Moonlight

Hi, welcome to Sip and Swing. I'm Jenna. And I'm Bonnie. And we are here counting down the Best Picture winners from the Oscars, from worst to best, and we are up to number 17. Yeah. Wow. So Bonnie, do you want to open the envelope and tell me what you know what is number 17? I'm opening an envelope that says 17. It says, I'm so confused, it says both Moonlight and La La Land. I've seen both movies. Okay. So what movie are we talking about? Well, we're probably talking about both of them. Yeah. We're here to talk about Moonlight. Yes. Who we're pretty sure won Best Picture. Yes. Although it's incredibly confusing. It was very confusing. We just rewatched the Oscars. Yeah. So for those that don't know, this was the time that the wrong name was announced for Best Picture. Bonnie and Clyde passed their time. Well, we'll talk about why it happened. It's not really their fault. Well, first of all, what is your history with Moonlight? I have seen that the Oscars thing. Okay. That's the only thing that I've known about it. Oh, yes. I saw it when it came out and then I saw it a couple of years ago. So for your trivia question for this week. Okay. Moonlight, as you know, has the same character or characters played by three different actors at different ages. Yes. What other movie that we podcasted about also has the same character played by three different actors? Oh, no. Oh, no. Was it The Last Emperor? Oh. Oh. Actually, that might... I don't remember if there's... There were different actors. Yeah. Okay. That might be another one. That's the one I was thinking about. Yeah, I think there were at least. Okay. To be fair, I definitely saw him as a very young child and then as an adult. It's a movie where trivia is an important plot point. The quiz show? No, it was that Indian movie. Slumdog Millionaire? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. All three of the two brothers and Latika were young, middle and adults. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I didn't get that. You did pretty well on that trivia question. Did I? Yeah, because I came up with something you hadn't thought of. Yeah, that's true. I'll verify that, but I think that that is the case, that there were at least three. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, let's look at the... Well, there were, other than the two Best Picture nominees that everyone talks about now, there were actually nine total. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, let's just look at the losers before we get into the model moonlight proposal. Okay. So, Arrival is a science fiction movie. This is about language, right? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting movie. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Adams. Have you ever seen it? I have seen it. Yeah. Amy Adams, a general engineer star. Amy Adams is linguist, a language expert who's... There's a visitation from another planet, and she is hired to try to communicate with them. A very interesting movie. Yeah. But yeah, Arrival's good. Denis Villeneuve directed it. Who? Denis Villeneuve. Oh, I don't know. Him. Him. Yes. Fences was also a Best Picture nominee from this year. Oh, I think I saw Fences also. Oh, wow. I like to see everything Denzel Washington. He's great. I can watch him in any film. He directed it. I believe that's his directorial debut. Oh, okay. Yeah. It is based on an August Wilson play. He plays a sanitation worker in, I think it's set in the past, if I remember correctly. He's married to a boy named Davis, and has a young adult son. And there's the parents disagree about his future path. And that's basically, you know, some of those movies where you can tell that it's based on a stage play, because it's very much like watching a play, but that's not a bad thing. It's very well acted. Also, Lion. Yeah, this is a movie that Doug Patel is in it, who we saw in Somebody Millionaire. He's all grown up and scruffy, but it's about a little, actually the little boy. Adopted. Yeah, I saw this. This was kind of a remarkable movie. Yeah, it is. This little kid in India gets on a train that was seemingly abandoned, but it ends up taking him to Mumbai, this gigantic city where he doesn't, he doesn't even know the name of this town. He just becomes lost in the city. So the first half of the movie is this kid in India. And then the second half is him as a young adult played by Doug Patel, where he's trying to find his family. Yeah. Very remarkable movie. Yeah, it really is. Nicole Kidman plays his adoptive mother. Yeah, exactly. So you've seen a few of these. Yeah, I have. Weird. Yeah. What's going on in 2016? A lot was going on. I was escaping reality at that point or something. I don't know. Yeah. Manchester by the Sea is a drama by Kenneth Lonergan. This is a movie that's set obviously in the city's Manchester by the Sea, which is in Massachusetts. Not to be confused with the Manchester that's in New Hampshire. I don't think it's on the... Fishing Village, Fishing Town, C.C. Affleck plays this really broken man dealing with grief and trauma, trying to put his life back together. It's kind of a spoiler to say what he was grieving for, because it's kind of gradually revealed as the movie goes on, but it's really devastating. Is it a good movie? I thought it was very good, yeah. Is he related to Ben Affleck? Yeah, it's his little brother. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's been in a lot of movies with Ben Affleck, Good Will Hunting. He's also in Ocean's Eleven. I did. Yeah, he was one of the Eleven. Okay. Hacksaw Ridge was also out this year. Okay. Not really a cup of tea. Not really my cup of tea. A violent war movie. This is... World War I? World War I, I believe. Yes, World War I. Yeah. Yeah, stars Andrew Garfield as a... He's a pacifist because of his religious convictions, who becomes a medic in the war. That's a great movie, isn't it? It is, and he ends up being a hero. I believe it's based on a true story, but it's directed by Mel Gibson. Oh. So this is... He probably kind of had a comeback here briefly in 2016. Didn't know that. Yeah, and then... Here's Hollywood. Kind of wrote him off again. He's... You know, I've said it before. I'm not a real big Mel Gibson fan, but... This is before or after his crash? The... Malibu crash. Yeah, the... Rant. Yeah, his medic rant. Yeah, this is after that, so... Okay. So it was kind of surprising that he got kind of... Because he got a Best Director nomination, too. Wow. And then he kind of went back into the downcast, but he kind of seems to like being brain-canceled. But that's Hacksaw Ridge. Also Hidden Figures. I think you saw that, too. Yeah, my first movie. Yeah, so you saw a bunch of these. Wait. She was in... Wasn't she in Moonlight, too? Yeah, it's a non-bonnet. Her first movie, actually, was Moonlight, and she was... I was wondering what I knew her from. I'm sure it was this. Yeah, so this is the story of three black women, I think in the 60s, who are brilliant NASA employees, and it's about their achievements that end up being kind of hidden, or they don't get credit. But to not only is one of them, Taraji B. Henson is kind of the main one, and then Octavia Spencer, who I think you know from The Help, and probably my other movies, is another. Kevin Costner's also in it. Big hit. Very kind of uplifting film, good movie. Hidden Figures was a Best Picture nominee. And Heller Highwater. Are you familiar with that? No. Yeah, Heller Highwater is kind of a modern-day western, or sort of modern-day. I think it takes place in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. It's in West Texas, and it's about a pair of brothers who go on a bank robbery spree. The connection to the financial crisis is that their motives are for to steal from the bank chain of Texas Midlands in the movie that ripped off their home, their family home. Sort of like a revenge slash Robin Hood. Yeah, kind of like Robin Hood, except like, steal from the rich and give to the poor, with the caveat that the poor is me. Yeah. And Jeff Bridges plays the lawman who, I think a Texas marshal, who is pursuing them. Very good, kind of modern western. And then of course we have La La Land. You've seen it, right? Yeah, musical. Yeah, a musical, very colorful. Very colorful. Emma Stone and Brian Gosling star as these two attractive Los Angeles dealing with their ambitions for fame, and their attachment to one another, and sing and dance, and talk about jazz. Yeah, and this one had so much buzz about it. Oh yeah, I mean this was a huge front-runner. It was the movie that really won all the precursors that you expect it to win. Yeah, and it won for a few minutes. It won for a few minutes. Yeah, you could kind of tell. Well, it got 14 nominations, which is tied for the best ever. It had won six of those, which were very expected. You can kind of see signs where, because remember when we were watching the Oscars, and you were saying, oh look, I'll try it on the western front. It's kind of winning early, and I was like, yeah, I don't think that shows weakness for everything, everywhere, all at once. Because one of the things you look for, if you're an experienced Oscars watcher, is that the front-runner usually has those categories where it's a shoo-in, and then there's others where it's kind of on the bubble, right? So if it's like winning everything, everywhere, all at once, it was winning everything where it was kind of on the bubble. It did lose a few early on, but there were ones where it was like the achievement was that it was even nominated. It got a best song nomination, and stuff like that was kind of out of the blue. And I think a few of the all-white on the western front wins were not in categories where it was even nominated. But then you saw with La La Land, it was winning, but it was also everything where it was kind of on the bubble, maybe it'll win. It loses screenplay, it loses costume design. So it looks kind of weak, but it's like, well, what else is going to win? And then it did win Best Director, as expected, and then it was called out as Best Picture. And I remember watching it, and then get news alerts, La La Land wins Best Picture at the Oscars, like already coming up. And then a few minutes later, kind of at the beginning of the third speech from La La Land, it's the producers. They come out and say, no, a mistake has been made. What's interesting is that third producer come on, he already knew that they hadn't won, but he started his speech, and then he ended it by saying, oh, by the way, we lost. Yeah, I mean, he's probably like, you know, it's a confusing moment. He doesn't want to be the only one not thanking his family. Everybody else had thanked their family. So he went and thanked whoever he was thanking. And then like, oh, by the way, we lost. Yeah. So the way it works is Price Waterhouse does the vote tallying. And there's tremendous secrecy safeguards. Like even Academy producers and the show's producers don't know who wins. You know, that's why the announcer even comes on and says, well, La La Land wins Best Picture. And this is, you know, gives the spiel, because, you know, she doesn't know, the producers don't know. But the Price Waterhouse people know, and if the wrong name is called out, their job is to go out there and stop it. So there's one person on each side of the stage, depending on where the presenters come out. And they both have the envelopes. The guy from the side were Warren Beatty and Faye Donnelly. Faye Donnelly and Clyde were the presenters. The guy who hands them the envelope gives them the envelope for Best Actress. Which was