WRRAP - 11/12/2023 - The one with Francois

The WRAP podcast discusses regional and national rugby in Wales. They introduce guests Carwyn and Francisco. The hosts talk about their drink of the week, including various beers and gin. They then move on to discuss rugby news, including talks between Bristol Bears and Dragons' Leon Brown, and Eddie Jones becoming Japan's new coach. There is banter and humor throughout the conversation. Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there if you want, or you can email us at welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. With all the boring stuff out of the way, let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast with me, Lee G, joining me as usual, Jamie and James. Good evening, gentlemen. Good evening. And joining us from Cardiff, so we've benched highly this week, we've gotten to the 75th minute and we've gone, right, we nearly need to nail this down now. So we're bringing on the big guns. And from the Cardiff Central podcast and from Pod Cymru is Carwyn. Good evening, Carwyn. Good evening, Lee, how are you doing? Good, mate. Good. So in addition to that, because we've got Black Lion this week and nobody's got a bloody clue about the Black Lions, we brought in an expert in all things minor European club related, a friend of the pod, Francisco Isaac. How are you, friend? Thank you for inviting me again. It wouldn't feel the same if we don't see you at least once a month, mate. It just doesn't feel right, you know? Well, you are special enough for me. So once a month is good. I'll talk with Harley about the money that you're going to pay me to come here every time. Or it's the other way around. If I have to pay you, I can give money, but I can give you good beer from Madeira if you want. Ah, there you go. See, now you're talking our language. There you do. Madeira beer is worth its weight in gold. So speaking of excellent drinks, who wants to kick off with the drink of the week this week, then? James, seeing as you fannied out with a coffee two weeks ago and then didn't have the guts to come and face the. There it is. There it is. No, I am on my signature gin and blue lemonade. It is gorgeous. I'm still a bit frail from the work to do on Friday and having to play on Saturday. So I'm just stuck with the shorts tonight. So a nice little healthy gin with blue lemonade. Healthy gin. Healthy gin. Healthy. It's got berries. Oh my God. Kyle, have you got anything? I know it was a little bit late notice and stuff, but have you got a drink of the week? Yeah, you mentioned it was late notice, so I kind of just fished around in the fridge. So I had a choice between an Archer's Snaps and Lemonade or a Bira Merci. Have a guess which one is mine, which one is my partner's. Yeah, not a fan of this. This Archer's. Sorry, yeah. The brand placement. The brand placement. That offer has gone out the window, hasn't it? Archer's Snaps and Lemonade. Not a fan of that, let's be honest. But I'll be thinking the Bira Merci tonight, I think. I like an Archer's Lemonade, I won't lie. I don't mind. See, my wife's got a whole load of them as well. She's got like the Malibu, so the Malibu Pina Colada, the Malibu Strawberry Daiquiri and all that kind of stuff. So quite a few of those disappear over the weekend, you know. It's quite nice. Francisco, have you got any fancy European shit for us this week? Oh, fancy shit from you, eh? You are nice. I should have Portia, which is a Madeiran drink made by orange and lemon and rum and so on. But everyone drank the bottle yesterday. So I have just a Madeiran beer, Kural. Excellent. Cool. Which is a very good beer to drink. It's not the best one. In Portugal, the best one is Sparbok, then Kural, and everything else is piss. You drink goblin's piss. If you come here and drink Sagros, you're drinking goblin's piss. So, no Sagros. I actually like that beer. I do like Sagros, it's nice. If we have a goblin uprising in the future, you can buy their own piss to drink then. Jamie, what have you got for us this week, Jamie? Well, we had all the Tiny Rebel chat, didn't we, on the last pod? And I haven't had Tiny Rebel for ages. And I was in M&S the other day and I saw it on the shelf. I thought, yes, let's have a Tiny Rebel, the Kutch beer, the original, the best. The Welsh Red Ale. This is the flagship beer. This is the beer that you can't go wrong with on Tiny Rebel. If you want a proper beer, this is the one to go for. And I absolutely love it. It's one of my favourites. And, yes, it's going down very nice, especially in this weather. You are talking like an addict who needs a fix. No, I do. It's all in M&S, so I need a fix. That's why Welsh Red is a shit. You drink this kind of beer, it's a shit. It's not an actual alcoholic drink. It's making up. That's why you lose every game when you go to Europe and Six Nations. This is why I like having Francisco on the pod, because he just slots in perfectly well just where we kick off with that. So, as I said earlier, it was my birthday on the weekend and my boys both came home from university as a treat for me. And one of the presents that they got me was a beer called Gil from Mars. It's by Buxton Brewery. I've got, like, eight weeks' worth of beer to get through and so much wine and spirits that you would not believe. I literally had to extend the drinks cabinet for Christmas. So, yes, it's called Gil from Mars. I like that can. I like that. It looks like it's right up Jamie's street, to be honest. But I was looking through all of the stuff, so it's a cloudy-ish kind of day. It's all right, it's quite nice. But I was going through all the stuff they got me and they're 8%, 8.5%, 7.5%. You'll be careful now. And I'm like, oh, Christ, this one's five, so that's... That's okay for them. I can cope with that. I got through that. So, yeah. So that's my... I've got a whole load of them. Yeah. Your tiny rebel's got some work to do over the next couple of weeks, my friend, trust me. It has. It absolutely has, hasn't it? Right, okay. So