Dr. Margo Jacquot Episode 1

The transcription is a conversation where Dr. Margot Jacot discusses her successful career as a psychologist and entrepreneur. She talks about owning a large mental health practice, winning awards for entrepreneurship, and the importance of taking risks. She shares advice for women leaders to not be afraid of risk and to trust themselves. Dr. Jacot also mentions receiving unhelpful advice from her father, encouraging women not to stay small or dependent. She emphasizes the need to question where advice comes from and not let fear hold you back. This is a test. We're the best testers ever. Drill lasers in coffee. Puh, puh. Puh, puh, pucora. Okay, I'm just going to start talking right now. Is that working? Ooh, it looks like it is. Is it working? Is it worth it? Let me work it. I won't finish that. But, you know, things like, for things. Oh my gosh, yeah. We will for sure edit that out. So we just, how close do you get to your mic when you, because you are. Pretty darn. Yeah, so we want to get pretty darn. Let's get pretty darn. Pretty darn. Okay, alright. Get all these wiggles out and the movement, right? It's happening. Oh my gosh. Look at that. Wow. What? Is it incriminating? It's happening, boom. No, it's not, it's just like. Should I, you want me to put the computer down? No, okay. It's fine. I was just aware of like blasting your microphone off the table. Oh, no, don't worry about that. It's better that way. Episode one, take seven. No, not really, take seven. All the generations are represented right now. Oh my goodness, we have Dr. Margot Jacot here today. Welcome. Thank you. Yes, welcome, and we wanted to take a moment just to talk about like how we know Margot. I like that. How do we know you? How do we know each other? So we're all psychologists. We know each other from our work with the Illinois Psychological Association. And Margot has really been an influence on me in terms of leadership as a professional in private practice, because Margot heads up one of the largest private practices in Chicagoland, and I think the nation. Is that right? Privately owned by one person, yes. Wow. Damn. But wait, you've got the statistics because I don't even think I said them correctly. Let's try this again. Let's see, Dr. Jacot, she owns one of the largest therapist-owned mental health practices in the country. Does that sound right? I don't know if it's in the country. Definitely in Illinois. Well, there's a good chance it is. It's in the country. It's in the country, so. And perhaps the world. We will fact check this later at a later time. Add it out, perhaps. You got it. No, leave it in. No, we'll add it in. So tell us about you. About me? Well, first of all, thank you for having me here. What a delight. So happy to have you. To be your first guest. What an honor. And two women who I adore and whom I've had the joy of watching as leaders yourselves. So about me. So, yes, I'm the owner and CEO and director of the Juniper Center, which is one of the largest practices. And I'm going to brag on myself. Please. That's what we want. That's what we're here for. Because women, as we know, ladies, we do not brag on ourselves enough. So I'm going to brag on myself a little bit because I want us all to do that. Perfect. You're the perfect first guest. Wonderful. So the practice and I have won several awards. And the awards have mostly been in entrepreneurship. So from ‑‑ this is where editing comes in. The Chicago Business Journal, I think, was 2016. 2017 was a Stevie Award for women entrepreneurs with businesses from 11 to 2,500 employees. Wow. It was stunning. It's like my little Oscar. It was wonderful. You know, big ceremony. I love that for you. Right? It was wonderful. We've won two Inc. 5000 fastest growing business, been named to create a Chicago business for entrepreneurship. So just thank goodness, very, very fortunate over and over and over again to have these kinds of opportunities to, you know, certainly I appreciate it and I'm going to, as I said, I'm going to brag on it for myself. But it also helps me highlight my team. So when I did my acceptance speech for the Stevie Award, I kid you not, I'm, you know, like sitting five miles back and had to run up to the front and had prepared nothing because I was positive I wasn't going to win anything. And on the plane out there, maybe I should prepare ‑‑ oh, I'm not going to ‑‑ anyway. But it was ‑‑ what came to me, the first thing that came to me was all of the women who had stood next to me. I didn't have women behind me. I didn't have women under me. I had all these amazing women next to me. And that was how I envisioned our team and I still do, even though there's men. But I still do. It's all sort of, you know, kind of standing side by side. So that is my business, which is wonderful. I'm also ‑‑ I think of myself as an entrepreneur. When somebody asks what do you do, I'm a psychologist, but I'm an entrepreneur. I am a consultant. I do consulting with business owners all over the country. That's really fun. I'm an author with a book in process. Hasn't gotten there yet, but I have a contract with a company, a publisher that has picked it up. Yep, we're buying copies. Well, you don't have to buy them. Maybe if you're good, I'll give you a couple of copies. And I'm a speaker and then I do governance for our state psychological association. So lots of wonderful opportunities to meet other women who are amazing. So this was delightful to be invited here. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I feel like you're overqualified to sit in that seat, but we appreciate you. What was she thinking? Anyway. I know. Thanks for letting me sit here. And when you were honored for entrepreneurship, what did that mean? Like, how did they define it and what were you honored for? Yeah, so entrepreneurship is, you know, so the two of you could technically be entrepreneurs, right, because you own your own business, so that's small business ownership, right? Yeah. Entrepreneurship, I think, is typically thought of as also being someone who employs people and the official definition says, and you assume a large amount of risk. Oh, funny. Which, whenever we start hiring people, as we know right away, we assume a large amount of risk. So entrepreneurship is that. Having a business, employing people, and assuming a fair amount of risk for the business. And risk, from where I sit, is something that women can be afraid of and that we have to get much better at dancing with. And why? Why do you think that? Because we don't get anywhere without it. Because, you know, a lot of the business decisions, or I don't think any decisions, but a lot of business decisions require us to not think too much and to just jump, right? I think effective entrepreneurs or business owners are super nimble. We make decisions quickly. We don't overthink. We don't get mired in the weeds, right? We move. So being able to do that, I think, is critical. Definitely. And so you've been honored as a risk taker and somebody who assumes a lot of liability. Indeed, right. Yes, right. You don't make it sound quite as glamorous, but that's exactly right. We'll stick with entrepreneurship. Yes, that is right. Let's see where we are. I think that's you. Okay, so Margo, considering all of that, what's the one piece of advice that you have to share to other women leaders? I feel like you kind of just said don't be afraid of risk, but you can elaborate on that or you can think of something else. Well, I think that's a big one. Don't be afraid of risk and don't be afraid to act. Follow your heart. Follow what's important to you. Leap. Jump as high as you can. So I would say that would be a big one. And again, my window into this is a lot of these women that I am doing business consultation for. And almost universally, fear holds them back. And I can see it. I can see the next thing they need to do when they think I'm just being a smarty pants. I can see it. They can't do it because they're afraid. So if we can trust ourselves and get out of our own darn way, we're going to be able to get where we want to go. So the piece of advice is take the leap. Don't get mired in your fear. Have you ever gotten any feedback that wasn't helpful to you or any consultation guidance that you would not pass along to other women who are hoping to be entrepreneurs like you? Yes, quite a bit. Do tell. Well, so, you know, one piece of advice, and I was thinking about this earlier today, actually. This was bad advice. And, you know, is it advice? How do we learn about who we are? Is it okay to be big? Is it okay to take risks? You know, do we have to stay small? And I remember when I first started my practice, and I was salty about this for a long time, my father said to me, so when your business fails, not if, when your business fails, you come to Daddy. And I walked out of his house. I will not repeat what I said under my breath. I have the wisdom to not say it to him. He was still a lot bigger than I was. And it took me, I kid you not, decades to realize that it was his fear that I was going to get too big and I was going to not need him anymore. That was it. And so we get told, stay small, stay dependent. So we'll need them, whoever they are, right? So that, I don't know if that counts as advice. That was horrible advice. When things fail, which how many times have we been told one way or another as women, you have to stay small, don't go too far, you know, make sure that you don't take risks that are unnecessary, and so people don't move. Well, perhaps it's just asking yourself, where does that advice, where did it come from, and whose bullshit comes with it? Well, exactly. And it was his, right? He was afraid. So in that moment, how did you find the strength to take the leap, or like where was your heart leading you so that you could do that and not, and tell him off or whatever, but not feel that fear? Well, you know, one could say, I don't have a lot of sense sometimes. But I like to think of it as that I trust myself. And I don't quite know where, well, no, that's not true. I do know where that came from, actually. I'll just take all the credit for it. But my mother on the other end of the spectrum came from this little itty-bitty town in Kansas. She wanted to go to college. Nobody in her family went to college. She just went, just did it. She worked like two or three jobs, went to college, did her thing. She wanted to be an actress, so she got herself on a train and came to Chicago and didn't know anybody here. She just did it. And so she was very adventurous, really encouraged us to be adventurous. And fortunately, she got herself kind of trapped in this very traditional marriage. But a lot of the messages were go do, go and be. And so that, I'm sure, from just like amniotic fluid on, was the encouragement and the rocket fuel for me to go and do that. I'll tell you, I mean, she died young. It has been, in part, my gift to her, was to go and to do and to be big and to accomplish the things she just didn't get to. Wow. That is so beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, she was an amazing human. Sounds like she was even more than a role model, but what a good role model. Yeah, yeah, and it took me a while to tease that apart. I think for folks who are listening, to your point, right, going back and doing that work, and