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The discussion revolves around the concepts of acculturation and assimilation. Acculturation is seen as the cultural modification of a group or individual by adopting traits from another culture while maintaining their own cultural identity. It is often tied to political conquest or expansion. Assimilation, on the other hand, is viewed as a forced push to adopt the majority culture and abandon one's own culture. Acculturation is seen as a process that occurs along the journey to assimilation. The speakers discuss their own experiences of acculturating and assimilating to different cultures, such as moving to a new location or changing the way they speak. They also mention how food can be a reflection of acculturation and assimilation. Overall, the speakers highlight the importance of acceptance and conformity in these processes. Hello, I'm Brayden Gutierrez, and I'm Sophie Puskin, and today we will be discussing acculturation along with its tangential relations with things like assimilation versus acculturation, the survival of marginalized cultures when confronted with assimilation, and how people acculturate. As well as how this affects our understanding of terms like diaspora, melting pot, minority groups, especially when looking at latinidad and how it has conformed, assimilated, and acculturated to the dominant white western cultures. So starting off super simple, what would you define acculturation as? So through our research process, I think we kind of identified acculturation as cultural modification of an individual group or people by adapting to or borrowing traits from another culture while also maintaining key traits from their own culture of origin. I also feel like it's important to note that acculturation is often tied to political conquest or expansion. It's like the applied process of change in beliefs or traditional practices that occurs when the cultural system of one group displaces that of another. But like, what would you say is like an outcome that you see? Yeah. I mean, I think mainly that when I think of acculturation, I think of the loss of culture from minoritized group to dominant group. And I think that it just kind of creates like this very similar kind of Stepping back from where we were before we really started this whole process of figuring out the podcast. So how would you define assimilation as something different than acculturation? Acculturation is a forced push to adopt to the majority culture and abandon this minoritized culture. It isn't like a voluntary process. I think it's how we both view it. It's something that is imposed upon a person, a group of people or a culture. And it is not necessarily the desired action that one wants to take. But it is like, yeah, forced, forced upon a group in order to have some best chance at survival and success. Absolutely. Now, I feel like assimilation also requires some sort of like threats, or, you know, it's, I don't feel like it also is the last step, too. But I think we have varying opinions on this. Yeah, I view acculturation as a process or like a halfway step that you take, or that happens along the journey to assimilation. I guess I see it as one's culture is fully maintained. And then through this process of acculturation, components of dominant cultures are like adopted, but the own original culture is still identifiable. Meanwhile, there are, you know, these two different components that are present. And then I view it as like assimilation is kind of like that final step where your own original culture cannot be distinguished from your original culture. And it's just completely mixed and melded to the point where it is just like a unique culture that is directly a combination of these two cultures. When I think of acculturation, I think of it as like a process that starts with assimilation, or like a push to assimilate, you know, like when I think of acculturation, I really like associate that with people who are immigrating to a place. And that's not always like outside of the United States, you know, that's like immigrating from like the east coast to the west coast or something like that. So when I think about it, I think about it like an immigrant, like a transplant from somewhere else, coming into a majority culture, a new culture to that, and wanting to like fit in and just like not stick out, you know, it's like a threat. And then through that, you know, I feel like assimilation, you find like moments where it's like sharing your culture or not assimilating entirely, but acculturating and maintaining key aspects of yourself from where you're from. How do you integrate those into like the place where you are now, you know, like through like food, tradition, family, language? But what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think we have like similar ideas on some fields. And I guess it makes me wonder, like, who can acculturate and how that process, I guess, comes about. I agree. It is like, I feel like anybody can acculturate, just like anybody can like assimilate to a new way of living. You know, like when we came up here for college, I assimilated to living with a roommate. I had never lived with a roommate before. And I just had to change the way I acted and like to like live with somebody else in the room. And so I feel like anybody can acculturate or assimilate. It's all just about like location and movement and majority culture. How do you think you acculturated or assimilated to the Pacific Northwest, Oregon? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really interesting question. And I think it's something that kind of we don't really think about very blatantly. I am from Colorado and coming here was a big change. But I think also in many ways, it is very similar. I think kind of cultural norms, just kind of like values, like Colorado was also very outdoorsy. And obviously, like in both states, you do have like a political spectrum, but they tend to be like primarily more liberal. And I guess that's just kind of how I like grew up a little bit more. And so it isn't just like a completely vast change for me, at least environment wise. I also think I can recognize that like a lot, especially here in Oregon, like I am part of this majority group that, you know, people likely assimilate to, especially since I don't feel like I've had to change significantly in order to fit in here. How do you see acculturation and assimilation in your life? I think one of the things that I thought a lot about when we were looking into this and how we like acculturate or assimilate was that like, I've had to do a lot of like shifting or like moving a little bit in like the way I talk and the way I speak about political stuff, because I'm from Texas. And being from Texas, you know, there's definitely a stereotype that is like a red state and that, you know, I would be a, you know, like God fearing Republican who's super mad at everything that ends up like coming up here and not really being like that. And being a little bit more liberal or like not the stereotype of a Texan. It's like been a big like adjustment. And I feel like what's interesting is that I don't really think I've acculturated into the way I've talked. I feel like I've assimilated, like I've been forced to change the way that like I speak and I talk so that like I'm not threatening or like buying into that stereotype. I think that is like another component to like, you're not like just trying to be like, quote unquote, Oregonian. But you're also in that process, like trying not to be associated with this like, this negative description of Texas that I think, unfortunately, many people hold and especially people from here. Kind of like weird to like assimilate out of like a fear of, like a fear of threat. Yes. You know, which is just like, it's not like a huge threat or anything. No, but yes, like it is. You know, like I have to kind of make up some ground. Like a social threat. Yeah. Honestly, like, you know, it isn't life fearing. But you know, in order for your social well being and also like, you know, your success in a new place, you know, you kind of particularly a place like this where I say, you know, most students and the values are pretty liberal, democratic, like you, you want to align to that. It's like toning down, but also dialing up. And I think that, like, you know, it's taking parts of oneself away and also adding, but like, you know, you maybe are experiencing like a need to tone down your, the text in you, if that makes sense. And I'm feeling the need to like amp up that liberal activist paradigm in me, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. I think it's very interesting how that process can be shown in two very different ways, like adding something and taking something away to achieve like a very similar outcome of conformity. I mean, overall, just acceptance, I think. Absolutely. No, I mean, I think this kind of leads into another thing like, I don't know about you, but I've changed the way I've eaten since I've come up here. You know, back home, like a staple of Texan food is like Texans or Mexican food. And like, I've almost completely stopped eating it up here. You know, it's not out of a lack of trying. I've tried almost every other, you know, Mexican place or like, labeled Mexican place in like, Salem. Yeah. And it's been weird. It's not the same at all. Yeah. You know, I thought about it and it was like, you know, they assimilated or acculturated, you know, or like, maybe this is something we could dive into, you know, because did they assimilate or acculturate to the food landscape of Oregon? Yeah. I mean, I feel like assimilation because it's for, like, I see it as something that can be forced. Like, if you're part of a business and you need to sell food, you are going to cater to the people coming to eat. In some ways, like, stereotypically, you do it as like maybe options being less spicy. More vegan. More vegan is definitely here. More vegan and vegetarian. And I mean, obviously self-conscientious. Yeah. Like that. I think that it is more of the, like, of course thing, you know, catering, but in order to survive and to be successful, you need to cater to the landscape and the environment and, you know, what people are eating and what the... But from a different perspective, you know, keeping up with these cultural traditions of food, you know, is acculturation. You're trying to, within the landscape that you're currently in, maintain these cultural practices. And it's indistinguishable. Exactly. It is acculturation. So it's interesting to see how these two different contexts provide a different, you know, not results, but like definition. I mean, I think also like in relation to that too, like not only the food component, you know, being slightly altered, but staying the same as like the language component. I mean, I think that like, you know, a lot of places here, while they, you know, maybe the restaurant has conformed to a more Oregon diet, like, you know, you can still go into a Mexican restaurant and speak Spanish to someone. And you can see a distinguishable component, which I guess, yeah, is acculturation now that I think about it. Like, you know, you have these two components, but you can still identify kind of like the origin, the intention, that kind of component. It's really like interesting that the origin and intent are very key to the conversation of what is acculturation and what is assimilation. And that's, you know, something we really dived or wanted to like look at and interrogate. With that in mind, what components of society do you think implicitly or like explicitly push people to acculturate versus assimilate? With our different perspectives, how do those things, like implicit versus explicit, push one to the other? Yeah, I mean, I was talking about language a little bit earlier. I think that's one of the first things that kind of comes to mind. I think it is very explicit and also implicit. I think, you know, explicitly there are a lot of examples of, you