#1 Introduction

Dr. Robert J. Rowan, a pioneer in alternative medicine and medical freedom, shares his personal journey and experiences in the medical field. He discusses his disappointment with traditional medicine's focus on pharmaceuticals and his commitment to finding alternative options for healing. He explains chelation therapy, which removes toxic metals from the body, and ozone therapy, which enhances oxygen delivery and modulates the immune system. Dr. Rowan is known as the father of medical freedom and has been involved in advocating for alternative medicine. Read some real history, know where we came from, know what has been taken from us, and look at what is happening so that you can see that if you don't stop it, you'll know where you are being taken. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the inaugural episode of Rowan Reports. My name is Lucas Dean, your host and guide on this exciting journey towards an unshackled and pain-free lifestyle. Our captain steering the ship, however, is none other than the renowned Dr. Robert J. Rowan, father of medical freedom, a pioneer in the world of alternative medicine, and a passionate advocate for holistic wellness. In each episode, Dr. Rowan will uncover obscure truths, provide unique insights, and propose holistic solutions to enhance your overall health and well-being. We have a stimulating lineup of episodes in store for you, including some truly eye-opening conversations with distinguished guests from all walks of life. Today, we'll start where all great stories begin, at the origin. Dr. Rowan will share his personal background and experiences, providing you a glimpse into the journey that led him to become a fervent defender of alternative medicine and medical freedom. I encourage you all to listen with an open mind as we venture into this exploration of health and freedom. The pursuit of knowledge requires openness to diverse viewpoints, so join us as we dive into this intriguing world together. 3, 2, 1, we're live. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in. To our listeners on Spotify and associated platforms, and our viewers on YouTube, I'm here with Dr. Robert J. Rowan. Dr. Rowan, thank you for coming on the show and imparting us with some wisdom. I'll let you take it away here. Just give us a little bit of an introduction about yourself. Okay, thank you. Well, I have what most people would consider good medical credentials. I attended medical school at the University of California, San Francisco from 1971 to 75. I went to medical school wanting to learn to heal people, and I was really disappointed. I have to tell you, UCSF is considered a premier medical school, but by my third year, I got depressed, and I'm not a really depressed person. I got depressed because I just felt I was being trained to be a pimp for pharmaceuticals, and I almost quit. I came real close, but I decided since I had three years in, I'd stick it out. I'm glad I did. I promised myself I would do everything I can not to use pharmachemicals. I was an environmentalist, I still am, and I saw that what we were doing to patients is exactly what we're doing to the planet. We're poisoning the planet with chemicals. We are poisoning our patients with pharmaceuticals, which are chemicals, and they become dependent upon them. It doesn't heal them. It doesn't encourage their body to heal. It makes them dependent upon the chemicals, mainly to suppress symptoms. I've devoted my life to finding options around that. Could you give us a little bit of background about where you're from, what prompted you to get into medicine? Most of my life, I wanted to be a dentist. I went to college at Johns Hopkins University, where most of the students were pre-med, and I had decided after spending a month in a science camp in the mountains of West Virginia, and I discovered nature, that I wanted to go out and work in the woods and trade my services for chickens or vegetables or whatever. Well, part of that happened. I became a physician. I didn't go out to the mountains. I did go to Alaska for 22 years, and I became a vegetarian, so I couldn't trade for chickens. But I did become a physician, and due to what I just told you earlier, I entered into alternative medicine. I started that in 1982, while I was working for the Indian Health Service in Anchorage, Alaska. I spent a total of five years in the Indian Health Service. One year in the desert southwest, I became a family physician, did a residency, and then went to Alaska. I worked in the Indian Health Service for four years. When my ideas of medicine were not well accepted by the doctors at the hospital, though very accepted by the patients, I decided it was time to leave, and I went out on my own, starting with acupuncture. Then I went into nutritional medicine, chelation therapy. In 1986, I started ozone therapy, which I've been doing longer than anyone that I know in North America. Then one thing led to another. I love acupuncture, but I let that go because there's plenty of other acupuncturists out there. I've stuck with oxidation therapy, of which ozone is a part. Nutrition and detoxification, the three pillars to me of health or getting healthy, remaining healthy are getting the right nutrition, eliminating toxins or detoxifying, and stress reduction. Everything else is secondary to that. Even your genetics. Your genetics are important, especially if you have a major genetic condition, but most genetic conditions can be modified by detoxification and proper diet. Can you provide a brief, high-level overview? I'm sure we'll get into this later on in a little bit more detail, but can you let us know, for those who may not be aware, what chelation therapy is, what ozone therapy is, what oxidation therapy is? Yes. Well, the first discipline I got into that was alternative was acupuncture, as I mentioned. I learned some acupuncture when I was in my medical residency. I had a trainer, and while I was in the Indian Health Service, I went to a very intense training in New York. Actually, I loved it. By 1986, I learned about chelation. Chelation therapy involves the use of a molecule called EDTA, which acts as a claw, and let's say that this is a toxic atom of lead, EDTA grabs it, and it hauls it out of the body, and it detoxifies you. All of us, I assure you, are toxic with heavy metals. Every one of us. The amount of lead in our bones is at least 400 times what it was in the pre-Columbian, Peruvian ancestors. Everyone could use some form of chelation to help detoxify metals, and I continue to do it to this day. There are several forms of chelation. One is oral, not the best. One is rectal, significantly better, that's with suppositories, and the gold standard is intravenous. I've done a series of intravenous chelations with EDTA to pull that out. My lead, fortunately, has fallen quite low and has remained low. That's chelation therapy. The other therapy that we just mentioned is oxidation therapy, and there's several components to oxidation therapy, of which ozone therapy is probably the largest, and it's really growing rapidly around the world. We live in an oxygen-rich environment, and oxygen takes electrons. That's what it does. When you have a fire, oxygen is stealing electrons from hydrogen and carbon, and that releases energy. In our body, there is combustion in our mitochondria, literal combustion, and that's what keeps our body warm, but it's a controlled combustion. It's not an actual flame, but it is combustion. I call mitochondria our furnaces, and oxidation is going on there, but oxidation therapy is a little bit different. It involves the administration of molecules that are oxidants. Oxygen is an oxidant. It grabs electrons. Ozone is many, many fold more powerful an oxidant than is oxygen. Ozone is O3. Oxygen is O2. