Episode 1: The Warmth of Venezuela

In this episode of the Pots, Pans, and Gritos podcast, host Nolan Shigley interviews two students, Maria Jose and Maria Victoria, who share their experiences of adjusting to a new country and learning a new language. They discuss the importance of family in Venezuelan culture, their love for Venezuelan food, and their passion for baseball. They also talk about the challenges of feeling accepted in a new culture and the difficulties they faced when they first arrived in the United States. Despite the initial struggles, they have excelled academically and have found support in their community. We have no weapons, we only have pots and pans. We have no power, we only have pots and pans. Beat the pots, bang the pans. This is a revolution. Welcome to the Pots, Pans and Gritos podcast, a voice for the English learner. I'm your host, Nolan Shigley. In this episode, we celebrate our podcast's first interview with two of my Salem High students, Maria Jose and Maria Victoria. These two young ladies joined our EL program as newcomers with little English, but in a short amount of time, their language acquisition excelled, much like their academic performance. Today, they share stories of their Venezuelan culture and discuss the challenges of adjusting to a new country while learning an unfamiliar language. Along with our interview, you will be treated to the beautiful melodies of Jailay, a band from Miami, Florida, whose heritage includes Cuba, El Salvador and Venezuela. Their music has been described as psychedelic, shoegazing dream pop. We are gracious to the band for allowing us to share extended portions from their album, As Sweet As I Was. As always, our mission is to create an archive of meaningful accounts while sharing artists with similar experiences and cultural backgrounds. And now, here are their stories. Since you are both so studious, I thought we would start our program with a little quiz. This or that. Are you ready? Yes. Number one. Doritos or Takis? Doritos. Wrong answer. Number two. Messi or Ronaldo? Messi. That was a stupid question. Number three. K-pop or Taylor Swift? K-pop. Yeah, I will say K-pop. You will say K-pop. Yes. Number four. Salsa or Merengue? I will say salsa. Merengue. And finally, have you noticed the questions are getting more difficult as we go? You're pausing longer. Number five. Arepas or empanadas? Arepas. That was easy for Maria Victoria. Oh, Maria Jose is... I would say it depends. Like, I would say empanadas. Wow. I can't believe you went against arepas. So, true story. My girlfriend and I, our first date. We had Venezuelan arepas. Maria, introduce yourself. Hi, my name is Maria. I'm 20 years old and I'm currently a college student, dual majoring in biology and Spanish. It sounds so complicated, but... It's not as complicated as it sounds. No. I think it is, because you're accomplishing it all at the same time. Hi, I'm good. How are you? I am well. Introduce yourself. Well, I'm Maria. I'm from Venezuela. I'm 17 years old and I'm a junior in high school. Let's talk a little bit about the culture of Venezuela. What do you remember growing up about Venezuela? What do you remember about the culture of Venezuela? What do you remember growing up about Venezuela? What do you remember of Venezuela when you left? I would say, if I have to say just one word, I would say family. Because most of the Venezuelan culture is based on family. Like, everything we do or we celebrate is with family. Like, we eat with family. We make things with family. We go to travel with family. And it's like, I think, in my opinion, my culture is more based on how I am so close with my family. I agree with Maria, but my family is not, like, big enough to have, like, the parties or celebrations. All Venezuelan families do. It's, like, almost the same. So, what are some of the favorite aspects of Venezuela, of your culture? The food. I really love the food. It's, like, my best, my favorite part of my culture is, like, the food. Like, we have so many flavors. Like, for example, the arepa. You can try, like, arepa has, like, so many things that you can try on. And it's, like, the best thing you can try. It's, like, my favorite thing. I cannot live without arepas. That's the only thing I'm going to say. So, arepas. Arepas. Arepas is the top. So, arepas is number one in your culture? Yeah. I am guessing maybe baseball is number two? Kind of, yeah. It depends on the person you are talking to. For us, I would say the third one. Okay. So, what is number two? Number two, I would say, like, for example, for me, it's, like, celebrations. Celebration is, like, my second favorite thing in Venezuela. Like, for example, Christmas and New Year's, we have, like, it's like a mini party. We are all of the family, and we hug each other, and we are, like, having fun time with everybody. And we have, like, fireworks. Fireworks. Fireworks. And it's, like, the best thing you can do on Christmas and New Year's Eve. Like, it's really good. So, I say baseball because, well, we go to Salem Red Sox baseball games all the time. And we've created these partnerships and relationships with the Salem Red Sox. So, you both have become enormous fans of baseball. And I thought it was because of me and my influence, but I'm finding out that maybe not. You were already baseball fans before you moved here. Can you tell me about that baseball culture in Venezuela? I would say it's, like, the second important sport in Venezuela. I would say the first one is football, but they