. And it's technically a brick of glass that Bullseye makes. So if I'm casting a large piece and I want as few bubbles as I can get, I'll use the bricks of glass. The larger the pieces of glass, the fewer bubbles you get in your casting. And you work in your home, then. You have a studio in your house. I have a building behind my house. Okay. Yes. I started in the basement, and then I moved into the garage. And when I took over one too many garage bays, my husband said, Out. Find a place to rent or build yourself a building. And it took me about a year in the design process to figure out how to set the building up, because I've got a separate room with the kilns in it that I can close off when I'm firing, and there's a big workspace, and everything that uses water is down one wall. So it's full, I have to admit, because the more processes I do, the more equipment I acquire. Right. In case I haven't mentioned it, I'm a tool junkie. I know. Tools are amazing. Well, my dad always believed in having the right tool for the job. I got that gene. So tool junkie, glass lover, and I have three addictions, I actually admit to. One is glass. The second one is color. And the third one happens to be ice cream. All exquisite, I would say. All very good things to be passionate about. I have sort of, I guess, a kind of a frivolous question on cold working. When you're doing the cold working and you're working in water, can you make the water warm? Because I was imagining, because so much of art we put ourselves through kind of torturous situations at times, so I was wondering, is the cold working done with, can you warm up that water as you're working with it? Yes, you can. Particularly at the tile saw, because the tile saw is a big machine here, and I dress when I use the tile saw. I'm gorgeous in my full rain suit, my gardening boots, you know, the full visor on the head, because a lot of water comes off the tile saw. We use water when cutting or grinding glass to keep from heating the glass and cracking it, quite frankly. But particularly to my tile saw, I have a hot water source. The others, I don't get so wet, so having hot water isn't so important. But, yes, you can always add hot water. Good question. And then when working, I noticed you had an exhibit, I think in September, called Transparent Opaque. So how do you work that? You know, you have some of the colors, but what's that process like to get something transparent opaque? Well, it's either transparent or opaque. You're right, sometimes it's a mix. Particularly in the streaky pieces of glass I use, some of it could be very transparent and some of it could be very opaque. But the show was intended to be an avenue for displaying basically both kinds of color effect, if you want to call it that. There were some transparent pieces in the show, there were a lot of folded pieces in the show, and there were solids there as well. And particularly with the solids, we want some transparency so you can see through them. There are exceptions. I recently created a trio of obelisks that are matte black, and it's like they're just soaking up the light. Wow. But that's an exception for me. I like to use transparency in my solids. So when you're thinking about a piece, are you doing a bunch of sketches? And how do you transition from – so do you exhaust yourself with the folded pieces and then move to solid pieces, or what is your – I mean, like, you know, because sometimes I like to bounce between what I'm doing, you know. So what is your day like in the studio, I guess is what I'm asking. They're all going on at the same time. And the reason for that is they all take so long to develop. The folded pieces, for example, frequently have six different trips through the kiln, and each cycle takes about 48 hours. And the solids, I will work on until my arms are ready to fall off, and then I have to set it aside for another day. So the answer is, yes, they're all going on at the same time. To begin each piece, particularly the solids, I do sketches, I do designs. And then in my sketchbook, and then particularly if it's a larger piece, I'll convert to a full-scale drawing and show different views, because that helps me in the build process. If I'm laminating multiple pieces of glass together, I need to understand how thick I can create each one and what I want the final result to look like. There's a piece sitting on my table right now that's going to be a cone when it's finished. And it has clear, green, clear, amber at an angle, and then clear again on the bottom. And I can't wait to get it finished. And I'm also a little scared of getting it finished, because it's going to be a difficult process. Really, I was very attracted to the juxtaposition of the piece where it's, like, ultra smooth, but then you have, like, those jagged pieces on the inside. And so the evolution of that, did you know that you were going to that, or did the piece inform the jagged part that ultimately wound up in that? With that one, I did plan the jagged edges. But when working with glass, you don't always get what you think you're going to get. If it escapes or you drop it, the plan changes. And often the jagged edges either get rounded or smoothed off, or you just cut the whole thing at the break point and decide what the new design is going to be. I was thinking about the logistics of going to a show with your glass. And can you maybe explain that? Because