The France and Italy one - with Cilla Black and Monty Python

The WRAP podcast discusses rugby in Wales, and this episode features a guest from Italy. They talk about their recent win against Scotland and the upcoming game against Wales. They also discuss their drink of the week, which includes some wanky bollocks. Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there if you want, or you can email us at welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. That's all the boring stuff out of the way, let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast with me, Lee G, joining me as always is Harley James, Jamie, I've just seen what you're holding up Jamie, so yeah, very much a YouTube thing. Good evening, gents. Evening. Good evening. Good evening. We'll introduce our guest and then we'll come back to what you're holding up, Jamie. So, joining us this evening is Italian podcast superstar, I guess you'd class yourself out that way. Nice. I like that. How's it going, mate? How's it going? Yeah, as you can imagine, it's very good boys. Yeah, it's very good. Ahead of what is my family's derby as such, Welsh Dad, Italian Mum, they come to blows on Saturday once again, so it's always an interesting one, but yeah, it's hard to be not feeling pretty chuffed after the weekend we've just had. So, just so everyone listening on the podcast knows, so you've got this season's, that is this season's shirt, isn't it? No, no, this is actually an Italian A-team shirt from 2000 and it's actually got a signature. I've been trying to track down who's this, I won it in a, I won it, it was gifted actually, it was the Warriors thing I was doing a couple of months ago and I was gifted this by one of the people that runs it and it's a much-worn shirt, regained it six ways back in 2000 when Italian A played England A or something. I've been trying to track down who's shirt it is, but can't do it for love nor money. I think I might know who it is, but can't be sure. But yeah, it's very old, but cool. So, you've got a signed shirt with no idea who signed it. I like this. I mean, you could just make anyone up, couldn't you? You could pick any half-decent player from there and just go, look, it's one of them. Sergio Paredes' shirt from 2000. See, I'm really glad you brought that up because I've spent the last ten minutes trying to figure out what year that jersey's from. It's a lovely jersey, isn't it? It is. Sometimes the plain and simple ones, they just hit the button, don't they? I love the capo as well. The capo, I love it. Okay, well, we'll talk all things Italian in a minute, but first of all, so let's introduce Jamie's friend. Should we call him Wally the Wooden Spoon, James? Do you want to give the wooden spoon a name? Or is it just kind of Wayne? Wayne? Yeah, let's just call it Wayne. I've just been to Seachest and holding up a wooden spoon just for cheap laughs, but that's what this game is. It's a wooden spoon decider and it's massive, isn't it? It's massive for both teams. So, let's embrace it, I say. Let's embrace the chaos and let's embrace the spoon. We could come third. We could come third. I know. Come on. A wooden spoon? A wooden spoon. Wooden spoons are a thing of the past, boys. I think we're going to need this next bit more than any other section in the pod. Let's do drink of the week now. I hope you've all got strong ones. Let's start with Harley. Evening, Harley. Good evening. What have you got, mate? So, I've decided to sort of go more towards my roots. So, I've got something from Glamorgan Brewing Co. So, this is their Welsh Pale Ale. So, this is a 4.3 for the Northers who like their alcohol percentages. And then what we're all here for is the hashtag wanky bollocks. Hashtag wanky bollocks, yeah. A super drinkable pale ale designed for long afternoons down the local. With notes of citrus and tropical fruit, Welsh Pale is easygoing, approachable and impossible to resist. Which is completely unlike anyone else I know from Glamorgan. Talk about shitting on your doorstep. Well done, Ace. Yeah. James, what have you got, mate? So, I've got, it's called Glide Naper. Very fancy. It's one of those ones like a coarse can. So, you've got a good grip while you're holding it. 7% tropical hazy IPA. Yeah, it's got a collaboration. It's a collaboration beer. So, the wanky bollocks is a collaboration with Drop, Project Brewing Co. Known for pushing creative boundaries and creating beers that inspire their passions for the industry and their lifestyles. Glide is a 7% New England IPA, based on tropical sweetness on the nose. The combination of mosaic, Simcoe and Strata hops. A dark resin with beautifully exotic passion fruits and strawberry tones. A silky smooth mouse feel helps with drinkability, providing a moreish, refreshing experience. This is wanky bollocks, isn't it? Dank and bingo with fruit tones of kiwi, strawberry, passion fruit. A little pine for balance. Oh my, that deserves a round of applause for the amount of wanky bollocks on there. You chastised me for having like no drink for the last couple of months. I've come out with two absolute bangers recently. That's knocking it out of the park. Right. So, Marcello, have you got a drink of the week? Well, I'd love to say that I do, but I've cleared out my Italian lager from the weekend. I overindulged on Saturday, so I've been left with absolutely nothing. So unfortunately, my