Ep 41 Grisson Mansion & Masonic Childrens Home

The Curious Cousins podcast discusses the Grisso Mansion in Oklahoma. The mansion was built by wealthy oilman Doc Grisso in the 1920s. However, there are rumors of dark secrets surrounding Grisso, including allegations of murder and deception to gain wealth. Some believe that the money from the oil boom is cursed. The Seminole Nation purchased the mansion to tell the full history of the impact of the oil boom on the Seminole people. Hi, I'm Jess and I'm Tiff and we're your Curious Cousins, where we talk about everything kooky and spooky in the state of Oklahoma. Welcome to episode 41. Welcome. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I am good. How much news today? Yeah. I got a little news. Well, this doesn't have to do with the podcast, but we did find out my brother and his family are officially going to be leaving on the 23rd. I'm a little bummed about that, but excited for him. We're super excited, but we're sad we don't get to see them before they leave. Exactly. But I do have some corrections. Oh, okay. So on the Isaac Parker episode, I think I said that he was born in 1833. He was not. He was born October 15th, 1838. Oh, okay. And my older brother, James, shout out to James, he was kind enough to text me, I think it was like last week, and he said that he had listened to our episode on Patrick Henry Sherrill and we had talked about, we didn't know the difference between an honorable discharge and honorable conditions discharge. And he said a discharge under honorable conditions is an honorable discharge. And then I said, is there a difference or is it just another way to say honorable discharge? He said, it's the official way to say it, so there's not a difference. Thank you, James. Thank you, James. Yes. So that's all I got. He was probably like, I can't believe you didn't ask your dad to, but whatever. He was probably like, I can't believe you didn't ask your dad to, but whatever. Well, you know, sometimes you just don't think. I know. Yeah. Exactly. Well, this week's a paranormal. It is. Paranormal's like my favorite. I don't know why. I just, I like to be creeped out. I don't know why. Don't ask me to watch like scary movies or horror movies. But I love a good thriller book. Yeah, I can do a thriller book. Especially if it has like one of those endings that I didn't see coming. Completely throws you for a loop. Oh, yeah. But yeah. Like, I like the book. Have you read the book Verity by Kathleen Hoover? I don't think so. Oh my gosh. You've got to read it. You would love it. You would love it. Well, I always think of what's it called? Woman in the Window. Uh-huh. Oh my gosh. I think it's A.J. Finn or something like that. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Amy, correct us. B.A. Paris is one of my favorite. And oh my gosh. Remember when I had you read Where the Crawdads Sing? Yes. I love that book. I love it too. It's a good book. I made my mom read it. And the movie was so good too. It really was. It really was. Okay. Well, this isn't book talk. Right. I know. This is. We're bookies if no one knew. But if you would like for us to do a book talk podcast, then that's your suggestion. We'd love to do one. Ooh. That's a good idea. Maybe there should be a Patreon episode or something. Oh. I don't know. I like the way you think. Okay. I did add a new book to our wish list, our podcast wish list. I didn't see what it was, but I saw that. Oh. Cold Case Confidential. Ooh. And it's like the 20 most popular cold cases, I think. Oh, interesting. I don't know when it was copyrighted. I need to look into that. But I think it's got one of the 20 most popular cold cases or most infamous, maybe not popular. That might be a poor word for it, but infamous. Awesome. So I thought that would be a good book for us to look into. Yeah. For sure. Paranormal. Spooky Wooky. What you got for us? All right. Okay. So I am covering the Grisso Mansion. Grisso sounds kind of spooky. Now, I had never heard of this mansion before. Okay. Until maybe sometime late last year, maybe. And I had listened to Eerie Okie, had covered it on one of their podcast episodes. Okay. And I thought, oh, well, that sounds interesting. Yeah. So anyway, that's what we're going to talk about today. Ooh. Okay. I'm excited. Okay. So today's questions are Z94.com, QuirkyDrivenLife.com, OnlyInYourState.com, Haunted Oklahoma, Ghosts and Strange Phenomena of the Sooner State by the one and only Jeff Provine. Hey. And I also watched a YouTube video. It was about a 45-minute video called The Grisso Mansion, and it was made by Native Boy Productions. I highly recommend watching that. It was very interesting. I think those Native Boy... I think they also have a podcast. Oh, do they? I'm pretty positive that they have a podcast. I feel like, ooh, maybe last fall, right when we were getting into podcasting and really kind of... They had a live show, I think, at one of the Tulsa library, the Tulsa City County Library. Oh, interesting. We'll have to look it up. Yeah. I'm pretty positive that they did, but yes, they sound very familiar. I think they're the same people. Yeah. And I think it was kind of... It's kind of like a... It's