We're all harmony on here

The hosts discuss Wales' performance in a recent rugby match. They talk about the team's struggles in the first half, particularly in the kicking game and the lineouts. They also mention Josh Adams' mistake and the coach's criticism of him. Despite the poor performance, they express confidence in the team's ability to bounce back. Hello and welcome to another edition of the Cardiff Central Podcast. In the hot seat as always is me, Harley, and I'm joined with Carwyn. How are you doing, Carwyn? Yeah, not too bad, thanks, mate. Busy week for me with the three pods, but yeah, this is the last of them, so hopefully I'm not dying out my back sometime next time, but yeah, not too bad. How are you doing? Oh yeah, thank you for stepping in to me on the wrap-up. I had a lovely birthday meal from my grandad, and you know, he's done so much for me. I felt, you know, if I can't skip on a pod, for him, who can I skip out on? So yeah. Yeah, I picked up my baby champagne for calling Twickenham Twickers. I feel that was more of a note to Matt's Voices famous line, rather than, yeah, I feel it was said in irony, but I just didn't say it well enough. You need to phrase it as, or it's more affectionately known, Twickenham. Or people should have it, HQ. Yeah, but yeah, and unfortunately didn't manage to get that bit in, so I've got my baby champagne, and yeah, my other apology for the week was I was a little bit strong on a certain kick from Cam Winner. I meant to say a lollip into midfield, rather than it was a dogshit kick, but yeah, it was a bit of a pull. A lollip into midfield is a much better way of phrasing it, I feel. Sure, I think if that's the only mistake he makes in his international debut, I think you can be allowed to say it was a bit dogshit. Yeah, yeah, that and yeah, he didn't make any other errors. He cried at the anthem, which is obviously a prerequisite of a Welsh player playing for Wales. You know, that seems to be, you have to be crying. If you're starting line-up in your debut, you have to be crying at the anthem, in some shape or form. The cameras are definitely going to try and spot it if you are, and he's had various interviews this week talking about him crying, which is obviously probably an interesting first week in international rugby. But yeah, I thought he was very good, so assured for a debut. I know Liam Williams has been full of praise of him as well this week, and yeah, fair play to Cam for stepping in and showing what he can do at the top level. Yeah, absolutely, and it's nice. I think it's nice for people like ourselves who've basically been saying, just chuck him in throughout the season, but with all the worry and the possibilities of putting Adams or Zanuck at 15. It's like, no, Cam's going to handle it, and he did. So yeah, probably with the game plan England are going to play tomorrow, or Saturday even, it's going to be, you know, he's probably going to be tested a little bit more, but I mean, seeing the sort of kicks and the pressure he gets put under at URC level, I don't think he's going to let anyone down. No, I'd back him. Obviously, you're up against, in my opinion, the best catcher of rugby ball in world rugby in Freddie Stewart, but, which is a weird thing to claim someone is, but I do think he is. He's the best in the high ball. But yeah, I think Cam's fine at the moment, playing really well. You say we, I must say last week, I did say that Josh Adams has started full-back, but that was mainly to try and get all three of them in the back three, because I am still of the opinion that Mason Greeney should be somewhere in that starting line-up, but yeah, we're where we are, and Cam obviously showed exactly why he's a specialist 15 and why he should be on the pitch. But yeah, before we go, as I said, before we go too far into the selections for the game on the weekend, let's, let's, let's talk a little bit about what is as cliched as possible. I feel like it's a far and bring the phone with us. So what was definitely a game of two halves in that we were completely absent in the first half and then the second half, it went mad. It went, it went, you know, you chip fill a team full of Cardiff players, you know, you're going to get a kind of stalled game. I think that's what we got. Yeah. I don't know exactly what to say about that first half performance. I think to me, my honest assessment of it was it was a side that looked like they were playing how they thought international rugby should be played. I don't know how else to explain it other than, you know, the San Cristobal kicking games that I, I've got a bone to pick with this throw the ball back 15 yards or so in the pocket to kick it up in the air because it's constantly calls offside for it because your forwards then automatically start bouncing before your level chaser, which is normally your winger has put them on side. And that, that is such an easy penalty to give away. That was, that was the first bit is the kicking game. A couple of really poor kicks from Gareth Davies, Kam, as we mentioned earlier, earlier in the first half, but then the line that was the other one, the, those two, you know, the lineup for Wales for the past, I want to say 20 years, but probably more since one man Wyatt probably has been, has been an inconsistent issue that Wales relies so much on the lineup for good attacking phase play and getting over the game line and it just wasn't working. And then you add on top of that, the lack of ball carriers in the backs where Josh Adams is your main ball carrier with six in the first half doing a job, which isn't really a Josh Adams job. I, it was a rest of a disaster that, that and a very good Scottish performance. Not that I should say they were very good in the first half with Finn pulling the strings, sweeper looser looking brilliant. And their back row was impressive in that first half. But yeah, from a Welsh perspective, it was, well, I think Gatman called it the worst or near enough, the worst first half performance he's had in as a coach. And it looked it to me as well. So I think that's a fair assessment, really. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the lineup, we can't, so we lost six lineups in total. I mean, it got a lot better in the second half. I don't know how much that was just Scotland stopped competing because they were down a man losing Richie Gray in the first half probably didn't help because, you know, he was, they were just throwing him up at the front and went, he's a big enough bastard. He'll catch it. And he did. I mean, we didn't help ourselves because even when there wasn't contested lineups, you'd see like lifts weren't quite getting there. I know Ryan O'Reilly's got a lot of slack, but to, but looking at it, you know, you could see Wainwright's just not getting up as high as he should be, or he's just that little bit too slow. It looked like there was an issue with the back lifter, which got a lot better in the second half with Aser Arti coming on and making that all year round. But, you know, it seems like, and everything seems a little bit too slow and you can extend that to the rest of the pitch. Even when it came to trying to execute a move, it was just a little bit too slow. By the time we were throwing the ball back to Castelli, yes, it was too deep, particularly at the speed we were playing. Like if you're whizzing that pass out before the defence is set, then you are probably going to get chance. But then the kicks were a bit too long, so it was easy. So by the time Dyer got to the catcher, it had already been passed to Russell who could dink it down. And, you know, and that led to that 50-22 where Josh Adams had a very rare moment of madness. I mean, to be honest, he's on one leg as well, which I imagine that's probably, you know, I bet somewhere in his mind there's a wrinkle and he's just pissed off, everything's going wrong. Well, there was that bizarre situation, I don't know how much you knew about it, but obviously in the media we knew about it a bit more. An hour before kick-off, there was set to be a team update from the WIA. There had been rumours all day about Tompkins and Josh Adams being out. And then there was set to be a team update an hour before kick-off. And then there wasn't an update, which meant that it was still the starting team. And you're just like, this is clearly, you know, what sort of shambles is going on there? That's not going to help things. And yeah, Josh's moment of downplay, I must be honest, it seems to be, I think I said it on the rap, that it was something that I don't remember seeing any of in his first 20, 30 caps. But he's starting to come into his game a bit. You look at that moment against Argentina, you look at the moment on the weekend, there are these stupid moments that he's having. And, you know, the question was asked, do you think that Gatlinger's right to call him out? I think he's spot on. I really do. I think there's only five players with