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite, NaClO. That is also an oxidant, and why you see your whites turn white if you use bleach. Why if you use hydrogen peroxide, which is an oxidant, your hair turns blonde or white because your hair gets bleached with hydrogen peroxide. Well, these compounds can also be used medically to induce a whole series of really beneficial responses in the body, and I mean, to me, it's an ultimate treatment. Ozone therapy, which is my favorite, does several things. One, it helps your red blood cells dump more oxygen in tissues, and we are oxygen creatures. It's a long path from the oxygen out here that I'm breathing to get it into your lungs, and then it has to cross a couple membranes to get through your lungs into your red blood cells, and then your circulation has to carry those red blood cells, and then hopefully the red blood cells unload the precious oxygen cargo in your tissues, and then the oxygen has to go through more membranes to get to the mitochondria where energy is made. Ozone assists that process at multiple levels. Ozone improves red cell flexibility, meaning red cells which are larger than capillaries can ... Here's your capillary. The red cell is larger, but the red cell can fold like this and then slip through. That's called rheology, flexibility. Ozone assists that process so that your blood cells can get through the capillaries, release oxygen. Ozone increases something called 2,3-DGP, which also causes hemoglobin to release more oxygen under higher pressure so that the oxygen can move into your cells. Ozone modulates the immune system. That's been shown in multiple basic science articles, which means if your immune system is like this, ozone therapy will bring it, modulate it, or if it's like this, it'll bring it back into balance. Then ozone is directly lethal to invaders. Ozone creates a whole series of daughter molecules called ozonides, which act as messenger molecules to your immune cells. These get your immune cells to do, ideally, what nature, what the creator designed our immune system to do, and that's to rid our body of invaders. We alluded to this earlier. You are considered by many as the father of medical freedom. Can you elaborate on how that came to be? What exactly were you involved of to get to this point? The year was 1990. Actually, I got started in 89, but we did it in one year, 1990. I had a patient who was a state senator, and I asked him about getting a bill passed because I saw a lot of my friends and colleagues getting disciplined in other states for not hurting anybody, simply for doing alternative medicine like chelation therapy. Chelation therapy was considered quackery at that time, but we know today due to the work of a very famous cardiologist that was published in the last 10 years that chelation is real, and it helps circulation. Doctors were losing their licenses for practicing medicine that was 20 years in advance. I said to him, we could probably get a bill passed in Alaska because we have a small population, and it might be easier to do it here than elsewhere where there are larger populations. He agreed. In 1990, I went to my House of Representatives representatives, and I asked them if they would introduce a bill protecting unconventional medicine, and they agreed. They put it in and attached it to a bill that most people wanted, including the governor. The medical, I call it the medical mob, organized medicine, decided they didn't want this. They had it stripped from the bill in a committee that had nothing to do with health. They had it stripped from the bill, I believe, in the finance committee, and again, it had nothing to do with health. The legislators who did this were well-financed and or married to people interested in seeing that scuttled. I didn't have much of a chance here. There was one chance to get that provision acted upon on the floor of the House of Representatives where it would bypass that committee, and it would be put in on the floor of the House. I had a radio show, and I was very popular in Alaska with the radio show because it was call-in, we gave information, and there was another radio show that appealed to the more conservative side of Alaska, which was quite a conservative state. I went on the radio several days in a row. We galvanized more public opinion messages to get to the legislature than any issue since the Vietnam War, I was told. Then there was still one representative holdout who said, well, you could injure people. How do we know you're not going to injure people? I said, well, what we do doesn't injure people. What the conventional medicine does, does injure people, but I said, I'll agree to be held to a higher standard. You can add the words, in the absence of demonstrable physical harm to a patient, which meant if what I did could be proven to have physically harmed a patient, then I could be held to a higher standard than the other guys. They're giving drugs all the time that injure people, every day. In fact, we know that medicine is the third leading cause of death in this country. They can do it and walk away with it because it's conventional medicine. I mean, look, Merck killed over 100,000 people with Vioxx, and they knew it was killing people and did nothing, and they got slapped with a fine. That's all, poor people dying. I agreed to be held to a higher standard. My bill passed over vociferous objections, and my patient, who was the senator, got it through the Senate, and it was signed into law in 1990. I was appointed to the state medical board by the next governor, Wally Hickel, and I served on the medical board, again, over very vociferous objections of organized medicine, and again, the people of the state rose up to their representatives to have my appointment confirmed in the legislature, and it squeaked through, but I made it, and that's my political history. Staying on the topic of politics here, there was a senator, Richard Pan, who kind of forced through Senate Bill 277 back in 2014. Can you talk a little bit about what exactly was included in that bill and how it affects us? There was a measles outbreak in Disneyland, possibly by somebody who brought it into the country, and there were a few cases. Now, measles is generally a benign disease. I had measles. I am lifelong immune to measles. It was a wild disease in my generation. Measles does kill a few people. It's not common, rare, but it's enough that it caused a lot of fear, and California at that time provided for a religious exemption to school vaccines, and Pan is a pediatrician and also what I consider a statist, government knows best, for you, and I'm from the government. I'm here to help you, quote-unquote. Terrifying words. Yes. So he authored a bill removing that exemption, all political exemptions, all personal belief exemptions, and that if you wanted to put your children in school after you pay school taxes, you would have to have your child vaccinated to all of the vaccines in the school schedule. He had no choice, and he did provide, oh, this is great, for a medical exemption. I'll get to that in a moment. I went to protest that, and there were like 800 people, maybe more, crowding the Capitol Building. You couldn't even walk. They just wanted to come in and testify. Their testimony was, my name is John Doe, and