immediately preceding. Immediately before that, Emma Stone won Best Actress for La La Land. And they didn't, he already had the envelope because the envelope, the other presenter came out the other side? Yes. Okay. Right. And so he still had that envelope. But why did he still have that? Why didn't he get rid of it? He made a mistake. He screwed up. So did he get fired or did he get fired? He probably did. Because then he screwed up again, but I will. Okay. So you give someone the envelope. So you see Warren Beatty opens it. And first of all, they're expecting the name to be La La Land. It's a huge favorite. But he opens it and it says, Emma Stone, La La Land. And then the category is kind of in the small print at the bottom, Best Actress. So he's kind of just confused. And he wasn't wearing glasses. I don't remember seeing him. I don't remember seeing him wear glasses. I mean, in order to see small print, they're older. I mean, you don't have to be much older to have problems. Yeah. And it's probably confusing that Emma Stone's name was on there. Right. Yeah. It would have the names of the producers. I mean, he probably knows that Emma Stone didn't produce the movie. It was so interesting because his reaction, and of course, he's an actor, and he's elderly. Yes. 137, I think. So he's in his 80s. Right. He doesn't look confused when he opens it. He plays it off as he's kind of teasing with the audience, sort of the performer in him. Exactly. Yeah. The performer in him comes out. So he definitely doesn't, like most of us would be like, you could see the panic in ours. I don't know what to do. But he doesn't play that off. It's almost like he was confused, but covered it with that. And then Faye Dunaway doesn't have any confusion. She just takes it from him and just reads the movie. Because that's what she's expecting to see. And the producers, meanwhile, are trying to move the show along. So I don't doubt. I mean, I would expect that there are people yelling in their ears, hey, move on, or they may be saying, Gordon's freezing up. Can you do this? So you think that might be in her head? Yeah, I don't know for sure. I don't think that she's talked about it before. She could be thinking, okay, he's having a senior moment. I better cover for him, because they're friends and stuff. So she just sees the name she expects to see, which is La La Land, and she calls it out. And then they come up. The Price Waterhouse people at that point are supposed to go out immediately and stop it. The guy who gave him the wrong envelope calls the other Price Waterhouse person and says, I think there's a mistake here. And the person on the other side opens up her Best Picture envelope and sees. He's told, okay, you have to go out and stop it. But this guy's like an accountant. Imagine you just made this big screw up. You have to go on stage at the Academy Awards with people watching all over the world, and go up there and tell the people who are thanking their loved ones, and all the stars are around them. It's like he kind of got a deer in the headlight kind of focus for a while. He is the authority, but he's never... I mean, he doesn't think how intimidating that would be. Yeah. He's never had to exert any authority. Yeah. So eventually, I think while the second guy is... He kind of comes out and doesn't take the microphone. He's probably talking to Beatty and Jimmy Kimmel, the host, first. And then eventually the producers... There's the main producer for La La Land who does kind of announce it. Well, the guy says, we lost, by the way. Yeah. And what they should have done, I think, is do a reset. Start the show over from the beginning? No. What they should have done is, first of all, they should have handled it better. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously, no doubt. But they should have not had the La La Land people say which movie actually won. In an ideal thing, if you're going to do this, it didn't win, go back down, we're going to announce the actual winner, and then let Moonlight have their chance, even though it would be diminished. But that was pathetically diminished. That was diminished. That was so bad. I think if they did it that way, I think people would have known it was Moonlight. Well, I guess at that point, you just never know. You could at least... There's some drama, and who are they going to call? But as they were panning so many people in the audience, you could see they were stunned. And some of them were not stunned. They were like, this is... Hollywood is just a racist culture. And of course, it's going to... You know what I mean? It's like, oh, of course, we're going to give it to the all-white cast, and let them get the glory. And then it's like, oh, yeah, by the way. It's so poorly done. Yeah, it was poorly done. I mean, it never should have happened in the first place. It is interesting to think, say, instead of best actress being second to last, it was best actor, which ended up being Casey Affleck for Manchester by the Sea, which was also best picture nominee. But it was obviously not going to win. It was just not in the conversation. But I think that would actually be so much worse if you called them out, and they're like, wow, this is like a... We never thought in a million years we would have won. And at least, like, La La Land, it's like they're the huge favorites. It's almost like, you know, had they just announced Moonlight, the story would be, oh, La La Land tanked, right? It's this huge favorite, and they're just rejected. Whereas this time, they had a lot of sympathy, but it's kind of humiliating to be kind of up there. Well, we were noting as we were watching it, Jimmy Kimmel seemed not as concerned for the Moonlight cast. He was, the La La Land, you know, he was like, oh, so... You guys should have gotten