COMM 396 Track 2

The podcast discusses the recent cap on study permits for international students in Canada. The cap aims to reduce the number of international students coming to the country by 35% and is meant to target unethical practices by private colleges. The cap has raised concerns for prospective students and may affect their plans and affordability. It may also impact Canada's reputation as a welcoming destination for international students. The policy is seen as unfair by some, especially those who intended to study at private universities. However, it is meant to address issues of exploitation and ensure quality education for international students. Welcome to the Group 1 podcast channel and thank you for choosing our podcast among many channels out there. If this is your first time listening to our podcast, my name is Mike and I am the main host of this channel. A little bit about me, I'm a third year student at UBC and I'm graduating next year. Today we have three amazing people who are joining us to discuss a very controversial topic, the study permit cap on international students in Canada. And this cap has a lot of different opinions on this. So this is Josh, an admissions director at UBC. Everyone thanks for having me. Welcome to the show. And Melissa, a prospective international student who is looking to apply for a university in Canada. Hi. And last but not least, Prasoon, he is currently an international undergrad student at UBC and he's graduating next year. Welcome, Prasoon. Hi, everyone. So just to give everyone an overview of this cap, in 2023, Canada established a new cap on the number of study permits will be issued to incoming international students in 2024. And this cap aims to reduce 35% of international students coming to the country. And in addition to that, the IRCC also announced a new criteria for the postgraduate work permit program. Starting from September 2024, which is this year, international students in programs under private colleges won't qualify for a postgraduate work permit. So why did the government implement this cap on international students? That's a very big question that I want to ask everyone here. Let's start with Josh. Josh, you are a very experienced professional in this field. So just to look at it from the government's perspective first, Mark Miller, the Minister of Immigration, strongly highlights that good actors in the space, like public universities and private universities who are not predatorily recruiting international students, those institutions should not really be affected by this cap. But the cap's goal is to not punish those good actors, it's to punish those bad actors. And talking about bad actors, these are the fake colleges, those diploma mills, who have been accused of exploiting international students in these private post-secondary institutions, misleading them, and recruiters making dubious claims about jobs and residency, and allegedly even issuing fake documents for visa applications. Okay, thank you Josh for clarifying the point that this cap is aimed to reduce the... to prevent private institutions from using international students as a means to generate more revenue. So Melissa, what do you think? Well, this cap on international students has actually crushed my dreams of studying abroad. I was born and raised in Hong Kong, and there was recently the permanent residence pathway for Hong Kong residents offered by IRCC, the government of Canada. In 2020, China imposed a national security law for Hong Kong, which criminalizes terrorism and also collusion with foreign forces, but they are very vaguely defined, which has restricted a lot of freedom and caused a lot of sorrow, public concern. Therefore, in response to these concerns, the government of Canada has put in a number of measures. There are two streams for Hong Kong residents to come to apply for a permanent residence. The first stream, stream A, is Canada graduates, in which this policy has greatly affected. I have always dreamed of studying abroad, especially in Canada. I've always wanted to visit the CN Tower, I've always admired the weather, the economy. But these are just service-level wishes. I came to Canada because of... I'm not just coming to Canada to study. I'm also pursuing a life goal and finding a new place to live. In Hong Kong, for private housing, we would... For public housing, we would have to wait for 5.8 years to get to one of the single room public housing. And for private housing, it would take 23.2 years for a local resident to buy a home even without any spending of its income. No food, no entertainment, nothing. I am looking for private universities in Canada because they are more teaching-intensive and also they are more career-oriented. Therefore, I think this international student cap is totally unfair and has hindered my way to apply for the permanent residency in Canada. Well, Melissa, I am very sorry to hear that this is affecting your life and your dream negatively. And I want to hear from Prasoon, what do you think, why do you think this cap was implemented around this time? Personally, I think the cap was implemented because the private institutions all over Canada were making money out of these international students coming in. Because they used to charge, they used to give them deals, unofficial deals that, okay, if you come for one year, you have to pay, for example, you have to pay around $23,000 a year and get a diploma and a degree, and you will be eligible for work for me. So I think that led to an issue of growth of unskilled labor in Canada's job market and hence the job market struggled badly. But if you look closely, it was the market of unskilled labor who was struggling. But for graduates like me, who is graduating from public universities like the University of British Columbia, the University of Toronto, they still have a lot of opportunities in the job market because you also have to look at the limits of economics, that you're coming out of a really big recession. And the job market is picking up and it's going to pick up quickly. And now the gap has, the gap is coming into effect. I was reading an article and I came across a number that the gap aims to decrease the international student service by 35% for 2024, which is a dramatic reduction, but I think this decision also seems driven by our need to manage sustainability and ensure quality of education and resources for international students. But on the other hand, I also think this could hamper Canada's reputation as a welcoming global destination for international students, as you have seen for the last 20-30 years. Just because of Canada's easier laws and regulations, immigrants were able to come and had a lot more growth and development as compared to other working countries. To be honest, from my perspective as a Canadian citizen, I wasn't surprised when this gap came along. The reason is because if you guys look at big cities like Toronto or Vancouver or Ottawa, there's been a massive number of international students coming to private colleges and they were treated like a mean for these institutions to make money. You know, I live in Richmond and I've been walking around the area and there's a lot of random no-name colleges there that they put international students in. Everyone who lives in the area knows that, but we don't really know where they come from or what are they doing there. So I think this policy is somehow helpful to reduce these unethical issues as well as reducing the housing crisis and unemployment rate. But at the same time, coming from a background of an immigrant's family, I think that this is also unfair. If I were in my parents' position many years ago when they first came to Canada and they have a very big language barrier, this would be so unfair for them when they have sacrificed everything to come to this country and now they're kind of stuck. But let's just move on and talk about fairness. Do you think that this