drink of the week is pure and simple water to deal with the hangover still. That is carried on into Monday. I mean, I think we can forgive you for that one. Thank you. No wanky bollocks from me, I'm afraid. Jamie, what drink have you got to accompany your wanky bollocks? I have got from Mumble's Brewery, Mumble's Mild. It's a special bitter, 4%, very light. Not a lot in the way of wanky bollocks, but it says, light in colour from malty starting flavours and big on chinook hop flavours, which delight and linger well for a special bitter. I don't know if you've had this one before. Have you tried the Mumble's? I've had a Mumble's Brewery. I was down on the Mumble's Mild a couple of weeks ago, actually. Really nice restaurant down there. But no, I haven't tried that one. It's nice. I think you'd like this. It's very light. Malty's a good way to describe it. A very malty beer. But yeah, it's perfectly fine. And this is from Wales Ales, of course. So I've got a beer club delivery coming tomorrow, so I'll have brand new beers from the pub as well. So yeah, that's my beer of the week, Mumble's Mild. I look forward to the bit when Jamie gets his monthly delivery of beer now. I bet they pick out the special ones for you as well. Let's find the ones that's got the proper wanky bollocks on. Absolutely. I need more beers like James has got, really. I want more wanky bollocks like that. It's very good. That Salt Brewery though, that's where I had that sour beer from. That still sticks in my memory. That's still a bad, bad memory. So my one this week is a Glamorgan Brewing as well. It's called the Dead Canary IPA, 4.5%. Well-hopped IPA with a properly refreshing bitter finish. Brewed to honour the coal miner canaries that made the ultimate sacrifice, the liquid eulogy is a knockout. I don't know if there are dead canaries in it, or it's just to honour it, or there's some kind of... How you honour dead canaries with a beer, I don't know. I've had that beer on the pod before, you might have remembered. In the early episodes, I had a can of that. It's nice, isn't it? But it's got a dead canary on the front. I've only just noticed. So, yeah, that's my one for tonight. Right, okay, let's get down to business. So before we talk about Wales and Italy, let's talk about Italy and Scotland, because I think that was probably one of the best games that I've seen in a long, long time. Marcello, over to you, mate. What did you make of Italy-Scotland on the weekend? Well, I mean, it was very similar to... Well, not very similar, but I think it was similar in the way that we went into the Welsh game last year, when we'd sort of been talked up quite a bit in the week. We'd obviously drawn in France the week before, should have won the game. So I think there's an element of expectation and pressure on us. And I think 15 minutes in, when we find ourselves, you know, we've conceded two tries, especially the first one quite quickly, you're thinking a little bit of, oh, goodness, you know, have we shot ourselves in the foot here? Have we gone too soon? But then we score the first try and we kick a few penalties to keep it in. And then at half time, we're thinking, you know, we're still in the game here. What was it, six points difference at half time? And we're thinking we've not played brilliantly, but we're still in the game. And we've looked in up parks, quite dangerous. A couple of key moments, I think, you know, if Christy gets away and Brex doesn't track back and make that tackle and win that penalty, you know, that could have been a different story. Similarly, in the second half, if, you know, their try, they score right after half time, they score that and they, you know, open up what would have been about a 13, 14-point lead. That could have been a different story. But other than that, I thought it was, especially in that second half, a really, really good performance that was not based on fluke. It wasn't a shock. I'm not sure if anyone was particularly shocked with how Italy played. Maybe shocked that they won the game, but not with the performance. And I think we've shown enough in the Six Nations for people to think that we were capable of doing something at the weekend. But to go and actually do it, it was a whole different story. That defensive set at the end, you know, when we're under the pump for a good couple of minutes, they go through the phases and they struggle to really make serious inroads. I think we were so, you know, our collisions at the breakdown, the yards we were making, the carries. We played such an aggressive game. We played an organized game. We played in the right areas. We played when we needed to and we didn't play when we didn't need to. And it just felt like quite an all-round performance. And that's what's the most pleasing thing, that it didn't feel like it was just chaos all the time. It just felt like it was maybe organized chaos at times. But, yeah, I mean, we were just brilliant, you know, and we carried that sort of second half from France. Defensively, we looked so much better, physical, aggressive. And then we've got out-and-out world-class players, in my opinion, in our midfield and our back row is immense again. Yeah, we're just a team that are obviously got a lot of confidence right now and we're seemingly going in the right direction and with the under-20s winning at the weekend and the under-20s doing really