EP 6-Rough Draft

The Unparalleled Performance Podcast is hosted by Josh Rebandt, who interviews ambitious and passionate guests each week. The podcast covers topics that help individuals become more disciplined and committed to their goals in life, leadership, and fitness. In this episode, Josh interviews Stu Fritz, the head baseball coach at Hope College. Stu shares his perspective on success, emphasizing the importance of building strong relationships and creating a positive culture. He believes that success goes beyond wins and losses, and is measured by the impact he has on his players' lives. Stu also discusses the role of communication and trust in building a successful team. This is the Unparalleled Performance Podcast. I am your host, Josh Rebandt. Each week we will feature guests who are ambitious and passionate about being more than the status quo because we all know that being average is the enemy to success. We will cover topics that will help you become more disciplined and committed to your goals in life, leadership, and fitness. Now on to this week's episode. And remember, as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. Enjoy the show. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode as we dive into the mind of another elite leader this week. But first, thank you for tuning in again wherever you are located at. We're off to a really great start with the podcast. I've had some awesome conversations over the last six weeks. Please continue to share these episodes with those around you as we all strive for greatness in our daily lives. And today's guest, Stu Fritz, he's the head baseball coach at Hope College in Holland, Michigan. I met Stu probably just over five years ago and have coached a handful of his Dutchman players in Traverse City. And I have a great deal of respect for his program, the relationships he has with his players, and obviously the amount of success he has accumulated on the field with over 600 wins and 10 MIAA championships. And he's also served as the vice president and president of the American Baseball Coaches Association, so very involved within the game of baseball, but also in leadership in general. So, Stu, to get started, thanks for hopping on here. And I know our audience will benefit from your experience and leadership, whether they're an athlete, a coach, parent, or fan. And let's lead off. We're just going to kind of dive right into some meat with a loaded topic on your perspective and thoughts on being a winner and what it means to be successful. We'll just take it from there. Yeah, I think that's a loaded topic. You know, we talk about success all the time. And we talk in our program that between the white lines, we're there to compete. We're there to win. We want to do it the right way. But winning is important. And I think you build stronger relationships. You build a better culture when you're having success between the white lines. When you go outside the white lines, then I think it's a thousand percent about what we as coaches and as an institution can do for the kids. We want to be there for them academically, spiritually, mentally, really anything that they need. So, yeah, to define success, you know, here I am in year 35, 30 at Hope. And I would say that the wins and losses would be somewhere down the ladder in terms of success. For me, it's players' weddings, it's players' children, it's coaching former players' kids. I think those are things that I look at now and say, that's success. And, you know, I think as coaches, Reeves, we look at the impact that we can have on the lives of kids. And the longer you do this, the more you realize that it's actually the impact that they have on us when it's all said and done. So we're called to have a small part, you know, in giving them transformational experiences from the time they get to our institution until the time they leave. But it ends up being the impact that they have on me, my family, just the way of life that we call coaching. Yeah. And it's so funny how, like you talk about it being lower on the ladder in terms of what actual success is. But you look at all the successful programs across the country, and there might be some outliers there of people that maybe some coaches that don't care about their players as much that win a championship. It happens. But it's funny to me that sustained success are coaches that value more on the relationship side of it than they do on the field. And if you can just kind of dive into a little bit deeper in terms of why that's the case and why making an impact on the player themselves ends up outsourcing success on the field. Yeah, I think part of that is, you know, it's in your DNA when you care about people and you care about kids. But maybe it's because of the mentors that I had, coaches that truly cared about me as a human being way more than as a player. And, you know, the relationships that you generate during the recruiting process with parents, that kind of thing, it just, I think it runs deeper. And you get to know kids at a much deeper level. When you have the opportunity to spend time with them daily, you get to know their family, you get to know the ins and outs. And that's all off the field stuff when you get between the lines, then it's go time and it's compete. But relationships, I guess, for lack of a better way, Reeves, it comes pretty natural. To me, it's what gets me up in the morning is being around our kids. It's the best practice at the best three hours of the day. Spending time in my office with kids, talking individually about issues that they might have or celebrating their successes. And I guess, living in the sorrow of some of the things that they have. A great example that I could give just was one of the more joyous occasions we've ever had. Last summer, our son got married. And there were 11 Hope College baseball players that were in his wedding, and probably 40 former players that were there. For one of the few times in my life, I was able to stand on the outside and just look. I don't know about you, Reeves, but as I age, I tend to cry a little bit easier. I'm already there. I have a baby girl. I'm standing at that wedding. My wife and I are standing