it's easy to say as a psychologist, you know, please come and see all of us. But the idea is understanding where we got those messages because none of this was super apparent. You have to go back and sort of sift through a lot of rubble to get to that point and to say, oh, he wasn't being an ass. He was afraid. Oh, okay. You got yourself into this trap of a traditional marriage that you really didn't like very much, but you gave us all these little messages about go and do. So really being able to pick that out and sift through that is mission critical. Yeah, so she really propelled you into the universe of entrepreneurship, huh? She did. Yes. So where are we now? Okay, so Margo, we wanted to know if there were any interesting experiences working with women along the way that were of note. Yeah, I'm going to tell you one from the beginning of my career and one from last year. So that spans a few decades. So when I was trying to, I had graduated with a bachelor's degree in psychology, and what does one do with that? Well, I went and worked at a private psychiatric hospital for a low minimum wage, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was joyous. So I remember speaking to the head of the social work department, and I was thinking, what should I do? Should I become a psychologist? Should I become a social worker? What route should I take? And she said, her name was Marsha Knudson. I will never forget. I can't say it, but I'll never forget it. She said, go where the power is. Go where the choices are. What did that mean? That meant to be a social worker, you would always be answering to somebody else. To be a psychologist, you would be the doctor. She said, go be the doctor. Wild. Which was amazing, because at that point, I thought what the social workers did was really cool, but she was talking about don't limit yourself. She said if she had it to do over again, she would have made a different choice. So I went all the way, as they said in Jerry Maguire. I'm feeling like your story is a story of great role models. What's the most recent one, though? Yeah, this was just last year. So, you know, I have the real pleasure of feeling at times a bit like a big fish, right, in the pond around here. And I went to the, I belonged to an organization called the Women's President's Organization, and it's women who, it's across the country, and you have to have a certain, you know, you have to have like a million dollar threshold. You cannot be a part of the organization if you don't have a million dollars in revenue. And that was in the rear view mirror several years ago for us. I was like, look at us go. Show me the money. Right, show me the money, right? I'm just saying I'm seeing what Jerry Maguire. Exactly, that's right. Exactly. Well done. Thank you. Dr. Brown. Well done. So I, you know, went to this, I'd never been to this conference before, but I knew the women in my group. I mean, we don't like show our bank accounts or anything, but I kind of know from the jobs that they have, you know, they're huge. And that I don't find to be intimidating. It feels inspiring to me. So anyway, I went to this convention, and they honor the 50, I think it's, I don't know if it's the 50 fastest growing, or the 50 women to, I should know this because I belong to this organization, whatever. There's 50 people that they honor. These women have these multi-million dollar businesses. One woman was on the stage. She had a billion dollar business. And they had just scaled it, just took it from nothing and scaled it to multi-millions, like tens of millions to billions. And I sat in that audience and I had a moment like, what am I doing here? Oh my gosh. And I thought, all right, so, I can be jealous shmelless. I can feel like I don't belong. I can get jealous or I can get busy. And I decided I'm going to get busy. And so I set new goals for myself and started mapping out what I would need to do and what the business would need to do to get there. And that's what I've been doing. Are you telling me that you have a billion dollar business? I will. I don't know. There's nothing stopping her. I do not have a billion dollar business. I mean, you know, in health care, good luck to us. But we are, we eclipsed what we had hoped we would this last year. Excellent. Congratulations. Thank you. That's so exciting. And I feel like you're also telling us about your goals. Right. Right. You need to have a financial goal. And it sounds like you kind of took what could have been jealousy and morphed that into being inspired by these women. Exactly. Exactly. Or I could have just felt like I don't belong. I'm too little. That was not going to happen. And the goal is financial for sure. I mean, you know, we all have to be okay with making money. There's nothing wrong with doing business and doing it ethically and giving good care to people and making some money for yourself. Absolutely. There's nothing, which, again, women can, especially in health care, it's like, wow, what's the matter with you? I can't tell you how many times people have said that to me about expanding my practice and my business. Like, wow, why are we getting so big? Is it greed? You don't have enough money yet? Wow. Like, would you say that to a man? No. Never in a million years. No. Not at all. Okay. So, yes, do I want more? I'm going to be honest. I'll be honest. Yes, I do. But I can also do more. So we started a not-for-profit, which I really wanted to do. But you have to have money to do that. It doesn't take $50,000 to start a not-for-profit. Where's that going to come from? Right. Right. So you have to have the money to do the things you want to do. So we can also do the good we