I would think, oh, my gosh, you look at these delicate pieces, and how do you get them there and make sure that they're okay and back? I mean, you're taking them to, well, from Louisville to, well, South Bend when you do that one, and from Pennsylvania. What's that process like? Dissociating, tiring. They're heavy. Glass is heavy. And heavy, yes. Each piece gets packed in its own box. That's for transportation safety. And that also allows me to hand it over to a customer in a box. And then, you know, they get assembled. And all of the paraphernalia to do a show, the pedestal, the lights, all of that stuff, as well as the inventory and my suitcase, has to fit in the van. Because if it doesn't fit in the van, it doesn't get to go. So often when I pack, there's a dance that happens at the end where you try to figure out where to get those last two or three pieces in. But it gets there eventually, and then at the end of the show, it goes back in again. But, yeah, packing glass is a challenge. I bet the show is, too, because glass is shown very, I mean, it needs the light. It needs auxiliary light to really make it, I don't know, to showcase it. So do you have to bring all those auxiliary lights yourself generally when you work with glass? Yes, I bring the lights. Often the things that sit on pedestals have a light underneath them. And the light goes with the piece of glass, so that people don't have to figure out how to light the piece when they get it home. It's just easier for all of us if I do it that way. That's a good idea. So how many shows do you do a year? I was looking at your website, and so you do several shows. But do you also do anything local, too? There's a two-part question there. Yes, well, you mentioned the show Transparent and Opaque. That was a local one-person show at a gallery. My work's also featured at a number of galleries. So I have a local gallery called Core Gallery here in Louisville that handles a lot of my work. And then I'm at a gallery in Dallas and a couple of other smaller ones around the country. So it keeps me quite busy. And how did you get hooked up with Shireen for the South Bend show? That actually happened through Kent Epler. He is also doing the show. She recruited him first, and Kent recruited me. And now I've gone on and done my own recruiting. So there's a whole contingent of us Kentucky and southern Indiana people who actually make the trip to South Bend, bring our goods, bring our good neighborliness, and Cheetos. Cheetos. Color. Well, we're about one minute left, and we did have Kent on for an interview before we had you on. But anyway, tell us a little bit how people could find you online, everything, and maybe a future exhibit you have past South Bend. Okay. After South Bend, I'm going to be in Baltimore at the American Craft Council show in March, the first part of March. To reach me, my email is info, I-N-F-O, at annclem.com. My website, it's easy. It's annclem.com. I'm on Facebook as Ann Clem Reflections, and Instagram, Ann Clem Underbar Reflections. Well, we appreciate this great interview with you, Ann. Very informative. Congratulations on the South Bend show and being part of that. That's Ann Clem, and you can find her also on our webpage when you click on her picture, annclem.com. Thank you so much for coming on Art of the Year and sharing your art journey. Yeah, thank you so much, Ann. Good luck. Thank you for having me. I appreciate this. Art of the Year listeners, do you have a suggestion for a possible guest on our show, whether it's an artist, musician, author, gallery, theater, concert, or some other artistic endeavor that you are aware of, or a topic of interest to our listeners? Email us at aota at breck.com. That's aota at breck, B-R-E-C-H, .com. This is Karen Maravilla with It's Just Serendipity, and you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM and on WVLP, 103.1 FM. We would like to welcome Keith Kirkpatrick to Art on the Air. Keith has earned recognition as a leading authority on leadership and entrepreneurship. He is a trusted coach and advisor to many business organizations and community leaders. He is president of the KPM Group and founder of the South Shore Leadership Center. He also founded the Institute for Innovative Leadership at Indiana University Northwest and the Northwest Indiana Entrepreneurship Academy, serving both organizations as executive director. His book is titled Leadersick, Becoming a Healthy Leader, Symptoms, Impact, Treatment. Thank you for joining us on Art on the Air. Aloha and welcome, Keith. Oh, thank you for inviting me. Nice to meet you. This is great. Well, and Keith and I have a little bit of a history, being a graduate of the Leadership in Northwest Indiana Program and back in the day serving the board for quite a period there. And one of the things I always like to say is leadership is what actually connected me to Lakeshore Public Media at that time, WYAN, and had a long history of being with them since 1993. So, but welcome to the show. Glad to have you on. Oh, thank you. And we had a great partnership of bringing L&I classes over to the station all the time for the TV and to learn about media. And you were always a help with that. And so it was great. Well, our audience always wants to know a little bit about you before we get to your book and, you know, how it impacts. I always like to say your origin story. And so tell us how you got from