more than 50 caps in the squad. Josh is one of them. I also think Josh is, Gatlinger knows Josh's character, but I would say Josh is one of those players who has that Mike Phillips mentality of, if you're going to call me out and criticise me through the week, I'm going to turn in an absolute peach of a performance next week to make up for it. And I can see Josh doing that this week. So yeah, without getting into selection and everything, but I think that's probably why he's had the nod as opposed to his performance. Yeah, I mean, I said, it's just another, it does remind me a bit of what happened with Liam Williams towards the middle of his career, where he started to just become, you know, it became more about the aggro and things, and then he started giving away penalties before like towards the end of the tour. But the majority of the time, he eased up his game and went back to what made him good. I do wonder if there's just an element of frustration about it, because he has, you know, he's been struggling for fitness, which means he hasn't been able to get the form he should do. And, you know, and if he's doing all that and your team's going backwards, he's on the rock, what would be the wrong wing for him? Because the problem is we seem to have all left wingers, but someone needs to be on the right. Yeah. And because I said, it's quite common, you know, it's no secret, Wales are better passing towards left. So, you know, when we go from right to left, which is the reason why, you know, George North and Cuthbert have depended on the 10 who've always suffered when they've been in the 14 and someone else in the 11, they don't look as impressive. And it's, I said, it's a bit frustrating. Again, he's been asked to do a game, which isn't naturally his game. I know he's really good at the sort of pick and go off the rope with his pace and pace, but as an actual first phase carrier, not, you know, that's, you know, it's two different things, like a dynamic pick of the ruck is one thing, but good to think, you know, I think it's a game where we really miss having a George North or a Mason Grady in the 13 channel, or even as much, I'm not a fan of them, Johnny Williams in the 12, is just having someone who can just take that, you know, and they tried doing things with giving it to both of them, but then the Scottish defence saw both of them in the, in the middle field. I went, well, that's who the ball's going to. It did cause problems. I think second half, it got a lot better. I think Azarathi started carrying really well. I thought Teddy Williams had a bee in his bonnet whilst he was on the pitch. He wanted the ball. Alex Mann, I thought was fantastic. Again, another player who I think has proven, you know, we're right. I mean, it's why I've been getting annoyed with all the nonsense. We've, we've going into something that's done about having David Jenkins at six or Teddy Williams at six. Stop. I'm going to say this now. And if anyone in the comments on the park wants to come and talk to us, and that's me, specifically me hardly now. Stop putting fucking second rows at six. Put a blindside flanker at six. It's what they're there for. For the love of fucking God, except that we have, you can have players on the bench from the wider squad who are good. Right. That's it. Sorry, I've been getting wound up by that all day. I know you have. I, yeah, I will come to selection here. Then I'll talk about what I thought might happen. But Alex Mann, I've been thinking in September, if not before, that he's a huge, hugely talented player and should be pushing for international honours. And I'm so glad he performed so well. His tackle on Hugh Jones has been hit a lot. But I thought his carrying in the wide areas was good. Also, his decision making in the wide areas was good as well. Whether to pass, when to hold on to the ball and when and where to do that. It looked like an assured performance from a player who knows exactly how to play international rugby as opposed to a debutant. And that's the biggest praise I can give. I thought he was absolutely superb. I will give a shout out to Elliot Dee as well, who was brilliant off the bench in the pack and fully deserving of all the praise he's had this week. Talking of his 47 caps and never letting wheels down, I think that's pretty much spot on. I couldn't think of a bad Elliot Dee performance. And then Tomas as well, obviously changed the game. But yeah, I just wanted to go back a little bit to line outs because one of the things that frustrated me was, there's been a lot of talk of this being a young and experienced Wales side, but some of the worst performers I thought on the weekend were the more experienced players in a way. Maybe they were trying to do too much. Gareth Davies, he had a poor game, let's be honest. Josh Adams obviously didn't have his best day. Then you're looking at Beard and Elias involved in that line out situation because, like I mentioned, there were issues with the lifters, but I was a bit surprised that Wales kept on throwing the ball to Wainwright at the back of the line or in the middle of the line. He was moving around a bit. You've got Beard and Jenkins, who are big lumps to be fair, to throw up in the air. I didn't really understand why they weren't being utilised. And it just seemed to be, in Wainwright we trust and stick with that, go for that. And that became easy for Scotland to mark him out towards the end. But yeah, that's probably the majority of the frustrations of the first half. The other thing I'd mention is my main bone of contention with Welsh team in the last four or five years is the lack of players able to turn the ball over. Because there were 29 players who could only see the momentum going in one way during that first half. And then there was one player who was doing his utmost to try and turn that momentum around that Tommy Raphael, because Wales don't have enough jackalers in sight. But that's another frustration I had for four or five years and doesn't seem to be changing. I mean, there is an issue with that because I think the jackal is becoming a lot harder of a thing to achieve because a referee's preference for the exception. But you know, it's something we talk about in this pod a lot. You know, there is definitely a swing because everyone's calling for this faster, more open game. The attacking side is getting away with a lot more than the defending side. So yeah, jackaling, you've got to be so shit hot on it. And I thought Tommy Raphael was fantastic. But for him to get these sort of turnovers, you do need a couple of people who can actually get players to ground quick, which again is where I think Alex Mann is coming into zone because he's, you know, his tackle selection is 98% of the time fantastic. Yeah, he said he was disappointed that he didn't get a full tackle on Hugh Jones, but knew that tackle would get him down. I will also say, if anyone's seen his quotes from this week, that is not good tackle technique. Because he said, I just thought I'll try and get my head in the way. And I just thought, oh, no, no, no, no, no, don't listen to that. No, no, that's not what we do. That's the reason why Lee Harpy has so many concussions. But the fact is, that's why I said 98% of the time, not the 2%. But yeah, you know, it is quite hard. I mean, we are missing having someone like a Nicky Smith in the side, who is good over the ball, who's now been called up to the squad with Leon Brown injured, but not out of the squad, because I think they're going to patch him up. You know, even if it's the last game, they can get him on for the last 20 seconds, just get that 25th cap and then you can bugger off or whatever. But yeah, we are missing it. But the problem is, we've tried it before, where we've tried to put lots of turnover threats and then it lacks elsewhere. Because as brilliant as Raphael is at turning the ball over, he's got a line-out option. So that, you know, in theory, that can suffer. So you've got to make sure you've got an extra line-out option there. He's not a ball carrier, which is something we're lacking already. And it's great when you've got someone like Jack Morgan, who pretty much does everything. And then you're looking at who our tackle threats are. Basically, what we need is Tina Sabir to become Welsh qualified as soon as humanly possible. So you've got a backline tackle threat. You know, Liam Williams is fantastic at it. They get on the ball. Josh Adams is more of a counter-rucker, really, than an over-the-ball turnover, but you still think, oh, and what happens? You know, he did get one of these classic rips, which is another way to turn the ball over, because, you know, it's not just Jack getting on the floor. Yeah, well, I mean, basically, because I think having good jacklers in the backs is really useful. Like France have used it fantastically as well, and South Africa use it as counter-ruckers, because that's where you're not expecting it. I think people