are too bad. Like, they are so bad. We don't even go to the World Cup. We don't go. Like, we are so bad that it's not good. But on baseball, we are really good, and I'm proud of that. I think I never went to a baseball game in Venezuela, but my family does. And I think my favorite one, I would say, is Las Aguilas del Zulia, which is really good. And that makes me so proud because I am from the Zulia. And, like, patriotism. It sounded like Maria Victoria was disagreeing with your team. Okay, Maria, who's your team? My family is from Valencia, so they go for Magallanes. And, yeah, I go for Magallanes, too. My mom and my dad are, like, big fans of baseball. And their first date as a couple was in a baseball game. Wow. The first date was a baseball game. Like, I am so jealous. Now, which is funny because we have visited all together. We've gone to baseball games together. And I've sat with your parents, both of your parents. And we just have amazing conversations in Spanglish and English and Spanish, talking about baseball in Venezuela, talking about baseball in Boston, here in Salem, Virginia. And we're just kind of feeding off of each other and learning vocabulary. I'm learning lanzador in Spanish. And they're like, no, mister, we can just say pitcher. So it's been so much fun hanging out with you all at baseball games. But I absolutely love sitting with your parents at baseball games. Okay, so speaking of the culture of Venezuela, what are some of those comforts? What are some of those aspects of your culture that you miss living here in the United States? I would say that I really miss the warm people. I really miss how kind the people are in Venezuela. I miss the accent. I miss how everybody is, like, friendly to each other. And I miss how they relate on each other. Like, I miss how they are with me. And here in the United States, that doesn't feel like it is. I mean, it seems like it is. I don't feel like I can capture that feeling. Actually, I don't remember that much about society in Venezuela. But I was a little kid, so for me it was not racism, that kind of thing. And it was good. Do you perceive that your experiences with maybe Americans hasn't been as warm? It sounds like... It feels like kind of frustrating because some of the Americans, they are friendly. But it's not the same thing that say Venezuelan people are friendly. Because those are my people. It depends on what kind of people. Of course, there will be bad people and good people. But for me, it's like I feel like a foreigner. And sometimes Americans don't want me to, like, feel like fitting in their group. It does make me sad because, you know, I want to feel the warmth. I want to feel like they belong to some kind of group. But here I feel like I'm kind of another Latina. And sometimes it's bad. But at the end, sometimes I feel like probably there is people that feel like I belong to their group. But I will not generalize. No. So, Maria Victoria, kind of bouncing off of what Maria was saying, how do you feel in terms of being accepted in your new culture as you adjust? I feel like I don't belong here, but I don't belong in Venezuela. And I don't belong to any place in the air. I feel like I'm in the air. And that's sad. Yeah. So, I have a lot of students that kind of struggle with identity as well, whether they are Chicano, Chicana, who don't know or are sometimes confused on which culture they want to celebrate or they should celebrate. I always preach that you should celebrate all the cultures that you are part of. So, you said not Venezuela, not Argentina, and not United States. Is there a reason for that? I feel like I don't have enough culture about that country to practice in my life every day. You haven't spent enough time in these places? Maybe. Because I left Venezuela when I was 11, and I lived four years in Argentina, and then I come here. And I feel like I don't belong of any of these places. Do you think that feeling will change over time? I don't think so. Because here in America, they treat you like Hispanic, and you always will be Hispanic. Not Venezuelan, but Hispanic. Yeah. Let's continue with this idea of adapting to a new culture. How did you survive when you first arrived to the United States? So, those first few days, that first week. It was first training. I hated my first week. It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. It was supposed that I was graduating in Argentina, but then I came here, and they told me, oh, no, you have to take again your junior year. And it was like, it was frustrating because all of my friends back in Argentina or in Venezuela, they were graduating. And I was like feeling like, oh, again? Do I have to memorize everything again? Do I have to do everything again? Like, what do you mean I have to take my junior and senior year again? But it was frustrating. I cried every day, and I told my mom that I didn't feel good. I didn't feel like I was good enough. And when I came here, my first class was, it was science. And Michelle was the best person ever in my life. I miss her, even if she just, even if I took just one class with her. And she made me feel like I belonged to her class. And even you was the best person I ever met, and even the EL class. You guys made me feel like I belonged. And even if I don't feel like I was prepared to do my junior and senior year, I really like my junior and senior year here in the United States because, like, going to a baseball game, going to a Christmas thing, having these type of events, that never happened