I'm against this bill. Pan had to listen to all of these people, and he just shook his head, thank you, thank you. All of these people. How many came for his bill? A fraction of that, and most of them were in the medical industry. So our people didn't count, his people did, he didn't care about the will of the people in this, and he railroaded this through, and it passed. There was a position in the bill for a medical exemption. At the time, he thought that we should be given discretion to look at a child and say, you know, you have some risk. You had a reaction to a previous vaccine, or your brother is autistic, or something, or maybe you have other risk factors. So a lot of doctors started providing medical exemptions, which he guaranteed would be untouched. This caused consternation among those from the government, and we know what's good for you, and they decided to do something about it. I knew the writing was on the wall, so I stopped giving medical exemptions, even though I knew that the kids coming to me really needed it. A friend of mine, who actually worked in our office, continued to give medical exemptions based on a child's genetics. He did genetic testing to see if they were at higher risk, which is, I think, quite commendable. But Penn then authored a bill removing the medical exemption and handing over exemptions to some type of board. I don't know exactly, but it could be hundreds of miles away from where that child and his physician were. And then an application could be submitted to that board for an exemption, bypassing the doctor, bypassing any local analysis, and these would generally be denied, because the one place where you could get an exemption is if the child had anaphylaxis to the vaccine. So if the child had anaphylaxis, then you could get a waiver, but if the child had some other injury, no. If the child's brother had autism from a vaccine, no. Anaphylaxis was it. So my friend lost his license. He fought it, lost his license, and the medical exemption in the state of California was destroyed by the man who promised that we could have medical exemptions. This is politics in real time. In that bill, there was some sort of inclusion regarding medical misinformation, right? He authored another bill a year or two ago with COVID, and this bill was to empower the medical board to take your license if you give, quote, medical misinformation, end quote, regarding COVID. Now I could be, and I'm not saying this out of ego, I believe I was a couple years ahead of the times with COVID. You've heard of America's frontline doctors, you've heard of Peter McCullough and other people, and I thought like they thought and like they still do think, and that there were real problems with this vaccine. I let people know this, well, Pan thought again, government knows best, and if you don't toe the party line, meaning what some nondescript entity says is truth about COVID, you don't even know who it is saying or what they're saying. It's just called misinformation. And so somebody could come, or the board then, with his law, which passed over vociferous objections from the public, it passed, so that I could give you information that violates what CDC is saying, but who is CDC, who are they representing, who is in there getting this information? And it could be misinformation itself, because there could be research that's been published showing that we're absolutely right, but they haven't accepted it. So this was political theses to the core. To me, this was one of the most heinous pieces of legislation I've seen come out of government, because this was all politics. And to me, it was evidence of a greater evil that is perpetrating the medical industry. And I don't like to call it the health industry. I like to call it, and I don't even like to call it the medical industry. I prefer to call it the disease maintenance industry, because that's all we're doing. I've offered it at meetings for the public and professionals alike. I would go into my wallet, and I would pull out one of these $100 bill, and I'd say, I will give this to the first person who can name me a single synthetic petrochemical pharmaceutical that cures a disease. With the exception of antibiotics, leave antibiotics out. And actually, they don't really cure a disease either. If you don't have an immune system, the antibiotics aren't going to work. But leave out antibiotics. No one's been able to answer that. One person came up and said, oh, you can give a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug to a child who has what's called a patent ductus arteriosus. It's an artery that doesn't close after the child is born. That's true. I don't really call that a disease. It's a developmental anomaly. So he claimed it, and I decided, all right, I'll give this to your charity. But he didn't come up with any drug that cures a disease. There just aren't any. So that's why I call this the disease maintenance industry. It's not a health industry, and there's no such thing as health-based medicine. I mean, think about it. Suppose that you could take a pill that actually cures high blood pressure. How many bazillions of dollars would pharma lose in people not needing to take daily drugs for blood pressure? Pharma has you bamboozled to take cholesterol-lowering drugs for the rest of your life, and those drugs are poisonous. They're poisoning an enzyme that your body needs to make cholesterol, which is an integral part of the cell structure of your body. So you could take this drug, and believe it or not, the statin drugs, it can damage your mitochondria, or worse, if it poisons your brain's ability to make cholesterol, maybe it can induce some dementia, because the brain is heavily dependent upon cholesterol to build its cell membranes. So all of these drugs are designed for long-term use. One reason why we're not seeing development of antibiotics is that's the one good place pharma has ... I have to give them credit. Antibiotics have been used to cure disease, infection, but they're short-term use. They're not permanent use. Pharma's more interested in giving you a drug that you're going to have to take the rest of your life, and you're going to be bleeding out of your wallet until you die. Antibiotics are failing because they're not paying attention to what germs really do. If you put some germs into a culture, and you add a small amount of antibiotics to it, the germs rapidly mutate, and they become resistant to it. You can see this. There's an actual study done, a movie of the germs moving from one culture plate to another, like there's connections between two culture plates. So one has a low level of antibiotics, the germs thrive. This one has a higher level of antibiotic, and after this one becomes resistant, they can move into the next one and survive the higher level, and ultimately, until they become totally resistant. So antibiotics are driving the resistance of bacteria to the drugs, and no one is paying attention to what God gave us to fight bacteria, and when I say no one, I'm referring to pharma. That's what we do. The guys like me who deal with ozone therapy or ultraviolet blood irradiation therapy, that's another oxidation therapy. Hydrocentromenous vitamin C therapy is also an oxidation therapy. There's several of these spinoffs of oxidation therapy that have similar properties and can stimulate infections to heal without antibiotics. In fact, ultraviolet blood irradiation therapy was a mainstay in this country in the 1940s. There's articles in the American literature on cures of really