a YouTube channel. Yeah. I think it said this one in particular was episode four. Uh-huh. So... Well, maybe they're not the same. But if they are... I don't think they could be for sure. They could just have started their YouTube. Yeah. So those are my sources. The Grisso Mansion is located at 612 East Wrangler Boulevard, Seminole, Oklahoma, 74868. Seminole. Yeah. So a little bit of background. Well, we'll talk about the man behind the mansion first. So the Grisso Mansion is located at 612 East Wrangler Boulevard, Seminole, Oklahoma, 74868. So a little bit of background. So the Grisso Mansion is located at 612 East Wrangler Boulevard, Seminole, Oklahoma, 74868. So a little bit of background. Now, I will say, finding information on Doc Grisso and just the mansion in general, it was like pulling teeth. Huh. There's not a lot out there, but more than some, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. But... So anyway, let's just get right into it. Are you missing something? Is there a pen over there? A pen? Yeah. There's an orange one. Yeah. I'm going to write down the address of this. Okay. Sorry. Continue. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So William Edward Doc Grisso was born on January 8th, 1874 in, I believe it's Vidette, Arkansas. Okay. If that's not how you say it, I apologize. He was the oldest out of four children. There's a little bit of conflicting information. One source said that Grisso's father died when he was 14 years old, but on findagrave.com, it says his father died in 1893, which that would have made Grisso 19 years old at the time. Okay. So either way, Grisso was still a young man when his father passed away, leaving him the provider of his mother and his three younger siblings. Okay. So in 1903, he and his family moved from Arkansas to Tidmore Indian Territory, which eventually became a part of Seminole, Oklahoma. So interesting fact. I was like, I've never really heard of Tidmore, so I kind of looked it up, and there was this picture of a 1906 schoolhouse picture, like where the teacher and the children are sitting in front of it. And guess who the teacher was? Who? His sister. Oh. So she was the teacher of the Tidmore schoolhouse. Oh, wow. Anyway, I thought that was interesting. Yeah. So one source said that he balanced lessons and work going to medical school but not finishing because he was offered a position to serve as the doctor for the Seminole Mission in Indian Territory. After a few years, he brought in a new doctor to kind of just like replace him, and that way he could focus on his work on his pharmacy that he had in town. He owned and operated the pharmacy, the Seminole Drug Company, and it was said to have been the only store in Seminole for five years. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And it said that he worked mostly in barter, not very often handling money unless shipping something to, say, Oklahoma City. So just keep that in the front of your mind, that little tidbit that he mostly used barter or credit in his drugstore. In 1909, he married Margaret Maggie Rooker, described as a, quote, red-headed, freckle-faced, outgoing young woman that he likely met through the post office at Tecumseh. A couple of sources mentioned that he had been married previously to an Olive Dixon, but she passed away after childbirth, and their daughter also had passed away at just ten months old. Oh, man. Now, I don't know if that's true, but we'll get into it later, but some say the Olive Dixon might not be the name. Oh, okay. But anyway, just kind of remember her, though. Okay, okay. There's lots of things you need to remember. Okay. Christo and Maggie would have five children together. It was also said that he acted as a medical examiner as well in town, so not only did he own the pharmacy, but he was the medical examiner. Oh. Mm-hmm. Well, you know. I mean, they kind of go hand in hand, but... Yeah. So in 1923 and 1924, that's when oil was first discovered in Seminole, and when this happened, then the town of Seminole went from having a population of about 845 people to nearly 30,000 almost overnight. Doc Christo and many others began obtaining land and mineral deeds and land purchases, which then would make them, you know, very, very wealthy men, you know. Christo's granddaughter, Susan Garland, who wrote about the family's history, she said that Christo, quote, regarded land as the basis of wealth, and this viewpoint influenced his behavior in almost every endeavor, end quote. Because the land in the Seminole Nation had been allotted, the Seminoles couldn't sell that land if there was a homestead, and however, if the land had been inherited, they could sell it. Mm-hmm. According to Christo's granddaughter, Doc knew this fact and kept a close eye on any Seminole lands that could be sold, and she also noted that he was fair in his dealings and that he worked with six interpreters to ensure honesty. However, there were some legal issues with how mineral rights were acquired, especially after the oil boom. One source said that Christo was just drowning in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. So, due to, and this is due to borrowing money to buy all of these land and