to me in Argentina, not even in Venezuela. So it was frustrating, but at the same time, I will say, like, if I have to say in just a word, I will say bittersweet. And I miss those days, yeah. I know it sounds horrible that you had to repeat two years of school. I can't even imagine what that would feel like. I remember as a kid, we moved from Florida to Nebraska, and I was a ninth grader, but I had to go back to middle school because the middle school was six to nine or seven to nine, whatever it was. But I didn't have to repeat two years. But selfishly, selfishly, I am so glad you had to repeat those two years because I could not imagine being an EL teacher and having not met you and having all these experiences with you in our multicultural club, at our baseball game, and just our enlightening discussions in class. So from a selfish standpoint, I'm glad you had to repeat those two years. Hey, it improved your English, right? So you definitely got something out of it, and now you're a successful student at Roanoke College. I like it. I like how my life has went. It's like a new chapter. I don't believe in coincidence, but I like this type of coincidence that things happen because they are meant to be. Maria Victoria, it's your first week of school. What are you thinking in your brain? How do you adjust? How do you survive? What was it like? First of all, I was mad because I had to repeat my sophomore year. Oh, my gosh. Like Maria. So this is a repeating story. And they told me I had to do it because I didn't speak English. And I was so mad. And I'm glad I had the Spanish class last year with La Señorita because I feel like I belong here because they all have, like, similar situations like me. And the EL classes, too, the multicultural club, I feel like I belong there. That makes me very, very happy. Yeah. We are reaching our mission. We are reaching our goals of making you feel accepted and creating a safe place for our EL students. What expectations do you have of yourself? It's a new culture, a new language. Do you still have the same high expectations you had of yourself when you were in Argentina, when you were in Venezuela? Yeah, I do. I think this is more like things that my mom taught me. Like when I started to educate myself in the school system, every time it was, like, having high grades, doing everything, like, on time, doing everything, like, having, like, they have, like, high expectations for you to accomplish. Like, it's not, like, something personal, but it's more like how your parents will be proud of what you did in high school. Like, for tennis, like, I will work, I'm going to work, and you should have, like, high grades. For me, it's almost the same as Maria, but it is difficult to have, like, the expectations, like, over you all the time, and maybe you can't, like, accomplish that because of the language, and it was difficult. Like, last year, I just came here, and I didn't know any English, so it was difficult at first, but now I think I can handle it. Do you feel that your teachers have had high expectations of you? No. They are like, do whatever you can do, and that's fine. And I don't like that because it's like, okay, I appreciate the patient they are, but I feel like they are treating me like I don't know anything they are talking about, or, like, I don't understand what they are saying, and that makes me feel bad. No, they don't even have any expectation of me when I was, like, my junior and senior year. Like, maybe probably senior year because I was taking, like, advanced course, but it was frustrating every time somebody of my classmates, they would pick up every time. I was like, please, I was, like, feeling like, this sounds really bad. It's like a term for, like, a pick me. Like, please choose me. I want to, like, I want your attention. I want your attention. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I want, like, that kind of attention. Like, I know you can give it to me, but you don't want to because you feel like I don't understand you, but I do understand you. Like, please choose me. Like, I want to, like, surprise you about it. And I wonder if that's one of the factors is that a mainstream teacher is afraid that maybe you can't understand what they're saying or fully understand. But sometimes there's a fear in a mainstream teacher, right? It's like, okay, I have to teach someone from another culture, another language. How do I do that? And whenever I lead professional developments, the message I always try to send is we want to scaffold, not the material, the language. So we want to make our English instructions accessible, but we don't want to dumb down the material. You two are two of the strongest students I've ever had. So I can completely understand if you're sitting in a biology class or a math class and, you know, maybe you're placed in a lower level class than you really should be simply because of a language barrier. When really it's, you know, it's our jobs to scaffold the language so that you can understand the instruction, but not necessarily scaffold or, like I said, water down the actual material, the SOM material. Girls, why is learning English important to you? I would say, like, because I'm 20 years and I'm, like, at that point of life that I should have a social life, then that will be the most important thing. Like, I want to communicate with other people. Like, I want to make friends. I want to say my feelings to them. I want to, like, hang out with them and have a real conversation. But if I