truman-brain-s-exceptional-mind

The transcription is about a podcast episode featuring a guest named Truman who shares his personal experience of living with and overcoming anorexia nervosa. The host, Shanie Wright, expresses gratitude for Truman's willingness to have an open discussion and hopes that his story will encourage and challenge stereotypes about mental health. Truman talks about his motivation to control his eating and exercise, feeling like he wasn't good enough, and the dangerous aspect of constantly changing goalposts. He also mentions experiencing brief moments of feeling good enough when he achieved certain goals. Truman's extreme dedication to his goals, such as walking in zigzags to get more exercise, is highlighted. Hi, I'm Shanie Wright, chartered psychologist, teacher and coaching psychologist. I'll be talking to incredible guests who I believe have exceptional minds. They have achieved personal success, whether that means living with chronic health conditions, challenges on the mental health, showing up to pursue their dreams and achieve huge business, academic or sporting success. The aim of the podcast is for listeners to develop a more complete and compassionate understanding of psychology, which is beyond the textbook and their own prism. This episode was recorded during the COVID-19 lockdown. So please forgive the sound quality, which is affected by recording over the internet. Some of the audio is clunky due to connection issues and omitted poor quality sections. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. I would love to hear how this conversation has influenced your thinking or even beyond that. Today, I will be listening to Truman's personal experience living with and overcoming anorexia nervosa. Great care has been taken to do what I can to ensure this is not triggering for anyone and doesn't include any statistics. However, if you are affected, or relate to what has been discussed, please do seek professional advice from your GP or a specialist. There are links on the show notes page to signpost you for support. If you're concerned about someone else, please do not keep your thoughts to yourself. People can get very ill quickly. Today, I will be listening to Truman's personal experience living with and overcoming anorexia nervosa. It is such a privilege to have this conversation with Truman. I have utmost respect for his willingness to have such an open discussion and to share his personal and private story with the world. I hope Truman provides encouragement to someone else showing that is light at the end of the tunnel. I believe hearing from people like Truman will help challenge stereotypes and reduce the ubiquitous mental health stigma evident in common parlance. Hi, Truman. Welcome to the Exceptional Mind podcast. I'm certain this conversation is going to have an incredible impact on the listeners. We are all living in a world where there is so much judgment and pressure around scale, weight, body shape and beauty. You have transformed your health and life as you have overcome anorexia nervosa. I'm incredibly grateful and humbled for you taking the time today to share your personal story. How are you? Yeah, I'm really well, thank you. I'm quite honoured to be on the podcast of the honour. I'm very excited. I'm glad to hear you're well, but truly the honour is mine. I wondered if you could start there, summarising a bit of your personal story, whatever you feel comfortable with. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I was about 12 years old when I got it. I was at school in year eight, I think I was. And basically I just to change, you know, something I could control. And I suppose eating and exercising was definitely that. Like for me, it wasn't like the stereotypical anorexia story, if you like, where you look at like these people you want to look like and, you know, try and change to them. I just wanted to control what I could control. I've always exercised my family and stuff before this, so that was something I was quite used to doing. So I guess I upped that a lot. And then eating wise, again, that was just something I could easily control. I'd just like to pick up on what you said, Truman, not being a stereotypical anorexia story, wanting to look like particular people. I think it's really important that listeners are aware that there isn't one stereotype, one type of person living with anorexia nervosa. People have different experiences, different goals in mind, etc. When you were talking about feeling like not fitting in, understanding how the social side, the joke telling, etc, works, was there any element around body image or was it solely social confusion? I think there were aspects of how I looked in there as well. So obviously, I guess, when you get to year eight, you know, some of the guys in the school are obviously starting to, you know, develop men's bodies a lot quicker than others and stuff. I suppose I wasn't one of them people. So there was definitely an aspect of that in there. But I think at the core, I think it was mainly feeling like I wasn't good enough, feeling like I wasn't, none of my thoughts were good enough. I think that was the main thing, really. In general, I just felt like I wasn't where I should have been and that I needed to change something. Yes, I'm guessing that change links to the feelings of control, which you just mentioned, believing you could change what you were eating and exercising. So that's those opportunities for change. Definitely, yeah. And I think back then, obviously, I was quite young. And I think what I didn't realise back then, you see, was that a lot of these things