know, people speaking a different language being told like, This is America, do you speak English? I mean, I remember there was a quote by a female Texan governor that said, if English was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us, which is very ironic considering Jesus is not white and does not speak English. Like, that component of like it being said like very much. Explicitly English is what we want. But then I think also implicitly, which it can also be explicit in some ways, but implicitly, I also think just kind of like the availability of like resources in language, you know, particularly in schools, education, mental health services, like that kind of thing. I think that, you know, like when there only is information provided in one language, it is subconsciously and sometimes explicitly telling you, like, if you want to access this information, you have to speak this language, you know, like navigating places. I mean, like, Matt, like, just, you know, just everything and everything. Completely. And I think that it's also, you know, for you and I, it's harder to recognize because like, you know, we both grew up speaking English. So like, everything around us has been centered around our like, our English American language, like we can, you know, go any place in the US and even honestly, at this point in other countries. And how people cater to us. Yes. And I think also why I focus so much on language, too, is just I view it as like a very fundamental part of culture. You know, that's, that's the way you are communicating your culture and communicating with people within your culture. And I think there's also just something kind of sacred in that, you know, I kind of that human connection component of language. And yeah, I guess just how that interconnects people and groups and creates that sort of like intimate connection. No, I was actually just having a conversation with a friend about this yesterday, we were talking about like dying languages, and how some of those dying languages are considered like kind of closed practice for like, you know, not really for everyone to learn. You know, I was, it was spurred off of a conversation about like, how I miss talking to my friends back home in sign language, because we all took sign language together. And, you know, they were like, Oh, well, why can't you teach us? And I was like, you know, I'm a hearing speaker of sign language. So I have an accent. So it would be unfair for me to teach you guys, because this isn't really my thing to teach. And they're like, you know, well, how does this apply for like other things? I was like, well, you know, you can look at other dying languages, you know, it involves a cultural context, it doesn't exist in a void, you know, like Kamala's hair said, you know, you think you just fell out of a coconut tree, you exist in a context of everything before you. Like, language exists with a context to it. And I think that like, you know, ignoring that context of like, it can be used as a safe space for people. And to ask people to step away from that safe space and to not allow them into those spaces, you know what I mean? Like for us to learn a dying, like native language, invading the spaces of those people that are using them to like hide from people like us. So, you know, there is very much that component of taking one's language and that sacredness of that culture, you know, for one's self and exploiting that. And I think there's like a very, like such a fine line. Absolutely. Yeah. How do you think that like the implicit and explicit pushes and pulls pushes like model minority myth and model minority like ideals on to minoritized groups of people? Yeah, honestly, I think that it's just basically like explicitly you are shown this stereotypical image of a person from a minoritized group that has become successful. And it is, I guess, showing that this is the way to be successful, you know, like if you're from somewhere else, or if you are different. For me, it connects a lot to that like concept of the American dream and kind of like the like imposition of the idea of the American dream and kind of like you have to do this, this, this, and this, you know, to be successful. But, you know, that American dream, that list, that new list doesn't guarantee success at all. It also just assumes that everyone's on the same starting point. How do you think it relates to model minority? I feel like the explicit and implicit, one of those is like depictions of model minority myth. Yeah. And unlike TV, it's, you know, it's always about, I feel like it's always a successful, like, you know, POC student has overcome these challenges, you know, but like, they never have an accent. And they, you know, they always have good grades. And they're always like, especially like children's TV shows. Like where the goal is to like, I guess, show representation, you know what I mean? But it's always, you know, these extremely like whitewashed or like, you know, one size fits all cookie cutter ideas of what a model minority might look like. They're like East Asian students or whatever. It's always like the studious, quiet kid. And then... I mean, we saw that in Kathy Parkway's book, Minor Failures. But yeah, but not like these ideas of like stereotypical peoples being shown. And then contrasting that with the, like the main characters in these TV shows are like this immediately assume they're often white. Their friends that they're friends with are always model minority, you know, they're always model minority. And they never, they might have someone in their life that isn't this perfect depiction of, you know, like they're, they might have a POC friend, you know, that's quiet and endearing and they are very studious. And then someone, you know, else who isn't their friend will be like loud and rambunctious. And they're like an enemy or they're seen as bad or they're seen as there's something wrong with them. You know what I mean? Yeah, giving this expectation of something to work towards. If you want