Moral Policing and Women: Ini Semua Salah Patriaki

This is the first episode of the podcast Keeper Demokrasi, hosted by Hapis from Pocalus Polo and featuring Enoch and Rina from Hik Kandi Initiative. They discuss political morality, women's rights, and the impact of moral policing. Pocalus Polo advocates for freedom of expression and is currently focusing on moral policing and its effects on Malaysian society. They invite Rina to talk about period poverty, which is related to moral policing and women's oppression. They also discuss the MeToo movement and how moral policing discredits women's voices. Hai, selamat datang ke episod pertama podcast kita, Keeper Demokrasi. Hari ini bersama saya, hos Hapis dari Pocalus Polo dan bersama saya juga hari ini saya mempunyai ahli Pocalus Polo, Enoch dan isteri yang indah, Rina dari Hik Kandi Initiative. Jadi, hari ini adalah podcast pertama kita, podcast kita akan bercakap mengenai politik moral dan operasi wanita, ini semua salah patriarki. Jadi, sebelum kita bermula dengan podcast kita, saya rasa saya perlu memperkenalkan pertama-tama organisasi saya, Pocalus Polo. Okay, kata orang tak kenal maka tak cinta, dah kenal belum tentu lagi bercinta kan? A little bit introduction of Pocalus Polo, we are a new and upcoming group of young activists under the Youth Advocacy Academy on freedom of expression 2023. Pocalus Polo advocate mainly on the issue of freedom of expression, freedom of assembly and freedom of association, hence the name of Pocalus Polo ataupun Artikel 10. Currently, we are making a campaign on moral policing and creating awareness on how moral policing affect Malaysian and affect the youth and affect our life. So, currently we are making, for today's program we are making a podcast to share and hear other opinion in regard of how moral policing affect individual life. Okay, so we started our first podcast session with our topic of today, moral policy on freedom of expression, ini semua salah peceraiki. Okay, a little bit introduction on me, my name is Hafiz, I'm a Pocalus Polo member. I'm currently, a little bit background on me, I'm currently reading law in a postgraduate level at a certain public university and also with me, my guest speaker would be Pocalus Polo member also, Enoch, would you mind introduce yourself? Alright, so hello there, good morning, good evening and good afternoon to whenever our listeners are listening to, my name is Enoch, I will be your co-host for the day and I'm the secretary for Pocalus Polo. I am now currently at the moment studying Masters of Public Administration at also at a certain local public university, public university. Alright, so at the same time, we would like to introduce as well Miss Rina, Miss Rina would you like to introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Rina, I am a communications director from Srikanthi Initiative. So, about our CSO, we advocate for women's rights, so our campaign right now, we are focusing on period poverty. Yeah, that's an interesting issue actually, something we are talking about and I think that when we talk about moral policing and female empowerment right, it's coincident with our topic of today, especially on moral policing and women's oppression. So, your campaign on period poverty, female empowerment, it's actually coincident with our topic, that's why we actually invite you today. So, a little bit on the issue of moral policing and women now. Moral policing towards women has always been an issue, I would say, that harmed the progress of female empowerment for many decades. Recent cases on a bar entry because of dress code in Balai Polis has created a lot of debate in social media. An interesting statement has been made by one of the local MP, YB Rara, saying that there should be no moral policing, prejudice or sexual harassment of a woman, especially in regard of moral dress code and women's dress code right, especially in Balai Polis, where justice and peacekeeping is supposed to be held. This is just an example of how moral policing affects women from dress code, female autonomy, healthcare decisions to silence culture. It seems that such prejudices and sexist practices have always been a rally of oppression of political system. So, kita can explore a bit further the issue then give our two-cent opinion on this matter, sit in on our podcast to understand more on this issue. Let's start our podcast with a warm-up question first. In your opinion, what is the main issue regarding moral policing? Specifically, in the context of Malaysia and towards women nowadays. Would anyone like to answer this? Miss Rina, what's your opinion? I think the main issue regarding moral policing comes from lack of education and awareness. The second one would be because all of this stems from our customs, our religion and also our culture. So, I think it plays a very big role in this. It's also like something about from our own ignorances. Something like we don't want to know or we don't know. It's not really a big issue in general. That's a great view actually. That is sometimes ignorance and maybe this ignorance can be stemmed from a patriarchal system because we are being raised in a patriarchal system. So, we have been mindset this is