devastating bacterial infections in the 1940s, and people can get them off of PubMed today. I've written some review articles on this, and people can go to my website and see them. So three generations ago, they were curing lethal bacterial infections, not with antibiotics, but with oxidation therapy in this country. Then when antibiotics came along, it was easier to give a pill, and these therapies got tossed by the wayside. So you mentioned the medical mob earlier. I don't think it's unarguable that a large swath of everything that goes on in our lives is controlled by some sort of leadership group, mob-like organization. You wrote a book that kind of alludes to this in terms of currency, titled They Own It All, Including You, by Means of Toxic Currency. Can you explain what you write about in that book, your motivation for writing that book? Yeah. My motivation for writing the book came from my co-author. His name is Ronald McDonald. That's his real name. I was trying to understand how a government that was granted limited powers became so malignant. The powers just metastasized and grew exponentially, especially with President Roosevelt and subsequently, and the government continues to grow and metastasize. He said to me, it's the currency. I said, explain. Well, I held this bill out to you earlier, and now I'm just going to hold a $1 bill out to you. What does it say at the top? Federal Reserve Note. Federal Reserve Note. Right. So, this just came out of my wallet. Whose property is this? Property of the Federal Reserve, I'd say. Exactly right. It's their property. And through a long story, it's their product. They actually refer to this as their product. Contrast that to this. Looks like a gold coin to me, for those listening and not viewing. Yes, it is. And those people have never seen one, and I'm going to let you see what's on the back of it. You can see an eagle on the back of it, and the word 5D at the bottom for $5. This is an authentic $5 gold piece, and this is real money. The piece of paper that says $5 is not money. It's a debt note. And this is what I came to discover, and they're not dollars. This is, under law, current law today, $5. The piece of paper is not. It's a picture of $5. What would you rather have? Would you rather have an apple to eat, or a picture of an apple? I'd rather have the apple. I think most would agree, substance there is going to be preferred. Right. We're dealing with form, not substance. And the government sees fit to punish us if we don't have substance and form, for example, on our information that we supply to the government. But they can give us form, but not substance. Well, we just started connecting dots. That piece of paper, the Federal Reserve note, is loaned to the government. And you can see this in Title 12, Section 411, where these notes are not issued by the federal government. They're issued by the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned. Most people don't know that either. It's a privately owned establishment owned by multinational banks. They own it. So the Federal Reserve Act was, and I would recommend people read G. Edgar Griffin's book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, which explains how this came about, and another book called The Web of Debt. These should be in all American high schools, but they're not because we now have a Department of Education that's trying to rewrite American history. Well, these books detail how this came about and why. And if you have control of the currency, you have control of the whole country. In fact, the cover of our book says, I care not who sits on the throne of the British Empire. The man who controls the currency controls the empire, and I control the currency. And that was Baron Nathan Rothschild, the notorious international bankster. So we see the currency as poisoned. It's a debt note. And that debt note is loaned to the federal government so they have a piece of the action. It's their property on loan to them. And the Constitution says that the federal government can make all rules and regulations respecting its property. Well, they had no jurisdiction within the territorial limits of states. And that's assured in the 19th Amendment. In other words, let's say this is a state. The federal government's jurisdiction was right out here at the border between this state and the next state to control commerce between the states. It had no jurisdiction inside the state. They got it through this, because it's their property. In other words, if you transact in more than 10,000 of these, it has to be reported to the government because it's their property. However, I believe, and you can check the law, that it's currency that's regulated like that. You can't leave the country with $10,000 of currency, for example. That's currency, because it belongs to them. I haven't seen it apply to real money. Maybe it does, but I haven't seen it, so I could stand corrected. So the government is involved in every transaction we make because we are using their property or the property they control. You can actually see that on a congressional website, which says the government's basically a third party in every contract that's made because we're using their property. The other thing about this is, and our book explains this, our birthright was English common law. And English common law arises out of the Ten Commandments. Don't lie, cheat, steal, pay your debts, etc. And in English common law, if I was to buy a cow from you, I would give you this that's gold and you would receive my gold coin. And if you don't give me the cow, the debt is paid and extinguished on the spot. The debt's extinguished. There's no recourse, unless someone committed fraud. There's always recourse for fraud. If you lied about your cow and it was diseased, I'd have recourse. If I gave you a fake coin, you'd have recourse. You understand what I'm saying. But in an honorable transaction, debt's paid and extinguished. Well, today we don't have such a thing. We have something called a discharge of debt. This is an IOU. This signifies a debt, the Federal Reserve note prints this out of thin air, loans it to the federal government at interest, or puts it out at interest, and it has to come back at the end of the year at interest. So let's say they print a million of these at 5% interest. At the end of the year, a million, 50,000 has to come back. Where does that 50,000 come from? More printing, more debt. This is the most corrupt and evil thing that's ever been perpetrated on the world. And I heard recently that the COVID scandemic is the greatest evil that's ever been perpetrated on the world. I have to agree medically. I think this is even a greater evil because this has compelled all of us into what we in our book call serfdom. We are serfs on the plantation of the government, which is the plantation of the banksters. So when I give you this for your cow, I gave you an IOU. I didn't pay for your cow. If I give you that Federal Reserve note, I have discharged the debt. The debt still exists, but it's taken another form or character. This is mercantile law. It's vulgar law. It's admiralty law, mercantile law. The colonies objected to mercantile law. When I was in high school, we learned about mercantilism. That was part of our history class. I don't think they're taught that kind of stuff anymore. But the colonies were being used and farmed by the king. Today we're being farmed by the bankers and pharma and international corporations. Literally we're being farmed for profit, and a large part of that