say, you know, it doesn't always work against Rafael, but they can see it coming, and they've knocked him off the ball, and it's happened to Wales consistently. You know, other than Josh Levine, who I think is the only person who could actually take on a full eight-man pack and still keep the ball. You're almost always going to lose that battle. Yeah, for me, it's just the thing of, you need to have more players. It's not necessarily picking players that are jacking threats. I'm not saying we should pick two sevens. I'm not saying that at all. I've never been a huge fan of that since the days of Albertson Tipperick, really. I thought he was the wrong student at the World Cup against Argentina. But then, I just feel, as you mentioned, there needs to be a bit more saying to players, step up and put a jackal in. You can put a jackal in, because I've seen a couple from Tompkins and Sarri, not many, but you look at them out, Dante, Ficu, Pernod, and, speaking about Dupont, you know, Dupont does everything, but they all step up with the occasional turnover, that French backline. And then you look at the Irish pack, for instance, Porter, Sheehan, McCarthy would do it, Tyburn does it. Then you've got your O'Mahony, van der Vliet, Doris, all stepping up with the occasional turnover. And they just add up. I don't see the same thing in this Welsh side, where it seems to be, oh, you're the jackal, you're the seven. I'd like to see just a bit more open responsibility of, okay, if it's on, go for it. It's an opportunity, and putting blocks in place, clever blocks, obviously, and don't get penalised, but clever blocks in place to manufacture turnovers as well. Because it's such a momentum killer for the opposition, and it's something that seems to be happening to Wales a lot, but Wales aren't able to do to the opposition. I could write about that for days to come, but that's my main main gripe at the moment. So I'll put one counter on there, and then probably that's going to be one that won't be here forever. You do see it a lot with teams, particularly when it's a new team, new coaches. And remember, these guys, there's so many of the settings and exercises of this coaching team, and it's quite a brand new team. They do tend to only give one or two people the jackling. Because they're the ones who know what they're doing, and they know what the rest are doing, whilst everyone else is learning the system and getting used to getting over the ball. Because the worry is, if you say everyone get in, then you're just going to tick through penalties. It was an issue of sale a couple of seasons ago, where everyone was going in. So, what's his face? Mine, Jim, Jim for the mind. The coach, Alex Anderson, basically stripped it back and said, right, it's going to be Tom O'Bencury, which everyone's starting, and John Ross. They're going to be the only people who go over the ball. That got bedded in. All right, still some issues, because some of them were still getting all these stupid penalties. And then it's like, all right, our midfield can start going for it. And then they sort of built it, and then it was like, right, you can do it, you know. And as everyone got more used to the system and went one to make that decision, you know, so it's one of those, it should come, but give it time. I think, just in the selection, I think Elliot Bee's quite good over the ball, so that'll be quite, quite helpful. Yeah, it's fine when you've got players who are used to it and do that as part of their role normally at club, if they're not necessarily doing it then. But then, as I said, it's not just get your hands on the ball over the floor. You can do counter rucks and, you know, there is counter rucking to slow down the ball. There's holding them up in the tackle a little bit more. Yes, that runs the risk of a high tackle, but, you know, you've got to target the ball and get them on there. There's rips, there's, you know, which actually our midfield are quite good at generating, certainly with Tompkins and Watkin, they're very good at ripping the ball, which, okay, that can be, that can go two ways. Like, that can work out really well for you if you can get a clean rip, or if it goes loosely, then it can cause hell, but that's fine. So, yeah, I do get it. It is an issue. It does put some sense of pressure, but I think not as much as the pressure we put ourselves when things weren't executed right. Even if they were the wrong tactics, the way we executed them was terrible. What do you think about that second half? Do you buy that Gatlin said, go out and play, or do you think that was the player decision? Yeah, I think they did go out and say, go and play and go and enjoy. But my, I felt there was more intent at the start of the second half, and I think it all came from getting across the game line. I do think, and Brookbee is a simple game in that, getting across the game line is such a huge part, and it's the main part, and it's essential, essentially. And we might basically, single-handedly at times, step up and provided that go forward, be it from restarts, we were already getting 10 yards further forward from restarts than we had been. And I thought that added an increased element, why Scotland kept kicking to Wainwright when he was carrying so well, I will never know. But I thought Scotland performed poorly in the second half as well. I thought their discipline was just bloody horrendous. And maybe Wales got the rubber of the green with penalties, with the momentum of all of the other coming backsides, it's given them a bit, you've seen it in the URC year on year on year, this thing of maybe the underdogs getting the additional penalties in the second half when they're struggling and behind. But I thought Wales did, at the same time, put the opponents away in the driving ball, there were more smart things being done in the driving ball. We were up for one, Wales were actually taking the liners and making touch with kicks, so that helped. And then you've got the additional brilliance that was Thomas Williams. I thought Thomas Williams changed game with his speed, with his decision making. And also then on top of that, his accuracy, precision with the pass over to Rio de Janeiro. That is Thomas Williams to a T, in a game suited to him, it opened up. And then you partner him with Ioane Lloyd, who was able to do the same. Yeah, I still look up the comments basically about Thomas Williams even having his perfect game because he was able to play 9 and 10 simultaneously. And Ioane Lloyd was just sort of there more as an extra centre really. And I think a lot of the play was dictated by Thomas. And it's the sort of game that suits him best. If you keep it loose and frenetic, he's going to have a field day, particularly if we can be punching holes. I thought suddenly we haven't really given him enough praise for Domachowski from the 480. We can make all the things we can say about Kemsley Macias. But it's, yes, I mean, I thought he was going well up until about the 75th minute. I think by then he, you know, even no matter how chonky you think Macias has been, I think Domachowski was out on his arse. He gave everything. He was glowing, just wearing a gasket. And I think that's a really worrying sign for Kemsley, unless he's carrying a knock, that Gatton didn't trust him to play at all. I think it's a pretty worrying sign. And I know Nicky Smith's been in and out of fitness, but you can't tell me that Nicky Smith wouldn't have played. If he was fit, he'd have played 10 minutes at least at the end of that game because Gatton would trust him. But yeah, I don't know what that was all about. But on the clip side, Domachowski was brilliant. Ball carrying, you know, there was a clip of his late tackle, not late tackle, but a tackle late on in the game on Hugh Jones and the outside channels, which was brilliant. And yeah, I thought altogether, on a selfish level at this point, the Cardiff quiz really did step up and perform well. I couldn't say that any one of them, and I don't think this is biased, bar Josh, maybe with his moment of, well, dumb that Gatton called it. I don't think any of them did themselves a disservice at all. But even in spite of that, if you look at his stats, like the actual meter that he's been carrying and things like that, considering the job he was being asked to carry, he did right. Weirdly, he made no tackles, according to the stats page on the SPN scroll, which I can't, I don't think is right. And I don't, and I feel like, but he didn't miss any. So it's like he didn't need to make any tackles. I don't know if that's because when Doohan did get the ball, it was in broken field in the middle of Scotland, just wouldn't go in that way. I'm thinking about it now. Most of the attacking play came down Wales' left with Rio, and then they switch and make the break through midfield. So I can't think of when Josh would have had an opportunity to make a tackle. I think he did. I think he did everything