Ep148mp3

Suzanne Alexander, a financial advisor and life coach, shares her journey from farm life to financial advisor and the importance of exploring the psychology and behavior behind money decisions. Money is a tool for positive outcomes like choice, legacy building, and connection, but it can also lead to fear and resentment if not aligned with personal values. The key is finding harmony between earning money and using it in ways that bring fulfillment and happiness. Welcome to the podcast, Suzanne Alexander. How are you, Suzanne? Yeah. Great to be here. It's such a pleasure to be having a chat with you today. Yeah. I'm wrapped to be having a chat. I know we've probably not really chatted that often but I certainly see your content and your posts regularly and I'm a big fan. Fantastic. Thanks for coming on for a chat to talk about money and happiness. I think even that alone, that topic, was something that I'd seen your post about and I really resonated with that article so it's going to be great to unpack that. But before we do that, I'd love you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. Yeah. Sure. So my background is I grew up on a farm at Napa Orchard and then I really have a love for adventure. So in my early 20s, I lived overseas for about three years and then I came back and reality hit and the reality was I either needed to sort myself out with regard to finances or find someone to do that and I took the approach of I'll learn about finances myself. Yeah. And started down the long journey of studying and eventually became a financial advisor. And it was whilst I was a financial advisor that I had quite a few reflections back to myself with regard to why we operate with money, why do we do what we do with money and so it started the exploration into more of the psychology side of money, the behavioral insight side of money and that led on to a journey into life coaching and financial coaching and money coaching and obviously where I am today which is my business Mindful Finances. That's cool. I think a few other money coaches that I've spoken to as well, I think that they've gone through a similar process. So in some ways I think it's like I sort of look at money coaches as you've gone deeper and deeper through that into the really in-depth aspects of what makes us do certain things with money. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I always talk about wealth is really an inner journey and a lot of it has to do with being open to exploring some deep work and unpacking some things that come up and if you think about it, the way that we operate in life, we have a thought and then that thought becomes a belief over time if it's repeated and then we attach either an emotion or feeling and it's really starting to tune in to those emotions and feelings like they're really the feedback, the conversation that you're tuning into and they're giving us real time feedback in terms of what do maybe we need to go in and explore because ultimately they influence our habits, our behaviors and the results that we're really achieving especially from wealth but it can be in any area of our life whether it's health or relationships, it all comes back to the same framework. Do you think that, could you simplify this as easy as this, is I heard a great saying recently which might have been in relation to challenges in life and that sort of thing and it basically said at each juncture you get to, you can either step up to that challenge or choose not to step up either way, there'll be a consequence of that and even in what you've just explained there like if you're happy with the emotion or if you're happy with that then embrace it and if you're not happy with it, step up and tackle it. It's a bit like that, isn't it? Without a doubt and one of the things that I see is that we are essentially human beings that have choice, we are awareness and we have choice and the awareness is really an invitation to what that choice is that you're going to make and for some people they'll choose to stay in a place of comfort and that comfort could even be something that's really not serving them. So they might be sabotaging them, unfortunately they might be in harm's way but there's a choice that we're making now that's obviously influenced by various factors and then the other flip side to that is we get to choose to either move forward and you talk about that juncture and I love that with regard to the decision-making framework which is if you're not making decisions, you're not moving but at least with decisions and actually taking the action, you're getting real-time feedback again and that feedback could be no, this isn't the direction you're meant to be on, that's fine, we'll just get back on to the other pathway, detour but we don't know that, we can't get that feedback without actually taking those steps to move forward. Taking it, yeah, deliberate steps. Yeah. I agree. That's great. Well, I think why I was keen to sort of chat to you about this is exactly what we've probably just touched on there, bringing some reality to our listeners and what you just talked about there is that reality. Yeah. You and I chatted about the fact that with what we do, we get to go behind the scenes in people's lives and look at their dynamics and their financials and you, well even we do talk about emotions, probably not to the depth that you do. In your experience, what do you think wealth brings to the table? I mean it's in some ways a bit of an overused word as a ticket to happiness I think but it does bring positives but it can bring negatives. So what are your thoughts there? Yeah. And look, as you mentioned, it is a real honor for us that we do have that privilege to be able to be really invited in to explore someone's world of finances because it's highly emotional. Now