we're going to do things slightly differently this week because we've got Francisco here, but we're going to start off with a little bit of Newsdesk. No introduction, James, just straight into Newsdesk. Off you go, mate. What have we got? Okay, just a couple of news stories this week. It shouldn't take too long. So the first one, the rugby paper are reporting that Bristol Bears have held talks with Dragons of Wales, tied to Leon Brown. Brown is out of contract out on the brain next summer. And while discussions have been held, terms have yet to be agreed. So that'll be quite interesting, one to keep an eye on. We've already seen George North, the first big summer signing, I suppose, going off outside of Wales. So it'll be interesting to see if Leon Brown and others will follow. So, yeah, one to keep an eye on with that one. And the next story, after months of reports and continuous denials, it's going to shock you all to learn that Eddie Jones is set to be named Japan's new coach just six weeks after walking out on the Wallabies. So Jones denied he'd spoken to Japan 14 times, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. But guess what? He's now going to take the role and is set to be confirmed later this week. So what do you think of that, Ed? He didn't lie. He didn't lie. He said he was not talking with Japan. He's talking with Japan. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. He's not lying. Come on. He's kind of made a bed for himself, hasn't he? Can you imagine the next time Japan play Australia? It's just going to be... There's stuff that's going to get thrown at him. What a shitstorm, though, for Australian rugby. And you can see this coming a mile off. The more he kept denying it, the more you thought he's going to be Japan's new head coach. You just knew it. And let's not forget, before the World Cup, when Australia played France in our warm-up, he had a Zoom meeting with the Japanese Rugby Union then, even before the World Cup. So he knew exactly what he was doing and it just doesn't come as a surprise at all. I mean, he's a good coach, but a bit of a shit bloke to be doing stuff like that, I'm sorry. And no wonder the Australian Rugby Union are furious. So they shouldn't be, you know? What a waste. They'd be better off just sticking with Dave Rennie, wouldn't they? If they'd just stuck with Dave Rennie, they wouldn't have had any of this shit show. And they probably wouldn't have even gone to full stage, I reckon. Sorry, can you imagine if Japan only phoned Eddie Johnson so he can give his opinion on the future head coach? You know what, Mike? I might be interested in a job. But aren't you going to stick with Australia? Nah, mate, it's down the road now. I will go to Japan again. OK? That's good to hear you. I imagine that he took the job out of Dave Rennie's hands. Can you imagine? Maybe he hates Dave Rennie. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Dave Rennie was going to Japan, and he said, no, no, I'm going to get Dave Rennie's job again. It's going to be bingo night for me tonight. Just to piss Dave Rennie off. Well, I hear that Carwin was all set to do a Zoom call with Japan, but he couldn't find a fucking decent Wi-Fi signal, so that's what this is. Don't start on Wi-Fi signals, honest to God. This is the biggest palaver I've ever had in my life with Wi-Fi. Moved into the house end of October. Bought the Wi-Fi. Haven't had it yet. I haven't had the Wi-Fi yet. It's still at the temper. No. They installed it the other day, and they were like, apparently the light needs to be under 27, minus 70, so it's broken. Cable's broken. So I'm absolutely, honestly, honest to God, it's an absolute disaster. It could be worse, mate. It could be worse, mate. You could be Martin on the Scarlett's pod that tried to do a pod from his car while he was waiting for his kids at rugby training and just kept disappearing every 30 seconds. You come back on and you go, right, tell us about this, quick, quick. Oh, no, he's gone. He's gone again. That was the best podcast ever. Martin podcasts like he's reporting from a war zone, just like getting out every, like, 10 seconds. Ducking and hiding. Incoming. But he's on tune with the Scarlett's. He disappears at every 30 seconds. Oh, yeah. Oh, OK. What was the score between the Scarlett's? What was the score of the Scarlett's and Cardiff, Francisco? Now that you're a big Scarlett's fan, you know. I'm a Cardiff fan. Cardiff fan, yeah. I have cussed so many times while I was watching it. Oh, the Cardiff's play well after 30 seconds. Oh, no. It's going to end horribly for everyone. Yeah. You're new to Cardiff, Francisco, I can tell. You need to get used to that. I've watched rugby in general, I'm afraid. This is how it is. We're full of optimism and then the ref blows his whistle and we kick off and then it goes downhill. It's one of those things. You remind me of seeing football games in Portugal. Some teams, before the game starts, I knew a fan who was very old, 80 years old, and before the ball was kicked, he said, come on, lads, tonight is our night. When the ref whistled, he said, fuck, we are done. We are going to lose big. It was every single day like this. And we all laughed. I'm going home, I'm going home. He went to the booth and came back, went to the booth and came back, and it was always like this. So, I'm introduced to football with Cardiff. Yeah, you'll get there like that with Cardiff. Right. So, let's talk about games coming up this weekend. So, let's talk about a Friday night game, Scarlets against Black Lions. Francisco, tell us about Black Lions. Where are they from? What do they play like? Who have they got playing for? I mean, they pushed Gloucester really, really close last weekend. It's the first time many of us will have seen them. So, what are we expected to see this weekend? Well, I hope I expect to see the Black Lion. And I know everyone says Black Lions, me included, and it is the reasonable thing, Black Lions, but the team is called Black Lion. I