that was asked of him. And like, when on occasions, when it went out, the kicks went to the right for cross kicks, they were just nowhere near him to chase. In fact, they were, you know, probably more Watkin or Tompkins ball. But then that's just going back to how inaccurate I think we were. Hugh Griffin made a point, you know, he actually went and looked at basically where Costello was stood on all of these cross field bomb things. They were basically within inches of each other, which says to me, you know, that was the plan. That's what they set up. My worry is they set up something that works well in training, because you can do things very, very quickly. But I know from being the tackle bag holder on training runs, and because you're not going, you don't, when you're defending with the tackle bag, you can't put full speed in because you end up doing like eight minute sets just holding this bloody bag. And, you know, and you're usually half number, so you've got to be passive to just get round. So you're more a target for the attack to hit. And it was, you know, and you can be that bit deeper, you can do these things, because you've got more time. And I do wonder if that's part of the, that was part of the issue, is they sort of said all this was in training, but actually what you really need to be is, that ball needs to be whipped out from the rack as soon as it can, poofed, and it needs to be enough time for your chasers to get there. But, which obviously they have to stand that for a bit further back, because Castello's that bit further back, takes even longer to get there, and then the opposition have more time to set up their blockers and stuff. It's, you know, I understand kicking game, I've got an issue with a kicking game, because, you know, if you're not going to go forward, which Wales weren't, crossing the game now, which Wales weren't, you're going to need to kick to gain territory. But there's one little second phase of a line-up. And I was just like, oh, hold on a sec, I've seen this pitch before, and this was against Georgia at home. That's what it reminds me of, and that's not exactly a great comparison. But yeah, maybe, yeah, I think I could spend all day talking about the frustrations of the first half, and then you forget how great the performance was in the second half, and how, you know, there's been a lot made of pride for a young team, and all this sort of thing. But I think there are a number of players showing pride, you know, we've mentioned Elliot Dean, we've mentioned Thomas Williams, pride from players with a lot of experience thinking, hold on a sec, we've got 22 years of history at this game, let's not throw it away in the manner that we are. So yeah, I thought second half, they were brilliant in short, but Scotland certainly were in massive reverse, and happiness out of it. But I think, I came out of that game thinking Wales should have won it, and maybe that is slightly rose-tinted, but there's a certain incident 74 minutes in, and you can't tell me that's not a seatbelt tackle, I struggle to think it's not. On Tommy, I've only seen one angle, and I am seeing it through rose-tinted glasses, but that could have been the ball game. In short, if Joanne's got her kicking boots on, which she seemed to be, to be fair, after missing the first one. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, when you look at all his kicks, so Hugh put it up on PoetRugby.com, showing what expected kicking, and like I was saying, other than the kick for Wainwright, the conversion for Wainwright's drive, which was obviously right in front of the post, he absolutely gave it. They were all about 40% success rates, in terms of success, so you figure it, but yeah, if you've got it, then you're like, ooh, 28-27 final minute. Would Wales have played that a bit differently? Would Scotland have stepped up a bit sooner? Because, you know, by the time that fourth throw goes in, then they'll probably shit themselves. Because, you know, that fourth throw first was a two-score, made it from a two-score to a one-score game. That one's made foot's in the mead. So, it's that moment, isn't it? I think that's why that high tackle was so important, that no-call, because that was still Welsh momentum. And then, to be fair, Scotland did do well to close out the game in the way they did in the last five minutes, but that was, I still think that was the ball game. But, you know, there were so many other instances we could mention. We could mention the Luke Crosby hit on Sam Pasello, which I thought was the correct decision by Ben O'Keefe, and also the Dalmachowski hit on Luke Crosby, which, again, I thought was the right decision by Ben O'Keefe. So, you know, you... Obviously, with Dalmachowski, there's the whole thing with the first couple of minutes, he goes down injured. Basically, he just gets his head in the wrong place on the tackle. Yeah, he's got, was it Drew Ritchie's hip? Yeah, something like that, head on hip. So, obviously, a lot of people are saying he shouldn't have been playing, he should have been off 30-20. I've heard that from, I mean, the person I heard that from, I think, is more because he wanted his boy to be on the pitch. But, I mean, we've got independent doctors and we've got team doctors. You know, if they're not calling it, then I think we've just got to accept, not every time you hit your head is going to be a concussion. No. We should be hearing on the side of caution a lot more, admittedly. But I feel like if this is the way these guys, you know, they're the ones with the data, you know, I think now they've got the impact mouthguards as well. I don't know how effective I have looked at the actual research itself. And that's the sort of shit I do look at. But at the same time, I feel like it's something that, I almost feel we've gotten to a point now as a society, actually, which this is going to be a huge tangent, so please, you know, just skip forward 20 seconds. But we're starting to lose faith and trust in scientists and medical professionals. And it's like, you know, through the whole pandemic, it's like, look, this is their job. They know what they're doing. Let's just trust them for now. If it turns out they're wrong, then fine. But I certainly don't know any better. And it's all well and good. Some other members of this podcast said, oh, no, it's my rule, so we should definitely do it. No, you don't know what's going on in there. You actually thought a scrum cap was actually for concussions, which they're absolutely not. They're for protecting cats on your face. But it's just, you know, I could go rant and babble on for ages. But I'll offer my two cents on this, which is I've got mixed views on the impact podcast, but that's for another time. But the Thomas Housley thing, I was working on the game and commentary said, you know, it's been down for a long time. I was surprised it didn't go up for HIA. I'll say that first and foremost. The second thing you say about the trust in the independent doctors. Well, I've got to be honest, my trust is a little bit. I'm not wholly there with the system and I'm not blaming individual doctors that are on the pitch. I'm just saying the system I don't think is yet right at all, because I still remember that Thomas Francis incident for what was it, two years ago? That was bloody shocking. There's no way that he should have continued. Was it two or three years ago? I can't remember if it was the home game or was the away game. But anyway, that was a horrendous incident. He should never have continued. There have been various incidents, Jeremy Loughlin, et cetera, since that have been poor. And then you flip it to the other side and the way it is, I want to tactile words here, but the way the HIA rules are utilised, I'll use that word, by certain teams of a certain nationality typically, is rather frustrating. And I do look at it and I say, well, hold on a second. How can these two things be working concurrently and successfully? And that's my frustration with it. On this individual instance, he's clearly been past fit to play this week. There didn't seem to be any lasting effects, judging from his performance for the remaining 60 minutes or whenever it was. So I would say it seems like the correct decision was made by one, the physio who's on the pitch and two, the independent doctor off the pitch. But as you said, I think it is so important to err on the side of caution because these are players' lives. And that's why I wish Sam Costello was playing because he's an absolutely brilliant player. But on the flip side of that, I am so glad he's not appearing this week. I saw talk of him seeing a specialist. But once he's had the HIA impact a couple of weeks ago, he had the HIA and failed both against Scotland as well. There's no way he should be playing this weekend. I'm so glad to see him outside the 23, even though I think he's where the Premier fly half at this stage. Well, on that, it's a bit of an interruption