is being farmed right through the circulation, which is poisoned. Our circulation, our currency is toxic. It's poisoned because it represents debt. No one is actually getting paid. When I was younger, I can remember pieces of paper like what I'm showing you that said payable in lawful money to the bearer on demand. Now that did represent real money. It meant that I, as the bearer, could take this to the bank and get gold or silver coin for that note. So the note actually did represent something. Those words were stricken from these notes, and the notes simply say, this note that I'm holding up says $1. But it's not a dollar. It can't be, because in American law, a dollar is still defined as a specific weight of gold or silver according to the Coinage Act of 1792. This is a fraud, what I'm holding up, this Federal Reserve note. That's the premise of the book, and that was the undoing of the nation because then they could just print these out of thin air, and I think the average man on the street can see what the alleged government is doing with this power. And it's a power to destroy, and our nation is being destroyed from within. And the founders knew that something like this could happen and tried their best to stop it. They didn't expect this to get destroyed from without. We had survived the Revolutionary War. We're getting destroyed from within, quickly. You do, and I think this is important to note, you make mention of this in your book as well, but I found it very interesting that the Federal Reserve Bank isn't a U.S. entity. It's not a U.S. business. It's completely foreign-owned, not required to register anything within the country. Isn't that interesting? They picked a great name, Federal Reserve. Well, it's not federal. The Lewis case in the Ninth Circuit, and I believe that's in the book where the Ninth Circuit says Federal Reserve Banks are not agencies of the United States government. They're not associated with the United States government, even though the president picks the chairman. And this was an ingenious design by the bankers who organized on Jekyll Island around 1911, and they traveled incognito because they didn't want the press, which was an honorable press at the time, to know what was going on. And they disguised themselves and they congregated on Jekyll Island and conspired this and got it passed through Congress under a corrupt president, Woodrow Wilson, who admitted, I understand he admitted later on when he was dying that he brought down the country by signing the Federal Reserve Act. And it was passed during the Christmas recess when a lot of Congress people were out of Congress. They would have never gotten it through. So the bank is a privately owned institution by private, powerful international banking corporations. They are what is in control of the currency of the United States, which in my opinion is a violation of the Constitution. And I could prove it. And if I was given a fair forum, I bet this, my gold coin, or anything else that I have that I could prove that this is a violation of the Constitution. Anything else of substance and value, I'd assume. I'll even give odds that if I had a fair forum, I'd give 10 to 1 odds that I could prove it. It sounds pretty confident. And I... Well, tell me, tell me this. Tell me this. The Constitution gives Congress the power to coin money, money, money at that time was gold and silver, and regulate the value thereof. The Constitution also says that no state shall make anything but gold or silver coin a tender in the payment of debt. Well, you come to me with your cow and I give you this because I'm forced to give you this. The state or somebody has just compelled me not to use this, this gold coin, in the payment of debt. So somebody is forcing us to violate the Constitution. So where in the Constitution does it give the power to Congress to delegate its sovereign power to a private entity? Even if Congress could print currency, even if it could, which the Congress doesn't give it power to, in fact, it was stripped from the Constitution, then it would be up to the Congress to print that, which it did during and after the Civil War. And that happened to be sustained by the Supreme Court. They said, oh, it's a time of emergency. We are combining a power to prosecute war with the power to coin money. That's what they did. And that was an abomination of the Constitution. But where did the Congress then get the power to delegate that authority to a private entity? That would be the equivalent of Congress's power to declare war to, say, General Dynamics or Raytheon. It's exactly that analogy. Congress can't delegate its power somewhere else. That's not there. We're asleep as our nation gets attacked. And Lucas, you're a young man. Your generation better wake up because your generation is going to pay the price. We can already see the price being paid in the medical field where people were compelled and forced to be genetically mutilated, literally. They were mutilated with this. And to me, it was an assault. Your body was injected with messenger RNA, which compelled, which forced your body to make a very toxic protein called spike protein, which induces clotting, inflammation, myocarditis, which can be fatal. It's not largely benign, as they would have you believe. It can damage the brain, kidneys. It probably damages the testicles, the ovaries. This has all been published. And we were forced to be injected unless you were enlightened and find some way out of it. This is what's happened. Real quick, before we move on, I did want to just kind of bring note to this for those who weren't aware. And most people aren't aware, they should be, but this emergency powers to print that Federal Reserve note, that was granted by FDR in 1933, correct? FDR, oh my God, this, I'm holding up a gold coin for the listeners, a United States five dollar gold piece. It's in my hand. Would you say this is my property? I would say. Right. I earned it, we'll say, right? FDR came at gunpoint and declared my holding of that gold coin the crime of hoarding, H-O-A-R-D-I-N-G, and criminalized it and stole the money, the wealth of the people in 1933. He took away my property, my gold, my ability to actually pay a debt, and then he replaced it with what I'm holding up now, which is a Federal Reserve note, a piece of debt currency printed out of thin air. So what he did was he took away my solvency, my ability to pay debt, and he reduced it to compelling me to be insolvent, and this is what's in the book. In the common law, if you're a debtor, you have no rights. This is English common law. You're at the mercy of your creditor. You owe him. He owns you. Now, we used to have debtor prisons, literal prisons where you were thrown in prison. Well, we don't have that anymore. There were debtor prisons without bars, and we're all compelled to use these debt notes. We're all compelled into debtorship at the hands of an unseen creditor who controls everything. That is the premise of our book. And this Emergency Act by FDR, this is still in act right now, 80, 90 years later. It's still there. However, parts of it have been lifted. Americans were not allowed to own gold again until Ronald Reagan's time in the 1980s. So parts of it have been lifted, but the currency aspect has not been lifted. In other words, we're still operating under a policy, not law, but policy, H.J.R. 192, House Joint Resolution 192, that it is public policy to discharge debt, not to pay it. We're still under that right now, and we're discharging debt. They're just printing