money is not emotional, it's just the emotions, the meaning that we give to it that makes it highly emotional but for a lot of people, it's a conversation that no one wants to have which is why I'm so grateful that you have these conversations but when we look at it through the lens of what are the positives or what are the supportive aspects of wealth, a lot of that comes back to choice. So your choice to be able to invest in health, choice to be able to, I love adventure and travel so invest in travel and have experiences. It's your ability to build legacy for future generations or maybe you want to be able to donate and contribute to charities and I've worked with clients over the years that have less significant funds to charities because that's what they had a huge passion for. So money is really that conduit, the tool in which we can have these positive influences and outcomes but we just use money as a tool and so that's where it comes back in. So if you think of it from an energetic point of view, it's very expansive. They're very much expansive and usually it comes with a different set of emotions depending on what's influenced that but when you've met that basic level of wealth in terms of meeting your core needs and if we go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you mentioned that food, shelter, water but also if you take it to another level, it also gives us the tools to be able to connect with each other and contribute whether it's financially or time or just being able to be a part of something and as human beings, we are really naturally wired to have connection with everyone. We want that. Yeah, we want it. Absolutely and so when you don't have that, we flip to the other side which is more that challenging behavior which is you go into a place of fear and scarcity of lack, of disconnection. It becomes energetically contraction if you think of like squeezing a ball or squeezing the hand towel at the sink. It's all about how do you feel, are you feeling more expansive which is more positive and supportive aspects that money provides in your life or is it more constrictive. We can come through from a lens where people can be generating good amounts of income but what happens is they might actually go into that constrictive frame by actually putting everyone ahead of themselves. They might just listening to something this morning and someone was saying that they took a loan out for $35,000 to help a friend out but in actual fact, what came with that was a lot of resentment and a lot of challenge because now she was stuck with a loan and she'd actually put someone else's needs ahead of her own. So it's really starting to understand that there's sometimes a lot of undue pressure and a lot of lack of trust when there's a lack of funds or wealth around it but going back into that more expansive energy of having money there, it really comes back to freedom of choice. Well and when you were sort of describing those different areas, you sort of think of that as like multi-dimensional. Quite often I think do you see this where someone might earn more income but maybe their time is taken up earning that income and so even though they've got more income, they don't develop those dimensions that you touched on there about contributing or whatever. They're just earning still and it's just a one-dimensional treadmill. Yeah and this comes back into more of the challenging, the contractive side because when we're just driven by money, that can often turn into – now I'm going to preface this. It's not bad to be driven by money but when it becomes your entire life and it's all about what you can show to the world in terms of what belongings and things that you have, what can happen is we can lean into greed and so you talk about earning lots of money but not being able to really start to spread a lot of that and a lot of that comes back into not maybe being clear on what their values are and for me, a lot of the work we do is really starting to help individuals explore what lights you up, like what's your values in life because when you can start to align how you spend or you invest your money with regard to your values, then this is where we come back into that expansive aspect. Yeah. Yeah. So it's right. It's a harmony sort of thing, isn't it? It is a beautiful harmony and that's the thing. So it's not always about the money. You can earn a lot of money and have an abundance of wealth and if you're aligned to those values and you're spending in areas that make you feel good and happy and you're contributing, then it can definitely have a big impact with regard to that harmony that you feel. Yeah, that's great. I think I challenged you to say what you might see as the utopia version if we could design the ideal situation where money and happiness and that harmony is all working together. Describe that for us because I think quite often I imagine I talk about this stuff a lot, you talk about this stuff a lot. So I think in our heads, we craft the vision of what it all looks like but for people that are just sort of listening to this going, well, where am I with this? What do you think it does look like? Yeah. I guess one of the things that drives me is that there is a real harmony, that freedom of choice with regard to money that if we can come back to our true nature of understanding what our values are but really coming back to community, connection, collaboration, the three Cs, then what we start to do is we actually start to really look at money through the lens of how can we support not only ourselves because it's a face mask analogy when you're on a plane. Put the face mask on first and then you can help others. So we always want to start with ourselves and then, okay, well, how can we help others? This is where wealth is multidimensional. It is