don't know why. What was the decision? Why didn't they just put an S if it was a marking stunt or they ran out of money? I don't know. It's Black Lions. But, look, they are the two-time Super Cup, Rio de Janeiro Super Cup winners. They're going to try to football third at the 22 of December, and they are a very good team. At least 16 players from the Lello squad play for the Black Lion, be it Shariqadze, Tabutsadze, Matkava, Ivinashvili, and some others. So, it's a good team. And against Gloucester, I thought they were going to win. I had high hopes. But by the end of the game, they amassed 14 penalties against them, and Gloucester only conceded four. So, it's one of the major letdowns. And I'll start with this. If the Scarlets can remain disciplined and focused for most of the game, they're going to win it. Because the Black Lions risk too much in a breakdown and try to throw the ball always in the rug. And normally, well, when you get refs that are used to catch teams doing like this, like we saw with Sadroshli this weekend with Ogara, naturally going man with the penalty count. But the Black Lions normally try to do this to slow the other team. And they almost won against Gloucester, but I think they rushed things. And one of their main platforms to score tries is the mole. And if you go watch the full highlights, you can see at least one of the moles that was driving directly to the try line. And because someone wants to take the ball and score the try like the hero, the ball got lost and the referee couldn't see it. So, it was just a try area drop goal. And that's basically two of the facts of the Black Lions, mole and discipline. But I can talk about a lot of things about them. It's going to be a very physical game. They like to turn up the heat, very much like the Lellos, without the winger, the fullback. David, anyone can help me. I don't think any of us are going to be able to help you. No, you can. If I saw you all, you'll know. Well, and they're missing some of the guys. Ted Abzante plays in Breve and so on. It's a good side. And if the scouts don't take it seriously from the first minute, they're going to have a very bad night. Because normally, they are very good at defense, and in attack, they are efficient. Against Gloucester, Gloucester took the mission very seriously from the get-go, and they won. But barely and scrappily won, because in the last ten minutes, I thought the Black Lions would get the win. But, well, they rushed things, and the main concern for them for Friday is to be more patient and calm, because they have the knack to win at least one game in the Challenge Cup. So, am I right in thinking that the Black Lions team was put together a bit like regionalization in Wales to bring all of the best players together and have at least one top team that could come out and compete? It's not that old a club, is it? It's only about four or five seasons that they've been playing. Am I right on that? Yeah, you're right on the money. The team was built around 2021. They started doing plans for 2020. The idea was to give another type of competitivity to the players that were in Georgia. The best players, the players that are more poised to play for the national side, are picked, they land a contract for a full year. When they are not playing for the Black Lions, they can go back to their home teams and play for them in what we call the DD10. Now it's just a Georgian Premiership. It works like the national side without the players that are abroad, in France or England or Italy or whatever. It was a very good idea and the project is running smoothly. But they need the Super Cup to continue to have more games. So, last season they played in the Super Cup and went to South America. No, this season they went to South America and played in the Super Cup. Two years ago they played in the European Premiership Cup and went to the Curry Cup. So, it's a team that likes to travel. It's a way to professionalize players and give a different life to them. It worked for the levels for most of 2021 and 2022. Unfortunately, what we saw in the World Cup, I think, raised some concerns if the Black Lions were working. Some of the players that were picked from the team didn't amount to that much in the World Cup. And the World Cup was the biggest goal for them. But for now, the project is unaltered. They want to stay like this, help new kids like Gheorghe Tsitseridze, who is a 19-year-old full-back, an incredible player, who is going to be in the next World Cup. U20 played this year also. And it's one of those guys that you love to see, because it's thanks to the Black Lions that you'll be more prepared to go to the level. So, they take very seriously this side. It's not just that they select some guys on a Thursday, they train on a Friday and then go to play on a Saturday. No, they train every day of the week. They are full pros and they are not coming here to play around. I'm shitting myself a bit now, boys, I'll be honest. I'm sitting here going like, ah, we're going to get proper fucked over this weekend, aren't we? They were good. I watched that game against Gloucester. They looked good, the Black Lions. But it was like watching the Dragons in some ways, where you could see what they're trying to do in attack. They looked really dangerous in attack, but they made too many errors. And then you could see there were a lot of penalties and the line-out didn't quite function. Gloucester had to work very hard for that win. It wasn't easy for them. This was a big banana skin and they came away with a win. But I was quite impressed with Black Lion. Going along, Francisco says, if Scarlett's take them lightly or they're not quite on it, they'll cause Scarlett a lot of problems because they're very physical as well. That's what impressed me as well, the physicality and how dangerous they looked in attack. And if they clipped on the night, they could definitely, you know, I'm not saying they're going to beat Scarlett, but I certainly think it could