Untitled notebook 2

Urban segregation goes beyond just where people live. It also involves who has access to what, who interacts with whom, and how the design of streets and buildings shape these dynamics. Co-presence in public spaces is an important factor in understanding segregation. Co-presence looks at who shares the same streets, squares, and parks, and who people encounter in their daily lives. The design of neighborhoods and the connectivity of amenities can either encourage or hinder co-presence. High co-presence occurs when spaces are well-connected and draw people from various parts of the city, creating a mix of interactions. Limited social catchment areas occur when spaces are tucked away and only attract people from the immediate vicinity, leading to little interaction with others. The design of the city can impact social divisions and experiences. Anne Ledgby's research in Stockholm analyzed pedestrian movement, conducted questionnaires, and overlaid data with the physical layout of squares Right. Welcome back, everybody, for another Deep Dive. Glad to be here. Today, we're looking at something that is close to home for both of us. Literally, close to home. Yeah. So we're going to be looking at urban segregation. But, and I think a lot of people might think this when they hear the term, isn't urban segregation just about where people live? Yeah. A lot of people stop there when they're thinking about segregation. But we're going to be unpacking a little bit more about how it goes way beyond that. It really does. Yeah. So we're going to be talking about who has access to what, who interacts with whom, and how even the design of the streets and the buildings can actually shape all those dynamics. Yeah. The conversation a lot of times stops at those residential patterns. Yeah. But I think to get into the nitty gritty of how people experience the city, how they actually move through it and share its spaces, we need a different lens. Absolutely. And that's where our source material comes in. Yeah. We have some excerpts from a PhD dissertation by Anne Ledgby. Oh, this is fascinating research. She did some really cool work in Stockholm. Yeah. Looking at co-presence in public spaces. Love that term. Yeah. I think it's a really helpful way to think about it. And basically, she's arguing that instead of just looking at who lives where. Right. Like we were just talking about. Right. We should actually be asking, like, who is sharing the same streets, the same squares, the same parks? Exactly. It's actually like crossing paths. Yeah. Who are you running into? On your daily life. In everyday life. Yeah. And that gives us, I think, a whole new understanding of how segregation can actually play out in the city. Totally. It really flips the script on how we think about it. Yeah. So let's say I'm picturing two neighborhoods. Okay. They both have a really similar mix of residents in terms of like, you know, their income, their ethnicity, whatever it is. But one neighborhood is designed in a way that really encourages this co-presence. Okay. And the other one, well, not so much. Right. What would that actually look like on the ground? Oh, that's such a great question. So in the first neighborhood, imagine if you will, the streets are designed to connect different areas seamlessly. Yeah. You have parks and plazas that are strategically placed to draw people in from all the surrounding streets. And what you see is a real mix of people using these spaces, families from the neighborhood, you know, folks just commuting through. Right. Maybe even visitors from other parts of the city that were drawn by, you know, some cool event or a vibrant market or something like that. And that's what we would call high co-presence. Okay. So I'm getting this really bustling European plaza kind of vibe from that description. Exactly. So now let's flip that. Okay. What about the neighborhood where co-presence isn't as baked into the design? So this neighborhood might have pockets of amenities, but they're not very well connected. Okay. You know, maybe the park is tucked away. It's only accessible by like a winding path or a single bus line. Right. And so you might see some clusters of people from the immediate vicinity, but not a lot of interaction with folks from other parts of the city. Right. It's almost like these parallel social universes existing in the same geographic space. Even though they might have a similar population on paper. Exactly. Their design is leading to totally different social experiences. Totally different. That's crazy. Yeah. But how did Ledgby measure co-presence? Oh, this is the fun part. Did she just hang out in squares and take notes? Well, she did spend a lot of time observing pedestrian flows and patterns, but it was much more systematic than that. Okay. She analyzed 18 squares in Stockholm and she used this really cool mix of methods. So she mapped pedestrian movement. She conducted questionnaires to understand where people were coming from and why they were in a particular space. Okay. And then she overlaid all this data with the physical layout of each square. Oh, that's cool. So she's not just looking at are people present, but why are they present? Exactly. It gives a much deeper understanding of what's going on. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And one of the things that she found was that some squares, especially ones that were tucked away in like these really residentially segregated areas. Okay. Had what she called really limited social catchment areas. Okay. That makes sense. And that means that the people who were using those spaces were almost exclusively from that immediate neighborhood. Right. So there wasn't a lot of mixing going on. So they were basically just encountering people from their own little bubble. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. So it's almost like the design is reinforcing the social divisions. In some cases, yes. But she also found that even in well-connected areas. Okay. Certain attractors, and by that she meant things like a large shopping mall or something like that. Right. Could really skew those co-presence dynamics. Okay. Yeah. So even if you have good connectivity, if all the activity is concentrated in one spot. Right. It doesn't necessarily translate to greater social mixing. Right. It's like everybody's going to the same watering hole. Yeah. But not necessarily mingling once they get there. Exactly. And on the flip side, she found that squares that had what she called higher betweenness. Yes. Okay. New term for me. A great one. Break that down for me. Okay. So betweenness, think about a city as like a network of nodes and connections. Okay. Betweenness is essentially a measure of how many paths pass through a particular node. Okay. So a square with high betweenness is kind of like a major intersection. Okay. You have lots of different routes converging there, bringing people from all over the city together. So it's not just about being connected, but being a hub. Yes. Where different paths are intersecting. Exactly. Okay. That makes a lot more sense. Yes. And I'm thinking about my own city. Me too. And the different squares and public spaces and how they function in terms of betweenness. Totally. Yeah. And this is what I think is so cool about this research. I agree. It gives us this new framework for understanding how urban design can either facilitate or hinder social interaction. For sure. And it challenges us to think about segregation beyond just those residential patterns. Absolutely. We're talking about how the design of the city can impact who we encounter, who we share space with. Right. And ultimately how we experience urban life. Exactly. Yeah. And that's where Ledgby's work gets really interesting. She doesn't just diagnose the problem. She actually starts to explore solutions. Oh, cool. She really believes that urban design can be this powerful tool for promoting co-presence and creating more equitable cities. So it's not just about accepting segregation as an inevitable consequence of urban life. Exactly. But about actually designing our way towards a more inclusive and connected city. Love it. I'm really intrigued to hear about those solutions. Well, I'm excited to talk about them. But before we get there, let's dive a little bit deeper into the concept of affordances in urban design. Okay. Affordances, those possibilities that are kind of like baked into a space. Yeah. Like the city is whispering to you, here's what you can do here. But those whispers can sound very different. Totally different. Depending on who you are and where you are. That's a great point. Okay. So affordances, they're like these possibilities that are like baked into a space. Right. Exactly. Like the city is whispering, here's what you can do here. But those whispers can sound very different depending on who you are and where you are. That's right. And that's where things get really interesting because that's where design choices become really critical. Yeah. Like, think about it this way. A wide, well-lit street with benches and trees. Cool. Might afford a sense of safety and encourage people to, you know, linger and interact. Yeah. But then like a narrow alleyway, poorly lit, no visual interest. Right. Might afford feelings of unease. Right. And discourage people from even like spending time there. So even small details can really have a big impact on how people experience- Totally. And use a space. Huge impact. Yeah. And when you multiply those small details across an entire city- Yeah. You really start to see how affordances can either reinforce or challenge- Yeah. The existing social patterns. It's true. And Ledgby uses this really striking example in her dissertation. She compares two neighborhoods in Stockholm, Hobjo and Jeneda. Okay. Both designed with really similar social goals in mind, but with different spatial configurations. Okay. I'm all ears. Yeah. What were the key differences there and how did that play out in terms of co-presence? So Hobjo was designed with