to be this person that is not a stereotypical model minority, then you are the enemy of your beloved character. And I mean, I think that it's just, it's so, so tragic, especially in like young media. Yeah. I mean, I think that you see that, you know, in terms of like sexism too. It's like, in some ways, just another message that the media kind of forces down our throats, I guess, obviously. Yeah. No, absolutely. And I feel that model minority is obviously extremely harmful. But like these concepts are pushing that you need to act a certain way. Or they're even pushing the opposite too. I feel that if you don't act like a model minority, you need to fit this stereotype. Yes. Like good or bad. Exactly. You know, you need to act a certain way. You need to talk a certain way. You need to eat a certain food. And it's like, that's, you know, you need, you fit one or the other. Like in the census, you know, with like the ways that people are like systematically categorized. Yes. And the categorization and the concept of generalization. Obviously generalization is harmful. And it's so harmful because it doesn't allow for people to step outside of these obviously harmful stereotypes. Yeah, I totally agree with that. With that in mind, why might the generalization of quote unquote Hispanic be harmful? I feel like Hispanic, at least for me, like growing up, it was always really referencing like all people from Latin America as like one group. And then also that group was Mexican. Because I did grow up in Texas. The way people categorized like people that have like Spanish or like, you know, some sort of like Latin heritage was all just Hispanic or they were all just Mexican. And Hispanic and Mexican were used very interchangeably. And so I feel like Hispanic without like context is not helpful. And it is also very, very, very damaging. And like, it's harmful, like, because it's just like growing up in Texas, Hispanic and Mexican were used interchangeably. The same stereotypes that were perpetuated, people who were Mexican were also perpetuated for everybody else who was brown, you know, like everyone. I have a key memory, like a core memory of like a summer camp I went to and someone's name was like Julio and this other kid was like, oh, so your dad cuts grass, right? And it was just like, whoa, you know, like me and Julio had talked and he wasn't from Mexico, his family was like Puerto Rico. So it was, but it was like, because of that generalization of like, you're Hispanic, you're Mexican, these are the stereotypes happening. You know, it's like a racist culture and a racist heritage. And I feel like it also pushes like a forced assimilation. You know what I mean? Like that term can cause a lot of harm without proper aim. You know what I mean? Without understanding. Also, in some ways, kind of this terming Hispanic and this lumping of Hispanic is assimilate, like verbal assimilation in itself. But it's like biracial. So my experience is different than their experience. And it's like all so different. With all that in mind, too, I feel like further erasing people's history comes in like with this census, you know? Obviously, our country's history is completely and utterly built on systemic racism. And I think I don't know exactly the entire history of the different categories on the census. In general, the questions are you of Latino, Spanish or Hispanic origin? And I think that, you know, even that question in itself, while trying to recognize, you know, a person's ethnicity, it's also generalizing every single person from Spain, from Mexico, like from any from South America, like all of these places together just into one yes or no question. And on top of that, it's under the like categorization of like, you're not this first, you're like white first. And it's like, you know, you can be like, oh, you know, they're just trying to get at the fact that like, you know, people like that onto the community that come in a variety of like, you know, skin tones or whatever. But it's like, it doesn't, it's not really, it's still erasing someone's identity, especially when they've been like racialized and put into a marginalized group and not minority on access. And it's not actually acknowledging race or someone's separate identity. Either this or this. No, it doesn't really allow for people to be like, multiracial, biracial, you know, like this. And it's very invalidating. I feel, you know, I got someone who falls in that like, yes, multiracial biracial category. It's so invalidating to not be able to like, get that experience. And then it pushes, you know, the stereotypes, again, you know, well, if you don't fit on it, literally in the census, how do you fit in, you know, in a social world? Well, are, you know, do you fit this stereotype or this stereotype or this stereotype? Like, you know, what are you doing for this? And that's not who I am. I don't fit into that because that's not who I am. But I'm still part of this group that you're stereotyping right now. And I think it's also kind of creating that narrative that like, in order to be, quote unquote, part of this minority group, you have to be a certain way. Exactly. And I mean, that is just so, so harmful. I mean, I think that when we were talking about our project, one of the things that we kept coming back to, especially like in the realm of Latinidad is like Spanish language. And just kind of like that harmful component that assimilation can also create as to like, not only are you feeling excluded from the majority group, but also you're being excluded from your minority, your minoritized group. I don't know. I think it's just very, it's very much like there's no way to do anything right. I guess it's how I kind of view it. It's like you are in clinical good standing with the majority group and you fit in like that, whether, you know, that is what you want or not. But then you're not considered like actual person of your original culture anymore. I don't know. That's kind of off on a little tangent. But I just think that that's