Deby ran Philly Marathon

Debbie Chiodani, the guest on the Jogger Nuts podcast, discusses her background in running and fitness. She talks about how she got into physical training and her experience with trends in fitness, mentioning Zumba, obstacle course racing, and marathon running. Debbie believes that trends in fitness are moving towards strength and inclusivity. She also discusses her experience with rowing and how it influenced her decision to train for and complete a marathon. The host shares their own experience with marathon running and the importance of consistency in training. Hello, welcome to episode one of the Jogger Nuts podcast, where we talk about running and how much fun it is. And our first guest is Debbie Chiodani. That is correct. Yes, tell us about yourself, Debbie. Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm delighted to be your first guest. I am a very active person. I love running. I also am newly the artistic director of the Rockwell Theater in Somerville, Massachusetts. And I used to be a personal trainer in New York City. And then I also used to teach at Harvard Extension School. I used to teach biochemistry. So I have a nice mix of things that, yes, confuse my parents and my friends alike. Wow, you sound like you've succeeded at everything I've tried at some point. Well, I have not succeeded in it. I am newly doing it or tried it out, but I've tried probably a lot of things. All right, where to start? All right, how did you get into physical training? Yeah, how do you, let me decide again to that field. Yeah, so when I was at Dartmouth College, I needed to do a work study program. And the coolest thing to do was be a Zumba instructor. So I actually took a Zumba class. I was like, I love this. And in order to help me pay for college, I could become a Zumba instructor and teach my fellow students, peers, and people around the community. And so then I started teaching Zumba for three years and loved it. And then when I moved to New York City, I was like, oh, I have this Zumba certificate. And they were like, Zumba's not cool anymore. You need something else. And I was like, oh, I have it. I have other things. And so then I became a fitness instructor and personal trainer. And then really, so it was out of need and embarrassment of New York City that I became a personal trainer. It's interesting that there's a lot of trends and fads in fitness that have come and gone, such as the obstacle course racing, Zumba, as you mentioned, whereas things like marathon running is just sort of always around because it attracts the same group of people who are always going to be there. How can you tell what's going to be a trend and what has staying power in the world of fitness? Ooh, gosh, that is a good question. And if I knew, I would invest in it immediately. My hunch is that the trend is going towards strength and especially inclusivity, so things that allow everybody to be able to perform it are going to be the hit things. So Zumba, I think, was one thing that seemed pretty gendered. Typically, women were the ones, even though it was founded by Beto Perez, a man who was a very, very good dancer, but it really catapulted with women. And I think that obstacle course racing is a great example, OCR, which is something I love. I just did the Spartan race, and I'm going to self-brag for a second. I came in second in my age group, which I think is amazing because I went to bed at 2 AM. But it was a blast. And what is so fun about OCR is that you can do it really no matter who you are, and you can actually feel yourself get stronger. You can do things that make you feel a little bit more functional. So I can definitely see that trend happening, as was hiking in the pandemic. Things that needed no, you didn't need to pay money to do it. You just were able to go outside. I think anything that allows and permits minimum obstacle and allows you to flourish, I think, is going to be the next trend. Whereas hula hooping or the hula hoop fitness world is like, you need this thing, and it's usually catered to one person. Whereas I think the mix is really vital to something's success. OK, is there any thing going on right now in fitness that you think no one's going to be doing this in two years? Right now? I don't know. I don't have anything that comes to mind. Nothing is cringy to me. What about you? Do you think there's anything? Nothing comes to my mind either. Yeah, like in two, in, I mean, if you look back at the step trends, like when people did step class, those are pretty gone. I mean, Peloton was in its peak during the pandemic, but it was also the most expensive way to exercise. Yeah, that's a great example. So are people still using the Pelotons, the people who got them? I don't know. They're definitely not using them to the same volume as reflected by their stock, which I bought and it plummeted, because I loved Peloton. And I still do. I love their method. But I think what you're getting at is subscription, too. And needing a subscription in order to work out is, I don't know, that's