on the outside of the wedding hall and just watching our kids. And truly, what we're watching is them love each other and be there for each other. And that truly is what success, going back to your first question, that's what success is to me, is creating an environment. And it starts with me, but it's built from within. So I take very little of that credit. It's just getting kids to love each other, to trust each other. And we talk about that all the time. And it was on display for us at one of the happiest nights of our life. Yeah. And I know, obviously, coaches, you and I and all the coaches, we don't want to take credit for anything, but it really stems from the top. The way that you and I and other coaches, other leaders carry themselves is a direct reflection on, I guess maybe not on a, it is on a successful, but more so on cultures that don't have any success. You know that there's no sense of culture or feel of culture from that leader if there's not a very good culture. So I think successful cultures, they may not have the most culture-driven coach, but not successful cultures definitely don't have one. So you're doing things the right way just by giving that opportunity for your guys to feel comfortable. And I think that's something that's really cool about you. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, it does. And one of the other things, I guess, that I would put in there for any of the younger coaches that are listening, for me, when I started, I felt like I needed to prove to myself and to the institution, and most importantly, probably to the kids that I belonged coaching at that level, because honestly, I didn't know if I did. I was 26 years old when I started. And so I think you go through these phases during your coaching career, where it probably was about self-promotion a little bit. As bad as that may sound, but you're trying to prove to yourself and anybody that's involved in the program that you're worthy to be there. And I really think that you reach, I don't know if pinnacles are the right word, but you reach a comfort zone when you can say that ship has sailed. It's not about anything that we're doing. It's about what type of product, what type of environment are we providing for our kids. And it has to be all about the kids. And we talk about wins and losses and all those things. And I'm ultra competitive to a fault between the lines. And when I lose that, I'll quit. But at the same time, that never trumps what we're trying to do outside the lines. And that's when you can make it less about you and less about the number of likes that your program is going to get in social media and more about the young men that are in your program. I think that will help build culture. Yeah. And it's something so easy to do, but to make that happen, there is so much communication that has to take place. And I know you, and you've already mentioned a couple of times, like just having guys coming into your office to have a chat about whether academics, whether it's about life, probably rarely about baseball. That's just a lot of it is that we don't... Our conversations to breed a great culture, the conversations that coaches have with their players, yeah, it has some to do with baseball, but a lot of it has to do with, like you said, getting to know the kid and making them feel comfortable, building that trust with them. And yeah, you hit on the head with what success is. And I think conversations about baseball reaps are oftentimes pretty short, because if you're absolutely 100% upfront and honest with the kid and you come in and ask me why you're not playing, the answer is pretty simple, is that you have to do better than the person that's in front of you. And we could talk about ways for them to get better, but we're trying to put the best kids on the field to give our team a chance to win. So baseball conversations oftentimes are much shorter. It's when you dive into real life situations. That's where you really get to know kids and understand their families and get to know their heart a little bit, and building trust. And then once that trust is built, then you can coach them like crazy on the field, but you can't do it until... And it's a cliche, but it's the truth. You can't do it until they know that you love them. Right on. Right on. Yeah. And kind of along these same lines, if you can take us into your locker room through kind of your messaging and the differences between when your team's playing really well and having success versus how your team or how you kind of message to the team when they aren't playing well. And just kind of as an example, so Coach Hodge, he was the basketball coach at Olivet Nazarene University when I was there with Todd, when I was the GA. And one of the things that I learned from Todd that he had learned from Coach Hodge was that coaching your players harder when you're winning and then giving them a little bit more breathing room when they're losing. And I had never thought about it that way. I was a young coach. I had my only previous coaching experience was at Clearwater Christian College up to that point, a couple of years in summer ball. And I just kind of innately thought like, man, to really get these guys to win, I got to be hard on them when we lose. And then I saw the amount of success that Coach Hodge was having with the basketball team at Olivet Nazarene, how much success Todd was having with the baseball program. And I'm like, man, I have completely missed the boat on this. And that's where my view on that kind of shifted. So, yeah, if you can just take us into your locker room and your philosophy on that. Yeah, I've done a 180 on that too. You know, when I first started, yeah, I was a yeller. I still couldn't get a little loud, but I was a yeller and tried to demand certain things. But 100% agree, when you're playing well, I don't think the expectations change. The expectations have to be set. And you have expectations of how you expect your kids to act on the field, off the field, all of that. So win or lose, that has to stay the same. But exactly to back off and to give them a little bit of breathing room when things aren't going good. The other thing that I talk