On The Record: Rogers Stevens (Blind Melon) on creating 'No Rain'

Greg Prato interviews Roger Stevens from Blind Melon and Town & Stevens. They discuss Roger's new project called Town & Stevens, where he sings lead vocals and also engineers and produces the record. Roger shares his love for his guitars, including a chambered body Les Paul and Fender Vintage reissues. He also talks about the guitar he played in the No Rain video, which was smashed by Shannon Hoon. Roger shows his Martin CEO7 acoustic guitar and a 1967 Gibson 12-string. They discuss the continued interest in Shannon Hoon and the timeless quality of his music. Roger plays the riff and solo from No Rain on his Les Paul. I love this guitar. It has a chambered body, so it's kind of light. I always played strats, but I wanted them, I guess, maybe to sound more like a Les Paul, somehow. And so I ended up just getting a Les Paul, and I did it. Hey, this is Greg Prato with Ultimate Guitar. And for my first ever interview for Ultimate Guitar, I have Roger Stevens from Blind Melon and also Town & Stevens. Rogers, how are you? I'm pretty good. Greg, how are you doing? It's great to see you. Pretty good. Yeah, we've definitely chatted quite a bit over the years, and here we are again. Yeah, yeah. We even chatted just for no reason. And from what I understand, besides Blind Melon, you have a new project called Town & Stevens, which you also sing lead vocals on. If you want to talk a little bit about that project, that would be good to start with. Right. Well, this is a record that I did with Nathan Town, who plays bass in Blind Melon, and also is a sort of multi-instrumentalist classical guitar player. He's far beyond me in terms of those skills, and so it's been a great collaboration. But I never sang before, so I had to learn how to do that. And I've never engineered or produced a record on my own before, so I had to figure that out. And so I did it pretty much in this room, bought gear and whatever, and learned how to use it on this record. And it kind of surprised me. You know, I mean, I didn't really think... If you would have told me that I would have pulled it off three years ago, I would have done a scam. I see some guitars. Do you want to show us some of your guitars that you use? Yeah. Well, that's the number one baby right there, the Les Paul. Can you hold up and show us? Yeah, yeah. This is a... And this is sort of recent, you know. This is a 2008 Les Paul Classic that Gibson so very generously gave me. I mean, it's like, it's a, you know, it's not like a... It's not a custom shop, Gibson. Noted, by the way. But I love this guitar. It has a chambered body, so it's kind of light. You know, I always played Strats. And from the beginning of Blind Melon and even like back in high school. But I wanted them, I guess, maybe to sound more like a Les Paul somehow. And so I ended up just getting a Les Paul and I did it. And, you know, I love the way this thing plays. I mean, I find this to be a very inspiring guitar. I mean, I went to the factory in Memphis, I believe. And I walked, you know, down the line. I was like, I just kind of picked a few of these up and they were painted the same and they looked the same. And I was like, A, B, A, B. The light, you know, how does it resonate? And I just did that really quickly. Right. I feel very fortunate to have it. So then I have, you know, mostly I played Strats. That's a... I have two of these, I'll show you here. I have two of these like Fender Vintage reissues. Okay. And both of these are from the early 80s. And I think, you know, people who freak out about this stuff will tell you that, you know, Fender started really nailing it around the early 80s, going back and sort of re, you know, associating themselves with the very first, you know, really great Fender Strats and Teles and all that. And so like this, you know, both of these are 57 reissues. I've had a 62 reissue, which is what I played on the No Rain song recording and also on tour until Shannon smashed it and threw it out into the crowd at Redding. I was actually going to ask if you could explain to us what happened to the guitar that you played in the No Rain video. It was, I mean, it's really, I guess from his perspective, I can kind of understand. But from my perspective, it was a devastating loss because what happened was I was, we were playing in front of that, you know, sort of big crowd. And, you know, the jack, the input jack that you plug the cable into started cutting in and out. And so I just kind of took it, you know, which you can do with a Strat. You just kind of toss it over there. And so, you know, over by the answer, I had another one. I had a backup, right? And so I picked that up and I was playing it. And somehow Shannon took that as a signal that that guitar was done. And before I could even like move towards him, he had picked it up, run to the center of the stage with it, smashed it and threw it out into the crowd. And so I, the last I ever saw of it, it was like disappearing over the top, like it looked like, you know, when people were crowd surfing and then they were eventually sort of get to the edge and they were gone. Right. Devoured, but it looked like that. You know, I don't know what happened to it. Right. But I've played that for the whole first tour and on the entire first record. So. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any other guitars you want to show us? I saw that there was a nice acoustic guitar behind you. Yeah. This is a, this is my number one acoustic baby. This is a Martin CEO7. And I just love this guitar. It's a small sort of parlor sized guitar. It's not a big, you know, dreadnought. I mean, you know, it's really, I don't know much about Martin guitars or whatever. I just heard they were great. I never, you know, I never could, would ever spent that much money on one. But I ended up getting this one through Martin. And I love it. I mean, I wrote every song on the town. Steve has a record on this guitar and it's all over that record. It just sounds like, you know, it's super punchy. You know, it's like. So I have that one. A recent find is this, which is a, this is a 1967 Gibson something or another. And somebody will know other than me. It's actually in there, but I can't see it. Yeah, something, yeah, right. I know what this is, but it's like an LG1 or LG2 as I understand it, except it's the 12 string version. It's really, it's like, you know, it's that. Great sounding. It has this weird sort of trapeze bridge. I don't know what you call these. I'm not an expert. Okay. But, and this is all, you know, wooden bridge here. Right. I'd never, I've never on the 12 string. So the very next recording that I release is going to have this all over it. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I'd be loving this thing. Right. I mean, I'll put it here. Okay. I got a bunch of other guitars over there, but you know, some of them are embarrassing. I guess before you just talked about Shannon and it seems like over the past 10 or 15 years, there's like all new interest in Shannon with the two books, A Devil on One Shoulder and also the book just titled Shannon. Also Danny Clinch's All I Can Say film. Why do you think there continues to be so much interest in Shannon? I mean, look, honestly, I don't have a ton of insight into that, I guess. I'm kind of, I don't know. I don't see a lot of things, but I did see those books and I did see the film and all of which I was so, I don't know, made me feel all the feels all over again because Shannon was a, he was just a real raw, sort of open, personal, you know, beautiful soul. You know, I think that came out in the music and that sort of thing is timeless. It's impervious to trends, will always be. I mean, their recordings now, I mean, I don't know, like, you know, about, I don't know if we've reached, you know, like that kind of greatness or whatever, but you can think of songs, you know, that just are never going to go away. And No Rain is probably always going to be around. I mean, I don't think, I mean, the rest of our recordings, I don't know because they weren't like popular hits on that level. It's hard for me to say, you know, because I'll be the guy who hears the one song that somebody had a hit with in the 1960s and I'll think, I bet they have a bunch of other good songs and then I'll go find them out. And you just mentioned the song No Rain. Would you be able to show us a little bit of No Rain on the guitar, maybe the riff and maybe the solo, if you don't mind? Why, I just so happen to always be ready to do that, Grant. Ah, very nice. I played it, I played it recently at a, at a show. Okay. And it's freaking hard, you know? I just, you know, it's been a while. So, but like the, you know, the main, if I do the main sort of part, I've got a dimmer on this light here. Can you hear that hum? A little bit. That's fine. See, don't tell, look, don't tell Gibson, but I, you know, I think these are P90s I've replaced. I replace everything on these guitars. I replace the bridge. It's a Callaham bridge. Okay. And I put them on every single guitar, Fender, Gibson, that I get. I mean, it's one of the few things that I've ever used and I really noticed a difference. I was like, wow, that made this thing ring like a Steinway. And then Lenny Fralin, I put Lenny Fralin pickups in all my guitars because I just, I feel like he's sitting there whining them by hand. So what I ended up with is sort of a half-assed custom shop Les Paul here. I find a good piece of wood and then I make it my own. Nice. So, I mean, and you know, I didn't play this song, record this song on a Les Paul, so it's a little, you know, beefier sounding. But, but it's been. That's not beefy. That sucks. So that's sort of the main riff. And then you kind of go into the verse. The way I think about the guitar always in every situation is, and music in general, in terms of theory is, I just find the major scale that works. And then I just base everything I do in a song off of that. It's just less stuff to remember. Music theory is really confusing, true. I'm playing in what I think is an E major scale. I've come to find out reading magazines like Ultimate Guitar and whatever that's a mode that I don't really, I'm not really aware that I'm in that mode. Right. I think of it