that I was, I decided to change externally. It's actually an internal battle. Back then, I guess, you know, I guess you're quite naive to the world in some senses. Yeah, I guess I just focused on an external, something that I could change. And like you said, about a minute ago, exercise was something I always enjoyed. And I always got a relief from it as well. Food, I don't know why, but I guess I sort of got a feeling with food. I sort of felt like it was a bit of a competition in a sense, which was a bit interesting. So I'm sure a lot of guys my age wouldn't think like that. But, you know, like if I ate less or something, I sort of won a competition, perhaps a little bit. Perhaps not everyone will understand that. But yeah, I got that sort of feeling with it, really. And then I guess I felt good when I sort of won. So then, you know, in combination, the two together, it's not going to go well for your health, really. And that's really interesting as well, because I think, again, when you look at those stereotypes, people have this stereotype that somebody's on a diet. They think someone's anorexic, they're on a diet. And this wasn't about a diet for you. This was a competition. Yeah. So, you know, if you think about a diet, you know, people on diets, obviously, it's really hard, and they often don't succeed. But when the frame is actually about a competition, and if you think about, you know, an athlete who's, you know, competing with themselves, they want to run a bit faster, and then they get to, you know, run that distance a bit faster, and then they want to go and run a bit further, and then they want to run that further distance faster, etc. So when you're in a competition, it's very different, isn't it? The goalposts are constantly changing, very different to being on a diet, I would assume. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I guess that's another difference between my story and perhaps a generic story. I know, obviously, not every story is the same, like every story is different. I agree with what you say, really. I think the other thing is, it's quite dangerous, because, as you were just saying, the goalposts are always changing. So once you've completed one goal, it's never enough. And, you know, like I said earlier, I think the fact that really, it's an issue to be solved internally, but because for me, I saw it as an external issue, I was never going to get enough, you know, I mean, I was always going to want more and more and more. And obviously, because I was in the mindset of thinking I would get enough eventually, I guess I just kept going for it very rapidly lost a lot of weight, really. Yeah, I think the fact that I thought I was in a competition as well, would give me a lot of drive. And I'm not, I'm not sure how my story compares with others in terms of how quickly I am, you know, once I discovered these feelings sort of went along with them. But I know that I did lose weight very, very quickly, actually, I think quite a lot of my, like my counsellors and doctors and people like that, people at First Steps were told about the story. So it was actually quite a very quick loss of weight. And like you say, I had a lot of drive for it, because I think I sort of all my problems in life, I sort of put onto that in my head, it was, you know, happiness is at the end of this journey, really. So I'll do whatever I can to get there quicker. And was there any points during this time when you had this drive around you when you did feel good enough? Yeah, I think there were elements like I think to someone who hasn't had this, it might sound a little crazy. But you know, at lunchtimes, if I hadn't had something in my lunch or whatever, or, you know, if I'd done a bit more exercise than someone else, I would I'd get a brief moment of that feeling, you say, yeah, or feeling all right, I guess I put myself above them, you see, sort of fed my ego a little. Gosh, it sounds like you were so focused on your goals. Yeah, to be honest, it was quite at some points, it was quite comical, actually, in a dark sort of way, like, it got to the point where, like, I'd be walking down an alleyway with a mate. And I remember this one time, I'd literally be walking behind him zigzagging, so I could get more exercise. Obviously, it's quite, it's quite an interesting, I imagine for, you know, some people that think what on earth is going on here? And were you were you aware of that at the time? So I was, I was quite aware that it would have looked a bit weird. I think to start with, I would have definitely, you know, the approval of others was definitely like one of the drives. But I think I got so lost in it that I just started to not really care. I remember one of my mates saying to me, like, what are you doing? Yeah. And I was just thinking, I was just like, I just generally just didn't care. I just gave him any answer I could, like, you know, to keep the conversation going. But I just think I got to a stage where I was so high encompassed with it. I kind of lost sight of why I did it in the first place, really. So there's a real conflict there, isn't there? Because you're wanting the approval from others. You feel like you've got this, you know, need for this approval. But at the same time, you're developing behaviours which you feel are quite, you know, coming across it, you feel quite like shameful behaviours that you feel would be quite judged. Definitely. So therefore, you've got the drive for it. But at the same time, those things are now in conflict. Definitely. And then obviously, like you just said, the conflict in your head, then you're sort of in another two places, really. I