not going to last. It's not really possible to last, unless they are able to actually physically spread it to other countries, or sorry, states. So like New York Sports Club, Planet Fitness, if they can start making Peloton Studios, which I think they do have, but I guess they- I mean, Spin Class has already been a thing, and I'm surprised. Maybe it's the home. Gosh, I don't know. But I'm surprised. I mean, Spin Class seems a bit silly to me, so I'm surprised that's not one of the things that's fallen by, that's fallen off. But that's a good example of one that like, I don't see new Spin Studios come up. I feel like I've, now we have our five, like SoulCycle, and oh gosh, I don't know the, I just know the colors. They all have like- Like a biker gang. Yeah, they really do. They have their like black and yellow, red, red and black, like they all have their colors. But I think we're pretty much done with that, like Spin, yeah, Spin stuff. I don't know. I don't know what's next. That's an interesting question. I feel like maybe Celebrity, like adding more Celebrities, I feel like getting into it, like home stuff. It's definitely using your iPhone, like that's pretty new. Yeah. Being able to have that tablet. But I don't know. There's probably more experts that know, have ideas. All right, so let's talk more about running. Let's do it. Was running, for me, running was like the main thing. I mean, I'll lift weights sometimes, but like it just, I gotta go for a run at least a few times a week. For you, you've had a very broad experience with fitness and stuff, for lack of a better word. At what point did you decide, I'm gonna log in enough running to do a marathon? So when I was a kid, my dad and I would go out for runs and that was his thing. He was always a runner. And we would go around Fresh Pond, and I was like 10 years old, would keep up with my dad who was in my eyes so strong and like really try to do it. And I did notice that sort of runner's high that you get. And I feel like I always achieved that. When I was in high school, I like really liked to row because I liked the repetitive motion and it was a little bit less on my knees and ankles. And then what I also really liked was that I was so cute into the technique of rowing that it really didn't give me pain. Other people would explain their back pain to me or their knee pain, but I was so into the technique that I almost felt immune to it. I like had gotten it down. This past April, I was rowing in a kayak with my friend and I just thought like, wow, if I could row, if I could run the same way as I row, if I could like identify all of the different techniques, like tucking my hips, running on the balls of my feet, using my arms like North and South rather than like side to side, maybe I would achieve a painless running experience and be able to run a marathon. And that was, I mean, pretty naive or something maybe to think I could do it, but like I put that mindset that I would focus on technique and see how I would feel. I logged into Peloton and found that they had a Peloton training program, like three part training program. And I was like, oh, okay, like, let's go Robin. And so I tried it out. It was like, if I don't do it, if it like doesn't work out to who cares, it's not like a class, no one knows I'm taking it. And so from there, I started July 1st and then was able to do a marathon this past November 20th. And that was the first time you've done a full marathon. Yes. Excellent. Yeah. So you started running when you were 10 and it's only more recently that you've completed a full marathon. And I kind of have the same story. I started running in like my late teens. It wasn't until I was 28 that I actually got around to doing the full marathon I've been wanting to do for so long. Had you been running before like 10 miles? Like had you done those long distances? I had run 10 half marathon before I got to the starting line of my first full marathon. So I don't know what it was holding me back. I think it was just more like a time management thing. My life was kind of a mess in my twenties and I knew a marathon was gonna take a lot of time. So I was just trying to get everything perfect before I could go do this. But then I realized I'm never gonna have everything completely together. So I'm just gonna do what I want. And did you feel like it took a lot of time to do the marathon? Like as much as you thought? Yeah, like my finish time. Oh no, but like, no, like how the prep time. The prep time. Yeah, it was like a three to four month training plan. It wasn't a big deal. You know, I was already, that was the doing a full marathon was the first time I ever really closely followed a training plan. And I also saw a half marathon personal best leading up to that. So I also, although, even though I was already running for 12 years, I learned something new, how important and key consistency was and how that helped me. And that was consistency in your running, in your miles or in sticking to this plan? In sticking to this plan, I was working third