because he's turned around and said it wasn't the HIA. He's got a neurological issue in his neck, which someone was telling me, oh, that makes it work, you know, that they're just trying to get it so that you can play. Well, actually, no, because a neurological neck issue is what took Sam Warburton out of the game and Josh Navidi out of the game. And it's taken a couple of other, like, it's typically an open side injury. It's basically from having your head bashed in in rucks. Well, it's from, it was on the back of the cross at the incident, wasn't it? Which is, which you can understand. Yeah, because he's gone over because trying to jaffle is bad for you. You know, I can see why, you know, things like that. It does make you see why people like progressive rugby are thinking maybe we should ban the jaffle. Which actually, I think, you know, I'm not fully on board with, but I fully, I get the point of view. I get the point. I'm a big fan of a lot of things progressive rugby do. But I absolutely adore the jaffle area. So it would be something I'd be really resistant to leave the game. But yeah, safety has to come first. That's the main thing. Yeah, I think we're on the exact same point of view there. Anything else you want to say about the game this week? Last weekend, even? No, other than I feel Owen Watkins had a little bit of bashing that he didn't deserve. That was the only other thing I thought. The only thing I thought he could have done was carry the ball a bit more. But defensively, I don't think he was as poor as people that's made it out. Even though, you know, the tackle missed on Cairo, I thought was a pretty clever piece of play by Scotland. Five, 10 years ago, that would have been awful. But yeah, that's the only thing I don't want to do. Now, I think, I think the problem is, I don't think you could have put anyone in. You could put pretty much anyone in for that game and it wouldn't have looked like they'd done much because the ball just doesn't get in there. No. Because when, because if you look, Tompkins got a lot of passes, but that was more because he was coming in at first receive. Which is something that Wales have been doing in their shape to get the 10 bits over wide. And then the ball was, you know, and then the ball was the winger. So I don't think he could have done much more to impose himself on the game. I'm not going to team selections, but yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so we'll go from the up and down users, whatever was that game against Scotland, and we'll go to the sad news that broke a couple of days ago, which is the loss of Barry John. So, you know, the King has, the King has, he's affectionately known. You know, I, you know, a fixture of Cardiff for years, a fixture of Wales, you know, and, you know, until the end, really, you know, you could find him in the old arcade, thinking he's Carlin. Both of us are too young to have experienced it, like, you know, you know, basically, you know, I was, I was alive during the 90s and Wales being a bit meh. And then I came in and I didn't start following rugby properly until about the 2005 Grand Slam, and I'm, you know, glory sport to me. But all people I knew, everyone I knew growing up, it was always about Barry John. I mean, I don't know what you're, I know you, you perhaps have discussed it on the, on the rap anyway, but, you know, but one thing I do find, like, it's always, never gets played, picked up as much, because everyone always talks about how he glided on the ball and stuff. It's just how wonderful a game tactician and game manager he was, and how good his kicking game was. You know, for me, I reckon, if you, if Barry John came through now, he would be an Elite 10. Like, if you put into modern conditions, he would be an Elite 10, because he had the brain for it. You know, he had the brain, the skill, you know, he's that perfect fusion of the tactician Dan Biggar, and, you know, just the absolute X-Factor box office of Jared. You know, it's that, that wonderful, like, absolutely everything you could want in the Elite 10. Yeah, I agree. So, some people have questioned his tackling. I remember someone telling me a story that apparently he used to, he was told to just jump on people's backs. But I don't know if that was completely true. I've seen, you know, recently, I think I had Gareth Edwards, Sir Gareth Edwards, talking about how he was tough as all nails and carried on playing after a broken nose, I think it was, in one game. And the amount of stories, and, you know, we are younger generation, we are talking about stories, because we didn't have the privilege of watching him play. For anyone that does want to watch him play, I should also add, I think SFC are playing a, playing a charity game that Barry John played in, I think it was his last ever game, his 15 against the Karen Jones 15. So if ever, Karen James 15, always made that mistake. Karen James 15 versus Barry John 15. If anyone wants to watch it, I think that's on Wednesday night, so tonight as we're recording this pod at some stage. But from the stories, you know, you throw it, I'll catch it from being Nick Nick being the king by New Zealand, from New Zealand, then taking what the lion's style of play and adopting it as their own for the next 50 years to dominate, which is both a blessing and a curse. But I think there's so many things about it, people talk about in terms of rock stars talk about George Best, and, you know, the clips of them two passing the football together, and he was apparently a talented footballer as well. But for me, when I think of Barry John, it's as simple as thinking of those tries, those try clips, especially the try against England, that one where no one can lay a glove on him. And there's another one for, I think it's a Wales Selectors 15, isn't it, where he glides past people as if they're not there. There's games for Cardiff where he stops for drop goals and to win a game. And there's that two sides to a fine arts game, which he seems to master, as you correctly said, and it's really sad to see that he's gone, him on the heels of JPR, on the heels of Clive Rowlands and Danny Philbennett. But, you know, we are talking about some of the best players that have played of all time. And that's, you know, whether you're Cardiff fan or whether you're a Waikato or Chiefs fan, you're going to think that Barry John was one of the best players that have ever lived. And that is a glowing sentiment, as you can see. Yeah, absolutely. I don't want to dwell on this too much, but yeah, because there is a lot of the stuff and James has asked me very nicely if we can get off early so that he can actually start doing the Ospreys pod. So just a quick thing. So the under-20s won. They beat Scotland. Very good game. So, yeah, Bowen's a great victory if I remember rightly. I thought Lucas de la Rua looked, both him and Morgan Walsh showed how important getting these under-20s to have some senior rugby is being shown because they looked a class above pretty much anyone else on the pitch. You know, Morgan Walsh had another one who was, you know, just cutting through the fences and just bastard. The try is outrageous. It's just outrageous. It's world class. But also, I would give a nod to Louis Hennessey, who I thought was brilliant. That offload, where I wonder if he did jump into the tackle, but I've given it to him because bloody hell how he's got that offload off when he's 45 degree angle to the floor is brilliant. The set up, the try for, I can't remember which try that was to set that for, but yeah, brilliant, especially setting up forwards for Wimbledon's under-20s because they got done last year against Scotland. So for a number of those guys to come back and perform as well as they did and a number of new players such as Harry Wyles, I thought he, you know, from a Cardiff element, he's looked, I can understand why coaches are so excited about him. There were moments where he flitted in and out of the game. I think that's fair to say and there's definitely things to improve on, but he's got a real knack of taking the ball to the line. He looks like an aggressive 10 in that aspect, but also I thought defensively looked really solid, which is another prerequisite of the modern game. Yeah, I think then, you know, he hasn't had, although he's had some time for the Rags, he's not had a lot because, you know, Al Warburton's been doing the job for the last few weeks. So, you know, he looks like a player with a lot of talent who needs to get some rough edges polished off. That's good. I mean, how many times have we heard the story, though, that game's in the balance and then Ford comes off the bench to sort it all out. So, you know, I thought Harry Ford did excellent as well. I mean, I thought most of the pack were pretty good. They did what they needed to be done. Harry Ackerman, I thought captained really well and I thought he made a lot of good dents. You know, that could be, that