like a more traditional layout. You have distinct residential blocks- Okay. Separated by these large green spaces. Yes. But Jeneda had a much more integrated design. Okay. Housing was interspersed with smaller pocket parks- Okay. And pedestrian pathways that kind of meandered through the neighborhood. Okay. So essentially Jeneda encouraged more movement and interaction- Right. Between different parts of the neighborhood. So almost like Jeneda's like a woven tapestry- I love it. And Hobjo's like a patchwork quilt. Perfect. Yes. And what Ledgby found was that this difference in spatial configuration had a direct impact on co-presence. Oh, wow. So in Jeneda, those smaller interconnected spaces- Yeah. Became these natural meeting points- Right. Drawing people from different parts of the neighborhood into shared experiences. Right. But in Hobjo, those larger green spaces- Me too. While they were beautiful- Yeah. Often felt underutilized. Interesting. And they didn't foster the same level of interaction. It's almost counterintuitive because you think, oh, bigger park, more people are going to mix and mingle. Right. You would think so. But what this shows is that it's not just about the size of the space. Exactly. It's about how it's integrated into the fabric of the neighborhood- Yes. And how it encourages that movement and interaction. That's exactly right. And that's where the concept of affordances becomes so powerful. Yeah. Because if you want to promote co-presence, you need to design spaces that afford opportunities- Yeah. For people from different backgrounds to encounter each other in meaningful ways. Yeah. Those chance encounters- Yeah. Spark conversations and build relationships- Totally. And ultimately just create a richer social fabric. Love that, a richer social fabric, yeah. So what are some specific design strategies- Yeah. That cities can use to create these affordances for co-presence? We can't just go around and reshape entire neighborhoods overnight. No, no, of course not. But there are a lot of smaller scale interventions that can have a big impact. Okay. For example, think about the placement of amenities within a public space. Okay. So instead of clustering all the benches in one corner- Yeah. Scatter them throughout the space to encourage interaction. All right. Design pathways that meander through the space so people are more likely to cross paths. Okay. Even something as simple as adding a water feature or a public art installation can create a focal point and encourage people to linger and engage. So it's about thinking strategically about how to create a sense of invitation and possibility- Absolutely. Within a space. Don't underestimate the power of programming either. All right. Having regular events and activities can transform a space from being just a passive backdrop into a vibrant hub of social interaction. Right. Think farmer's markets, outdoor concerts, community workshops- Yeah. Even a regular chess club meeting. Yeah. These kinds of things draw people in- Yeah. From different parts of the community and create opportunities for connection. Okay. So we're talking about strategic placement of amenities- Yes. Thoughtful pathway design and engaging programming. Yes. But how do we ensure that these design interventions are actually catering to the needs and desires of the community? That's the million dollar question, right? And that's why community engagement is so important- Yeah. Throughout the design process. Right. So it's not about architects and urban planners coming in with a preconceived vision. Right. It's about actually working with the residents- Yes. Understanding how they use public spaces- Exactly. What their priorities are- Yeah. And how design can best support their aspirations for their community. It's about co-creating a vision for the space rather than dictating it- Yeah. From above. And when you involve the community in that process- Right. You're not only creating a space that's more responsive and relevant- Yes. But you're also fostering that sense of ownership and pride. Absolutely. It's so essential for long-term success. 100% agree. When people feel invested in a space- Yeah. They're more likely to use it, care for it, and feel a sense of belonging. Absolutely. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And it's important to remember that promoting co-presence isn't about forcing people to interact- Right. Or erasing cultural differences. Yeah. It's about creating this welcoming and inclusive environment where people from diverse backgrounds can choose to engage with each other if they wish. It's about those spontaneous moments- Yes. Of connection that make a city feel vibrant and alive. I love that. That's beautifully said. And I think one of the things I love about Legbi's research is it challenges us to move beyond just mitigating segregation- Right. But actually promoting social inclusion. Yeah. Yes. It's not enough to just avoid creating spaces that exacerbate division. Yeah. We need to be intentional about designing