about all the time is our four walls. I would say that our culture has become very inclusive. So we will take any kid that makes our program and they get into the fold of our culture. So what happens within our four walls, I tell our kids every day, it has to be great and it has to stay there. And if the four walls start to crack, win or lose, it's no good for anybody. And so last year, we had one of the best years we've had in our program's history. And certain guys were steering the boat and those kids were kids that I just naturally coached a little bit harder. And right now, where we're at in our season, we're trying to find some answers and trying to figure out what our identity looks like. And I would 100% say that I backed off on that just to try to allow that to happen. It's a balancing act because you can't back off too much. Because you still have to be the head coach and you still have to provide the guidance, especially if you're not seeing the leadership that you might need to get you where you want to go. But I would say our locker room is built on love. It's built on trust. Our guys love to hang out. I think there's an element of tough love. And I think you need that. I think there's accountability, which goes along with tough love. And you have to have guys within your culture that are willing to defend your culture, I guess is the way I would put it. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And kind of building on that note of identity and where your team's at right now, not specifically this year, but just in general, do you, as a coach, love kind of the journey of the season or the destination of the season? What's your take on that? I think it probably changes some. You know, when you're in the middle of a winning streak, you love the journey. You love the journey of it because you're confident, your kids are confident. You go in and say, we're going to play well today. But I will tell you that I hate losing more than I love winning. And when you win, it's almost a feeling of relief instead of joy. And I don't say that to scare any coaches away from it. I just think that, you know, it's an expectation that you have in your program. It's an expectation you have of your kids. So when you win, you're relieved and you're ready to go for the next day. And we talked about, you know, owning the process. The process is probably overused, but it's a long journey. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. And we talked about handling pressure. And we talked about the actual, what is pressure in a baseball situation versus a real life situation. And you come back very quickly and realize that baseball pressure is nothing compared to what you're going to face in the rest of your life. So I don't know if I answered your question. I probably just rambled. But I do love the process. I would tell you that I love the process of fall ball probably more than I do in the spring, because the element of winning isn't there. So you can enjoy the kids in the game a little bit more. I think sometimes having to win changes our personality a little bit. And I'm not proud of that. But I think that's what happens sometimes when you start looking at standings and win-loss count. It's funny you bring that up, because in Traverse City, sometimes I'll go to bed at night. And if when we're playing well, and this is completely opposite, it's just kind of the way my brain operates. So when we're playing well, I actually can't sleep. It made me think of this because you talked about it kind of being a relief, you know, sometimes, like if you win. And I actually don't sleep more when we're winning than we do when we're losing. And it's probably because I don't want to screw it up. Like if we're playing well, like you said, if that's your expectation of your team, you don't want to screw it up. So I stay up all night thinking like, man, what am I going to do tomorrow to screw this thing up? And it's... Yeah, or you think about, Reebs, you know, you win five, six, seven in a row. And we as coaches, we know that's coming to an end, even though the kids think that it's just going to be, you know, forever. So when we're playing well, I think about kind of what you just said. I think about, okay, when are we going to screw this up? When are we going to play poorly and lose? And I do too. I sleep better when we're not playing well. Because I... Because you know that you can crawl out of it at some point. Well, you hope so, for sure. Yep. Right. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So, yeah, I just, I've thought about that a lot, especially since the, like I mentioned a few minutes ago about, you know, Coach Hodge and all of that and thinking about, you know, not wanting to screw it up, but also coaching your guys harder. And you start thinking about more things that you could do to screw it up. And you have to, I feel like I have to be more proactive when we are playing well. And that's probably what keeps me up at night. Whereas the next day, I'm like, you know, it's another opportunity. I'm excited to get back out there because I love the guys I'm around. I love the coaching staff that's here. And it's the people that keep bringing you back. So if you're losing, if you're surrounded by great people, then your culture is going to be okay. So I guess that's kind of my main point. Yeah, just to follow up on that, just for a second, you mentioned the people. You know, for me to be at an institution like HOPE for 30 years, and to be surrounded with people, the kids that have played in our program, the administrators that I've had an opportunity to work with, and then the dozens of assistant coaches, you know, young kids that have come and gone. I totally agree with you. If the people are right, and are there for the right reasons, everything else will take care of itself. And I oftentimes will say that what keeps you up at night has to be the exact same thing that gets you up in the morning. And sometimes that's winning, and sometimes that's losing. And oftentimes, it's the fear of either one. Yeah, well, funny you say that. So when I was at ABCA in January, and Mike Bianco spoke from Ole Miss at the beginning, I went to his Q&A