interesting. No, and I think that kind of like falls into like the whole thing about the census, not really recognizing people of multiple ethnic or racial identities. It kind of falls into the idea that like Latinidad is a diaspora and it consists of like varying groups of people, but that all fall within Latinidad, you know, as like a second definition, you know, and to define diaspora, it's just like being part of the same ethnic or cultural group, but that exists full of varying different types of people. You know, nobody looks the exact same way. You know what I mean? Like one of me and my friends back home, we had like a little running joke about like how I get tanner than her. I'm biracial and she's not, you know, or her dad's from like Colombia and her mom's from Mexico. And it's like, she's much more like Hispanic, quote unquote, in like Latin, you know, whatever. And she's like white as a ghost and I'm tan. And it's like, it's like a running joke. And it's like, we both fit into this category of like on the diaspora where I'm definitely still a white individual. And she's definitely still a white individual, but we are part of Latinidad as like a bigger group. Definitely. And I think it's interesting. Like I am white, but I think that also a way that this is kind of conveyed in my life is just a blatant expectation that the way I look, I can't speak Spanish. I am, I have light hair and I have blue eyes and I am white. And I think that like, not only for somebody whose second language is Spanish, like that doesn't affect me as much, but like, um, it's basically saying if you are actually a person of this ethnicity, you have to look a certain way. And I guess it's just, it really is not accounting for diversity within the group. It's so overlooked and Hispanic can be very harmful. And I feel like, you know, Latinidad can be very harmful, but like within the context, you know, I feel like a lot of what we're talking about is like, it's within a context, within this context, you know, you're not all out of a coconut tree. You need to understand multiple different things to understand it as a whole. And that's fair to ask of people too. You know what I mean? These are people's lives and identities. Like it's not, there's no norm. Yeah. No, like everyone's their own individual person. And yes, like we will all live a human life. It's kind of similar. No one ever, no one's ever going to be the exact same. No, absolutely. But like on a different, like, I guess, tangent, what do you think are some of the harms of assimilating? Yeah. I mean, the manner in which I view assimilation as kind of full conformity. I mean, I think that in itself just is completely harmful. The loss of one's own unique culture for a part in this majority culture. I think this, you know, the loss of, I think culture is very important. And I think that kind of like needing to give that up in order to find safety or comfort or acceptance is just honestly, just extremely harmful in itself. I feel like it's like mentally harmful too. You know what I mean? You feel disconnected from your culture and from your people and you feel like you're like starting a new identity all of a sudden and they're not like, which one's you? You know what I mean? Like part of this like identity development. You've been this person for a really long time and now you've assimilated, you know, because of multiple different reasons, you know? I think what kind of came to my mind when I was thinking about that was the portion of the book we read from, we came all the way from Cuba for you to dress like this. And I was just thinking about how when they got off the boat from Cuba, when they went to that church, that woman basically told her to change out of her green sweater, I believe, while clothing, you know, is less, I think. I think in, you know, in some cultures, it is a very important part. I think that like that, and then I think that further on in the book, I guess, is what I'm getting to is when she was wearing bell bottoms and the crop top is then when her parents were like, you dress like this. And so, you know, when she came here, it was like, why are you dressed quote unquote Cuban? Then also, now that you're in this place, like the parents are like, why are you this stereotypical American girl? I feel like the thing you can't really leave out of this conversation too, is why people assimilate, you know what I mean? I feel like assimilation is the worst thing. You know, I think there are multiple different ways that you can be forced to assimilate, but like, like literally threat of physical violence, literally being threatened, you know, like you're to whatever, you know what I mean? I think we've all seen the reels and the TikToks and the posts, whatever, about like these like Karen's or like Kevin's or whatever. It's like a very real thing. These people are coming after these other people who, you know, are speaking Spanish in public or speaking another language in public. Or, you know, they're dressed in some like traditional garb and yet commenting on like, oh, you look like a foreign princess, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, oh, you look just like so and so. And it's like, you're forced to assimilate to these American idols because of forced violence, thought of violence or job opportunities, livelihood, you know what I mean? Personal survival, while your life may not be on the line, you know, you have to perhaps take your hijab off. It's a cultural value. And like, you are being harassed. And it's just something in itself. And I think that is definitely something to that, like, because we don't generally I want to say we don't have a lot of respect and understanding of a lot of cultures that it very much like that dominant mindset. This is the right way or there's no way at all. No, absolutely. It's definitely in my way or the highway. You need to conform this way, too. You know what I mean? It's not even through like, you know, how do you think you might conform? It's about this is