where you were to where you are now. So tell us all about Keith. Yeah, about that three-year-old leader. You know, I usually do start my presentations off and say I've pretty much been a leader my entire life. And that's it starts when you're the oldest grandchild on one side and the oldest grandchild on the other side. And you're also the oldest great grandchild. From the very beginning, you were always told you're in charge. And if the kids mess up, you're going to be blamed. So you have to kind of assume responsibility for leadership really early on. So you're not too far. It might have been more like seven or eight that I got stuck with the five-year-olds. But I have always been in leadership positions. And I've had a really, I think, interesting journey. It's a very long one. So I try to just say kind of I was in lots of leadership roles in college and high school. Started my first business when I was 25 or 24, although I'd had a couple of business ventures at the university before that. And kind of in my 20s, I described it as trying to save the world. I worked in police stations in Chicago with a court system and anti-poverty programs and technical education, those kind of things. And I went into a decade of manufacturing, which was something completely new and different to me. Then I went into teaching entrepreneurship and working with small businesses. Then I started teaching more leadership kinds of things at the university level and kind of ended up here, kind of stepped out of most of those roles a few years ago and took this book project on. In the meantime, Larry will shoot me if I don't say that I hosted Lakeshore Focus on Lakeshore PBS for nine years. 300 shows, which is pretty nice on your resume to be able to say I did 300 TV shows. So that was that was great. I've always been in leadership roles in the community, all kinds of boards. And now I'm in leadership roles in my church. Yeah, I just my dad was kind of the same way. My dad had no hobbies and I'm kind of similar to that. And people always say to my dad, what what do you do for in your spare time? He goes, I'm always involved in organizations and, you know, doing volunteering. Yeah, a lot of volunteering. So, yeah, I'm a professional volunteer. Given your background there, the book is kind of different. I didn't want to jump into it yet. But with your leadership experience, you know, you the purpose of the book is kind of like, well, it sets up a little bit of thing, but how to it treats the disease. And so tell us about that whole disease process and how that how you formulated that in your own experience. You know, you've probably started with a little more self analysis, but then how you projected that out. I have thought about writing for a long time. And it's interesting because and you'll see the dedication in the front of the book. I dedicate it to to my dad and to the guy who kind of urged me to do the book. And a guy who told me that I was a good writer and to the English teacher in college who told me I had absolutely no talent at writing. And I said and I can't remember her name. So which is probably a good thing at this point. She may be going on to better places. I don't know. But so I my whole life, I just kept thinking, you know, I'm really not a writer. I always ran organizations. I wrote technical stuff. I wrote procedures. You know, I wrote letters, business letters, wrote business organizational documents and things. But I never really thought about that. But I always had these ideas for books as time went on. I had more. And so I had kind of a stack of six or eight ideas for books. And I thought, you know, I'm going to I'm going to jump in and write one of these. Now, which one should I tackle first? And I created this. And I tell people to do this, to really evaluate your book ideas and see how it works. And I went through it like, OK, how big would the market be? How different would it be? How much competition is there to this type of book? You know, who would want to read it? Why would they get out of it? And kind of went through and scored the whole thing. And I met with a guy who was a publisher who would help people with books. And I laid all this out and asked his reaction. He goes, in the 30 years I've worked with writers, he said, I have never had anybody come in there with this kind of an analysis, he said, and really had logic and thinking about why they would select the subject matter they were going to do and why they would write that book. He said, this is this is remarkable. So I picked this one. And part of it was because it was such a unique idea. And there are so many books on leadership. And I thought, I'm not going to write another book and say to people, here's how you do leadership. Here's the way you do it. And if you follow my formula, my recipe, you will become really great leader. Oh, you will improve your leadership. Because everything I read says there's all kinds of ways to be a leader. And so I thought, what would be a little different? And I had been to a doctor's appointment years ago. And I remember sitting in the office, of course, waiting for the doctor to show up. Right. As you do sitting in there and you're hardly anything on and freezing to death. Why doesn't the doctor show up soon? So there was brochures on the wall, little pamphlets. So I picked one up and one was a mental health thing. I don't mind sharing it because it's become