an issue that just a remain issue. No need to take it upon. Let's say, for example, period poverty. Some people just taking it as remain and everything. I think we will explore further in our next question. So, let's go to our next question. My second question would be, we know that women are mostly subjected to various degree of moral policing, especially in the aspect of lifestyle, clothing, religion and so forth. What aspect relate you to the most and why? Would we want to start with Enoch first? Yeah, so technically we know for a fact that Malaysia is a majority Islamic country. Of course, other faith can be practiced here as well. So, we have like the Christians, the Buddhists, etc. So, when it comes to a lot of moral policing that is happening in Malaysia, there is always something that is mostly clothing, which we are going to have to explore about it. For example, and also in relation to social norms, gender roles, etc. So, the common stereotype is that the guys will always, how you say, do tukad rumah, not doing anything and the women just gonna have to do the housework and everything. Depending on the mindset, I would say it depends on the mindset. Lifestyles, I mean, I would concede to the point that men and women have different lifestyles. It's just that most of the time when it comes to how women always being mostly targeted upon because you cannot do this, you cannot do that, you cannot wear this, you cannot wear that. So, you do not really find this a lot of most of the time from the perspective of the men themselves. I mean, aside from the things about how men's behavior or don't be a sissy or you cannot wear this, you cannot wear that. Or even down to the aspects of what music you cannot hear, things you cannot say, things you cannot hear and whatnot. So, there's kind of like a lot of things, a lot of layers when it comes to moral policy, something along those lines. So, even like say, like this, my dating in general, I'm not dating yet, but say for example, I'm dating this one particular girl and they're like, oh, why do you date her? Because she's different skin color than you. To me, there's something along those lines, you see. Or I'm not like saying it's bad or like what, it's something like, say for example, if you're going, if you're like hanging out with your friends, and then people will start to question you about like, why are you hanging out with these people? Because there's a connotation, like stereotype connotations, because like say, this particular people is very dirty, this particular people cannot be trusted by people. I'm not sure if that would be falling under moral policing, but I can understand the how like moral policing would mean that. Something that's actually interesting is how you were saying that gender stereotype and idealism and making a woman being put into an ideal personification. I would say that. Put it on the pedestal, put it on the spot, perfect spot for perfect women. Yeah, and then when you didn't adhere to this perfect ideal pedestal, when women adhere to it, people condemn her. I think that is a kind of something as sexist and prejudice, when even people have a different moral value, people have different opinions and things and everything. Different backgrounds. Yeah, different backgrounds, different cultures and everything. And we should not adhere to a one standard style of what would be an ideal, I would say, ideal personification of women. Ideal goddess, is it? What's your thought on this matter? Yeah, actually, I relate to all, but if I have to pick one, I would definitely pick dressing. Especially as a mother, people put expectations like, oh, why do you dress like this? Why you should look more like an adult? You should give a better example for your daughter, for your children. For me, whatever I wear, it's not how I educate my children. That's just me. It's a part of me, my personality. It doesn't matter how I wear, sexy or modest, because it's our right. You have your autonomy. And also my child, if my child wants to wear anything, I would be fine with it. That is actually the most common issue that Malaysian women have faced. Especially in the issue of clothing. You raised up the case of the one woman who was a bad entry to the police. In February, I think, there were cases where a woman was not allowed to file a police report at the Balai Polis because she was not adhering to the dress code. This is problematic, actually. Because especially when you're thinking about it, that Balai Polis is a vital and important element of our lives. Essential things. If dress code is becoming something and policy that bar someone from entering or making a report, doesn't it just a denial of justice? Isn't it? The same also would be in hospital. Let's say if it's an emergency situation and everything, if dress code is becoming an issue, wouldn't that deny the function of why we have this kind of vital services? I think I also want to raise a very important question. There tends to be an idea of selective enforcement within the security guard. Some of the officers will say, I really don't care, you just get in. Some people would be out and you would meet some officers also, like you say, wait, wait, wait, what