what you need to do. You know what I mean? And I feel like I was talking about earlier, they're definitely implicit and explicit from the outside. But there's also implicit and explicit like pressures coming from within. Yeah, internally. to be, you know what I mean? Like, you don't want to be picked on for being, you know, whatever. You don't want to be bullied. You don't want to stick out. And I think that especially in youth and adolescence, that's something that's huge. Huge. And I think that's something, too, that like, unfortunately, like, if you need to, quote, unquote, compromise your own identity in order to feel safe and happy at school, like that is the easiest route. Honestly, that is that is the path that we have created for people to be successful, basically. Absolutely. You know, it's forcing people to this my way or the highway. My way or the highway. How do you think then acculturation is about? Yeah, I mean, so I guess the way in which I view it is that assimilation is the end process. So acculturation happens first and like slowly and that, you know, while one may be forced to conform when your own original culture is still identifiable. The way I see it is that that is still acculturation and that when it is indistinguishable and completely melded together, then that is when it's assimilation. What do you think? I would define it as like assimilating definitely in my, you know, as I explained earlier, I think assimilation happens first and I think you go through a process of assimilating and then, you know, through the process of assimilation, you don't really finish assimilating. But rather you transform into like an acculturated state where you perhaps find a community where you're safe to practice your cultural traditions or beliefs or, you know, or that like you are within a culture that like allows you to maintain those. You know, you're not in threat of like physical violence or mental harm or emotional harm. You're in a space that's like available to be yourself or to be some part of yourself. And so I feel like the reason why I think assimilation happens first is because you're afraid, obviously, you know, assimilation and acculturation happen to people who move or who transfer or who immigrate. And so you're first, you want to fit in immediately and you don't want to stick out because you don't know what is acceptable. You're still adjusting. You're assimilating to this new way. And then through that process of assimilation, you can find ways to acculturate and to maintain these key aspects. And so reasons to acculturate are accepting communities, you know, maybe not so much of a threat of physical violence or, you know, having the autonomy to practice your religion or your culture, to practice these traditions, to have food, you know, having access to like food substitutes even, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, I feel like the opposite. Yeah. I mean, how do you think that we've seen this in like books we've read in our class? I think obviously we've seen it in, we came all the way from Cuba. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. I forgot the name. And so like we see that in that text where first she's asked, she's asked to shed this clothing, which is like, it's definitely like a metaphor, like a cocoon type of thing, you know what I mean? Absolutely. She does assimilate to American culture and she does pick up these like American ways of dressing and like she's picking up these American values. It is what it is. And so it's like, we've seen assimilation occur so much in that text. And so like, we see it a lot in that text. And I don't really know if we see acculturation because, you know, under the pretext of the text, it's a situation where it's not 100% safe to practice her cultural values and her traditions in the way that, you know. Yeah. And it also is kind of like the narrative of like, if you want support from us in this new country, you have to do things our way. Yeah, I don't know. I think that obviously we don't necessarily have a full, complete context because we didn't read, you know, the entire book. We only read a portion of it. But I do think from what like we've seen that it's like definitely. No, it's definitely present there. The next thing we would like to talk about was how when we went to look into the text that we looked at in class for ideas about assimilation, acculturation, stuff like that, we found a lot of assimilation explored explicitly or like implicitly, but we found nothing of acculturation. And often the conversations that were surrounding assimilation were very interesting. Yeah, we looked at chapter one of the Sifuentes book. The book was A Forest and Fields, and it was really interesting because it was mainly focused on the Braceros programs in the U.S. and especially in Oregon at this time and kind of that temporary labor and that concept of disposable people and disposable cultures, which I thought was really interesting because it kind of never really, never really said that explicitly, especially because kind of in this sense, these people and these cultures were kind of disposable. And then also like the only, I think, really like standout part we really found like from that was when they were talking about how the people that hired them had brought like a woman in to teach dancing and had basically assumed that because this woman taught Latin dance, that she automatically kind of knew the kind of dance that these Mexican men had known. And it was later found out that she was from Argentina or Brazil or somewhere where it definitely wasn't the same culture and the same values. And there was, I mean, obviously that disconnect, which I think shows kind of that assimilation component. Yeah, no, I definitely agree. I feel like one thing that's super interesting that I liked and that kind of brought up for me was like how I feel like there is almost a like a pushback from like Latin, like Spanish communities to not, to be known as separate from one another. You know what