right after. And I asked him, what motivates him each morning when he gets out of bed? You know, I just I like to pick people's brains like I am yours, just get into the minds of people who have been successful at an elite level. And his answer to me was fear. That's what motivates him every morning. And I thought about it for a little while, for a few days afterwards. I'm like, man, that's really interesting that fear is what drives somebody that's successful. And when I started breaking it down in my mind, it just makes sense, because he mentioned the fear of letting his players down, the fear of letting his family down by, you know, maybe having a few bad seasons in a row and getting fired and having to move his family somewhere else, the fear of not being successful. And a lot of times, you know, we look at some of those things as not an elite character trait. But I think that is something that is of somebody that has successes, that there is some level of fear. Maybe it's not exactly what motivates you right when your feet hit the ground. But for I think it's at least in all of our minds at some point throughout the day, when we, you know, are going through our stuff is that fear is definitely real, and we just have to be able to attack it. I think it's human nature, to be honest. And, you know, if we say that we don't have fear, we're probably kidding ourselves. It's, you know, I'll watch teams take pregame IO, and I'll look at their kids, and I'm like, well, we don't have anybody that looks like that, or we don't have anybody that looks like that. So it's probably the fear of letting our kids down, letting the program down, and just not ending up where you want to be. And that's between the lines. When that game's over, then you're going to go and you're going to eat with your team, and you're going to ride home in the bus, and you're going to spend quality time there. But that quality time, in my opinion, is very much enhanced based on what happened between the lines. Yeah, right on, right on. And in terms of how you view your players, and I have a list of questions, I'm just trying to, because I think you've got a lot of really good philosophies on things I think a lot of people can hear. Your view on players when you started coaching versus now having three decades of experience? So, for example, my first couple years, I'm only a decade into coaching, so my first kind of third of that, I looked at players mostly solely based on talent. And part of it was because we needed talented players. I was at a small Christian college. I just really needed as many talented guys. They could pass the credit hours and write a statement of faith to get accepted to school, whatever. I was fine with it. But as I've kind of gone through the years, I've noticed how much more I just want to be around people that I enjoy spending time with, players that, when we're at the hotel, that I can sit down and have breakfast with and just have a normal conversation with about life, and people that have balance in their lives and things like that. So that's kind of my example. I just kind of, for you in your first kind of decade, or maybe first few years, and then to now, how is that view of your players shifting? Yeah, well, before I get into that, I can promise you, Reeves, that you have guys that love being around you too. I mean, the guys that have played for you, that have been from my program, have had wonderful experiences just getting to know you as a person first and then as a coach second. And it leads me into my answer a little bit. I would say, you know, it goes back to maybe 10 minutes ago. I would like to call my first five teams that I coached and just tell them I'm sorry. I was 26 years old when I started. I think it was not outwardly self-promotion. I wasn't trying to promote myself, but I was trying to figure out if I could actually do this. And I would say that I coached player first and person second. And that probably went on longer than what I'm proud to say. I still love the kids at the same time. But I would get upset at physical mistakes. My body language was terrible. And you're getting upset over things that are just going to happen every single day. And as this thing has morphed a little bit, and probably where I've become more confident in our program and in myself, it's very much now person first and player second. And I think that would be evident by just watching our team compete, where in my first decade of coaching, I'm not sure that was the case. I've learned a lot from my players by observing them, by having heart-to-heart conversations where they've looked at me and evaluated me and told me some things that they thought that needed to change. And as hard as that is, human nature is to take those comments and try to change and try to build off that. And it takes a while to admit that you might have done something wrong. But I would say now it's person. I care about them as human beings. And when we get between the lines, then it turns more into how we're going to compete. But I love going to work every single day, every single day just to be around our kids. Yeah. And that kind of makes me think about, so like when I went on a missions trip to Nicaragua when I was in 2008, so I was just after my freshman year of college. And when I went on a missions trip, my first thought was, how much of an impact can we make on this community, the people that we're going to see? And then in return, the value is so much greater. I got so much more out of it myself. And that's exactly what you're saying about our players and how I don't know if our players realize how much that they impact us as coaches and the way that we carry ourselves, the way that our program evolves over the course of years and how much of an impact their time playing for us really makes a huge difference. And I saw a tweet, I think it was a tweet, maybe within the last couple of weeks. And I couldn't tell you the account that I saw it on, but it said something along the lines of, I wish coaches would say thank you publicly about their players, just as for helping them get to where they are, as often as players will thank their coaching staffs for helping them get