are you wearing? You are not allowed to come in because you're dressing this and that. So it always has that kind of issue. Who gets to enforce this kind of dress code? And is it tends to be a very selective one. Into the next question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you, so three initiatives, you talk about the issue of period poverty, which has been, you've been advocating for this, you want to campaign for this in general, right? So if you want to talk about like period poverty in Malaysia, but you think that the idea of period poverty, then this matter has been something that people have seen as like a taboo or something that needs to be hush, not really being discussed upon, right? Would you agree that the reason why the idea of period in general or period poverty in general were not talked about, was it because of our patriarchal mindset or was it something else in your opinion? When we talk about period poverty. So what do you think, Serena? So I also, yeah, I would agree that they were not stemmed from patriarchal mindset. Yeah, so I would really wanted to like, for maybe for our listeners, maybe they don't understand the concept about like period poverty. I think I also don't really understand also. So can you explain to us like what is period poverty all about? Actually, what it's supposed to mean? So period poverty in Malay is called kemiskinan haid. So kemiskinan haid, there's a lot of factors why a woman or a person with haid is poor in that sense. Because like lack of facilities, lack of access, ataupun like stigma, ataupun like you cannot talk about it anywhere. And then like, you know how some rural places, like they don't have access at all compared to like other places, for example, like in the city. So, and then like period poverty is also like, so instead of the usual common sanitary pads, like you know like the pads that have rings and non-rings, right? So instead of that, they use like kain burut, sometimes like stockings, and wet cases. And then like wet cases, they actually use pasir. Because they don't have anything to cover, yes. Oh my goodness. Oh wow, yeah. That's really shocking. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, the baro I know about it. So, seadangnya, orang yang ada yang period poverty ni, banyak orang sakit lah. Orang akan sakit from it, yeah. So, I mean like which means like, you already have a lot of like risk of infection. Yes. I remember that these issues were, usually were not being talked about until like, I would say it's becoming an issue during certain, last year I think, some MP actually brought this issue in the parliament and it's becoming something that being talked upon. Before this, it was not something that people talk upon and people tend to hush, hush this matter, yeah. Making it, yeah. They don't even know what it is. Yeah. Reasoning, given just now you're saying that, the stigma and everything is the reason why, period poverty was something that people doesn't like to talk upon. Would you care to elaborate it? Elaborate? Kenapa awak rasa period poverty ni? Ah. Macam tabu lah. Tabu. Macam kenapa awak rasa macam stigma. Cakap, cakap period on, eh, jangan cakap, jangan cakap on. Oh. Orang kata cakap dalam kain lah. Oh. Because I think like, the main reason why is because Malaysia ni is majority, apa? Islamic country or is it like, the context of like religious, really religious. Conservative, I would say. Conservative type of things. Conservative lah. Conservative would be. Conservative and Islamic lah. Oh, okay. So macam, majority kat Malaysia ni, majority ni conservative Islam, Muslim kan. So macam, untuk diorang, untuk kita yang agama Islam, we deem that period ni sebagai najis berat. Ah. Yeah, okay. I think got to all lah maksudnya. Yeah. So that's why kita orang hush-hush about it. Uh-uh. Which sucks because benda tu like, they get kicked for so long, sampai we don't even have education about it. We don't know how to manage it. We don't know how to tackle it. We don't know how to spread awareness about it. So macam, benda tu susah lah kat Malaysia ni. Is it because macam like, the educational and the healthcare side of things is not elaborate the most? As in like, the, let's say for example, the health side of it, educational side of it, about like poverty in general. Was it because it was like, or I would say, I'm not sure if this is the correct framing. Is it because like the majority of Malaysians will view like period or period poverty in general in the framework, in the context and the framework of religious, ajam religious argument rather than healthcare or ajam? Yeah. I think it's, I think mainly it's like religion, religious punya ni lah. Real point lah to tackle about it. Let's go on to another question, right? Which is about the MeToo movement in general. I think for our listeners, perhaps you might be familiar with the idea of the hashtag MeToo movement where there are certain, well, it started in the entertainment industry, if I'm not mistaken, which exposed, which we have the female staff or the female actresses coming out and expose the, what do you call it? The alleged wrongdoings of some of the male directors being like sexually harassed them or sexually