I mean? And how that like the push to not assimilate, I feel, comes to not assimilate with other like Spanish, Hispanic, Latin, Latinas, like groups. Yeah. You know, like it's like an inward push. Definitely. Because I feel like it's pride to like be seen. And I think you even see that within cultures, too. I think that like, I think that especially with the upcoming election, there's been a lot of talk about migrants from Latin America, specifically Mexico in this context. But kind of that wanting to distinguish from like if you are from Mexico, but you are now a U.S. citizen or residing in the U.S., that you are different, you know, from your Mexican counterparts that are actively living in Mexico. And while at one point, quote unquote, you were the same people as you shared the same location, I think there is kind of that want, especially like... To be a little different. To be different. And I think also that kind of just that American whiteness status is something that I mean... It's valuable. It carries so much social capital. Yeah, like it's kind of like, why would you not want to, not like flaunt it in a way, but like, you know, like once you have it, it's kind of like, yeah, I do have it and other people don't. And like, whether you explicitly like use that, or you don't like explicitly use it, you still have it. And I feel like subconsciously you might know and subconsciously, you know, like, I feel like I see that in myself when I go back home, like, oh, I cannot like Pacific Northwest you at anything, you know what I mean? That was like a phrase I used to be like, oh, I can, you know, put on a stereotype. Yeah. You know what I mean? Obviously. No, for sure. That like my friends back home couldn't because I haven't lived up here. But like, that's not really the argument. It's like, that like, oh, I have this. I have this and you don't. And you don't. And I have this experience and I have this knowledge and I have this different kind of like set of resources that just comes along with residing and all of that kind of stuff. And I think it really is interesting, too, because a lot of that stuff, I think, even without citizenship, you know, just, you know, having physical location in the U.S. and obviously that isn't to say that every person that like migrates here has these opportunities, especially because in many ways, unfortunately, our country is not like that accommodating and stuff. But I just think it is interesting that creates like a separation oftentimes within groups and like within groups. But then also, like you were saying, like minoritized groups feel the need to distinguish themselves from minority groups. I also think that like part of that is the fact that these groups have been lumped together, that they feel the need to distinguish themselves. Like there wouldn't be that much like obviously identity expression, I think, is important regardless. But especially if you've been lumped into a group and told that you are the same thing as somebody else when you're not, then I mean, it's kind of like when your mom tells you to wash the dishes and you were going to do it. And now you don't want to do it anymore. And now you don't want to do it because it's like, okay, like. Now that you tell me. Yeah, now that you're telling me that, you know, I'm just like the people, like I'm going to show you. That I'm different. That I'm not. And I think, unfortunately, it makes this kind of like something to prove, unfortunately. And then centering, I guess, back on like this idea is that like we really don't see acculturation being talked about or like discussed. And I feel like that in itself is, it can cause harm. Definitely. And, you know, like one thing that I've been thinking about is like the way people empathize or understand. And sometimes the way people understand is through empathizing, kind of. You know what I mean? Yeah. They need something or a word or something to describe this experience, right? And so I feel like a lot of times when people who have like acculturated or like assimilated or just like people in general have an experience and there's not really a known word for it. People not knowing that there's like a word for it or not like understanding that is a way that people disvalue and like push to the side these experiences. Yeah, completely. You know? And it's just like having acculturation being talked about is so important to value these people's experience. And I think the thing is like you, when it's not talked about, you don't know if you're the only person experiencing it. And if this is a normal experience or if you are like abnormal in this instance. And especially like you were saying, just like the vocabulary of knowing like what you're experiencing is a thing. To be able to address it and talk about it with others or at least recognize within yourself what is happening. Yeah, especially like super small, like tangential thing or whatever. But like academia is a way that people are excluded. Oh, completely. And language is why people are excluded. And I feel like having acculturation not be talked about is one of those ways that like academia and exclusion kind of combine in a moment. You know what I mean? Like this word isn't known and because it's not known, it's not important too. You know what I mean? I agree. So it's like we know what acculturation is and like there are people that know what acculturation is and they can identify that. But it's not really talked about like assimilation is. It's a smaller thing. You know what I mean? That's not really something that happens to people really often. Yeah. Well, it's like whatever, whatever. Well, it's basically the same thing with assimilation too, which also is very hurtful. But I feel like after our dive into the text, you know, in Critical Latinx Indigeneity, they only really talk about like in the section we read at least, how like latinidad isn't a super great word to like describe, you know, the community that we, you know, use latinidad to describe. You know, like people