more about depression. And I was like, you know, I feel like I kind of get depressed every once in a while. So it had symptoms on it. It was like 11 and there were checkboxes. And when it got to the bottom, it said, if you've checked more than five of these, you should talk to your doctor. So I checked like seven or eight of them. And so what do you think? And the doctor said, well, you know, let's maybe we should get you on some medication or whatever. So that idea stuck with me. And I thought, you know, that's what leaders tend to do. They beat themselves up. But do they ever really analyze what's going on? Do they reflect upon what is happening when they are not functioning well? And I call that being sick. They're leader sick and begin to have just a lot of parallels. So the book is presented like that with symptoms. So a leader can look at the 28 diseases and can go through and check the symptom boxes. But I have way more than 10 for almost every disease. There's 20, 25 symptoms and you may have some or a bunch of them. There's an impact section. So that is about if you've got this disease, this is how it's going to affect your leadership and the people around you and the people you lead. And then there's treatment options because it's one thing to analyze it and understand what it's doing to you. But you really the important part is how are you going to get out of this? How are you going to fix it? How are you going to become healthier as a leader, a better leader? So that was kind of where the idea came from. And everybody kept saying, this is really unique. Nobody's ever written a book like this. Yeah, you get through the initial part of the book that kind of sets it up, which is, you know, in like prose and section like that. But then when you look at it, you get the like, like you were just talking about in the doctor's office, kind of a checkbox system where you check things off and analysis it. So was that inspired by that little pamphlet? Yeah, it really was. And and I thought, OK, I've got my own ideas about leadership. I've been I've been a leader my whole life. I've been in roles. I've I have messed up a lot of times. So I've had moments in my leadership of like, man, things aren't really going that well, you know, or this is not working or whatever. And and, you know, I tried to take some time to reflect. But I also saw that leaders just don't take much time to reflect upon things. They just they do. They just keep pushing. And if something messes up, they just kind of circle around it. They jump over it or start anew. Just keep going. And don't oftentimes just pull back and go, OK, how can I fix this or how can I be better? And so following that, that methodology in the doctor's office, I thought this is probably a good way to do it. And it's unique enough that maybe people will say, oh, this is kind of a fresh way to look at things. And that's what it seems to be is people are reading the book now. They're going, this is interesting. You're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM on WVLP 103.1 FM. So I've experienced personally two wildly different types of leaders. One is a quiet leadership that took a factuous or even contemptuous group of people and developed it into a really wonderful working environment. And I've also experienced a wonderful team of people completely destroyed by the executive director. And so I'm wondering, like in both of those scenarios, especially with the executive director, I wonder in your experience who oversees the executive director, you know, because in this organization the executive director's word was everything and that they had no idea what was going on internally with the staff. Well, in both those examples, first of all, the person who's very effective, a leader who's effective, still makes mistakes, you know. And so nobody's perfect. Nobody's healthy their entire life, right? We all get sick. You're going to do something. And you're even going to maybe break your leg or get a really serious bruise on your head or something. So that's what happens even to good leaders. But the really kind of lousy leaders, they probably are so infected with so many things going on that it's really difficult for them to be effective. Now, they may be a strong leader. It doesn't mean that they're a real effective leader. Or even if they're effective, it could be in a very negative way. And so there's two things I talk about in the book. The first is I'm not talking about human frailties here. These are things really specific to leaders, like you think you're right all the time, or you don't know how to delegate work, or you work everybody to death, you know, those kind of things. But I do talk early in the book about integrity and honesty and trust and say these lack of those or some version of them being weak is really not a disease. It's a basic fundamental of being a healthy leader. So what does almost every medical profession tell you? In order to live a healthy life, you need to do what? What do you think? What does the doctor always say to you? In order to lead a healthy life, you need to... Have balance. Okay, have balance. Exercise. Exercise. You're on the right track, Esther. You know what? Eat right. Eat right. Drink lots of water. You know, and get plenty of rest. So it's like if you do those things, your chances of being healthier are much higher. So I say in the book, if you are honest, if