Ackerman-Hennessy partnership, I'd like to see that at a club level. But, you know, whichever team manages to get hold of both of them, that I think would be great to see develop over time because they look, they both look incredibly physical but can pass, which is just one of those things that just causes you, you know, if you look at, you know, a sort of Henshaw, you know, Aki Henshaw or McCloskey and Henshaw or Aki, you know, you know, the two, the Hugh Pilotto, you know, they're very strong, powerful runners but can also play a bit and it just causes so many more problems. So, you know, you do see them kick on. It seems almost like Wales have done a complete 180 on the way the players start performing because if we're talking 10 years ago, there were very few second rows and very few centres and all of a sudden, it's loads of second rows and loads of quality centres because you think of last year, it was Eddie James in that then, the partnership, who was brilliant. And you've also got Grady there before, you've got Hawkins as well, so it's... Jim Roberts as well, I mean... Yeah, it's becoming a real, real strength for Wales going forward. Yeah, absolutely. I said, this is our way of time to just want to quickly go over the team for England and do some predictions. Yeah. See what questions there are. I mean, it does tie into some of the questions we got, so I've lost who asked me the question. There we go. That's it. Sorry, yeah. Andrew Buchheide, I'm sorry if I've got the pronunciation wrong. So he messaged on Facebook, so, you know, actually people do use it, which is surprising. He asked, you know, how harsh is it for Teddy Williams to be dropped? So he has such a huge impact off the bench, but at the same time, this is where I was saying we've got quality, you know, we've got four, or whatever it's a decent international quality second rows in that slot. And we're picking three of them. And you're not going to drop David Jenkins. One, he's very good. Two, he's captain. Adam Beard is easily our best line operator. Yes, it went to shit in the first half. But then, you know, he's a key part in those more tries. And then Will Rowland is just some, you know, he just has so much physicality and grunts that you almost, you know, whilst he's fit and able to play, you've got to make the most out of him, haven't you? Yeah, well, I start with Rowland, but that's by the by. I think he's in such good form. He's absolutely brilliant for arousing against Cardiff. But the situation with Teddy is simple. You've got three players there who, let's be honest, what, three years ago, Adam Beard was being touted as a line starter for this upcoming tour to Australia. And Dav Jenkins is now captain in his country. And Will Rowland has been Wales' best player, arguably, along with Jack Morgan for the last three years. So it's difficult to see where he slots in. I thought the only possibility I saw was something that will rile you up, but if one of them was playing six, if it's Dav Jenkins or Teddy was playing six, I'm not saying I'm not pro that, but that was the way I saw you getting all four in the squad. And, you know, yeah, exactly. Or a 6-2 situation. And with someone like Basham, who I think it's fair to say hasn't had his best form, it's not great. But simply put, Teddy doesn't cover the whole back row. And he hasn't played any back row this season, so how can you put him on the bench to cover a back row if you're not going for a 6-2 split? That's just the reality of the situation. Think about the situation if James Fender was fit, and the form he's been showing this season. If James Fender wasn't in either 23 for the first two games, how harsh that would be for him. But it would just be a reality of the situation where Wales currently have three outstanding second rows. Well, Dav Jenkins is also an up-and-coming second row, but two other up-and-coming second rows who are going to be brilliant. So it's just the reality of the situation, sadly. So then the other big changes. So Gareth Thomas and George North come straight into the side after the sort of fitness issues. I think it's a bit harsh on Damachowski, but also Gareth Thomas is, you know, most, because none of us thought he was, didn't realise he was injured, we all thought Gareth Thomas was starting last week anyway. This is how we see it, you know. As much as I love Damachowski, Gareth Thomas has, you know, he has the resume to show I am our number one receptor. And I've got no issues with it. I said it's a bit hard for me, but it's not like Damachowski's been dropped. George North, certainly, you know, him and Tompkins are our main partnership. They're the ones who've had the most time together. And, you know, that sees Watkin drop out of the 23 completely, which again is harsh, but then are you going to take Grady off? Because I think he does have the potential to be such a good impact player, and covering 13 and Wyn. Don't give him that extra bonus. Wyn's got to be in the 23, so as harsh as it is with Watkin, as I mentioned earlier on, that's, again, a reality of the situation. You've got to strengthen incentives, which is where we are. And then the other changes, you know, Elliot Dee coming in for Elias, I think that's fair. I think Azerafi coming in, Brown's obviously taken a knock, so he'd come in to start, which I personally thought he should have started last week, and I don't mean that disparagingly, I just mean that on the evidence of how much rugby the three factors have played this season, Azerafi has played so much rugby compared to the other two, probably more, almost as much, if not more, than the other two combined. Yeah, so I don't really see how you don't start him. And then Alex Mann obviously in for the injured Jim Botham, which if no one's caught the news, obviously Jim sadly picked up an injury in the game against Scotland, and he's out for the rest of the tournament, has that been confirmed? Just to double check. He's been released from the squad, and they've called it Seb Davies, and Seb Davies is the reason why I'm getting so pissed off with him trying to put second row's at six, because he got fucked about with so much, he basically just sort of stalled him as a player, like, you know, he has the potential to become an absolutely wonderful loose headlock, you know, line-at-caller, dynamic, wonderful hand. I would like him to, you know, he's started to temper his aggression now into the right way. I'd like him to be a little bit more aggressive in contact and in tackle, which he's getting there, but, you know, I felt he got dicked around with so much, it's just like, can we just let second rows develop? Like, we've, you know, as you alluded to, we've been struggling for second rows for so long, particularly this hard-nosed, you know, the hard-nosed one, you know, we produce wonderful athletic locks, but trying to find ones who will just get through shit's underground work, it's been something that, you know, it's great that Teddy Williams and James Fender have come through at once, Reece Davis, I think, as well. It's that Bradley Davis, Jake Baumold, as well. But then it's nice that Teddy Williams also has wonderful, skillful hands, and, you know, is actually a decent line-out option in his own right. That's my point. Then, so, then the other things I'll see, Yohan Lloyd and Thomas Williams start, so Castello's out, so Kai Evans comes onto the bench, but weirdly, Gareth Davis has been dropped entirely for Kieran Hardy. Now, the thing, my issue with this is, actually, for me, Hardy and Kai Evans, say it is as a halfback pairing, because I feel like, when it's age 50, he's going to play the full 80 at fullback. They are very similar players in that they are very kick, kick, kick, but there's not an inspiring choice. Well, I'm not quite, I get a little bit where this Hardy is a kicking nine has come into play, but I think that comes slightly on the back of that South Africa tour, where Hardy was picked by Pivac, wasn't he, as first-choice nine for the kicking game, because it was felt that his kicking game was superior to the other two nines. Personally, I think the nine with the best kicking game we've seen this season has been Reuben Morgan-Williams, along with Alex Babin, actually. I would give his kicking game a mention, because it has been brilliant this season, but Hardy, to me, is not solely a kicking nine, but my main issue with him and Gareth is they are both so out of form, and they have been for weeks for the Scarlets, and it's not, you know, Leon, the Scarlets bot, mentioned that Gareth Davies had a couple of good performances this year, but they just happened to be against Scarlet in their two wins, but there have been other games that I've seen, especially against the Ospreys, where Gareth Davies has had a particularly bad game. I find it difficult to see why Gareth has been dropped completely. Yes, he had a terrible first 40, and maybe he'd been protected from a little bit, or penalised for