shift. So I had to make a lot of choices about how I did things in my daily life. But the more consistent I was across the board, the better I was doing running as well as like all the other stuff I needed to do. Okay, term, third shift, what's that? The night shift. I worked, this was back when I was living in Maine at my parents' house. I was a custodian at the University of Maine, working 11 o'clock till seven in the morning. Wow. So it gave you a choice whether you slept the early part of the day or the late part of the day, or more realistically, never. That's brutal. So wait, so you were in that and that's when you decided to do your marathon? Yeah. All right. All right, listeners. There is no excuse for you to not run your marathon. What was the training plan? What was it, a Nike one, an Adidas one, Under Armour? I can't remember where I got it. Did I get it from the Marathon Training for Dummies book or Runner's World maybe? I don't, I'm not too sure. Cue me into what year this is. This is, I ran Rock and Roll Montreal in 2018. Okay, that's the half? So that was my first full marathon. Oh, cool. So you also went out of the country for it? Yes, that was my first. My only time ever being in a foreign country is that weekend in Montreal. Oh, that is so cool. What a good, like. It was. Yeah, what a good memory to have. How cool. And did you have a fan club? Yeah, I had a couple of friends. It's a funny story. As I was crossing the finish line, they were walking under the tunnel there. So they didn't actually see me run a single step of the marathon. That's fine. Wait, that's actually something that I found to be so crazy or like sort of stressful. The Peloton training program mentioned how hard it is to actually find your family, like that they might miss you completely. And I was like, no, no chance. And then I heard it multiple times from people. So for the Philly marathon, I was paranoid. I was like, all right, my friends, Kaya and Andrew, they were gonna meet me. I was like, at mile 13, we're gonna meet on this corner. I will be on the right, like runner's right. And we coordinated it. And I swear that was actually how it worked. Because otherwise I like missed my dad. They missed me at the finish line too. They didn't see me. It was so packed. So like, if you ever do decide to run a marathon, whoever's listening, like you have to do a plan as to where you're gonna see your friends and family. And like, I would recommend it not be the finish line. It's too packed. Of course. But that's crazy to me. Like, I would never have thought about it. And I guess it's like, and I only found out about it because it was on this Peloton thing. But like, I'm focusing on the marathon. I'm focusing on running. Like I'm not focusing on that part of the cheer squad. Like you find me folks. And then I had to be like, no, I felt like a wedding planner or something. I was like so particular about the corner and everything. Somewhere, I was listening to another running podcast. There's like a, some sort of pamphlet, booklet type thing on how to spectate a marathon. If you have a friend or a family member in it, if I can find it, I'll leave a link to it in the show notes. Yeah. I mean, I just was surprised by that aspect. Did you, for your marathon itself, was it, did you get the time you wanted? Did you? Did you say not to shoot for a time when your first marathon? Did you get the time? I think I didn't. I think I could have done faster. I've since outdone that time, but it wasn't until this past fall that I outdid it. So thank you. Congratulations. So that was, this past fall was your PR? Yeah. So at Montreal, I did three hours, 21 minutes. That's amazing. Also to break that down, that's like eight minutes, 15 seconds. Sure, that sounds about right. But this past fall, I ran Vermont City Marathon in three hours, 11 minutes. That's like seven minutes, 15 seconds to a mile. Whoa, cool. That's really great. Did you, how'd you feel? Oh, it was not, it was, I didn't know I was going to be okay for a little while after the finish line, but happy I did it, you know, adrenaline rush bringing me to the finish line down Lake Champlain Public Park or whatever it's called. Yeah. So one of the things that people ask is sort of how, like, what do you think about? And I feel like that is going to be so different for everyone. Do you have something that you think about? While I'm running? I mean, I try not to, I mostly just think about garbage, you know. Do you have music? When I'm doing my training runs, but when I'm at a race, you know, that's sort of the main experience is the race itself. So I decide, you know, not to have music and let the race itself be the entertainment. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course it does. I just find it, that can be tough, right? In Vermont, I'm assuming there's some dead spots. If it's in Burlington, Vermont, you would be surprised. There is so much crowd support. You would think you're in New York City. There's live music on the course. Yeah, there's no dead spots at Vermont City Marathon. That's very cool to know. That's really amazing. In Philly, there was, like, actually some stretches where there was, like, not really any spectators, which I don't mind. I was fine with it, but I was surprised, I think, at the swell of people. Also, you did a great time, and I feel like my time for my marathon was four hours, 24 minutes. So I was running 10-minute miles. That was my goal. And I think I saw, like, a lot more people in support, probably when I was, like, passing one part, and then when I, like, double-backed and looped around, I saw fewer people. So I think it's also, like, the crowd definitely wanes or changes after a number of hours. But I was prepared. I was mentally prepared for it. Right. So how does Philadelphia work? Is there, like, a marathon and a half, or? There is, yeah. The half marathon's the day before. It's on Saturday. Okay, so it's not, like, because sometimes they start the half in the full runners, and then halfway through the marathon, it gets lonely on the course. Right. But that's not a problem at Philadelphia, from what I understand. Yeah. Billy was great. It was a really traditionally flat course, I would say. Like, it felt very flat, which was comparable for Boston. I had been thinking about doing one in, sort of, San Francisco area, or, like, outside, and I came to the conclusion that, if I were going to be running all those hills, I would need to train in a hillier environment. And then, also, with the time change, I was worried I might not quite make it. So that's what made me even choose Philly, even though it was a couple weeks later than my training plan, like, sort of ended. But it was, it had some interesting parts where it goes out and then comes back. So you're actually passing people who are ahead of you. Yes. That, sort of, those, like, almost hairpin loops where you, yeah, you sort of go, you know, 17, 18, 19 mile, and then coming back, you're running 20, 21, 22. And so you're just seeing these people who crush it. And also, those elite runners are so hot. It's so fun to see them. Oh my God, they're, like, heart-stopping. So cool. I was, like, almost slowing down just to, like, see them. I was, like, this is epic. Oh yeah. Yeah, Maine Marathon definitely has that going for it. Ooh, which race is the hottest? Marathon runners. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like maybe just any of the elite runners would make the cut. I think so, too. I saw some women who are running in three. They were elite. They were also, they were coming in around, like, 3.10, I believe. And the reason I know that is because there's the pace setters. Yeah, I've been a pace setter before. Oh, that's so cool. But so I saw, like, them run, and then I saw the pace setter right behind them. So I was like, oh, okay, they're making, like, 3.10. And they had those, like, ski goggle glasses, you know, the ones that are, like, super reflective and, like, big on your face, which can make you look like such a dweeb if you're not cool. Were they goggles or were they the sunglasses? They were sunglasses. Okay, I think they're called the Pit Vipers. I think that's the brand of them, but since other brands have... Emulated them? Yeah. Copycatted them? Capitalism breeds innovation. Yeah. The Pit Vipers. Anyway, they, like, trotted by in their three hours, 10 minutes, and I was like, you guys are so cool. And I still had five, six miles to go, so I wasn't, I had, I think, the glasses that are cool in, like, 2000, sorry, 1990. I had, like, these, like, racer glasses that were very hot in Berlin in, like, 1990. They're, like, the quintessential, like, Terminator-looking glasses, but no reflection. Yeah. AJ is not impressed right now. So, what did you think of everything surrounding the marathon itself at Philadelphia Marathon? Like, the Expo, the Finish Line Festival? Let's talk about, did you go to the Expo to pick up your bib? I did, yeah. It was super Americana, like, very red, white, and blue, as in, like, the Liberty Bell and the Philly. That's what they're going for? I think so. And it felt a little bit, to be honest, cheesy? I don't know, like, it didn't quite hit the mark of, like, necessarily inspirational. It felt a little sparse, actually, in terms of just their marketing and branding. Like, pseudo-inspirational, would you say? Yeah, I mean, the medal itself, I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but, like, I did not like the medal. The medal itself is, like, a square block, and then it has a bell, and the bell actually, like, dings that are, like, ding-a-ling-a-ling. I was jealous of that medal. I thought, like, I like moving parts. I do, too, but it sounded so, it sounded so, like, tinkling. I wanted a bell. It's not, like, an actual musical instrument. I know, but I would have liked a little bit of a deeper sound for my 26 miles, not, like, diddle-a-lit. Well, maybe next year they can order their medals from Musician Friends and get a nice-sounding medal. Yeah, get their Musician Friends out there. Yeah. I thought that the expo was