to that next step, whether it's in life or in professional athletics, whatever the case is. And yeah, I just kind of going off of what you said as well, like just learning so much from our players. And I'm only 10 years in. I mean, I would, we could talk for probably 45 minutes about things that you've learned from your players. You know, one of the other things, Reed, that I should mention is, you know, our son just played for me, just finished four years with our program and graduated. I learned more in four years about our culture by having my son in the program, who wasn't a starter. He was a very good leader, leader in the weight room, leader in the dugout and clubhouse. But I no longer had to ask the hard questions of our kids. I had a better pulse on what our culture was like because of my son. And I realized very quickly, you talked a little bit about work-life balance and just balance before. I think we as coaches oftentimes will impose our will upon our kids when maybe that's not the right move for where your program's at. So I honestly think, and Tim Corbin is a guy that when he speaks, I write things down. And he told me one day, he said, Stu, guys need less of us, not more of us. And I've really tried to adhere to that, where I impose my will less and try to be heard less and to try to let the culture dictate what needs to be said or needs to be done. You can't let it go completely, obviously, because we still have to be in charge. But I think it's even more rewarding when you see an Evan Mayday who's just steering the boat and putting the team on his back and saying, here we go, guys. And yeah, so last year was fun to watch with those kids and to watch the leadership. And I think part of growth as a coach is to not always have to be in front. In fact, sometimes I think we see way more by being more in the back. And that's one of the things that I learned by having my son in our program. That's so cool. I don't know if I'll ever write a book someday. I do enjoy writing and just the thoughts of writing out topics of what we're talking about. And one of the things that I've thought about a lot is that coaches that can reach the back of the bus. So you're talking about culture and leadership and that type of thing. Coaches that have the ability to reach the players that always sit in the back two or three rows of the bus that have a relationship with those guys are coaches that are making an impact long beyond that season. Because a lot of times the guys that sit in the back, they're the guys that usually either they're showing up first to the bus so they can get that back seat because they're selfish and they want to sit back there. Or B, they're the ones that just are kind of the nonchalant, no care type thing. They'll show up two minutes before. Everybody knows that that seat's theirs. And it's just sometimes that vibe is what guys are like that sit towards the back of the bus. For us, the kids that sit in the first three rows behind us on a bus, they're always in our corner, no matter what. We're always going to have those conversations. But if we can have those hard conversations with the guys that sit in the back three rows, that's where I think that culture is built. If not only us as coaches, but like you said, being able to even take another step removed and have the players that sit in the first three rows, if they can have the relationship then with the guys in the back three rows and how big of a difference that makes. And how do you bring value to the kids that aren't getting the opportunity day in and day out on the field? Some of the most important kids in the clubhouse and in your program are kids that aren't playing every single day. And finding value, giving them a perceived sense of worth, being a member of your team, because that's hard with travel ball and high school stuff right now. Everybody comes in and they're the guy. So how do you get them to find value in being a part of your program? It's the front of the bus. It's the back of the bus, guys. And when guys can take ownership of that and get them to love it as much as the guys that are playing, that's when it becomes special. And I think it's a moving target. Culture is a moving target. It changes every single year. I looked at our culture from last year and where it's at this year. We've got great dudes in our program. But again, we're still trying to find what our identity is. And, you know, we started league play this weekend. And it's fun to watch kids venture into that leadership role when they haven't had to be there. And, yeah, we just, we're very inclusive within our four walls. And we want to bring value to everyone. Yeah. Can you, so I'll give you an example. I wonder if you can touch on a little bit. So cultures that are great oftentimes have really tough moments throughout the year as well. Like I think of Tom Izzo's Michigan State team. He was so grateful for how much adversity that adversity that their program and even their university had gone through this year. And he felt like that kind of helped propel them towards the end of their postseason run and getting them to where they went. But I think a lot of times, and I've talked about this a little bit in some previous episodes with some other coaches and even players. But so quick example, in 2019, I took a picture out of a playoff game and he was livid, absolutely livid. And I had had a conversation with him pre-game. I said, you may only go one time through the order. I don't know if we want to roll you a second time through the order against this team. And I took him out. He was livid and right back and forth with me. Like we went at it for, you know, 30 seconds or so in the dugout. And finally we, you know, kind of got it, the ground settled and whatnot. That to me though, like we had a mutual respect for each other and we still do to this day. And I think that I was able to see how competitive he was as an individual and how much that that helped our team out over the course of a 72 game season when competitiveness can kind of get lost. And it made me appreciate how competitive an athlete he is. And I'll probably end up having him on this podcast at some point. But I think a lot