was never really in one place. I mean, I was a bit lost in my head, or very lost, and had, you know, these two different directions. So internal conflict is definitely a good way to describe that. Indeed, it does sound like a constant conflict, which you're trying to deal with. You've mentioned the counsellors and the doctors who are supporting you. So I'm curious to know, how did it go from kind of it all manifesting at the start of year eight to accessing services? Did you ask for support? Or was this something, you know, did other people notice that you were struggling? So basically, what happened was, I saw a doctor before I went to a counsellor. And this was probably maybe a couple of months into it. I saw a doctor because my parents saw my weight was going low. And obviously, things like when your weight drops, obviously, things like bruises and stuff take much longer to heal and stuff. So obviously, your body's not getting all everything it needs from your food that you'd normally eat. So you know, repair and tissues and all that, that gets too scientific. So I did see a doctor, I remember that. And I remember the doctor wasn't quite sure what was going on. I don't think he quite understood the mental condition, really. Yeah. To be honest, I don't think I understood it. I think it might have been quite hard to detect, really, because I think he would have just seen, you know, an underweight boy who was just a bit lost, really, you know, and I wouldn't have been honest with him about my feelings or anything like that. It was very difficult for him to tell, really. So I remember seeing the doctor and I remember the real thing started when I was very ill. And obviously, at this time, I can't really remember how I looked or anything because, you know, I think body dysmorphia really kicks in about, you know, around the halfway stage kind of thing. I was taken to a counsellor by my parents, because presumably my parents sort of twigged it on, and I haven't actually spoken to them that much about it. I presume, you know, they did a bit of research on it online, perhaps, and thought, you know, when your kid is that drastically underweight, something needs to change, really. Because obviously, I think any more and it's starting to become very dangerous. So from the doctor, I didn't really, there wasn't any advancement in recovery from him as such. I think he just sort of left it as, you know, he's just, you know, a guy with that sort of brain. So from there, to getting to the counsellor, I lost more weight, my mental state became worse. You know, my thoughts about other people were becoming less, I suppose. So I guess I might have appeared rude. And then, so I guess getting to the counsellor was just the point where I was really at the pinnacle of my weight loss, very low weight, and my mental state was very atrocious, really, very angry at people all the time, short tempered. I want to go out and do the exercise and eat less. If anyone gets in my way, you know, I mean, I'm not happy about it. So as soon as I got to that stage, that was when I was taken to the counsellor. So was there anybody in your life that was really useful to you at the time, supporting you through this? Funny enough, actually, I was thinking about this the other day, there were quite a lot of people that would look out for me, like at school and stuff. Because obviously, you've always got like, you guys sort of mess around a bit and joke about and that. There were certain people I do remember now that were very supportive. And it was quite funny, actually, because I remember at one point, I used to like, I'd try and come up with excuses to do the exercises, because I still, I guess there was an overlap, because I still wanted the approval for a lot to begin with, you know, before I'd let go of that. So I remember saying things like, I'm putting this in the bin, the environment and stuff like that. But I think some people might have clocked on. I know that there were people that I remember that were very, that were quite caring. It's my surprise, really, because I guess, in my head, I just sort of thought, you know, I was a nobody. Yeah, I do remember there being a certain few at school that would, you know, ask me if I was okay and stuff, which really meant a lot to me at the time. Obviously, that goes against your core beliefs of, you know, everyone hates you and all that. I remember, I used to go to church, actually. I remember there was a couple of people at church who I used to think were very supportive people. Often in church, I do feel like there is quite a lot of supportive people there. So I felt like there was a lot of love and support there. I think, you know, because I didn't really understand the issue myself, it's obviously very hard for someone else to understand the issue. And like you said, your behaviours that you're engaging on, you've got this focus to do everything, any opportunity for exercise, you know, going to be the person to put something in the bin, making, zigzagging when you're walking. So you've got these behaviours that are driven by this kind of challenge, but they're conflicting with behaviours that somebody would approve of. So you're trying to make them behaviours, you're trying to reframe them to be behaviours that somebody would approve of, kind of knowing that they're not. And you just, it just sounds like a real conflict all the time. So for people to have been seeing that and really supporting you is just kind of really shows what a valuable person that you were to them. Yeah, that's very nice thing to say. I guess so, yeah. If there is someone listening to this, Truman, who is