this out of thin air. There's no risk to them. They're putting it out to the population. We have to pay it back with the sweat of our blood at interest, which guarantees that companies are going to go down every year because there's not enough to pay it back. Key terms, extinguished versus discharged there, discharged by means of hypothecation versus extinguished where the debt's no longer existent. And let's talk about hypothecation since you brought it up and we explained it in the book. Let's say the year's 1700, and we're under mercantile law, and my boat comes into shore loaded with furniture. You come along and you want that furniture, but you don't have the money to pay for it. I don't want to go back to England with a boat full of furniture. So I agree to leave the furniture with you unpaid. That furniture has a lien on it, a maritime lien. It's called hypothecation. And I own that furniture. It's my property until you pay it off. I can go and get that because you don't own it. That's called hypothecation. That's what we're dealing with today because this Federal Reserve note doesn't pay anything. It's a debt note. It's an IOU that's never paid off. Now let's say when I brought my ship in, you gave me notes. You actually paid me something. It wasn't gold or silver, but I could take those notes to the bank or whoever issued them and get my gold or silver. Now the debt's paid and extinguished. Does that make sense? Absolutely. You can't do that today. And I can show you evidence in the congressional record of all places where when they were debating this new currency, the Federal Reserve note, they admitted that it was backed by a lien on all the homes and other property of the people of the nation. So it represents a lien on everything. And Senate document, I think it's Senate document 42 or 43. At the end, it says, towards the end, like next to the last page, and this is an official government document. And I paid for and got a certified copy from the government printing office. It says that all property now is in the hands of the state and we have become mere users of said property by privilege. And this is in a government document after Roosevelt did what he did. I believe it's Senate document 43. It could be 42, but you could go online and read it and it'll blow you away when you see a government document, official government document, adopted by the Senate, admitting that you don't own anything. You are a mere user by privilege. Speaking of non-forthcoming governmental practices here, you mentioned earlier how we are all prisoners in a cell without bars. You spent some time behind actual bars. I did. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened there and how you came to be in the position you were? I'm happy to, actually. I stood up for the government in the 1990s. I challenged some IRS officers for using a civil summons to do criminal investigation. And I made one mistake. I admit it. I filed what's called a Liz Pendens on them, and that's not a crime, but it's a notice to the public that I have a lawsuit against them. I sued them because I felt damaged that they violated law in what they did. The government decided that was a crime, it was corrupt endeavor to impede. Well, it wasn't because they had already gotten the information that they wanted, so that part of the problem was over. I sued them because they got what they wanted unlawfully. So they came after me criminally for that, corrupt endeavor to impede. I didn't lie, cheat, or steal. I decided, because I had small children, I didn't want to take a risk and end up in prison. So I took a plea, and I didn't go to prison. I got 10 months probation. But it was, quote, a crime. And I've learned now that the regulations that they did didn't apply to me anyway. So I believe I can undo that, and I still plan on undoing that. They decided to get a double punishment on me from that, because I had created an entity, a trust to benefit my parents, who were elderly. And I never got a penny from that trust. And the IRS investigated it and agreed. Their original investigator agreed that I didn't get a penny from that, and it was a legitimate entity. Well, her superiors decided I should be punished more and unilaterally decided to assign all the income from the trust to me, even though I had no access to the property and I never received a penny from it. And I was forced to accept all the income from the trust, though I didn't get it. And then they tried to tax me for it. They wouldn't let me bankrupt it. And years go by and they finally try to collect on it. And then I realized, hey, wait a minute. This is now the year 2010 or 2012. They're coming after me for combined penalty and interest on this that had risen to well over a million dollars. And it was mostly penalties and interest, not actual taxes. The trust had been embezzled by somebody who took it over, who was a former IRS officer. And he took it over allegedly to try to help me out. And he kept all of the property, real property. I can prove this. Everything that I'm telling you is in court records and in property records. And people still living to this day would testify to this. I didn't get anything from that trust. So clearly it was taken from me and embezzled. Well, that's called a property loss, a casualty loss. So I filed a return with the IRS for a casualty loss that would have mitigated almost all of the fraudulent claims they were making against me for taxes. And they wouldn't process it. They cited a provision in law saying that, oh, you're beyond the statute of limitations in or the filing statute, which gives three years from the date of filing. Well, the original date of filing was 2003 or 2004. So if that return had been filed timely, then the deadline might have been 2006. Well, this was by the time this happened, it was 2010. Well, they cited that provision in law where the applicable provision of law was three years from the date you actually filed the return, not the original due date. Did I make, did I say that understandably? Yes. Okay. You have three years from your due date of filing your return, if you file it timely, or three years from the date of filing a late return to amend it or change it, as do they to audit it. So it's fair on both sides. Well, I filed that amended return four months after I filed the original return, showing the casualty loss and showing the proof. The IRS wouldn't process it. They just sat on it, wouldn't process it. So I took them to court to force them to process the return on a writ of mandate. The court sat on that writ of mandate and didn't rule on it for over a year. They did nothing. They just sat on it. In the meantime, the IRS is gathering up all of its weapons to come after me. And I didn't, and I wasn't paying it because I had an action in court that would have mitigated it. Well, the IRS finally raided me and they found that I had some gold coins and they stole all the gold coins and said, ha ha, you have the resources to pay a lot of this debt. So you evaded taxes. You weren't paying taxes that you owed. The guy who raided me, I said, didn't you know I had a case in court dealing with this? He said, no, I didn't know that. He might not have raided me, but he didn't know it. He should have known it, but he didn't. And what I didn't know is that to have done this properly, I should have paid the tax and then litigate. So technically it was a violation of law. I didn't pay the tax that I allegedly owed. I should have paid the tax and then litigate. I was litigating it first. I was delaying