be a very tight encounter. I'm looking forward to it. I think it's quite intriguing, this game. James will. James will say they're going to beat the Scarletts, because that's just his starting point. Am I right there, James? They were very physical in the scrap. You know, they're a physical team. But, you know, having spoken to one of the Gloucester players who did play that night, they were a very physical team. Yeah. Like, they were in your face. They were all the things that the Scarletts have struggled with. And I'm not saying this just to be a dick to Scarlett. There is genuinely a problem with Scarlett's physicality. Right? They don't, you know, their front foot, they don't like the physical contact. You know, they don't, they're giving up metres too easy in tackle. You know, you look at the game this weekend, that was a Castro, you know, very weak Castro team. They gave up, like, was it the second or third most metres in Europe this weekend. You know, it's a genuine concern for the Scarletts. Yes, I like to be a dick with the Scarletts because I hate them. But... Really? You don't get that impression, James? No, no, I'm quite happy about it. Exactly, you know. I have friends who are Scarlett fans. But they genuinely have a problem with physicality, especially in and around the ruck area. So I think it could be a problem. And, you know, time will tell. They do have a weak front five for Scarletts, though, in fairness, they do. And you've got a mate, Darlene, as well, haven't you? Yeah, but I just, I like the fact that normally I'll ask James about the Ospreys and he'll sag off the Scarletts. So now I said to him, you know, tell us about Black Lions, what do you think about Black Lions? Well, the Scarletts front five, James... Scarletts, yeah! He's still talking about the Scarletts. You sad old man, I answer your question. Oh my God. Carwyn, what do you reckon for the weekend, mate? Let's go on, how bad are the Scarletts going to struggle, just to keep James happy? Well, the thing that made me laugh there from Francisco was that he said that if the Scarletts don't remain disciplined and don't take Black Lions seriously from the first minute, well, Scarletts are down to 14 within a minute on the weekend. So there is discipline for you out the window. And then you add in... The type five is a thing. Like, they were dominated against Ospreys, Cardiff couldn't dominate in the same way and therefore didn't win the game. That's the air mode to beat Scarletts, is dominate them in the scrum. And then get that platform, kick to the corner, then maybe they fall down to 14 men at some point and you score a try, or maybe four tries, while they're down to 14 men and you go away with the game. It's a bit frustrating because the Scarletts just don't have a flat platform at the moment. And the line-out was a disaster against Cass as well. And, you know, if you've got those two things struggling against the Georgian side, I'd be... I don't know if Francisco agrees, but I'd expect Black Lion will be targeted in this game. This is a game that they'll think, to be honest, the Scarletts aren't doing well in the league. We've got a really good chance of pulling off an upset. If I were Black Lion, I'd be targeted in this game and I'd fancy our chances. Scarletts, obviously, you know, if the game gets loose, if the game gets open, Scarletts are going to run away with it. But it's Black Lion's job to try and keep it as tight as possible, keep it forwards-oriented. If it rains, that's going to massively help. So, yeah, it's a banana skin for Scarletts. When I think they should come over, should being the operative word, I think, around this one. But I would have said the same about the Lions from South Africa a few weeks ago. It's a good point, though, about the weather. If it does piss down, that's not going to help the Scarletts, of course, because we know they're not very good in wet weather. That'll force them into a tight-asset piece game and that'll be bad news for the Scarletts. So, you ought to keep your fingers and toes crossed. It's a dry evening. Well, anti-raindancers in the league. I've said this for a long time. There are two types of weather in Senesci. It's either raining or it's about to rain. Those are the only two types of weather we have in Scarletts. So, I think we're used to it now. But, to be fair, Peel does make them train outside in the rain. They've got the indoor training facility and if it's pissing down, they go outside and they practice high balls. So, you know, we shouldn't be shit in the rain. We shouldn't be shit anyway. Hold on. But you are. But the other bit I was going to pick up on Carwyn's comments there Us, an hour? When the fuck did you turn into a fucking Georgian? Between the lot of you. This is like, let's all kick the Scarletts tonight. Make the most of it, boys. Because one of these days we're going to secretize, I can tell you. Oh, it'll be a big one when we do, let me tell you. The rules were whether to be part of Dan or not. I just chose an hour. Oh, fuck being part of Dan. On the weekend, I was having to be unbiased and have no opinion. So, it's nice to change. Right, let's get some predictions in for the Scarletts, Black Lions. I'm going to have to train myself to stop saying Black Lions with plural because everyone just says Black Lions. Right, Francisco, let's have a score prediction. I might go up the room for this because I've got a feeling the next couple of minutes are going to be quite difficult for me. So, let's get a score prediction out of you, Francisco, for Black Lions. Carwyn's Black Lions team and the Scarletts. Well, I'm going to curse them, but I'm going to say Black Lions 20, Scarletts 14. Gordon Bennett, yeah. And no one's arguing with you. No one's going, oh, no, no, no, no. Jamie? Let's be honest, it would be really funny if the Black Lions beat Scarletts in Park of Scarletts, wouldn't it? It wouldn't be funny for you, Scarletts fans, but for the rest of us, it would be very funny. However, I