assaulted them in like any way, shape or form. So when it comes to like the idea of MeToo movement in general, so what do you think about the whole movement? And that's the first part of the question. And the second part of the question is, how do you think that this, the idea of moral policing in general have discredited the women's voice and therefore dampens the, what do you call that? This movement for quite some time. So what do you think about it? I think that the MeToo movement is revolutionary. Actually very revolutionary. Yeah, I would agree to that actually. Great description actually. Yeah, that's what I thought. So I think it's very great sebab movement ni dilahirkan suddenly, it's not suddenly because like by the years, people susah nak percaya, people susah nak percaya especially like if a woman doesn't have any proof. Because they will only listen if you have proof and even if you have proof, people will salahkan you lah. Like why you wear like this? Why you keluar malam kan? Yeah, they're trying to discredit what your voice is, isn't it? Yeah, that's the moral policing lah. Like even if you have proof, people would say, Oh, kenapa you layan? You need a first aid. Yeah, that's also what I would call is victim blaming. Yeah, victim blaming. So macam like this whole MeToo movement in general kind of like gives the, I would say the more solidarity platform for the women to try to voice out. I think it's not just within the entertainment industry. So this, because this movement has been spread into all across the world, which gives the women a lot of like the empowerment that they need to voice out against their, I should say, some of their sexual harassers who go against them and whatnot, which has been suppressed for a very long time. And I kind of like, I would, I'll be, what would you call that word for it? I would be very, what do you call it? Salute them lah for their, this kind of. Why do you think this, how do you say, why do you think that this kind of female voice has been dampened? Kenapa, what is the reason behind it? What is the factor that? I think it's because like, even the Me Too movement is very revolutionary. Before the Me Too movement lah, why is it this happened? Does society view the women as male object or anything? And then why is it that we tend to become blaming when a woman pressing up that, there's something wrong happening. Why do we tend to victim blaming rather than trying to hear or trying to make a solidarity? So like, for me, that's before and after. Before, yes, I think that people would objectify women. People would think that, oh, women, women's opinions don't matter because you're a woman. You don't hold any, you don't hold any power. Your opinion doesn't matter. Yeah, your opinion doesn't matter. Like you have, you know. I wouldn't say your opinion doesn't matter. I think it's because society, they see that your opinion are lesser than mine. Yeah, that's a good, that's a great way to say it. That's why, if you see the history of patriarchal, right, how women are pending, that's what we call as gender stereotypes, bias. Oh, okay, women can only be a housewife and they tend to be emotional and everything. It goes back, I also would like to highlight also the idea of like the idea, like the idea of opinion of a woman is less than a man. If you understood the history of some certain religions, I'm not going to name which one, okay, because I don't want to jump in, but well, not just religions in general. I think it's also the cultures during back in the Middle East area. They have the idea that the testimony, if you're in like court hearings in testimony last time, they regarded the testimony of a woman is half of a man. So that's why sometimes you need two female witnesses in the legal system. If you need two female witnesses, it is equivalent to a one man's witness. That is something that much more complex. But yeah, I wouldn't say it's more on the religious perspective. I think it's more on the cultures. It's also a culture. It's not religious. And then I don't think that that argument will tend to hold up, especially in our current political climate. Especially in the quote unquote modern times. It's supposed to be changing. And then I come up with it about like, kind of before and after. So the after, like why it's damping because there's a lot of false accusations. But if you want to compare the true and the false, it's so different though. Yeah, it's not even half. It's not even 40% I think. Because like, because of like, okay. Macam mana nak cakap macam kita dahulu orang tak percaya. So like, if that's the reason why I chose the term revolutionary because suddenly everybody's speaking out. Everybody has the courage. Everybody feels like they can do this together. They're not alone. Solidarity lah. Yeah, solidarity. So macam false accusation, people only think about like false accusations. But what about the true ones? Yeah, the true ones. I mean, we let's, I mean like, we have to be objective here sometimes because there are some, there are certain, also some women will always take advantage of like being, making false claims against other people, like other men also, and destroy their careers, destroy their