worried about their friend or relative that they believe may be going through something similar to you, what would you advise them? Patience, I think is something that I think a lot of people would agree on. I think it's very important to, as you know, they're obviously going through a very difficult time. They need someone who's just going to be with them and be non-judgmental, like not quiz them on anything, which I appreciate is very difficult to do. After that, I would say it's very important to let them know you are their friend and you are there for them. And if you can find alternatives for them that are useful, I think that's good to let them know. But I think it's good to make sure you don't push them down a path. Make sure you let them know it's their decision. Just show them the path. I know for me, in my experience, I know the worst thing would be if somebody confronted me directly and that would send me down a spiral even worse, because obviously it firms a lot of your negative thoughts and things because you're not in a good mental state. I would say if you are going to say something that is a little challenging or something that they may want you to hear, I would make sure you say it in a way that's very, like you're showing them an alternative, not saying you're going down this path. Patience, showing them the alternative, not telling them or being confrontational, because that would be judgmental, wouldn't it? If you're going to give somebody advice that is loaded with judgment. Obviously, my experience is different to everyone else's, but I still fear judgment. It became behind my need for approval towards the end, but my judgment there was still quite big for most of the journey. I remember once or twice people who did get it right for me, in my opinion, who made me consider going on a better path and they were always people that showed me a route, but let me know it was more than my choice. Because obviously control is a big thing as well. For me, it was. So making sure that the other person feels like they're totally in control, but just like here's a route. I think this would be a good route for you, but obviously it's totally up to you, mate. I think that's something that I would, I did, some people did do that sort of approach to me. I feel like that they were the sort of people that I contacted, you know, after the journey and really, that really helped me to get placed into the people again after, really. Yeah. Yeah. I think people find that really useful to hear. What kind of things were helpful to you? I think for me, I think not doing it alone was the main thing. Until this point, even though I had, you know, people were looking out for me, I think I was, I felt very alone. There was actually an answer for my problems instead of, I guess the answer I was looking for before I realized that that was, that wasn't perhaps the right way to go about it. So it was quite, it was quite a relief to sort of start to let go and realize that I could actually go a different path to being happy. Being with other people made me realize that not always to trust your own thought, it's good to make sure you get your blind spot checked from your friends, really. And luckily for me, obviously, my parents taking me to the counselor obviously enabled me to talk with a lot of different people. Yeah. So I guess the main thing for me was knowing that I wasn't alone and knowing that other people were there and knowing that you can't always trust your own thoughts. A lot of your thoughts don't actually lead you to a good place, really. So, you know, and if you think certain, people think certain way about you, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. It's just what your interpretation is from what your core beliefs are, really. It was quite happy for me, quite a happy moment to realize a lot of these things. I think perhaps before that I'd lived quite a while not thinking that. So it was nice to be able to start, you know, trusting people again with my honest feelings. So the main thing is talking to other people, really. Yeah. Not doing it alone. So were there challenges during your recovery? So, you know, you've talked about things that are really helpful and it's these people around you that are showing you a different path without judgment and the relief of that. What were the hard parts of your recovery? Being, obviously, not forced as in like, you know, you've got to eat this, but I guess I like force. Obviously I wasn't like forced at one point, but I was very strongly suggested to eat things. I think that was very difficult. That was very hard for me to give up because before, until that point, that was my outlet for dealing with, you know, the way the world is. So it was a very, while eating or something might not seem that big to a lot of people, for me, I'd let it become my, you know, my method of dealing with it. A big challenge was eating. And obviously your stomach's quite small, you're very light framed, so you don't really want to eat that much. And I remember there being like certain targets and stuff that you have to eat a decent amount, really. So it was quite uncomfortable physically. But the main issue really with that one was obviously mentally, you don't feel hungry because, you know, all the things that I guess in your mind that would normally give a healthy person's mind hunger, I guess a lot of them, you shut down in your own mind over time. So for me, it was very difficult eating food when everything about me didn't want to eat food. And, you know, I guess I'd believe that the happiness I wanted came at the end of not eating. So that was quite