it, but I thought, I think I'd like to see his experience on the bench, is probably my main feeling on that one, because I think he's performed so well in the World Cup that he's not a rubbish player overnight, it's just a player out of form. And as I said, like, no one particularly stood out, you know, no one really covered themselves in goal in that first quarter. He may be the victim of the game plan, but you know, Thomas Williams came on, and we've had it before when we've had Gareth Davies and Thomas Williams topping Tame Jim, even when Hardy's still in the mix. Whoever comes off the bench always looks better. It's just what happens, and you get it with the 10s as well. But I do think, you know, even Hardy is out, out of the three scrum hearts in the squad, he is the best kicker, the best box kicker, anyway. I'd argue some of Thomas' attacking kicks are better than some of the 10s in the squad. They're particularly dinky on the side of Alec. Don't start that. I'm not calling for your love of Thomas the 10 engine. All I'm saying is, like, it depends what kind of kicks, but for the classic scrum half-kicking, Hardy is the best. He's, you know, he's the most consistent with hang time and distance, which makes it a lot easier for your chase. But I said, I think because you've got him and Kai Evans on the bench, it does suggest that they're planning to slow the game down. But then, you look and you've got, you've got Tame Basham as your back row cover, and Mason Grady as your outside back cover. And you're like, well, they're players who are there to speed things up. And, you know, if you put Watkin in the 23, and maybe another big, you know, maybe then you go for, and you do do the thing I hate with someone like Teddy Williams in the 20 jersey. That to me then says, yeah, we're basically going to go as fast as we can against England, and then we're going to try and slow and control the game afterwards. But then at the same time, it's also who else do you pick? I genuinely think that's the situation. I don't, I don't think there's, that sounds quite harsh, but the main thing I would say is you've got a ready-made situation where you bring Adam Beard onto the bench and put Rowlands into your starting line-up if you want to slow the game down in the final 20 and have control and have experience and have line-out operator and have more defence and all that jazz. That's your go-to. But there isn't that. So I just think it's a situation of these are the players that are fit, available, especially, and I don't mean that as disparagingly as it sounds. In the case of Kai, he's in the squad. Gatland really wants him to be in the squad and has had him in the squad in the last, well, two or three now because of the barbell scheme as well. But he is a by-product of Sam Costello being injured and I don't think anything much more. Sam Costello's fit, Sam Costello's stats, he only likes on the bench. I agree with you there. I mean, one positive with Kai Evans is, you know, if he's got penalties in that sort of 40, 50 metre range and we just need to reel it in, you're giving it to him because you can criticise many aspects of his game, but he is a phenomenal goal kicker. That's why he's been called a lovely half-penny comparison. Yeah. But I mean, to be honest, if you're that worried about goal kicking, just give it to Thomas. He did well enough against Conor, which, you know, is the game coming up, isn't it? Just previewing a game in two weeks' time. I am not even going to go down there. Because I feel like you'll have to. I'm not saying Thomas at 10, I'm saying Thomas is a goal kicker. There's nothing wrong with your 9 being a goal kicker. Do you know what, right? I mean, Canada women have their 8 as a goal kicker because she's phenomenal. I mean, she's Sophie D'Cosio's mind, so she can do what she wants. Yeah, that's completely different. Sophie D'Cosio's on a completely different level. Adam's like, just a totalitarian in rugby and she just does it all. Like, the song is just... She's the true definition of a dynasty player. Yeah. Yeah, well, that too. But, you know, the songs that she does what she wants is dedicated to Sophie D'Cosio, or should be, because, yeah. I don't know how we've just gone Sophie D'Cosio, but I'm glad we have, because how brilliant she is. I'll tell you one thing, because if you've got an opportunity to talk about how good Sophie D'Cosio is, you talk about how good Sophie D'Cosio is, because she's that fucking good. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a pack full of all England, the world's internationals, and who's everyone talking about at the moment? Oh, yeah. So, I think... So, how do you think the game's going to go? I can't imagine Balfour doing too many changes to the team that beat Italy, and I imagine his game plan's going to be pretty much the same. Aggressive defence, strong set-piece, and he's just going to try and smother Wales. So, the question is now, how do we get around that? Um, it's a difficult one, isn't it? Because, yeah, the game plan is quite simple. It could be adapted slightly if Marcus is fit. I don't think he probably is. Genge is going to have another quality to the 23 if he starts, or if he's on the bench. Lucy said, obviously, he's a ball-carrying machine and is brilliant at everything, bar his mumbling on a certain recent documentary, but he's... I think he came out quite well in that documentary, thank you. I like the two Welsh representatives. He's the only one who was supportive of the strike. He does come across well, he just mumbles. That's my main issue. It's a broadcasting issue, as opposed to a human being issue. I think he comes across as a good human being. It's not mumbling, it's called Bristol. My mum would say he mumbles. But the separate thing is, I think, I looked at that England performance, I thought Etoshi looked good. And when Etoshi's good, that's a bad time for everyone else, because they do depend on him heavily for just creating absolute havoc and being a nuisance and a half. Ethan Root's playing well, that's surprising to someone who didn't play well who didn't quite see that potential in him, I must be honest, a year and a half ago. And then you've got Ender Hill and Ben Earl. Ben Earl's a brilliant player, but I don't think the rest of that back row is anything to fear for the Welsh back row. And I think if Tommy Raffael can get those turnovers in, I think that is going to be huge. It's whether Raffael can get those turnovers that can stop England's momentum at source in the pack. That is going to be a huge benefit for Wales. And that's one of the things and then hope on a bit of England's indiscipline. But the simple point is, if Wales are as inaccurate and as ill-disciplined as they were in the first 40 against Scotland, there's only one winner. And they just can't afford to start as slowly as they did. There's not much else to say really. I think, yeah, I think you're absolutely right there. I think as well, if we were worried about what? If we were worried about the line-outs against Scotland, having a Thoje and Chesham, and I think Earl as well has been known to be thrown up there as well, that's going to be a problem. They're probably going to get a lot more attacking in the scrum, which I know the Scottish front row is quite attacking England, but they also hold back when they think they're going to get pingers. I think the English will push and look out for it. Which does bring on, so the one person on the bench who didn't really mention is Archie Griffin, who will be the third new cap should he come onto the field. So, you know, congratulations to him. I've not seen a lot of him, but he is highly mated at Bath. So it'll be interesting to see how he goes. Apparently he's a lump and that's quite useful. He must have learned a few things from his time at Bath with the two that are ahead of him. Yes, one happens to start for England, which is never quite what you want to see. But I think, I think the, I think it's a good sign. I think it's a good sign for him for his future that he's having those two. It's, is it Wilco Lowe? Who's at Bath? Bath, so he'll be behind Will Stewart and it's Thomas Dettoy usually at the top. Thomas Dettoy, I always miss Dettoy and Wilco Lowe, which is... Wilco Lowe is currently playing for the Bulls, because if you remember a few months ago, I basically declared my dying love for Wilco Lowe. We've discussed it plenty of times. I don't know why we do, but yeah, Dettoy and... I thought I'd get to mention it, but yeah, Dettoy and Wilco Lowe are at Bath here to learn off. And going up against in training with the likes of Benny O'Connor, probably Thomas Dettoy as well, because he does play both sides equally well. Yeah. And who's the other, who's the other one? Schoeman. No, there's another Schoeman. I'm pretty sure there's a Schoeman at Bath and now I've said it, I want to back myself up. So I'm going to, I'm going to... Yeah, so I suppose you've read that, but