it, too. Yeah. Well, why don't we let you keep it? That sums up privilege. Yeah, and then at the end, when he's saying, you hate to see people disappointed, and it's like, you're still only thinking about the La La Land cast. Right. Who'd been winning all season? Who'd been winning all season, and... Yeah. It would have been interesting, because Emma Thorne was a frontrunner, but the next likeliest was Natalie Portman, who played Jackie Kennedy in Jackie. Okay. So, like, if it were, if she had won, that'd be interesting, would they... Because that's not a Best Picture nominee, so... That would be... That would have been hilarious. That would have been so awesome if Faye Dunaway had just said, Jackie! And everybody was like... Yeah, who would have figured that right away? But, yeah. Yeah. Really fascinating. I just love that. Oh, so crazy. Yeah. Let's move on. Well, just to look at some of the other stuff from 2016, complete separation between the Best Picture nominees and the Popular Nominees were very much all franchise films. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. Star Wars, Rogue One was the top movie. Then Finding Dory, the sequel to Finding Nemo, was up there. You know, Marvel's Captain America Civil War, you know, a live-action remake. A couple of Disney animated movies with Zootopia and Moana. Hidden Figures actually did crack the top 15. Wow. Eventually. It was a big hit. It was kind of a word-of-mouth hit. Yeah. You know, $170 million. Wow. It was pretty good, so... So, La La Land didn't even get... Yeah, I mean, it was probably not... Uh-huh. Too far down. It made over $100 million, so it was fine. And, yeah, Moonlight didn't make a whole... I mean, it made a huge profit because it's a very cheap movie to make. And I think it made about $36 million or something, like a $2 million budget or something. So, you know, nothing to sneeze at there. That is where we are, almost a half hour into the podcast. This old lady, I was running, hollering, cutting the food, boy. This old lady stopped me. She said, running around, teaching a boy that life. In Moonlight, black boy, you blue. You blue. So, Bonnie, what is Moonlight about? Oh, I just noticed that the picture of it, like the movie poster, shows you all three characters. Yes. And I hadn't noticed that before. I thought they were just doing... Yeah, all three actors. All three actors. I hadn't noticed that before. I thought they were doing... It was just different colors. Yeah. So that's pretty remarkable. Yeah, it was really... The job they did. You don't have to go to the movies. Fantastic graphic design. Different shades of blue. Yeah, right. Yeah, so this is a movie about a boy growing into a man, growing up in this terrible section of Miami. It just follows him from his being bullied, you know, drugged up mother. But it's really kind of about... It's about this... It's not very plot. It's not plot heavy, but it really shows you how the things that happen to you in life influence what you even think about yourself or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, as an adult, how you define yourself. Anyway, so... Yeah, the coming of age or... Yeah, coming of age. But it's different than most coming of age stories. Yeah. But anyway, so that's what it's about. And it follows this young boy. Chiron. Chiron, who... Yeah, and then he's got a friend that is kind of with him all the way through. It shows them as young boys and then as kind of young teenagers and then as adults. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it speaks to a lot of different things. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you make of it? Well, I think it's a really thoughtful movie. It's not... I don't know. I mean, I would watch it again just to see what else I'd pick up on. I did watch it on my own. Yeah. And I do think that helps. So, I don't know. It's just kind of nomadland-y. Yeah. It's a very different movie, in terms of the plot and imagery. But it's a really thoughtful movie. Right. Anyway, everything that I... Afterwards, I was like, wow, it's so interesting. I mean, there was nothing... I enjoyed watching it all the way through. It kept me engaged and all of that. You know, it's interesting. I just kind of Googled it after I watched it. And it was all about LGBT and gay and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, I don't think that captures... It doesn't... That's one element of his identity. But it's not the focus. No, it's not. And it's really... I didn't even see it as about that as much as different experiences clouding him, trying to figure out who... under all these layers that he puts on. It's about identity. In fact, it gives titles for each of the three chapters. And they're all nicknames that he has or two nicknames. And his real name kind of in the middle section. So the first section is Little. Yeah. Second is Chiron. And the third is Black. Right. Right. Because his nickname was Black. But he's given by Kevin. Yeah. And it's also a struggle for intimacy all the way through. Oh, totally. You see that with his mother and with Kevin and with Juan, Teresa, definitely. Right. Yeah, I think it's interesting. And accepting. Exactly. Yeah, it's a great movie, I think, to watch again. Because I just think every time I saw it again a couple of years ago, it hit me a lot harder than the first time I saw it. Which I still liked it the first time I saw it. And on this time, it just really kind of blew me away and just really affected me. I just, it's so kind of unusual to get a movie that's so intensely focused on such an introverted character who's so withdrawn into himself. And just kind of gets us into his emotional perspective and really kind of breaking through that layer to kind of make sense of who this guy is. And it's also, you know, the type of