the payment of tax, which the Ninth Circuit had said is not a crime. Delaying taxes is not, delaying payment is not tax evasion. But they charged me with tax evasion because allegedly I had the resources and I didn't pay on demand because I had that case in court. Well, they did another really dirty thing. All of this is provable because all of this is in court records. If somebody wants to do a good investigation of me in a movie, I hope they do because the record is in filed court documents. They fabricated evidence against my wife. They filed, they fabricated, they created false evidence against my wife to indict her as well. And she got indicted along with me for tax evasion. Well, that broke me. My first duty in life after my obligation to God is to my wife. And I couldn't take, seeing how corrupt the court already was and how corrupt the prosecution already was in fabricating evidence, who knew what they would do in a court with my wife? I couldn't take the chance on my wife going to prison. And they did something that they never do. They had a felony indictment on my wife for tax evasion and me. And once they get an indictment like that, they don't let go. But I found where they had fabricated evidence. They falsified evidence. And when this was presented to them, they agreed to let her go if I took a plea. I couldn't say no. So I took a plea. She got out the next day. That should tell people something about what happened to me and my honor and my character. And I'm not ashamed of anything. I stood up to the government on two occasions. And unfortunately, as somebody once said to me with regard to the tax matter, you're standing up to the king. We still have a king in this country. We didn't get away from the king. The king was reestablished through the taxation system. And I could get into taxation and I could get into what really, what taxes really are and why. And we did that in part in the book. There is a chapter in the book showing that the tax really is legitimate. But it's based on the commercial paper because we're all in commerce. The tax is a commercial tax. It's a tax on commerce. And the use of Federal Reserve notes has compelled us all into commercial law. And the law of the sea, the ocean, has been pulled up onto the land. Our common law rights, the law of the land, has been mutilated. And it's now replaced with commercial admiralty law. And we prove that out in the book. So that was my second hit with the government. And because of that, the state medical board decided to suspend and ultimately take my license even though it has nothing to do with the practice of medicine and no one was injured. So the viewer should know that as well. Two clarifying questions on that. First, the IRS rated you, found gold, said you have assets to pay this debt. Would the IRS accept that gold as direct payment for the tax debt? That's a really good question. What the IRS did was it auctioned those coins for Federal Reserve notes and then applied the Federal Reserve notes to the debt. Now, interestingly, when I did this to pay and extinguish the debt, I sent the IRS and the state a gold coin. And the state sent the gold coin back saying it can't accept the coin. It's an invalid financial document. And it returned the gold coin. And that's in the book. Well, wait a minute. You're saying that I owe a debt. I paid you with actual money that is, according to government code 6850 and 6852, this is real money of the state and you're returning it. And the IRS sent me back a letter saying, we're going to credit your five dollar gold coin with five dollars because that's the face value of the coin. And I had a case in court, and this is in the book too, where I attempted to pay the alleged debt in gold. I was the first person since 1933. And by the way, all of this is because I believe I'm an honorable man and I read the law and I'm not stupid. I can read and understand what these laws say. So I wanted to pay the debt and extinguish it with real gold. The court denied my payment. In a little footnote at the end, it said that I did not inform the court what value, if any, the gold coin has. What value, if any, I'm quoting, the gold coin has. What monetary value, if any, the gold coin has. And it ordered the clerk to return my payment. At the same time, it said I owed a million dollars. Now this is interesting. What monetary value, if any? Well, it's not up to me to say what the value of that coin is. The Constitution granted that power to Congress to coin money and regulate the value thereof. So what the judge did there was a violation of the Constitution by telling me I have that power. The Congress has that power to tell you what the value of that coin is and it's five dollars worth of gold. And the court said, oh, you owe a million dollars. Clerk, return that coin to him. I never got the coin back. They stole the money. Someone stole the money and I never got the coin back, but it's in the record. The clerk was to return the gold while I owed a debt of a million or more of these pieces of paper. So to me, that tells me what's really going on in this country. The tax is a commercial tax on the transactions of their property, which they have every right to do because it's their property. They couldn't see the gold coin. And I took it all the way up to the Supreme Court on a writ of certiorari and I told the Supreme Court, if you sustain this, you're saying that you can't see real lawful United States money, gold coin, in the payment of debt. And that's in the record, too. And they wouldn't take the case. So I have now the court system not seeing the gold coin as having value. And I have the California taxing officials returning a gold coin saying it's an invalid financial document. Something is really amiss here, especially when the Coinage Act of 1792, which is still good law in this country, says what a dollar is. It's a fixed weight of gold and or silver. And I will also tell you that I have a document signed by a very high treasury official that says that he was asked, are these, Federal Reserve note in my hand, are these dollars? And he said, no, they are not dollars. You know they're not dollars because in the past, at the bottom of it, it used to say one dollar in silver payable to the bearer on demand. Well, the dollar was really the silver. The note was redeemable in the money. So it wasn't a dollar, but the dollar was the silver dollar. So we've been bamboozled in the greatest swindle, the greatest crime, in my opinion, in the history of humanity by the banksters. And you can really get a phenomenal understanding by reading the terrific book, The Creature from Jekyll Island and The Web of Debt. Second clarifying question I had on this for our listeners and viewers here, when did you establish this trust for your parents and how much of those real assets do you still own or anyone in your family have control over or access to? Zero. This was established around 1990 or 1991. I never got any of those assets. My father got some and paid taxes on it. He got some, but the IRS came, busted it up and assigned me the debt and they did not go after the remaining assets, which was considerable. It was real property in Alaska. They could have just taken it and paid off the debt. They didn't. They didn't have it. And he liquidated it and kept all the money. Him being the trustee who was assigned to the IRS? The trustee who was a former IRS officer. Now it's his karma. It's his karma. I've let it go. You know, this is a spiritual thing to me. He will, in my spiritual opinion, he'll pay