yeah, so I feel like, yes, he's only third choice, but having a team like that, being third choice still says you're pretty decent. You're just not as good as the headlining players. So, you know, good for him. He's, you know, going to have a big job coming off the bench as the full starting pack are going to be, because let's just say England are going to want to put a marker down. It doesn't matter what Vortex says about them trying to play, everything we've seen suggests they still want to dominate and they still want to be kicking well. So I think Cam Wynn is going to get much to do in the test, as are Dyer and Adams, I think with our own kicking game, because we are going to have to kick. We've got to find ways of making ways of making Stewart think we're kicking it in a different place than we are, or we're going to have to change how we kick. It can't be the crossfield box. You know, I think it's going to have to be dinks over the top of this. You know, they're going for an ultra aggressive, with Felix Jones, the ex-springboard coach, they're going for extra aggressiveness because they want to take out the decision makers early. So we either be incredibly accurate at getting our passing game and standing deep and getting around them, or we're going to have to try and slow that line speed by getting behind them. And yeah, they don't really follow suit because not many teams do have the nine sweeper anymore. They have much more of a Gareth Davies shootout, or Thomas Williams who acts as a third centre and almost organises and acts, you know, to add physicality. So I think that's where it's going to go. A lot of people say we should play like we did in the same half against Scotland. I'm not sure, like, just throwing it with reckless abandon is going to work, certainly not for the first 60. So I think, you know, we do have to be not necessarily timid, but pragmatic. You know, go when it's on, but don't just go throwing a ball, going coast to coast willy nilly and going backwards. I mean, my main issue with that is I don't think we've got the players to be pragmatic. I think I do agree because we don't really have a control. I would say if none of our backline are a tactical kicker. Yeah, if we all go toe to toe in a pragmatic game against that England side with George Ford at 10 and Freddie Stewart at 15, they lose. I don't see any way that you win the kicking battle as a straight up kicking battle. I don't see that they get forward enough for dominance. I think they could get parity. I don't see forward dominance in spades. And then possibly George and Tompkins could do some stuff in the centre, but I wouldn't be, like, wouldn't pin yourself on that. So I'm going, I think the kicking game is important, but I think it's the way they kick and they have to find ways of manipulating Stewart for one, ways of, you know, isolating Freeman as another one, because he is still young in the international scene. Likewise, Dingwall if he plays to isolate him as well, but chips over the top are going to be crucial. David usually has absolute dick fingers when it comes to high balls, which is really weird. Like, he should be so much better under them than he is. Just put in one on one against Josh Adams. It works once, it'll work again. That's all he needs. It'll work every time. It's worked multiple times. Just get Josh Adams to cross kick on a tap penalty and, you know, we'll get a try that way. You basically get what I'm saying when I was trying to say be pragmatic, is I don't mean pragmatic by getting into a kicking drill, because that's not pragmatism, that's stupid. What I'm saying by being pragmatic is don't just pass the ball, but that's what I'm saying, you know, the kicks over the top or just doing, you know, neat little grubbers. It's doing things that you know their defence isn't going to be set up to do. That's what I'm saying being pragmatic, is, you know, playing percentages. Like, a kick over the top actually is becoming a much higher percentage play because of how everyone defends. Whereas actually with our personnel, the classic box kick probably is a very low percentage play for us because we just don't have the personnel for the chase and the tackle. Or simply put, if you're going to kick the ball to throw it to a grubber, there's no point putting it in the air. That sounds a bit stupid, but it might cause a bit of, if it rains, it'll cause a bit of chaos. And that's, just find different ways to target him that is out of the ordinary. And yeah, I would say there was one caveat, but that was a select, but we've got the wrong selection for it. If we have Mason Grady on the wing, this is where I will concede, then kick high balls to him all day because I'd backed Mason Grady over Freddie Stewart. They're the same height, Grady actually has pace. That's where I'm drawing it. And some of the high balls he's taken for Cardiff, I reckon, I reckon at least becomes a 50-50 again, as opposed to, I think most people going up against Shooters are 90-10 at best. I'm going to disagree because I think Freddie Stewart is the best catcher of rugby ball there's ever been, but that's a side note. Yeah, but I mean, I don't think the best has ever been. We're going to start... The best claim now. Yeah, the best claim now, certainly. But we're going to start disagreeing right at the end of the pod where we've agreed for most things. And the second thing we're going to disagree on is when Schoomans has played the bat. So there we go. Yeah, I don't believe... I think that's an NFT, that's not a real player. This is the season last few months. Yeah, I think time is running short, so I'm going to quickly push you for prediction. I believe you said England by six on the wraps. Do you want to stick to it? No, I said England by three. I'm going to stick to it. I don't want to. I think Wales can win, but I favour England. Well, we're back to harmony on the pod because I'd say England by about three as well. There we go. Yeah, sorry for everything Cardiff rugby. We didn't have time for your question. What we might do is we might stick it up as a... We might retweet it and put it as a poll. So he's asking about which players from other Six Nations squads would you say can play for Cardiff? Um, very quickly off the top of my head. I'd go Tug Burn. I would have WP now. Uh, Italy. I would love Ruzza. Just because ball is gonna ball. France. Weird one. I would love Gabi and Villiers. I know it's me going for the Cardiff position of Tarty backs, but I just love Gabi and Villiers. And we're talking about backline, backline jackal threats. Yeah, England. Nah, don't want any of them to be honest. I'd take Ollie Lawrence and Heartbeat. I'm sorry, but I would take Ollie Lawrence. I'll be honest. Out of all of them, George Ford for me. Sorry, don't mean it. Who needs George Ford? We've got Tinus. Tinus and Sheedy. Right, so, um, I think I said Sheedy. I've said Sheedy. Heidi to be fair does worse, but let's move on. Let's move on quickly, please. Um, unfortunately, we didn't have enough time to check with the, uh, to talk about, unfortunately, Rags loss to the Drovers on Thursday night after me getting very excited about our good lead, which is, which makes me realize I should never be excited about anything ever and should always be miserable. Um, Pontebris beat Mercer. Oh, we're out. Oh, we're out. Mercer beat Pontebris. So, uh, Mercer looks, so it looks like Mercer's got a decent shot of overtaking Cardiff in the fourth place spot for the knockouts. Um, the Enduro 18s, Cardiff Enduro 18s men got, got a win, got the win over, um, Guy and... I can't remember, I must be honest. Obviously, basically, yeah, so they, they got their first win of the campaign. That's not the mix, so they're guaranteed third, um, with the title to be decided between the game this week between Scarlets and Ospreys. And the Enduro 18s women, uh, also finished third. So, you know, nice consistency, which is a rarity from Cardiff. And I said, well, if people want to hear about other ones, maybe we'll, uh, I don't know, maybe I'll convince Carwyn Stewart of sort of YouTube shorts to sort of give a rundown what he thinks of the premiership situation at the moment. If, you know, if he's not fed up with talking to the camera yet. Anyway, all that leaves is to say thank you for listening, and thank you to my co-host, Carwyn, for dealing with my ramblings. No, no ramblings, all harmony, all, all happy. We're happily leaving the pod, aren't we? Yes, as Liam put it, we are the best pod. Yeah. That was the listener. So, anyway... I'm not going to take full credit for that, but I will. I was going to say, if anything, I'll bring it down. So, uh, you know, I'm happy. Anyway. Thank you for listening to the Cardiff Central podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps spread the word. You can find us on all usual social media channels or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question is, rugby is always the answer.