difficult. Exercise cut down was hard because obviously exercise does, even for a healthy mind, a lot of relief. So that was very difficult. Feeling like I was letting everyone down because now I felt like I was, now I wasn't in control. I felt like I was very happy with people supporting me and stuff. I felt like I was being forced into a recovery, really. I didn't feel like it was something I was ready for. Of course. So I felt like in a sense, well, obviously now I know a lot of people love me and want the best for me. I think back then it was more about, you know, why can't you let me make my own decisions? Like, and you genuinely believe that it's not for your best. That sounds really hard. Do you remember any strategies which you found really helpful at the time to deal with these challenges? Well, funnily enough, actually, my parents had some good ideas. Like one idea was, like once a week or so, I'd see a friend, like a friend would come around or I'd be taken to cinema by, you know, an older friend or something. Another thing, music, was around the time, in year eight, I, the guitar, in year eight before a lot of this, before I let myself spiral down, really. And that, I would say, is such a great idea that was. In terms of my journey, I think that was a very, very big asset. Because I think to start with, it was a very good, like the friends and stuff, it was a very good distraction, feel a bit of freedom in your head. But I think in reality, I think while I kept thinking it was escapism back then, I think I actually, it was actually a very good tool to learn to deal with what was going on inside, which I cannot recommend music enough. I really, even if you're someone that doesn't want to play an instrument or whatever, as a tip for anyone that would struggle, you know, struggle with similar feelings to me, I would definitely say, listening to music, I'd recommend playing an instrument, but obviously a lot of people don't want to do that. For me, it was a very useful tool and it was a time where I could really start to develop a bit of a relationship with myself, which for me is what I think the real cure is, really. Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant. Yes, that relationship where you can really see value in yourself and feel the approval yourself without needing that from other people, feeling that value and acceptance. I think any way that you can learn to connect with your inner self. Well, for me, that was something that really helped. And I think it's funny, actually, because at the time, I don't think I really understood the value of it. I think looking on it now and, you know, knowing what I know now from my life experience and stuff, I realised how important that would have actually been. And like you say, if anything else, it's actually a bit of escapism, which is always nice. I know, obviously, it's not confronting your issues, but when you're in a very negative place like that, I think it's very important to give yourself a break and, you know, just to realise that life isn't all, you don't have to be in fear all your life, really, you know, judgment or whatever, like there is peace out there, you know. Wow, powerful stuff, Truman. And indeed, truly connecting with your inner self and removing fear of judgment is extremely freeing. Very, very wise. So you started playing the instrument, your parents were supporting you with different strategies to help you around eating more and exercising less and the distractions, etc. How did you go from that point to recovery? This is quite an interesting way, actually, I was thinking about this. Basically, in my opinion, so physically, I recovered quite quickly from that point you were talking about. It wasn't actually very long until I got the, until I got myself up to a physical, deemed acceptable weight by counsellors. But I would say the actual, the mental journey, which I believe is the most important part, because that's why you get there in the first place. That took a long time, actually. Looking back on it now, I'd often go around thinking that I was covered a lot sooner than I was, you know, physically, I was fine. And while I had a few dips, once I got to my target weight, I never really, you know, had any major dips like back to start again, really, I just had quite a lot of, you know, like everyone who does anything, you know, it's always going to be an up and down journey, but with a, you know, heading upwards direction, I think the actual mental recovery, I'm not sure what the definition is of recovery to that, because obviously, physically, I did recover very quickly. Obviously, due to the fact, perhaps, that I wasn't in that state for very long, my, I was able to rewire my brain and, you know, learn that food wasn't, food restriction and exercise and overdosing wasn't the way forward. But I think the mental issues that I was running away from, I think a lot of that stuff, I've actually took a long time to finally, you know, turn around and face inside myself. I think you've raised something which is really interesting. I think, you know, you said, you don't know what the definition of recovery is. Everyone's got their idea of what recovery is. And I think what's more important is what that means to you. Well, the thing is, for me, it's interesting. And again, this one might be a little controversial. I think a lot of people would disagree with me on that. See, in my opinion, I see it as, with anorexia, I see it as that being a form of, you know, not dealing with who you are inside, really, and letting yourself be yourself. I would say that is a form of that. And for me, I would say, in truth, I'd say