do think Scarletts will do just enough to get the job done, so I'm going to say Scarletts by six. Fair enough. James, how much are Scarletts going to lose by when they play Southern Kings? No, I actually think Scarletts will win. They'll win by seven. Having been in your situation where we did lose to the Southern Kings at home, I was reminded of that by our lovely friend Hugh Griffin in his graph last week, where it just showed us there was a rock bottom, and someone asked me, when was that? I said, that's when we lost to the fucking Kings at home. So, yeah, no, I do feel your pain, but I do think Scarletts will just have enough, especially if that game stays open, Scarletts by seven. Okay. Carwyn? Weather's meant to be sunny, so after all that, I do think Scarletts will win. The interesting one is if you're on light plays, obviously, to win off with a bit of a knock. I don't know if Lee's heard anything more on that, but if Charlie Titcombe comes in, he's going to be inexperienced, but I'm going to say Scarletts by a bit more. I think Scarletts by some 12 to 15 points, I think. I think they could be quite comfortable in the end. Probably a second-half blitz, one of those situations where Scarletts ends up running away with it, but, yeah, tight in the first four to expect. See, I like Carwyn. I like that kind of prediction. That's the sort of stuff you should be doing more of. You can come on and run. Just a question. 12 to 15 points for Scarletts against the Scarletts. That's a good point. Just a question. How many Welsh internationals play in Scarletts? Too many. How many? About half of them actually decide to play. That's the issue. Gareth Davies. Actually, we've got quite a few, and a lot of them were arrested last weekend. How many? I don't see it coming. Because it's something that you're all forgetting, that Richard Cochrane is going to sign with the Georgian Union, and all of the players want to excel in this Challenge Cup, so he can pick them for starting 2034. And I know the team is on fire. So I don't know how is the Scarletts' mood at the moment, but I can say that for the Georgians, the loss against Gloucester for them was nothing. I get worried when... How many Welsh players does Scarletts have? I just want to know this. Answer the question, Lee, for God's sake. I don't know, because half of them are out fucking injured at the minute. Ken Irwins is injured. Plumtree is injured. If you read the injury list from last weekend, Gareth Davies was injured. Fafita was injured. Dan Davies is injured again. Johnny Williams is probably due an injury, because he's played two games. So... The difference is somewhere around 15-16, generally. I'm going to go Scarletts by one, because that seems... Every time I go Scarletts by one... It's often a prediction, isn't it, Lee? Yeah. But every time I predicted Scarletts by one, we actually win. It's when I predict Scarletts by 10 or 12 or 14 that we have issues. Didn't you do Scarletts by one last week? No. No, not last week. I did. What did you say last week? I can't remember. James was drinking coffee anyway. He wouldn't fucking know. He was off being a faggot. Two weeks ago. I listened to the pod last week. Yeah, you were still recovering from your coffee last week, mate. Did any of you say that Kostya was going to lose against Scarletts? I think I predicted a prediction. Apart from Lee, obviously, I think. Oh, this is just kick Lee tonight, isn't it? It's just... Go on, Karl. What I will say... What I will say, I don't think... This is going to maybe get carried away, but I don't think Scarletts played that badly last week when they were playing 15. When it was 15 versus 15, the end score was 16-10 to Scarletts. But the problem was... Or maybe 13-10. But the problem was that they couldn't keep 15 men on the pitch. Yeah, I think you sort of line that out. You sort of age set pieces out, one or the other. And Scarletts have got an opportunity to show what they can do in the back. But at the moment, they can't sort out what a set piece is. And that's the main problem, I think. Well... We'll talk about the games later and stuff. But the rumour I'm hearing is that our forwards coach is pretty much taking the brunt of the blame at the minute and may have a rather nasty Christmas present if he doesn't fuck his fucking ideas up. So... I say that. I mean, the guy's 6'10 and 18 stone. I'm not going to say that to his face. La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. Yes, I know. It was him. He's the one. My name is Martin. No, he is the one getting a lot of the flack at the minute. And for obvious reasons. The line-out isn't functioning, the scrum isn't functioning. It's not like we're making up for it in rucks and open play or anything. So... Yeah. You know, that's part of the crap bit of being a coach is if it's not working, it really shows. So... There we go. Anyway, let's go to the big boy division. Let's go to Cardiff playing Bath on Saturday night, 8 o'clock. So, one of the latest kind of I'll follow the money fans, Francisco, has decided to follow Cardiff for this season until he comes to his senses at the end of the season when he looks at the table and goes, all right, okay. That's why Harley was desperate for me to follow Cardiff. So, thoughts on Cardiff and Bath then, Francisco? Well, I think Cardiff is going to Bath with a humility game. That I'm sure of it. This was a punt, a very bad one, but it was one. I don't know. Look, this Cardiff side... For me, it's the joker. Sometimes, he comes to Gotham and can even drive Batman to his knees. Other nights, he's caught by the stupid policemen around. So, it's just a weird side. But it's better than the Scarletts and definitely better than the Dragons. I think my only mistake was not looking to the all-space with good eyes because maybe the all-space is a team that should have gone. No, definitely not. Trust me, we're no fucking better. Look, I don't know. At the end of the season, I'm going to just do this to the table if Cardiff