EP2- FINAL CUT.MP3

Desiree and Stephanie, both licensed therapists, discuss their experience with podcasting and the challenges they faced in finding their groove. They reflect on their serious tone in the first episode and express a desire to be more authentic and relaxed. They then transition to the topic of dating and share their thoughts on being single and the exhaustion that comes with their profession. They discuss how their dating styles differ and how their priorities have shifted, with Stephanie wanting to change her pattern of not caring for long periods of time and Desiree focusing on her personal growth and career. They both express a lack of motivation to date at the moment. Hey, my name is Desiree Botelho and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. My name is Stephanie and I am also a licensed therapist. This is Helical Therapist, a podcast. We're back with episode two. We are back. We're back. And I think before we dive into today's topic, we don't think we know where we're going to start with today's episode. Where are we going to start? What are your thoughts on episode one? Podcasting is hella hard. I think we sounded like we had a gun to our heads. It's funny because we said, you know, our vision and we talked about not being so serious. And then when you listen to it back, we were so serious. And the other day we were listening to it and we were in tears. Yeah, hysterical. Things so hard because, and I guess that's like what you said. It's hard and finding where we start and where this is going to go. We don't know. Podcasting is just really hard. We're just trying to figure out what our group is. And it's, yeah, which is funny that we said we want this to be funny. And then the whole episode was just very serious and honestly very professional. Very like blazer. It almost was like how we were talking. It sounded like we were wearing blazers, but we were not wearing blazers. So we want to kind of match more of our vibe. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, that's definitely, we were in blazer talk and that was totally not how we are. We can turn on the blazer talk if need be. And there's so much we wanted to show on here of ourselves. And so I think taking off the blazer for a little bit. Yes. You know? And that kind of brings us to today's topic, which is going to be solo dolo in these streets. So I know Valentine's Day just passed and we were talking a bit about Valentine's Day and how that can bring a lot of things up for people. And so I'd love to hear, like, tell me stuff about where are you at about this topic, dating? What are your thoughts? Before we dive into some of our topics, like, I want to hear from you. Dating. There's so much to cover. I don't even know where to begin. How's your dating experience right now? I feel like, I'm tired. Yeah. Yeah, I'm tired. I was going to say something positive, but I'm not really feeling that. I'm honestly just tired. It's just a lot of personalities. There's a lot to deal with. I'm good. Yeah, absolutely. And I think as a single person and hearing the things that some people go through on a day-to-day, and then thinking of my own past partnerships, I'm like, I'm so good at where, like, I am good at where I'm at. I'm good single. I don't want to end up in a situation like I've been in in the past, you know? And I think, like we spoke earlier, that is the vibe right now is just drained, tired. Totally. When we're holding so many people's things. And then the last thing for me, I don't know about you, but after a day when I see eight clients, I don't want to talk to anyone. Me either. And I tell people that on dates. I'm like, they're like, what do you do after work? I sometimes eat dinner and I don't even watch TV. Like, it's just silent because I'm so talked out, right? Talking all day. Like, sessions are 50 minutes, and sometimes we see eight clients in a day. Right. And it's not just talking. It's active listening, all these things, right? So when it comes to dating right now, I think we're in a similar, you know, head space where it's like, I'm good. Yeah. For sure. I think that it's in, when you were mentioning that about, like, how we have to, like, actively listen, it's like the job is, like, it's not even just eight hours of just, like, at work It's like a couple hours you're on, a couple hours you can kind of be more relaxed. It's like, no, it's like eight hours straight of, like, fully engaging and caring about people's, like, stuff and, like, really giving a shit. And I think for me, like, my biggest part with dating that's hard for right now is, like, just giving the energy to really give a shit. And, like, I really care for my clients. I really do. I feel I'm great with boundaries. And also I give a shit about them. So I'm really listening and I'm really thinking through all of their stuff, which I think therapists do. And I'm going to speak for me, but that's true where I'm at. And I think that, yeah, once I get off, it's like, then I care for myself. And that means just, like, being quiet or, like, cleaning my house or, like, taking care of bubs. And then after that, there's not much care left in the world for me. Like, there's really, that's kind of it. Like, at that point, I'm kind of like, okay, I've cared for my clients, I've cared for myself. And, like, I don't think I have it in me to care for somebody else right now. I just don't. Yeah. And I think it also goes into, like, what is this, for me, it's been lately, like, how is this person adding to my life? Because what I really want right now is, like, peace. And I've been in situations where it's, like, not peaceful. You know? It's, like, chaos at work and then I go home and