spaces that encourage connection, foster understanding, and build bridges across difference. So it's not just about leveling the playing field- Yeah. But creating a playing field where everyone feels welcome- I love that. And empowered to participate. That's it. That's the key. And this is where things get really exciting because when we start to think about urban design as a tool for social change- Yes. The possibilities are endless. Endless. You know, we can design streets that prioritize pedestrians and cyclists- Right. Creating a more human scale. Yeah. An inviting public realm. Totally. We can design parks that cater to a diverse range of activities and interests. Right. So that people from all ages and backgrounds can feel that sense of belonging. And we can even design buildings that encourage interaction and community building. Yeah. Blurring the lines between private and public space. I'm starting to see a city in a whole new light. I love that. It's not just buildings and infrastructure- Yeah. But this like living, breathing organism that we can shape- Yes. To create a more just and equitable society. That's the spirit. And remember, we don't have to wait for like these grand citywide initiatives- Yeah. To start making a difference. Right. We can start by just paying attention to the spaces around us or streets or parks or neighborhoods- Yeah. And just asking ourselves, how can we make these spaces more welcoming, more inclusive, more conducive to co-presence? So taking these principles- Yeah. And applying them at every scale. Exactly. From the smallest pocket park to the grandest public square. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And even small interventions can have this ripple effect- Right. Inspiring others and contributing to a larger movement for positive change. I love that. I'm already thinking about some spaces in my neighborhood that could use a little co-presence boost. That's awesome. I love to hear that. And remember, you don't have to be an architect- Right. Or an urban planner to make a difference. Talk to your neighbors, connect with local organizations, advocate for change at the city level. Yeah. We can all be a part of this. It's about reclaiming our cities as spaces of possibility- Yeah. Connection- Yeah. And shared humanity. Couldn't agree more. Speaking of inspiring examples- Okay. Let's shift gears and explore some real world case studies- Yeah. Of cities that are using urban design to combat segregation and promote social inclusion. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm thinking of places like Medellin, Colombia- Oh, cool. And Vienna, Austria. Okay. Two cities that have taken very different approaches, but with equally impressive results. Yeah. And I'd love to hear about how those design solutions are playing out on the ground. I'm happy to share. And what lessons we can learn. Do it. Okay. So real world examples. Yeah. Let's jump into those. Okay. First up, Medellin, Colombia. All right. I've heard so much about their approach to urban design. Oh, yeah. They've been doing some really innovative stuff. Yeah. So what's the story there? Well, Medellin, they faced some significant challenges- Yeah. With poverty and inequality, especially in those hillside slums- Right. That were physically and socially isolated- Yeah. From the city center. Yeah. But what they've done with infrastructure projects, like the cable car system, is remarkable. Yeah. The cable cars- So cool. They're iconic. Yeah. But how have they gone beyond just a cool way to get around? Well, I think by connecting those hillside communities to the heart of Medellin- Yeah. They've given residents access, not only to jobs and services, but to a whole different social landscape. Imagine being able to easily travel down to the city center- Yeah. For work, for school, for cultural events. Great. Things that were previously out of reach. It's like they've woven those communities back into the fabric of the city. A hundred percent. It's really about inclusion. Yeah. What a powerful statement. And it goes beyond the cable cars. Okay. They've also invested heavily in public spaces, libraries, and cultural centers within those formerly isolated neighborhoods. So they're creating spaces where people can gather. Yeah. Connect, celebrate their culture. Yeah. It's about fostering that sense of belonging and pride- Right. Showing those communities that they are valued in integral parts of the city. So it's this holistic approach. It is. Not just physical connectivity, but social and cultural investment. Yeah. That's amazing, especially given the history of Medellin. Absolutely. When you mentioned Vienna, that's another example. Very different path. Totally different approach, yeah. Yeah. Vienna's approach is all about proactive planning- Okay. And this deep commitment to social housing. Okay. So they've been intentionally designing these mixed income neighborhoods- Yeah. With a strong emphasis on high quality public spaces and amenities. Okay. It's about preventing