life that is like a statistic, where we kind of talk about how all the inner cities and the single mother who's a drug addict, and this kid grows up in poverty and becomes a drug dealer. But I mean, this really shows the humanity of these individuals, not to either condemn or justify the decisions that he makes and the ways he goes, but just to understand the human dignity that these people have. I just found it very moving. And it also kind of put in focus to me what I didn't like about Midnight Cowboy. Okay. Which is a similar movie in that they're both about people on the lowest rungs of society. Yeah, I found that moving. It's painful. Yeah. And there are things, there are elements of Midnight Cowboy. I mean, there are some images that are still stuck with me, like these two guys on the back of the bus, but only have each other. Yeah. You know, it should be very much effective. What bothered me about that is it's so, there's kind of a discordance between its harsh realism and these very stylistic flourishes that's filled with these flashbacks or dream sequences that are just very, very showy. And I just felt like that didn't work. And it just kind of buries the movie under all this technique. Whereas here, there are definitely stylistic flourishes in terms of the shot making and the use of sound. But it's so integrated. Yeah, or silence, or non-sound. Right. Right. But it's so well integrated into its realism, because even the gritty, this is how the streets are seen, are very much designed. And they're like really very careful use of color. You know, that doesn't detract from the realism. But there is something kind of serial about it, kind of ambient. So that when it does get more stylized, it feels like of a piece. Like the movie has integrity. There's definitely a vision that feels very personal. And I just think that every scene worked for me. Especially going back and watching it again and kind of knowing what Chiron's life is. I just found that very moving. So yeah. Yeah. I felt also like the movie was, it's like it would dare you to have a stereotype about it. A different type of person. And then, you know, not really yank the rug under you, but broaden your perspective without you, you know, it's like you, but it was like it was always daring you to do that. And anyway, it was, and everybody was, you know, there were all these nuanced characters, you know, his mother who was a drug up, you know, she was on drugs and not a good mom and was prostituting herself in their apartment and stuff. But that also kind of showed her, you know, she's just a broken human being, kind of doing the best that she could. And when she confronted Juan, you know, Juan who was, you know, kind of helping him and you think the movie is going to go a certain way, but then you find out Juan's actually a drug dealer. You know, he's more stable in life only because he's made money off of people like, you know, the son's mother and the consequences of actions. And then you just watch, you know, this kid that so withdrawn into himself. But I think that's why I was, you know, that his search for intimacy. He had so few people he could trust. And it's really the one person he achieved intimacy, which wasn't until the final scene where it was really intimate, you know, because the one sort of sexual encounter was not an intimate thing as much as just at the end. And they were hot. They were hot. And it was clearly not about, you know, homosexual versus straight or what it was. Yeah. You know, it was just a thing that happened. But then at the end, they show, you know, he's finally, I don't know. Yeah, it's not even that it's, you know, that he and Kevin are now like a couple. Exactly right. They're just two human beings that have a shared history and they're just connecting with each other. Yeah. And I'm just, yeah. And yeah, it's kind of a really, really moving final shot where it's not, there's nothing sexual about it. No, it's not. It's just very intimate. Yeah, yeah. And just very comforting. And then just, then it's kind of cuts back to one more clip of young Chiron in the moonlight, looking back, kind of looking below. And then it ends. Such a beautiful ending. Yeah. So yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Very different from the, you know, like I like the, of course, I always like the sort of based on a true story tell. Yeah, hidden figures. Hidden figures. Yeah, yeah. That sort of movie will draw me in, but I thought this was really a powerful movie on the human condition and the, you know, we're not made to be alone. And it messes people up when you don't have, you know, loving connections as an, you know, I mean, they talk about that, attachment problems. Yeah. You know, anyway. And then it, you know, he ends up becoming a drug dealer himself, which is sort of like his only father figure ever who taught him a lot of good things. But it was also about, you know, but. Yeah. And, you know, Juan, you know, there's a point where it almost seems like Juan is impossibly good, right? When they're at the table and he gives like almost a perfect response when he's talking about the other kids, calling him a slur. And, you know, he says, hey, that's, you'll never be that slur. You might be gay. You don't have to decide that now. But it's just a great answer for something a kid can't understand. And then they asked him, do you use your drugs? Yeah. And like, he's so turned around on Juan. And then, like, do you sell them to my, or does my mom use them? And you can just see Juan's shame. Yeah. That that's, yeah, I'm just really taken by the character introductions here, where we first see Juan, right, kind of, we're introduced to the world, which is just this impoverished neighborhood that is just infused with drugs. You see a drug dealer, and then Juan