New Recording 9 2 (1)

John is interviewing Parris Carrington, a Harvard chaplain, about the Israel-Palestine conflict. Parris discusses his background as a peace activist and his work at Harvard. He emphasizes the importance of dialogue and negotiation in resolving the conflict and expresses concern for the impact on children. Parris also criticizes the violence and oppression faced by Palestinians and suggests the involvement of religious leaders in promoting peace. He believes that peace may not be achievable in the current state and mentions the negative consequences of Hamas' actions. John appreciates Parris' insights and mentions his desire to hear perspectives from different religious leaders. Hi, this is Parris Carrington. Oh, Parris, yes, so right at the stroke of four o'clock, how punctual is this? Yes, so my name is John and it's very nice to meet you, Parris. It's nice to meet you too. It speaks very highly of you. Thank you, yeah. Thank you for meeting me on such short notice. Yeah, so I'll just tell you a little bit about my the interview and like what I'm expecting and also like after that if you want to do a short little intro of what you do at Harvard. Yeah, that would be great. So for my interview, it's just a 10-minute interview on a pressing topic within the last week. I chose the Israel-Palestine conflict and yeah, I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions from my assignment and just see your input and your perspective because I'm actually, after doing some research on you, I'm very interested to hear what you have to say if you want to introduce yourself. Okay, good. So how do you want to proceed? Just to have a short intro. You say a short intro about your work and what you have done at least with like peace activism and what you do at Harvard. Okay, and how long should this be approximately? I could be short, like one, two, I mean as long as you like. Okay, yeah. Okay, well let me try something and you see if it fits the bill, otherwise we can adjust. Right. Okay, let's see. I am a long time peace activist. I came of age I came of age during the civil rights movement, so I was able to go into the deep south when civil rights workers and local people were being killed and I saw what it was to be brave in the in the face of racism and then after that came Vietnam and I just couldn't see my way clear of accepting a student deferment, which was very elitist and racist because I was in college, so I was deferred while other kids in my high school class who didn't go to college were going to Vietnam and dying. So I dropped out of college, lost my two-S deferment and then was inducted. I refused induction and I spent three years in prison and that was a very formative period of my life, certainly I think one of the most inspirational and spiritual as well and so I tried to stay on that trajectory and taking part in what people have called the burning issues of the day of militarism, racism, and as a Quaker, simplicity. So those are the three triplets that Dr. King referred to. At Harvard, I see the Harvard chaplain's job is twofold. One is pastoral and we do a very good job with that with suicides, for example, a horrific topic, but when there are suicides, we are there within hours just to listen, just to be of service for people who get very stressed out and and who take it very hard. The other part is prophetic and I claim that we should have a role, the Harvard chaplain should have a role in forming the world into which we send students in a world that is almost perpetually at war with so much cruelty and the obscene inequity of resources and where the money goes. So it's been quite a life so far, it's not over yet and I love being with the students and asking them to ask questions of themselves and I offer such advice as spend more time with people who make you laugh, spend more time unplugged and outside and understand that your schooling is one thing but your education is another and sometimes they're not always the same. I agree, I agree. I learned that a lot from working with Alex and just working with spirituality this past year, but to get into my first question, thank you for your intro. I read up on some of you from like some of your stuff but it is good work to see a problem and actually do something about it. It's very inspirational. Yeah, well this morning for example for 15 years the Quakers and Alex is a Quaker, I sat with Alex this morning for the last 15 years on the third Sunday of every month and that's this Sunday, we go to a merchant of death, a defense contractor, a war profiteer, not for a protest or a demonstration but for a meeting for worship which is what Quakers call their church service a meeting for worship and we do this not because we're politicizing our spirituality but taking our spirituality or as Quakers would say our light into a very, very dark place. They design and develop nuclear weapons and they're making obscene profits on the war right now in Gaza as well as Yemen and other places so we think it's important to respond to that with our spirituality and in the process we deepen worship, strengthen community and increase witness in the world where such witness is sorely needed. The world seems a hell bent on destroying itself so yes spirituality in action. You mentioned protests, I mean I'm currently in Spain right now but I've been seeing on the news a lot of protests all over the U.S. pro-Palestine and pro-Israel. I just wanted to ask of your perspective on that and on peaceful protests in general on like these types of issues going around in the world. You're absolutely right. On the campus of Harvard for example there have been many protests on both sides on the steps of Widener Library Memorial Church and all of that. I am all for