very well done. It was super easy to get my bib, all very organized. They gave us these clear bags to stuff our stuff in. We were able to put them all in UPS trucks, and, like, before the race, very well organized. I don't think anyone, like, lost much, and the crazy thing, I wanted to ask about you and, like, what you wear, but, like, for Philly, and is the case in many places that I also didn't expect, you have to, like, whatever you wear, you have clothing on top to keep you warm if you do a winter race, and then you shed it, and you just, like, voluntarily just donate clothes, and they pick it all up at the end and then donate it to Salvation Army, which is great, but I just, I didn't, people were like, you have to buy something to shed, and I had never heard of that before. Did you do that? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I have just some old shirts that need to be thrown away anyways, and so that's. But are they, like, long sleeves and gonna keep you warm? Like, it's 30 degrees in Philly. Oh, is that cold, mom? Yeah, I mean, like, 35. Having been running for a long time, I just have that much clothing. I even have a handful of jackets. I could probably afford to lose a jacket at this point. I have so many of those. There's also those, like, the sleeves not attached to a shirt. I know a non-runner might think that's just a weird product. Why not just wear a long-sleeve shirt? Well, that's what it's for. When it gets warmer later in the day, or when you warm up, you just roll up the sleeve, and you still have it, because you can stash it away. I'm just amazed that you're not more floored by this concept. It's, like, crazy-looking. I was quite surprised that the concept of just, you can also go to Goodwill and buy stuff there to then toss. Totally, and that's what I was planning on doing. Don't get anything too special. Yeah, but I just, you, like, you run out of the corral, and you just see, like, it's as if you're at a party, like a frat party, and, like, everyone has just, like, lost their jackets and their pants. People are, like, jumping out of their sweatpants. They're, like, I don't, it's just so remarkable to see that that's a thing. I didn't know it. I did not throw anything out. I, like, had my jacket on. I coordinated to the T that I would see Kaia, and then I would give her my jacket at some point. I would get more goos from her, too. Okay. Yeah. So, it was a multifunctional stop, or, like, trade. All right, good for you that you coordinated that. Was there any, was there goos at the aid stations, though? They had cliff blocks, which I hadn't eaten before, and I was a little bit nervous about eating something I hadn't for that long. Nothing new on race day? Nothing new on race day. Yeah, and those cliff blocks, I had one of those mid-race, and I just found them difficult to chew. I don't like chewing. No. Chew during, yeah, and low-key choked on it all the time. It's just a big gummy, but, yeah, be careful. Yeah. So, I used those goos, and I was sucking those down like they were, it was happy hour at a bar. I was going nuts. Every two miles, I would eat a goo. Like, every two miles. Do you know how many goos? That's, like, 14 goos. Yeah, that's... Is that something that you did? I had a couple of, but I didn't, I probably should be eating more goos. I usually just have, like, a few for a run that's longer than 15 miles. Yeah, so, I read that that wall, like, when people hit that wall, it's because your body doesn't have enough glucose or glycogen to, like, actually fuel itself. So, literally, your brain has no more glucose. And so, at 20 miles or sort of that wall hitting is because you don't have enough energy. And usually, people will eat some goos or, like, but you're supposed to have, I think it's, like, 50 grams of carbohydrates every, I want to say it's, like, every hour. I mean, this is the fitness trainer in you. I talk to a nutritionist. Okay. I just sort of, I don't, I haven't looked, I've run so many races, but have I ever, like, really looked into stuff to that degree? I don't think so. I mean... Well, I don't think many people do, but wouldn't that be better, that you could maybe run so much, like, 10 minutes faster if you, like, didn't hit, did you ever hit the wall? Um, I don't think so. Well, that might be a special age, I think. Then maybe that's good on you, because I've heard, like, people will stagger, people will faint, people will, like, be 23 miles in and they'll just drop. I wasn't, like, stumbling or anything. I was very in control of my body, keeping my pace very consistent. So, I think I had enough carbohydrates. Maybe I could have stand to have another goo or two. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, if you're not battling it, I'm not saying you need to change, but I think that people who do find themselves wrestling with, like, fatigue at that point, it might be just because of consumption, that you need to, like, consume a little bit more, literal, like, calories in order to get yourself past. Yeah, I was just making a statement that I've been doing this for a long time. I still don't know as much as I should. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and that's the beauty of it, is, like, you can continuously learn. And that gets me to my question to you, is how many marathons have you run? Nine. That's so cool. Thank you. Can you name them? Yeah, I've done main marathon as the four-hour pace setter a couple of times. I've done Mount Desert Island, Rock and Roll Montreal. One in Rhode Island, I can't remember, which one it was, I think it was the Newport. Okay. Where they have the balls of fire, I remember. Or, no, it's Providence. I did the Providence Marathon. I've done the Big Brad 50K, which is an ultra marathon. Oh. It was a trail race, and it didn't go very well. I wasn't used to the whole trail aspect of it. I sprang my ankle two miles in and just hobbled the whole rest of the way. It was pretty bad. Had you trained on trail before? I did a couple of training runs on trail, both at the Bangor City Forest and as well as Bradbury State Park, where the race was held, but I still didn't have all the, I didn't have as hard of a time during the training. I think it was once I was at the race I really wanted to go for, and every time I ran confidently, I would trip and fall, and I think I learned that trail running just isn't for me. I'll stick to regular marathons. I've done Main Coast Marathon. Have you had any standout favorites? For as the course itself goes, Vermont City chart often comes up in the conversation of best marathon races in America, and I wouldn't put it past that. It's very aesthetic, as well as, again, the crowd support. You would think you're at the New York City Marathon, and hometown biased, I also really like Mount Desert Island. Sorry, where is that? Is that what it's called, Mount Desert? Desert Island, yes. It's a bit east of Bangor, Maine. It's where Acadia National Park is. Okay. That sounds beautiful. It is. That sounds pristine. It is, yeah. And it's done in the summer? The weekend after Columbus Day, foliage. Foliage. Okay, cool. That sounds really, is that a popular one? Oh, yeah, and it's done right after tourist season, so you don't have that group of people. Mm-hmm. Although, I think, I might be influenced by, if we're including half marathons and other races, too, I think Millinocket might be my favorite. I know that's. So sorry, where's Millinocket? It's a five-hour drive north of where we are right now. Okay. The reason I like it so much is there's aid stations that have liquor, fireball, at them. Did you partake? Of course, oh, yeah. So this is at, does it start at mile eight, or does it start at mile two? Like, are we in the marathon taking fireball? Oh, yeah, there's a few stops. Thing is, the race itself doesn't put it on. Again, there's no registration fee. So it's just everything, although any aid station that is there is put on by the people of Millinocket as a thank you for coming up here, and now fireball's just sort of associated with the Millinocket experience, you know? That's really, I can't help but think of Pitbull's fireball. No, sorry, not Pitbull. Wait, is it Pitbull? Maybe it is. I think it is. I know what song you're talking about, and yes, that song was heard many times on the race course. Yeah, yeah, Mr. Worldwide. Well, if you wanna come up for Millinocket, you can have a spot on the comedy show as well. Thank you, I would love that. Excellent. That's great. And can we stay there? Well, yeah. Oh, yeah, me and my friends are renting a cabin. Yeah, oh, I would love that. We make an ale tradition of coming up there. Yeah, so for you, you hit your PR, right? Are you gonna try to aim for another PR? Yes, I wanna keep lowering my time and time qualify for Boston. Yeah, really? At some point, I don't know if I hold off until I'm 35, so that way I have- 15 minutes, what is it? I have an extra five minutes. Five minutes, yeah, fine. Every age group I age into, but I don't know, am I gonna age that much in the next two years? I've been thinking about that, so this is my first marathon, and I'm trying to figure out if I want to do it again, and secretly, the little worm inside my brain is like, yeah, I wanna fight for qualifying for Boston, but Boston is incredibly hard. It is. I still have to cut another 11 minutes off my time. I mean, that's so, I mean, it's amazing to me. I feel like you have to train full-time, and in fact, I do something, I haven't done it in a while, so it's been a few months, but Danahee Park Run, are you familiar with it? Park Run? Yeah. I'm familiar with the Park Run brand. Yeah, so Park Run is a, started, I think, in England, and it has now become worldwide, where every Saturday at 9 a.m., Park Run starts, and you do a voluntary 5K event, totally free, donation, or no, volunteer run, and so I found myself at Danahee Park, and loved it, jumped right in, and then started volunteering there, and one of the things was that you get to meet these runners in all different abilities, really, and one of them had trained to qualify for Boston, made