well so far in the tournament as well. It just feels really good. So, obviously, we're absolutely chuffed and it's all about backing that up this weekend again. So, just talk me through the emotional rollercoaster. Scotland scored their last try and converted and bring it back to 31-29 and you've got about three or four minutes on the clock and you're kicking off. So, how, I mean, were you hiding behind the sofa? Were you throwing things at the telly? What was it like? If I'm being honest, I was actually, I'm a sports journalist by trade and I was actually covering a game of non-league football on Saturday afternoon. So, I actually had the game on my laptop whilst I was watching. So, I was simultaneously watching, but luckily the timings were such that the last 15 minutes were in the halftime break of the football, so I was able to just watch it. But, obviously, I was surrounded by people who had no idea what I was watching and why I kept punching in the air at random points. No one was really understanding what was quite going on and when the full-time whistle goes up and I'm standing up in the air, punching in the air and shouting this, that and the other and people are looking around and thinking, what on earth is this bloke doing? Do you know what? Maybe it's where I was in the situation I was, but I think when Scotland scored that try, I didn't feel hugely panicked. I thought we were controlling that. I think when Garbisi kicks that final penalty and we go, what, nine points up, I honestly at that point thought we'd won this game. I didn't think we were going to lose then and I think, obviously, Scotland worked their way forward. We managed to, you know, Carl Dixon tried his best to award a penalty try towards the end, which ultimately didn't really make any difference. They scored under the post anyway and get a seven-pointer, so it didn't really make too much difference. But then I think if Scotland had scored maybe a couple of minutes before, I would have been a bit more nervous, but I think given the time they scored, I felt like we were capable of playing two minutes defence. It ended up being a little bit more than that and maybe it was a little bit squeaky bum towards the end, but I actually massively backed us to defend that and get the win and we did. Yeah, absolutely. So, in terms of Wales then, would you say that Italy now go into this game as favourites? Would you be comfortable with a favourites tag or do you still see Wales as favourites being in Cardiff? Because we know Italy can win there, they have won there, so how do you see it going into this game? Are Italy the favourites, do you think? No, 1,000 per cent. I just think you can't go, I know France haven't been all, you know, they've been massively disappointing, but they're still France with the players they've got, the quality they have, the experience they have, and when we saw that in, especially towards the end of that game at the weekend, that they've still got world-class stars everywhere around the pitch and for us to have gone there, kept them to 13 points, should have won the game, we all know that, to then back that up against a Scotland team that people were thinking, you know, Scotland are going to go to Italy, they need to win so that they can try and win the tournament come next weekend. So for us to do what we did to France and then turn over that Scottish side, which was, it was a full-strength Scottish side, you know, maybe one or two, maybe, not necessarily even that they sort of rested anybody, they went, they knew what was coming, they knew they had to play their strongest team, they did, and we turned them over. So I don't think we can get those two results and go into a game with Wales, who have, in the last couple of years, been sort of on a gradual decline, that we don't go into that game as favourites, even if it is Cardiff. I mean, that's probably the one factor that might make it a little bit more even in terms of an actual bookmaker's sense, but no, I am very comfortable and honestly, I want that favourite tag because we had that against Wales last year in Rome and we didn't perform and we were really disappointing. This year, it's about us beating Wales, beating Wales, even beating Wales well and making sure we finish as high up in the table as possible. That's the goal, that's the aim, and this side at the moment are just flying confidence-wise, so they go to Cardiff massively confident and we're all, you know, really expecting the Italian win. That's what we need. We need to have that little bit of pressure on us because that's what's going to ultimately help us go even further. So, yes, I'm massively happy and confident with the favourite tag. Absolutely. We've got to embrace it, haven't we? We've got to embrace our favourite side. What's been the big change, then, in the Italian defence? Because I think we've all seen the Netflix documentary by now and you've got Crowley and that defence coach who didn't know the Italian players' names pulling his hair out about, you know, falling-off tackles and the lack of physicality because we know Italy have got physical players, right? You've got Lamarro, Breks, Manchello, you know, these really physical players but defence has always been a massive issue. So what's changed there? Well, I think we were all well aware that when Quesada came in, we knew that he was very much more of a defensive coach if you look through his career so far. He has placed a lot more emphasis on defence and being a strong team and being hard to beat. And when he first arrived, a lot of what he spoke about was coming in and harnessing what Italy had under Crowley and what had been developed in the last sort of 18 months, two years and bringing that forward and bringing that defence into that. So not trying to take away too much from that style because we've obviously really benefited from being that team that likes quick ball, wants to play and play from everywhere. Quesada comes in and I think he's been mindful of saying, yeah, that's great, we're going to keep doing that but we're going to do it in the right areas of the pitch. We're going to play a little bit more sensibly, there's going to be a bit more of an emphasis on defence and I think in Manchello and Breks, like you said, who are... Breks as well, he leads that defence and as a third team, he makes sure that you can all see how well he defends. And Manchello as well, they're not just good defenders, they are aggressive, they almost attack with defence, if you know what I mean. And we sort of use that to help us play in our attacks. Quesada's obviously had a massive influence and Goossen as well, you saw him at the end, he was absolutely chuffed and he would have worked really hard on that and obviously this will be his last game at the weekend before he departs as well. So I think they've obviously worked really hard on that but for sure it's been something that Quesada was always going to come in and make us harder to beat and make that defence stronger than it has. Sort of switching on to the other side of the ball there, so what do you think are the big things in attack that have improved with Italy? For me, one thing I've found is Pedrello, the player on behalf of who's been starting the last few games, I think he's been a bit of an eye-opener, at least in the game management, in getting you to play in the right areas. Well, he's French, I mean that helps because yes, the French are sort of, especially nowadays, they're similar in the way they like to attack but they make sure they do it in the right areas as well and they're obviously very well coached in France and he plays and has played in the top 14, he knows what he's doing. I think maybe what we've lacked a little bit in nines is confidence to run a game, confidence to organise the game and Pedrello obviously does that when he plays with France, he plays with big, big forwards and he's used to that and that's maybe what we've lacked and he's obviously that but also he has that little bit of flair, I mean we've seen it in the Champions Cup as well a little bit, some of the skills he has. So he definitely helps, I think Garibisi as well has had a really good tournament, I think there have been some questions asked about him and does he play enough games at 10 where he was with Montpellier and now he moves to Toulon and hopefully maybe he'll play a bit more at 10. It just seems to have clicked a little bit more, if I'm being totally honest, it seems to be the confidence is there and that makes a big difference when you're in a confident mood, things work. I mean it was working last year in an attacking sense, it was just doing it in the wrong areas of pitch, you can't in international rugby, it's very difficult to play from your own 22 and expect to win games, very unlikely. So Quesada has come in and made sure that we changed that up a little bit and the thing is, now we have genuine ball carriers, we have genuine players that when they carry the ball will make yards. Lorenzo Canane who came on at the weekend, he's been injured, he makes yards, he's aggressive. Ross Vincent as well, he's quick, he carries hard. Menoncello, Brecht, Seb Negri is probably the leader of that sort of give me the ball and I'm going to run into you as hard as I can, I'm going to make yards every time. So we've now got four, five massive ball carriers and that's what we hugely lack. And I dare say maybe it's something that Welsh rugby, especially in the international scene has struggled with in terms of having those players that you can just give the ball to and they'll just make you yards. And when you have that basis of being on the front foot and being behind the game line, it makes everything so much easier and we've always known that we have the quality and the ability to play but now that we've got those players that can get us on the game line and get us on the front foot, that makes a huge amount of difference. Yeah, absolutely. And with Italy coming to Cardiff this weekend, I don't know about you Marcel, I think this is the strongest Italy team in years. I mean, you look at your back three now, you've got Capuzzo, Leroy Liner and Monty Ione, that's a terrific and dangerous back three, isn't it? Your centre partnership, Greggs and Merrin Chen, that would be fantastic. I think one of the best centre partnerships in the tournament. But where do you think are the areas that Wales can target? Do you think Wales can target certain areas? Where are Italy still vulnerable, do you think? It's a good question actually. I mean, we've been so focused on how well we've improved and stuff, we sometimes don't think necessarily about where we can be. I still think that I'm never hugely confident still with Capuzzo under the high ball. I still don't know if... Sometimes some people say, let's play him on the wing, and he certainly plays there quite a lot club-wise. As a 15, he's still a small man. You know, you look at him and he looks like a boy still. And I think teams will still try and look at that. And I don't think Monty Ioane is brilliant under high ball either. We saw that at the weekend. There was a couple of times when that ball gets thrown up and he's not particularly there. And Luis Lina, that back three is still a little bit inexperienced in terms of working together as a back three. So I do expect Wales to kick the ball a lot. There's some doubts of whether Ioane will play. He might not be fit. Watts also had his finger repositioned in that game as well at the weekend. So I don't know whether he might also miss. But I think Wales kicking the ball and trying to get in behind Italy and target those areas is probably sort of the obvious one for me. Otherwise, I don't want to sound too cocky, but I'm sort of thinking I'm not entirely sure. I mean, Wales have been very effective at the breakdown. I guess that's probably where they'll try and hurt us. So maybe sort of the breakdown with Wainwright and Rafael have been really, really brilliant. And I think that they'll try and isolate us and they'll try and kick as well to compete. I think that's probably where they'll look to hurt Italy. I like the bit where you go, I don't want to sound too cocky. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Makes the most of it. That is me. Yeah, yeah. It's true. We're not coming up against Ireland here or France or even as the tournament has progressed, even, dare I say it, sorry, England, as much as I don't want to say that. But we are coming up against a team that is massively devoid of confidence. However, having said that, there's a case for me that Wales, Italy and England have been the three more impressive sides than the other three in that I don't think Wales have been blown away. I mean, at France the weekend, it was sort of in the last 15 minutes. I thought in stages there was maybe a moment or two where Ireland were not on the ropes, but Ireland were, Wales were in good positions. Against England, that could have been a win. Against Scotland, that could have easily been a win. I think Wales have, and we'll probably go on to talk about it more, but I think Wales have impressed me and I think obviously Italy have as well and England, to a degree, have also impressed in stages. So I think Wales will relish the underdog thing again and I think there is plenty to like and what I've seen has been quite encouraging at times from Wales and that's maybe not what people thought going into it. And I know four defeats from four doesn't sit right, does it? But there's an argument that that could have been different. So it's by no means a walk in the park and Wales have got a lot more wins in the Six Nations than Italy have and in the last 10 years have won the thing a lot of times. So we're coming up against a side, especially in Cardiff, and we still don't win a lot away from home. I know we won the last time we came to Cardiff. So there is that, there's the mental side of things as well and there's Wales being at home and there's been lots of positives and there's quite a lot of encouragement. So that's also something we have to deal with. So you mentioned the under-20s and the under-20s competition is still very close to my heart and I've just been, while you're talking, looked at two games that I remember in the under-20s, Italy versus Wales. Both happened in 2020. Oh no, one in 2020 and one in 2020. And you can see now that there's a real conveyor belt of just talent coming out of that under-20s team. So if I go to the under-20s one, and we brought this up on the Ospreys part of the week, but you've got Lucchese, Giuliani, Lorenzo Canone, Vani, Garbisi, Mori. It's just a conveyor belt of talent. And even in 2022, you had Ross Vinson, you had Lorenzo Pani, Alessandro Garbisi. And then my favourite player from Italy or coming out of it is David Oddiassi. Or David Oddiassi. Is that Ollana, I believe, right now? Who's just... If he has a Welsh grand, I'd get him over here in an instant. But how confident are you in the future of Italian rugby knowing that you have two strong club teams who are well-funded and then two very strong academies that are churning out just world-class talents? Yeah, I mean, the under-20s have been performing well for a number of years. And I think a couple of years ago, the question is, why are the under-20s so good and the senior team is not so bad? But why are the players not going through? Why are the results not there? In the last couple of years, that's started to happen. The senior side started to improve. And like you said, there are a lot of players that are coming through the under-20s and are being given a chance. This Italian squad is the youngest in the Six Nations in the first team. The youngest one there. It's probably the least experienced of the whole six. And to be where we are, with that in mind, is huge. That is the most encouraging thing about everything involved with Italian rugby at the moment is that team is so young and they're all just going to grow together. They're all going to grow together. They're all at a similar sort of level. They're just going to progress. In years to come, this team will be five years