people can trust you, and you're a person of integrity, you can pretty much work through any disease because people will help you. They'll want to be part of your healing process. But if you haven't got those things, I mean, why would I want to help somebody who's in a leadership position who I just can't trust, you know, or who's always dishonest with me, who is just like, or just not good to their word, or they're just... Their integrity is just so horrible. I mean, people do follow those folks. But when things go bad, you know, those people end up in prison. They end up being ostracized by society. They get a label of being the worst leader in the world that nobody wants to hire them or bring them on. And so they pay a price for that. So I think it's really important to follow that little adage, that motto, that mantra of be honest, be trustworthy, be a person of integrity, and you can overcome any leadership disease. Not so much on leadership diseases, but as a follower of a leader. And sometimes you're in a situation where you cannot escape that leader, and they have toxic leadership. How do you deal with that as a follower? I mean, you may be working for an employer who I always hated the four-letter word boss, but someone who really that... How do you deal with that kind of toxic situation if you're maybe not in a position to leave? I come at this probably a little bit different, Larry, because I think that everybody has the potential to be a leader. And even if you have a boss or a leader that you're following, you still have a really important role. And you can choose to be very subservient to that person, or you can choose to be fairly assertive and try to deal with a person in a better way. Which means you've got to exert some leadership over yourself or even over others, because if that person is really damaging to you, they're probably damaging to everybody. And so why wouldn't some of the other followers look to you and go, Larry, Esther, what are you going to do to help us get out of this situation with this really terrible leader that we have? What are we going to do? And somebody has to really step up at that point. So I think choosing to be a victim and just put up with it is what a lot of people do. Some people then just start a real dysfunctional lifestyle, or they quit and move on. And those things are all possibilities. But if you believe in the cause or the organization, or you feel like you've got good ideas, yeah, you step up, you be a leader, and I think you can deal with those people. I've worked for those people, but... I think everyone has. Everybody has. Yeah, everybody has. But you know, I kind of like, I don't tolerate fools. So if I had a boss who just wasn't really functional, I didn't really put up with it very long. I usually tried to fix it, because I felt usually what I was doing was important. What the organization was doing was important. What the business was doing was important. Everybody was employed there, and if they're screwing things up, I want to help fix that. And sometimes you just have to play hardball with those people. Which is why we have leaders sick, right? That's the very reason why. Well, now with the book, you can take it to the board of directors or to the partners of the investors and hold this book up and go, You know something? The guy we got running this organization right now, there are 28 diseases in here, and she's got 18 of them. 28 of them. We want this person running this organization. Well, you know, tell us a little bit about, you categorize the disease in various categories, like self, style, people. So go through those and some of the symptoms and fixes that you have. Yeah, the first thing I came up with was that there are five groups of diseases. The first is about yourself, just kind of how you understand who you are and how aware you are of how you function. And so that's things like you have too big of an ego or you rely upon power or you think you need to be perfect, those kind of things. The second area was capacity. It's just like this is the load you take on and the balance you have. Like you talked about earlier, Larry, what's the balance in your life? And so how much can you really take on? And the very first disease in there is called expletonomy. If you really look at it, it's expletonomy, which almost is too much on your plate. Just read the words and move it around a little bit. But almost every leader, as soon as they see that one, go, yep, I got that one or I've had it. You know, I've learned to balance my life. But the vast majority of leaders, that's probably the most, that's the common cold right there for a leader. And the rest is just, you know, just kind of you wander around, you just, you're unable to integrate your personal life. You just work as everything for you. Not picking the right team. Well, not picking the right team is assignment. That's another group. It's like how you assign the work, how it's divided up. You think you're too good for certain things to be done or you expect everybody to be perfect or you're overpassionate. This is a real typical one for people in a nonprofit world. They're overpassionate. It's called exocardio. So like your heart, you're way too big for this. And everybody, you know, sees that you're killing yourself, you know, for the cause. And you expect everybody else to do the same thing. So that's the assignment. Another one's