a price. I'm not wishing anything on him, but he'll pay a price because I've gone to prison due to his deeds and everything was taken from my family due to his deeds and he lied about it. Well, it depends on what your spiritual belief is. So I let it go and I just accepted what has to happen, what happened to me. Maybe it happened because in another life I pulled something like this on somebody and I had to pay it back. Sometimes you just have to surrender to the universe. That's what I did. So no, there's nothing that exists from that. I lost everything and part of that trust was a nutritional supplement store, which was generating a fair amount of revenue. I lost all that too when I left Alaska. He took it off and proceeded to destroy the business because he screwed everybody he dealt with. He screwed me. He didn't pay me for my last month working there, measly $5,000 a month I was working for it as a physician in that clinic, which he took over and he wouldn't even pay me for the last month. And then eight months or nine months later, when he couldn't get anybody else to fill it, he called me back. I was overseas and I wouldn't even talk to him. I just heard him say on the phone, Doc, we need you back. We need you back. And I just hung up. For people in my generation, younger people, just getting out of college, maybe just getting out of high school, trying to figure out how to navigate this life, what words of wisdom can you impart on them? Read some real history. Know where we came from. Know what has been taken from us and look at what is happening so that you can see that if you don't stop it, you'll know where you are being taken. Read real history. We're trying to rewrite history. We know that. We can see it in the schools and even that is making mainstream press. But we talked about three books here, Griffin's book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, The Web of Debt, which really gets into what the banksters have done throughout history to accomplish what has happened to us. War. We're in a war right now. We're in a proxy war with Russia. Don't tell me that doesn't affect you. It does, even if you're not on the front line. It's going to affect your taxes, your children. We could be in a nuclear war soon. These books will explain how and why these wars come about and who benefits from it. I believe it's, I'm not sure which book it is, but it tells you that J.P. Morgan's outfit was affected by the sinking of the Lusitania, which drove us into World War I. Because if Britain would have lost the war, we were neutral in World War I. If Britain would have lost the war, all the loans that Morgan's bank gave to Britain would have been lost. So he had to make sure that the Americans entered the war and Britain won. Well, what's interesting is it was well known that aboard the Lusitania, there were American citizens traveling as passengers. And it was well known that the Lusitania was carrying munitions. According to the rules of war, if you want to call them rules of war, conventions of war, if a ship is carrying munitions, it's a target. If it's not, you're not allowed to sink a passenger ship. That's a war crime. But it's not a war crime if the boat is carrying munitions. The German embassy in the United States tried to advertise that the Lusitania was carrying munitions and would be targeted and begged Americans not to board that ship. The book I'm referring to, either Web of Debt or Creature from Jekyll Island, showed that Morgan's people had infiltrated the government and torpedoed those advertisements so that the people didn't get them. One advertisement remained and it was published in the Des Moines Register. So it did get out. The German embassy did the right thing, the honorable thing, and told the American public and the government that they were going to take down the Lusitania. The president knew and they did take it down. But then that engineered our entry into World War I at great cost and death into a horrible war. And that ultimately led to all of the fallout from that, including World War II. You've got to read these books to understand what war is about and why these wars happen. And I believe the proxy war in Ukraine is absolutely no different. Follow the money trail. Who's making the money and who is suffering? This proxy war did not have to happen. There were so many avenues to stop this war in advance or end it right up front with minimal loss to Ukraine. In fact, from what I can read, all Ukraine had to do was to agree not to join NATO. If they had done that, this wouldn't have been there. But instead, you have a guy with big gonads funded by our government, which is owned by the international banksters who can print unlimited currency that you're going to pay for, and fund this guy with brass balls who's not going to give up an inch and allow his country to be destroyed in the process. Prove me wrong, please. I'm open to being proven wrong. This is what your generation needs to pay attention to because we are losing our country really, really fast. And I'll close with something that I used to not talk about publicly. You know, I've tried to be a scientist to a degree, although the type of medicine I do is not scientific. It's individualized to you. You're not a study. You understand that. You are you. You're Lucas, and I've got to look at your parameters, not the parameters in a study. But what this, what I call scandemic or plandemic did to me in seeing an unprecedented coordination of everything, unlike anything I've ever seen in my life, it convinced me that there is a malevolent spiritual force on this planet. I can't see any other way that this could have happened because you had a coordinated effort of those in charge of disease maintenance or medicine or health at every level, the CDC, the FDA, government officials, a coordinated effort of the press to beguile us, a coordinated effort of the government and social media and the press to snuff us out if we gave, quote, misleading information, which was truthful information, as it turns out. This was coordinated on such a scale that I can't see it any other way than the evil force coming, taking its mask off and saying, I'm here. Now try to stop me. What are you going to do about it? That's how I see it, and I believe that it's loose. It's out there. I am not a Bible thumper, but I can't help but look at this from a spiritual perspective because the people were beguiled. They rolled their sleeves up and took this vaccine. Yes, they would have lost their jobs if they didn't because their employers were beguiled and forced them to take it, but it is beguiling. No one came up to them with a gun like what happened in 1933 and said, you're taking the vaccine. They just were told, you're going to lose your job because everybody was beguiled, and that, to me, is what the malevolent force does. So I hope the people will wake up because I have to think there's still hope. Wake up, calibrate your moral compass, read real history. Dr. Rowan, appreciate your time. Thanks for imparting us with some wisdom. I look forward to embarking on this journey with you down the road. Hopefully, we can put out many, many more episodes for those who need it. Thank you for listening to this conversation with Dr. Rowan. Now, I would like to leave you with some wisdom by George Orwell. In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. Telling the truth is a revolutionary act. If you found this conversation inspiring, please share it with your friends, family, or coworkers. Until next time, stay well.