as like, I'm trying to make, you know, the sound of the music or something, or the theme from Sesame Street. And, you know, they just kind of sound like that. So, but it's, so the solo is like this. Play it a little slower so people can like figure it out. I didn't do that last part right. That's not exactly what I do, but I kind of mess that up every time. But the point being is, in that last part, actually, I don't think I'm in the E major scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. I think I'm in the E minor scale. Something like, you know. Something like, you know. Yeah, that solo, when you recorded that, when you recorded that, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, when you recorded that solo, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, which was, you know, I just took the solo off of that. Right. And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, And it was, It's this. It's an Ibanez, something or another, analog delay. And you know, I think guitar players know this trick is, you know, if you've been, if you ever mess with one of these for a while, you might accidentally do it the first time and regret it. But, you can turn the delay volume all the way up, and turn the feedback repeats, meaning how many times it goes, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. You can turn that up. You know, you can make that go once, bop, bop. You can make it go twice, bop, bop, bop. And, so, you just get the tempo right with the song, and then, you hit the guitar once, but you set it to infinity. And what would you say are the most fun songs to play live with Blind Melon on guitar? I'll tell you, you know, we've been doing that song at live shows, and we never did it before. I think maybe we played it once. Swallowed, you're talking about, right? Yeah, with Shannon. Maybe. I mean, we did it when we were recording it. But, I don't know if we ever did it live, but we've done it with Travis, and he sings it great, and it just, you know, I don't know, it's just really fun. It's like a, you know, for five minutes with a heavy metal band that I wanted to be, Greg. That no one would let me be. Right. As you mentioned Blind Melon, I'm just curious, what is the current status of Blind Melon? Are you guys going to be playing live again soon, or what's the status? You know, the pandemic sort of threw us, everybody for a loop, you know, as you know, but we can't blame that anymore. So I don't really know. We're kind of in those discussions now, seeing where everybody's head's at. I mean, honestly, I'm doing, I'm making another record now, and I really don't know. I'll always play shows that Blind Melon wants to play shows. You know, but for me, my number one focus is, is recording new songs. That's the only reason I do this, but really, I mean, I like playing live shows as like sort of a fringe benefit of that process, but there's no reason for me to do this unless I'm making something new, but that's all I care about. Are there plans to play live with Town & Stephens? Yes, there are. Okay. Yeah. People should check out the site, I would imagine, to see any kind of updates, right? Well, I mean, yeah, we have the album on. I mean, every now and then we'll mention something on the Blind Melon social media sites, where, but I'm new to all that. I just, like, we just started a social media site on like Instagram, Facebook, and I never had one before. So, I mean, I had one for a long time, or a long time ago, like just personally with, you know, with, for, you know, with friends, now I have friends. And, I never been on there before. And, so I'm trying to figure all that out. Right. Okay. You know me. I'm not a Luddite. I just, I'm preoccupied with other stuff. Right. Well, speaking of which, people may not know, you have a very interesting profession besides music, right? If you want to talk a little about that. I mean, yeah, I went to law school. I do, I mean, I've been, you know, I've been a lawyer, you know, for 10 years. And, it's just like a whole other part of my brain. But, you know, I made this record, I made this record, in this room, like, throughout the pandemic, you know, and I was working, long hours, like that. Right. In a day, you know, the professional sets. And then I was in here at night, in solitude. So, I'm, you know, emotionally possessed. Something. Delusions of grandeur, or something, I don't know. Right. But I, you know, I want, I just want to make records, you know, and I feel like I didn't get to make, Right. You know, the records that I, well, I just made when I set out, on this path. So, I'm just trying to fix that. What type of, law is it? Because I know there's different types of law. What type of law do you practice? Well, I'm like, I'm working in the technology sector now, Bray. Okay. You know, just, I'm in-house. I'm not doing, I was doing federal court litigation. But, basically. And, yeah, it's not, you know, I'm kind of, it's like a whole other, side of my head. I can turn around, and talk to you from the other side, but. How does the songwriting compare, or differ, with Blind Melon, and also Town and Stevens? I mean, it's entirely