that's something I've really concerned with over the last sort of couple of years, really. You know, people think of anorexia as a scale weight. And if you look at the definition, it's about a scale weight. But actually, it's not. This didn't start for you because of the scale weight, it started for you because of how you're feeling. And then it was just something that you could do, almost. It was like you were doing this to get the control and etc. So you were helped to deal with eating and gaining the weight and getting to a healthy weight. That wasn't the end of anorexia. The anorexia, like you said, it's a bigger thing. And it took a lot longer. Oh, definitely. Yeah. And I think it's so important to realise this. I think I often used to think once you're at your target weight, and you'd stay there for a couple of years, that's it, recovered. And that was always my sort of mindset. And I guess I got a lot of praise for my journey, I guess. But obviously, everyone's going to have their own opinion, you see. Like you say, my opinion is, if you really want to be content, which I think we all want to be content and that's really the goal, you have to turn around and face these issues that you're running away from. Yeah, so that's why it's quite hard to say recover, like you say, because in your mental state, I think, like with me, I think my form of that then turned into other mental issues and things, you see. So I think instead of dealing with the issues, I saw myself as recovered, I kept running away from these issues in my head, but just used methods that were least physical, hard to detect. So yeah, I guess it's quite complicated on that one, really. I consider what you've raised is so important. This is the reason why it's so valuable for people to hear real lived stories, rather than relying solely on textbooks or clinical diagnostic tools. Of course, they have their place in educating people and diagnosing individuals. But the definitions are often either vague in some senses or rigid, as in your experience of understanding that if you gain the weight, you'd be recovered. And when the psychological side is unresolved, you're less not knowing what to do with that and engage in new strategies to cope, which may be unhealthy or unhelpful. You know, a lot of people would have that textbook definition in their heads and think like these mental illnesses can be cured by, you know, curing the physical side only really, or a bit of therapy on the side, you know what I mean? But obviously, the reality of the situation is, if you've got a mental issue, you know, you must solve it internally, otherwise it will always come out in some other form. So if you consider your personal definition of recovery, do you believe that you can be recovered or that you are recovered? Yes, I definitely do. I think yes, to that answer. I would say my relationship with food is no longer an issue. I mean, obviously, I have odd days. I'll eat at different times, things like that. In terms of my output for my issues definitely is no longer dependent on food. So in that sense, I would say, yes, I've recovered from the anorexia. Going a little deeper, you know, I guess we've all got issues to some degree. But yeah, I've still obviously got a lot of issues in my life. But yeah, I'd say I've recovered from anorexia. So like you said, you know, everybody has things going on in their life. You know, look at what's going on now with Covid, you know, this unbidden kind of huge social change for everybody. Just like we all have, we have bad times or challenges. We have days that we feel we have that critical voice that's in our heads. What self-care strategies do you engage with now to kind of protect you? And it's funny, actually, some of these might seem a little bit unorthodox. That's fine. But for me, I'm really struggling. I like to because I've realized in my in my opinion, anyway, I've realized that the root of all this is all to do with the relationship with yourself, which I believe is the most important thing, really. And obviously, different people might have different opinions on that. But I would say a strategy I like to use is 20 minutes. I like to find some air comfortable in a room by myself, you know, open the window. I'll get out a notebook and I'll let myself, every single thing I think, I'll write down, like make sure you don't judge yourself. So it can be some really, you know, screwed up thoughts if you've got them. And literally write literally everything you think down. And after 20 minutes, and don't get me wrong, it's quite a difficult thing to do. It's just startling. But after 20 minutes, you already start to feel like you've let go of something. I look at my I look at my list and I think to myself, what can I do about these things? Things that I can do something about. Often it won't be the whole list because obviously you have quite a big list after 20 minutes. If you're anything like me, you think quite a lot. I'll look at some things that can change easily and sort them out. I'll look at all the things that I can't change. And I'll say to myself, you have to let go of them if you want to be happier in your brain. You're going to have to let go of some of these things. That started to help me develop a very nice relationship with myself. A lot of what people don't understand is they're not just their conscious mind. There's a lot of things going on in their mind subconsciously. And I believe the place if you want to be happy, that's where you need to do battle really. You need to go down deep into your mind, realise what your real core beliefs are and the things from your childhood and stuff