it to Boston, but by a second, made it in to the qualifying time, sorry, to the qualifying time, but then there's still so many people that you don't get into Boston, so you have to not only hit, for my age group, it's three hours, 30 minutes, which is, I think, eight minute, 30 second minute miles, eight, yeah, 8.30 minute miles, and I can just see myself training, and getting to like 8.29, and then still not making it, because it's the most popular marathon in the world. Yeah, that's why I was thinking about holding off until I'm 35, so my sub-three marathon would actually get me in. Yeah, but you also, doesn't it have a time, like you need it to be two years relevant? Well, yeah, you qualify, well, Or is it like one year? I thought it was one year. If you run it during this, if you run it now, you qualify for next year's, or whatever, next year's marathon. Yeah, I just, I mean, it's an amount of time. You started asking me about the amount of time, and we started getting into that when you spoke about deciding whether it would be the perfect time or not, and acknowledging that there is no perfect time, and I was really excited by the training process, because it allowed me to just not really think about, what am I gonna do today? Like, it's already planned out. You're doing your tempo run day one, you're doing your strength training day two, and it keeps going, but the time suck was, of course, that sort of long run day for me, as I think it is for normal plans, but not only do you run 18 miles, 20 miles, but then I was dead the rest of the day. I was like, I don't wanna do anything. I am so tired, and so then it was like, yeah, it took me three hours to run, to cool, to warm up, to run, to cool down, and then after that, I was like, and now I'm fried, so I really, I wonder if it gets easier for people. Do you have to do it? I had the same problem. I would wake up late on Sunday, hem and haw, and then finally go for my three-hour run, and I have a couple more hours before the open mic, but of course, I did nothing with that time. Right, it's like impossible to focus, and so I'm thinking about doing Eugene, the Eugene marathon in April. Oh, nice, that sounds cool. Yeah, and so that would be like, it would be awesome, but it would be with a goal to definitely get a significant time increase. I'm also battling my ankles and stuff. I feel like I have collapsed arches, so it's like getting more strength training exercises for my glutes and so forth, but one of the things that comes to mind is like, is it an active choice to basically give up your Sunday, and I don't understand how people do it when they have like kids, and like if you reach this level of fitness where your long run doesn't hurt as much, or if it always is gonna feel like that because you're consistently pushing yourself, like can you just run, can people now who do it 10 times, 20 times, like run 20 miles and like- I can still like do some stuff, but like I'm not like as, I mean, I struggle to be productive in general, so, but it's not like my whole, I can still like get up and walk around even after I've done a 20 mile run. Yeah, I found I could too, but like what you said, like I didn't get anything done during that interim time between that and the open mic, although I love so much that that's our priority, like I'm thinking of jocks that I would go to afterwards, and I'd be so, I would feel like so sore, I could still walk, but I was like, this is nuts, like I must be the only person who's run 18 miles, and like is doing an open mic, but no, you were in there and you were like, I also just ran 18 miles, and so now I'm thinking how many comedians have run marathons? In our scene, there's someone who told me that they got a charity bid for Boston, she was at the jungle yesterday, she told me that, and we all talk about running. So that's one. Yep, there's one. There's 80 comics in Boston. So that's, like pretend there's 100 comics, right? So there's three, 3%? Yeah, sure. I can't remember his name, but somebody told me he also did the charity bid, Boston Marathon. It's a crazy low number of Americans who have run a marathon. It's like 1%, 2%, I think. Sounds about right, sure. But that means that 1% of the population is also running these marathons over and over again, like my dad has not run a marathon, but you've run 10, so it's like your, you know when people get tattoos and you have to get more? Right. I feel like runners are those, we're the bulk of the marathon industry, it's like 1%. Back to the whole trends of fitness, the color run where they throw colored cornstarch on you, everybody did that once and now they're out of business. Well, yeah, because they call it corn, The color run. Because then they learned it was cornstarch and they're like, meh. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being. No, but I've just never heard it articulated out like that. Like colored like corn. You know what I'm talking about, right? Of course I do. Yes, of course I do, but it also is like a 5K or something, even though it's not a marathon. But I don't know, I think marathons have gone up, I did look this stuff up actually like two weeks ago, so I was interested in who runs, and it's like the large demographic of marathon runners are 30 years old and over. Like very few 20 year olds are running marathons. And I guess that's obvious, but I think there's something too that I wasn't mentally ready for a marathon when I was 22. Like running and then like endurance style sport is really like it's endurance, it's duration. It's like you see this goal that like you're at mile 12 and you still have, you know, 13, 14, 14.2 miles to go. Like there's something so different about the brain. And I would argue it's not just about your physical fitness and ability, but it's like also your ability to like hold onto things and like, yeah, last longer and be more patient. What do you think about that? It could be that, it could be you're over the drinking and club scene by the time you're, so you're not waking up at 2 a.m. on Sunday anymore. That's a really good point. Maybe that's it. But that isn't like also like high intensity. Like those are the same people that are going to Orange Theory and like blasting out their muscles and then like going to do that. And I mean like pacing yourself. I don't know, there's something, you're totally right. That's a great point about the drinking and the partying. But I just, I mean, I guess that's part of the mentality. Like you're not interested in like a quick exercise anymore. You want something that is longer. Or maybe you're just trying to feel something when you're 30 years old. No, that's not, are you doing it for that? No. I don't think anyone, I'm not trying to feel something. I'm trying to test myself. I like the test of it. What are you doing it for? I like a few things. I like the travel component. I like having something to look forward to. That's what signing up for a race does for me. And yeah, pursuing a goal, outdoing myself. Why running? Running is just what I, I started running when I was a kid, when I was 16, just because the high school cross country team needed a person, needed more people. And I just bit the, I caught the bug. I just, it's just a simple thing that I can do. It just clicked with me when I was a 16-year-old cross country kid. And because I did gain some fitness from doing it, I never wanted to be without this level of fitness I've acquired. So you see this as a pretty lifelong thing? Yes, yes. Yes, 2006, that's when I was 16 years old. That was a long time ago. And I've, I've had other hobbies. They've come and gone. I chose the hobby that kept me fit. Yeah, that's great. Ask me, ask me why running? Why running, Debbie? I really love that you can do it anywhere in any city and like anywhere in any place and like explore your surroundings. And I feel like that, that's what kept me in it is just that freedom. And then, but what I love that you said too is just that it's like, that there is also just something that keeps you fit. I feel like you do have to have this sort of mobility, a little bit of playfulness to be able to like go outside when it's so cold outside. Or like, you have to like, there's something that's a little curious about running. Like you have to be willing to explore, willing to exert yourself to feeling like at first maybe not so great, but then achieve this sort of runner's high. And I do hope that it's a lifelong thing for me too. I hope that whenever I pass these older people running along the Charles River that I will like be one of those people one day where it's like my knees and everything, they're okay. Like I know how to do this. I know how to move my body in this way because running does feel so essential. Exactly. I'm glad you brought up the travel component because I like to travel, but then when you're at a place, then it becomes a question of what do you do? How do you experience this place? I think running is a great way of doing that. I think we've reached the end of our time together, Debbie. Thank you so much for doing this with me. Likewise. Thank you for having me, AJ. It's been a pleasure. And thanks for getting us this recording space. You're welcome. Wow. CCTV, amazing place. Yes. So thank you very much, Debbie. I'll see you at an open mic sometime around. Yes, or at a show. Awesome. Thank you for listening. That was the very first episode of the Jogger Nuts podcast. Thank you, Debbie Shiodani for doing this with me. I would like to make some corrections. I said that I ran the Vermont City Marathon in the fall. No, it takes place in the spring on Memorial Day weekend every year. Also, the book I used for training for my first marathon was Running Your First Marathon by Andrew Castor. It includes a 20-week training program. And also Marathon Spectator Guide is an ebook by Matt Kuzman. Thank you for listening. There's more coming. Once I'm five episodes in, I'm gonna announce a recording schedule and commit to it. I'm new to podcasting and editing audio. So please be patient. Until next time, have fun out there, you Jogger Nuts.