style, just kind of how you approach things. There's two real favorites in here. One's called do or die-tist. You know, that's the typical slogan of we're going to do it or die. And we've worked for leaders or we've had leaders, right, that's like, you're going to kill us. You are just absolutely going to kill us if you don't kill yourself first. And you can see then some of these diseases could link together so you could have exocardio. You're so passionate, but because you are, you're going to do it no matter what it takes. And the other one, people always love this one, is cranial rectilitis. Only have to think about that for a moment and see what that is. But it's interesting, cranial rectilitis is you just have an obscure view. You cannot see things clearly because cranial rectilitis. And the last is people, just how you deal with people, what you expect of them, how you handle them. And that's about conflict and criticism and you can't pick the right people. You can't build a team. You don't know how to teach people, those kind of things. Control. So your book is available. This one came out originally in 2022, if I'm correct. But do you also do speaking engagements regarding your book? Oh, yeah. I'd love to work with some groups like that. I love working with groups, leading a discussion, just talking to them about the book. I really want to hear how people are using the book. That's an important piece. And it feeds back to the website. So the website is leadersickbook.com and you can listen to the diseases being pronounced and you can look at the definitions and you can download symptom sheets and impact sheets from it, as well as order a book. In our last minute, anything else on the horizon for you outside of the book? Yeah, do you have a speaking engagement book? I know what the second book is going to be. It's going to be stories about how people have had these diseases and how they overcome them. So I think that will be really the natural flow of this. I'm working on a couple of other things that are just a little unrelated. I'm resurrecting a group in this region called Region Leaders that's real exciting. We've already got about 300 members. And I'm working with some universities on programs for people who are highly accomplished, who want to continue their careers and rethink what they're doing. And so I'm working with Stanford and Harvard, Notre Dame, Oxford, and some universities like that on setting up programs. And that's real exciting, too. Oh, that sounds exciting. Wow. Well, if you want to know where it is, you can go to leadersickbook.com and you can find out more about that. You can also go to KeithKurtPatrick.net to find out more about Keith. And he also has a Facebook page, KeithKurtPatrick79. Keith, it's been a real pleasure reconnecting with you after this. We've been knowing each other for quite a few years. I appreciate you coming on Art on the Air. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Thank you, Esther. Next week, Art on the Air features nonprofit executive Alan Harrison discussing his new book, Scene Chain, about how nonprofit arts organizations need to be completely revamped. Next, Jay Weinberg, described as the Mark Twain with a paintbrush, producing a thought-provoking and diverse body of work. Our spotlight is on Chris Acton's over 55 beginning weaving class. We'd like to thank our guests this week on Art on the Air, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond. Art on the Air is heard Sunday at 7 p.m. on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at LakeshorePublicMedia.org and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast. Art on the Air is also heard Friday at 11 a.m. and Monday at 5 p.m. on WVLP, 103.1 FM, streaming live at WVLP.org. Our spotlight interviews are heard every Wednesday on Lakeshore Public Media. Thanks to Tom Maloney, Vice President of Radio Operation for Lakeshore Public Media, and Greg Kovach, WVLP's Station Manager. Our theme music is by Billy Foster with a vocal by Renee Foster. Art on the Air is supported by the Indiana Arts Commission, Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. We'd like to thank our current underwriters for Lakeshore Public Media, Macaulay Real Estate and Valparaiso, Olga Patrician, Senior Broker, and for WVLP, Walt Redinger of Paragon Investments. So we may continue to bring you Art on the Air. We rely on you, our listeners and underwriters, for ongoing financial support. If you're looking to support Art on the Air, we have information on our website at breck.com slash aota where you can find out how to become a supporter or underwriter of our program in whatever amount you are able. And like I say every week, don't give till it hurts. Give till it feels good. You'll feel so good about supporting Art on the Air. If you're interested in being a guest or send us information about your arts, arts-related event or exhibit, please email us at aotaatbreck.com. That's aotaatbreck, B-R-E-C-H, dot com. Or contact us through our Facebook page. Your hosts were Larry Breckner and Esther Golden, and we invite you back next week for another episode of Art on the Air. Aloha, everyone. Have a splendid week. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. You're in the know with Esther and Larry, Art on the Air today. They're in the know with Larry and Esther, Art on the Air our way. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart.