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The hosts discuss the recent news and departures from the Cardiff Central rugby team. They mention several players leaving the team, including Arwel Robson, Matt Aubrey, Max Clarke, Gonzalo Bertranou, Kieran Parker, Shane Lewis-Hughes, Owen Lane, Tom Oss, Reece Carey, Ellis and Josh, Lupetti Tamani, Aled Summerhill, and Willis Halaholo. They also discuss the impact of these departures on the team and highlight Thomas Williams and Rhys Carry as particularly significant losses. They briefly mention the team's scrum performance and the importance of points conceded in evaluating defense. They end by mentioning the recent Judgement Day event. Welcome to the Cardiff Central Podcast. Hello and welcome to another episode of Cardiff Central. As always, it's me, Harley, in the hot seat. I am joined by Dan. Dan, how are you feeling now that we've finished the regular season? Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed, actually, after whingeing how long the running was for six months. I'm already missing rugby, but it is nice to have a bit of a break, I think. Yeah, it feels like this week, other than, you know, it's been on Monday, which I'm sure we'll get into later, it feels quite flat not having anything to get revved up for. Yeah. Maybe we need the DC to start now, just get us through the summer. Or some sign-ins. Hint, hint, Cardiff Central. A couple of sign-ins still to go. I don't know. They'll announce more once we're on air. So, a very light bit of news. We've got a load out and a load in. So, do you want to do the senior side leavers or the rags incoming first? We'll start with the leavers. There wasn't a huge amount, I don't think, that we didn't know about in there. Obviously, I think probably the big thing is who it didn't include in terms of, there was no sign of Ray Lillo in it, and there was no sign of him receiving any sort of award or anything at the official club awards on the weekend, where they honoured a few players who were heading out the door. The suggestion is he has signed a new one-year which is, I think, a smart move for the club to keep that experience around. I think Ray probably isn't going to be on huge money at this point in his career and isn't expecting to play every week. He's going to still be Mr Dependable when called on. But the list that they did announce, Arwell Robson is heading off to Shambury in the National. I think we knew that already. Matt Aubrey is confirmed as leaving. Didn't really see a huge amount of him, injuries and stuff. Yeah, probably not the end of the world, that. The two Dragons loans lads, Max Clarke and Gonzalo Bertranou, whether particularly Bertranou is a goodbye for now or not remains to be seen, but they're heading back. We knew about Kieran Parker retiring, Shane Lewis Hughes going to the Dragons, Owen Lane heading for Valance Romand, I think it was, in the Pro D. Obviously, the bigger names as well, Tom Oss off the Gloucester and Reece Carey back to Saracens, Ellis and Josh retiring. I think probably the three that we half knew but we're waiting for confirmation on, Lupetti Tamani is heading out. From what I understand, his 30-minute cameo on Saturday was a bit of popping him in the shop window hasn't got anywhere signed up yet, but I think the family heading back to Australia. Aled Somerhill, we half knew from his putting his highlights out, but I don't think he's got anything sorted yet. So he would be an asset to most clubs, I think, if they were to pick him up. And then the big one was the confirmation that Willis Aloholo is actually leaving this time after a sort of Willy won'ty summer last summer. But what a top bloke, top player. I think he's sort of run out of superlatives to the legend he is as a player and a man, but sad to see him go. I think the family are heading back to New Zealand. So hopefully, at the very least, he picks up something in the provincial competition at the end of the summer and maybe works his way into a wider super rugby squad because you've got to think that experience would be good for some of the younger New Zealand centres coming through. But yeah, sad to see him go, but wish him all the best. Yeah, absolutely. All the best, Willis. But if he doesn't make super rugby, I reckon Dallas Jackals could do with some magic in the centres. Yeah, nice little trip out to America for the girl, I'm sure. They'll enjoy a couple of nice barbecues out in Texas. Yeah, so who do you think we're going to miss most this season? I mean, nothing that's a bit harsh to single out anyone. Yeah, I think, obviously, experience-wise, you look at Turnbull and Jenkins, but I think in terms of playing-wise, Thomas Williams is the obvious answer there. We'll get on to Ellis Bevan a bit later. I have to hear some of his news this week. But for whoever comes in, whether it's Bevan or Ali Davis or somebody from South Africa, I don't know if I'd go as far to say that Thomas is a generational talent as such, but he's an elite-level player. He hasn't always had the recognition with Wales on that front, but I think particularly over the last 12 months, he's starting to properly nail down that first-choice international spot now. I think he is more than in contention to tour with the Lions next year if he has a good season again next season with Gloucester and Wales, so he's a huge miss. But maybe as much of a miss, I think, is probably Rhys Carry. He's our top scorer this season. That carrying ability. Yeah, his scrimmaging, it's not as weak as it once was, but he's not a top-level scrimmager. But just that work around the park, how we use him as effectively as a team ball carrier, how he can open up other players, then carrying in the wider channels, and then the way we use him off the top of line-outs and stuff to score when we're in the red zone. That's going to be a big miss next season, not having that go-to option to get us over the trial line. So I think those two in particular stand out as massive losses for me. I think as well as Tamani. I know he hasn't played that much this season for injuries or whatever, but again, a very good, reliable source of go-forwards. Yeah, somebody asked me if he'd been a success or not, and I was finding it quite difficult to answer to. I think the answer is he's not been a massive success of stuff because of the injuries, but he's not been not a success either. When he's played, he's been really important for us, actually. But yeah, as I said, just hasn't played enough this season quite. For me, I feel like he's not quite in terms of our non-Marsh-qualified signings. He's not up there with the Lelos, the Ole Morvinsons and the McWilliams. I would say he's in the sort of, what's the name, the American Lot 8 we've signed to take pressure off. Yeah, he's not Cam Doran. Samu Manoa? Yeah, he's definitely not Samu Manoa. The other player, I always thought Manoa Vosway wasn't quite as good as he could have been as well as another one. I've always felt that he's been committed to it and that the injuries, it's not like he's sort of half-arsed it with the injuries. He hasn't legitimately been injured and he's played on at times when he's obviously been carrying knocks. He's in the latter stages of a very physical career, being there and doing it at the highest level. I think it's probably right to see him move on, but it was a good move at the time to bring him in and particularly in that first season where he played a lot of second row. I think it stabilised our scrum in particular to not take it to the top of the league, but it went from being a liability to being something which we were just able to deal with. Let me finish this here about our scrum and not being top of the league. We are actually second in the league behind the Lions in terms of the scrum. What's that based on? Give me two and I'll get to the same thing, but I think it's mostly about scrum win percentage. I think it's probably weighted highly towards that. To my mind, the top should be the team that wins the most scrum penalties probably. I know the URC stats, the weighting they give to certain elements when they do the defensive rankings is not always agreed with by the clubs, for example. At one point a couple of years ago, I remember... We're top on that. Are we? We won the most scrum penalties. No, we're top on defence as well. Oh, I see. Because we've made the most tackles and the most turnovers. That's the thing. A couple of years ago, we made the most turnovers. We hadn't made many tackles because we just hadn't defended a huge amount and our ranking was quite low because of it. Then I wrote something about saying the defence was struggling based on those stats and the club were not too happy because according to their stats, they were quite a lot higher up just because of the different algorithms they used to decipher the ranking. Yeah, so they only put three stats on their team page. So scrums won or lost, which were six with 105. Scrum percentage, which is I think just the heaviest weighting one, where scrums won percentage with 95% success on the scrum. And then we were seventh on scrum penalties, won with 24. Yeah, that sounds about right. Putting us bang mid-table for scrum penalties sounds about right to me. And I think that's where our scrum is. It used to be bottom quarter and now it's sort of bang in the middle. It's not going to be pushed off too easily, but it's not going to turn up destroying lads either. Yeah. So this is the example for the Ospreys, who you definitely would put way up higher. They're 12th because their scrum won percentage is in 15th because they've actually only got 86% win on their own ball. But their second for scrum penalties won with 34 and they've won 108 scrums in third. They've put one loss, but they don't actually give you two numbers, which is why I... I mean, the Ospreys have pulled our scrum apart twice. Not as much on Saturday, we'll get on to Judgement Day in a bit, but certainly at Bridgend, they gave us a right good see into on that bog. Yeah. So DHL Stormers, who would be by your definition, the best scrum, they have 49 scrum penalties. So that's 15 more than the Ospreys won. But they've only won 99 scrums and had 88% wins. Yeah. I think they need to go back to the drawing board on their stats there. Yeah, I think as well. I think for me, like the big thing for defence has got to be... I think the biggest thing for your defence has got to be points conceded. Yeah. I think if you concede fewer points, you're probably a good defence. Yeah. Yeah, that's mad. Yeah. So speaking of Judgement Day, so I put... So just quickly get a good talk about the fan reaction, then we'll give our own view. So I put out the usual three word thoughts. So from Twitter, friend of the pod, Andrew Ford, but decent effort fellow. Big T, Tony, he's put on to next year. I'll allow on to his one word. Rob Hugh says, what forward pass? Yeah, put it up for that one, Troy. Ospreys best side by Drew Shepard. I think that's... Yeah, that's fair enough. Fair. Decent despite our WRU from Rob Hill. Then on to... Then on to the book of the face up. So we've got losing bonus point by Van Ninty and then Andrew Brughalier, who again, I keep messing it. I'm sorry, you need to come. You need to mention me and tell me how to pronounce your surname because I'm messing up every time. Sudden Seasoner, again, fair. Then on, sort of like when we post it onto the Cardiff Rugby fan page, a lot of people need to see it. Three word thoughts. I don't want the essays. But yeah, so a lot of things there. Ford wins games from Andrew Adrian Dunleavy, puts a big essay. Good crop, that's it. Then other ones are Best Team Lost by Andrew Gardner. Scrums need attention by Michelle Clare, where I've just said actually. It's not often we have that issue in the scrum. So I'll say Future Looks Bright by Rob Hackman. Ben Thomas Outstanding, Jonny Hunt. Roger Thomas, We Still Lost. Martin Priest said Really Good Game. I'll go with that. Matt Pox said WRE Screwed Over. I don't know who... They got screwed over by us or we got screwed over by them. They screwed over everyone. Christopher Nunn did acknowledge the fact that he wrote an essay that was much longer than three words. Exactly. Yeah, so those are the other ones. There's a couple of other things. And yeah, if I haven't read out your comments, because it's longer than three words. And again, there's the rules. I think they're pretty... they sum up the mood pretty well, probably at full time there. It was a good game, just on a general level. I thought Life Year Neutral, you probably really enjoyed that one. The only one I'd probably disagree with is the Better Team loss. I thought the Ospreys deserved it on the day. Ultimately, as we probably played the nicer rugby, which is maybe what they mean. I thought we moved the ball around better and we scored the nicer tries generally. But I mean, you just cannot let the Ospreys have any sort of set piece in against you, because they will just punish you. And that's what happened in the end. Their scrum got on top. They used them all second half quite well. A couple of yellow cards. Red card didn't particularly matter so much. But yeah, just generally, I thought it did sum up the season quite well for Cardiff. We played nice rugby. The young lads did really well. A couple of standout performances from them. We did what we thought we were going to do. Push into the sort of fringe 15-metre channels and really try and stretch the Ospreys. The tries we scored were really nice. The Cabango try is a really great try. The Brady try on half-time really well worked as well. And then a piece of Ben Thomas magic right at the end, who was fantastic on the day. But the best, I think, we've seen him play for Cardiff, really, playing at 10 or 12. And they'll talk about what his best position is. But ultimately, I think when he plays 12 for Cardiff, he pretty much plays 10 as well. There was a lot of time in the first half where he slotted into first receiver and is making decisions there. So no, they played really well. His link-up with De Beere we knew was good, but I thought what was particularly good from Thomas was his link-up with Winnett then on the outside channel as well. Winnett came into the line really well. It's his pass that puts Evan Lloyd away for the Brady try on half-time, which is a beautiful missed pass that just lets Lloyd run that outside arc in line and get his hands free. Lloyd as well, I thought was really good. His best performance in the Cardiff jersey so far. Lying out was excellent against a good set-piece team. And going up against Derry Lake, who probably is the best hooker in Wales still, I think, just about. He didn't look out of place at all. He didn't look like somebody who's still only recently converted to hooker, really. So that's positive for him and for Cardiff and for Wales. Yeah, I thought it was a good performance. And it just showed again, though, that we're close, but we're lacking in certain areas still. Set-piece and defensive discipline a little bit. We do need an out-and-out seven. Both of them is a great player. And where Reuben Morgan-Williams is going through and both of them scrags him and wins a turnover is a great piece of play. But I think he's much better when he's freed from the open-side duties and we bring in an out-and-out jackal there. And both of them can tackle, jackal, pop up where he wants in the defensive line just to his heart's content, really. So, yeah, things to take away for Sherratt over the summer. But overall, solid 8 out of 10 for Cardiff there. And two more losing bonus points to add to the column, just for a laugh, really. Yeah, I've got to finish. I said on wrap that that game that summed up our season scored a wonderful try. The try score gets injured very shortly afterwards. It was a thick red card. It was definitely a red. It was just a bit thick and lazy. Sorry, Seb. Yeah, I'm sure you know that. That's probably your finest moment this season. And then we've got two losing bonus points. And then you might have argued that when Luke Davis gets yellow-carded, you could make an argument saying maybe he should have at least looked at the possibility of a penalty try there. Because you can see they dive on Ray Lillo's arm as he's about to play for the ball. But I mean, I do feel like Osby, on the balance of things, probably deserves to win that game. So, yeah, I'm not going to play. It's a bit like with the Zebra game that if we'd won the draw, if we'd won that, I'd have felt like we'd cheated them a bit. Yeah, that's fine. I do think it is it does sum up the season, but it also will probably will review the season a bit more in depth in next week or in the coming weeks. But I think if you reviewed that performance on Saturday versus the game against Zebra early on or the home game against Benetton, we're a much better side now than we were then. If we had played those games in reverse order, we'd have been battered by the Ospreys first up in the start of the season. But I think we'd have cruised past a Zebra or a Benetton even at home on Saturday. There are teams who, you know, Benetton is a bit more our style of play, isn't as upfront physical as some teams are. I think we'd have maybe cruised past it. I hope I'm exaggerating it slightly. But if we played like that against Benetton, I'd have backed us to win at home on the day. So that is where the measure of success of the season is going to come from is, are we a better team now than the start of the year? And as individuals, yes, definitely. And as a team, particularly when we attack like that, we'll be missing it for a few weeks. But when our attack does click in that manner, then we are a much better rugby team now at the start of the year. So with a proper pre-season coming up, who knows what next season might bring? Yeah, I think, yeah. I said, so put the boys on the rap and I quite agree. We reckon that was the best Welsh derby for many, many years. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, certainly involving Cardiff, I tend not to retain much about these Welsh derbys, but I can't think of many better involving Cardiff in the last couple of years. You know, with the Scarlets, we've tended to either batter them or they've battered us. That's how it's gone recently. And the games against the Dragons are never massively competitive these days. Or if they are close, it's because they've been turgid affairs rather than because they've been entertaining. So, no, I have to say, I look forward to our games against the Ospreys more than most of the others. Maybe we've got a greater rivalry against Dragons because they're near neighbours or Scarlets because there's a history there. But I think just on performance in the post-2003 era, and there's an element of the Cardiff-Swansea thing there as well, but our games against the Ospreys are the ones that are certainly the most competitive and that I think bring the best out of both teams because it is such a clash of styles there, whereas it's a little bit less of that against the other two sides. But yeah, from a tactical perspective, they are very interesting. And when both sides are doing well, you can produce a game like that. Yeah, I see. I think the clash of styles, I thought, you know, a lot of places, particularly like the Ospreys, I would have thought Danger After You again, excellent. Boone Morgan, I still think he's the second best, you know, he was probably the second best knowing this season after Tom Moss when Thomas was sick. But we'll go on to those. We can sleek into those when we talk about Whale Squad. But before we go to Whale Squad, it's my pleasure to announce that the votes have been counted and verified. We have the Cardiff Rugby Awards come up and they have been sponsored by Manscaped, who have very kindly given all of us at The Wrapped Family some nice gear, including the Manscaped Performance Package 5 Ultra and some very, very nice bits of kit. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to use them yet, so I'll give you more of a review on them there. But the blurb that they've sent us is, it's smooth that summer, it's officially upon us. When you're playing in the summer, sir, make sure you're groomed from pubes to bum. Thanks to our friends at Manscaped, you can make your season your smoothest yet. The Performance Package 5.0 Ultra is the ultimate bundle to keep your voice sensitive, cool or looking hot. Join 10 million men worldwide if you trust Manscaped with our exclusive offer, where you can get 20% off plus free shipping when you go to manscaped.com and use the code RugbyBalls. So R-U-G-B-Y-B-A-L-L-S. And that's 20% off and you get free shipping. So have a look. I'm very excited. I think I'm going to be using this to get the weed whacker, which is the nose hair trimmer, because it's the only place where hair seems to grow on me because I can't do facial hair. It's just all nasal. I'm sorry for that horrid image, people, but that's a bit of the peep behind the curtain. That whole blurb just creates lots of images. But, you know, that's a good offer if people want to get on it. It's certainly one to jump on if you've been thinking about it for a while. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll see James from the Ospreys pod and Echo and from the Scarlets and Podcovery. They've both been very exciting and found it really easy to use. Hugh again, carefully from Scarlets, he got a set via Pirate Rugby and they've been flogging that because they've enjoyed it very well. Yeah, I've seen the old kit. It's lovely, really sturdy built. Water resistant, so you can take it in the shower. They say they hate taking it down the beach. I personally, I wouldn't go and start trimming my armpits in the middle of the sea, but each of their own. You know, like so you can tell between your skin tone, you know, make sure you can actually see what you're doing down there. No-nip technology, which sort of just reduces the, you know, so you don't have to feel so trepidatious when you're dealing with your lads. Anyway, so yes, thank you very much for Manscaped for providing us that kit. But once again, the offer code is RUGBYBALLS for your 20% off and free shipping. So, on to the awards. So, I'm only going to go for the winners. So, the polls went out on Twitter two weeks ago. So, I'm just going to go for the winner. I'm going to give you the vote share as well so you can see how contentious it is. So, starting off with Young Player of the Year, you know, Breakthrough Play, whichever way it was raised, I can't remember now. I think in surprise to absolutely nobody, this was Josh Turnbull. No, it was Cam Winnett who got 72% of the votes. So, congratulations, Cam. I have nothing to give you. If you get in contact, I'll get you some, I'll buy you some Manscaped merch or something, I don't know. You can have a Manscaped code for Rugby Balls for 20%. There we go, sorted. So, Best Team Performance. So, this was a little bit closer, but the one that came out on top was the Boxing Day game against the Dragons, which took 36% of the votes, which is a bit like how a Tory party will win in the election. How a Tory party would win an election. I don't think they would win this one. The Club's Unsung Hero, despite what I thought was excellent suggestions from Scott Andrews, this has gone to our wonderful captain, Liam Belcher, with 64% of the vote. Congratulations, Belcher, for that. Player of the Year. Yeah, Player of the Year, signing of the season, both gone to Tina Stibia, and basically just hands down, you know, going from two absolutely excellent tens in Priestley and Jarrod, going down to thinking, oh, well, shit, we're going to have to start an 18-year-old. She's just coming in as proper safe to us in this season. And I know I've complained about your kicking, play kicking. Please don't take it personally, I just dislike goal kickers. But, you know, thank you, because your play in running the game has been excellent, and the way you've implemented the kicking game strategy has actually been a big part of why we've been so good this season. So, thank you, Tina. Try of the Season is a bit of a 50-50. So, we've got two tries on 34% of the vote, so they've both gone a third of the vote each. We've got Kieran Azerati versus the Dragons and Thomas Young versus Quimms. Now, Dan, I'll leave this in to you. Do you want to just pick one of those two now and give that Try of the Season, or do we want to throw in one of the tries from Judgement Day and we put it out to vote again? No, I'm going to pick it, because I enjoy having the power. Although the tries on Judgement Day were good, I don't think any of them were quite as good as Kieran Azerati scoring from 75 metres out, going past eight Dragons defenders and scoring. Because Thomas Young won the official club one as well, Azer's try deserves some recognition. So, I'm going to give it to Azer against the Dragons. There you go. Congratulations, Kieran Azerati, for your try against the Dragons on Boxing Day. I mean, I feel like Try of the Season should come from Performance of the Season as well. Yeah, that's good. So, with 35% of the vote, with Dan's extra vote, that is your Try of the Season. Congratulations to all our winners. Again, if any of the players want to get in touch and want something, I'm sure we'll come up with some prize or another. It might just be a pint of the clubhouse next week. Depends on how close to payday it is. As long as I remember my CAC Club card so I can get the discount. Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm going to sign it up for my next season. I don't believe we discussed it. Didn't we discuss last week that Fictious had been released? No, that's true, actually. It was the day after, I think, wasn't it? After our recording that they came out. Well, we've got two things to look forward to for next season now because the Rags have announced their sign-ins and the Fictious have come out. Which one do you want to start with? Do you want to do Fictious quickly first? Shall we do the Rags? Yeah, do the Rags. Do the Rags sign-ins and then we'll quickly go through Fictious and we'll have a proper deep dive closer to the time, I think. Let me just pull it up. So the Rags confirmed eight new sign-ins for the semi-professional squad for the start of 24-25 in Super Rugby Cymru. Quite forward heavy, seven forwards, only one new back. So there's Mark Thomas, the loose head, who has had a random 12 months. He's been with the club for the last two years, suddenly retired in September, popped up playing for his home club, Biltwells, then came back to the premiership on permit for Pontypool and is now back playing for the Rags next season. So ultra experienced guy. I think the list of clubs he's played for is longer than my arm, but mostly Ospreys, Worcester, Harlequins for a bit as well. Then another loose head is Jared Williams, who played for the kind of eighth grade team pre-Covid, went to Exeter Uni and has won two Buck Super Rugby titles and come second this year with them, coming back from university next season, going to play semi-professional for the Broom Blacks. So he looks like a pretty good pick-up. I've seen glimpses of him playing for Exeter and he looks like a solid option. A hooker then, Gavin Parry is somebody we know well, played for the eighth grade side over the last couple of years, started the season with the Rags and was with the academy briefly, but then left the academy and signed for Pontypridd. He randomly was Scottish qualified then, so won two caps for Scotland in the 20 and the Six Nations and is currently playing for Watsonians in their Super Series or their Super Rugby Cymru, I suppose is probably the comparison there. So he'll be back in Cardiff. And the other hooker is Charlie Manship, who was also with the eighth grade side over the last couple of years, but is now coming into the semi-professional squad. A tight head, Tom Harper is from Pontypridd. He was at Swansea University for a couple of years pre-Covid and then played for Mountain Ash and Ponty. He was on permit with us against Llanddufri in the semi-final a couple of weeks ago and looks a big old unit at tight head, which is good to add to the team. In the back row, Benji Williams is another Ely boy coming in. He played eighth grade with us, went to the Ospreys for a year in their academy, played for Swansea University in Bucks Super Rugby, but then chose to leave their academy to come and play for Cardiff Met and was in the Bucks Super Rugby team of the year last year while at Cardiff Met. Aled Ward was in our academy a good couple of years ago, left to go to Cardiff Met. When he graduated university, he went to Hartbury in the English Championship and has been at Pontypridd the last two years, so good options, both of them. I think Benji is more of an out-and-out eight, so will probably slot in where Morgan Allen was alongside Evan Rees for the academy as the eight options. Aled Ward is a six-slash-seven, so can probably take the Craig Hud versatile role, where Hud will probably be covering second row a bit more next season. The back signing is probably the most surprised one of all the new signings. It's Josh Thomas, who people may remember from playing for the Ospreys quite regularly for a couple of years when he was younger. I think he kicked the winner against Leicester or something like that in quite a big game. He's been at Newcastle... Wasn't it that Leinster away game? It could well have been, yes, something like that. He's been at Newcastle the last two years, hasn't had a huge amount of game time there, particularly this season, but from what I understand, he's going to train full-time with the first team over pre-season. He's only 23 still. He'll play at 10, but can cover 15 as well, so could be a good option if we're bringing Harry Wilde in more regularly and having a bit of experience like Thomas at 15, so talking through games would be good. But if he impresses pre-season, there's no reason why he can't go and push the likes of Sheedy and Tinas as well in the fly-half ranks. Overall, some really good pick-ups there, along with the academy lads. There'll be plenty more of them next season in the rags. I think there's now probably 21, 22 semi-pros on the books, and then a good 15 or so senior academy players. Not all of them will play regularly for the rags. Some will play backstreet rugby or might even be involved in the first team a bit more. But yeah, rags squad is looking a world away now than it was this time last year. Yeah, absolutely. So it's nice to know that it's sort of building. It's impromptu to see that. They're all signings that definitely... I know I was talking with Tal and Yeston about both of those from the Welsh pub, because they discussed this news on there. It's nice that the rags are signing the exact sort of players that the super rugby generally is meant for. It's all the youngest developing players who maybe didn't quite make it through one way or another and took the chance to get back into the system. So that's quite promising. So as I said, the UFC have announced their fixtures, which is incredibly handy. So those are still deciding whether or not they're buying season tickets or not. I don't know whether it necessarily puts you off or puts you against. For me, one of the promising things is there's four Friday night home games, which for me, having to travel back to Denman having a Friday night game is great, because I can get away with leaving a bit of work a little bit later, and I go to the game and then drive home. Whereas I feel like something like a Saturday midday, I lose my day, and weekends are a bit precious with my daughter at the moment. So that's promising. I don't know why other people dislike them. Interesting thing. So once again, with the launch of our home games in the first half of the season, so we've actually got six home games in the first nine rounds, including five in the first seven. That first seven takes us past the Autumn International. So make what you will there. And then we end the season with the two easiest fixtures you could possibly have. Stormers and Bulls in South Africa. What do you make of this fixture list in terms of service? Yeah, there's a couple of random ones like going to South Africa in the last two weeks is going to be fun. Also playing the Scarlets twice in three rounds right to the start of the season. I think we go away to them in round two and then host them in round four. I think it is. So that's that's round. I'm not quite sure what happened there. But all in all, I think it works quite well. It's quite similar to this season as well, in the sense that on paper, at least, it's an easier first half of the season before the more difficult second half of the season. I can't remember exactly what it was, but Russ Petty on Twitter, if anyone follows him, does a lot of data and stats stuff. I think the average league finish position of our opponents in the first half of the season was 11th this season, and then it was eight in the second half of the season or something around there. So with the home games to go with that as well, it gives us a great chance to hit the ground running. It was Zebra home first up. If you bag a win there, going into playing the Scarlets twice, Welsh derbies, anything can happen. Hosting some South Africans in that run as well. You know, there's opportunities there for a couple of statement wins before the Six Nations really, I suppose, is where you would count the sort of end of that first block, because it'll go, even though the Autumn International's there, it'll go pretty much straight through to the end of Jan. And then it gets more difficult, I think, as both Irish teams away during the Six Nations, Connacht and Leinster on the fallow weeks. Got to play, I think, is it the Sharks home and the Lions home are either side of the Six Nations as well, where we're probably unlikely to have our internationals there, which is, particularly that Lions game, you kind of think, oh, that's something we might have fancied. That's a sticky one. Yeah. So that might be a tough one. But if we can, you know, if you can bag a couple of wins in those first couple of rounds up to, you know, Dragons on Boxing Day, see how we get on against the Ospreys on New Year's Day. But it's always tough there because the weather's always dreadful and they just sort of bully us off the park on New Year's Day, it feels like. But yeah, it's definitely a kind fixture list for Cardiff. You know, if you choose a fixture, you play Zebra home every week. But if you choose your fixtures within the confines of what is actually the format of the league, I don't think it would be too far off what we've ended up with, probably. So, yeah, we'll have a look at it closer to the time and see who recruits well over the summer. But I suspect there would have been a few wry smiles when they saw the fixture list account that it came in. You mentioned that first block, so if we go up to New Year's Day, so as we've alluded to it, we're home to Zebra, then we're away to Scarlets, then we host Glasgow Warriors for hosting the Scarlets in the return, Edinburgh away, then we host Ulster, then it's Dragons, then we've got the Ulster International Windows, then we host Dragons. And basically, it's those back-to-back games of Dragons. So we play them on the 30th of November, then Boxing Day. So we've got the European block in between there. So, yeah, this could be interesting because you've got them and then we've got these Cardiff, RSC, Newport Derbys as well on the other side of the Boxing Day game for those that want to watch them. And then, yes, then we're hosting Ospreys. Now, I know our form has not been great and we seem to, I don't know why, we've just got a mental block against Scarlets, but looking at that, ideally we're probably looking at seven, maybe eight wins. We need to be looking at the back of things. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that. The key will just be building momentum, I think. If you beat Zebra on that first one, played quite well, and roll then as the season, as the games go along, you know, you look at Glasgow home, was it Munster home in there as well? Yeah, Munster home is the last round before we do our South African tour. Ah, okay, so Ulster home then in that first block. So Glasgow home, Ulster home, Scarlets home. Those are games which, on our day, we can win those ones. You know, we pushed Glasgow away at the end of this season, we pushed Ulster away at the end of this season. I maintain that without the Ellis Jenkins red card, we beat the Scarlets at home this season as well. So, you know, yeah, if we can, if those games we target as turning losing bonus points into wins, you get four wins there. Edinburgh away is a bit of a free hit, you know, Scarlets away to a degree as well. We can keep our winning run up against the Dragons. Yeah, you know, especially if you get two kindish European fixtures as well against, I don't know, a French side who's not particularly interested in Newcastle or something like that in the challenge cup, then you've got a chance to rebuild some momentum through to that, you know, peak and then hopefully for that Ospreys New Year's Day game. And if we're anywhere sort of half competitive then through the end of the season, you know, those games are going to be tough going to Connock, going to Leinster, going to South Africa. But as the Ospreys have shown this season, really, if you ride that wave of confidence and feel like you can win and find a way to win to nick Toby Booth's tagline, then anything can happen in that running. It is, you know, once injuries start hitting teams, if you avoid that, then there's points out there to be gained. And with it being a top eight and there's a group of teams that are never particularly competitive, sorry, like Dragons and Zebra and stuff, then usually one South African is randomly dreadful for the whole season for no apparent reason. So, yeah, I think they'd be pretty happy and it definitely gives us an opportunity to be competitive. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would say it's like, I'd rather a different team. Like, if you could swap the glasses, like I know Ulster at home would be a hard picture, but I'd rather that first round of the season, Zebra, when we're losing our international, you know, the week when our internationals get pulled up. Yeah, Ulster will be quite a new team next year, a new coach and a couple of new players in key positions. But yeah, I don't think, I think the Zebra, there'll be a bit of pressure on that, I think, in that first game of the season to not only win, but win quite comfortably, probably. But if they do that and on our plastic pitch and on a nice day, we're certainly capable of putting Zebra away, then that'll be a great start to the season to kick on with. Yeah, absolutely. Guys, I think as the blue and black jersey is put away for the summer, it's time to think about the red one. Or green or black or teal, whatever random colour they're going to end up throwing for the Reds game. Would this game fall under the new colourblind rules for the South Africa game? I don't really know what they are, to be honest. But you can't play red and green against each other, is that what it is? Yes, although one team would have to use an alternate, which is why I think Wales have very helpfully had an alternate kit of green the last few years. Yeah, I don't know, actually, because this is pre-July, isn't it? Which is usually the end of June, they bring new stuff in. But to be honest, I don't know why they've put the things in, it has to be done by a certain date. If it's causing people problems, why not just change it straight away? It can't be that harsh. I think the problem at the moment is, very helpfully, I said Ireland's kit is just a very pale green, and then their alternate kit is just a very dark green, and then Wales have gone from red to green, so it's a bit of a pain that way. They should just do what they did when it was black and white TV, and they just have to have different coloured shorts. Yeah. But that's about right. Anyway, so, we have a Wales squad announcement. I had quite a few bits of rant about this on RAP, so please feel free to listen to that to pick up on things. Dan, do you want to kick us off with your feelings? Weird squad, just generally, to be honest. There are some quite debatable player selections, but just in terms of the balance of the squad is really weird. I know that there's issues around the South Africa games out of the window, so you can't pick the England and the French-based players. Then there's, if the Ospreys do manage to get to the final, they're going to be unavailable as well, so there's lots of different things to keep in mind. But you've picked four hookers, five tight heads, three recognised full backs, really, with a couple of more than able to cover there, and then one 10, and just five out-and-out back rowers, and three loose heads. You're sort of like, what's he thinking here? It's not like a training thing, because if that full squad is there, you've got five tight heads against three loose heads, so five tight heads are twiddling their thumbs, or you're doing scrum practice. That was odd, and that leads into, then, the players who have missed out, because there's a few players who I think will be desperately disappointed. Obviously, Morgan Morris, again. Reuben Morgan-Williams, as you said earlier, would have fancied it. Ewan Lloyd's probably quite disappointed that he hasn't got a slot in there. From a Cardiff point of view, I think James Botham will be disappointed not to be in there. I'd put Theo Cabango in there, obviously. We don't know exactly how bad his injury is at the moment. There were some comments about that, but I'll get on to it once you've finished. Generally, there is a making of a 23 in there, particularly looking at the Australia game, or the two tests against Australia. There is a possibility for an exciting 23 to emerge from the selection. From a Cardiff point of view, great that Ben Thomas is in there. Thoroughly deserved. Hopefully, he'll get a real chance to show what he can do. It looks like the 22 jersey is probably going to be his, pretty much, this summer, as a 10, a 12 and a 15. It looks like, to me, he's gone as the second choice 10, as well as battling for the 12 jersey. Ellis Bevan is a surprise, it's fair to say. I didn't have him even in my little piece of the blog of players in contention. I didn't include him in that. Not to say that he hasn't had a good season as such, but I just thought that he was probably fifth on my list of nines. Thomas, if he was fit, is up there. Then Gareth Davies and Kieran Hardy are already there. If Thomas didn't make it, then Reuben Morgan-Williams, to me, was the obvious next choice nine. I think Bevan has had a good season. He probably doesn't get many of the plaudits. A little bit, because he's in Thomas' shadow, which is going to be hard to break out from. He's not Thomas, not many players are, the truth of the matter, but he's still got a very good pass from the base. He's left the kicking game off as something a bit different. He's quite a physical bloke. I thought there was a little moment at the end of the first half against the Ospreys on the weekend where he just had a little snipe from the base of the ruck, goes under Huston and then gets an offload away for Alan Lawrence to give us some go forward from nothing. I'd like to see a lot more of that from him. I'd like to see him back himself a bit more, then challenge around the fringes of the ruck, look to bring forwards off him that way, look to use his own level of physicality. He's a pretty decent-sized bloke. He'll knock a few lads out of the way, certainly, if they're not expecting it. Obviously, the knock-on then is that it keeps fringe defences a bit honest and creates some space that wide. I don't think he's undeserving of it. I just fancied there was maybe more deserving nines than him. The other card of play is relatively expected. Domo and Asa, Evan Lloyd back in there. I think it's good for him to have a bit of continuity there. Mack Martin, I wouldn't have dropped him for Morgan Morris. If Morgan Morris was in there, I'd have dropped one of the tight heads and just added an extra back rower, personally. I think Mack is going to benefit a lot as well from still being in and around the squad. Mason Grady, no-brainer, can win it, no-brainer. Then Jacob Beetham gets in as well, who is in the shadow of winning it a little bit now, probably. I think he's going to be a player that Gatland's going to like as a physical guy, a good kicker out hand and off the tee, good defensive positioning, particularly. Overall, yes, it's an oddly built squad. A 23 can be salvaged from it, but I think just to touch on Morris as he is the main talking point. I mentioned it last week on the pod, I think I said, where he has been a YouTube player for me at times in the last two to three years. It's very highlight-driven versus 80 minutes of production. Toby Booth spoke well about it on the Scrum 5 podcast last week, but he said he wins players' play of the season quite a lot because they remember those moments of tries being scored and big carries, but you don't remember so much about some of the unseen work throughout the season. This season now, he has worked on his defence a lot. He is a much better defender this season. He's become well-rounded on both sides of the ball. He's never going to be a set-piece forward, so there's no point asking him to be that because that's not what he's going to be. You build the rest of the pack around that, but I think the wider point about Morris, whether you agree or disagree or are not as bothered about him being included or not, is that the national team is ultimately a reward for your club form. What does that say to other players in Wales if one of the standout players from the best Welsh club team this season is not being rewarded for working on his game and for being consistently good by getting a call-up? He's been overlooked again. If you're somebody who might fancy you're in that position as well, do you think actually, well, there's no point in me staying in Wales, I'll just go and take a contract elsewhere then. I'll head off to England or France to earn a bit of money because Gatland doesn't reward form, so what's the point of me hanging around? I think that's an extreme case of somebody leaving, but that's what Gatland has to keep in mind, is that there's no harm in rewarding players. I'd have hoped he'd have learnt his lesson from Josh Navidi really, from years of top regional performances. Maybe he didn't fancy him, he gets a chance and he's a test match player born to beat. That's my tapings on Morris. It's not so much a shock from whether you think he's an obvious test match player or not, it's just a disappointment in that his form and his work-ons haven't been rewarded, essentially. I mean, yeah, speaking of form and work-ons, so two of the best, so obviously me and Hugh Griffin did a breakdown of stats on all the different players. Two of the best second rows, so when we were looking at in terms of go forward carrying, which is something Gatland says they need, and in terms of their defence work, the amount of rucks they hit for the game. Lesser line-up win with the second one, but that's more because of how the Scarlets set that they like it. But James Ratty and Morgan Jones from the Ospreys and Scots respectively are far and away ahead of pretty much any of the other locks in the thing. And they have not, neither of those have been selected for someone who is playing fourth division Japanese rugby. Now, I made a huge rant on what a despicable human being I think Hill is. You've been excellent on the Cardiff Rugby blog for that. But I mean, just speaking of thinking, well, I've been playing out my skin as someone who no one other than a couple of guys walking their dogs past on the pitch will have seen play is getting in ahead. And you can say all the things about experience, and it's like, well, if you want an experienced player, he's not experienced at the international level, but Rory Thornton has been around and done it, and he's had a decent season. I wouldn't say he's written a priest, but you know, decent, and he's a good line-out operator, which with no add in beard, you are, we are missing a quality line-out operator. It just, that's beggar's belief. As for the tight heads, the reason we've got five is because three of them are unavailable for the first game. Well, then just don't pick one of them. They don't all need to go, I mean, that says to me that when Gatlin drops, because he's going to drop two from his squad, it's probably going to be a hooker, and it's going to be a tight head. And Mark said on the start of season one, it's probably going to be Harry O'Connor. Yeah. Which, you know, is a bit, you know, it reminds me a bit of what happened with Kirby Myhill and the PIVAC, because we played this stupid out-of-test window game, had no fit hookers, so they called him up for one game, dropped him as soon as everyone was a fit and available pitch. Otherwise, yeah. I don't get the point of bringing Liam Williams back. No, I don't. Because for me, if you're going to bring someone back from outside, as fantastic a player as Andy is, Cam Winnett was far and away the best thing about Wales in that six nations. He was just excellent. And you're not, for me, you're not bringing Liam Williams if you're not going to start him. So what you're saying is, cheers Cam, yeah, we're getting settled, you know. Jacob Beetham coming in, he's, Josh Cathway, they're basically just so other countries don't cap him, I think, as well as Jacob Beetham. He's seen as the third choice ten option, despite not playing it at all this season. Which, you know, they've gone with physicality on that one, which, all right, fine. Which makes me think, yeah, somebody's just going to call Rhys Patchel into the squad, just for lols. He's injured though, isn't he? He's come back early from New Zealand, I don't think he's lasted the whole season out there, they've ended up sounding ill. I'll be honest, I do Rhys Patchel is my default, he's injured, and then I'm going to be surprised when he turns up for a game. So, regarding Ellis Bennett, and it also sort of goes into why we haven't got Cobango, but would really die. Basically, Gatland said, ignite the Ellis Bennett left foot kicking option. They went, although Thomas would be fit for the Australia team, he wanted players who are going to be fit and available, and that's why Cobango dropped out. So he might have been fit, but basically, Giles has only got in because Cobango's injured. I think it's a bit shit, because I do think Keelan Giles has earned that spot outright, but I think he has been excellent this season. And then again, you're thinking, well, did we really need three out-and-out full-backs? Josh Hathaway, who plays wing and full-back in his preferred position as full-back, and then you've got Dylan Giles as your only out-and-out wingless. I suppose you've got Grady as a wing option as well. Yeah, it's just bizarre. On Williams, I think I could also see a scenario where he starts on the wing against South Africa. Just from my point of view, I've never liked him on the wing, particularly at test level. He's not got the out-and-out pace for me, he's not got the footwork to beat anybody particularly. His counter-attack inability from full-back is that he can pick a gap and he's quite brave. He'll go through somebody. He's got a nice step from a distance out, but in terms of two, three yards beating somebody in a phone box, that's not his game at all. He'll be the more physical option, I guess, coming short of 10s. I don't watch a huge amount of the Japanese league, but the clips that I do see, it's sometimes comical when these massive South Africans are barrelling through these small Japanese blokes. It almost looks like Man V. Boys. Liam Williams is not going to have had that regular test-his-body physicality this season. He even got injured out there. He missed a couple of games in the middle of the season. To then go into a game against, it might be Springbok C, they're still going to be massive, let's be fair. They've got the options to call up the Sharks and the Lions at the moment, depending on how Stillman's and Bulls do. I think they're going to go to the final anyway, so they probably won't be hitting the Bulls' face, but the problem is that the Sharks have a full-back type five. Even if they pick some lads up from Curry Cup, they're still going to be massive in the Curry Cup. They're going to be big. It's going to be a physical game. I question how his body holds up even in that game, to be honest. It doesn't seem to be much joined-up thinking when he's made the squad. He's picked names and has produced 36, I think, players. There's not a lot of, you know, I'll pick X amount of centres and then this releases this player to play as a winger, or I'll pick X amount of back rowers and then we'll slot in if there's any extra spaces and tight heads. It's very much like, I'll write all my tight heads down, and then I'll write all my hookers down, and there's a couple of spaces left, so we'll add some back rowers. You've only got one tent? Oh, Ben Thomas will do it and Jacob Ethan, that's fine. It doesn't look like in that selection meeting, they've gone, right, you know, let's have X amount of players in this position, X amount of players in this position. It's a haphazard. It's almost like they went to judgement day, they had a few beers late on the Saturday, they didn't get up until sort of two-ish on the Sunday. They got together at the Vale late on the Sunday night and then gone, oh, crap, we need to do this squad for tomorrow, and just chuck some names out there in that sense. But I will just say, like, go back to, if he picks a 23 of, and I think the one that I came up with off the top of my head was, you could go Gareth Thomas, let's say Elliot Dee to reward his form in the Six Nations, Azerati, Schoonzer and Dave Jenkins in the second row, Plumtree, Refel, Wainwright as a starting pack against Australia, you could