want to do and do more of it. And we can get that car we want. Amazing. Tell me about the not-for-profit. So this has been a goal for a long time because we would get calls. You know, I'm sure it happens to all of us. It happens to all of us where, you know, you get a call from somebody and they'll say, but I have Medicaid. And you think, oh, my gosh, my two pro bono spots because I have bills, too, are already full. I'm sorry, I can't take you. Or, you know, whatever else the call is about. They have the wrong insurance. They have no money. And it just would break my heart sometimes because we keep track of all of those calls. And I'd meet with my access team and they'd say, well, we got this call and that call and the other call and we can't take them. There's nowhere to send them. They have children. The woman's crying on the phone. She doesn't know where to send her children. And I thought, enough of that. Enough. I can't take it. I don't like that. So I was trying to figure out how we could start a not-for-profit, and I realized I needed startup capital. I've never taken on a partner. I do not have an investor. I don't want it. I want to make the decisions myself. I don't want somebody else with another agenda in the driver's seat. That's it. So I got a team together at work, consulted with several people who told me I couldn't do it, can't do it from a tax perspective, you're a for-profit, you can't own a not-for-profit, all the reasons I can't do it. And I said, yes, I will. So I found a way to do it. And we started a not-for-profit arm that serves people who are those people who either have Medicaid or some insurance that we don't take or they have no money or nothing at all. They have no insurance of any kind. And we use really well-trained interns who are trained in a DEI model. Yes, DEI, folks, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Very pro-DEI here. Trailblazers and coffee. That's the only reason I'm here. You two are the reason I'm here. So we use some of our fully licensed clinicians, but also we have people who are interns who are being trained in how to provide this kind of work. Because most graduate schools don't train us in how to work with people who have no resources. So it's some case management and it's therapy as well. And it's amazing. So we have a counter now that we're doing, because it has to be proof of concept. We've gotten some donations now from some decent-sized donors. Decent-sized donations from donors. And to get donations, you have to have proof of concept, right? So now we have a counter of how many dollars worth of services have been given for people for free. So that's what we're trying to count at this point. So right now we have five interns, we have five people on the board who are seeing people, and I think at this point we've served probably 70 people, 75 people, and given them free therapy. And these are people who just wouldn't have had it otherwise. This is amazing. That's delightful to me. So if we can get those donors who would give us the money to really make this thing take off, I have big visions for that too. We'll make sure that we connect our listeners with you so they can donate. Wonderful. Please do, folks. Five bucks. We just said, people, five bucks goes a long way. Definitely. Wow. This is incredible, and I'm so inspired. But I'm also very curious. So I had this moment earlier last year where I was thinking about my professional goals and realizing that I had hit them all. Congratulations. Thank you. That's amazing. Thank you so much. This isn't about me, though, but you, I feel like you at some point in your life have maybe been in the same position. How do you set bigger goals once you achieve the smaller ones? What a great question. It is a really great question. That's a really good question. And it's not even on our list here. I'm impressed. That's a good question. I'm not one whoever has a shortage of ideas. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I have to have some discipline about what I will let myself do, and I have people around me who will rein me in because I am the queen of ideas. But it takes money and time and other resources and people, and I have to have all of those things. So once we reach something like the not-for-profit, up and running, going, that plate's spinning, I've stepped back. Other people are now doing that. In practice, pretty much I'm not involved in day-to-day operations anymore. Those plates are all spinning. I meet with this group, I meet with this group, I advise this group, and on I go. And then I have my clients and I have my consultation stuff that I do. So once I do that, there is this little itch. It's this entrepreneurial wild hair of other things I want to do. And so at this point in my life, I'm trying to decide what is the next thing. Oh, that's so exciting. Please keep us posted. I will. We'll have to do another episode on this. Yeah, season two. Yes, absolutely. Season two. Okay, so we're going to ask you one more question, and then we have a little surprise for you. Of course, because here at Trailblazers in Coffee, we like surprises. In addition to some really cool swag that we gave her. It is cool swag, folks. If you can get on this podcast, please do. You will be impressed. It will be available for purchase before you know it. No, I'm kidding. Okay, so this is one question. Oh, no, you are going to sell it on TinyURL. For sure. Please go to TinyURL. It's not out there yet. I don't want to advertise. Keep an eye out, folks, on TinyURL. You will get their swag. Fantastic. Thank you. See, everyone, everybody needs a teaching moment of how to market yourself. Don't be afraid. We're going