about contribution. It is about investing for the future. But the reality is a lot of that needs to start not only in the home environment, in the school environment, in our communities having these conversations because the more that we can normalize what is true wealth, I think on social media, we can definitely walk what that looks like. In some aspects, it's great because it shows you what is possible but there's also a fine line between wealth and abundance and then I would say almost waste where people have almost come into a position that money just doesn't have that connection. I was listening to a conversation by Simon Cowell, the UK presenter on Who's Got Talent and he was saying, look, I've been poor and I've not been in a great position. I've been poor and I've been really happy and then I've been really wealthy and I've been really happy and I've been really wealthy and I've actually been really unhappy. He goes, the reality that comes back to being in alignment to who I am and part of that is yes, understanding my values, what am I here in this world to do and how can I contribute. It's really foundational that a lot of the work that you write, many coaches are doing is really helping people to come back and understand what does success, what does wealth mean to you. For them. Yeah and not focusing so much on the external. The external is nearly an enhancement of what you want to be feeling internally. Yeah. Hence, then it's a version that is different for everyone, right? Absolutely. Isn't it? Yeah. My theory is that wealth is unique to everyone. Everyone that I speak to has a different version of what success means to them or what wealth means to them. Some people can live off literally small amounts of money because that's how they're happy. Yeah. They're more happy internally and as long as they've got those core needs met of connection and security and safety and food, water, shelter, they're happy and then yet someone else's level of wealth will be, well I have to have at least $100,000 a year and I need to be able to travel every year overseas and that's where this uniqueness comes in. Yeah. I'm sure that you say that all the time with clients. Oh, for sure. I think as well that I'm glad that you sort of touched on the community and helping others because I think quite often when you see people at all different stages of life, when they're trying to build for themselves and feel like I've got my own life under control, but then there's the, once they get to that point and they're sort of like, well I have got my own life under control and I'm feeling like I can have the life that I want to have, then it turns to their family and their kids and wanting to make sure that they're playing a role there. So it is really important, I think, we know that as humans we get a great deal from being connected with others and playing a role, not just with ourselves. So I think a lot of what you described earlier about wealth for the sake of wealth, that is more about self, isn't it? Then that better version or multidimensional version is expanding out into connecting with others, I guess. Yeah. One of the words I'll use is self-wealth because when we can come back into our own in terms of who we are, then you can really start to step into feeling abundant. That's at the core because if you think about what are those things that make you happy, like really make you happy and you delve into that, a lot of the time it doesn't have a lot to do with external things. Like it could be just being with family or friends or a partner or being out in nature or playing with a pet, whatever it is that really aligns to you. It's the, I guess, the incidental things, things that you go and spend money on that become subsidiary to that. So it's really that inner wealth first and that's where unpacking that becomes really integral. I found that for myself and that's really what has brought me into doing the work that I do because I identified that my own money story wasn't overly supporting me and then I was witnessing that with clients. It was like, okay, well, I'm one of those people that I will often go first and then work out whether it works or not. So I've been a test dummy for many years, happy to be one, and I just keep going deeper and deeper. There's always layers there and the more that you lean into it, the happier you become purely because it's almost like you are peeling layers back and really starting to come back and realize what does true wealth mean to you. One of the things I think for me fundamentally is I actually not aligned to the middle and upper approach but it's more focusing on do I really need that? Yeah, it's a challenge. It is a good challenge and part of it is driven by the fact that if I had to get up and go and I wanted to jump on a flight tomorrow, what do I need to sort of organize? I think when you've got that approach and you become less attached to things, then what comes back into it is that you don't feel pulled by different metrics. Yes, you're going to be pulled by connections from family or friends that are putting boundaries in place but oftentimes when I speak to people, they actually have a really strong attachment to items that really if it comes down to the big question, is that really bringing you happiness? Yeah, does it deserve them and often it doesn't. I had this moment recently where I went to my wardrobe to try and ... It's just too cluttered and when I was actually standing there just looking at it and just eyeballing all the things that are in there, it would not be a joke. Now, I wouldn't get to the stage where I'd throw out 90% of my clothes but if I actually analysed it and said what do I actually wear in here regularly, you probably could throw out 90%. Yeah. The amount of things that were just in there that I hadn't