is one of the last. And for me, it finishes at the top. So, whatever it was, it's on the top for me. But I think Cardiff is going to lose. I'm going to do the score prediction now. 20-3. And that's it. Now, 40-3. Going to get completely humiliated by Batman. Blimey. Okay. Carwyn, follow that up then, mate. You're going to get absolutely destroyed by 40-odd points. What's your thoughts on that? In this class, I guess destroyed. That's the first thing I'd say. I'd be really surprised if that's the scoreline. I think, you know, that result against Toulouse looks terrible. Worst result in 17 years, all that sort of stuff in Europe. But there were a lot of changes. It's kind of a focus on this week against Bath. They fancied their chances against Bath for some reason because half-lighting, let's be honest about it. Half-lighting, incredible rugby. Ollie Lawrence is looking like a man possessed at 13. Joe Cochran-Segars learnt how to catch a rugby ball. They are playing really good rugby. I just don't think things... That scoreline looked terrible last week. But it wasn't as bad as that. I think this week, the result... You'd back Bath. You'd always back Bath. But I backed Stormers a couple of weeks ago. And that's what Cardiff do. They put in a brilliant performance one week, terrible performance the next week. And then they back it up with a brilliant performance. Frustratingly, that's been the case for the last six years, probably. If we're honest about it. That's just the Cardiff way, if there is a Cardiff way. I am still going to say Bath are favourites, though. Bath are comfortable favourites. And Bath should win, really. Because if they get that forward dominance that I expect they'll get, then they've got the backs to put Cardiff away. And I don't think Cardiff have got enough at the moment, especially with injuries. That back row is a bit of a problem at the moment with injuries and inexperienced players playing there. It's going to be difficult to get dominance in that. In that Jackalere, especially. Slow down Bath's ball. It was a huge problem last week. It's going to be a huge problem this week. So, yeah, I'd say Bath should win. But I don't think humiliated by six to ten, probably. Okey-dokey. Interesting. James? It's a tricky one. Ellis Jenkins chose the worst time to be suspended. Hang on a second, hang on a second. Are you going to start talking about the fucking Scarlet's game now, James? No, I'm talking about the fact that this renegade, This renegade is really... We talked recently about Cardiff not having the leadership. Ellis Jenkins comes back, they make a big song and dance about it, rightly so, because his leadership was excellent. And now he's gone, all of a sudden there's that void again. And when you're going into a home game, which would most likely be a proper sell-out against Bath, in Europe, in the big cap, you want your leaders, you want your Ellis Jenkins on the pitch. There's no reflection on Lucas de la Rua, and Mackenzie Martin as well, because I think they're going to be both fantastic players. They're just really inexperienced. And you're going up against a gnarly Bath pack, led by Johan van Graant, who is notorious for... He loves his big, gnarly forwards. And then that back line for Bath is just box office. I could watch. I watched bits of the game against Ulster, and they just ooze class. Don't worry, there will be ways for Cardiff to exploit that. I just don't think it'll be enough, and I think that gap in leadership is going to show a lot. So I think Bath by 15, and that's me being generous, I think. I'm quite impressed that you didn't mention the Scarlets, and how shit the Scarlets were. I thought you did well there, mate. I thought you did well. Why would I bring up the Scarlets? I'd never do that. More gin, more gin. Jamie, what do you think, mate? Well, the good news for Cardiff is that this is a more winnable game than to lose a week. So that's the good news. And the fact is, they are going to be looking to have two home wins against Bath and Harlequins. It's going to be difficult, but they'll feel those are the games they'll target in getting some success at. The bad news for Cardiff is Bath are actually a very good team now. They're doing really well in the premiership. They had a very good win over Ulster. They look a proper side. And Cardiff have got injuries. And James is spot on, because he stole my thunder a little bit, because I was going to talk about Ellis Jenkins, because I remember the ponder we did, and James mentioned, raise your leaders, raise your leaders. But then Ellis Jenkins comes back. You know, we've all seen that scrum fight, doing the runs on social media to death. He is a leader. He's a very good player. And I think Cardiff are lacking those at the moment. And they've got a young team. They're inexperienced. However, at the Alms Park, I always feel like Cardiff can pull off a result, a surprise result. It would not surprise me if they did pull off a result against Bath. Not saying they will, but it wouldn't surprise me, because I think Cardiff are much stronger at home than they are on the road. And they are very good attack-wise. But it's the pack, isn't it? Can they front up, you know, the young kids in the back row, break down ball? It is going to be tough. I don't think it's going to be a hammering. I don't think it's going to be a steady score, like 20, 30 plus to Bath. But I do think Bath will win by a score or two. Well, let's say Bath by nine points then. I'll go for Bath by nine. Okay. So, I'm... The thing for me, this is Saturday night, eight o'clock. Yeah. And a whole load of Bath supporters are going to come over, spend an afternoon in Cardiff. They're going to go to Cardiff, Winter Wonderland. The ground is going to be absolutely bouncing. It's going to be jumping. There's going to be drums. There's going to be trumpets. There's going to be... That's just how I feel. Yeah, there's going to be all sorts of... So, the atmosphere is going to be absolutely