on. A lot of these players will be five years older and arguably at their peak. Menoncelo is 21, which is just bonkers. That guy is 21 and for me, already one of the best centres on the planet. Genuinely, I think he could get into any side. It's all about these players. You don't know what will happen to them in their careers. They might have a horrific injury. Jake Pelletier, we thought, would go on and win 100 caps for Italy and be one of the best players we've ever produced, but has injuries that rule him out for years on end. So anything can happen, but at 21, you look at someone like Menoncelo and just go, my God, if that's what we're producing and that's what we've got to look forward to, then Italian rugby is in great hands. I think that's the most encouraging thing. The under-18s produce results and the 20s produce results. Now, we're getting to a point where in the last two Six Nations, three Six Nations, there's a couple of wins, there's a draw, there might be another win here and there's potentially the highest finish of an Italian side in the Six Nations to come as well. So, yeah, it's massively encouraging, massively. We are very excited. That's the main thing that we take from all of this at the moment. Obviously, two years ago, you managed to get the Cardiff monkey off your back, beating us 21-22 in the last play with possibly one of the most iconic bits of commentary I've ever heard from the Italian broadcasters. How much would a win mean, do you feel, for this Italian side? As you mentioned, it's their chance to become the highest they've ever finished of thirds, in a match only by 2007-2013 where you finished fourth. I was thinking about this earlier, I was thinking about what will my reaction be if Italy win and it will be nowhere near what it was at the weekend, it will be nowhere near what it was when we beat France, it will be years ago, it will be nowhere near when we beat Ireland back in 2015 or whenever it was. It will be I'm expecting my team to win at the weekend, I'm expecting Italy to go to Cardiff and win and then I was thinking about it from another point of view and I was thinking, you can count on one hand how many times we've won Six Nations games in the past seven years and then even less in terms of away wins. So, if we win in Cardiff, it should be another oh my goodness, what a performance, what a result for Italian rugby. We are expecting Italy to go to Wales and win at the weekend. That is what I'm feeling and if we don't, I'll be really disappointed and if we do win, I'll look back and think what I'm expecting my team to win. So, it's a little bit of a strange one and also personally, it's not the game I like the least, but I'm expecting them to win at the weekend. So, that's how I'm feeling but when we look at it on the face of it, it will be another huge step in the right direction. For us, you know, we never back up a win with another one, that's not how it happens. Our wins come so low and then we wait another few years for one and that's how it's been in the past. It was seven years, eight years, seven years without winning a single game. It was just loss after loss after loss after loss. So, for us to go back to back wins to win the competition would be huge. Finishing potentially third, you know, if things go our way, that will obviously be huge and our best ever finish and we'll be able to look at that and be like wow. And the only way we get there is by beating Wales. So, if we do beat Wales, it'll be a huge, it'll be a massive achievement. Not necessarily in terms of beating the opposition that we're coming up against on Saturday, but more going into a game for a second week running with a little bit of expectation. There was expectation last week, but I still think Scotland were obviously the favourites this week. It's expectation and we're the favourites. So, it'll be a huge deal psychologically for this squad, this team to go back to back and also go into a game, spend a whole week being favourites and delivering. That is the big thing for us and if we can do that, that'll do us the world of good. Strangely, I think it'll be good for the Six Nations. Mainly, it'll piss off a lot of those people that two or three seasons ago that were calling for Italy to be removed and what's the point of them on all that kind of stuff. And, like you say, it comes through the under-20s, you can see it building and yeah, you're in that phase now of actually going into games as favourites. So, let's flip that around then. So, Jamie, we'll talk about the France game after but how do Wales prepare for this game now? Where do we go after the France game and then getting ready for this? What do we need to do this week? Well, Sam Wilberton said after the game that to beat Italy, you need an all-court game and I do agree with him. I just think Wales need to be aggressive. We've got to take it to Italy, I think. We need to keep the scoreboard ticking. You know, I don't want to see us turning down pickable points. I want us to keep the scoreboard ticking. Put the pressure on Italy because, you know, as much as I said, we are coming into this as favourites. So, let's put the pressure on them. Let's be aggressive. Let's be positive. Keep that scoreboard ticking and see where we go from here. I am very wary about this Italian team because our scrum has struggled as we saw against France. Well, against