lives. We also like, don't want to dismiss that. Dismiss that because there has been certain cases where certain women, but then again, I believe like the whole Me Too movement has been a rather, what you said right, revolutionary. Because for the first time in like, I think in the first time in the entire world history, I would say, I'm not, I don't know if that's going to be the right term for it, but like you give the, it unites all the women across the world to finally have that kind of like power to say, to speak out against their, their aggressors, or like their sexual assaulters or something along those lines. So I think that's like quite a really great movement in itself. Okay. Let's go to our other question. And it's really, there's a certain period spot check I would say it's dehumanizing and in democratic You're in sekolah? Yeah, dekat sekolah. Sekolah apa tu actually? Sekolah usually, it's sekolah, abra, asama. Others, let me give an example. Sometimes they are doing a period spot check too. They will asking the, some other will be making a bodily check. Body check. Yeah, body check, which is an invasion of privacy. Yeah, I agree. And then second, whether they will ask someone to go to the toilet, swab the blood. Yeah, swab the blood just to prove that they are claiming that their period is true. That's a high-end issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, for the, okay, for those who don't know, our Kementerian Pendidikan had already banned this kind of practice. Dah tak pernah kena period spot check. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, thank God lah. But still, it's still an issue worthy to be discussed upon lah. Yeah. Okay, what is your thought on the matter? And then, should sekolah or school follow this kind of period spot check even if it's for a religious purpose? Okay, for those who doesn't know why is it for religious purpose, right? Supposedly in Islam, women occurring in period cannot pray. So, there's certain people that try to take advantage of this loophole claiming that they are in period so they cannot pray. Okay. But the main question is, why is it the school are the one that policing this period spot check and everything? Do the school have the hassle to do that? And then, why should they are the one that trying to police this kind of issue? Okay, if I were, honestly speaking, if I hear this for the first time, I would probably want to question myself why do you even have period spot checks in the first place, right? I mean, I'm not dismissing the whole religious aspects of it. If there's a lot you have explained, but I think in the most of the time, I think nobody would ever do a period spot check in general. But then again, it's something which is like very weird to me. Yeah. So, what about you, Miss Rina? What do you think about the whole... I think it's very embarrassing for the whole, right? Actually, especially the lady, especially the person of my 20s. Yeah, it's like, it's like it doesn't exist. It's a violation of privacy, actually. It's trespass also. I would say it's trespass to the body, right? It's like... Hey, we have to kind of slow down there. Can we go to the special arrestment also, right? It could be. Let's go to our other question. Yeah, okay. If you guys have noticed, in 2021, there was a viral story about period spot check at school. If you guys remember. And it's really... There's a certain period spot check that I would say it's dehumanizing and inhumanizing. At school? Yeah, at school. Ah, yeah. What school is it, actually? Usually, it's Abrahasama School. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Let me give an example. Sometimes, during the period spot check, they will be asking the... Some other deorang will be making a bodily check. Body check? Yeah, body check. Which is invasion of privacy. Yeah, I get it. And then second, whether they will ask someone to go to the toilet, swab the blood, right? Yeah. Just to prove that they are claiming that their period is true. That's a hanging issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, for those who doesn't know, our Kementerian Pendidikan has already banned this kind of practice. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, thank God lah. But still, it's still an issue that worthy to be discussed upon lah. Yeah. Okay, what is your thought on the matter? And then, should sekolah or school follow this kind of period spot check even if it's for a religious purpose? Okay, for those who doesn't know what is it for a religious purpose, right? Supposedly, in Islam, women are currently in period cannot pray. So, there's certain people that try to take advantage of this loophole claiming that they are in period so they cannot pray. Okay, but the main question is, why is it the school are the one that policing this period spot check and everything? Do the school have the power to do that? Why should they are the one trying to police this kind of issue? Okay, if I were, honestly speaking, if I hear this for the first time, I would probably want to question myself why do you even have period spot checks in the first place, guys? I mean, I'm not dismissing the whole religious aspects of it. If you have explained, but