it's chaos at home. And, you know, caring for a partner. And it's, like, this person is not my client. I don't need to take care of a grown man, right? So it's, like, being a therapist and also dating, you're trying to separate, you know, in some ways, that identity of, like, I don't want to be a therapist. I don't want to lead. I don't want to hold space when I get home. Like you said, you want to just be quiet. You want to take care of yourself. And I think for me right now, it's, like, are you adding to my peace? Or are you draining me? Like, are you taking a lot of my energy? Am I putting a lot more energy than you're putting into me? Right now, I don't have the desire to even really date, right? I got off the apps this week, the dating apps, because I'm just, like, it's the same people. I hop on and hop off, and it's the same exact people. And they're, like, hey, welcome back. And I'm, like, I'm back. Hi, it's me. And this is me again. Right? But it's, like, for what? Yeah, for what? Like, we pour so much, like you said, for what? We pour so much into our dating life. And then when I lay out all my goals in all the other areas, that time I spent going on dates, going on a million first dates, FaceTiming these people. Right? Like, it just doesn't seem conducive. No. To what your goals are right now. We were talking about this earlier, but talking about just how our dating styles are different. Yeah, say more. Like, so my dating style is this, where, like, I care until I don't care anymore. And I'm, like, in the don't care anymore phase is really long. Like, really long. Like, I will not care for, like, a really, really long time. And I think that, like, that's just kind of the pattern that I have. I just really run out of energy, and then I'm just good. And I, so I'm just single for a really long time. And I just, like, very, I'm very, like, I'll just, like, pick one person to date for kind of a long time, and then I'll just bail for, like, twice as long as whatever the relationship was. So, like, if the relationship was, like, two years, I will, like, bail for, like, four. Like, that is literally my pattern. And I'll go on dates here and there in between, but, like, truly deep down, I don't really give a shit. So, I think, yeah, right now I'm just falling into that pattern, but I'm trying to change that. Like, I don't want to not give a shit for four fucking years. Like, also, I'm 30, I'm 32. Like, that's stressing me out a little bit, but it's fine. And, like, I want to be, yeah, I, like, rely, you help me a lot to remind me that, like, dating is fun. And it can be, like, great. Like, without you, I don't, like, I wouldn't, without that reminder, I don't think I would ever go on any dates. So much fun. And I love that because I'm, like, sitting here mouthing, so much fun, right, because dating is supposed to be fun, especially in the early stages. And I think you help balance me out in the opposite way where my pattern is, like, okay, I'm dating this person. I'm having a good time. I'll focus on them. And then I see it's starting to fall apart. I think then I'm, like, okay, well, I'm going to hop back on the apps. I'm going to find someone else to keep me company. And then it continues that pattern, right? And I think you help me in the sense of I'm, like, should I stay around this person? You're, like, next, drop, she's done. And then I'm, like, okay, right? So you're able to give me that, you know, support in that way where more recently I've been actually just sitting in that discomfort of, like, no, it's just going to be me. And, like, I feel a little anxious about this person I'm seeing, but, like, it's in my, it's me. Let me pause. Let me ground myself. Let me soothe myself. And I'm not going to go doing the same pattern, which is, like, okay, I'll just find someone else, like, next one, right? Like, instead, I am pausing, and I'm pausing off the apps. And this is the first time that I actually feel so drained. Like, I have no desire. Normally I wrap up one and I'm, like, okay, Desiree, get back out there, have fun, go play pool with someone, like, go do this, go do that. At this point, Steph, I do not have... Why do you think that is? Like, what changed? I think I'm burnt out. Or is it that your priorities have changed? You know what? I like that you say that because that might be it, too. Like, I feel like business-wise, I'm really on a different wavelength this year and, like, really stepping it up. So I think that's a thing, too. I've been doing a lot of shadow work. And I've been journaling. Yeah. I've been journaling a lot about, like, what I want my life to be like and what I want it to look like. And a big piece that I feel like I'm lacking is career-wise. Like, I want to go deeper and do certain things. And I think dating has been in the way of that at times, you know, because I'm so focused on dating. So I think the motivation, the internal motivation to, like, create the life I want is coming, like, now career-wise. And burnout. And burnout. Like, I'm so good. Totally. I'm so good. Yeah. Yep. So we did have Valentine's Day not too long ago. And we talked about how Valentine's Day brings up a lot for, you know, a lot of people. What did you do on Valentine's Day this year? It never really bothers me, honestly. Valentine's Day is not a holiday that makes me feel super alone. What does make you feel super alone? What holidays? Any day that's not, like, a holiday. So most days of the year. I feel fairly, like, by myself. And I think that, yeah, I kind of feel super independent and lightweight, like, lonely. Not my dryer going off in the middle of a fucking podcast. Hold on. 30 more seconds. Okay. My day-to-days are so busy that I don't feel it. It's when holidays hit. It, like, smacks me in the face where, you know, Christmas. Everyone has their partner and kids. And I get together with my whole family. And everyone has a kid. Everyone has the partner. And then there's me. Right? Like, when I sit at the table, we have the long tables. I throw it all off because I am a table of one. You know, a chair of one. And so then it throws all the couples off every year. And the long table. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Well, you're strong and independent. You're fine. Yeah, I'm so proud of you. I'm like, I'm tired. I'm too tired to date. I'm too tired to not date. Like, I just don't have an answer. I don't know. I don't know. But, yeah, I definitely do feel. Lately, I have been feeling more alone than other times. It just comes in waves. Yeah, it's just hard taking care of myself constantly alone. I kind of, like you said, like you want someone to add things to your life. And I want that, too. Like, I just want someone to, like, add stability to my life. And add, like, comfort and things like that. I don't really need anything from you other than just be, like, a decent fucking human, I feel. But that's a big ask. That's, yeah. And I think, I mean, the dating app is now the new modern dating, right? And it helps us because we don't have to leave our house. We can hop on, you know, hop off, hop back on. We can do that. But, I mean, what do you think about the dating apps in the dating world now? Yeah, no, dating apps are horrible in my experience. But I've met cool people, too. So I wouldn't say they're all horrible. It just takes a lot of effort, I guess, is the biggest thing. Because it's not like nothing good happens. Good things for sure happen. It's just so much bad stuff in between, has been my experience. Which takes a lot of effort. What kind of bad stuff are you referring to? Oh, my God, I have so many stories. I don't know. I haven't picked one in my brain yet. I'm not ready. Do you want to share a bad story and then I'll think of one? Yeah. I mean, this is more of, like, a broad concept. But I'm thinking of, like, just, there's a lot of dangerous people on the apps. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you were thinking of something else. I think you were thinking about danger. Why did I forget that I could be in danger at some point? Yeah, there's a lot of. Or, granted, strangers in danger. You know, there's a desire to think about danger. Just fucking kill me, dude. I don't care. That's the first thing that comes to, well, not that. But the first thing that comes to my mind is, like, there are so many unsafe people. And, unfortunately, I have had, you know, unsafe situations where I meet people on the apps and they are just, you know, not safe men. But what I will say is. Is it, like, a feeling or, like, can you explain what, like, unsafe men look like for you? Yes. It's a feeling. I think it's also comments that they might make, right? Like, I think it's very telling, you know, by some of the things they say, some of the things they might ask me on a first date. Like what? But, like, anything I feel, like, sex-related on a first date just feels a little like, hmm, if they're weird about meeting in public, if they're talking bad about ex-partners, if they're, like, stumbling because they drank too much. Like, these are all things that I'm definitely more mindful of now. And so I do have, like, a vetting process in the sense of, like, I do have a process where I will talk a little bit and then I'll ask for a phone call or a FaceTime. Typically a FaceTime because I'm not trying to get catfished. Okay, I have been catfished once and it was terrible. First concern is catfish. Second concern is danger. Above all, you better look at your fucking photos because you know I do. So, yeah, I do know, like, a FaceTime and then I will schedule, you know, a date. But I think also trusting your intuition of, like, what typically somebody, I feel like in one phone call you can get bad vibes from someone. If they're putting you down, if they're making just, like, weird comments, and then just trusting that and leaning into there's so many people on the apps that you can just. Next. Just like that story, remember that date that you had and it was, like, during the date you're, like, is it okay to leave? And I was, like, replying to you and I was, like, yes. Call me. Get you out of there. Boom. Done. Right? Like, we know in our body and we can check in with ourselves of, like, something feels off. For my safety, I'm going to get out of here. Totally. Yeah, and I think especially when we think about, like, yeah, just overall just concerns around dating is, like, yeah, the danger is definitely a huge one. And that and, like, how much it's, yeah, it's just the danger is definitely a big one that I think is I try to be mindful of but I'm not great at it, I'll be honest. Yeah. I mean, it's all a work in progress. Yeah. There's times that I'm just, like, I don't care enough to put effort into this. Like, just come to my house. Like, I'll be honest. I literally have just totally done things like that. And I think it's important to me that I am real about that because I don't want people to, you know, I'm not proud of that. I also think that it's things that people do. And people kind of make me, I kind of feel like people make me feel bad sometimes about making choices like that in the past. Like, not you, but, like, people, like, in my life have been, like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, you're a fucking idiot. Like, things like that. Like, I've been told a lot off past, like, mistakes around, like, safety. And it's, like, yes, I