superb. They're going to sell out hospitality left, right and centre. The guys are going to be renting out their flats and standing in their garden in their pants and all of that kind of stuff just to celebrate. And I think that works in Cardiff's favour. I think once you get an atmosphere like that in there, Cardiff do respond. So, yeah, I think... Cardiff are just one of those sides that you never actually know who's going to turn up. And you could put the same 15 out one week and the same 15 out the week after and get two completely different results. So, I think with the atmosphere, with the big focus on it, it's almost a local derby. Bath isn't that far away. So, I think it's going to all go in Cardiff's favour. The bit that I was going to say about Bath, that is something that, I mean, we can learn from it in Welsh Rugby or we can kind of wait and see if it self-implodes. But it wasn't that long ago that Bath were, you know, in danger of being relegated. If there had been relegation during Covid, Bath would have gone down because they were fucking awful, you know. They invested money. They got a lot of new coaches in. They ditched a lot of the old-school players and let them go back to Cardiff. They brought in a whole load of younger players, a lot of them from the Cardiff academy. So, you know, they've had a real investment period and now the ground is full every week. They're top of the table-ish. They're playing well. They're playing good rugby. And it's a rugby heartland, you know. It's a rugby heartland, but Bath is very similar to Connecticut. You know, it's not a city. Bath isn't a city. Is Bath classed as a city now? It is a city. It's very small. Bath is a city. It is, is it? It's very small. It's a very small city. So... Are you roasting kebabs at the moment? What? No, I'm saying... You wouldn't roast anybody's town, you know. Well, that's what I'm saying. You know, Bath is... When you look at the stuff around Bath, it's not got any right to be at the top of European rugby, but it has been for years and years and years because it's a heartland, in the same way that Swansea is, that Connecticut is, that Cardiff is, that Newport is, you know. And what they've shown is, if you bring good players in and you bring good coaches in, people come back and they watch. And as much as I hate the fact that people don't go and watch ship teams, we should all go and watch our sides, you know, week in, week out. But, you know, Bath have shown that if you invest the money in you, you bring the good players in, the crowds come back and that's how the ball rolls. So, you know, if the WIU are listening, and I know some of those fuckers do, and the BBC, I know they listen as well. So... Well done. You're still having a good fucking phase now, aren't you? Let's fucking do the lot of the management. You send it all, Piper, because we're going to be your fucking beans on toast for the next five years, because we're not getting any fucking deals. No, I know that people in the WIU... Fucking deals. People in the WIU are definitely listening to what supporters are saying and all that kind of stuff now. Bath is the example that you can go from bottom of the table to competing in Europe in a couple of seasons with a little bit of investment and a little bit of direction, decent coaches and a decent squad. So, I think the atmosphere and all that kind of stuff will really work in Cardiff's favour, so I can see it being another one of those last-minute games and Carwyn's going to be sitting there going like, oh, no, just hold out, boys. Just hold out. No, just don't. Oh, no. Oh, don't. Oh, kick it. No, don't kick it there. Oh, no. It's going to be a last-minute squeaky bum time, but I think Cardiff will just squeeze past by two or three points if that on Saturday. So, that's my prediction for that one. Just on that, I think it's a huge gain for Bath because you say about them being whipping boys, you know, poor team for years. They were a poor team in Europe for years. I remember them losing to the Scarlets. So, they have been a poor team for years. I thought I got it under the radar. In all seriousness, they have been a poor team for years and now they're trying to show that they're a serious outfit. They've got Finn Russell at 10, they've brought him in big bucks and all this sort of stuff, but if he's, if someone can get to him, James jokes earlier that, or said earlier that it's a terrible time for Alex Jenkins to get suspended. If this was, if ever there was a game to get suspended, get into Finn Russell a bit on this week and get suspended might not be the worst option. You've got to really, I don't mean really hurt him or anything like that, but you've got to target him. You've got to put pressure on him because he does hold under pressure sometimes and this Bath side, historically does do that. So, whether they've managed to change that tune is another question and if ever, you know, Cardiff Arms Park has got a history of making sides hold under pressure in recent years. So, or quality sides, Leinster, Stormers, Sayles, I was trying to think of any others, but yeah, there's not many, but there are good sides that hold under pressure. There are some good sides that hold under pressure. I was going to say Dragons, but I don't know. Quality sides. I thought you said quality sides. He forgot to mention Scarlet, said their voice. Let's move on, shall we, and discuss Dragons' visit to Palwa. How do they call themselves now? Poe. They still refer to themselves as Poe. It's called Palwa, but Poe is what we call them. I call them Poe, like the Teletubbies Poe. That's how I always call them. That's the way I pronounce it. Oh, Section Palwa. Section Palwa. Yeah. No, not section. It's not English, it's French. I'm sure of that. They've called, France conquered you once. Don't ask them to call you that. Go on then, teach me again. So, how do I pronounce it? Section Palwa. Section Palwa. Palwa. Palwa. Section Palwa. Oh, very good, very good, sir. Okay, Dragons and