different. It's all me, you know, I, you know, and I'm writing all of the, most, I mean, I'm writing a lot of the vocals, on this record, and lyrics. And Nate, wrote, you know, he had, he had, the vocals, and, the music for, for, he had three songs, basically. And then we sort of, co-wrote, a, a really long song, I think that's at the end of the record. And that was one of the ones that was, I was like, man, this is something. We had a really good, collaboration on that. And, and I'll say this, you're, it's, it's, this is ultimately a guitar magazine, you're kind of being the wrong dude, in Town and Stevens. Because, I mean, you've seen Nate play. I mean, he's, I've been around, a lot of great guitar players, and I've been around a lot, around a lot of great musicians, but he's, you know, he's, he's as good as I've ever seen. So, I don't know, he blows me away all the time. If anybody looks him up, they'll see, like, don't, you know, this record, he does amazing things. And, but, but, you know, just him with a guitar, he will absolutely stun you. Okay. And, I don't know, I mean, Rennie Lopez playing drums, and I'm always, you know, really, love playing with Rennie, and I just love his, his, his drumming. So, he's, he's a songwriter. So he plays the drums, like he's a songwriter. You know, and I understand that you enjoy the Ultimate Guitar app. Is that true? Yeah. It's, I mean, honestly, I was telling you this before, is that I, I learned to sing with that app. And I always, I have to, I get the big, huge iPad, right? And I have it on there. And, I basically, I don't look at tablature. You know, the, the song that you can look up on here, they have, you know, they'll have it, colloquial, have multiple versions, and, and users can like, submit their like, corrections. And I always look through them, if there's a song that, I want to learn, but like, I don't, I just look at the, the, the Cowboy Chords, and the, and the, and the, and the lyrics. And I, I sing songs from memory. Like, like I have, I have 500 songs saved on here. From the beginning of like, you know, I can play Bam on the Run, from beginning to end, on that piece of guitar now, because of this app. I can play like, I have, you know, Bell Bottom Blues, and I just go like, and I, you know, I don't do like the exact recording, you know? But like, a lot, you know, a lot of the, you know, if you've heard a song enough, you can just, you can just, you know, just kind of wing it. I don't get them perfect, but like, you know, that, that one, perfect. So like, you know, they give you the chords, and the lyrics, and then I just, I sat on my porch, and drove my neighbors crazy. I mean, I'm not kidding. For, throughout the pandemic, I sat out there every day, for like two, three hours, and I just like, I just sang, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, and I recorded myself, a lot of it is physicality, and I know what I want it to sound like, and I know where the pitch should be, and all that stuff, you just gotta find it in your own body. But this app, every single day, still, I'm out there on the porch, or in this room, and my list of songs is insane. I saved the playlist, so I have, this is my main playlist. If I look on this page, I have a bunch of weird shit, like, I have Sister Golden Hair by America, next to Slip, Slide, and Away by Paul Simon, Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills, and Nash, and I just go through, and I could do Stairway to Heaven from beginning to end. Not just that opening, remember when you were a kid, everybody could play the beginning of Stairway to Heaven. Right. But, I don't know. I figured out, I never learned other people's songs before, ever. We wrote songs in Blimella, and I just figured it out, and I didn't really know, and that's why they sound so weird. I went through the can on this app. I got everything from, all of Red Headed Stranger. And a lot of the user interpretations are really good. The stuff that people submit. Obviously, high-level players out there that use it, too. So, I don't know. I don't know that much about it. I bought this app years ago, and I've just been using it and using it, and I built it up, and I know I do one thing with it. They have a bunch of lessons and stuff that I don't. I just look at the songs, but they have all of, it has a tuner if you want that stuff, but I don't, I just look at the songs in my playlist. And this last question I have, are there any other projects or any other future things you have on the horizon? Well, not really, because I don't have time to start any more projects. Greg, to be honest, I'm helping some friends out with a mix right now. I'm trying to, I've got this studio. I've got a console in here now that this phone is sitting on top of, and I got real gear, so I'm trying to learn how to use it a little better in terms of recording. I got a piano. I got a drum kit. So right now, Nate and I are recording a record. We're gonna try to release that before the end of the year, though. Great, so my name is Greg Pareto with Ultimate Guitar, and I was interviewing Roger Stevens from Blind Melon. Thank you for watching. You