that you haven't let go of. And you have to release the things you can't control and change the things you can. I really believe that. Yeah. True freedom, true freedom. I love this cathartic activity that you do. It's writing down notes and something which you could even develop with that, just a full thing to try. Once you've got your list, obviously, like nobody's perfect. And you know, you're doing that list great. Like you said, you're doing it without judgment. You're just getting everything down no matter what it looks like. But seeing that right now, that is you. So actually having a statement like, so whatever that is, you know, it could be my strength or my beauty or whatever it is for you. And then actually say those, like just pick some of those things out, the good and the bad, the things that make you feel more comfortable and things that make you feel less comfortable. And actually say, you know, in this moment, this is my strength. Because it is your strength because it's part of who you are and you're living with those things. I think, you know, to have real strength or real beauty isn't about getting rid of everything negative and just accepting what's great. It's actually accepting you and loving you as you are. Yeah. You know what? I think, yeah, that would be something I'll do, actually. In reality, I don't think you'll ever be perfect. And I think in order to be happy in the present, I think you have to accept who you are, exactly who you are. You know, full self-acceptance. And that will change. It will change from day to day or, you know, year to year. Yeah. Like you said, you know, that acceptance brings you true freedom. And when you can live a life with true freedom to be who you are, it's beautiful. And it just opens so much in your life. I think in my life, the things that have held me back, it all comes from fear. Oh, of course. It's that fear of not being good enough. Of course. That fear that people aren't going to approve. People might laugh at me or not like me. But when you can release yourself, you do have true freedom. And it is incredible. It is. And I don't know about you, but I spent years believing that you couldn't get that feeling. You know, you have to have approval from other people to be content. But it's definitely doable. And it's not to be traded with. That's a brilliant feeling. I think how you put it is very good, actually. You know, we live in a society where there are ubiquitous comments about expectations around body size, what a man should look like. People make comments all the time. You know, people see you. They'll often make a comment about how you look. That's the society we live in. It's almost like a conversation starter, isn't it? Like, oh, you look well or you've lost weight or well done. And you hear other people making those comments. It's almost like if you want to make someone feel happy, what do you do? You tell them that they look like they've lost weight. How do you cope with that? I think with this one, if I'm honest, I think I've really let go of my body image as such. So I think obviously I want people to think I look attractive. I've got to the stage now where I know that other people's opinions and stuff isn't actually, you know, core happiness for myself. I know that's something deeper. And that is amazing. And I think that is such observation and something to internalize. It took me a long time in my life, a lot longer than you are now, to really realize that if people say good things about me, if people approve of me, if people like me, if people think I look good, that's really kind. But that's not going to affect how I feel about me. And likewise, if somebody doesn't like me and somebody doesn't like what I look like or doesn't like my body shape, it doesn't affect how I feel. For you to have those thoughts now, at your age, is really wise. I really, I really appreciate that. Very nice thing for you to say. Funny as well, because the other thing I'm thinking as well is often, if you think about why people say the things they do, like people that say things negatively, then often it's, you know, because they're very insecure in themselves, it's got nothing to do with you. Absolutely. If you're content with yourself, you'd have no reason to say something negative to someone, you know what I mean? Like they have no control over anyway. What would be the purpose? I think you've got real emotional intelligence there. And I think that when you see the good and have that positive outlook, that's your prism for the world. And it's a much happier place to be. I really, I really appreciate you saying that. It's a very nice thing for you to say. I just see it as the truth, really. I don't even see it as like an attitude as such. I just see it as that is the truth. You know what I mean? Fantastic. Fantastic. If, I know you've talked about your music, but if you sort of cast your mind back through that time of recovery, at any point along that journey, can you think about a resource which you found really helpful? I think it would be very useful to someone recovering with them actually, that would be to go and look at Julian Blank's videos on YouTube. Because he's, I think he's got a lot of wisdom, you know, being content in yourself, which is basically why we're all here anyway. Yeah. So I'd really recommend that actually. I think that would give people a lot of peace. Hopefully that would enable people to see the bigger picture. So we can put that on the show notes page and then people can visit that and see if it's helpful to them. It may be, it may not be. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. And if you could go back in time and speak to your younger self when you were in year eight, when you were struggling, what would you say to Truman? That's a good question, this one is. I would say, whatever you're thinking, whatever you're feeling, like, I think like you said a couple of minutes ago, really, I think be okay with where you are now and know that, you know, what you think will get you happiness, most of the time it doesn't. So you have to make sure you're content where you are now. I think that would solve a lot of issues in terms of, because I think a lot of anorexia and things like that are all to do with, you know, I'll be better once I've done this or once I've lost this weight or whatever. So I think ensuring that you know that the present is where you find happiness, really, not the future. I appreciate that's a little deep. That's really profound and I really agree with that. I really appreciate that. Finding that acceptance in the present, everyone can take something from that. Definitely, because like you say, you're only, that's all you're ever left with. You're only ever in the present. You're never in this future anyway. So if you've got a bad relationship with the present, you'll never be happy in the present moment, you know what I mean, which is all we've got left. And we do it, don't we? Because we think, oh, you know, once I finish my to-do list or once I've tidied this room or, you know, next week after I've done this, and we kind of give ourselves little markers of after that, that's when we can relax and feel happy or achieve this or whatever. And living in the moment is, it's awesome. Like you said, those feelings, you know, I really believe that you can get those feelings right now. You don't have to achieve something or go somewhere. Exactly. If you imagine it and picture it, you can sit down and say, I'm going to feel very happy when I achieve this job or speed running or whatever it is, or go to this, like the day I can afford to travel to wherever. If you actually sit down and close your eyes and picture it, you can conjure those feelings up. You can actually get them in the moment. You don't have to wait for things. Totally agree. I'm very happy that you think like that as well. And the other thing I was just going to add to it as well, as you said that, you sort of brought some awareness to what I often think about in terms of letting go, because I think a lot of people spend a lot of their life, like you said, like wanting this, wanting that, thinking once I get that, I'll be happy. I think in reality, I think the real answer is we're all happy at our core. I think we add things to that, but I think in reality, the way to get there is by letting go of these negative things and stuff and just letting things be as they are. I don't think it's about getting the next thing or whatever. I think it's about letting go of your problems you've already got and realizing you can actually be happy right here, right now. And if you're not, you need to let go of more things really. What would you say to someone who's a healthcare professional, like a counsellor or a doctor, somebody who would like to become a healthcare professional in the future, who would like to work with people to develop their self-acceptance and self-love, etc., either to stop an eating disorder developing or to help somebody who's got an eating disorder? I would say that's an interesting one, because I would say that I like how you've said that, because I thought you were going to ask me just about the anorexia, but I'm glad you went for the deep-rooted. I would say definitely to make sure they understand totally that anorexia is actually a by-product of this internal battle that's going on inside. I would like to hope, it might sound a little cheeky, but I'd like to say to them, make sure they have a good grasp of it themselves. I think once you've got a good grasp of it yourself, I think you'll naturally give the right advice. But once you understand what you do need to be happy and stuff, I think naturally, I think you would just give good advice after that and help to show people a better route, really. That's good advice. And as you're aware, this podcast is aimed at psychology students, so could you leave them with an actionable tip which they could apply to their own self-care and well-being development? After talking to you, actually, I would say it's actually a very good tip, what you've said, in terms of write down everything you think and feel and learn to accept where you are right now. But I think that is actually a very important thing to do. Something quite simple, quite easy, and also it's very, very useful and getting you in the right direction. Well, hopefully you can try that. Maybe people can try it and even let us know how to get on with that. Fantastic. Well, thank you again for your time. No problem. To share your incredible story and especially thank you for being so authentic and candid. No problem. You have provided us with something really, really special and I can't thank you enough for that. Thank you. Thanks very much for letting me on. I've really enjoyed it. Nice to talk to you. Great care has been taken to do what I can to ensure that this is not triggering for anyone and doesn't include any statistics. However, if you are affected or relate to what has been discussed, please do seek professional advice from your GP or a specialist. There are links on the show notes page to signpost you for support. If you are concerned about someone else, please do not keep your thoughts to yourself. People can get very unwell quickly. So contact an adult whom you trust straight away.