put on for years or it's just there just in case and you sort of think if you didn't have that sort of approach to it, you'd just go out with most of it. One thing I wanted to just explore with you is you talked earlier about okay, someone was driven by money. I often think sometimes people just by default get sucked into something. They might not see themselves as driven by money and if you ask them, they might say I'm not driven by money but they kept getting the promotions at work. They kept doing a good job. They want to do well by their employer or whatever and they just find themselves in a situation where most of their life is spent working and they're earning really good money but actually their life is not great around that. Do you see a bit of that? Yeah, absolutely and I think there's a bit of a default. We're just supposed to take the promotion. We're just supposed to keep progressing and career advancing and economically, yes, there's a benefit to that in terms of the income. On the other side of that, that's when we need to really explore the mindfulness in terms of where am I investing that money? Where am I actually spending that money? Am I actually taking the holidays with the people that I love or am I having experiences that are balancing off the working side because we can have all work, no play. Fortunately, I've seen events where people have done that and they've gone to retire and suddenly someone passed away and so this is where it's how do you start stepping into – I talk about live your abundant life. How do you start living that now because you can do that even if it's a non-monetary component but more often than not, there is going to be money aligned to your values but how do you start living that now so that it just becomes a natural way of life rather than when I'm living it now and there's cultures especially I think it's Japan. It's not about retiring. It's about finding something that they've got purpose and passion about that they're happy to work for the rest of their life. But in something that's giving them that purpose I agree and that's what I do see a lot of that. I think people – I often say to pay clients in meetings but particularly new clients that 90% of clients when they first come to see us are actually doing better than what they think they are financially. So I think there's a thought process that even though I'm not that happy at work or whatever, I need to keep doing this and quite often you have those moments where you sort of say to people, well, if I told you that you were fine financially, that is a bit scary for them because it's like you now have got a choice how much work you're going to do, whether you're going to stay in that job that you don't like, whether you're going to work for less money doing something you do like. It's not as that easy just to flick that switch and change direction but it is great to explore it. Yeah. And it's one thing that I will speak to my clients because I'm no longer practicing as a financial advisor. Go and see a financial advisor because the reality is you have the capacity to be able to run those numbers and explore what does that really look for them now. And you're right, people are quite often surprised that, okay, I can start reducing my hours at work or I can start integrating holidays or I can start supporting family members. So it's all about getting clear on what it is that lights you up, those values, what brings sort of joy into your life and then backing it with the monetary side, the numbers side so that you can actually make informed decisions. I think it's hard for anyone without having those two numbers in front of them to really make that call because we've been so hardwired as a society that you just need to keep making money because there's so much fear around at the moment. Yeah. I agree. Well when we sat down to have a bit of a chat about coming on and all that sort of thing, I wrote down a couple of words that you said which I really loved. Three simple words, be in charge. Be in charge. So I know we've sort of talked about crafting this and being aligned with your values but that's a bit more directive, isn't it? Saying you need to take control. Yeah. And one of the big things, I grew up in a generation that probably had more of a focus on self-responsibility and living on a farm, it was a matter of getting, do the work and help. Yeah. So for me, a lot of that is coming back to self-trust. So building self-trust, building self-responsibility so that you can be in charge of your life. We are the creators of our life. Every decision that we make, we have had choice and that will be influenced by things. I know I'm aware of that but in general, we all have choice with regard to every decision we make which influences the life and the results that we're achieving now. Now, if you're happy to step into being in charge, that's more about setting appropriate boundaries, getting clear on what it is that you want to achieve in life and for a lot of people that I've been chatting to recently, there's been a real short-term focus rather than longer-term focus. Now, to be in charge, I keep saying this, think of we're in Melbourne at the moment and you want to go to Sydney. Now, if you don't put the GPS, the address in the GPS that you're going to Sydney, you'll probably go via Perth and then back up to Darwin and then down to Sydney. Now, when you start to have a longer-term viewpoint, it gives you the GPS direction so that whatever actions you're taking today and this comes back to what we started talking about which is the actions that we make are really moving us towards that longer-term vision. So it doesn't matter whether it doesn't turn out to be right. It's ultimately progressing us in a direction. Yes, you're heading in that direction. Yes, so for you