I think in the most of the time, I think nobody would ever do a period spot check in general. But then again, there's something which is very weird to me. Yeah. So, what about you, Ms. Rina? What do you think about the whole period spot check? I think it's very embarrassing for so many people, actually, especially the lady, especially the person in front of me. It's like dignity being robbed. Yeah, it's like she's not there. It's a violation of privacy, actually. It's a trespass also. I would say it's a trespass to the body. Can you imagine if there's a lock down there? Can it be a special arrestment also, right? It could be. It's so disgusting. I'm so glad that there's no lock down there. But wait, I'm hoping that this one is all girls. What kind of school do you usually go to? Usually, it's going to be boarding school. It doesn't matter whether it's all girls, or whether it's mixed or not. No, no, no. Actually, that's also very dangerous. Okay. Actually, I was shocked to hear that. Because I actually came from Tafiz. So, my own Tafiz is also not like that. Yeah, but what they did was like, they had a book. But I think this is also like policing too. But because it's Tafiz, understandable. But it still doesn't mean that you can police someone if they say they're on a period and then you want to monitor. Yeah, yeah. Why should you be the one that monitor? Yeah, I know that you are trying to make sure that they pray and everything, right? Yeah, and they don't lie. But that's the thing. I would say that the relationship between God and also individuals supposed to be personal things and everything. And yeah, you can guide them, but you cannot exactly police them. And policing and then doing inhuman things. That is not correct. I mean, for what? Or, I mean, for book at least to keep track, I think it's way, 100% way better than you doing what Hafiz said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's just going to open a lot of traumatic experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that's another guide though. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. If you guys actually watch Twitter during that time, there's a lot of confession coming in. And then there's a lot of people that trouble and everything. Yeah, it's really traumatic. Even I'm the one that hearing, male, hearing about it. Oh my God. Yeah, I would be really surprised of how they're doing this. Like, I thought to this extent or sometimes I feel like really shocked as well. I think it's also kind of really shocking to me when I first hear it in the first place. So, I mean, like, I think if you guys do remember, do you guys remember the case when the OnePlus MP last time in the parliament, they asked, I think they're asking the Minister of Transport back then, Anthony Loke, last time, Menjolok Mata, the air stewardess. That is also one of the issues I've just suddenly sprung up. Menjolok Mata. But Sonia, like, their air stewardess outfits are too revealing. Oh, too revealing. Yeah, yeah. So, he was... So, I think if I'm not mistaken, the past MP was trying to ask Anthony Loke, like, do you think the air stewardess's outfit is way too Menjolok Mata in there? So, I really love what the comeback later on for who Anthony Loke's comeback was. I think that was, like, the most perfect response as to it. Because if you... Maybe for our listeners, you can still remember last time when there was this whole issue, there was this whole conversation going about, like, should we cover all our air stewardess, air stewardess in, like, Mars Airlines Asia as opposed to, like, let's say, for example, our counterparts in, like, Emirates or, for example, our... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, there's, like, a lot of, like, the heat, the... What do you call it? The heat of the conversation was there. I think the crux of this issue, right, it's not on the problem of dress code or anything. For me, personally, I think it's the problem of the behaviour of the men in particular. Yeah, if... Anthony Loke actually gave a great answer. If you didn't... If you feel that it's too menjodoh mata, don't take it off. What is it? It's your problem. What is it? You are the one that... Yeah, true, true. Because if I were to put it in the very... I think most of the problems that you see within the moral policy in general or, like, why you have sexual crimes happening in the first place is because the young lelaki cannot, like, contain this. It's always about the behavioural issues and I feel like there's a lot of things within this moral policy debate and the moral policy conversation. Sometimes just... We tend to macam don't touch a lot. What do you call that? The culture of victim-blaming is always very prevalent and never touch upon, like, the lelaki musti mean. I'm not sure, but I'm not sure if, like, in Malaysia, we are very trained, especially less poised, to be trained into, like, say that don't... macam don't touch girls. Macam, like, don't touch girls in a certain manner. I think, I mean, for the most basics of, like, the... what you call that, a sex education in general of, like, for safety first-gen, there's kind of, like, safety... body safety classes. Usually, we'll say that