of times cultures that are really good, people miss that there's a lot of tough moments and tough, you know, scenes throughout a game within a dugout that people don't actually see. Can you touch on, you know, maybe not as specific, maybe it is, but just touch on that. Yeah. I think there's several incidents like that that have happened, you know, over the years for me, but I think life is just a series of moments, good and bad. And we talk about that a lot in our program and, you know, moments, great moments, you know, weddings, the birth of children, big wins, walk-off wins. You know, I guess there's one that I would say, and I tell you this only for just to try to explain what I'm talking about. We had two years ago, we were at home, Robby Sturzma is up. His dad is our head football coach. He was on the student panel that hired me. I've known Robby since the day that he was born and watched him as a young boy come up through the ranks. And we're playing trying at home. And it just so happened to be that it was a milestone for me, potentially. And we're in extra innings and Robby had been struggling. It was his freshman year and we had nobody left to hit. It was the Saturday before Easter. I remember it like it was yesterday. Robby hit, we had a runner at third base. Robby hit the 2-2 pitch about 440 feet for a two-run walk-off home run. It was our senior day for our COVID kids and for our next kids, for the current seniors. And that was an example of a positive moment that you just can't write a script for. And, you know, tears start coming down your face and you're like, this is the most incredible thing that's ever happened. And then you have moments, like you talked about, where kids are competitive. They sometimes question what you're doing in terms of coaching. I've had kids come in and say, hey, we need to practice harder or we need to practice less hard. So all of those things you try to listen to, evaluate, and then make a plan from that. But moments, good, bad, family moments, you know, you can't go through a season right now without dealing with some type of family moment. And the closer your kids are together and the more love that's shown to that person that's going through that, I just think the easier it is for them to carry on and to still be productive within your program. So again, I'm not sure I got exactly to what you asked, but yeah, just lots of things where I, and the other part that's hard is when you know you're wrong. And I will, different than I used to be, I will own when I'm wrong with our kids, in front of our kids, branching off again. But I think one of the truest characteristics of being a leader is allowing yourself to be vulnerable. And I think for kids to see you being vulnerable, sharing your feelings, admitting when you're wrong, I think that just increases the bond that you have between your coaching staff and your players. You talk about being vulnerable, and I don't say this for any reason to pat myself on the back by any means, but I think it's just a good story for myself to have learned from in the moment. And then also maybe for other people that may go through a situation that's kind of like this. So in 2018, before I went to Traverse City, I managed the Battle Creek Bombers in the northeast league as well. And it was August, our team got off to, all my teams get off to bad starts, I don't know why, but we all get off to bad starts, and then hopefully by the end of the year, we're playing better baseball, and that's what you want anyways, is as coaches, is play your best baseball late. And so we were in the middle of like a, it was a double digit win streak. I think we were at 12, 13 game win streak, something like that. And we were starting to make a playoff push, and we weren't expected to be in the playoffs at all. And in mid-June or late-June, we won a game that was like, I don't know, 19-7. I had a pitching violation. We got our win taken away from us in a 12-run blowout, and I actually used one of our leverage arms that day, and he was a violation, because I had gotten him hot. And I'm like, well, he's already hot. He pitched yesterday. We aren't going to throw him tomorrow now, because that'd be three days on the mound in a row. So I'm like, we'll just throw him in in this eighth inning, because it was like one of those eight-run innings that really spread open the lead. So I'm like, let's just throw him anyways. That pitching violation cost us a win. And online, it had our record rung on the Northwoods League website the entire season. And so in the back of my mind, I was still thinking, like, maybe our record is what it says online. So I finally found out the answer as we started getting close to a playoff push. And I had to stand in front of our team in the middle of a win streak and tell them our road just got a lot harder, because we only had probably four or five games left, and we were two games back maybe, I think, at that point. And I was cringing, feeling like I had to tell our guys that. And they all responded really well. And I still have a lot of great relationships with players from that team. And we're so competitive as coaches, and we want that for our guys as well. But like you said, being vulnerable and being willing to admit our mistakes in the long run enables people to know what they can expect from us. That they're going to get trust, they're going to get integrity, they're going to get loyalty, and they're also going to get vulnerability with all that as well. So I just, again, I don't share that for any other reason, except I just think it's, you know, like you said, just being vulnerable as a coach can help those series of moments, like you talked about, just mesh together and make a difference within the culture. So one other note that I, not quite at the end, but one thing I was thinking about. So for players, your view on players, this is something I meant to ask you when I asked you first. Do you appreciate players that are more willing or more wanting as an athlete? Hmm, I'm not sure I've thought of it that way. I guess, you know, without thinking about it for very long, I would say probably more willing. Willing to give the very best that they had to give