policy is fair for international students who are spending tons of money on their education in Canada? Josh? Firstly, we need to look at the policy itself. The policy will affect individual provinces and territories differently as the cap is weighted by population, which will obviously result in more significant decreases in provinces where the international student population has seen the most unsustainable growth. So these provinces such as D.C. and Ontario will definitely have the greatest effect. And on the topic of fairness, the cap comes at a very inconvenient time for these international students as fall applications have been due very recently and it may have affected a lot of their plans and means of affording education here. I also agree with Prasoon that it will put Canada in a more negative light and it may make Canadian universities less desirable due to new policies such as students being required to have a Guaranteed Investment Certificate, GIC, of more than $20,000 as a prerequisite for proof to show that international students can cover their living expenses here. Some statistics just show the plurality of foreign students coming into Canada. About 40% have come from India and with China coming in second at 12%, according to some data from 2022. So these students are very likely to be increasingly worried about their future study and work plans and will definitely increase competition within international student applications to be eligible for those postgraduate work permits. Hold on. Sorry, allow me to jump in for a bit. So Prasoon, you're studying in UBC, a public university, correct? That's right. So I have a question for Josh. So just that I, as an international student, I came to Canada a few years later and my intended university is a private university such as UCW, University of Canada West. So just that these two factors have made me discriminated and disqualified from being an international student in Canada. Is this a very unfair policy towards international students? Just that I'm a few years late and I do not intend to apply for a public university. So we talk about fairness for international students applying for private colleges, right? Yeah. Okay. Well, at least from the government's perspective, this policy is meant to target those bad actors. It's meant to target those private colleges like our host mentioned are just there to feed off those international students who don't know any better and to just get, collect their money and exploit their, I guess, lack of information and desperateness to come to Canada. So I think if you're, as long as you're applying to reputable universities, as long as you're making genuine enrollment applications, you shouldn't really see too big of an effect. At least as long as you have that genuine intention and desire to study in Canada. I don't think you have to worry too much at this point. I would like to add on to that, Melissa, and I agree with Josh that if you're coming to public universities like UCW and I think it just gives you a better strength on your future jobs and like a security on your future. I would say that because you are getting a degree from a reputable university, which is regulated by the government. So when you're also talking about private universities, I think the government should try to regulate these money-making businesses as to, they should demand proper verification from the incoming students as to if their results, if the things they require to be granted are true or not. So I would recommend that the government of Canada follows that or even like emphasize in this policy. Yeah, Melissa, I really understand what you're talking about and to be honest, I think that I agree with Josh that you shouldn't be worried too much right now because even if you are attending private colleges, while this cap is aimed to reduce the number of students coming to Canada and especially targeting those no-name private colleges and schools like UCWL that you're planning to go, students do get that study permit. It might be a little bit more competitive. The only impact on those private colleges is that you won't get a postgraduate work permit and be able to stay in Canada. But that is totally fine because if you come here, you do well and you're kind of like connected to a lot of people here, you might be able to transfer to those public schools like Douglas or BCIT or UBC, a lot of public schools that they offer a transfer path for students to come. So just don't think that this cap would really like shut your future. You still have a lot of options, but it's just that it's more competitive and I think that if it's more competitive, it's actually good for us in a way that it would motivate us to work harder. And yeah, so that's my advice for you. That's a really valid point. Before coming, I didn't really notice the no-name college or like the empty colleges problem. So I guess those are the ones that the government are targeting. But yeah, I really hope that I will get to Canada in a few years, hopefully. Yeah, so now let's just talk about one last thing because I know that this policy aims to reduce the competitiveness and increase employment rates in Canada. That is like another thing that the Canadian government was looking at when they implement this policy besides punishing those bad actors. But do you think that would this benefit the economy in the long run? For example, me from the perspective of a domestic student, this policy might be a little bit advantageous for me as I'm graduating next year. And it seems like there will be less competition. But for the economy, would this be healthy in the long run, especially for the quality of job applicants? Josh, what do you think? Well, I'd like to just bring another perspective as well. Isaac Garcia-Sizem is an Executive Director of International Student Enrollment at the Toronto Metropolitan University. His perspective is that this cap will definitely bring financial risks for all these institutions in Canada, which may result in a potential layoff, program closures, and fewer services for students. So in that perspective, the quality of service and education could be seen to fall for certain institutions. And especially in Ontario, the problem is compounded by the fact that at least 10 universities are projected to run deficits this year. And as a result of the provincial tuition freeze, and because of also decreased funding from operating grants. I definitely agree with you, Josh. I think the policy could have mixed effects. You know, on the other hand, it might alleviate some energy pressure on the job and housing market. But on the other hand, it could also limit the inflow of international talent. And it could also impact sectors that rely on skills and perspectives that international students bring. I think the changes to work permit eligibility could particularly also affect sectors facing shortages in the job market. For example, I was coming, I was reading this news from Canada, from the Canada website, that this particular change aims to streamline the post-graduate work permit program, ensuring that graduates from Canadian institutions are well prepared for the Canadian job market. But I think, however, it might limit opportunities for students enrolled in programs under these partnerships, affecting their ability to gain Canadian experience. Okay, thank you, everyone, for your input. It was very nice to have everyone here. And just to wrap up on this podcast, at the end of the day, Canada is still a well-known country that has an open policy for international students coming. And through everyone's point of view, I think that we could view this policy as a punishment to those bad actors who are trying to make more money from the disadvantaged group of students who are not very knowledgeable about the education and the schools here. And thank you so much. I hope everyone has a good day. Thank you. Bye-bye. Okay, I think that's it. I like...