segregation from taking root in the first place. So instead of reacting to existing problems- Right. They're really shaping the future of the city. Yeah, shaping the future. In a way that promotes social equity from the ground up. From day one. So how are they actually doing that? Well, one of the things that they do is they have a really interesting approach to social housing. Okay. So they have this policy of integrating different housing types- Okay. Within the same development. Okay. So you have social housing units- Right. Interspersed with market rate units. So they're preventing the concentration of poverty. Exactly. Creating this more diverse- Yeah, diverse and balanced social mix within neighborhoods. Oh, that's so smart. Right. It really helps to break down those economic barriers- Yeah. And prevent the formation of those isolated enclaves. Yeah. And what about the public spaces in these neighborhoods? Oh, they're fantastic. What makes them so special? Well, Vienna really places a huge emphasis on creating these vibrant and inclusive public spaces- Okay. That cater to a wide range of needs and interests. Yeah. So things like beautifully designed parks with playgrounds for kids, community gardens where residents can grow their own food- Yeah. Bustling plazas with cafes and markets. Okay. Public swimming pools and sports facilities. So it's like they're creating this microcosm of the city- Yeah, exactly. Within each neighborhood. A little bit of everything. Yeah. Ensuring that everyone has access to these essential elements- Yeah. Of urban life. Totally. And it sounds like getting around without a car is really easy. Oh, super easy. Okay. Vienna has an excellent public transportation system- Yeah. Extensive bike lanes- Okay. Pedestrian-friendly streets. So they're really hitting all the key points. They're doing a great job. Mixed income housing, vibrant public spaces- Yeah. Sustainable transportation options. It's no wonder that Vienna always ranks so highly. Right at the top. Yeah. There's livability rankings. Sure. That's incredible. It's really a testament to the power of thoughtful urban planning- Yeah. And a commitment to social equity. And these are just two examples. Oh, yeah. Just scratching the surface. Cities around the world are experimenting with all sorts of cool design strategies- Right. To address segregation and create these more inclusive public spaces. It's so encouraging to see that shift happening. It is. It gives me hope for the future of cities. Yeah, me too. It really does. It makes me feel like we can build cities that are truly places of connection. Yeah, of opportunity for everyone. Yeah. Absolutely. So what can our listeners do in their own communities- That's a great question. To promote this co-presence- Yeah. And create more inclusive spaces? You know, I think the first step is just to start paying attention. Okay. Look around your neighborhood, your city. Are there public spaces that feel unwelcoming or inaccessible to certain groups? Are there opportunities to improve connectivity- Yeah. Add amenities or create more engaging programming? So it's about taking these principles that we've been talking about- Right. And applying them to our own surroundings. Exactly. Looking for those small but meaningful interventions that can make a real difference. It's about those little things adding up. That's right. Yeah. Talk to your neighbors. Connect with local organizations. Advocate for change at the city level. We can all be a part of the solution. Absolutely. And it's important to remember that design is never neutral. That's a good point. It either reinforces the existing power structures- Yeah. Or it challenges them. That's right. So it's about making those conscious choices. Yeah. About using design as a force for good. Love it. As a way to create a more just and equitable world. One step at a time. One street. One park. One building at a time. Beautifully said. I love that. Well, it's been an eye-opening conversation. It has. And a huge thank you to Ann Ledgby for her research. Yes. Thank you, Ann. Which has given us so much to think about. For sure. I feel like I'm seeing my own city with new eyes. Me too. Noticing all those subtle design cues that really shape our social experiences. They're all around us. Yeah. In ways we don't even realize. Yeah. It's amazing how much power those small design choices have. It really is. And by understanding those dynamics and being intentional. Yes. We can create cities that are not only beautiful. Yeah. But deeply human. So important. Places where everyone feels that sense of belonging and opportunity. I'm walking away feeling inspired and empowered. Me too. We all have a role to play in shaping our cities. We do. And creating spaces that reflect our values and our aspirations for a more just and equitable world. Couldn't agree more. It's been a great conversation. It has. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. And thanks to all of you for listening to another Deep Dive. Until next time.