of Spanish, Spanish and like Latin heritage, you know, to and how it's like used as a monolith, whatever. And then we came all the way from Cuba is all about like assimilating and like how there are varying pressures to assimilate and different like outcomes. And then in our other text that we wanted to look at with keywords for, yeah. And it's just all of these are very like they don't really talk about acculturation. And, you know, I've gained so much from reading them, but it's not talked about. And obviously that's our goal with this podcast is to make it digestible and understandable in a conversational sense. Yeah. And one of the other pieces that we read was part of the keywords of Latino Latino studies. It was chapter for the assimilation part by Catherine Ramirez. And it was a an entire chapter in the context of Latino Latino studies about assimilation. And it was really interesting because it touched on assimilation and also acculturation. And it kind of compared the words assimilation, acculturation, incorporation and integration all together. And it was really interesting because it did say, you know, these these words are often used interchangeably, but they are need to be distinguished from one another. But it doesn't really actually distinguish it. It said how a lot of scholars, you know, make an effort to distinguish, but it didn't really establish for the reader how they were distinguishable. And I don't know, I guess that just stood out to me. And then also point in this chapter that I interpreted like the way I read it as a little bit like contradictory towards like the other knowledge, I guess, that I've had and taken in and the way I've interpreted some other information. It talked a lot about how there's this concept of Mexican exceptionalism, which is kind of the idea that Mexican people are deemed like unassimilable. And the fact that because it is so close and that through like temporary labor, there's kind of like that shift between locations. And like there is not as much of a need to assimilate or acculturate or be part of that dominant culture. And I think that that's I guess I don't I don't necessarily agree with that. No, but it's just it's interesting to really analyze and look at how each of these talk about assimilation explicitly or implicitly. Obviously, you know, like whether it's directly in the text or, you know, it's we came all the way from Cuba. Read it just like this. And it's implicit. Exactly. It's an implicit, oh, take this, take off that coat, put on this, you know, whatever. None of these texts really focus on the other side of assimilation, which is acculturation. I feel like in both of our definitions, acculturation is somewhere. Yes. And, you know, people I feel like as we discussed in this podcast to like acculturate certain aspects and assimilate certain aspects. Definitely. You know, like you're acculturating your food to the location, but you might assimilate your style of clothing. You know, I definitely changed the way I dress. Yeah. And so it's really interesting to look at each of these texts and to really understand the way they talk about it. To add on to that, I also think that the fact that assimilation and acculturation are not kind of distinguished from one another negates the fact that there is a lot of positive to be found in acculturation, at least, you know, by the way we are defining it. Kind of that maintaining of original culture and that distinguishable component of original culture, I feel is so important, especially when there is that external force that we've been talking about to conform the concept, at least in my mind, of what acculturation is. Being able to recognize your own culture amidst a dominant culture is so powerful. It's not talked about enough. I think that, you know, the narrative is either like all or nothing. And not talking about acculturation, I think, kind of opens the narrative or encourages the fact that it's either like all or nothing, I guess. And that you have to, you know, completely conform or assimilate and that there isn't kind of this, the word I'm going to use is option. I understand it's not a choice, but I guess it's on a spectrum is how I'm viewing it. And I think that that is just something that is important for people to know, I guess. Absolutely. You know, it's a very big, and we can go on and on and on about the differences between acculturation and assimilation. You know, a benefit or a negative. We could go on and on. But there's just, it's obvious that there is a lot more of this discussion to be had. And I feel that it's a good place to be at the front of the conversation. You know what I mean? I agree. With all of this in mind, touching on it again, it's good to be at the front of this conversation and to, you know, obviously we're not the first people to talk about this. That would be ignorant for me to say, but it's good to research and just come up with more and more questions. The more I felt like we researched, the more we have to talk about certain things and really dive into it. And look at it from this lens specifically. I think that especially, you know, the concept of having a specific keyword in mind was very valuable in our understanding of acculturation. You know, because we were creating questions and finding sources and looking at all of this stuff through this lens of acculturation. Not through the lens of something else, you know. And then we come across acculturation. It was, our goal was to define and understand acculturation. And I feel that, honestly, I have more questions. Yeah. And I'm anxious to hear you. Yes, absolutely. And I think I'm very glad that we have hopefully helped in some way open up a little bit of a conversation about this. And helped to spark some questions for other people and their learning of other people, cultures, and just kind of the world in general. Absolutely. And yeah, no, I think that's a good place to wrap up. I've been Brayden. I'm Sophie. And this is our podcast. Thank you for listening. Bye. Toodles.