drives up in a car that's kind of out of place, a lot nicer than what his surroundings are. And you have this very smooth camera work, very steady and kind of enveloping Juan, kind of moving around as he's talking to his drug dealer. And then you see Chiron being chased by the other boys in the neighborhood. So right away, we're introduced to the world itself. And then you see the top of the hierarchy in Juan and the very bottom, which is this kid who ends up taking shelter in an opium den, this abandoned, boarded up place. And, like, Juan's introduction to Chiron is, you know, really almost literally bringing light to him because he's, the kid is kind of cowering in this dark, abandoned opium den, or drug den, and with boarded up windows. And Juan takes off the boards and, like, kind of pours in. And you see their connection. It's really very, very powerful how those two kind of come together. And then the other character introductions are much more complicated with the mother, who seems to descend as the movie progresses, because at first she seems to be coming back from a job, right? She's concerned when she sees him, but also not as much as you would think a mother would be if you're, like, if one of your sons didn't come home for a night. If he's police involved. Yeah, well, yeah, she's definitely not going to call the police. But it's like, it's almost like somebody who's not equipped for parenthood is, like, trying to be a good mother. And she's kind of wearing a badge from whatever she works, wherever she's working. And then by the middle section of the movie, she's definitely not working. And they're in a different, worse, even worse place, kind of locked up projects and stealing money from him. And then our introduction to Kevin is kind of on this playground, or on the field. And he's, like, he says, you know, Chiron, you gotta show them that you're not soft. And Chiron says, but I'm not soft. And he goes, well, that doesn't matter. It matters what they think you are. And so you have, like, there's two influences on him. Kind of, you have Juan, who's very self-possessed, you know, find out who you are and be that person. Whereas Kevin is much more, be focused on who everyone else thinks you are and portray that version of yourself that you want. So it's almost like, put up the right kind of facade. It's so weird, because it's actually flipped of who they become as adults. Yeah. Kevin and Juan. Well, exactly. Yeah. But I mean, you do see that kind of a tendency with Kevin, where in the middle section, he's definitely presenting a view of himself as this ladies' man, you know, that's very much externalized. And when we see him again, he's certainly matured and grown up into an adult. He is kind of still, he starts with his story. This is who I am now. I'm not suggesting that any of that's false, but he's, you know, he's inventing or he's performing who I am as Kevin. I've made some mistakes, but, you know, I'm good with the mother of my child and I'm a cook and I don't make a lot of money, but I make enough. And, you know, not to say that any of that, I don't think he's lying, but his thing is that outward persona. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, Sharon is just kind of like in between the two of them. You know, he does seem to be more influenced by Juan, but he does seem to be kind of pretending or kind of putting himself into Juan. You know, they both have that little crown on the dashboard of their car. Right, which is a similar type of car. And yeah, but then we also see, I thought it was, you know, and then, of course, spoiler alert, people should watch the movie before moving on with this. But, you know, it was so interesting how they just didn't deal with the death of Juan. That was so fascinating. Yeah. It was just, you get to the next thing and then it just kind of becomes revealed. You're wondering where Juan is. We see Teresa. It talks about him in the past tense, but we don't know. Right. We're like, not, is he at work? You know, we don't know. But then we find out that he had a funeral, right? So he's clearly died. But we never find out. We never find out. But it is assumed that, you know, which is the ending that, you know, Chiron by the, towards the end of the movie seems to be on this trajectory, which we already know how it ends. It's, you know, you just descend into this until that it's really kind of hopeful at the end that intimacy is like, maybe he can alter his inevitable path towards an early death. Right. An early pointless death. Yeah. Yeah. I love the swimming lesson. Yeah. It's so beautifully shot. It's almost like the kid has his feet on the ground at some point, so they can't be too far out, but it's kind of shot at water level. So it almost looks like they're out in the middle of the ocean and the water's kind of lapping up against the camera. And it's just, it's, it has, it's, it's so kind of magical and just like one of, you could tell it's one of the warmest memories. And it kind of presents swimming as like, you know, his kid is floating on the water for the first time. It's like he's, he's learning a superpower, right? Yeah. You know, it's, it's just so, so magical. I just, I just really got so much out of almost every scene that's just really thoughtfully put together. I really got a lot out of it. So I was, yeah, I remember at the time I was, I was rooting for La La Land. I still, I, I liked that movie quite a bit. But yeah, I definitely think this is a much, much stronger achievement. So did this outperform your expectations as far as where it ranks? Yeah, I had it at 26. Okay. For my, which is pretty good ranking, but I would definitely have it higher. I think, I think 17, I said, well, I might even have it higher now. I mean, I, No Country for Old Men, that's one of my favorite