each day, willing to move maybe in the batting order, willing to take a day off, willing to sit on the bench, willing to motivate, willing to, and this is from my good friend, Pat Murphy, who's the softball coach at Alabama, willing to show just vicarious joy for a teammate. So, you know, if you're not the guy and somebody else is playing your spot, be willing, be willing to support them. And then, you know, on the flip side of that, you want kids to want it. You want them to want it, and you want them to work hard, and you want them to build trust amongst the guys in the weight room and that kind of stuff. But I guess, as I talk through this, it's the willing part. Be willing to set your ego aside. Be willing to be intellectually and socially aware. Be willing to have some feel. Amongst our culture and in our dugout, and then I say this all the time, allow yourself to be loved. I think sometimes kids don't understand what that means. They come from this big program or whatever, and they come in, and we tell our kids to speak less and listen more when they get into the program. But allow yourself to be loved. And gain the trust. So I think that's probably more willing than it is wanting. It's funny, because it is a balance. I had a coach ask me that. I won't mention their name on the podcast here for other reasons. But yeah, I just was kind of curious your thoughts, because I think it is a balance of both, because you kind of hit on both a little bit. Obviously, having players that are really willing, and it's almost the will to want as well, I think, is part of it. And I kind of just thought about that here in the moment. But the willing to want to be great, the willing to want to have your team success, the willing to help your team success individually. So I think it's probably a little bit of both, just kind of in terms of our status of the individual player. But I think players that want it as well. I think about your senior class, like Evan Mayday, Sean Hoy, Brant Kim. I'm going to miss a few, but those were three guys that I had the opportunity to coach last year. I know all three of those guys want it. I remember talking to Evan and him going back to you guys as a graduate and getting another degree on top of what he already had. I was just kind of curious and picking his brain. He's like, we haven't finished the deal while I've been there, and I want to finish the deal. I thought that that was so cool that a player wanted to win so bad. But you take a guy like Evan that wants it so bad, he's also so willing to give whatever he needs to to have the team be successful. So I don't know if you can touch on a player. Obviously, Evan's a great example, but a player that has both how much value that that brings to a program. Because I'm going to ask some players in the future what they want out of coaches. Maybe not willing or wanting, but I just think it's good for us as coaches to have perspective on what players want and for players to know what coaches want from other programs. So yeah, if you can touch on that. Well, I think I'd miss if I didn't mention Sean Hoy and Brand Kim. You know, Sean Hoy, West Iowa kid, I've known him basically his whole life. And his senior year, his fifth year, he comes back as well, goes 9-0 and is a dominant number one, lockdown number one, where you just know that he's going to win when he pitches. And I think that his will to improve and to get better both mentally and physically turned into a want that he just, you know, wasn't going to give in. And Brand Kim was a leader in that, one of our best players, but always willing to bring kids with him. Sometimes you have your best players that aren't willing to bring kids along. They're going to get their work in. They're going to do it, you know, within the confines of their time, where when you get great players that are willing to bring people with them, I think that's really what separates the great ones. And yeah, I think you probably hit it when you said the will to want, but you also would get kids that will talk about how bad they want it, but not provide you with any will. And those are the hard ones, because I guess for me, I talk as cheap and that's a cliche, but it is. You can talk about how bad you want something, but if you're not willing to dig in and show the way or find the way, then the want is irrelevant in my opinion. Gold. Gold. I love that. That's awesome. To finish up, one other topic. So I've just kind of been doing a little bit of prep. I listened to your podcast with Jack Warren a while back. That one I think I listened to a few years ago, but I think you've done a couple since then and I had a chance to just kind of listen to him as I've been walking and whatnot. One of the things that you mentioned was that you live life forward, but you understand it backwards. Holy cow. Yeah. And that quote, it just kind of resonated with me and I'm like, man, it just makes so much sense and it's such a simple way to think about it. Can you dive into that and why that makes such an impact in your own mind? You know, I probably heard that from someone somewhere along the line, but I guess I liken that to the recruiting process a little bit. We're at a D3 Christian institution where I'm trying to sell our product at a pretty high price. And oftentimes we'll get kids that think they're scholarship kids or want to go to a higher level. And I think, you know, in terms of baseball, that's where it sticks in my mind where we live our life forward, but we understand it backwards. I can't count the number of kids that have told me the exact same thing. You treat them with respect. You wish them the best as they go on their way. And then all of a sudden you start to understand how it really works. And maybe you go back to what you thought you didn't want in the first place is what you really do want. But take baseball out of it. I think it applies to daily life too with just how we go about our day-to-day business, how we treat people, how we want to be treated in return. And I just think about 35 years in education and where I was when I started. I still have a long ways to go, Reeves. Don't get me wrong. But we do understand. We understand what truly