mineral rights that he could, in addition to sending his sons to school. So, apparently he was in debt before the oil boom. So, in 1923... That's so interesting to think of people buying mineral rights and, like, potentially putting themselves in debt. Right. And now you're like, oh, you own mineral rights. So, I mean, not that, I mean, let's be honest. I know people who have mineral rights and literally, like, every quarter get $25. Yeah. I mean, I think my grandparents on my dad's side had some mineral rights, or like my grandma did. Mm-hmm. And I think they split it up between the siblings when she passed. So, I think now my dad has them. Mm-hmm. But yeah, it's like very little money. Yeah, it's not anything. It's not much of anything. Spectacular. So, yeah. I know it is crazy. In 1923, an oilman, Joe Cromwell from Muskogee, tapped a well nearby and over the next month, then years, oil just gushed out of the ground all over Seminole County. And this would become known as the Greater Seminole Oil Field and became one of the largest in America, producing millions and millions of barrels of oil. So, that debt we talked about that Grisso had? Yeah. He disappeared and all of that land that he procured now created a seemingly infinite amount of money. I can't even imagine. I can't either. He became a very wealthy man. Yeah. So, with his knowledge of how to work with the Seminole tribe, Grisso began collecting rights and leases throughout the county. With this wealth that he gained from oil, he decided he was going to build a house for his wife, Maggie. That's very nice of him. Mm-hmm. A couple of sources said that the construction of the house started in 1926 and was completed in 1928 when the family moved in. Others say that the house was built in 1928. So, whatever you want to take from that. I can build some pictures of it, and I don't imagine that it only took one year for it to be built. I don't either. I think it was 1926. Yeah. It's a beautiful house. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it is. It's façade reminded me of other older homes because it had that very popular yellowish brick. Yeah. Our grandmother lives in Yukon, and there are a lot of older homes there. Even when we went to go and visit the overholster in those neighborhoods, there was that brick. Yeah. It was said that the house was a sight to behold once completed. Like we just said, it's a very beautiful house. I can imagine back in that time what that must have looked like. Yeah. This house, which is called the Grisso Mansion, was a 12,000 square foot house built in the Italian Renaissance architectural style, which I think the filbrick is too, I believe. Okay, so when I first looked at it, I thought, I was like, oh, this looks just like the filbrick, but then I just noticed some differences. But I think you're right. It's built in the same. Yeah. I mean, the filbrick, that's that era of oil. Oh, yeah. So, let's see. Yep. Built in the Italian Renaissance architectural style with a tile roof, elaborate molding, an arched portico, conservatory, and a courtyard using imported Italian marble. It also builds a ballroom, carriage house, servant's quarters, greenhouse, pool, gardens, and a vineyard. But I think a couple of these aren't original to the house. Like, the vineyards, I know they were added later. But, anyway, yeah. So, it sounds like an oil kind of mansion house, like Prairie Mansion, I don't know what you want to call it. Yeah. No, it does. It sounds very typical for Oklahoma oilmen. Right. Yes, exactly. So, that is exactly what I was trying to say, but didn't quite get out. A few of my sources claim that the house had ten bedrooms and ten bathrooms. However, a woman who used to work at the mansion had made a comment on one of these websites and said that there were only four bedrooms and five bathrooms. Other sources say the mansion had 26 rooms. But I think what they meant by that was 26 rooms total. Yes. Bedrooms, bathrooms, living rooms, parlors, that kind of thing. Yes, that was the same at the McBride house. They were like, oh, there's like 25 rooms. Well, that includes every single, literally every single room. Yes. The gristo also had 14 servants to maintain the mansion. In oil's heyday, oil, did I just say oil? Anyway, in oil's heyday, the gristo would bring in famous opera singers for private performances and state governors, which one of the famous people they talked about was Alfalfa Bill. They would come to consult with gristo. Mrs. Gristo was a famed Church of Christ teetotaler, which I had never heard that term before. And so I looked it up. So a teetotaler is a non-drinker, someone who abstains from drinking alcohol. Why they couldn't just say she was against drinking alcohol in the first place, I don't know. Anyway, she didn't allow alcohol at her get-togethers. I don't even think she liked it, having it in the house. However, it was rumored around town that Doc Gristo had some pretty wild parties of his own in the ballroom of the gristo mansion that just so happens to be located in the basement of the house. Oh. No thanks. I was going to say, do you want to go for a dance? Don't care how fun it is. It's a big fat no for me. Doc Gristo