movies, but I couldn't put it up close to that. I was very, very, very pleased with it. Yeah, cool. Well, this is definitely a movie I would have never watched. Exactly. Yeah, but I, I like that you got something out of it. I do find that casuals don't like the movie at all. Yeah, and I am a casual. Yeah, or you were at one point. Yeah, well, but I also teach Christian Anthropology. So yeah, there's interesting things there. Yeah, it was very anthropological. So like, those are the things that strike me in this movie. I mean, I miss, you know, when you describe the, sort of the, the scene with the lapping of the waves and stuff, and I'm like, oh, I, you know, I, I appreciate that more. You know, like, I don't, I don't catch on to any of, you know, the way the camera moves and smooth shots, and that's all lost to me. But I've also seen that four times. Yeah, I do like the exploration of the, you know, just humanity. But I didn't like, really, Moonlight Cowboy. Is that what it's called? No, yeah. Yeah, a lot of how I feel about Moonlight is, I see people who love Moonlight Cowboy describe it. I just don't see that movie in there. I think that there's a kernel of it that, I think there is something sympathetic about those two characters. I just think it's very behind the 60s technique and trends and stuff. Also, too much of it is just kind of in your face. The thing that I like about Moonlight is that it doesn't shove anything at you. It just kind of, it treats you as more of an intelligent watcher. Exactly. Well, you know, it's a movie that, it deals with racism, but there's no, like, racist character for you to hate. Right. When it has LGBT issues, there's no homophobe or, like, a preacher telling him he's going to hell or anything like that. And when it deals with poverty, there's not, like, an Ebenezer Scrooge or, like, a giant corporation that's trying to do this. It doesn't point fingers or wag fingers, just showing the, on the ground, the human beings that are dealing with these things. There are definitely causes and systemic things, but in a way, to which I know that doesn't really matter. It's just this human life that I have and how do I... And it's, you know, your, how you identify your, you know, that's not your identity. Your sexuality is not your identity in this movie. Right, yeah. I mean, your identity is very complicated. Exactly, right, yeah. So it doesn't dumb it down to, like, oh, I figured out I'm this, therefore I'm going to act in a certain way that, you know, that can often be stereotypically, you know, and it kind of pushes against that. I mean, I don't think the movie even... It's not clear that he is gay. Right. Right. Like Vaughn says, you know, you'll know when you need to know. I mean, it does say that the experience he had with cavernous is only... His only experience, yeah. His only experience, I think, with anybody. Right, right. But he's really... You know, he must be 30 at that point, right? I mean, they're not... Yeah, I mean, yeah, because he had gone to prison, and then he said he kind of worked his way up on a drug. Right. And just, like, looking at them, they don't... They're not... They don't look mid-20s anymore, so they're, you know... So it's not like he's... Yeah, and Kevin had gone to jail, too. Right, and it's not like he's fully... You know, like, nowadays, it's like you're either immersed in one subculture or another, and then they just kind of shatter all those. Yeah. Like, it's not about that. Right. The movie, I'm not really... I see many limericks about movies like this, because it's so personal, and... Yeah, this one... And the limericks are so jaunty, but, you know, I did it for whatever it's worth. Yeah, this... Out of a sense of obligation, I guess. I feel like Chad GPT had a tough time with this one. Yeah. So, let me read the Chad GPT's. In Miami's moonlit embrace, Chiron's journey, a delicate grace. From youth to manhood's plight, moonlight's tender light, a limerick for a poignant case. Moonlight's tender light, a limerick for a poignant case. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to do. Yeah. Okay. And I'm pronouncing that right, Chiron? Chiron. Yeah, Chiron. There once was a young boy named Chiron, who spends much of his life all alone. At school, he's rejected. At home, he's neglected. Someday, he may come into his own. Oh, that's lovely. Oh, thanks. You again. That one was not even close. Yeah. Yeah, that's a hard one. Yeah. I mean, I guess Unforgiven has dark subject matter, but it's much more, you know, like a remote story, you know, that's personal. Okay, but we've had... Kind of... Yeah, like 12 Years a Slave, it's hard to write a limerick about. Yeah. We've had a few movies in a row of kind of heavy matter. Yeah. So we're due for a lighthearted... Yeah. ...the best years of our lives, assuming that that's lighthearted. Is that not lighthearted? I don't know. Well, we'll see. The look that you gave me. I mean, any haul would be lighthearted. Okay. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. But at any rate, Moonlight won, or no, Moonlight was nominated for eight Oscars. Okay. Tied with a rival for second, well behind La La Land's 14. Oh, really? So the other ones were... Less than eight. Okay, yeah. Yeah. That's a good showing. Yeah. So two acting nominations. Okay. Who? Was... Juan? Yes. Rehearsal, Ollie. Okay. He won Best Supporting Actor. Oh, did he? Yeah. Okay. Did you recognize him from House of Cards? No. House of Cards? Oh. Yeah. From House of Cards. He was like a... What was he? Like an age... I recognized him. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. He was like a... He was that rich... Was he the rich... He had a relationship with a white woman. It's been a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a fairly substantial owner. Yeah, he ended up working as a wealthy consultant or something like that. Anyway. Okay, yes. I did recognize him. I didn't know what it was from House of Cards. Okay. And then another one. I don't know. Adult showroom? No, it was... Naomi Harris was nominated for playing his mother. Oh, okay, yeah. Her best supporting actress. She was great. Yeah, she was terrific. She ended up losing to Viola Davis for Offenses. Okay. It was also terrific, yeah. And then, as I said earlier, Casey Affleck and Emma Stone were the leading categories. So they were my only ones for best picture, the supporting actor, and screenplay. Okay. Adapted screenplay. Score was so beautiful that I lost... I remember I beat it for cinematography, too. That was great. For film editing. For film editing. I remember those were all... Original score is tough when you're going up against an original musical. Yeah. But this was a really beautiful score. Yeah. Um, so, anyways, let's... Can... Let's... Do... Name that tune. Oh, gosh, 2016. The best song winner from 2016. Can you name this tune? City of stars, are you shining just for me? City of stars, there's so much that I can't see. There's city and stars. Yeah. Is that LA? I just pulled up. I'm in search for city. That's not LA. Yeah, they're sitting in a river. Yeah. I have no idea what city that is. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that won best song and lost best picture. Yes, it did. So this is... We're down to one movie from the 2010s. Okay. We're almost done with the decades. We know their final order. So just to review this last, most recent complete decade, on our best picture countdown, bringing up the rear at number 80 was Green Book. Okay. From 2018. Shape of Water came in at number 73 from 2017. Never saw that. Yeah. I kind of got close to where you would have to watch it. But yeah, you didn't. Yeah. Okay. But we did see The King's Speech. Yeah. He met number 62. I like that one better than yours. Yeah. Slight disagreement on it. It's from 2010. And then a couple of weeks after that, we talked about Argo from 2012. Oh, yeah. He met number 60. Yeah, I think we both kind of liked it. Yeah. It's pretty good. And then shortly after that, Lindsay joined us to talk about Birdman, or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance from 2014. Yeah. That was number 56. We did that one with Lindsay. Yeah. Yeah. And then a couple of weeks after that, we talked about The Artist. Oh, yeah. 2011. Another one you liked better than I did. Yeah. But I kind of felt like you did after my first viewing. Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of an interesting how it executes its concept. After which it's kind of... Yeah. One, two, three, four, five, six. After The Artist, we didn't talk about the 2010s for a long time. Not until we got to number 33. Spotlight. Great movie. From 2015. Really good movie. Again, Lindsay joined us. Oh, yeah. And then a few weeks after that, we talked about 12 Years a Slave from 2013. Another great movie. So Lindsay's been on with us for three times? Yes. Because she also did Gladiator. Yeah. Okay, 12 Years a Slave. Yeah, so that's... Really good movie. That's the bronze medal for the decade. Okay. And then we just talked about, of course, Moonlight here at number 17. Okay. 2016. And then the last thing left... Oh, Parasite. The best Best Picture winner of the decade is Parasite from 2019. I think it might be. By far the most recent movie on the list. Yeah. I think the second most recent movie left us in this list. So as we do, I'm going to guess Parasite's final position. Okay. And then you guess above or below. Yes. So I'm optimistic. I know that the movie is very much below us, but also I do think I may have weighted the AFI both lists too high, which I wouldn't be eligible for. But I'm going to be optimistic and say it's going to come in at number 10. Wow. I think I'll make the top 10. Okay. And you don't know Parasite from a hole in the wall, but you think it will do better than that or worse than that? I think it'll do worse than that. Okay. That's what I thought you'd say. But we'll see. So I think The Silence of the Lambs is coming up next. That was my guess. Okay. We'll see. I get to choose one more. Tough. You do. Yeah. So what do you think is coming up next? I can't see the list now. I think it's going to be. So I've got Parasite, The Best Years of Our Lives, Schindler's List, and Gone with the Wind. Yeah. And I'm going to add One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Okay. Because I've got to pick something. You've got to pick something. I can have at least five. Yeah. Right here. All right. It's going to be one of those. Yeah. It's not a crazy pick. Do you think it's going to be The Silence of the Lambs? No pun intended. Yeah. All right. Now we get to see what's coming up next. Oh. Whoa. Embrace from the River Kwai. Whoa. That was not on either of our lists. It was on my list before I turned them in. Yeah. I don't get credit for it. You don't. Because I turned it down. But yeah. Embrace from the River Kwai from 1957. Okay. And there's still three movies from the 50s that's still left. Is that one from that one? Yep. Yeah. It was done in that movie. Okay. So this is another Heavy Matter movie though. Oh, you'll like it. It's kind of an adventure too. Prisoner of War movie. Yeah. But there's a mission and you've seen that, right? I have seen it. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. They got to blow up a bridge or save a bridge. But there is a bridge on the River Kwai. And I like it. It's been a long time since I've seen it. It's probably been about 10 or 15 years. Okay. Well, well, enjoy it. We'll be back next week with the Bridge on the River Kwai with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yeah. Bye everyone. Goodbye.