understand that people are just really concerned for my safety. Also, like, it's kind of, it's okay to make mistakes around that type of stuff. Like, it's okay to, like, have someone pick you up the first time and then be, like, oh, fuck, maybe that wasn't the best decision. Like, that's how I learn. I kind of, you can't really tell me what to do. If you tell me not to have a stranger come to my house, like. They're coming. Oh, they're coming. They're already on their way. They're already there. Don't tell me what to do. And I think part of it's just, yeah, that. And just, like, so it's also okay to, like, make some mistakes in that process. Right. And I think that's the thing, too, is I don't do that anymore because I have that lived experience of, like, we've done it. Well, I dated. Remember that I dated somebody that I dated him for about six weeks and he knows where I live, knows, you know, all of that. And who was he? We still don't know. I dated. Yeah, we still don't know. A mystery man. Fake name. Judgment of, like, you're a therapist. Like, you didn't pick up on the weird vibe. Oh, my God. He was really good. I don't know. Like, I don't have my therapist hat on. I have my dating hat on. And that hat, we see. Totally. Wasn't good. Was not good. The amount of therapist to dating comments that I'm thinking of, just, there's so many. People always make comments like that. It's mean. It's mean. I wish they would stop. I really do. They hold us to a standard. Yeah, why? I don't know. Do you think that therapists have perfect communication? I'm super confused. Mm-hmm. Also, I, like, shout out to me for saying that I struggle with communication. Like, that was being very honest, Stephanie. Good job. You have awareness. Yeah. Something that a lot of people do not have. Yeah. And I think, also, being able to, for you to have those difficult conversations, right? Because I think in the dating world, a lot of times, people can't, right? When we think about ghosting. Oh, God, yeah. Like, that is, yeah. Like, that is a huge thing now, right? And I think because the dating apps contribute to it in a way of, like, there's so many options. I'll just keep it moving. I'll block this person next, right? But, like, why is it so hard for adults to have, like, hey, had a good date. No longer interested. Have those difficult conversations. It's a part of dating. I mean, I'm definitely guilty of this, so I don't have anything to say. Go ahead and share all your knowledge. I struggle with communication. I just don't get it because I feel like it's so easy to have that. Like, I have been on dates where I will go on a date, and it'll be in person. And then when they're walking me back to my car, they're like, I would love to see you again. And I have told men, like, actually, yeah. I actually will tell them in person, right? Or if I feel unsafe or just uncomfortable, I might say, like, oh, yeah, sure. And then once I leave, I'll send a nice text of, like, hey, it was actually great meeting you. I'm no longer interested. Or, I mean, in person, I even sometimes say, like, yeah, this is cool. If you want a friend, sure, but I don't feel the connection I'm looking for. And I've definitely got, like, okay. And I never hear from them again, but that's fine, right? Like, let's not waste their time. At least they know. Let's not waste their time, my time. Like, let's keep it pushing. For sure. I'm still learning that piece. Yeah. Well, that kind of goes with when I was on my way here and I was thinking, I don't know why I was, maybe because I was listening to Ashanti, I don't know. But I was thinking about spinning the block. That's not even on our outline, but I was, like, you know, I was thinking about Ashanti and I was, like, spinning the block. Add it to the outline. Add it to the outline. Where are you at with, like, the concept of spinning the block? If you don't know what spinning the block is, Steph, what is spinning the block? It's kind of just, like, going through your previous hoes. Yeah, and just kind of, like, circling back per my last email-type vibes. I think that, honestly, I see nothing wrong with it as long as everyone knows what's going on. But I feel like usually the case is that people don't know what's going on, and that's the part that I feel like is kind of... Wait, what are you saying? We cut it out. Yeah. No, we don't have to cut it out. I'm just surprised over here of, like, you don't think people know what's going on when people spin the block. I don't think people know often. No, I don't. I think that people... When you're spinning your block, you know what's going on. The people that are on the rotation, I don't know if they always know what's going on. So I think the people in the rotation are kind of the ones that are, like, he fucking goes to me, like, where is he at? I wish there was more communication so it was more fair. Like, I don't think it's fair to people that, like, that kind of spin the block and have a roster or whatever you want to call it, and then the people that are kind of, like, on the block, they don't know. Like, so there's, like, a ghosting process and, like, I don't know. I just think it needs to be more communication, and then I can see it being fine as long as everyone is consensual with each other and everyone knows what's happening. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you're putting together the ghosting with the spinning the block. Yeah. So you're combining... Okay, gotcha. I totally agree with that. It's like there's ghosting going on and then spinning the block. Right. Yes, gotcha. Okay. 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like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,