go Gareth Davis and Costolo, Tomkins, Brady, Hathaway, Dyer and win it, with a bench then of Dewey Lake, Domichowski, Dylan Lewis, Ben Carter, second row cover, Jack Morgan, back row cover, Kieran Hardy, Ben Thomas and then, say, Keelan Giles as your outside back. That's not a bad 23 to play the Wallabies that I don't think, you know, is it good enough to win? Yes, potentially as individuals, they'd have to click as a team, there's quite a lot of new combinations there. But I could get excited about that 23. Will he end up picking that as a problem? No, I could see Hill being involved quite a lot in Australia. And yeah, I'm not going to, I've written my piece, I'm not going to get into that, because it will be a whole podcast worth of talking about that for me. But I could see Sanjay being involved quite heavily against Australia if he stays fit. You know, maybe he can bring in somebody like Henry Thomas back into the 23, not particularly young, and I don't know how well he's been doing in the pros he did, but you know, it's... Is that where he ends up? I think he fell off the radar after a month earlier. I think he might actually be available for... they're saying he might be available for the... I think so, yeah, because he's... Because he's basically floating around. Well, he's back at the Scarlets, but I don't think they've announced it yet. And they've probably had PRB permission to select him, even though he hasn't got the right amount of caps, because he's signed already with the Scarlets. But yeah... I think it was a weird medical joker thing, where he's just floating around... Yeah, he's bouncing around the south of France, which, you know, that's quite fun probably for Scotland, but I'm not sure it deserves you down the test corner at the end of it. So, yeah, I can... that would be in the 23 I could get excited about. I don't hold out much hope that that 23 actually appears in Australia, unfortunately. So I'm not so sure about your second row, because I feel like maybe Chunzo would be a 19 and you'd have Carter starting. Oh, yeah, I think that would be important. Why do you think, because out net locks? Yeah, I'd say quite... I think there's something in Carter. I know he's been up and down a little bit. I think he's been bulking up a little bit. Yeah, I think there's something there. Sorry, speaking of bulking up, obviously Alex Mann has been rested, because he's basically had a few niggles after playing in a very physical position and being a bit of a wee man. I hope he doesn't mind that. I mean, so if you're playing... if you're playing blindside international and you're six kilos lighter than I am, and you're a listed weight, you probably could do with a summer in the gym. Yeah, I don't think it does him or Josh Adams any harm at all to stay at home. Yeah, exactly. And it's great for Cardiff as well. I think... can we officially say friend of the pod, Josh Adams? Yes, he replied to us on Twitter. Didn't tag him, he just replied to us. Yeah, so Josh, you know, hey Josh, if you're bored in the summer, you know, feel free to come on the pod. You know, we'd love to chat your rugby story from your days with Worcester and Scarlet Academy before that. Yeah, yeah, open invite. In other interactions with the squad, I hope that Matt Jockey doesn't mind saying he did message the pod, just wanted to say thank you very much. It means an awful lot to all of us here, for your kind words. I won't go into full detail with the messages. But yeah, just... yeah, hope you guys continue to listen to us and I hope we continue to be a source of Earth positivity for you all. Any other thoughts on the squad? No, I don't think so. No, it's like a lot of players who are always going to be there and the only... I think the only interesting thing will be what he does captaincy-wise probably then, because obviously Dav Jenkins was the captain, but I think he said he'll pick different captains as they go along type thing, but I don't... Yeah, I think by the sound of it, this is final auditions for his captain. I think the problem Dav Jenkins has got is that he's not Wales-based and that's probably going to count against him ultimately, that he's not going to be in all training camps all the time versus a Jack Morgan or a Derry Lake or anybody else he fancies chucking in the mix who are, when fit, are going to be there constantly at the Vale, particularly in the Six Nations for two and a half months or however long it is. So yeah, it'd be interesting to see whether he named... I think he could just go down the route of naming a leadership group, to be honest, and put in Lake and Morgan and Jenkins, Tompkins probably could slot in there. Everyone's a captain. Yeah, well... Everyone's a captain. Put a leadership group at the top and then pick in one matchday voice then as you go and building it up that way, because we don't have any obvious experienced senior players who are captains, like Alan Wynne, Ken, John Davis, they are obvious captains at the time over the last few years, but we're lacking in that, where we've just skipped a massive generation of players essentially from the Golden Era to now, there's not many in that middle band who are obvious captain materials. But I wonder if maybe, say, against the Queensland game, a Queensland Reds game, if Ben Thomas might even fancy a little dig at a captaincy there. He's been quite good for us when he's taken the armband. Really, the Queensland Reds game is probably the one I'm most interested in, because I think that's when you are going to see... yeah, I reckon that's probably when you're going to get a Matthias Starr, you might get an Archie Griffin. I think Evan Lloyd, I've just got a feeling the Walters is probably assuring to start that game. Yeah, Ellis Bevan probably fancied that would be wary. Yeah, I could see it being like Ellis Bevan, Ben Thomas. You might have Costello on the bench, and then you might see Jacob Beeson start and he's a fullback or 12. That'd be quite an interesting game. Do you think Hathaway is going to play in one of the Australia tests? Yeah, I've just thought so, I think. Just get him capped, because obviously, a game against Clubside isn't capped. Yes, that's true. I imagine he'll pick what is quite an interesting team on that one. But my fear, though, is that they'll lose. And that that'll become, you know, it'll be built up into a much bigger thing than actually... the result will matter as such in that game, because it'll be young and inexperienced. But if we do end up losing, then that'll be the Wales Online headlines for a couple of weeks. Yeah. My biggest fear is that someone like a Ben Thomas or Mason Grady gets injured. And then we start the season right. Yeah. Which, considering how well it's, you know, that midfield... Bevan did the Thomas and Grady midfield started to work really well, both sides of the ball. Yeah. I'd like that to continue next season. I believe on that, that's pretty much all of our... I think that's pretty much everything we've got to say. Yeah. Good for next week. Yep. So, before I do the farewells, just remember, if you want 20% off and free shipping on any Mansgate product, to use the code RUGBYBALLS. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you, Dan, for joining me. Hopefully, we'll have Carwyn and a special guest of Francisco Einert, the Rugby World writer, who will sum up his first season as a Cardiff fan. Don't fall back. Afternoon from us. Bye. Thank you for listening to the Cardiff Central Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps spread the word. You can find us on all usual social media channels or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question is, rugby is always the answer.
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