died from a stroke at his home. Well, I think he had the stroke at his home. On October 31st, 1955 is when he died. On Halloween? Yes. But I don't think he died in the house. I think he had the stroke, but he did die on Halloween. But he had the stroke, and they got him to the hospital, and he died at the hospital. But he died on Halloween, October 31st, 1955. Maggie Gristo died on October 30th, 1977 at the age of 90. How weird is that? Oh. So Gristo's youngest daughter, Pauline Martin, sold the house sometime in the 1970s. It had several owners since then, but the Seminole Nation decided to purchase the mansion, and I think they purchased that in 2012. Okay. And they did that so that they could tell both sides of the story, because not many people know the impact that the oil boom had on the Seminole people. So some Seminoles became tremendously wealthy, while others lost everything. And they wanted to tell both sides of the story, because it's a shared history between the entire community. So now let's get down to the nitty gritty, the darker side of all this history. Okay. So the video I watched, put on by the Native Boy Productions, interviewed several members of the Seminole Nation. One member, Reverend Kelly Tiger, Jr., also a member of the Seminole Nation, said that Doc Gristo was said to have had a monopoly on oil leases for Seminoles. He knew whose allotments were going to produce oil and whose weren't. He also said that the subject of Doc Gristo has always been an uneasy one with the Seminole people, and this has to do with the wealth that Doc Gristo gained from what people say was from murder and deception. Oh! Right? So, remember that first wife and daughter we kind of talked about? Yeah. That some sources mentioned? Yeah. Well, let me tell you. Some people say that this first wife was a young Seminole woman named Suda, and I apologize if I'm not saying that correctly, and that he married her to gain access to her land allotment. Oh, that does not even surprise me at all. This story becomes more plausible when Suda mysteriously dies several months later under suspicious circumstances. So, some sources included the daughter in that as well, and some didn't mention her at all, just Suda. I wonder if he was friends with one Mr. Hale. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm going to bring that up later. Oh! So, no foul play was recorded in her death, but let's not forget that Doc Gristo was the acting medical examiner of the town. And he is not Native? No. Okay. Okay, okay. With his medical knowledge and owning a drugstore, many believe that Doc Gristo poisoned her to inherit all of the land mineral rights, so he wouldn't have to share any of its fortunes. It was his own word that their lives ended by natural causes, so nothing ever came of it. So, his wife and his daughter both mysteriously die of natural causes? Yeah, he claims that the wife died in childbirth, and it didn't really say. It just said his 10-month-old daughter ended up passing away, but they never really said of what. So, anyway, there's just speculation. But remember, some sources claimed that his first wife's name was Olive Dixon, so I don't know. Interesting. But this is kind of from the Seminole perspective. Okay, okay. Other deaths considered mysterious were believed to be arranged through Gristo's medicine to ensure land became available to buy or lease. Janet Johnson, development officer for the Gristo Mansion and a Seminole tribal member, mentioned that with the oil boom that happened in Seminole and the tremendous wealth that was generated practically overnight, it's easy to imagine some of the more sinister things that would have happened in town and during that time with the different land deals going on. Yeah. So, I mentioned the Gristo family had 14 servants. They weren't hired on. According to Janet Johnson, they were all from the Seminole tribe, and they became servants for Doc Gristo because they owed him money and couldn't pay him. So they worked at the mansion to pay off their debt that they compiled at his drugstore. Because remember, he didn't deal with money. He dealt with barter system. Suspicious, isn't it? That makes me sick. Yep. They were enslaved. Yes. Reverend Kelly Tiger Jr., I mentioned him earlier, his great-grandmother, Louisa Tiger, actually worked for Doc Gristo at the mansion, and the years that she spent there are still unknown. They have no idea how long she actually spent working there. Oh, my gosh. Many of the Seminole people believe, or believe, that the money and the wealth gained from Seminoles owning mineral rights of their allotted land, when the oil boom hit, they believe it's cursed. They believe that any money from this oil boom is cursed money. Well, yeah. Yes. So this, to me, has a similar vibe to the Osage murders. Yeah. This is sounding. So when you mentioned Mr. Hale, I was like, this totally has those vibes. It does. And, you know, of course, that happened in the early 1920s. Well, yeah. You know, with the Native Americans being seen as second-class citizens who couldn't, you know, they had to have handlers and couldn't, you know, do anything for themselves and being murdered over land rights. It couldn't have just happened in Osage County. I have a story. It happened everywhere there was a group of Natives that were on oil fields. Yes. Or oil lands. Yes. I think you're right. I guarantee everywhere. Every tribe probably has a story just like this. Oh, yeah. And honestly, I didn't even know about the Osage murders until I read Killers of the Solar Moon. Yeah. And then I was like, I had no idea that this happened. And then if it happened to them, you know it happened to other tribes as well. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind that it didn't happen to other tribes. Yeah. And I'm not saying that it's the same exact same thing, but, you know, after researching this, like, my mind just immediately went to the Osage murders. I mean, just think of ours. When I talk about Kate Barnard and her finding out that this man had adopted, quote, 250 native children just so he could have their head right. Right. It just makes me sick. It does. And those children were living in squalor, yet they were paying, like, they were receiving money to house these children, and they literally, like, three of them were living in a tree. Right. So, anyway, that's no better than murdering somebody for that. No, absolutely not. Now the spookies. Okay. So, enough with the history. I'm here for that. It is believed that several spirits still call the Crystal Nation home. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. The previous owners, before the Cymbal Nation purchased the property, said that there are things that happened that they can't explain. They don't necessarily, they're not, they didn't necessarily say that they thought it was haunted, that things just happened that they couldn't explain. Hmm. So, I don't think they were ever, like, very freaked out about it. Yeah. Hmm. They just chalked it up to it being an old home. Yeah, and it was, like, you know, things, like, lights being turned on, or things being moved, and I'm like, you don't think it's haunted? Some say that even before coming into the house, visitors, because you used to be able to do ghost tours, so some say that even before coming into the house, visitors would see a woman standing in the window of the master bedroom. It happened so often that the previous owners unplugged the lights in that room to keep from seeing her as they came home. Oh, my gosh. Some believe this is to be Maggie Grisso, and it was her, because it was her favorite room. Yeah. And that was her house, right? Yeah, that was her house. Okay. She loved that house. Many people said that there's this constant feeling of someone watching you intensely, like, things that you constantly feel like you're being watched. I don't like that. When the NAPP, which is the Native American Paranormal Project, stayed the night to do an investigation at the Grisso, they said it felt like someone was watching them all night long. Ooh. In the sitting room, there's a lamp that will turn on by itself, and the video made by the Native Boy Productions, while they're filming, oh, God, this creeped me out so bad. I've got to watch it. I can't wait to watch it now. Yeah, you've got to watch it. So while they're filming, they're talking with some of the workers at the Grisso, and they're talking about this lamp, and they're just saying it'll turn on by itself, and the cameraman walks closer to this lamp, and he asks the workers, does it turn on by itself or turns off, too? And the workers respond with on, and then you hear this, like, I'm getting chills just thinking about it. You hear this whisper that sounds kind of like a woman, and she's like, by itself. Nope. No. And I'm like, oh, my God. I literally have goosebumps right now. Oh, my gosh. So not going to lie, it's super creepy, and it gave me the heebie-jeebies. And I'm just glad. I literally watched this video, which, like I said, is about 45 minutes long, when it was daylight outside, and there was people around me. I won't say that much. The corner where this lamp sits, it's said to be where Doc Grisso liked to sit and read, and paranormal investigators have captured shadows and orbs crossing this space where the lamp is, as well. Reverend Kelly Tiger, Jr. said that on Thanksgiving Day of 1995, he was at his church looking out a window that faced the back of the church, and he saw a little native girl, who people say they have also seen at the Grisso. The most haunted spot in the Grisso Mansion is said to be the ballroom, which is in the basement. It has this weird, like, stage thing set in an alcove. There were rumors saying that clients of Grisso were brought to the ballroom to dazzling jazz-age parties stocked with booze and women for entertainment. Other rumors say that dark rituals took place here to ensure that Grisso's hold on power continued. Now, like I said, these are rumors. Nothing is said that this is what happened. But, anyway, the ballroom is where it is said that Suda resides. I wasn't sure how to word that, but they say that's where she kind of hangs out. EVPs in that room have caught music, heavy breathing, and voices whispering messages like, No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! 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