to ask one question to everyone, and this will be a familiar question to you as a therapist. What's one thing that we haven't asked you that you are dying to talk about or that you really think women leaders out there need to know from you? All right, this is going to require some editing. Yeah, that's fine. Great. So be competitive. Okay, we're so in. Okay, explain. Elaborate. Be competitive. Women are not allowed, generally speaking. Maybe you can run track in high school, but we're not really allowed to be competitive as adults, and we should be, right? So I think of competitive not as I am going to knock you out of the way. It's I see where you're going. I'm going to follow you. I'm going to compete with you. I'm not going to quit. I'm not going to sit in this room of women and think I'm too small. I'm going to get my ass in gear, and I'm going to do the next thing. I'm competing against me, right? But I'm going to follow you. I'm going to find those women who are doing the amazing things that I want to do, and I'm going to follow them. I'm going to figure a different way to do it, a way that works for me, something that's important to me. So run with those big dogs and beat them to the goal. I love this so much. Wow. Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad that we have the surprise that we have for you, because you're so inspirational. Thank you. I really can't wait to tell you about the surprise. Me neither now. It's such a good idea, and it was Christina's idea, but I thought it was so good. As we talked more and more about it, I thought it was my idea. I took it on. I was like, this is so good, and I forgot that it actually came from Christina. This seems to be a theme that happens. You can share the credit. No problem. So what we did is we actually asked some of your employees what makes you a great leader. You're trying to make me cry. Oh, my gosh. Which doesn't happen very often, so, you know, watch out. All right, let's see if we can make the big dog cry. And it was really a wonderful experience to hear from some of the people that you work with. What a brilliant idea. Yes, it was, Christina. So we're going to just read a couple of things and take it in, and then we'll ask you how you feel. I have known Margo for almost 25 years. She is my mentor, and I feel so grateful and blessed to be a part of the Juniper Center family. She is a great leader because she wants all of us to win. This person said that you are the type of leader described in the book Good to Great by Jim Collins. I looked it up, and a level five leader is described as having a powerful mixture of personal humility and indomitable will, ambitious, but it's for the organization first and foremost. So that's quite high praise. Oh, my goodness, that's phenomenal. Oh, this is just the start. Margo is a bold and visionary leader who empowers others to excel both professionally and personally. Margo is one of the great ones. She leads from the heart, and that is apparent in everything she does. Oh, wow. Thank you for asking that. We have more. Oh, my goodness, you're trying to do me in. Margo's primary concern is for her staff always. She hosts biweekly coffee and chat sessions with therapists. She attends our weekly staff meetings. She makes time for one-on-one touch bases with most, if not all, of our team. The fact that she is so connected and accessible is one reason that the Juniper Center has relatively low turnover, roughly a third of the industry average. That's a great statistic. Wow. Margo can always be counted on to do what she says she will do. She takes her commitments very seriously, and on the rare occasion that she cannot accommodate a request or deliver in a timely manner, she is first to take accountability. Is there another one in here that you want to read? There are so many good ones. There are so many good ones. I would love a copy of that. That's amazing. Thank you. Oh, yeah, these are the ones I wanted to read. Okay, good. She's charismatic. She is well-known through the professional community of psychology, and I've heard Margo referred to by her colleagues as legendary, incredible, and a real badass. Got to be a badass. Always. Margo, you are such an inspiration. I'm so glad that you were here today with us, and I'm so glad that people will hear more about your story and what's inspired you so that they can be inspired themselves. What was that like to hear some of those quotes from some anonymous employees? I know, right? I mean, I'm almost speechless, which rarely happens. That means everything to me, right? It's that mirror back. That's exactly what I want to have happen, is that people feel cared about. They feel seen. They feel valued. They feel heard. That is what I want. So I'm giving a talk tomorrow about culture, and it's the mirror, right? It's the mirror of who we are if we're doing it right, if we can hear what people have to say, if we can take that in and do something with it. I love the swag, really, and that, in addition, is just over the top. Amazing, and spending time with the two of you. So thank you. What a lovely, lovely, amazing gift. We're honored to have you. It means the world. I hope that hearing all of this means that you achieved another one of your goals. It does. Yeah, thank you. It does, because I don't ask people, and I should. Yeah. I should. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Margo. Thank you. This was fabulous. Margo, we did it. You did it. All right, we need pop, pop from champagne. I know. I wish we had champagne. I know. I should have brought some. That's a real faux pas. Wow. All right. Well, that would have been a nice way to commemorate. Oh, my gosh.