dialogue and I think that's the beginning of everything and we should try to keep it as civil as possible and work for some sort of negotiation which is what is needed in Gaza as well. It is so so difficult to find the balance between this but I think we can all agree that the violence is mostly impacting the lives of children and can't we just agree on that and cease fire and a safe passage zone and international observation. Yeah I mean absolutely I agree. The violence of children is one of the worst things on this earth. And that's what really sent me to prison was the pictures of Vietnamese children. Oh yeah that's just I can't even imagine. I mean it's literally happening right now. So you mentioned that like your little Quakerism I know from Alex and like my previous job is there a key importance to Quakerism is non-violence and peace and pacifism and through that lens how I know you've a little touched on it but like more specifically how have you been analyzing the news and the media like standpoint of Israel and Palestine? Yeah well it's heartbreaking isn't it? And a lot of people knew this was coming. I mean for 75 years the Palestinians have lived under a series of oppression and violence and it's only a matter of time before people will revolt. They will only take so much and would that it wouldn't have exploded the way that it did with the loss of so many civilian lives in Israel with the rocket attacks and the suicide bombers and the invasion but this is to be expected. I mean when the Nazis were bombing England the English didn't roll over and acquiesce and it's actually one of the more noble human traits is that you can't keep people down indefinitely. So this is this was going to happen. You can't squeeze and squeeze and squeeze millions of people into what's what's been called by all accounts the world's largest open-air prison. People will rebel and the more you try to repress it the less it's going to work. So I think what's needed is a definite ceasefire under international united nations observation and control with safe passages out and then to ask the Israelis to limit civilian casualties which is impossible to do because of the geography of Gaza and how things are set up. So again it's we're going back to dialogue and negotiations negotiating settlements but here we have to bring in all sorts of other complicity other agents of complicity and certainly the United States congress is one of them. I agree yeah and the arms are the the arms manufacturers are making a killing literally with obscene profits for all the weaponry. So my other idea is why doesn't the pope get together with the Dalai Lama and go to Gaza? You know they wouldn't get in but they could try to get in and would focus the world's attention on arguably two of the best known faith leaders to say stop the killing stop the killing talk to each other. Yeah but Israel's going to have to make concessions you with the whole settler thing the way that they've been usurping land and bulldozing olive trees and forcing Palestinians into the least desirable sections of land. All that's going to have to stop with reparations and some justice for the Palestinians and most of the world would agree that the way that Israel has been treating the Palestinians with the imprisonment with the checkpoints with the cutting off of electricity and fuel and water that's a horror and it's only a matter of time before people will rebel. Yeah yeah I mean with all this in mind and with peace in mind do you think that there is a chance at peace and in with the current state of Israel and Palestine for there to be dialogue? Not for at least another generation. I think what Hamas has done horribly is ruined all prospects for peace for at least a generation. The Israelis are not going to forget this and I think you know the Israelis will just ignore the pleas from the rest of the world but everybody keeps on using the word imminent the imminent land invasion and once they kind of get into the buildings and going through tunnels it's going to be chaos chaos and more and more death and murder. Yeah thank you I think that helps all that I need for my assignment but I have loved hearing your input and it really does put in perspective like I don't know I've been wanting to hear from different religious leaders and people I mean I'm not having access to them over here but if I was on campus I mean that was the type of dialogue I'd be having with Buddhist chaplains with Muslim chaplains with Sikh chaplains just to hear their perspective on this conflict and what they think needs to be done because I do think it's a I hate to put it into the perspective of a religious war but I think that with religion in perspective I think that that could hopefully put into perspective what needs to be done from different perspectives and different viewpoints on other religions. Yeah right you see this to my idea that the Pope and the Dalai Lama the Pope is Catholic of course and the Dalai Lama is Buddhist neither of them are Jewish or Muslim so you know it's not as though they're going to be favoring their own faith tradition but rather as Gandhi said the pursuit of truth where and what what common ground do we have we should be oriented to love and to life to love and to life and surely we can find some common ground there but it's going to have to be stopping the settlements and giving a fair shake to the people of Gaza and the West Bank. But Paris this is great and I hope I've helped if you have any follow-up questions please be back in touch. I do I will when I do thank you thank you so much. Okay Paris when I see Alex I'll say that his assessment of you was absolutely right on and I enjoyed talking to you. Okay I enjoyed talking to you too thank you have a good rest of your day.