don't touch other people's body, private parts, without their consent. I think consent is the most important keyword. Yeah. Let's go to our closing question. Okay. What's your proposed solution toward this moral policing problem, especially in women? Why do you propose that solution? Rina, would you like to answer this question? Yeah, I think I would... totally, like, educate people. Like, educate and set everyone... The education is, like, important. Yeah. You need to teach them, like, men, women, semua orang lah. Yeah, education. I would say also that we need to have a cultural reform of what should be acceptable, what should not be acceptable, should be discarded. Because, yeah, when we think about it, moral value of every person differs between individual, right? So, why should you impose your moral value towards others? And why should... The problem would be, and why should you moral policy others and oppress, especially women, with your view and value and everything? I think for this part, I think, for my case, I think legislation really does really little because sometimes it really doesn't reach into a lot of things as well. Because sometimes you cannot moral police everyone's thoughts lah. And that's also really hard as well. And that is really virtually impossible. And also kind of, like, invasion of their privacy as well. But I think the most important part when it comes to, like, how do we put an end to, like, a lot of, like, like, what... Not just about, like, moral policing, but about, like, our judgment towards other people is to always have this idea of, it comes from yourself. Like, if you have to be the one that be the... To be that moral... What do you call that, An? The... Moral anchor. Moral anchor and the moral pillar to not do the things that is against, not... Against your conscience and against your religion, against the gods lah. So, if we took it... If I were to take it in the... In the Bible, I think Jesus said this one particular verse. The law says this... The law says, you have heard it, you have said that if those who commit adultery is already being a sin. But I... Verily I tell you, whoever looks at a woman lustfully, you have already committed adultery in your heart already. So, it's also... It's not just about the physical side of things. It's about your mental side of things. Like, you're... You're controlling your own desires and whatnot. So, it's sometimes... I think in order for us to truly... How do you say? Put to an end to like... How do we discriminate movement just because they don't disagree with you or because they say... And thereby triggering your carnal desires and whatnot. It has to start from yourself usually lah. So, that's why I say... So, I kind of agree with your point. It's like the education. Religious education, I think, is also one thing. Respect everybody else. Give a dignity... A sense of dignity towards oneself and towards others as well. So, yeah. Okay. So, I think... Masa dah mencemburu kita for today. So, yeah. I will conclude our podcast again with a conclusion. We talked about an issue of the... Period poverty, dress code, lifestyle, and also the... The voice of women. And then female autonomy. Periods, volatility and everything. And we decided... We actually like... We think that... Yeah, that's... Succeed moral policing to what women happen. Yeah. It's happened in real life and it should not happen. And we as a society need to take a proactive step. Educate. We need to make a legislation. We need to make a cultural reform to solve this kind of problem. Okay. I think that's all for our podcast. Stay tuned for our... Do you have anything else? Before we end, we would like to also ask Miss Rina about Srikanthi initiative. Where can we find you actually? Where can we find Srikanthi? We are... We are on... Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. I see. So... But we are mostly active on Instagram. Which is called... Under case S-R-I-K-A-N-D-I underscore MY. So that's your Instagram account? Yeah. And then later on 10th June, we will have an open sharing session. So I will be in Srikanthi initiative. Invite everybody to join. So where will be this open session? It will be on TUM. You can RFVP in our Instagram account. I see. Alright. That's great. That's great. So yeah. For any of our listeners that are interested in the issue of female empowerment and also regarding pre-poverty, I would actually implore you to join them. To hear what is the open sharing session. To hear what... Know about this issue. Because if you hear about it and you follow them, this issue is actually supposed to be something that can be considered as a national issue. And supposed to be taken into much more greater care and attention. Okay. Yeah. So this is our first session of broadcast. We will be having another session of broadcast in the near future. Stay tuned to us our near future broadcast. We will talk about moral policing with privacy. Moral policing with filmmaking. And moral policing with mental illness and everything. So do stay tuned. And yeah. Do follow us in our Instagram at perkaraspulo.my And don't forget to like us. Okay. And we would like to thank you to Ms. Rina and to Siyam from Silk and News.