to be in charge is to really start to explore thinking outside that shorter term. I was listening to Tim Minchin do a graduation speech recently and he goes, look, I don't set goals, long-term goals, not interested in them. He goes, my focus is 100% being in the now and giving 100% to whatever I'm doing. And I'd like to sort of question that. I would like to say that you can do both. You can have a longer-term vision of what you would hope to live or what you would like to live and then start to really take action with the passion of 100%. And as long as that brings joy, then that won't be that burden. It won't be that constrictive energy or be more expansive because you know you're always moving forward. Yes, I sort of feel like you can have those longer-term things that pull you but it doesn't have to be locked in stone. It's a direction. I like the way you said that direction. It's just heading in that direction and you're going to evolve and you're going to craft things as you go, aren't you? Yes. Or change your mind. And that's okay. And I think the other side to that is also starting to tune in to say, well, am I creating a life that someone else has created for me? Now whether that's a partner, whether that's family or friends that you're witnessing on social media. Employer. Even your employer as well, especially if you've got to travel with work. But it's really starting to come back to are you prepared to do, especially if you're in roles that take more effort or require you to spend more time or work harder. Is there a time approach that you're looking at? I used to work in investment banking and a lot of the investment bankers wouldn't go beyond that early 30s stage. Part of that was burnout but part of it was I'm going to go hard for 10 years, set myself up and then I'm going to move into something that I really am passionate about and I can leverage off what I've built up. Right. Yeah. And maybe they started family from that life. I wouldn't have been okay. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Anything else you'd like to add to that, Suzanne? Yeah. I think one of the things we lose sight of is that, again, starting to question some of the things that come to us. So often we have these beliefs that are influenced by society or culture or family upbringing and it's really starting to question one, is it true and is this serving me? Because it goes back to what we were just talking about before. Our wealth journey, what we see as success is really independent to our particular circumstances and the life we want to lead. And if you're in a couple, one of the big ones that I see is what do you want to achieve individually and then what do you want to achieve combined? Because for some people, you might be in a relationship, one party loves to travel, the other party doesn't. Quite common. It is quite common and so it's really starting to explore and go, great. Okay, well, what are you passionate about? But also being there as a support network. So being – one of the things I sort of embrace and I share with clients is be your biggest cheerleader. So on this journey, just be your biggest cheerleader so that you keep moving forward but also checking in with yourself, checking in with your relationship with money and is it providing you with more expansive energy, emotions around joy, happiness, love, excitement, all of that? Or is it really starting to feel quite suffocating and constraining, more of that constrictive? And the more that you tune into those more emotions and feelings, they really can support you to navigate how you make decisions and how you lead more in your life and what conversations that you have, what choices that you're making and then taking ownership of the results that you're getting out of this. Yeah. I think what's so good about what you've talked about is really that for money to play its role in the best possible way, all the work you've got to do is away from the money about what really – what you're about and what's going to bring happiness to you. And once you're clear on that, you know where to apply the money. Yeah. Absolutely. Or those decisions around money. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. You're just using money as the tool it is. The tool. Yeah. So when you're using it in a way that it supports you, it's going to make you feel better. Okay, I love to go to concerts or go to the theatre or whatever it is that you're wanting to experience. If you're able to use money to leverage and enjoy those experiences, then it's going to bring enjoyment for you to be able to earn that money as well. Thank you, Suzanne. That's been – what a great half an hour there, just chatting about that. I think that all the concepts, I mean it's just obvious that you do this each and every day and have these conversations. Probably in a lot of ways, even though there's unique circumstances for everyone, the overall situations are not unique. We're all sort of trying to craft this out for ourselves, aren't we? Before we do finish up, I would love you just to mention your business and if people wanted to reach out to you, how would they do that? Yeah, sure. So my business is Mindful Financial. So I support professional women to really explore their relationship with money. So building out their money story, reframing what that might look like and also helping them to build out solid financial foundation. So you can follow me on Instagram, mindful underscore finances. I'm Suzanne Alexander on Facebook or LinkedIn or the website is mindfulfinances.com.au. Well, I can vouch for the fact that your content is so good. I read and watch things constantly. So that's great. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on. You're welcome. It's been wonderful to spend time with you. I'll chat soon. Thanks. Take care.