matters after we've already tried to go forward where we thought we knew it and we really didn't. And I would say this as well. You know, being at Hope for 30 years, probably in my 15th year halfway through this, I thought I was, I thought I knew everything. And now when you get to this point, you realize that you really don't know very much. One of the things that I say jokingly with our kids is wisdom will pass intelligence every single day. So if I can't figure out how to get my AirPods hooked up with Bluetooth, they're going to help me with that. So they're more intellectual than I am with certain things. But the wisdom part, you know, I just think experiential stuff and stories that we have to tell. And I could go on and on about that. But I love to tell the story, the story of coaching, the story of relationships, the story of transformational experiences. You know, when we talk about the recruiting process at Hope, the two things that I hope that every single young man gets from our program are to have this place change their life from the time they get here till the time they leave and to establish relationships that will last forever. And I talked about those relationships being relationships that time and miles can't come between. You do it, I do it. We will not have seen a college friend for 20 years. And it's instantaneous how quickly you pick up where you left off and away you go. That's my hope for our kids. I love that. And a quick example of living life forward and understanding it backwards from my own experiences. So when I was in high school, I went on a college visit. I had a baseball tournament down in Florida. And we had some family friends down there that worked at Clearwater Christian College. And one of them was the pitching coach there. And they came to watch one of my games. And Ron Edson, him and his wife are phenomenal people. They basically became my parents down there when I lived in Florida. And he was my head coach my first year there. He ended up making that transition for a year and then just kind of retired from the game after my first year. But they took me on a college visit. And I remember going back to the hotel that night after they dropped me off. And I said, I will never end up at Clearwater Christian College. It's not the spot for me. It didn't feel like home. It's not where I want to be. If I go to a small college, I'm going to go closer to home, which I did. I went to Adrian my freshman year. I don't know if you ever knew that. I did know that. I don't remember it, but I did know that. Well, you don't remember it because I didn't play. I was on the 08 World Series team, and I had two appearances that year. So we had a lot of better talented arms in front of me, rightfully so. But I was like, if I'm going to go to a small college, I'm going to stay closer to home. So after my freshman year, I just kind of felt like making that transition was the right thing to do. I ended up down at Clearwater. And in the moment, I'm thinking, this is the right thing now. And now really looking at it, I ended up getting my first coaching job there at 22 years old. I got the head coaching job right after I graduated. And now looking back, I'm so grateful for God putting me in that situation, even though I've won more games at Adrian my freshman year in one year than my last three years of college baseball combined. But looking back on it, I would have never had probably the coaching opportunity I did right away. So I think that's probably why that quote kind of resonated with me. I just think about that situation a lot in my life and how grateful I am that even though I missed out on a lot of really great experiences I would have had with Craig and his program there at Adrian my final three years, how much it kind of has started to set me up in the coaching realm. So yeah, I think about that a lot. So go ahead. I just think too, without going too deep into this, my dad passed away September 2, 1994. It was our second year in Holland. And devastating. He was my best friend. But to go on to the statement, you live your life forward, but you understand it backwards. It's so interesting the lessons that I learned from him and how I apply them now in my coaching with the kids that are within my care. You don't oftentimes think about that, but you wonder what God's plans are and you question them sometimes. That for sure has made me a better coach and a better dad all at the same time. So I think that plays right into how we live forward, but we understand things at a later date. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. And I won't take up any more of your time here, but Stu, you've done phenomenal. And I'm really excited to get this one out to the audience and have them hear from your mindset and picking your brain. So really looking forward to following you guys again this year. And when people think of Hope Baseball, they think of Stu Fritz, whether you like it or not. You've been there for three decades, so you've had a lot of success. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on Reeves. Most of the time when you do things like this, you ask really good questions and it makes me think about why we do what we do. And I probably gain more, way more from this than anybody that might be listening to it. So I appreciate you having me on. Yeah. And that's honestly one of the reasons why I started this whole podcast in the first place is because I, like you said, I learned so much sometimes just by asking questions, but also obviously learning from you and the other guests that are on and whatnot. It's just, it's such a great learning thing and it really does make us think deeply about why we do what we do. And if we don't have a reason for it, then it's not a good reason. It's not necessarily the money, is it Reeves? No, it ain't. You could ask my wife. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. So, well, thanks Stu. Appreciate it. And we'll be catching up soon. Thanks a lot. All right. Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of the Unparalleled Performance Podcast. And if you enjoyed it, please share with those around you. We'll see you next week and go dominate your day.