Poe. So, how will we... Jamie, talk to us about Dragons versus Section Palwa. Well, I mean, the first thing to say is, it's not live on TV. So, if Dragons fans want to watch this game, or anyone else for that matter, they're going to have to pay €7. And EPCR could go fuck themselves, quite frankly, because they won't be doing that. So, it's a piss-take. It's a piss-take on supporters. I was listening to the Pirate Rugby pod, Adenda, who does the TV guides, he was explaining, you know, the broadcast schedule, and it is very messy. There's so many broadcasters, there's so many streaming services. You've got to pay for certain games. Some of the games you pay for, individually, don't even have commentary on some of those games. And, you know, when you consider, if you're subscribing to, you know, I subscribe to Sky, I subscribe to TNT, I subscribe to Fireplay, Amazon, and it's just a piss-take, you know, to ask people to pay another €7 just to watch this game, and I'm not going to do it, so I'll have to watch the highlights. But, we go to poll in good spirits, which we'll talk about later, over that very good, but very unexpected bonus point win over Oyana. The good news for the Dragons is they have won a poll recently, so last season they went to poll and they won, so we do know how to win out there. The bad news could be, I think, Poe are going to go stronger than they did against the Sharks, so they played the Sharks and they got absolutely battered. Sharks put 50-plus points on them, but they did put out a reserved second-string team. So, I'm guessing, at home, this weekend, I think they're probably going to go stronger. And I don't know if Dragons are going to pick the same team or if they're going to rotate, because I do think they'll have the Derbys in mind, because they've got these big Christmas Derbys now coming up with Cardiff and the Scarlets. So, does Dai Flanagan rotate a little bit or does he stick with the same team? He has talked about going all-out attack for this game. He said the pressure's off, now we've got a bonus point win and we can go all-out on attack, so that'll be interesting. But, yeah, you know, now we've got a bonus point win, hopefully that'll give us a bit of momentum, a bit of confidence, and I can see us going out there and doing the job on it, depending on, you know, if they're interested and depending on what team they put out. I can see us nicking this one by about two points. I think we go there now with our tails up and that's important because Dragons are a confident side. When they go on these run of defeats, it can affect their confidence. When they go on that spiral of doom, it's very difficult to get out of. But that was a big win and a big performance and, yeah, I'm going to back us by two points. I think we'll be tight, but I think we'll get it done. I thought the spiral of doom was the new ride at Alton Towers, but they must have moved it. It probably is. Maybe it is. I don't know. They moved it to Rodney Parade for the weekend. So, what did you take out of the game last weekend, James? What are the guys going to take out from that win last weekend? Like I said, it was a bit unexpected, but then we never really knew what side was going to turn up against them. So, what did they take out of that game from last weekend? Well, they take five points out of it, which is very, very handy, especially in a group where, you know, you've got, let's not forget, you've got six teams in the pool. Four teams are going to qualify. So, Dragons are now in a very good position. So, against Poe, this isn't really a must-win game. Even if they lose, they're still going to be in a relatively good position, but it's a game and in terms of what they got out of it, look, it's a win and winning breeds confidence, doesn't it? And yes, it was unexpected and it was a very good win in very difficult conditions. You know, I was at the game and it was very windy. It was blowing a gale. I mean, you had balls going out of touch. You had balls being kicked backwards, line-outs not being strict and I think it was the 73rd minute of Saturday watching this, it's seven apiece and I'm thinking, this is just going to go two ways. It'll either be or it's going to sneak it and then we score three tries in the last seven minutes and the complexity just completely changes. The mood just lifts. The pressure is lifted and the crowd erupts. It was a really, really good night and, you know, it just breeds confidence, doesn't it? If you win, like, winning is a habit and that's what Dragons need to do, but also losing is a habit, which is what Dragons unfortunately do too often and when they go on these long losing runs, that's when confidence dips, but you could just feel the pressure being lifted in that stadium. It was a must-win game. You know, Dave Langdon talked about having a reset in Europe, you know, starting afresh because the URC has been difficult for the Dragons, but I just think they'll get a lot of confidence for that and, like I said, Dave Langdon has almost said, now, let's go out, attack. Let's go out to Poland and just go all out attack because the pressure is lifted, you know? So, it's a very good position, but I would like us to come home with at least a losing bonus point out of it, but it's not easy to go to France, you know? It's not easy, no matter who you play, no matter what team they put out, it's very, very difficult to go to France. So, it's a test, it's a big test, but if they win that, that's going to give them so much momentum and confidence going into the Christmas derby, so, yeah, fingers crossed they can go out to France. In my head, in my head, I'm practising saying uh, uh, Palwas, Francisco, what are your thoughts on the Dragons opposition? That's far. I was desperately trying to get the name right and I was going it's Section Palwas, that's Section Palwas and then I fucked up Francisco. Oh, this is great, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 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