don't, like, I don't know anything of, like, I don't have anything, like, learning on English, then what's the point, like, living here and not knowing anything? I know some people, like, they have, like, this type of difficult learning English. But, I mean, for me, like, I keep my ‑‑ I try my best to learning because I want to communicate with other people that don't know my language, and I want to feel included in the society, too. For me, I think English is, like, a key for a door that conducts me to heaven, something like that, because if you speak English, you can do whatever you want in any place on earth. And that's something I want to know, like, knowing English. I appreciate the metaphor. So, what are the tools that helped you learn English? As a newcomer, what helped you continue learning English as an intermediate learner? Okay, this is funny, because I have, like, a whole history of that. I know when I went here, I know some kind of English. It was, like, kind of basic, but at the same time, it wasn't that basic. It was, like, intermediate. When I was, like, 12 years old, I created a Twitter account, because this was, like, one direction thing, like, Taylor Swift, Selena Gomez, like, Justin Bieber, and mostly I didn't want to talk with the Spanish people. And all of the accounts were in English. And then, for that reason, I know a lot of English, but at the same time, I didn't know that. And I use my translator every time I want to, but at the same time, I was, like, using it, but at the same time, I don't. I was, like, practicing with my internet friends, and it was good. I like it. And all your discussion was about K-pop, yes? No, actually, at that time, I didn't like K-pop. I like one direction. Talking about how Harry Styles, like, what makes you beautiful was, like, the top thing on Twitter. For me, when I came here, I used a lot Google Translate, because I didn't know anything. And I didn't have a level of English before I came to the U.S., so I was so lost here. I didn't understand, like, basic things, and that was frustrating. So, you have a very funny story about learning English, not in Venezuela, but in Argentina. All right, tell the story. It's one of my favorite stories of yours. Okay. I used to live in Neuquén, Neuquén, Argentina. And I don't know why, but they have this type of hate thing on Americans, on United States. I don't know why, but— Does Messi hate Americans? I mean, he's living in Miami, like— Oh, that's true. Never mind. I don't think so. Good, good. But my English teacher, she had, like, this strong accent. And that strong accent, it was like the British one. And she, one time we were talking, I was talking with her, and I have this type of, like, curiosity about, what are you talking like this, like, with that accent? And she told me, oh, no, it's because in Argentina, we don't teach the American one. We teach the British one. And then for that reason, I always say, hello, mate. It's true, baby. I like it. I like the British accent. For that reason, they don't say it has some of that. Like, London boy is, like, dope. Maria Victoria? My English teacher was, like, so bad at speaking. It was so bad. You can understand her, like, but you can't understand her. And she was, like, if a kid say something right, she was, like, no, that's not how you say that. And it was, like, hello, like, with a French accent. And it was weird. Well, I can feel their pain because, you know, I try to use Spanish sometimes in my newcomer's class. So I make lots and lots of errors as well. Ladies, you're both extremely educated. You're bilingual. You're taking advanced placement classes. You, Maria, I say you, Maria. We have two Marias. You, Maria Jose, you are actually being successful in Roanoke College. So question, what are your future plans? What are these future successes I'm going to hear about for Maria Victoria? What are your plans after high school for Maria Jose? What are your plans going forward with college? So I want to be, like, I want to be doctor. I want to be a neurologist. But here in the United States, you don't have the, like, the major in medicine. You have to go to, like, a college and then go to med school. And that makes me feel like, okay, I have to take a lot of things, like a lot of steps. And I'm majoring in biology. So I have, like, a lot of options if I do want to go to med school. But for me, like, what I want is, like, finish my biology and Spanish major, graduate college, and then go to med school. I really want to become a doctor. I don't know what type of specialist I want. But I have, like, this type of feeling of neurologist. I want to know everything about it. Like, it makes me feel happy to know, like, my name in my card saying Dr. Rondon. And it makes me, like, more happy, like, how my mom will be really proud of me and my dad. Like, when, like, I imagine people saying, like, my friends or even you saying, oh, I used to have, like, a student, and she's right now a doctor. Like, one of the best one in, like, in Virginia, something like that. Maria Victoria, what is after high school? I want to go to college and study psychology. After that, I want to study to be a flight attendant. Travel the world. Yeah. I want to visit, like, a lot of places around the world. And that makes me happy. I want to travel the world. Yeah. I want to visit, like, a lot of places around the world. And that makes me happy. Yeah. I want to visit, like, a lot of places around the world. Yeah. 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