Torun, our scrum has struggled. And then, our second half in particular, our Italian scrum, they had the Scottish scrum on toast. So, I am really struggling to see what areas we are going to target. I mean, Marcelo has already mentioned the back three. I think he's right. I think there will be a lot of ticking. We've got to be accurate. We've got to see some control from our half-backs, which we did have until the replacement half-backs came on and we'll talk about that later. We can't be having that again. We need to be physical They're going to bring a different challenge to France because, you know, we'll talk about later with France, we were overpowered. They are not going to bring that same power, so they're a different kind of threat. They're a very good attacking team. And the thing about this Italian side now, they're very structured and they're smart. Before, they're a little bit scattergun. They would fall off their fitness in the last 20 minutes. This is not the same Italian team that we've been used to. This is a very good Italian team. Like I said, our centre partnership has been brilliant. Rex and Melanchel are dangerous. This scrub is solid. Wales have got it all to do this weekend. They really have. So, James, talk to me about where we improve in defence. Because we know Italy are going to throw everything at us for 85 minutes on Saturday. Are we up to it defensively? We were talking a little bit before we came on here just about defence and what have you. Where do we need to improve in defence? If we look at Sunday, on the whole, as a team, I think Wales defended alright. Unfortunately, when France is just constantly bringing on big lads, that does wear on you. But you've got similar to Lamarro in that sense. You've got Dow Jenkins who's making 26 tackles a game not missing one. Still putting in big hits. Baird is making big hits. So it's about can we make those tackles? Not necessarily dominant, but those tackles on the game consistently for 80 minutes. I think whoever plays 13 needs to be sharper to how quick Italy can get the ball out to the likes of Ioane or Cavazzo or Luigi Lainer. That's where Italy will spring big. They love a drawback pass. It's almost like watching a rugby league team at times in Italy. They play really flat to the line. That ball's going out behind them. It's a really, really good deception. It's like rugby league but it's also a very dumbed-down version of what the All Blacks used to play of just taking it to the line, creating holes in the midfield. Whoever plays 12 has got to lead that line really well. I think that's where you play into the Owen Watkin mould of having that defensive leader rather than the Tompkins. But then whoever plays 13, whether it be Roberts or North, they can't plant their feet. If you talk about that with Mini's rugby culture, if you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. 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If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. If you plant your feet in defence, it's really easy to go around you. How do we do that? We win the game, I'm happy. What I'd like to see is see a sort of relief ticket on Wales and put in a relief statement performance. I think, like I said last year, it didn't work out, but there is definitely a world where Italy go to Wales, put 40 points on Wales and win by 20. I can see that happening. We're not leaking a lot of points either. We were very good against France, especially away from home. So, I'll go with Wales and I'll leave it at that. See, what I'm going to do now is I'm going to go back and find last year's pod and edit out that section and then bring it into this so it'll go something like, so, Marcello, what do you think? Wales by, Italy by 20, maybe 30 points, easy, comfortable, yeah. That sounds familiar, doesn't it? Because I remember last year you came on the pod and it was really good. Yeah, I think, I do think there is a, there is obviously a much better chance this year but, you know, I really can see Italy being able to put out a really big statement win and people being like, wow, okay, what a way to finish for them and I don't think anyone would be hugely shocked if we did do that. No. But we've just, we've literally never done that. If we were to go and win by 10 points, that's probably going to be one of our best wins ever in a tournament if you look at it like that. So, Italy by 10 to 12 points, yeah, that's what I'm going with. We'll quickly go round the room then because you've got to go in and minimise. So, Jamie, your prediction quickly? Quickly, I'm going to go Wales by six. Because we haven't seen it, we've played well in patches, we've played well in halves but we need a full 80 minute performance but yes, I think Wales will win by six but we'll still get the wins. Okay. Harley, your prediction? I think I know less about this than I do the attack to be honest. I mean, the one thing I will, when we lost in Cardiff two years ago, I feel that was more because we didn't have a lot of experience and there's no one really stepping up. I'm going to say Italy by three. Italy by three. Okay. 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think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy 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six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think Italy will win by six but I think